Disappointed with Oblivion

[raggedjimmi]

[this is the 360 version]

To be honest I've only played it for an hour, afraid that's all I can stomach. My brother gives me a run down of the controls, easy peasy! lets go.
I've played the first 15 minutes of the PC version and it showed me promise. But so I'm not repeating it my bro loads up his save. I don't know the details, we're on a horse, theres some ape-like thing chasing us and a wolf appears from the foliage. First thoughts were

"Damn this hill looks ugly". It was night, the plants all have a sharp white glow to them that looks horrendous in 1080i (might be easier on the eyes in 720?). So we're galloping over hills n stuff, loving the night sky graphics, disgusted with the draw distances. There was an obvious ring around the player of 10 or so metres of dense plants, then it just cut off. You could even clearly see the wolf lying there, as you approached it would become hidden again, then arise as if to surprise you?
Textures lacked so much detail.
It's my own fault I think. The way Oblivion is hyped up to be the super beautiful game that can't run properly even on a PS3 sorta makes you expect something stunning. The only positive stinging on me was size of the world.
Found it funny that if you're on a horse and you run off a rock/cliff, the galloping noise still plays, OOPS!
Then the frame rate. This is absolutely what killed it for me. It stuttered too much, like every 5 seconds there would be a brief pause, and the framerate running through all the grass was hideous, I'd estimate it at 20fps and totally detracted from the enjoyment.

The loading was horrendous. It would be brilliant if they paused the game when it first loads up so I could have taken my dog for a walk or made myself a snack without being killed ingame. I never noticed a PSP taking this long to load. If I had to do that everyday I'd probably go back to playing my glorious PS1. Even the loading for entering a house was terrible, and the way your movement doesn't slow down was an oversight. I mean it's nice to run outside but indoors in such an enclosed area just looked silly.

The music is brilliant. I really liked the loading music (I suppose you have to really), reminds me of LoTR to no end with the melodies. But that's a very very good thing, audio guys get my approval.

Maybe I can't see the forest because of the trees, maybe theres a good game down there somewhere. I can't find it amidst the problems that seems to plague all these free roaming games (movement always looks buggy?). Would it help if I lowered the resolution to 720 or 480? I've always valued smooth framerates over high resolutions through years of PC gaming.

[MacRumorUser]

It doesnt stutter that much for me in the open, I think you have to clear your HDD cache. There's info over on the Oblivion forums about how to do that.

Reduce it to 720p but I dont think it will make much difference, if it's your HDD cache that's at cause.

To be honest, playing Oblivion for 1 hour isn't enough. Your barely out of the sewer by that point.

As for speed of walking, err it's analogue sensitive. If you are gentle on the controller you walk, push hard you run.

Texture lacked detail ? Well yes in the distance they do, but up close the textures are very good, people and creatures are really well done. Running through a forest there's a huge amount of detail within your main periphery.


Try and clear the HDD cache first, 'google it' and then give it until you've at least opened portals and joined a fraction.

1 hour is just not enough, heck if you spent 1 hour with Zelda : TP you would be similarly unimpressed. Washed out blury visuals, textures that would make a whore blush, so slow paced that a snail would beat it in a race, an open world with planes with textures so muddy and brown it's like your living in a sludge pit.

You need to give the game enough time so you've done a few quests, maybe visted the first oblivion gate etc.

Also those faults are not the 360 hardware. The game has just an underdeveloped engine. On the PC too, I can play at 1280x768 maxed and it does have loads of loading on the surface world, and similarly I can run in 1920x1200 and its the same. Resolution made no difference. The distant land looks a bit crappy on both formats.

They have said they have improved the distant land textures on the PS3 version, but whether this is true or not we will ahve to wait and see.

[raggedjimmi]

I know it's analogue sensitive. It seems to be the same problem in GTA too, in that they have this giant world, so the designers give the player a fast movement. However when in a small enclosed space, the movement feels like it doesn't adapt properly. Zelda has it nailed; horse- faster, wolf-fast, Link- slow. Even Saints Row has better controls in this respect (which I really like, before the 360 squad get on my case).

I just think I was expecting too much from GotY and with all these people saying "it can't be done on PS3 properly". It's got too many bugs and design problems to make me want to play it properly again.

And the save I played on was my bros and very far into the game. I wasn't playing that for the story, I wanted to see these impressive visuals in 1080i.

Oh, cache cleared. No stuttering every 5 seconds now, still choppy framerate :(

[MacRumorUser]

Oh, cache cleared. No stuttering every 5 seconds now, still choppy framerate :(

mmm. try 720p maybe ? but I dont think it will change. PS3 version wont be any different other than the distant land objects. From the playtests I've seen loading etc is all about the same, it doesnt install to the HDD like some PS3 games can, it just uses it the same as the 360 does, and its 720p only on the PS3 I believe.

Like I say the pc version plays just like the 360 version. Heck put a 360 controller in your pc and its basically identical, just that the loading is a bit quicker, but it still loads very often in the open world. The framerate appears to have a locked maximum too.

Maybe ElderScrolls 4 will have a better developed engine that makes it open world better, but like you say I think it's mostly a curse of 'OPEN WORLD' gaming. You can have a massive open world, but if you want a load of details close up then you have to load them into scene at regular intervals.

[Haoshiro]

Yeah, I was going to mention the cache.

Oblivion is the game I've been playing for the last several weeks, and the only game I play just about every day.

I don't really notice much issue with the framerate, occasionally it hitches, but really not that often for it to be a problem for me. In fact, I'm almost certain it's caused by background loading.

