Official 2007 MLB Season Thread

[fotografica]

Nope.

He's not playing tonight. Count on 3 strikeouts from WMP though.

Yeah,just heard the lineup on EEI..

[steamboat26]

Still waiting for the Sox collapse Yankee's fans have been predicting since April :p
We've cut your lead to 8 games, and we own the best second half winning pct of any team in the MLB for the past 7 years.
It's a slow, drawn out collapse :D

[zioxide]

Donnelly is out for the rest of the season and most of next season.

He's going to have Tommy John surgery on Friday.

[fotografica]

and we own the best second half winning pct of any team in the MLB for the past 7 years.


And what has that got you?? :p

Brendan Donnely to undergo Tommy John surgery..

[Sobe]

Brian Roberts > Josh Beckett

[Sobe]

(Brian Roberts > Josh Beckett) x 2

:D:D

[MacNut]

Every Yankee starter with a home run but Arod and Jeter. Abreu, Matsui 2, Cano, Cabrera, Posada, Damon, Duncan,
8 home runs ties a Yankees all time record in a game.

[Teh Don Ditty]

The 8 HRs are a new franchise record.

[steamboat26]

No, they tied the record set in 1939, against the Philadelphia Athletics. At least according to this (http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/gameday_recap.jsp?ymd=20070731&content_id=2121474&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy)

Yankees are 7 games out of the AL East, and 3 out of the Wildcard :)

[Teh Don Ditty]

No, they tied the record set in 1939, against the Philadelphia Athletics. At least according to this (http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/gameday_recap.jsp?ymd=20070731&content_id=2121474&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy)

Yankees are 7 games out of the AL East, and 3 out of the Wildcard :)

That's what I get for going by what ESPN says. Twunts.

[MacNut]

Michael Kay said it tied a record.

[steamboat26]

Phil Hughes is starting Saturday :)
I'm liking our rotation more and more :cool:

[MacNut]

So the Mets suck, Tom Glavine is still at 299 wins after the pen blows the lead.

[steamboat26]

So the Mets suck, Tom Glavine is still at 299 wins after the pen blows the lead.

So out of the 3 records that could've been broken (tied for Bonds), no a one was actually broken/tied?
I was most shocked that A-rod didn't get a homer, he has hit Contreras well historically, and everyone except him and Jeter didn't hit a homer. :(

[MacNut]

Bonds could break the whole thing in one night if he hits enough home runs. A-Rod is getting his stroke back its just getting it far enough to go over the wall. Glavine, well ya.:rolleyes:

[MacNut]

Shelly Duncan with 5 home runs.:)

[furcalchick]

So the Mets suck, Tom Glavine is still at 299 wins after the pen blows the lead.

:)

more good news, we're creaming the lastros again.

[Sobe]

Shelly Duncan with 5 home runs.:)

5 home runs in one game? wowow

[MacNut]

5 home runs in one game? wowowNo 5 on the season, he's only been in the majors for like 3 weeks.

[Sobe]

No 5 on the season, he's only been in the majors for like 3 weeks.

I know, just having some fun with you.

[MacNut]

I know, just having some fun with you.Well the way the Yankees have been attacking the White Sox 5 in a game is not so far fetched.:cool:

I hate the dude from NESN, his voice annoys me. Freaking paperboy. Oh now the stupid dating show is on.

[fotografica]

I hate the dude from NESN, his voice annoys me. Freaking paperboy. Oh now the stupid dating show is on.

Worry about your rotation down the stretch..Never mind the freeking dating show :p

[MacNut]

2.5 back in the Wild Card.:cool:
I would be more worried about where you are going to pitch Gagne.:p

[fotografica]

Okie/Gagne..Setup for Papelbon..What's the friggin mystery with everybody here???????????? Gagne came here knowing he wasn't going to be the closer. :)

[MacNut]

What about Okie, I see no need for Gagne. Sounds more like Theo spending.

[fotografica]

Donnelly is done for the season, Timlin is Hurt....Again. Now you have a solid Lefty in Okajima and a solid Righty in Gagne coming out of the pen to set up for Papelbon. Its going to be pretty much lights out when we get into the 7th inning now. :)

[Sobe]

Gagne knew he wasn't going to close in Boston and he went there anyway...he'll be fine nailing down the 8th.

And anyone who says a pitcher can't use a devastating changeup to close out games just needs to go check out Hoffman.

In fact, going from Gagne's changeups to Papelbon's fastball is not something I would enjoy experiencing...at all.

And Timlin is available if needed.

[MacNut]

ESPN is really milking this record, they are showing like every Giants game this week. Who really cares.

[WildCowboy]

I feel like this pic could use some captioning...

81163

[MacNut]

"What steroids, sorry I can't quite hear you."

[Sun Baked]

You know something is wrong in the NL West when the D-backs are in front, the Rockies are still in the hunt and the Giants are the only one with a losing record.

[Sobe]

Ahem!

It already exists, Hasn't been visited in a while tho. Barry Bonds (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=185278)

[Martin C]

The Yankees won again. Five homers this time.

We're 7 back of Boston in the A.L. East and 2 games back in the Wild Card.

[fotografica]

Nice comeback win for the Sox..The adventures of Windmill Willie Mo continue. But man is it painful watching Trachsel pitch..He must add an hour to each game he pitches..

[MacNut]

Baseball history lesson:
For the first time in MLB history both teams have scored 8 runs or more in a single inning.
The second inning took an hour to play.
White Sox 8 Yankees 8

[zioxide]

What about Okie, I see no need for Gagne. Sounds more like Theo spending.

Someone's jealous.

[MacNut]

Someone's jealous.Its not worth giving away young talent just for 2 months.:cool:

[fotografica]

Its not worth giving away young talent just for 2 months.:cool:

We still have plenty of young pitching prospects in the farm system.

Give Gabbard a full year and his ERA will probably be sitting around 5.00.

But only time will tell.....Right now our starters only have to give us 6 strong and then the door should get shut.

[MacNut]

Give Gabbard a full year and his ERA will probably be sitting around 5.00.Is that what you are telling yourself to feel better after Gagne hurts himself.:p

[fotografica]

Is that what you are telling yourself to feel better after Gagne hurts himself.:p

Nahhh..People were up in arms when we traded Pavano for Pedro..How'd that work out? :p

[barr08]

Nahhh..People were up in arms when we traded Pavano for Pedro..How'd that work out? :p

I miss Pedro :(

[MacNut]

I miss Pedro :(So do the Mets.:p

[djbahdow01]

I miss Pedro :(

We would either way, he's been hurt. looks as if the Sox did the right thing in letting him go. Then again you never know.

I'm happy with the team we got right now. SP's looking good for the rest of the year especially with Schill coming back.

Should be a good run, especially with the Yanks pushing a little now. Its going to be a fun last couple of months.

[zioxide]

So do the Mets.:p

lol

too bad we don't still have pedro though.

imagine Beckett, Pedro, Schilling, Matsuzaka, Lester, Oki, Paps, and Gagne on the same team :o


btw, Sharapova > Bart Simpson

[barr08]

lol

too bad we don't still have pedro though.

imagine Beckett, Pedro, Schilling, Matsuzaka, Lester, Oki, Paps, and Gagne on the same team :o

Imagine Pierce, Garnett and Allen on the same team. Oh wait...

I know its off topic, but damn.

[zioxide]

Imagine Pierce, Garnett and Allen on the same team. Oh wait...

I know its off topic, but damn.

Maybe we can top the 2 Boston teams with a championship from 04 and make it 3 this year :o

too bad the Bruins still suck.

[fotografica]

I miss Pedro :(

I miss the Pedro of 99..Would have rather kept Lowe to be honest.

Looking forward to seeing how Schilling does on Sunday..

[zioxide]

oshit... TIME FOR GAGNE :D

Sox lead 7-3 going into the 9th.

[barr08]

oshit... TIME FOR GAGNE :D

Sox lead 7-3 going into the 9th.

Got his first K against Millar! Go Gagne!

Edit: Second K against Tejada, he could get a 1-2-3 his first appearance for the Sox!

Edit: Crap, I jinxed it...

[zioxide]

Got his first K against Millar! Go Gagne!

lol tejada sucks.

game over, sox win 7-4

[barr08]

Done! Gagne 1 ER, 2 K

Not too bad, coulda done without the run.

[fotografica]

Nice win..Good to see the bats come alive..Nice first one for Gagne.

[fotografica]

Clemens today vs. White Sox
1 1/3 inning
8 runs
Booed off the mound by the Bronx faithful


Little different response than when the deal was announced..

I'm betting Susan Walman wasn't as excited as when Roger was in George's box :D

Glad you guys got him...

[MacNut]

HAHA Waldmen isn't it.....I hate listening to her on the radio.

[zioxide]

Clemens today vs. White Sox
1 1/3 inning
8 runs
Booed off the mound by the Bronx faithful


Little different response than when the deal was announced..

I'm betting Susan Walman wasn't as excited as when Roger was in George's box :D

Glad you guys got him...

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA

[barr08]

Clemens today vs. White Sox
1 1/3 inning
8 runs
Booed off the mound by the Bronx faithful


Little different response than when the deal was announced..

I'm betting Susan Walman wasn't as excited as when Roger was in George's box :D

Glad you guys got him...


Everything you said in that post made me a little happier.

[Sobe]

11-9 now...couple innings to go too.

[Counterfit]

2.5 back in the Wild Card.:cool:
I would be more worried about where you are going to pitch Gagne.:p

Phil Hughes is starting Saturday :)
I'm liking our rotation more and more :cool:

Too bad your bullpen still sucks (aside from Rivera). 16 saves (last) in 31 opportunities (tied with the Giants and Twins for 27th, only the Cardinals are lower). Meanwhile, the Red Sox have only blown 4 saves.

Staff-wide ERA: NYY 4.32 (15) RSox 3.73 (2) Padres 3.54 (1)
Shutouts: NYY 3 (t-25) RSox 9 (t-2) Padres 14 (1)
Complete games: NYY 1 (t-21) ESox 4 (t-7) Blue Jays 7 (1)
ER (rank inverse, 1st is worst): NYY 457 (16) RSox 396 (29) D-Rays 619 (1) Padres 381 (30)
HR (inverse): NYY 97 (t-22) RSox 92 (25) D-Rays 136 (1) Padres 73 (30)
Walks (still inverse): NYY 375 (8) RSox 316 (25) Marlins 464 (1) Indians 278 (30)
K (not inverse anymore): NYY 611 (27) RSox 743 (6) Dodgers 795 (1)
Hits (inverse): NYY 975 (17) RSox 899 (27) D-Rays 1117 (1) Cubs 859 (30)

Heck, the only pitching stats that the Yankees rank better than the Red Sox in are IP (Assuming lower is better, which I guess it is, NYY 952.0 RSox 955.2) and HBP (NYY 38 RSox 45).


Oh, and only one Yankees starter is above .500 (Wang, 12-5) and one is right on it (Pettite 7-7).

