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Mr. Anderson
May 28, 2003, 09:14 PM
I'm looking at the team ranking right now and wondering something as I see 3 Mac teams in a row - why shouldn't we combine all our teams into one big team and then we'd be 14th or 15th over all?

I think this would be great, don't know if the other teams would be interested, but it might be worth while. Why compete amongst ourselves when together we could really kick some ass!!

I wonder if folding@home would allow us to combine the teams and current stats.....

Anyone else think this is a good idea?

D



MrMacMan
May 28, 2003, 09:33 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
I'm looking at the team ranking right now and wondering something as I see 3 Mac teams in a row - why shouldn't we combine all our teams into one big team and then we'd be 14th or 15th over all?

I think this would be great, don't know if the other teams would be interested, but it might be worth while. Why compete amongst ourselves when together we could really kick some ass!!

I wonder if folding@home would allow us to combine the teams and current stats.....

Anyone else think this is a good idea?

D

This is already in the works when the stats reset.

Almost every mac team agreeded that this should be done to show the power of all of us, it would help recuiting, flame wars and such, but might decrease morale .


When the next folding, etc comes out I have heard MacNN, Mac Os X and (one would suppose) us would all be on board, I think Mac Addict also had a similar discussion.

But remember this is all cross boards and that doesn't go over too well.

Things have to be planed, a site maybe? Who is hosting, who has powers, forums?
Etc...

Mr. Anderson
May 28, 2003, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by MrMacman
This is already in the works when the stats reset.


When are the stats going to reset?

I'm all for a single huge Mac Team, it would be fantastic - and I forgot about MacNN.

We could just keep the same forums for now and then make sure everyone switches over to the same team. It would be a lot easier if folding would somehow allow us to have separate teams but consider us all on a different one - sort of a subset of a big team...

D

MrMacMan
May 28, 2003, 09:52 PM
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
When are the stats going to reset?

I'm all for a single huge Mac Team, it would be fantastic - and I forgot about MacNN.

We could just keep the same forums for now and then make sure everyone switches over to the same team. It would be a lot easier if folding would somehow allow us to have separate teams but consider us all on a different one - sort of a subset of a big team...

D

Well, the problem is, no one knows, only the folding gods themselves can tell us, I guess when folding (v3? v4? v4 /me thinks)

Comes out everyone can make a switch over or something.

The Last part would sorta be hard, keep the competive nature with no central forum?
What are we running a 'headless operation?' (:things of the movie 'cube':)

There are a couple very small Mac Teams out there also, but it wouldn't make a siginificant difference.

Because no one knows when the stasts will reset or folding is updated, no real plans can be offically made.

People also were dealing with switching now or when they reset, but I think the idea was wait it out.

pEZ
May 28, 2003, 10:20 PM
I don't mean to sound too gung-ho about all this, but that is a great idea. I've always felt kinda wierd competing against all the other mac teams, because we're all kinda trying to show the power in the Macintosh platform.

You would have to have a central website so that all members could have a "home" and a message board to discuss rank and such, like we do here. There would be little sense of community at first, but if people really wanted to do it, it would work.

The final question being, would PCs be "allowed" on the team? Kinda wierd if a so-called all-Mac team folded on PCs too.

Rower_CPU
May 28, 2003, 10:38 PM
I think it would be good to do, if it could be hosted by people from the big teams in a "neutral" space.

If the ÜberMac team's forums and info were on MacNN, or MR, etc, it would be too much like it was that site's team. I think a pow-wow of the head honchos from the teams would be in order to get everyone to sign on.

Maybe we should all just fold for the Apple team. ;)

As for the PCs...hmmm...not sure.

P-Worm
May 29, 2003, 12:09 AM
Originally posted by MrMacman
(:things of the movie 'cube':)


Sorry to change the subject, but I love that movie and I think everyone should see it. :)

P-Worm

P-Worm
May 29, 2003, 12:11 AM
Originally posted by pEZ
The final question being, would PCs be "allowed" on the team? Kinda wierd if a so-called all-Mac team folded on PCs too.