As for loading, it really is not NEAR as bad as you make it sounds... 10-20 seconds, rarely more then that and you don't have to worry about it that often except when entering/exiting a town. Sure there is some loading going into buildings, but it seems to be intelligently cached so that areas you've just been too don't require loading to go back to.

I definitely agree with MRU that 1 hour is not enough... but you have a bigger problem - you jumped into someone else's game. Imagine if you did that in a Zelda game, that would be silly and it is even more so here.

It's important you start straight from the beginning, making you character, etc. So he was fast, what level was he? He might have been a high level Assassin with Agility and Speed at 100 (max)... this is a *stat heavy* game.

While I think the draw distance of the basic world is great (get up on a hill and look out over the forest, lakes, and cities, it looks great) but the short distance of the "extras" like foilage, rocks, etc is a definite distraction. There are areas that this is more of a problem then others, though. Often it's simply a non issue in dungeons, and in most of the world it seems like there is enough rolling hills, trees, etc that you can't tell. It's when you are traversing plains where it's horribly noticable.

My guess about the wolf is that is was just laying there, and had you been in Sneak mode you may have been able to get to him without getting his attention.

I find the game more interesting the longer I play, seeing the different skills they give you at different levels for each category, etc (like a Master of Mercentile can invest gold in shops).

Joining Guilds is great as well, as you get a lot of quests and some of them with decently intricate plots (like the Mages Guild). And I haven't even explored the Theif Guild or Dark Brotherhood.

Maybe ElderScrolls 4 will have a better developed engine that makes it open world better, but like you say I think it's mostly a curse of 'OPEN WORLD' gaming. You can have a massive open world, but if you want a load of details close up then you have to load them into scene at regular intervals.

Oblivion is ElderScrolls 4! :)

I am hoping that was ES5 they just improve on what they have here. I don't see why they would need a bigger world then this. So if they could just get a nice tweaked engine for 360 perhaps they could improve loading and framerate, while at the same time giving a longer range to those extra visual details like foilage. It really doesn't seem like it would take that much to make this game look heaps better... which is saying a lot.

[MacRumorUser]

^agree totally...


What i think makes the game so good - despite its techincal flaws are

A real breathing world, where everybody talks and has their own story & life. Where they go around their daily business if you were around or not. The way they will communicate and interact with each other, all adds up to the feeling of total immersion in this living world.

How every NPC has real voices. A first. How your reputation and such effects conversation with them and how your past deeds change outcomes.

Free will to roam where ever you want and when ever.

Where you can go anywhere, at any time frame, no meet these set objectiveds before you can get past this magical barrier blocking off bigs parts of the world (like Zelda and FF games).

There is a sense that your both important, and yet totally unimportant in this world. That the lives of these people will go on, good and bad without you regardless of your actions, again which makes you feel the world truly is real.

The fact that all the NPC's have back stories of divorce, affairs, murder, betrayl as well as there own hopes and fears, desires and love. That level of detail is unprecedented in ANY adventure / RPG

The fact that every nook and cranny is crammed with a full history, you stumble across a ruin or cave location and its full of tales of previous explorers, lost sailors, treasure hunters that have gone before you. Love lost, love gained.

There are the myriad of factions you can align yourself with.
The power to be good or evil, which like reality is less clean cut and is more a case of shades of grey - which in turn change your character and the world around him or her. Peter Molyneaux would have dreamed of achieving such in Fable.

So whilst your framerate may take a hit here and there, or you have to load screen, there's so much 'soul' in this game, so much 'freedom' that it more than makes up for any technical shortcomings.

Oblivion has 'redefined' the RPG genre and will have a lasting affect for years to come. That is why its such a hit and why it's the Game of the Year for so many.

[Allotriophagy]

Such an irritating user interface. You can only have one spell visible on screen at once and selecting another spell quickly involves remembering which hotkey you assigned it to. Otherwise you have to open up your spell book...

And you can't press Y and N for Yes/No in dialogues. Grrr.

[sikkinixx]

They have said they have improved the distant land textures on the PS3 version, but whether this is true or not we will ahve to wait and see.

I saw on one of the Playstation forums (e-mpire I think, can't find the thread though :() that someone posted a comparison of 360 to PS3 of identical locations and all. The PS3 colours looked a bit more refined and less washed out and the draw distance was greater and the picture sharper. But the game is a year old so I would expect it to look better after further tweaking, and having a standard hard drive means that somehting like 5GB of data will be installed on the HDD to make loading times near the same as PC.


But anyways, I was fairly underwhelmed when I bought Oblivion for my 360. The pop ups when you run across a field looked pretty bad, and frankly the character style looks quite ugly to me. The level up system is annoying, forcing you to use crappy skills that don't have anything to do with your player in order to max you stats. The speech was repetitive. It was easy to cheat the game. Yet I played it for like 75 hours and might give it another go on PS3... I guess once you start getting bit huge almightly swords and stuff it pushes you to get further and further to get even BIGGER swords and more evil looking armor, etc.

[MacRumorUser]

Such an irritating user interface. You can only have one spell visible on screen at once and selecting another spell quickly involves remembering which hotkey you assigned it to. Otherwise you have to open up your spell book...

And you can't press Y and N for Yes/No in dialogues. Grrr.


PC version obviously...


I think the game is actually better mapped out for the 360 control pad than it is for the keyboard. I have both the PC & 360 version.


But the game is a year old so I would expect it to look better after further tweaking, and having a standard hard drive means that somehting like 5GB of data will be installed on the HDD to make loading times near the same as PC.