Bonus: Sox win 7-4 thanks to a 4-run 7th. Gagne gave up a single and a double for one run in the 9th.



lol tejada sucks.

Were you saying that when he smacked one over the wall last night? ;)

[steamboat26]

When Hughes and Wang can go into the 8th, we don't need to worry about our crappy bullpen, we just bring in Mo :cool:
And speaking of crappy bullpens, i HATE Kyle Farnsworth :mad:
2 ER in the 8th. Can we just cut him, he doesn't even deserve to go to the minors like Igawa, just send him back to hell :D

[cycocelica]

look at the BoSox fans pour in.

[MacNut]

look at the BoSox fans pour in.I think the bandwagon is full.:p

[Sobe]

I don't care how badly Kyle Farnsworth pitches, he will always have a special place in my heart for when he charged home plate after hitting a batter, executed a text book form tackle on the batter, then proceeded to beat the crap out of him.

It might have been against Sean Casey of the Reds back when Farnsworth pitched for the Cubs.

Wish I could find a YouTube vid of that.

[fotografica]

look at the BoSox fans pour in.

Been here all season long guy :rolleyes: ..No piling on here..

[swiftaw]

Can someone explain the Scott Proctor trade to me? Unless the Yankees assumed they would be acquiring another reliever from somewhere (Gagne?) before the deadline, it seems like a somewhat foolish move.

[MacNut]

The Yankees were not gonna trade Cabrera or the young pitchers for Gagne. As for Proctor, I don't know why they made that trade.

[swiftaw]

I don't care how badly Kyle Farnsworth pitches, he will always have a special place in my heart for when he charged home plate after hitting a batter, executed a text book form tackle on the batter, then proceeded to beat the crap out of him.

It might have been against Sean Casey of the Reds back when Farnsworth pitched for the Cubs.

Wish I could find a YouTube vid of that.

It was Paul Wilson of the Reds. The video is here: http://www.mlb.com/news/gameday_recap.jsp?ymd=20030619&content_id=382934&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

Unfortunately it is in .rm format

[steamboat26]

The Yankees justified it that their backup infielders weren't good enough (read: they don't like Miguel Cairo), and they needed more power from 2nd strings. Although it's pretty useless when few of our relievers can keep us in a game :(

[Kwyjibo]

It was Paul Wilson of the Reds. The video is here: http://www.mlb.com/news/gameday_recap.jsp?ymd=20030619&content_id=382934&vkey=recap&fext=.jsp&c_id=cin

Unfortunately it is in .rm format

In defense of farnsworth he was probably drunk ...

Also he was a tough guy who throws really hard. You would never see him be afraid to do much of anything. That being said glad he's no longer wearing cubbie blue.

[steamboat26]

A-Rod jacked HR number 500 off Kyle Davies in the 1st :D

[furcalchick]

A-Rod jacked HR number 500 off Kyle Davies in the 1st :D

davies sucks. glad we dumped him.

[cycocelica]

Boston is 0 for 9 in Seattle. Good news for both my teams

[steamboat26]

Yankees win 16-8. Hughes doesn't do as well as i had hoped, but it was his first game back in the majors.

[Sobe]

Yankees win 16-8. Hughes doesn't do as well as i had hoped, but it was his first game back in the majors.

4.2 IP, 7 H, 6 ER, 2 BB, 5K, 1 HR...yeah not gonna get it done.

Hopefully it was rust, I've been carrying him on my fantasy team's DL for months now!

[steamboat26]

4.2 IP, 7 H, 6 ER, 2 BB, 5K, 1 HR...yeah not gonna get it done.

Hopefully it was rust, I've been carrying him on my fantasy team's DL for months now!

I'm really sure it was rust, during his rehab starts he went like 12 innings without an earned run. He's just adjusting to the majors again.

[Sobe]

I'm really sure it was rust, during his rehab starts he went like 12 innings without an earned run. He's just adjusting to the majors again.

What leaves me encouraged is that he only walked 2.

[decksnap]

The Yankees are really putting some runs on the board these days. If only they had a pitching staff...

Can't win in the playoffs without pitching.

[yg17]

So, Mr. Juicer just tied the record. Damn. I was hoping his slump would continue to the end of the season :D

[steamboat26]

Bummer, i was hoping he would give up and retire :D

[yg17]

We're going to need a big ol one of these:

*

[zioxide]

**** Bonds*

Good for A-Rod though. I hope he breaks Bonds* record in a few years.

[Sobe]

heh gotta love the moderation standards on this thread.

Trashing bonds about steroids = acceptable

Supporting him = posts get moved.

Priceless.

[Teh Don Ditty]

heh gotta love the moderation standards on this thread.

Trashing bonds about steroids = acceptable

Supporting him = posts get moved.

Priceless.

Honestly, do you think the mods are going to pick and choose which posts to keep and which ones they weren't? They picked up everything from that day and moved it. Deal with it.

[MacNut]

Im not even worried about Bonds anymore because in a few years A-Rod will be the true home run king.:cool:

[Sobe]

Honestly, do you think the mods are going to pick and choose which posts to keep and which ones they weren't? They picked up everything from that day and moved it. Deal with it.

I don't really care what they do, but I will certainly point out when the standards are so obviously subjective.

[Sobe]

Im not even worried about Bonds anymore because in a few years A-Rod will be the true home run king.:cool:

Interesting but where's your evidence that he is clean?

[Sayhey]

We're going to need a big ol one of these:

*

No, just a basic understanding of baseball. Barry will hold the record for career homeruns with his next homerun, but understanding what that means takes an understanding of baseball through many eras. Bonds' feat is great, but does it mean he is a better homerun hitter than Ruth, Mays, or Williams? He maybe, but hitting 756 doesn't prove it. It is really impossible to compare these guys with anyone other than their contemporaries. Bonds is the best of his era, and he maintained it over a long enough career to beat out Aaron for the career homerun record. Who is the best homerun hitter of all time is a much, much more complicated subject and "*s" of any size aren't helpful in understanding that fact.

Im not even worried about Bonds anymore because in a few years A-Rod will be the true home run king.:cool:
Don't count your records before they are broken, MacNut. Most people would have said the same thing about Griffey not too long ago. It's a long way to 755 and much more to where the record may be when Bonds retires. Having said all that, congratulations and good luck to A-Rod. I just hope he isn't playing for the Yankees if he breaks it.

[Sobe]

The amazing thing to me about Bonds is not his ability to hit home runs, it's his ability to take a walk.

Just consider:

in 13766 career plate appearances (AB + BB) Hank Aaron walked 1402 times. That's a rate of 9.81 plate appearances per walk.

In 12303 career plate appearances, Barry Bonds has walked 2536 times. That's a rate of 4.81 plate appearances per walk.

If you take out Bonds's intentional walks (679) he still has more total walks (1857) than Hank Aaron did (1402) even including Aaron's intentional walks (293).

Noone in major league history has more walks.

We often are left portrayals of Barry Bonds as some sort of Faustian figure hell bent on destroying the home run records of Ruth, Maris, McGwire, and Aaron, but surely if that were his prime motivator, he would swing at more pitches and take fewer walks, thus giving him a better chance to hit one out.

For those who have not done so, you should really watch him.

Last night when he tied Aaron at 755 was text book Bonds.

He hit a homerun and walked 3 times.

He swung at two pitches. One was a foul ball, the other was his 755th home run.

I don't care if the guy comes up to the plate with banana bag hooked up to an IV in his arm and a pharmacy on his back, that is just amazing to me.

This year, Bonds already has 110 walks. The next closest is Todd Helton with 83.

Just amazing.

[MacNut]

Having said all that, congratulations and good luck to A-Rod. I just hope he isn't playing for the Yankees if he breaks it.I hope he does do it in NY, its about time the record comes back home. SF has had it long enough. Only 3 yankees have hit 500 in the pinstripes, Ruth Mantle and A-Rod. Only 2 have done it at Yankee Stadium, Ruth and A-Rod. It is about time the record comes back where it was born.:cool:

[Counterfit]

Manny's got 12 to go until 500. That'll make 3 new 500 HR hitters just this season, plus a new 600-er, and the *.

[Sayhey]

I hope he does do it in NY, its about time the record comes back home. SF has had it long enough. Only 3 yankees have hit 500 in the pinstripes, Ruth Mantle and A-Rod. Only 2 have done it at Yankee Stadium, Ruth and A-Rod. It is about time the record comes back where it was born.:cool:

???

The career homerun record hasn't been held - still jointly held with Aaron - by a San Francisco player for 48 hours yet, so "long enough" just doesn't make much sense. And, MacNut, the career homerun record (http://www.baseball-reference.com/leaders/HR_progress.shtml) wasn't born in New York. Ruth held it a very long time, but baseball existed before Ruth put on pinstripes.

btw, Aaron is going to still have the record for most homeruns with one club. No one comes close. Just for fun here are the team leaders:

Braves - Aaron, 733
Yankees - Ruth, 659
Giants - Mays, 646
Twins/Senators - Killebrew, 559
Phillies - Schimdt, 548
Cubs - Sosa, 545
Red Sox - Williams, 521
Cardinals - Musial, 475
Pirates - Stargell, 475
Astros - Bagwell, 449
White Sox - Thomas, 448
Orioles - Ripkin, Jr., 431
Tigers - Kaline, 399
Mariners - Griffey, 398
Reds - Bench, 389
Dodgers - Snider, 389
Rangers - Gonzalez, 372
A's - McGwire, 363
Blue Jays - Delgado, 336
Indians - Thome, 334
Royals - Brett, 317
Angels - Salmon, 299
Rockies - Helton, 295
Mets - Strawberry, 252
Brewers - Yount, 251
Nationals/Expos - Guerrero, 234
Diamondbacks - Gonzalez, 224
Padres - Colbert, 163
Marlins - Lowell, 143
Devil Rays - Huff, 128

Notice only Helton is currently building on his team record. It's also instructive to notice how many team records are held by players who played in the last twenty years.

[zioxide]

Saw this on ESPN.com

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/5311/bondsdj7.png

[Sayhey]

A few observations for the Bonds haters on this board. I find it interesting that the Giants, who are unfortunately a last place team, are playing to soldout crowds every night. Not just in San Francisco, but wherever they go. I also notice that whenever Barry Bonds comes to the plate that cameras are going off all around the ballparks by people who seem interested in catching the event of his breaking Aaron's record for their own personal historical moment in time. As a Giant fan I also find it amusing when opposing team's fans boo when Bonds is walked intentionally - it is almost as if they are hoping he will hit a homerun against their team! Lastly, I found it particular fun to watch San Diego fans stand and cheer when Bonds hit #755. Now, when Bonds comes home and hits 756 he can know that there are many, many baseball fans throughout the country cheering him on. I know I will.

[aloofman]

Saw this on ESPN.com

http://img507.imageshack.us/img507/5311/bondsdj7.png

That's lame. There's not a Bonds hater in the world who wouldn't sell the ball if he caught it.