No one has to know that we are using outside sources. ;)

P-Worm

MrMacMan
May 29, 2003, 06:14 AM
Well when folding tells us the stats are resetting, we can do it, but untill then...

Falleron
May 29, 2003, 07:14 AM
Sounds like a good idea to me. Only problem is getting things organised. A main site would be needed for Mac Folding.

Mr. Anderson
May 29, 2003, 07:39 AM
So who's going to be the MacRumors Team Captain here?

Someone should get things going now so that when the stats get reset we're all ready to go.

D

Falleron
May 29, 2003, 07:46 AM
Well, it would probably have to be mc68k. If we had a team up and running quickly then we could get a head start.

The macrumors team has done great, especially recently. However, I dont see that we can go much further up the rankings without some major new contributions. (Having said that, with Altivec + the 970's, we could yet start to increase our production.)

Rower_CPU
May 29, 2003, 11:40 AM
Originally posted by Falleron
Well, it would probably have to be mc68k. If we had a team up and running quickly then we could get a head start.

The macrumors team has done great, especially recently. However, I dont see that we can go much further up the rankings without some major new contributions. (Having said that, with Altivec + the 970's, we could yet start to increase our production.)

Well, we'll be the number 1 Mac team by the end of the summer and gain a couple more places after we've passed and been passed a few times.

I'll talk to mc68k about it when he comes in to work today.

Mr. Anderson
May 29, 2003, 01:39 PM
Rower and mc68k would be a good set of co captains - they have my vote! :D

D

britboy
May 29, 2003, 01:41 PM
This sounds like a great idea to me. At the end of the day, we're all mac users, and should logically work together. It would be very nice to have a mac team in the top 20. If all the major mac teams were to come onboard....we'd have rather a large output ;)

One of the major sticking points could be which team everyone migrates to. I would suggest that we all join Apple Computer Inc. (http://www.statsman.org/folding2stats/html/1991.html). It would make a certain degree of sense.

Rower_CPU
May 29, 2003, 01:48 PM
Originally posted by britboy
This sounds like a great idea to me. At the end of the day, we're all mac users, and should logically work together. It would be very nice to have a mac team in the top 20. If all the major mac teams were to come onboard....we'd have rather a large output ;)

One of the major sticking points could be which team everyone migrates to. I would suggest that we all join Apple Computer Inc. (http://www.statsman.org/folding2stats/html/1991.html). It would make a certain degree of sense.

Originally posted by Rower_CPU
I think it would be good to do, if it could be hosted by people from the big teams in a "neutral" space.

If the ÜberMac team's forums and info were on MacNN, or MR, etc, it would be too much like it was that site's team. I think a pow-wow of the head honchos from the teams would be in order to get everyone to sign on.

Maybe we should all just fold for the Apple team. ;)

Great minds think alike. :p

britboy
May 29, 2003, 01:52 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Great minds think alike. :p


haha! I think I somehow just scrolled straight past your post and didn't see it.

Great minds indeed.....:D :rolleyes:

pgwalsh
May 29, 2003, 01:57 PM
If someone registers the name, I can host the site.

britboy
May 29, 2003, 02:20 PM
I was just adding it all up, and if we could club together with TeamMacNN, MacAddict4life, Team Mac OS X, MacCentral.com and Apple Computer Inc., we'd have a combined output of over 90,000 points per week. That would be.....rather nice.

mc68k
May 29, 2003, 03:14 PM
i don't like the idea of folding for Apple itself. i'd rather fold for team(s) that have demostrated a competitive spirit in the past. if Apple really had an interest in folding, or distributed computing in general for that matter, then they would have larger output and more than a couple references on their site. of course they created the HW and some of the software that we run it on, but that's like racing for GM even though they didn't sponsor you.