Yet I played it for like 75 hours and might give it another go on PS3... I guess once you start getting bit huge almightly swords and stuff it pushes you to get further and further to get even BIGGER swords and more evil looking armor, etc.

I read an interview with Bethesda on IGN, where they said they were not having an install option ? Maybe they have changed there mind...

That's the thing. 75 hours :eek: and yet they were 'your' 75 hours in the sense that the factions you aligned with, quests you did, places you went and such were more than likely utterly different to someone else who has palyed for 75 hours, and that's some going for a game.

[sikkinixx]

That's the thing. 75 hours :eek: and yet they were 'your' 75 hours in the sense that the factions you aligned with, quests you did, places you went and such were more than likely utterly different to someone else who has palyed for 75 hours, and that's some going for a game.

well i had just gotten out of the hospital for when you are in bed for a week then "hey! might as well play oblivion", funny thing is i never did the main quest at all. I did everything else, just not the main quest lol.

[e²Studios]

I saw on one of the Playstation forums (e-mpire I think, can't find the thread though :() that someone posted a comparison of 360 to PS3 of identical locations and all. The PS3 colours looked a bit more refined and less washed out and the draw distance was greater and the picture sharper. But the game is a year old so I would expect it to look better after further tweaking, and having a standard hard drive means that somehting like 5GB of data will be installed on the HDD to make loading times near the same as PC.


I think you were talking about this thread http://forums.e-mpire.com/showpost.php?p=1411843&postcount=19

There are also some photo comparisons in this thread http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=68781

Ed

[sikkinixx]

I think you were talking about this thread http://forums.e-mpire.com/showpost.php?p=1411843&postcount=19

There are also some photo comparisons in this thread http://forums.e-mpire.com/showthread.php?t=68781

Ed

that would be it :D

Look at the second set, the 360 has that checkerboard kind of pattern going on while the PS3 doesn't. It's not a HUGE difference but better than nothin.

[Moshiiii]

Oblivion isn't about graphics for me. Its about the deep gameplay.
People were playing stuff like this on pen and paper years ago.
Graphics don't matter.

[pcypert]

This was one of the first games I played after buying my 360. I play all at 720p because I'd ALWAYS rather have progressive over higher res interlaced. Never noticed any of the problems mentioned and I'm super sensitive to frame rates from my horrible World of Warcraft experiences.

Right now it needs more time than I have for it though. I forget the controls on my few day breaks of playing it and have a hard time coming back to it. I am liking my character more and more and loved storming the dark tower area or whatever. As soon as I beet the last two bosses in Crackdown I may head back to it.

It's a very, very solid game though. I know you only get to mash a button to swing your sword ;) But it's still fun despite that...there's real gameplay there. Or is game play not lush, full, interactive environments with tons of detail and possibilities...or is it only fast frame rates (though I've still yet to have a frame rate issue...just for arguments sake)...

Paul

[Agilus]

I'd like to play Oblivion one of these days. Not sure what platform I'd get it on, though. Morrowind was a fun game, and I find that I tend to like western RPGs better than eastern RPGs in general. They fit in better with my own RPG expectations, being an avid tabletop RPGer and all.

I did have a few nitpicks about Morrowind, though. For all of its "open world" it was still pretty easy to talk to new NPCs and say, "Oh, this is NPC type A. I talked to a clone of you in the last house. No reason to talk to YOU," due to all of the possible dialog options popping up that you've already run through in previous type A NPC encounters. Still, the variety of NPC encounters was pretty good.

I also enjoyed just going off track once in a while and becoming an outlaw. I appreciated when the game informed me that I had put it into an unfinishable state by offing an important NPC, too. In my opinion, this is better than artificially limiting what the player can do.

Also, the level editor that came with it was pretty cool. Being able to install user-created content and design your own is always an awesome feature. If you can't do this on any of the consoles, I might have to go with the PC version after I get an Intel MacBook Pro.

[yellow]

Oblivion looks pretty good on my PC. Personally I don't think it would make a very good console game.

[MacRumorUser]

Oblivion looks pretty good on my PC. Personally I don't think it would make a very good console game.

Err it was developed for both console & pc siumulatneously.

And the console version actually has better defined control mechanics over the pc version. It's far easier to change spells etc, on the console version than it is on the pc.

Even though I can play oblivion maxed out at 1920x1200 with 2x AA + Bloom on my mac pro - I still prefer playing on console, and even when maxed out on pc, there is very little difference graphically between it and the console version.

[Moshiiii]

Oblivion looks pretty good on my PC. Personally I don't think it would make a very good console game.

I disagree. I play Oblivion on my PC but I'd rather have a xbox 360 to play it on. The reason would be I'd like to kick back on my couch and play the game instead of in my PC chair. I do have a really nice Ikea computer chair though, its just the fact I can relax better on a couch than a computer chair...which is probably a good thing

To each his own.

[2nyRiggz]

[this is the 360 version]
The loading was horrendous. It would be brilliant if they paused the game when it first loads up so I could have taken my dog for a walk or made myself a snack without being killed ingame. I never noticed a PSP taking this long to load. If I had to do that everyday I'd probably go back to playing my glorious PS1. Even the loading for entering a house was terrible, and the way your movement doesn't slow down was an oversight. I mean it's nice to run outside but indoors in such an enclosed area just looked silly.


I don't know about all of that...loading is really not that bad and I think you might have to try the method MRU suggested. I've played the game on max out settings and the works and I never had a problem at all.