[zioxide]

That's lame. There's not a Bonds hater in the world who wouldn't sell the ball if he caught it.

True.

I'd put a huge asterisk on the ball and then sell it.

[MacNut]

The wild card race is heating up. Detroit has fallen out of first in the central and the Yankees are only .5 back.

[djbahdow01]

The wild card race is heating up. Detroit has fallen out of first in the central and the Yankees are only .5 back.

Well look at the creampuffs the yankees have been playing. Wait till they hit the speed bump coming up.

[Teh Don Ditty]

Well look at the creampuffs the yankees have been playing. Wait till they hit the speed bump coming up.

Right, like your Red Sox didn't play the same teams the week before. :rolleyes:

[MacNut]

Well look at the creampuffs the yankees have been playing. Wait till they hit the speed bump coming up.That still doesn't explain why the Tigers lost 5 in a row.:rolleyes:

[fotografica]

Pleased with the Sox over the weekend.Seattle's been a house of horror for us lately.Was nice taking two of three.Lots of two out runs yesterday..We'll see how Schilling does tonite in Anaheim...
Don't know what's with Detroit.They're coming up lame lately.

[djbahdow01]

Pleased with the Sox over the weekend.Seattle's been a house of horror for us lately.Was nice taking two of three.Lots of two out runs yesterday..We'll see how Schilling does tonite in Anaheim...
Don't know what's with Detroit.They're coming up lame lately.

We will see, its good to see schill back. Although in the 9-2 win last nite, the Sox still left 13 on base. So they are starting to hit the ball a little bit more. Just got to keep it up.

[Counterfit]

As a Giant fan I also find it amusing when opposing team's fans boo when Bonds is walked intentionally - it is almost as if they are hoping he will hit a homerun against their team!

They want him to strike out or get drilled in the knee.

[MacNut]

Ya I don't quite think they want him to beat them.:rolleyes: I think the majority of the country wishes he would just retire.

[MacNut]

The Major League Baseball umpires union said Monday that it is refusing to cooperate with a request for background checks from commissioner Bud Selig's office, calling the initiative a "knee-jerk, misguided witch hunt" in response to the NBA betting scandal involving referee Tim Donaghy.

The umpires are willing to consider submitting to background checks, but only if MLB comes to the bargaining table and negotiates the provisions in "good faith," said Lamell McMorris, a spokesman for the World Umpires Association.
http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2963275....and in other news, the Red Sox lose.:p

[Sayhey]

They want him to strike out or get drilled in the knee.

If that were the case then why would they would applaud when he does hit a homerun? No, other than a few crazies who really would like to see a player hurt, I think most fans want to see their team beat the best. In this instance, that means they want to see the pitchers on their favorite team compete against Bonds and win. When they do, and Barry hits a homerun, most fans respect the effort of both players. Just as they respect the effort of the pitcher who strikes Barry out or who makes him hit a weak ground ball. I know I respect the competition.

Don't get me wrong. I know, and any knowledgeable fan knows, that there are times Barry should be walked, but most of us also know that what goes on in walking Bonds so many times is just crazy.

[fotografica]

....and in other news, the Red Sox lose.:p

Yep,it's standing room only on the Tobin Bridge this morning..The pink hats are lined up ten deep :p

[fotografica]

As far as the Bond's situation,it can and will be debated for years.I don't mind discussing it,as long as it doesn't turn into some pissing contest,bitch fest. That being said,I'll offer up my take....
It seems like a tale of two eras in baseball. The late 50s, 60s and early 70s were the golden days of baseball,IMO.The AL had Mantle, Yaz, Killebrew, Kaline, Cash, Colavito, Oliva, Carew and so on.Pitchers? Oh, just some hackers named Koufax, Drysdale, Gibson, Seaver, Marichal, McDowell, Lolich, Tiant, Palmer.Do you realize that in one year--1969 or 1970 I think--the entire 4 man rotation for the Orioles were 20 game winners? Palmer, McNally, Dobson and Cuellar. Now you don't have four 20 game winners in the whole league--maybe not in both leagues.Remember Denny McLain--the last 30 game winner any of us will ever see. You might see another .400 hitter, someone might hit 90 HRs, but no pitcher today gets enough starts to win 30. Especially with the five man rotation,strict/rigid pitch counts etc. Not to mention the fact that years ago,both pitchers and hitters,didn't have the likes of Tampa Bay,Florida, Montreal/Wash etc to pad their average and lower their ERA.
I guess what I'm getting at,is how would today's sluggers have done in that era?Guys like Bonds,A rod,Manny,Pujols etc...
Like I said,seems like a tale of two eras in the game...

[MacNut]

I think that old era would have no problem pitching to Bonds and taking their chances. They had better stuff tho to challenge Bonds. I also think that generation would not tolerate steroids like the players do today. More then half of todays players congratulated Bonds, I don't think you would see the old timers giving well wishes.

As for fans applauding Bonds, I think they are applauding the record itself and could care less about Bonds. I still think the majority of the country can't stand the guy.

For example, I can't stand the Red Sox but I did congratulate the fans on wining the World Series. That doesn't mean that I wanted them to win or that I like the team. Just because the fans are acknowledging Bonds does not mean they think he is a good guy.

Where is Tonya Harding when you need her.:p

[Sayhey]

I think that old era would have no problem pitching to Bonds and taking their chances. They had better stuff tho to challenge Bonds. I also think that generation would not tolerate sterioids like the players do today. More then half of todays players congratulated Bonds, I don't think you would see the old timers giving well wishes.

As for fans applauding Bonds, I think they are applauding the record itself and could care less about Bonds. I still think the majority of the country can't stand the guy.
That generation tolerated the use of "greenies." A performance enhancing drug that has had an undeniable effect on baseball for at least the last 50 years.

As to congratulations to Barry from players (like A-Rod - and among other athletes we have seen messeges sent by Jordan, Gretzky, and last night Muhammad Ali,) some of the old timers would and some wouldn't. I don't think Bob Gibson would congratulate an opponent if you held a gun to his head, but most others recognize and respect the talent of opposing players. Remember, in Barry's case, he knows a lot of the players from the 60s and 70s from hanging out with his dad and Mays.

As far as the Bond's situation,it can and will be debated for years.I don't mind discussing it,as long as it doesn't turn into some pissing contest,bitch fest. That being said,I'll offer up my take....
It seems like a tale of two eras in baseball. The late 50s, 60s and early 70s were the golden days of baseball,IMO.The AL had Mantle, Yaz, Killebrew, Kaline, Cash, Colavito, Oliva, Carew and so on.Pitchers? Oh, just some hackers named Koufax, Drysdale, Gibson, Seaver, Marichal, McDowell, Lolich, Tiant, Palmer.Do you realize that in one year--1969 or 1970 I think--the entire 4 man rotation for the Orioles were 20 game winners? Palmer, McNally, Dobson and Cuellar. Now you don't have four 20 game winners in the whole league--maybe not in both leagues.Remember Denny McLain--the last 30 game winner any of us will ever see. You might see another .400 hitter, someone might hit 90 HRs, but no pitcher today gets enough starts to win 30. Especially with the five man rotation,strict/rigid pitch counts etc. Not to mention the fact that years ago,both pitchers and hitters,didn't have the likes of Tampa Bay,Florida, Montreal/Wash etc to pad their average and lower their ERA.
I guess what I'm getting at,is how would today's sluggers have done in that era?Guys like Bonds,A rod,Manny,Pujols etc...
Like I said,seems like a tale of two eras in the game...

I grew to love baseball in the '60s, but nostalgia for the great players of the day shouldn't make us forget things. Baseball had its expansions in the '60s as well - in, 61, 62 and in 69, and it had an effect on the game. Remember that the great homerun chase in '61 took place in the environment of two new clubs in the American League - along with the extension of the season to 162 games.

I think the great players of any era would have fared just fine in your "golden era." Today's players are undoubtedly in better physical shape than the average player of that era. They also face a different type of pitching, with a much greater reliance on bullpens than in any previous time. So, while you rightly point to all the great pitchers of the '60s, I would point out the explosion of great closers and talented pens from the 80s to the present day. The real point, I think, is that there are so many things that have changed in baseball from era to era that it isn't fair to compare players of different times. Expansions, different ballparks, rule changes, and changes in style of play make all such comparisons shaky at best.

[Sayhey]

For example, I can't stand the Red Sox but I did congratulate the fans on wining the World Series. That doesn't mean that I wanted them to win or that I like the team. Just because the fans are acknowledging Bonds does not mean they think he is a good guy.

I think you're missing my point. To many fans, it appears, that they respect the achievement of Bonds' tying, and most likely, breaking of Aaron's record. That's all. I didn't like Pete Rose as a human being, as a player, or as an opponent, but I respected the achievement of his breaking Cobb's hit record. That's what I think is going on with opposing fans. Whether fans like Barry or think he is a "good guy" doesn't enter into it.

[aloofman]

As far as the Bond's situation,it can and will be debated for years.I don't mind discussing it,as long as it doesn't turn into some pissing contest,bitch fest. That being said,I'll offer up my take....
It seems like a tale of two eras in baseball. The late 50s, 60s and early 70s were the golden days of baseball,IMO.The AL had Mantle, Yaz, Killebrew, Kaline, Cash, Colavito, Oliva, Carew and so on.Pitchers? Oh, just some hackers named Koufax, Drysdale, Gibson, Seaver, Marichal, McDowell, Lolich, Tiant, Palmer.Do you realize that in one year--1969 or 1970 I think--the entire 4 man rotation for the Orioles were 20 game winners? Palmer, McNally, Dobson and Cuellar. Now you don't have four 20 game winners in the whole league--maybe not in both leagues.Remember Denny McLain--the last 30 game winner any of us will ever see. You might see another .400 hitter, someone might hit 90 HRs, but no pitcher today gets enough starts to win 30. Especially with the five man rotation,strict/rigid pitch counts etc. Not to mention the fact that years ago,both pitchers and hitters,didn't have the likes of Tampa Bay,Florida, Montreal/Wash etc to pad their average and lower their ERA.
I guess what I'm getting at,is how would today's sluggers have done in that era?Guys like Bonds,A rod,Manny,Pujols etc...
Like I said,seems like a tale of two eras in the game...

Reading that post made my head hurt. Some spaces between sentences please!

The fact that there were four-man rotations then doesn't mean that pitchers were better then than they are now. It just means that starters were expected to pitch more innings. We celebrate guys like Koufax and Gibson and Marichal for pitching on little rest and being workhorses, but there are a slew of forgotten, mediocre pitchers that didn't last long in those days, just like there are now. (Personally I think there are a lot of good reasons to go back to a four-man rotation, but it's not up to me, is it?) The main reason is that pitchers are paid a lot more now and teams don't want to risk burning out an expensive arm when there are cheaper bullpen arms available.