but anyways, i like the conglomerate idea very much...the stats would have to be reset for this to even be feasible and a large advance notice would have to be given. that way we could plan for a specific time rather than something that might not happen in the near future or at all.

that would be nice to give ppl like [H]ard OCP an actual adversary and to see the real depth of unified mac computing resources. i think we would see a much more output than the current sum. the OS backwards compatibility issue is really a hinderance to mac teams...but i see that as more of Apple's fault for going a new direction and completely terminating old technologies. PC ppl can run folding on an old 98 box. mac ppl without the capacity to run X are out of luck. merely having mac machines and a willingness to fold are not sufficient in all cases. it's sort of disheartening-- especially to a large effort.

i'd be happy to represent our team if the opportunity ever presented itself.

pEZ
May 29, 2003, 03:29 PM
If we are going to do this, it would take an insanely large amount of time to get everyone together. We should try and find an approximate time that the stats will be reset, and if it's in the near future, we should get this team going asap. I'd guess it would take a good 3-6 months to get everyone on the same page with the team thing - everyone is on different schedules, people might not remember who people told to fold for team 3446 who are just running it in the background and forgetting about it, etc. My 2¢.

bertinman
May 29, 2003, 03:35 PM
apple comps only?

Im hoping there isn't going to be too much against using windows and linux machines as well as Apples... I have one Apple, but many PC's under my belt that can easily be "good-for-something" by folding.

There is a way to see if the machines turning in WU's are different OS's.. otherwise they wouldn't have the stats (sorry no link) on the main site.

Also,
I agree with mc68k that the Apple team might not be the best choice of unified team. If I was in the Apple team in the company, I'd setup a nice cluster of xserves just to show they can compete with the linux clusters! I'm sure they have plenty of testing rooms where they need to test robustness (the new gromacs code is suppose to be the new burn-in king isn't it???).

- bert

mc68k
May 29, 2003, 03:42 PM
Originally posted by bertinman
apple comps only?

Im hoping there isn't going to be too much against using windows and linux machines as well as Apples... I have one Apple, but many PC's under my belt that can easily be "good-for-something" by folding. most of my machines are PCs...from what I've seen comparing frame times on the same protein between platforms, they produce better.

even the xserve with awesome architecture suffers here. PCs on a mac team is grounds for hypocrisy, but it is a necessary 'evil'.

bertinman
May 29, 2003, 04:10 PM
Originally posted by mc68k
most of my machines are PCs...from what I've seen comparing frame times on the same protein between platforms, they produce better.

even the xserve with awesome architecture suffers here. PCs on a mac team is grounds for hypocrisy, but it is a necessary 'evil'.

:) I know you have a large amount of windows machine in your lab. I'm just saying, being a mac fanatic myself, people might tend to look down on the people with higher crunching numbers that use windows instead of Apples.

Would it not be wierd for the top ranks of the Macteam to be populated with mostly windows machines? I find it hard to believe that team members will let that down, or other teams pointing it out to us all the time.

My only defence to anti-mac users that make fun of me being on a mac team with windows machines is that I love the platform and want to support it with all I've got. This is easily thrown back at me all the time. I don't want it to increase so much that both mac users and windows users are not happy with people like me.

Anyway, this has become a rant and I'll end it soon.

I joined the team originally because I liked Apples, but rarly got to use them because I spent all my time reading rumor sites and waiting to buy the next cool new system, and macrumors is visted by alot of people like me -- so I fit in. I'm not sure If all my windows and linux machines would fit into a new team that was suppose to show the combined strength of the Apple computer.

- bert

OT -- I tend to use (if at all) the phrase PC for Apple computers because I use them for my personal use, and also because Apple coined it (didn't they). Also, I find windows machines to be less than personal in most cases and a pirate of the phrase its self.

mc68k
May 29, 2003, 04:25 PM
Originally posted by bertinman
My only defence to anti-mac users that make fun of me being on a mac team with windows machines is that I love the platform and want to support it with all I've got. This is easily thrown back at me all the time. I don't want it to increase so much that both mac users and windows users are not happy with people like me.windows machines make over 92% of the client base (for the folding project) so it'd be sort of a pointless endeavour not to use them.