The game looks great dude....I'm trying to figure out where you got that from...are you playing it on a old tv tube?



Bless

[Sutekidane]

I'm sorry, but it looks like you already have decided that Oblivion (360) just isn't your game, so you should move on.

[raggedjimmi]

The game looks great dude....I'm trying to figure out where you got that from...are you playing it on a old tv tube?

Philips 32PF5531D-10 32" LCD (I know, it says 720 on the box but the Xbox can run 1080i on it and is clearly sharper than 720i or p.)

I'm not the only one either. Before I got round to playing Oblivion a friend had bought it for his PC, told me that even in his monitors native resolution it looks pants. My brother wasn't too keen either.

Some things look beautiful, like hills in the distance. But the midpoint where foliage vanishes (nobody want to contend that point?) and up close textures (back of the player, trees too) didn't seem worthy of what the 360 can produce.

[emoeric]

Hey im going to throw one into the pot for OBLIVION sucks. It just really is not a good game. Its slow packed and its quite annoying.

Im not trying to get anyone annoyed here, just sharing my opinion that its not a very good game. Take the $60 and buy GoW or Crackdown (with a halo 3 beta!)

[saunders45]

Some things look beautiful, like hills in the distance. But the midpoint where foliage vanishes (nobody want to contend that point?) and up close textures (back of the player, trees too) didn't seem worthy of what the 360 can produce.

It's not that nobody will contend the point, it's that they don't care... Those of us who enjoy Oblivion enjoy it for the immersion, story, leveling, combat, whatever... If it was on the Wii, or it was Zelda, you wouldn't care. i'm not trying to come across as a jerkoff, but for someone who highly stressed gameplay before graphics, give it some time... Start from scratch, and just play as yourself. Don't try to be "good" or "evil", play like it's really you in the character's shoes. THAT is what makes it such an interresting game.... well, that and pH4t 13wwT!!1!!11!!!:)

[MacRumorUser]

It's not that nobody will contend the point, it's that they don't care... Those of us who enjoy Oblivion enjoy it for the immersion, story, leveling, combat, whatever... If it was on the Wii, or it was Zelda, you wouldn't care. i'm not trying to come across as a jerkoff, but for someone who highly stressed gameplay before graphics, give it some time...

I have to agree.

As I outlined in my post about what makes the game so good. It's the depth that it has is unparalleled.

Jimmi give it more time. The midpoint distance is the thing they have updated the engine for on the PS3 version. You no longer see the glaring difference, its blended smoothly from far into close detail.

But I still think regardless of its technical flaws, the game still looks great and is infinitly better looking than other games which people claim are beautiful like Zelda TP, which to me seemed to suffer from N64 muddy texture syndrome.

[saunders45]

But I still think regardless of its technical flaws, the game still looks great and is infinitly better looking than other games which people claim are beautiful like Zelda TP, which to me seemed to suffer from N64 muddy texture syndrome.

Blasphemy!!!!;)

[yellow]

Err it was developed for both console & pc siumulatneously.

I never said it wasn't.

I just observed that I didn't think it would make a very good console game. Mainly because I wouldn't care to play a game of it's type with a console controller.

[Chone]

It's not that nobody will contend the point, it's that they don't care... Those of us who enjoy Oblivion enjoy it for the immersion, story, leveling, combat, whatever... If it was on the Wii, or it was Zelda, you wouldn't care. i'm not trying to come across as a jerkoff, but for someone who highly stressed gameplay before graphics, give it some time... Start from scratch, and just play as yourself. Don't try to be "good" or "evil", play like it's really you in the character's shoes. THAT is what makes it such an interresting game.... well, that and pH4t 13wwT!!1!!11!!!:)

In Jimmi's defense, he really is just complaining about the graphics not the gameplay, for all we know he might have enjoyed the game but thought the graphics were not worthy of being on a 360, different things. Oblivion isn't that pretty looking, on the PC it can be fixed and improved with several mods but overall Oblivion is a crummy looking game (face models are so ugly) with tons of effects thrown in your face for eyecandy and to top it off its fun but its still lacking a lot in the gameplay and depth department. Half Life 2 Lost Coast looks better than Oblivion.

[saunders45]

Mainly because I wouldn't care to play a game of it's type with a console controller.

Believe it or not, it plays rather well on the 360 controller. Plus, with the wireless, I can play while I run on my eliptical inside the house. Man.... I'm a dork...

[saunders45]

In Jimmi's defense, he really is just complaining about the graphics not the gameplay, for all we know he might have enjoyed the game but thought the graphics were not worthy of being on a 360, different things. Oblivion isn't that pretty looking, on the PC it can be fixed and improved with several mods but overall Oblivion is a crummy looking game (face models are so ugly) with tons of effects thrown in your face for eyecandy and to top it off its fun but its still lacking a lot in the gameplay and depth department. Half Life 2 Lost Coast looks better than Oblivion.

Agreed, but compare the game type and game world size, and Oblivion isn't so bad then. We as gamers will always nitpick graphics, but nitpicking one game for it's flaws, and dismissing those flaws for another game because of it's title is another thing.

[raggedjimmi]

So I'm riding through Hyrule on a horse, oops! an enemy faded in from nowhere! nope.

It's the same for games like GTA:SA- cars just pop up constantly. Things like that detract from the gameplay. Which is what I've been saying. Way to spin this around :D

Graphics- popping up mid-ground, choppy framerates, having to clear the cache to get the game running smoothly (increasing load times).
Gameplay- buggy engine, bad controls. No matter how fun the game, a buggy engine will always subtract from the overall enjoyment. Hell in the case of Lego Star Wars 2 on the DS it just makes it impossible to play.
Can't fault audio.