[aloofman]

I think you're missing my point. To many fans, it appears, that they respect the achievement of Bonds' tying, and most likely, breaking of Aaron's record. That's all. I didn't like Pete Rose as a human being, as a player, or as an opponent, but I respected the achievement of his breaking Cobb's hit record. That's what I think is going on with opposing fans. Whether fans like Barry or think he is a "good guy" doesn't enter into it.

I still think the suspicions about steroids are the main factor here. If it's a "good guy" issue, it's probably only in comparison to Hank Aaron. Rose was (and is) a jerk-and-a-half, but he was saintly compared to Ty Cobb. Cobb may be the most repulsive human being in the history of major-league baseball. It's not like a lot of people had a personal bias in favor of Cobb when Rose broke his record.

Does anyone else find it baffling that Rickey Henderson breaking the all-time runs scored record didn't get more attention? That was incredible. Sure, it's not 755, but it's one of the most important records in the sport and it didn't get as much attention as A-Rod got for hitting his 500th. Cobb was atop that list for decades, far longer than I've been alive or my father has. And now Rickey's name is there instead. I thought he should have gotten more praise at the time.



I grew to love baseball in the '60s, but nostalgia for the great players of the day shouldn't make us forget things. Baseball had its expansions in the '60s as well - in, 61, 62 and in 69, and it had an effect on the game. Remember that the great homerun chase in '61 took place in the environment of two new clubs in the American League - along with the extension of the season to 162 games.

Expansion had a much bigger effect than a lot of people realize. Roger Maris hit a disproportionate number of home runs against the expansion Los Angeles Angels that year. (I thought it was something like half a dozen, but can't be sure.) The Angels played that first year in a bandbox minor-league stadium that was also used for those early home run derby TV shows because of its small size and proximity to Hollywood. Without help from the Angels little ballpark, Maris doesn't hit 61 homers in 1961.


I think the great players of any era would have fared just fine in your "golden era." Today's players are undoubtedly in better physical shape than the average player of that era. They also face a different type of pitching, with a much greater reliance on bullpens than in any previous time. So, while you rightly point to all the great pitchers of the '60s, I would point out the explosion of great closers and talented pens from the 80s to the present day. The real point, I think, is that there are so many things that have changed in baseball from era to era that it isn't fair to compare players of different times. Expansions, different ballparks, rule changes, and changes in style of play make all such comparisons shaky at best.

I completely agree. Several old-timers have predicted that no one will ever hit .400 again because it's so much harder to hit against all of the relief specialists now. The 1960s were a pitchers' era, even without the freak year of 1968.

Also, there were only a handful of Latin players competing for major-league jobs back then compared to now. To me that's at least as big a boost in talent depth as the end of the black color barrier.

I think that old era would have no problem pitching to Bonds and taking their chances. They had better stuff tho to challenge Bonds. I also think that generation would not tolerate steroids like the players do today. More then half of todays players congratulated Bonds, I don't think you would see the old timers giving well wishes.


There was an article recently (espn.com, maybe?) about how many current HOFers are withholding judgment until there's proof one way or the other. They've been divided over whether Rose should be inducted too. Don't assume that the old-timers think today's players are all spoiled brats.

[fotografica]

The real point, I think, is that there are so many things that have changed in baseball from era to era that it isn't fair to compare players of different times. Expansions, different ballparks, rule changes, and changes in style of play make all such comparisons shaky at best.

Actually,I was making a comparison in the context of the record...
Aaron,setting the record in the age of bigger ball parks,less teams,four man rotations,deader ball,smaller bat,smaller physiques...
Or
Bonds breaking it in the era of smaller parks,more teams,five man rotations, livelier ball,training/muscles....

I realize they're two different eras.Just looking at the record itself...

[fotografica]

That's what I think is going on with opposing fans. Whether fans like Barry or think he is a "good guy" doesn't enter into it.

I'm guessing that if Bond's tied,and/or subsequently broke the record, in say Boston,NY,Chicago,Philly the fan reaction would have been slightly different. Don't think we would have seen a standing O in any of those cities ;)..Yeah,his public perception,whether it's right or wrong,does play into it...

[MacNut]

I'm guessing that if Bond's tied,and/or subsequently broke the record, in say Boston,NY,Chicago,Philly the fan reaction would have been slightly different. Don't think we would have seen a standing O in any of those cities ;)..Yeah,his public perception,whether it's right or wrong,does play into it...I wish the record was broken in NY or Boston as then you would see the true fans reaction. What we will see in SF is a sugar coated unrealistic fan boi reaction.

[aloofman]

I wish the record was broken in NY or Boston as then you would see the true fans reaction. What we will see in SF is a sugar coated unrealistic fan boi reaction.

Because there aren't any "true fans" outside Boston and NY? Get over yourself.

[MacNut]

Because there aren't any "true fans" outside Boston and NY? Get over yourself.Im saying that SF isn't a true picture of how the country feels about Bonds. I do think east coast fans are harder then west coast.

Joba Chamberlain was called up today for the Yankees, and Giambi is back.

[megfilmworks]

We had a lot of fun booing BB at Dodger stadium last week. Of course there may not be a greater hate in baseball than the history of these clubs, dating back to the east coast years and later moving to the west. Anyone remember the Marichal / Roseboro bat clubbing incident? So he gets doubly booed here.
He's a Giant and a roid droid.

[steamboat26]

Yankees win, solid effort by Clemens (a lot better than his last start :D)
Chamberlain looked a lot better than most guys we have in the bullpen

[MacNut]

Don't forget the brawl that almost broke out. A-Rod gets hit, benches clear, Towers says something to A-Rod, benches clear again. Clemans gets ejected for throwing in.Alex Rodriguez got hit, and Roger Clemens made sure it didn't go unanswered.
Rodriguez was hit on his knee by a pitch from Toronto's Josh Towers during the New York Yankees' 9-2 victory over the Blue Jays on Tuesday night, and Clemens plunked Alex Rios in the middle of his back.
Benches and bullpens emptied twice after Rodriguez was hit in the third inning. Clemens and Yankees manager Joe Torre were ejected by plate umpire Angel Hernandez after Rios was hit by the first pitch of the seventh. Clemens and Torre likely will be suspended.
On a night that top prospect Joba Chamberlain made his major league debut and Jason Giambi returned after more than two months on the disabled list, the Yankees won their fifth straight and improved to 20-7 since the All-Star break.
As it is on most days, the focus was on A-Rod.
Several Blue Jays were angry at Rodriguez after he distracted Howie Clark on a key popup late in a game on May 30, yelling at the infielder as A-Rod approached third base. Jesse Litsch threw behind Rodriguez's legs in A-Rod's first at-bat in Monday's series opener and Towers hit the Yankees slugger on the knee during his second at-bat Tuesday.
Rodriguez immediately took a few steps toward the mound before he was cut off by Hernandez. The Yankees and Blue Jays spilled out onto the field. Toronto's Matt Stairs had to be restrained by New York's Andy Phillips as he tried to go after A-Rod at first base.
After the field cleared and as the umpires huddled to discuss the situation, Towers and Rodriguez exchanged words and walked toward each other. Rodriguez said, "You talking to me? You talking to me?" and was restrained by first base coach Tony Pena as both benches and bullpens came onto the field again.

[yg17]

and he did it....he hit 756. But Hank Aaron still holds the record in my book.

[MacNut]

and he did it....he stole 756. But Hank Aaron still holds the record in my book.Fixed that for you.
I didn't see it I don't care to see it, as far as I am concerned the record is tarnished forever. The fact that espn is making this a huge event is kinda sad in itself.

Mr Bonds has broken the record now he can fade away into the sunset and never be heard from again.

I hope Mr Selig is happy for his part in ruining the game as well. This is just as much his fault as it is Bonds.

[achie25]

Bonds=*

[MacNut]

And now for the big rant.

As a long time baseball fan this day was one that I as well as many were not waiting for, the saying that cheaters never win I guess can't be used tonight as Barry Bonds cheated and is laughing his way into the history books. So does that mean that cheating is ok if you can beat the greatest record in all of sport. I hope Mr Bonds is proud of his achievement tonight as I for one am very disgusted at the moment. The great things that Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron have done for the game really are meaningless when a person like Bonds in one swing can destroy all of that history.

[Sayhey]

Congratulations, Barry Bonds! A truly historic moment in Baseball, made all the sweeter by the class act of Aaron's message to Bonds. I'm glad to have seen it happen.

[MacNut]

Moving on to happier news, the Yankees are only 5 back of the Red Sox.:):cool:

[Phat_Pat]

Fixed that for you.
I didn't see it I don't care to see it, as far as I am concerned the record is tarnished forever. The fact that espn is making this a huge event is kinda sad in itself.

Mr Bonds has broken the record now he can fade away into the sunset and never be heard from again.

I hope Mr Selig is happy for his part in ruining the game as well. This is just as much his fault as it is Bonds.

As i agree with you that Bond's doesn't deserve it, i have to say the energy in that stadium was probably one of the greatest experiences in baseball i've ever been a part of.

While i am a giants fan i'm not a bonds fan. hopefully now we won't have to hear much about him. (and maybe we'll win some games? :o)

but nonetheless congrats on the achievement, even if it is a bit.... eh.

[Sobe]

And now for the big rant.

As a long time baseball fan this day was one that I as well as many were not waiting for, the saying that cheaters never win I guess can't be used tonight as Barry Bonds cheated and is laughing his way into the history books. So does that mean that cheating is ok if you can beat the greatest record in all of sport. I hope Mr Bonds is proud of his achievement tonight as I for one am very disgusted at the moment. The great things that Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron have done for the game really are meaningless when a person like Bonds in one swing can destroy all of that history.

In your followup post, I assume you will be providing the proof that he cheated, or is conjecture enough for conviction in the court of public opinion?

Silly question, of course it is. Ask Michael Vick.

And why is it that we're ok with Lance Armstrong but not Barry Bonds?

Are we really that shallow or is it just racism and because he's a jerk?

[asxtb]

The last couple of years I really didn't want to see him break the record. I thought he was a jerk and didn't deserve it. But now that he has broken it, I'm kinda happy for him. Regardless of how he got there it is still quite a feat. And at the same time, I still have a little comfort knowing that he still has over 100 to hit to become the true 'Homerun King'.

Congratulations Barry on being Number 3!

[aloofman]

The great things that Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron have done for the game really are meaningless when a person like Bonds in one swing can destroy all of that history.

Exaggerate much?

[steamboat26]

I've made my opinion clear in the past, I think he cheated and doesn't deserve the record.

BTW, what happened to Chien Ming Wang? Out after 2 2/3 innings? Very uncharacteristic. It was a blowout, 15-4
Cano is really the only guy who did his part. We gotta play consistent and strong, especially since we have a lot of tough series coming up.

[Sobe]

The last couple of years I really didn't want to see him break the record. I thought he was a jerk and didn't deserve it. But now that he has broken it, I'm kinda happy for him. Regardless of how he got there it is still quite a feat. And at the same time, I still have a little comfort knowing that he still has over 100 to hit to become the true 'Homerun King'.