MrMacMan
May 29, 2003, 04:52 PM
Yes, the team would support all folding, and joining the team basically means that you like or support '(insert name here)'

jayb2000
May 29, 2003, 05:34 PM
1) Reality Distortion Team - after all, we are distorting real proteins :cool:
2) iFold
3) PowerFold
4) Mac Community Folders
5) Bad MF - Mac Folders :D

Just a few thoughts to get the discussion started.

I looked and found over 120 Mac, Apple, or OS X teams. Did not count exact numbers, but we could put up some HUGE numbers if we got together.

bertinman
May 29, 2003, 06:00 PM
Originally posted by mc68k
windows machines make over 92% of the client base (for the folding project) so it'd be sort of a pointless endeavour not to use them.

That's not my point.

My point is, this topic was brought up to combine groups with mac names into one group to show the power of the mac faithful. I am a mac faithful but I use windows machines for work, so they are on the team. I'm not saying we shouldn't or can't use windows machines, just stating in a matter-of-fact tone that there will be the problem which I stated before--a mac faithful team lead by members who are majority windows is weird. In my eyes, I am adding the power of my amd and intel chips to the motorola and ibm chips to increase the ranking of a team that will say: `here is a team devoted to a minority in computing but we are not small nor irrelevant—this is how many there really are of us, and how strongly we want to be recognized.’

Nothing against using windows machines (I use them…) just stating the obvious.

I don’t want to get in an argument with the team leader anyway ;)

- bert

MrMacMan
May 29, 2003, 06:53 PM
You are all forgetting that there are a good 4 other powerful teams...

Anyway, as I said, joining any team doesn't mean you are a mac user, if I give a WU to Team Linux do I use Linux?
No, but I agree that other teams would question this.

Our response should be that 'The only good thing for these windows computers, is folding itself' :)

mc68k
May 29, 2003, 07:15 PM
Originally posted by bertinman
I'm not saying we shouldn't or can't use windows machines, just stating in a matter-of-fact tone that there will be the problem which I stated before--a mac faithful team lead by members who are majority windows is weirdi see what u're saying now. points vs. philosophy
`here is a team devoted to a minority in computing but we are not small nor irrelevant—this is how many there really are of us, and how strongly we want to be recognized.’i feel the same way when i recruit windows machines. i think it shows the duality of mac users, that we love our platform, but are able to use others well also. i bet the top 10 teams have almost no macs comprising their points. i'd say macs prob make up ~30-40% of our points from what ppl have said in the past.
I don’t want to get in an argument with the team leader anyway ;) not too shabby urself. :) keep up the great effort.

bertinman
May 29, 2003, 07:33 PM
Originally posted by mc68k
i see what u're saying now. points vs. philosophy


:) it's all good, I'm a blabber mouth and know it so I have big run-on spurts of thought every once in a while.

not too shabby urself. keep up the great effort.

my order for new comps hasn't come through yet, but soon I'll be getting 22 new comps crunching away :D.

- bert

(side-note don't know if anyone else uses a P4 with Hyper threading, but it acts as a dual processor. I set one up two days ago and found that I couldn't get folding to take up 100% cpu use, only 50%,with hyperthreading enabled, so I setup another folding exe as if it was a second cpu and it uses the other 50% :))

wsteineker
May 29, 2003, 07:41 PM
Originally posted by jayb2000
1) Reality Distortion Team - after all, we are distorting real proteins :cool:
2) iFold
3) PowerFold
4) Mac Community Folders
5) Bad MF - Mac Folders :D
Oooh, you're close here. What about TeamRDF? That sounds somehow cooler I think.

pEZ
May 29, 2003, 08:04 PM
"(insert team name here) - though we fold on PCs, we love our Macs more."