Wasn't too hard now was it?

I'm hoping the PS3 version is better, or that they update the PC version.

[saunders45]

So I'm riding through Hyrule on a horse, oops! an enemy faded in from nowhere! nope. I have yet to see an enemy "fade in" one time, and I've put over 50 hours into the game. The only time NPC's fade is when entering doors. I can't comment on Zelda's graphics yet, because mine is still sitting on the shelf, unopened. When I get bored with Oblivion, then I'll open it.

Gameplay- buggy engine, bad controls. No matter how fun the game, a buggy engine will always subtract from the overall enjoyment.
Wasn't too hard now was it?

But it's not "buggy", it was simply the technical limitations at the time of release. Had the game waited until 2008, with that much time with the hardware, Bethesda would probably have been able to figure it out.

[raggedjimmi]

But it's not "buggy", it was simply the technical limitations at the time of release. Had the game waited until 2008, with that much time with the hardware, Bethesda would probably have been able to figure it out.

So simply decreasing the max running speed when inside a house was a technical limitation at the time? I really hope they tighten up the controls for the 2007 PS3 release.

I have yet to see an enemy "fade in" one time, and I've put over 50 hours into the game. The only time NPC's fade is when entering doors. I can't comment on Zelda's graphics yet, because mine is still sitting on the shelf, unopened. When I get bored with Oblivion, then I'll open it.

Night time on some hill, just fell off a rock (still playing the looping galloping sound), wolf suddenly appears lying down, approach it and the grass covers it, THEN it arises as if to surprise the player?
How the hell does that work?

[MacRumorUser]

I'm hoping the PS3 version is better, or that they update the PC version.

You can download mods that improve some of the visuals of the pc.

PS3 version has a smoother blend of distance and foreground - that's all.
Other than that it looks identical and plays indentically. So you will probably hate it then.

And the controls will be the same. ;)

So simply decreasing the max running speed when inside a house was a technical limitation at the time? I really hope they tighten up the controls for the 2007 PS3 release.

I really dont get this at all. ?? I have ZERO problems walking around inside a house with NO control problems.

[saunders45]

So simply decreasing the max running speed when inside a house was a technical limitation at the time? I really hope they tighten up the controls for the 2007 PS3 release.
It's not hard, at all... Even being naked, at 100 Athletics, it still isn't hard to control...

If you want to talk about control problems... Red Steel.... AWFUL.......


Night time on some hill, just fell off a rock (still playing the looping galloping sound), wolf suddenly appears lying down, approach it and the grass covers it, THEN it arises as if to surprise the player?
How the hell does that work?

Ya got me there... So the game glitched, what game hasn't ever glitched?

[Freyqq]

mods make the game so much better..

[pcypert]

I really think he didn't play all that much and is trying to dig his heels in now that multiple actual OWNERS and PLAYERS of the game have spoken up. I don't have framerate issues and the game look great. Much, much better than Zelda for Wii with component. If this were a Wii game people would be shouting from the rooftops because it would be the strongest game on offer. And Jimmi would be defending the flaws.

I'd invite you to come play it on my machine, but it's kind of a long trip so I guess you have to take my word for it.

Also love the downloadable content (do they have that for Zelda? ;) ). The new levels are cool and it's neat they're still updating and breathing new life into this launch title.

This game isn't the end all of gaming by any means. But it is a solid, well thought out, well playing RPG for the 360. I'd take it over Zelda any day...mostly because you can become a vampire and have a cattle type farm of humans...who can't like gameplay like that? ;)

Paul

[raggedjimmi]

So what is your system? Even fast PC's get framerate issues. This actually is incredible, it's like,

The non zealots say something about choppy framerates or graphics - they get flame by the zealots who say that these issues simply don't exist. Way to hide from the truth.

My brother actually thought his DVD was damaged when we cleared the cache and he still had framerate problems. And he's not a "pro" gamer or anything like that, he has no PC or bothered with these kind of problems in the past. This does exist.

And since others seem to want to bring this up, (cough *pcypert*), I did not bring up Zelda but since you want too;
This game pales to Zelda. Instead of making the game detailed and removing the bugs they went ahead to make a free roaming game. A badly made one at that. Saints Row plays better and has less problems! I simply don't play games that have glaring bugs (original GTA3 too) because it absolutely brings the game down so many notches for me.
I've yet to come across such bugs in Zelda :) Which I will take any day over western "bigger is better yeeeeaahaw!" RPGs.
Are the side quests as buggy and rushed as the rest of the game? Perhaps the controls are better?

[pcypert]

It's just odd because no one else besides you has had such horrible gameplay experiences. Maybe some slight lags or things at times...but nothing to the level you're experiencing. I've yet to play any game since the PS1 that hasn't had it's glitches or moments. I'm not saying they're not there...but the few I've experienced in Oblivion are waaaayyyy less than most other games I've played.

Take Crackdown...my copy has textureless buildings...I've found ways to spin the character and get texture...carless drivers (just pause the game or get an announcement and come back....the worst is now when I use the rocket launcher it disconnects my wireless controller...that detracts from gameplay. But I can still whoop up with machine guns and kicking and throwing. It's actually forced me to strengthen up my character. So it's flawed, but still fun as hell to play.