Congratulations Barry on being Number 3!

From wiki:

On three occasions, foreign players have challenged his single-season home run record of 55 (Americans Randy Bass in 1985, 54 HRs, and Karl "Tuffy" Rhodes in 2001, 55 HRs; and Venezuelan Alex Cabrera in 2002, 55 HRs).

That's all you really need to know about Japanese home run records.

[furcalchick]

yes, that rick ankiel. the one that kept throwing wild pitches during the playoffs. well, he's coming back as an outfielder tonight. i saw him take some swings during spring training, and he's not half bad.

[Kwyjibo]

yes, that rick ankiel. the one that kept throwing wild pitches during the playoffs. well, he's coming back as an outfielder tonight. i saw him take some swings during spring training, and he's not half bad.

He had like 32 HR's in the minors this year.

He was a pitcher in high school, that usually means he was the best player on his team by far.

My biggest wonder is if Larussa is managing an extra inning game where he burned through 4 or 5 arms from innings 7-9 and he gets to inning 15 and the choice is ankiel or tomorrow's starter ... who does he choose?

[Sobe]

He had like 32 HR's in the minors this year.

He was a pitcher in high school, that usually means he was the best player on his team by far.

My biggest wonder is if Larussa is managing an extra inning game where he burned through 4 or 5 arms from innings 7-9 and he gets to inning 15 and the choice is ankiel or tomorrow's starter ... who does he choose?

I don't see him going to ankiel even if that situation. The guy really suffered with his pitching problems, I don't think LaRussa would go there even in an emergency.

[MacNut]

Baseball Tonight has become unwatchable, they never stop talking.

[furcalchick]

Baseball Tonight has become unwatchable, they never stop talking.

do they show any highlights on that show anymore? i forget since i never watch anymore. they drove me away with their annoying habit of focusing solely on the northeast teams about 4 years ago.

btw, most of espn sucks now, ath is still good, but not like in it's heyday, pti is great, but has gone down a bit in the last few years. sportscenter, please, hardly watch that.

[MacNut]

Usually its about Barry Bonds, the problem is the crew they have now, Kruk is ok Gammons is smart so he's good to listen too, Phillips sucks. All they do is kiss up and say how great Bonds is. I don't like the new people they have on either. They don't say anything worth while just talk to hear themselves.

[Sayhey]

All they do is kiss up and say how great Bonds is. I don't like the new people they have on either.

??? What channel are you watching? Gammons is the only one who has even bothered to air any of Bonds' side of his story. The rest have consistently led a parade of nonsense of anti-Barry drivel.

Back to current events, the Giants just traded Mark Sweeney to the Dodgers for a player to be named later. I like Sweeney, but I'm amazed the Giants could get anyone for him, especially from the hated Dodgers. Great trade on Sabean's part, and I hope Mark does well in LA - as long as the Dodgers continue to lose.

[fotografica]

Baseball Tonight has become unwatchable, they never stop talking.

Kind of like when Joe Morgan does the Sunday Night game..

Dice K and Bedard tonight in Baltimore..Nice matchup there....

[aloofman]

I like Sweeney, but I'm amazed the Giants could get anyone for him, especially from the hated Dodgers. Great trade on Sabean's part, and I hope Mark does well in LA - as long as the Dodgers continue to lose.

I guess it depends on whether "future considerations" turns out to be "anyone." I'm a little surprised that they would trade with each other, but it's not like a lot of talent was moved. Seems like trading peanuts for peanuts.

[IJ Reilly]

I guess it depends on whether "future considerations" turns out to be "anyone." I'm a little surprised that they would trade with each other, but it's not like a lot of talent was moved. Seems like trading peanuts for peanuts.

More like Cracker Jacks, for a peanut to be named later.

The Dodgers needed a left-handed bat on the bench after trading Betemit. Of course that's not all they need right now. A few breaks might help. Can a team trade for that? Favorable umpiring for a fate to be named later.

[MacNut]

More like Cracker Jacks, for a peanut to be named later.

The Dodgers needed a left-handed bat on the bench after trading Betemit. Of course that's not all they need right now. A few breaks might help. Can a team trade for that? Favorable umpiring for a fate to be named later.How is Proctor doing in LA?

[aloofman]

More like Cracker Jacks, for a peanut to be named later.

The Dodgers needed a left-handed bat on the bench after trading Betemit. Of course that's not all they need right now. A few breaks might help. Can a team trade for that? Favorable umpiring for a fate to be named later.

Yeah, three starters out indefinitely and they forgot how to hit. Hard to win that way.

The funniest trade ever is still the guy (don't recall his name) who was traded for himself. He was traded for a player to be named later. A couple months later, after not impressing anyone, he was named as the player and they sent him back to his former team.

How is Proctor doing in LA?

The good news is that he's pitching well so far. The bad news is that they've needed him a lot because other pitchers are struggling.

[MacNut]

The good news is that he's pitching well so far. The bad news is that they've needed him a lot because other pitchers are struggling.That was the problem in NY, he was over used and burned out.

[IJ Reilly]

Yeah, three starters out indefinitely and they forgot how to hit. Hard to win that way.

At least they broke the scoreless drought yesterday and managed a win. I haven't been watching many games lately (I have a strong aversion to train wrecks) but I'll bet Grady has been drumming his fingers on the dugout rail a lot lately.

[Sayhey]

I guess it depends on whether "future considerations" turns out to be "anyone." I'm a little surprised that they would trade with each other, but it's not like a lot of talent was moved. Seems like trading peanuts for peanuts.

Yeah, it was 1985 when they last traded with each other - or at least that what I just read - don't know who was in that trade. You guys will like Sweeney. He's in heaven with Mota to coach him. A great 37 year old pinch hitter is a luxury we don't need in our disaster of a season. Hope whoever is coming back north isn't totally worthless.

[aloofman]

Yeah, it was 1985 when they last traded with each other - or at least that what I just read - don't know who was in that trade. You guys will like Sweeney. He's in heaven with Mota to coach him. A great 37 year old pinch hitter is a luxury we don't need in our disaster of a season. Hope whoever is coming back north isn't totally worthless.

Apparently it was Alex Trevino for Candy Maldonado in 1985. Clearly this move was a turning point for both teams. :p

[MacNut]

File this under stupid baseball rules:

Roger Clemans was suspended 5 games for retaliation after A-Rod was thrown at 2 times. While no Toronto players were given any punishment Clemans was suspended for throwing in. Are pitchers not allowed to protect the plate anymore. More and more hitters crowd the plate and a pitcher has no way to protect the plate anymore.

Any thoughts.

[aloofman]

File this under stupid baseball rules:

Roger Clemans was suspended 5 games for retaliation after A-Rod was thrown at 2 times. While no Toronto players were given any punishment Clemans was suspended for throwing in. Are pitchers not allowed to protect the plate anymore. More and more hitters crowd the plate and a pitcher has no way to protect the plate anymore.

Any thoughts.

Yes.

Clemens is the last pitcher who was still getting away with brushing batters back. (I give Pedro an honorable mention because he's not playing at the moment.) This is maybe the only time when I'm on Clemens' side of an issue. Over the last 25 years, it's gradually become more difficult for pitchers to get away with throwing chin music and now it's to the point where it's somehow illegitimate. I'm not sure when batters became indignant at getting by a pitch, but they didn't use to be.

This is one of several ways in which the advantage has swung way over to the batters in the last few decades. Batters can also erase the entire batter's box with their cleats, almost stand on top of the plate to pull every strike, don't have to worry about the top third of the official strike zone ever being a strike, and still get a free pass to first even if they make no effort to avoid a HBP. It's not that it's unethical, it's just that it's not even in the rules. It's as if all the umpires collectively decided not to enforce the rules that limited batters. And everyone just shrugs it off.

$20 says that somewhere out there, Bob Gibson saw the highlight and called today's players "wusses". And if there is a heaven, then Don Drysdale saw it and said something that got him banished from it.

[MacNut]

The thing I don't like is when the umps warn the benches without giving the other team a chance to retaliate a player getting hit. It is a part of the game that if a batter is hit the opposing pitcher is going to respond. The fact that A-Rod was getting thrown at the whole series and nothing was done about it is what I don't like. Clemans makes one inside pitch that hits a batter and he's tossed.

[Sayhey]

Apparently it was Alex Trevino for Candy Maldonado in 1985. Clearly this move was a turning point for both teams. :p

Hey, if we get another Maldonado back in this trade, I'll be very happy. Candy actually played very well for the Giants for a few years. I'll have you know that after the Giants traded for Maldonado they went from a 100 loss team to winning the division in '87. Must be a cause and effect, don't you think? ;)

[IJ Reilly]

The thing I don't like is when the umps warn the benches without giving the other team a chance to retaliate a player getting hit. It is a part of the game that if a batter is hit the opposing pitcher is going to respond. The fact that A-Rod was getting thrown at the whole series and nothing was done about it is what I don't like. Clemans makes one inside pitch that hits a batter and he's tossed.

Like a lot of officiating in professional sports, it's at least a little arbitrary. Human factors are always in evidence. We've seen players ejected for just looking at an ump. One day a batter "takes one for the team" and is awarded first base. The next day a pitcher is ejected for throwing at a batter. If it made complete sense, it wouldn't be baseball. :)

[aloofman]

Hey, if we get another Maldonado back in this trade, I'll be very happy. Candy actually played very well for the Giants for a few years. I'll have you know that after the Giants traded for Maldonado they went from a 100 loss team to winning the division in '87. Must be a cause and effect, don't you think? ;)

I know exactly what you mean. Getting Mike Davis (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Davis_%28baseball_player%29) before the '88 season? Same kinda thing! :D

[fotografica]

More like Cracker Jacks, for a peanut to be named later.

The Dodgers needed a left-handed bat on the bench after trading Betemit. Of course that's not all they need right now. A few breaks might help. Can a team trade for that? Favorable umpiring for a fate to be named later.

You guys wanna take back JD Drew?Please?Please? :(

[furcalchick]

You guys wanna take back JD Drew?Please?Please? :(

getting sick of dl drew already? i know how you feel. he's the perfect boras agent. greedy and never plays hard...expect that one year he played for us.

[fotografica]

getting sick of dl drew already? i know how you feel. he's the perfect boras agent. greedy and never plays hard...expect that one year he played for us.

Was sick of him by Memorial Day..Thru today 6HR 42 RBI .254 AVG all for $14 mil/year..He's lost the fans and the media..Both are having a field day with him.

[Sun Baked]

Still amazing that the DBacks have risen so far, and still have been outscored this year.

The statisticians compute them as having another losing season so far this year, instead of having caught up to the third place team.