MrMacMan
May 29, 2003, 08:24 PM
Oh well no one likes my idea.

Anyway, who has relations to the other teams forums? Anyone friendly with MacAddict or Team Mac Os X? (or even MacNN?)

BTW, someone needs to e-mail one of the head people seeing if there will be a major reset of scores or a update for folding as a whole.

mc68k
May 29, 2003, 10:35 PM
Originally posted by bertinman
my order for new comps hasn't come through yet, but soon I'll be getting 22 new comps crunching away :D.shïte what kind of comps are they supposed to be?

MrMacMan
May 29, 2003, 10:58 PM
Originally posted by mc68k
shïte what kind of comps are they supposed to be?
geez, I missed that.
22, it doesn't even matter with that power if he has 233 PII's running, at one point he is gonna dump them all. :o

22, wow, if they are few, that is would kick.

Certainly bring us up another rank. Maybe we can stop a couple teams from passing?

pEZ
May 30, 2003, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by jayb2000
1) Reality Distortion Team - after all, we are distorting real proteins :cool:
2) iFold
3) PowerFold
4) Mac Community Folders
5) Bad MF - Mac Folders :D

Hehe - just though of this one - blatant rip off, but so what. How about a name with one of those annoying brackets? Such as General [M]acintosh?

bertinman
May 30, 2003, 11:51 AM
Originally posted by mc68k
shïte what kind of comps are they supposed to be?

hehe, I mentioned the specs a few weeks ago when I put the order in--the purchasing department just took their time sending out the money...

they are all P4 2.4g's which is all that really counts for folding :).

they are to replace a room of comps I have that have PII 300's and a few athlons. I think I'll be able to keep the athlons running, because they are just moving to another office down the hall from me. The PII's are dropping like flys though, so I'll make them into foot stools :).

anyway, come monday I should get a big jump in crunching because they finally come in today--just got the call :)

(glad to see someone else excited besides my lan party friends!)

- bert

Rower_CPU
May 30, 2003, 12:08 PM
Originally posted by bertinman
hehe, I mentioned the specs a few weeks ago when I put the order in--the purchasing department just took their time sending out the money...

they are all P4 2.4g's which is all that really counts for folding :).

they are to replace a room of comps I have that have PII 300's and a few athlons. I think I'll be able to keep the athlons running, because they are just moving to another office down the hall from me. The PII's are dropping like flys though, so I'll make them into foot stools :).

anyway, come monday I should get a big jump in crunching because they finally come in today--just got the call :)

(glad to see someone else excited besides my lan party friends!)

- bert

Nice! Nothing like a little F@H burn-in on new machines. ;)

Looking forward to seeing what kind of output you get. :eek:

bertinman
May 30, 2003, 12:19 PM
on to the topic again :)

We should probably keep the words mac or apple or something like that in the name.

maybe a name dealing with Apples the fruit?

or something simple like "Folding with Macs" <-- sounds like a kids show though ;)

also, jayb2000, I liked "PowerFold", but how about "PowerFolding" instead?

and "Bad Mac Shut Yo Mouth's" <-- for the retro bit in us all :D

alright, Im done... I suck at naming things!

- bert

MacBandit
May 30, 2003, 12:25 PM
What if we were to leave Apple out of the name and simply make a name that shows our adversion to windows. Then we would be getting Linux users and anyone else who hates Windows.

MrMacMan
Jun 3, 2003, 08:46 PM
They are all very good ideas, just need to work the 'kinks' out.

I am for my team name 'Mac Folding Alliance'
or heck, anything with 'Alliance' in the name sounds really cool. :D :D

(sorry for digging thread back up)

reader50
Jun 6, 2003, 01:33 AM
Team BigMac

Guys, we get recruits from general-interest websites (news sites generally) which also support healthy forum populations. The sponsor sites in turn support us to get free advertising and more regular site traffic - some of those will certainly follow the handy links back to the root news pages.