Oblivion has nothing on this level. Could this be a PAL thing? I don't really know...maybe my Jap copy of Oblivion is different for whatever reason...but I simply don't get the epic, game degrading bugs that you're getting. And I'm more than comfortable pointing out any bugs that exist. Maybe it's down to the character you chose to play having some bug. I also play in third person not first...so maybe that changes things. Who knows. But you can't disregard all the other happy players...none of whom I'd call Oblivion zealots by any stretch.

None of us were writing up the virtues of Elder Scrolls months before the game came out. None of us were declaring it the system, console, and game to win all months before it came out. None of us come rushing to the forefront any time a negative word is said about the precious (I mean Zelda or Mario or other NES franchise). In fact people have popped in their problems, but said they're not at the level you've experienced. That's all. We're not fanboys. I have no further interest in Elder Scrolls. But they did happen to make a good game. A really solid, well performing, visually nice game.

Paul

[saunders45]

So what is your system? Even fast PC's get framerate issues. This actually is incredible, it's like,

The non zealots say something about choppy framerates or graphics - they get flame by the zealots who say that these issues simply don't exist. Way to hide from the truth.

My brother actually thought his DVD was damaged when we cleared the cache and he still had framerate problems. And he's not a "pro" gamer or anything like that, he has no PC or bothered with these kind of problems in the past. This does exist.

And since others seem to want to bring this up, (cough *pcypert*), I did not bring up Zelda but since you want too;
This game pales to Zelda. Instead of making the game detailed and removing the bugs they went ahead to make a free roaming game. A badly made one at that. Saints Row plays better and has less problems! I simply don't play games that have glaring bugs (original GTA3 too) because it absolutely brings the game down so many notches for me.
I've yet to come across such bugs in Zelda :) Which I will take any day over western "bigger is better yeeeeaahaw!" RPGs.
Are the side quests as buggy and rushed as the rest of the game? Perhaps the controls are better?

By that logic....... Zelda:Twilight Princess is fugly.... and there hasn't been a good one since Link to the Past.....

Don't flame me!!! ;)

[MacRumorUser]

Oblivion has nothing on this level. Could this be a PAL thing?

No the Pal version is identical to the NTSC version - in fact the Pal version isn't really PAL it's repacked NTSC (the cover says PAL60, but my disc has NTSC on it)

[pcypert]

Just trying to find reasons he might be having gameplay different than others. There has to be some reason out there he's getting different gameplay than others...trying to do a benefit of the doubt that he really is experiencing this....because I honestly have yet to with many more hours of game time than him. It's not really my favorite game by a long stretch...but want other readers to get an accurate view of the game.

In fact it's probably my least played game...but in no way because of dropped frames or odd controls or anything else. It's totatlly playable. Just too immense for me at the moment.

Just odd to base an argument on graphics and performance when so many other arguments are based on the exact opposite. Likes to play cards and angles when they're beneficial to him. Why is so much image rapped up in what folks on this forum think about game opinions?

Paul

[saunders45]

Don't know why... but it's not necessarily the dislike of the game that's annoying. Its the fact that we state a different view, based on hundreds of hours of gameplay, and then we become flamers...

It's nothing against Jimmi... He's got more experience with making games than I do. Hell, last time I worked on a Mod was Mandalorian Wars for Dark Forces II: Jedi Knight in 97/98.

[Haoshiro]

So what is your system? Even fast PC's get framerate issues. This actually is incredible, it's like,

The non zealots say something about choppy framerates or graphics - they get flame by the zealots who say that these issues simply don't exist. Way to hide from the truth.

My brother actually thought his DVD was damaged when we cleared the cache and he still had framerate problems. And he's not a "pro" gamer or anything like that, he has no PC or bothered with these kind of problems in the past. This does exist.

And since others seem to want to bring this up, (cough *pcypert*), I did not bring up Zelda but since you want too;
This game pales to Zelda. Instead of making the game detailed and removing the bugs they went ahead to make a free roaming game. A badly made one at that. Saints Row plays better and has less problems! I simply don't play games that have glaring bugs (original GTA3 too) because it absolutely brings the game down so many notches for me.
I've yet to come across such bugs in Zelda :) Which I will take any day over western "bigger is better yeeeeaahaw!" RPGs.
Are the side quests as buggy and rushed as the rest of the game? Perhaps the controls are better?

Nah, you are totally wrong here guy. Actually seems you completely ignored my last post as well.

I don't feel a choppy framerate, seems a good consistent 30 fps at least, and better in dungeons/buildings. There is some hitches/jerks when it's loading things in to the background which I've only noticed when running through the world and the loading is trying to keep up. It does this without showing a loading message most of the time. That's not a framerate problem. It's disc-read access interupting the game.

This game is visually very good as well. Granted I don't really care for the art direction, but what is there is good and marred by some technical issues (grass/foilage not blending very will mid-distance). I'd prefer it if NPCs opened the doors rather then just hearing it and seeing them fade in/out. But I realize from a technical perspective that adds a host of other problems (loading the interior contents so you can see in through the doors, AI getting confused by doors, etc).

I honestly don't understand what you mean by the game having so many "problems" and "bugs", and I've been playing a LONG time.

You obviously have issues with the controls, I'm afraid that is a personal problem and not the games fault. I can control it just fine. Sure, FPS-style combat would be easier on a mouse, but it works fine on the 360 controller.

And walking indoors? Another issue I just don't have, maybe you and thumbsticks just don't get along? That's what it's sounding like. I don't have any issues indoors and I have 100 Speed. The idea of slowing down a players movement indoors is horrible as well, what if you were getting chased by a mob through buildings (as has happened)... oh wow, for some reason I can only WALK. If you need to walk slower you can, by using analog sensitivity - you are the one choosing to run, why not just walk? ... it's easy, you just go slower.