[steamboat26]

Yankees beat the Indians 6-1. Hughes looked sharp today: 6 innings, 6 K, 1 ER. Despite not going as long as i would have liked, Chamberlain came in and shut things down. Yankees are tied with the Mariners for first in the Wild Card, and are 5 games out of the AL East :D

[asxtb]

From wiki:

On three occasions, foreign players have challenged his single-season home run record of 55 (Americans Randy Bass in 1985, 54 HRs, and Karl "Tuffy" Rhodes in 2001, 55 HRs; and Venezuelan Alex Cabrera in 2002, 55 HRs).

That's all you really need to know about Japanese home run records.
And that means what? That Japanese players don't hit as many homeruns during the year but still have the consistency to hit 868? Way to make a worthless quote. And you never addressed number 2.

[MacNut]

Yankees beat the Indians 6-1. Hughes looked sharp today: 6 innings, 6 K, 1 ER. Despite not going as long as i would have liked, Chamberlain came in and shut things down. Yankees are tied with the Mariners for first in the Wild Card, and are 5 games out of the AL East :DWe have our own setup man and he didn't cost anything. Lets see Gagne 3 innings 6 runs 9 hits. Sounds like money well spent.:p Way to close that game out last night.:D

[fotografica]

We have our own setup man and he didn't cost anything. Lets see Gagne 3 innings 6 runs 9 hits. Sounds like money well spent.:p Way to close that game out last night.:D

Still way cheaper than a 45yo,six month mercenary @18 mil pro rated :p

[MacNut]

Still way cheaper than a 45yo,six month mercenary @18 mil pro rated :pAt least Clemans helped us win a few games.:D Nice to see Gagne go the distance last night.

[zioxide]

At least Clemans helped us win a few games.:D Nice to see Gagne go the distance last night.

I think someone can have one bad game. IIRC Clemens went 1.1 innings and gave up like 7 runs a few games ago.

[Sobe]

At least Clemans helped us win a few games.:D Nice to see Gagne go the distance last night.

Gagne was robbed. He may not have been great but JD Drew flat out butchered a ball hit to him and they ended up calling it a double and a couple of rbi.

[fotografica]

At least Clemans helped us win a few games.:D Nice to see Gagne go the distance last night.

Yeah,that's about what,$8 mil a win so far :p...JD Drew simply blew last night. The guy seems to be stuck in park...

[zioxide]

Yeah,that's about what,$8 mil a win so far :p...JD Drew simply blew last night. The guy seems to be stuck in park...

He did well in the game today. About damn time. 3 hits and 2 rbi.

Beckett got his 15th win.. pitched 8 2/3rd gave up 8 hits 2 runs with 8 strikeouts. He just couldn't get that last out though, so they brought in Paps to get the save.

[steamboat26]

Yankees win 11-2. Moose went 7 2/3 innings. A-rod hit HR 38 and 39 :cool:

[megfilmworks]

What is happening to the Dodgers?

[furcalchick]

What is happening to the Dodgers?

choke and gag job, you should be used to it now, since you guys do it every year by this time usually. enjoy fourth place!!!

mutt fans should start worrying too, just 2.5 games back now!!

[Counterfit]

While no Toronto players were given any punishment Clemans was suspended for throwing in.
Er, no (http://boston.redsox.mlb.com/news/press_releases/press_release.jsp?ymd=20070809&content_id=2139694&vkey=pr_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb). Towers, Stairs, and Butterfield were all fined.


Man, I wish players could be taken in a poker game. We could use a new right fielder. And should it be a sign of something that Wind-Mill Peña hasn't been dealt yet?


Also, Harry Chiti.

[yg17]

What is happening to the Dodgers?

Rick Ankiel came back from the minors, that's what happened :D

[fotografica]

He did well in the game today. About damn time. 3 hits and 2 rbi.

Beckett got his 15th win.. pitched 8 2/3rd gave up 8 hits 2 runs with 8 strikeouts. He just couldn't get that last out though, so they brought in Paps to get the save.

One good game every three weeks isn't worth $14 mil/year. Ortiz is obviously hurting.His swings are rough at best..We're still leaving lots of guys on base.

[zioxide]

That's it.

Eric Gagne is ****ing awful. I wonder if we can send him down to like AA.

[Teh Don Ditty]

And then it was back down to 4 games.

[furcalchick]

stupid mutts decide to win today. i wanted that lead down to 1.5 games.

but i want mut blood...and it's going to be first place braves within a week.

[zioxide]

I'm already sick of Gagne. I knew this trade was going to be bad. Ugh. Two of the past 3 games he's blown.

[fotografica]

I know Francona likes to stick with guys until they get it right,he can't on this one...EEI is gonna be on fire tomorrow..Esp the Big Show :D

[zioxide]

I know Francona likes to stick with guys until they get it right,he can't on this one...EEI is gonna be on fire tomorrow..Esp the Big Show :D

Yeah.. this who situation is pissing me off.

Gagne just comes in and takes over Oki's 8th inning. That's such crap. It's almost like Grady Little is managing again.

Gagne should have had to prove he was better than Oki in order to get the 8th inning.


I'm still waiting for MacNut's "4 games :D" post. Surprised it's taken him this long.

[fotografica]

Yeah.. this who situation is pissing me off.

It's almost like Grady Little is managing again.

Cripes man:p!! Let's not even bring up that analogy :eek:

[Teh Don Ditty]

I'm still waiting for MacNut's "4 games :D" post. Surprised it's taken him this long.

I posted that on the previous page. :p

Tough loss for you guys. Big win for the Yanks though. A nice season series sweep.

EDIT: Forgot to mention this....

Bobby Jenks (CWS) broke David Wells record and tied the MLB record (Jim Barr) for retiring the most consecutive batters. (41 straight)

[MacNut]

Oh Baby Oh Baby, Yankees win Red Sox lose, its just 4 games now.:p:D

Sorry I was late I was on the beach today.:cool:

[MacNut]

Is it possible that this might be the closest pennant race in recent memory. In all 6 divisions the biggest lead is 4 games from 1st to 2nd place.

[MacNut]

Phil "Scooter" Rizzuto, who overcame his diminutive size to become a key contributor to numerous New York Yankees championships and followed his playing career with a lengthy and entertaining stint in the team's broadcast booth, died Tuesday. He was 89.

Rizzuto's playing and broadcasting careers were in contrast with each other. As a player, Rizzuto had the reputation for being an alert, heads-up competitor with keen baseball instincts that eventually earned him a place in the Hall of Fame. Behind the microphone, he was at times oblivious to the events on the field, nevertheless his lack of polish as an announcer was ignored by generations of Yankees fans who accepted his eccentricities the way family members do an amusing relative.:(

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070814&content_id=2147920&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy

[Mistershark]

I'm already sick of Gagne. I knew this trade was going to be bad. Ugh. Two of the past 3 games he's blown.

We'll take him off your hands. :rolleyes: (Texas fan)

[furcalchick]

We'll take him off your hands. :rolleyes: (Texas fan)

do you like saltalamacchia? we're loving teixeira.

[Sobe]

Phil "Scooter" Rizzuto, who overcame his diminutive size to become a key contributor to numerous New York Yankees championships and followed his playing career with a lengthy and entertaining stint in the team's broadcast booth, died Tuesday. He was 89.

Rizzuto's playing and broadcasting careers were in contrast with each other. As a player, Rizzuto had the reputation for being an alert, heads-up competitor with keen baseball instincts that eventually earned him a place in the Hall of Fame. Behind the microphone, he was at times oblivious to the events on the field, nevertheless his lack of polish as an announcer was ignored by generations of Yankees fans who accepted his eccentricities the way family members do an amusing relative.:(

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070814&content_id=2147920&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy

=~(

I grew up listening to "The Scooter" and Bill White do Yankee games.

Those Holy Cows are a part of my childhood I will never forget.

God Speed, Scooter.

[Mistershark]

do you like saltalamacchia? we're loving teixeira.

You should have seen his homecoming game. He already has more fans than the whole team... apart from Marlon Byrd.

On Mark Teixeira:
Jon Daniels: worst G.M. in sports.

[Teh Don Ditty]

<Rizzuto>

Tis be a sad day in Yankeeland.

Scooter you will be missed.

[steamboat26]

A sad day today losing Rizzuto :(

And we were shut out by the Orioles 12-0.

[MacNut]

Ok Im trying to find some scooter clips but they are hard to find.

[MacNut]

BRIDGEPORT, Conn. -- Former major league All-Star Jose Offerman was charged with two counts of second-degree assault after hitting the pitcher and catcher with his bat during an independent minor league game.

Offerman posted $10,000 bond and is due in Bridgeport Superior Court on Aug. 23, court officials said Wednesday.

Offerman, playing for the Long Island Ducks in the Atlantic League, homered in the first inning. The next inning, he was hit by a pitch from Bridgeport's Matt Beech and charged the mound with his bat.

"I called [Atlantic League executive director] Joe Klein immediately after the incident and told him what had occurred on the field," Bluefish CEO Mary-Jane Foster told the Connecticut Post. "And I have asked that the Atlantic League suspend Jose Offerman from the league for life."

On Wednesday, the league suspended Offerman indefinitely.
According to the Post, Beech was hit on the hands as he attempted to defend himself, while catcher John Nathans was hit in the back of the head on Offerman's backswing. Police said Beech, a left-hander, sustained a broken right middle finger, and Nathans later suffered from nausea, the newspaper reported. Bridgeport manager Tommy John told ESPN2's "First Take" that Nathans suffered a concussion.

Both players were treated at a hospital and released.

"[Beech] hit him with a cut fastball in the left calf," John said, according to the Post. "And the next thing you know, Offerman's going to the mound with his bat over his head taking swings at Beech. He took at least two, maybe even three [swings]."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2975386

[zioxide]

Nice walk-off win last night by the Sox.

Lester pitched real well in is return to Fenway. :)

[MacNut]

Nice walk-off win last night by the Sox.

Lester pitched real well in is return to Fenway. :)You don't want to talk about todays game.;):p

[Sobe]

bet the yanks will be glad to see the O's leave town...
Bedard: 7.0 ip, 0 ER, 0 R, 2 BB, 4 H, 8 K.

Is there a better pitcher in the majors?

[MacNut]

bet the yanks will be glad to see the O's leave town...
Bedard: 7.0 ip, 0 ER, 0 R, 2 BB, 4 H, 8 K.

Is there a better pitcher in the majors?Shelley Duncan goes deep.

[Sobe]

Baez sucks, Duncan is good.

Ruins a great outing by Bedard.

[Sobe]

4-8

That's the yankees record against the O's this year, Duncan HR or not.

[MacNut]

Jason Giambi escaped punishment from commissioner Bud Selig on Thursday because of the Yankee slugger's charitable work and cooperation with baseball's steroids investigator.

Selig, speaking on the second and final day of an owners meeting, called this an "appropriate decision."

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/news/story?id=2977294

[aloofman]

Phil "Scooter" Rizzuto, who overcame his diminutive size to become a key contributor to numerous New York Yankees championships and followed his playing career with a lengthy and entertaining stint in the team's broadcast booth, died Tuesday. He was 89.