I can't think of a reason for our various sponsors to continue supporting us on a different team, except Mac pride, and pride does not help pay the server bills.

Here on MacNN, we get an email about once a month from someone who wants to combine all the higher Mac teams. Usually on one project, but sometimes they are ambitious enough to argue combination across all projects. In most cases, the email authors make the mistake of assuming our members will do whatever the team leaders tell them to do. Heh, most of the MacNN members have never posted in our team forum ... some may not have even found our forums.

My reply is always much the same, a link to our team forum and the suggestion that they present their reasoning to our members. So far, not one emailer has followed through. We've discussed it a few times ourselves like you are here, and nothing has come of that either.

On mature teams, most members are inactive. They crunched for a time, got bored, and moved on. Without a general website and forums to supply a steady supply of new members, a team will gradually die off. If we jump off to found our BigMac team, we also need to build our own site - but each major Mac team already has one. It would cost a ton of money, steady attention to news content probably, and would just get us competing with our current sponsors for banner ad bucks and active members.

My opinion is that only Apple could set something like that up. There are a few problems though... They don't seem to be interested. The Apple Fold team has fallen out of the Top 100 because Apple didn't do anything to continue interest. There was the one article, and that was it. The team lasted ~6 months before wilting away.
Even if Apple got interested, they have a control attitude that I would not care to be under. Post something not-so-complimentary in their support forums, and start the stopwatch. Your post/thread will vanish pretty quickly. Our current sponsors are far more tolerant of criticism, and by extension, all other forms of free speech.I do not see how this could get set up successfully unless someone wanted to spend a bunch of real money on it. And I do not see how it could be continued at all even if it got started.

If you want to take a crack at the reasoning, feel free to hit our team forum (http://forums.macnn.com/forumdisplay.php?forumid=72) and talk our members into it. You will more than likely be taken for a spy, trying to recruit for macrumors. I'd expect the same to apply on MacAddict and MacOSX forums if you tried those instead, but if you can present a good enough arguement, who knows where it will go.

MacBandit
Jun 6, 2003, 01:47 AM
I don't think you need to have one unified website. I think that the members could just come from there prospective forums like they do now and sign on to the main team rather then the individual teams like they do now.

In any case I don't think one main team is the end all answer. All it will do is encourage a few PC teams to joing up and beat us. I think the answer is in more aggressive recruiting. As I have mentioned before most people don't even know what folding is. Even those that do sort of know they don't know what the different causes it helps. Finally even those that know all the previous don't know that it will most likely not affect there computing experience one bit. We just need to educate members about folding. This includes getting their curiosity up so they are interested by getting a few small banners placed around the site.

pEZ
Jun 6, 2003, 10:23 AM
How many PC teams are there? I just don't see that many joining and rising up against a single powerhouse Mac team.

We are, after all, united for the Mac.

I just think it needs to be an effort across the boards so it's not a huge burden to any one person. There should be no "leader" of this team, everyone who does it should just change teams because they think it's an awesome idea.

For example, find out who knows PHP and have them design a board (by who I mean multiple entities working to an end). Find out who is experienced at web design and have them collaborate and banter over a final result.

The static nature of message boards allows this non-leader thing to happen, because anyone who wants to take initiative can. I can post a new thread on the boards here at MacRumors that discusses web design of the new, unified site. We could decide what should(n't) be included, etc. on the thread, even though I have no "authority" standing here. I don't even have enough posts for an avatar.

I just think that if we all stopped talking about it happening and started making it happening, we'd get a lot farther.

Phatpat
Jun 15, 2003, 01:09 PM
I just started folding again after a long break. I'm all for a Mac team. I have a website, but don't know much about forums. A few people should get a site going and start creating interest. We need to prove that we have a lot of people that will sign up before the switch is made. Combining our forces would help a lot.