Most of your complaints seem utterly unfounded, as if you formulated a bad opinion from a VERY short play test, and then hop on the forums and debate your ill-found opinions without ever returning to the game for a more sincere experience.

[raggedjimmi]

Most of your complaints seem utterly unfounded, as if you formulated a bad opinion from a VERY short play test, and then hop on the forums and debate your ill-found opinions without ever returning to the game for a more sincere experience.

That's the point, I can't play the game for the bugs.

I like this though. It's like I voice my opinions, thoughts and (albeit short lived) experience with the game and suddenly I've killed baby Jesus. I cleared the cache and the game runs smooth in open areas, choppy when theres foliage around. STILL. I didn't skip your message or whatever. unless the game strangely choses to load only when walking over flowers.
So the power of a tri-cored CPU and super powered GPU can't handle an open world this well? Wake me up next gen I suppose.

I've got an idea- keep trying to tell me how great the game is maybe then I'll start to like it :)

Of course I'm making this all up though. (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=oblivion+360+buggy&meta=)

[MacRumorUser]

So the power of a tri-cored CPU and super powered GPU can't handle an open world this well? Wake me up next gen I suppose.

Oblivion doesnt use the three CPU's. The game is not multi-threaded. ;)

[Haoshiro]

That's the point, I can't play the game for the bugs.

I like this though. It's like I voice my opinions, thoughts and (albeit short lived) experience with the game and suddenly I've killed baby Jesus. I cleared the cache and the game runs smooth in open areas, choppy when theres foliage around. STILL. I didn't skip your message or whatever. unless the game strangely choses to load only when walking over flowers.
So the power of a tri-cored CPU and super powered GPU can't handle an open world this well? Wake me up next gen I suppose.

I've got an idea- keep trying to tell me how great the game is maybe then I'll start to like it :)

Of course I'm making this all up though. (http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=oblivion+360+buggy&meta=)

It's not about that you've voiced your opinions, it's about commiting the eternal gaming review sin: judging a game before giving it a "real" chance (this will very depending on the game, but for an RPG it's probably a minimum of 5-10 hours) and overlooking any positives and only focusing on the negative, especially in a game that has so much positive to talk about.

I'm sure you could say you weren't really reviewing the game, but a review tends to be someone's personal experience and opinions of a game.

I took a look at that link, and following up to the first link, was this: http://www.elderscrolls.com/downloads/updates_patchnotes6.htm#5

Perhaps you ARE playing a different game then I am, the one that doesn't have any official updates.

That might explain your issues with snail-paced flowers, as I've gone on plenty of herb-hunting adventures with not problems at all... no slowing down, just flower-picking bliss.

Now I've encountered a couple bugs now and then, some random occurences... at least once the game froze on loading, that might have been the 360 though... also, once I was in town and half the NPCs were frozen in place, no animation or movement. I left the town and kept playing, awhile later I went back and everything was fine... quite strange. And the bad transitions from high (up close) to low (far away) detail is definitely annoying when it's very noticeable.

But not being able to go 5 minutes without a hitch or lag or framerate drop? That's not the game I play... like I said, it's pretty much smooth except for the in-game background loading.

I also timed my loading times, most of the time it was <5 seconds, although when leaving big areas or fast-travelling from city to city did get as high as 20-25 seconds.

[saunders45]

\I like this though. It's like I voice my opinions, thoughts and (albeit short lived) experience with the game and suddenly I've killed baby Jesus. I cleared the cache and the game runs smooth in open areas, choppy when theres foliage around. STILL. I didn't skip your message or whatever. unless the game strangely choses to load only when walking over flowers.
So the power of a tri-cored CPU and super powered GPU can't handle an open world this well? Wake me up next gen I suppose.

I've got an idea- keep trying to tell me how great the game is maybe then I'll start to like it :)

It's not that you voiced you opinions and we hated you for it. It's that we suggested a few things to try/reasons why your game may be playing different than our combined experiences, and we are suddenly in denial as crazed fanboys, flaming you for attacking our beloved franchise.

Was the system on Live and was the game updated?

[ericsthename]

I've played Oblivion as much as I've played any game, and I can vouch for the fact that it's a slow moving process.

I had no experience with the elder scrolls before this game, nor RPG's. I decided to rent the game first, to see if I liked it. Initially, I couldn't make up my mind, becuase of my inexperience I was finding it difficult to determine what I needed to do in a world of such scope and magnitude.

Eventually I ended up buying a copy and plugging away until I understood better the mechanics of RPG's as well as the nuances of The Elder Scrolls.

Since then I can say that I've barely scratched the surface of this game. No, it doesn't have unbelievable, incredible textures etc. etc. but the sheer size and variety of things you can encounter in this game is incredible.... from the snowy mountains to the sweeping valleys and water bodies all the way to caves and mines! The architecture is markedly different in each city, and the day/night/weather cycles give the game a living, breathing atmosphere.

Add to that the fact that the Oblivion world is another world unto itself and I can see easily how this game came to be game of the year. Imagine how much time went into crafting the story/characters?

Yeah, theres no doubt about it, Oblivion is the real deal... you don't have to like it to appreciate it. In fact, I would compare it to a car: you can easily remark a well-built, incredible piece of machinery, but that doesn't mean that you will declare it the best auto of all time...

Nevertheless, to say that Oblivion is a weak game would be to call a very large majority of hardcore gamers a bunch of liers.