Rizzuto's playing and broadcasting careers were in contrast with each other. As a player, Rizzuto had the reputation for being an alert, heads-up competitor with keen baseball instincts that eventually earned him a place in the Hall of Fame. Behind the microphone, he was at times oblivious to the events on the field, nevertheless his lack of polish as an announcer was ignored by generations of Yankees fans who accepted his eccentricities the way family members do an amusing relative.:(

http://newyork.yankees.mlb.com/news/article.jsp?ymd=20070814&content_id=2147920&vkey=news_nyy&fext=.jsp&c_id=nyy

In my opinion, his longevity in the booth probably warranted the HOF in the broadcasting wing, but in no way did he earn it as a player. Being the weakest hitter on a dynasty shouldn't get you in, and neither should an undeserved MVP award.

I'm not trying to pile on here. By all accounts he was a fine guy and touched a lot of people. Most people wish they could have led such a full life.

[Sobe]

in the past, people actually cared about things like defense and leadership.

btw:

Bedard, who has now pitched 20 consecutive scoreless innings against the Yankees, lowered his ERA to 2.98. After the All-Star break, Bedard is 5-0 with a 1.90 ERA, 0.95 WHIP and 58:16 K:BB ratio in 47.1 innings.

[aloofman]

in the past, people actually cared about things like defense and leadership.



Well, that would open the door for about a hundred other guys to get in too. If he'd played for the Washington Senators instead, no way he gets in.

[swiftaw]

Speaking of Washington, they just traded for Wily Mo Pena

[barr08]

The sox are creaming the angels, but they just left 3 guys on :(

[IJ Reilly]

choke and gag job, you should be used to it now, since you guys do it every year by this time usually. enjoy fourth place!!!

Oh, get off it. Sorry I missed this earlier, but no, they don't "usually" choke. This has happened only one other time in all the decades I've been a Dodger fan. You know, it can happen when you lose three starting pitchers. :rolleyes:

[fotografica]

Speaking of Washington, they just traded for Wily Mo Pena

For cash and the perverbial player to be named later.

[swiftaw]

For cash and the perverbial player to be named later.

Actually, I think the cash is going the other way, that is wily mo + cash for PTBNL

[barr08]

Actually, I think the cash is going the other way, that is wily mo + cash for PTBNL

Yeah, this is true.

[aloofman]

Oh, get off it. Sorry I missed this earlier, but no, they don't "usually" choke. This has happened only one other time in all the decades I've been a Dodger fan. You know, it can happen when you lose three starting pitchers. :rolleyes:

Furcalchick is straying toward New York fans on the Insufferability Index. :p

[Sobe]

Well, that would open the door for about a hundred other guys to get in too. If he'd played for the Washington Senators instead, no way he gets in.

100 other guys?

you mean like Ozzie Smith?

or Luis Aparicio?

or Pee Wee Reese?

Or Brooks Robinson?

Or Bobby Doerr?

Or Johnny Evers?

Or Bill Mazeroski?

There's tons of people who arguably should not be there.

Let's not pick on the Scooter.

[aloofman]

100 other guys?

you mean like Ozzie Smith?

or Luis Aparicio?

or Pee Wee Reese?

Or Brooks Robinson?

Or Bobby Doerr?

Or Johnny Evers?

Or Bill Mazeroski?

There's tons of people who arguably should not be there.

Let's not pick on the Scooter.

You're right, there are tons, and I don't think Evers belongs there either. However, I think that most of those others you listed were better fielders than Rizzuto was. And Aparicio, Reese, and Robinson had better offense. I think Reese is a very marginal HOF-er (and I'm a Dodger fan) and Mazeroski should have been in sooner.

I'm willing to argue about who else should never have gotten in if you are. I'm not trying to pick on Rizzuto.

[IJ Reilly]

Furcalchick is straying toward New York fans on the Insufferability Index. :p

No kidding. It's bad enough watching all those pitching arms get broken and seeing your team fall from first to fourth, without hearing a bunch of baloney about how it happens every year.

I'll be at the game tonight to watch Eric what's-his-name start, flown in from Las Vegas just for the occasion.

[steamboat26]

The sox are creaming the angels

What were you saying about creaming the angels? :p

And Gagne blows another game...

And the Yankees win 6-1, thanks in part to Jason "I took 'roids but didn't get punished" Giambi

[zioxide]

****

SOMEONE SHOOT GAGNE IN THE FACE

WORST ****ING PITCHER EVER

/me breaks ****


At least wily mo strikeout is gone.

[Mistershark]

****

SOMEONE SHOOT GAGNE IN THE FACE

WORST ****ING PITCHER EVER

/me breaks ****


At least wily mo strikeout is gone.

You know, this is the first pitcher Texas has traded that hasn't gotten radically better after the trade. *coughchrisyoungcough*

[fotografica]

****

SOMEONE SHOOT GAGNE IN THE FACE

WORST ****ING PITCHER EVER

/me breaks ****


At least wily mo strikeout is gone.

He keeps blowing games,esp down the stretch,and the fans will run him out of town ala Foulke...Theo's already on the hook for several moves/non moves....

[furcalchick]

And the Yankees win 6-1, thanks in part to Jason "I took 'roids but didn't get punished" Giambi

this is sounding like a merriman situation. yeah, he had a suspension, but his image didn't take a hit with the media.

[MacNut]

What were you saying about creaming the angels? :p

And Gagne blows another game...I was laughing my butt off lastnight watching Gagne blow another one.:p:D

this is sounding like a merriman situation. yeah, he had a suspension, but his image didn't take a hit with the media.Giambi at least admitted it so the media really had no reason to chew him out. Plus the fact that he is a nicer guy then Bonds or Sheff I think everyone is willing to forgive and forget.:cool:

[Sobe]

I'm not into the politics of race really and normally I have no time for it...but it sure seems like race and steroid use are intricately enmeshed when it comes to perception aand forgiveness.

If Roger Clemens stood up tomorrow and said "Yeah I did steroids" I doubt there would be anywhere near the hatred that Bonds has...and Clemens easily mirrors Bonds as the best non position player of this generation.

[Kwyjibo]

I'm not into the politics of race really and normally I have no time for it...but it sure seems like race and steroid use are intricately enmeshed when it comes to perception aand forgiveness.

If Roger Clemens stood up tomorrow and said "Yeah I did steroids" I doubt there would be anywhere near the hatred that Bonds has...and Clemens easily mirrors Bonds as the best non position player of this generation.

I disagree, look at Mark Macguire ... was a first ballot HOF'er and now i think he might be left out due to his comments. he's suffering and he wasn't quite a villan, also white if memory serves. Bonds is a jerk, I think he hates most people that aren't named Barry Bonds.

[Sobe]

I disagree, look at Mark Macguire ... was a first ballot HOF'er and now i think he might be left out due to his comments. he's suffering and he wasn't quite a villan, also white if memory serves. Bonds is a jerk, I think he hates most people that aren't named Barry Bonds.

McGwire suffered at the hands of the sports reporters who left him off their ballot.

Most fans don't have a problem with him even when it was common knowledge he was doing andro.

[Sayhey]

I disagree, look at Mark Macguire ... was a first ballot HOF'er and now i think he might be left out due to his comments. he's suffering and he wasn't quite a villan, also white if memory serves. Bonds is a jerk, I think he hates most people that aren't named Barry Bonds.



Giambi at least admitted it so the media really had no reason to chew him out. Plus the fact that he is a nicer guy then Bonds or Sheff I think everyone is willing to forgive and forget.:cool:

Who is the "nicer guy"? By whose standards and based on what? Giambi is viewed in the press as a nicer guy because he deals with the press in a less confrontational manner, but the question has to be asked why should fans care about how players deal with the media? And secondly, do the players who have a problem with the media have a legitimate basis for their problems? I think they do.

What we see about athletes has become a form of celebrity hunting by "reporters" who want face time on sports channels. I've got to ask whether we should be looking at the standards of Journalism that pass these days in most sports pages. I would submit it has sunk to new lows. Much of what is reported becomes a form of schadenfreude - the enjoyment of the problems of others - and has nothing to do with an attempt to objectively portray the abilities and achievements of athletes. While some would say this is better than the "jock sniffing" style of hero worship of former times, I've got to ask whether we can't demand better.

Now, that doesn't mean Bonds and Sheffield are wonderful human beings, but the perception that, for instance that Bonds "hates most people that aren't named Barry Bonds" is shaped by what reporters choose to report. I could bore you with many stories of how Bonds is loved by SF fans and how he has shown his positive side to fans and teammates. That is never reported. Instead, fans get a constant repetition of the "Bonds is the devil" theme. The unfortunate lesson is that if you want a positive image, a player had better be prepared to kiss some major league media butt.

Into this mess, you add the fact most reporters are white and many of the players they cover are not, and you are bound to have race become a factor. The real question about McGwire, for instance, is why - when everyone knew he was taking a form of steroids banned in other sports and likely knew he was taking others as well - did reporters who now think Bonds should be thrown out of Baseball say nothing as Mark broke Maris' record? I think it is legitimate at least to ask the question whether Bonds and McGwire's race plays into this double standard in the reporting of some of the media? I think it does.

[Silencio]

I disagree, look at Mark Macguire ... was a first ballot HOF'er and now i think he might be left out due to his comments. he's suffering and he wasn't quite a villan, also white if memory serves. Bonds is a jerk, I think he hates most people that aren't named Barry Bonds.

But McGwire was never Mr. Convivial, ever. He looked like he was having such a miserable time during the 1998 run to the home run record, only lightening up his dour countenance a bit after much prodding from Sammy Sosa.

Now Sosa is a prime example of the power of playing the PR game right: he did his whole blow kisses at the crowd and sprint into the outfield with the American flag thing, earning much love and admiration from the average fan. In the clubhouse, however, he was self-centered and egotistical to a point that would make even Bonds blush: the boombox appeared to be a much bigger distraction than the leather recliner.

But I think the whole notion of wanting "lovable" superstars is a bit silly, anyway. I'm paying my money to watch them perform on the field, not to have dinner with them and discuss Fassbinder films or something.

[Sun Baked]

I'm not into the politics of race really and normally I have no time for it...but it sure seems like race and steroid use are intricately enmeshed when it comes to perception aand forgiveness.

If Roger Clemens stood up tomorrow and said "Yeah I did steroids" I doubt there would be anywhere near the hatred that Bonds has...and Clemens easily mirrors Bonds as the best non position player of this generation.

I don't know, it would definitely be a distraction for the team if he is on one.

Sort of fractured the Diamondbacks when Jason Grimsley got into his mess, when they cleaned house afterwards anyone who the fans looked at sideways got traded.

Heck, the team was still gun shy this year about bad press and was called on it by the player's union.

[furcalchick]

we are getting worked by the snakes yet again. 12-1 in the bottom of the seventh, we currently only have one hit via a chipper jones long ball in the first. the pitcher one hitting us, micah owings is having a career night at the plate, 4-4 with 2 homers and six rbi's. for some reason, we can never beat this stupid team, first owned by webb, now this. this is getting stupid now, and i fear our chances of the playoffs are starting to slip.

edit: two hits now, frenchy just hit a solo shot, so it's 12-2. just so stupid that we are relying on the long ball...again.

edit 2: three hits, and you guessed it, another homer, this time andruw goes yard. 12-3.

[swiftaw]

we are getting worked by the snakes yet again. 12-1 in the bottom of the seventh, we currently only have one hit via a chipper jones long ball in the first. the pitcher one hitting us, micah owings is having a career night at the plate, 4-4 with 2 homers and six rbi's. for some reason, we can never beat this stupid team, first owned by webb, now this. this is getting stupid now, and i fear our chances of the playoffs are starting to slip.

edit: two hits now, frenchy just hit a solo shot, so it's 12-2. just so stupid that we are relying on the long ball...again.

3 solo home runs now

[steamboat26]

Went up to Yankee stadium today. Long drive, but worth it.
It was fun to boo Sheffield. He kept getting hits off Clemens (he owns over a .500 career batting average against clemens), but Mo took him down in the top of the ninth.
I saw Abreu's shot off the foul pole and Clemens got his 1000th k as a yankee. :D

[zioxide]

David Ortiz is the ****ing man.

[Sun Baked]

we are getting worked by the snakes yet again. 12-1 in the bottom of the seventh, we currently only have one hit via a chipper jones long ball in the first. the pitcher one hitting us, micah owings is having a career night at the plate, 4-4 with 2 homers and six rbi's. for some reason, we can never beat this stupid team, first owned by webb, now this. this is getting stupid now, and i fear our chances of the playoffs are starting to slip.

Don't worry, you've got the chance at another rookie tomorrow. :p

[fotografica]

Nice win for the Sox last night..Good to see a comeback win for a change. Always fun to see Ortiz win it,esp with a GS..Hopefully the team will build off it..

Diamondbacks are playing great ball....

[steamboat26]

Yankees are 4 games out after today. Lets hope the Devil Rays put up a good fight :D

[Teh Don Ditty]

Yankees are 4 games out after today. Lets hope the Devil Rays put up a good fight :D

Lets not forget that we have to beat the Angels.

fotografica - The D-Backs are pretty much tied for best record in the NL. They are really looking filthy.

The Brewers are folding under the pressure right now. I can't believe that the Cards have made their way back into the picture.

The AL central is tight too, Detroit and Cleveland vying for first. The Twins are 6 out and got some work to do it if they want to get back in it.

The AL west is only a 2 team race between the Angles and Mariners. Should be a photo finish between these two.

NL East I haven't got a clue what's going on here. One day the Braves are oh so close then boom back 5 or 6 games. The Mets and Braves play 6 more times, so this could come down to the wire too

NL West (yes IJ, some love :p) 4 teams, 7 games separating. D-backs playing amazing ball right now. Plenty of time for any of those 4 teams to make a run for it.

[furcalchick]

here are my contenders and pretenders heading into the final stretch runs.

nl
mets, phillies, braves
cubs, brewers, cardinals
dbacks, padres, dodgers, rockies

al
red sox, yankees, blue jays
indians, tigers, twins
angels, mariners

if your team is not on the list, then too bad, your playoff chances are about slim to none.

of the teams on the list, i expect the blue jays, dodgers and rockies to drop off in the next week or so. i personally think the twins need to go on a tear if they want to stay in the race going into the final month.

but once again, the nl continues to be a more leveled league than the al with big gaps between haves and have nots. also note that the cardinals are still below .500 and that i think the nl central winner will not have more than 85 wins. dbacks are playing great ball right now as i said earlier, and the mariners came out of nowhere and are leading the wild card, while oakland and the white sox have disappointed.

enough of my blather, here's my predictions.

nl

east: mets (unfortunately)
central: cardinals (they will win this last day)
west: dbacks (i think they will start to pull away from the others pretty soon)
wild card: padres (phillies will choke, and i honestly don't think the braves have the pitching this year, they clinch with about 4-5 days left)

al

east: red sox (they fend off the yankees barley)
central: tigers (indians are stumbling a bit, will likely go down to final day)
west: angels (solid team, win by 5 games)
wild card: mariners (yankees collapse, miss wc in last weekend)

ws: dbacks vs. angels, dbacks win in 5

any questions?

[Teh Don Ditty]

You predicted the WS but not the Division or LCses? :confused:

[MacNut]

A couple questions, why do you think the Blue Jays are in the race now? I think they were dead a few months ago. I don't see the Mariners being able to fend off the Yankees for the WC. I do think that in the final 6 games between the Yankees and Red Sox that the race will go neck and neck. It is possible that the Red Sox might miss the playoffs if Seattle and NY play well enough.

[furcalchick]

You predicted the WS but not the Division or LCses? :confused:

we start predicting that, i think we get to the point where we have to pinpoint the team's records due to seeding and all that stuff, and it's still a bit early for final records. that's even more random than my ws predictions.

A couple questions, why do you think the Blue Jays are in the race now? I think they were dead a few months ago. I don't see the Mariners being able to fend off the Yankees for the WC. I do think in the final 6 games between the Yankees and Red Sox that the race will go neck and neck. It is possible that the Red Sox might miss the playoffs if Seattle and NY play well enough.

i only put the jays there because of their relative proximity to the wild card (7 games back as of this post). i put all the teams that were within single digits of a playoff spot, as there's still some time left for one of them to go on a tear. but honestly, i don't think the jays are going to do much.

i think personally, seattle will keep up the pace with the yankees and edge them out for the wild card, but i don't know really, don't follow al too much.

[Sobe]

yankees finish up with 3 against the O's at Camden Yards, a team they have had a ton of problems with this year.

And the Yankees' home/away split is god awful.

If I am a yankee fan I am hoping they sew it up before the final series or they could be in trouble.

[Teh Don Ditty]

yankees finish up with 3 against the O's at Camden Yards, a team they have had a ton of problems with this year.

And the Yankees' home/away split is god awful.

If I am a yankee fan I am hoping they sew it up before the final series or they could be in trouble.

Understatements of the year.

[aloofman]

Giambi at least admitted it so the media really had no reason to chew him out. Plus the fact that he is a nicer guy then Bonds or Sheff I think everyone is willing to forgive and forget.:cool:

I disagree. Steroid use got him a huge contract from the Yankees and he hasn't produced enough to warrant it. If anything, Yankee fans should be mad that he swindled them.

McGwire suffered at the hands of the sports reporters who left him off their ballot.


While I agree that there is a racial component to McGwire vs. Bonds, I think a major factor is that McGwire retired before approaching Aaron's record. His HR totals are inflated, but it's not on the top of the list. I think that's what annoys a lot of people. Bonds still strolls to the plate 20 times a week, while McGwire is in seclusion where people aren't reminded of his cheating. Out of sight, out of mind.



ws: dbacks vs. angels, dbacks win in 5

any questions?

The Braves lose two of three to Arizona, so now you think the Diamondbacks are going to win the World Series?

[IJ Reilly]

The Braves lose two of three to Arizona, so now you think the Diamondbacks are going to win the World Series?

So what else do you need to know? Taking nothing away from Arizona, but they still are a young team. Like the Brewers, you have to ask how long they can keep up the pace, how they'd perform in postseason play.

Meanwhile, can the Dodgers claw their way back into contention? This week and next will tell -- a very tough road trip coming up. Great gutsy performance from Brad Penny on Sunday, pitching on only three days rest. To think, he was the guy with cross-hairs on his back at the beginning of the season.

[furcalchick]

The Braves lose two of three to Arizona, so now you think the Diamondbacks are going to win the World Series?

they look really good. they are similar to the 2003 marlins in their team makeup (lots of young guys, not alot of big names), so winning the world series isn't out of the question.

[aloofman]

they look really good. they are similar to the 2003 marlins in their team makeup (lots of young guys, not alot of big names), so winning the world series isn't out of the question.

The look really good NOW, with no playoff pressure in sight. Of course it isn't out of the question. Have you watched the Diamondbacks other than when they've played the Braves? It's just not enough games to be able to tell, even if predictions were useful at this stage of the season.

[MacNut]

The D-backs don't match up to any AL team they would meet in the World Series. They can't compete with the Tigers or Red Sox in pitching, they can't out hit the Yankees or Angels. I don't see them having a chance to be able to keep up.

[IJ Reilly]

No chance at all, huh? Looks we're stuck between extremes of opinion here. The 2007 Arizona team could pull a Marlins. Who's to say they can't? Still, if you were handicapping, it would still have to be called a long-shot. If the Dodgers don't make the playoffs, I'll be rooting for them to surprise everyone.

[aloofman]

The D-backs don't match up to any AL team they would meet in the World Series. They can't compete with the Tigers or Red Sox in pitching, they can't out hit the Yankees or Angels. I don't see them having a chance to be able to keep up.

People said that about the Cardinals last year, right up until they won the World Series. It really doesn't have much to do with matchups based on the regular season, or how hot you are at the end of the season. It's pretty random. On paper, yeah, the AL has the better teams right now, but they did last season too.

[IJ Reilly]

People said that about the Cardinals last year, right up until they won the World Series. It really doesn't have much to do with matchups based on the regular season, or how hot you are at the end of the season. It's pretty random. On paper, yeah, the AL has the better teams right now, but they did last season too.

Last I checked, baseball was still played on a field, not on paper. ;)

[xsedrinam]

Last I checked, baseball was still played on a field, not on paper. ;)
Just 4 games out, playing .483 ball, STL has lost two in a row. They're just pacing themselves for the strong finish, again. :)

[aloofman]

Just 4 games out, playing .483 ball, STL has lost two in a row. They're just pacing themselves for the strong finish, again. :)

Again? Last year it was a weak finish. Lots of ways to win, I guess. :p

[Sobe]

Last I checked, baseball was still played on a field, not on paper. ;)

It's like billy beane said...the playoffs are a crapshoot.

If you get there you got a shot, it's that simple.

[fotografica]

Diamondbacks are a young team.Do they have what it takes to deal with the pressure down the stretch??Will be interesting to see how that race plays out.

The eighth inning at bat of JD Drew yesterday was one of the worst I've ever seen..Six pitches in a row,and the guy doesn't take the bat off his shoulder once?:rolleyes:Not swinging on the 2-2 pitch was pitiful. Theo and Lucchino can spin that one all they want,that was a bust plain and simple.....
This road trip for the Sox is huge..Playing .500 ball isn't going to be enough..

[Sun Baked]

Last I checked, baseball was still played on a field, not on paper. ;)

Which is why the DBacks are on top right now, the statics had them sucking wind at the usual 2nd to last (or was it last) position.

They had been outscored this season ... slightly worse than the Giants so far, but have improved lately.