[saunders45]

I'm sure there are many who think SuperSmashBros to be infintile button masher, whilst others will claim it to be a refined and challenging brawler.

Nonsense... It's a wonderful brawler... and I'm not a Jigglypuff whore.;)

[MacRumorUser]

Nonsense... It's a wonderful brawler... and I'm not a Jigglypuff whore.;)

What you and Jiggly get upto in the comfort of your own home is nobodies business but yours ;) :D

[saunders45]

What you and Jiggly get upto in the comfort of your own home is nobodies business but yours ;) :D

Har...har...:)

[ijimk]

I for one loved this game. I gave some of the local boys some support as Besthesda Studios is near me.:D

[pcypert]

I'm all for folks having different gaming opinions. It's just when one person is overly vocal and happens to support a four hour marble game before he's even played it then suddenly is bashing a game that is on 90% of folks games of the year list is just a bit iffy. I mean you can spend almost as much time getting a character created and playing the first main quest as that entire marble game and you're just scratching the surface of Oblivion.

Paul

[raggedjimmi]

So the moral of the story kids is to not speak out about things you don't like, especially if it's popular! And that game length is directly related to game fun! If that's true then GoW is approximately 10x less fun than Oblivion.

[saunders45]

So the moral of the story kids is to not speak out about things you don't like, especially if it's popular! And that game length is directly related to game fun! If that's true then GoW is approximately 10x less fun than Oblivion.

No... The moral is that those of us who like the game apparently don't know what we're talking about, that the game is trash, and that we are in denial of such.


Answser me this, if I were to play Zelda Twilight Princess for less than an hour, and said it was unplayable due to poor pacing/controls/graphics.... What would be your response?

[raggedjimmi]

If the engine were buggy I'd sit beside everyone else and say "the engine is buggy". But it isn't.
I've said a million times in a million other threads - I don't play buggy games. Commercial, independant, Nintendo, Sega, Sony, last gen, this gen.

[Haoshiro]

Now if only your issues with Oblivion were just a buggy engine. Every game will have some bugs, over time they often even get documented in FAQs, etc.

Oblivion has been patched already. I'd expect you (of all people) to know what a "bug" is. Performance spikes or background loading slowdowns aren't bugs. Controls you don't like aren't bugs. You're inability to control a character indoors is not a bug.

My experience with the game has been entirely after the patches were issued, so I can make no statements about what problems it might have had before they were fixed.

But the game as it stands now is not "buggy."

Oblivion is a great game, and an excellent RPG. But it's a real RPG and some people just won't be able to get into that. Just like some people will hate simulation racers, but love arcade racers.

If it's a genre somebody doesn't like, well that is their preference, it doesn't make the game bad, nor does it make the game "buggy."

[darkwing]

Now if only your issues with Oblivion were just a buggy engine. Every game will have some bugs, over time they often even get documented in FAQs, etc.

Oblivion has been patched already. I'd expect you (of all people) to know what a "bug" is. Performance spikes or background loading slowdowns aren't bugs. Controls you don't like aren't bugs. You're inability to control a character indoors is not a bug.

Depends on the system. If a heart monitoring machine misses drops samples is that not a bug? I know that's not a fair comparison, but take Resistance. Resistance promises 60 fps and that it never drops below that. If it does, won't that make it a bug?

It really depends on the system. If a video game system is supposed to put out 30 fps on a tv, it should do that. Anything less is bad programming. Like all those old Nintendo/SNES games that would slow down if too much is going on. It might not be called a "bug" because it's designed to do that, but it sure is bad programming.

[saunders45]

If the engine were buggy I'd sit beside everyone else and say "the engine is buggy". But it isn't.
I've said a million times in a million other threads - I don't play buggy games. Commercial, independant, Nintendo, Sega, Sony, last gen, this gen.

Did you play the unpatched version?

[MacRumorUser]

g? I know that's not a fair comparison, but take Resistance. Resistance promises 60 fps and that it never drops below that. If it does, won't that make it a bug?

But its not 60fps. It's locked at 30... or did I miss the point of your analogy :o

[e²Studios]

But its not 60fps. It's locked at 30... or did I miss the point of your analogy :o

I think he meant 30fps, I also think you knew this :p

[MacRumorUser]

I think he meant 30fps, I also think you knew this :p

I might have had an inclination to that affect ;) :D

[Sutekidane]

Um, for the record, I have seen enemies pop in all the time while I'm on the horse in Zelda. It's more smooth in Zelda, then it is in Oblivion however. It's called clipping distance and nearly all games have it.

[Haoshiro]

Um, for the record, I have seen enemies pop in all the time while I'm on the horse in Zelda. It's more smooth in Zelda, then it is in Oblivion however. It's called clipping distance and nearly all games have it.

Sometimes I think playing games is easier/more enjoyable when you have some knowledge of the medium such as you describe.

There are things in games that other people notice and have issue with that I don't, simply because I comprehend what is going on and why on a more technical level. That of course can have the opposite effect as well, making issues stand out more.

But for Oblivion, I recognize there will be clipping issues, pauses for background loading, etc... especially considering the scope of the game. Sure I wish it didn't happen and realize it would be smoother if such things didn't exist, but don't expect that to happen for many years when hardware performance is so high programmers don't even have to think about it.

Every time I play Oblivion now I am more sensitive because of raggedjimmi's comments, I pay much closer attention to possible problems, lag, pop-in, etc. And honestly, it makes me notice more and more how little problems there are, my gameplay is always extremely smooth. I ran around attacking guards in Anvil for a nice test... 4 guards after me, peasants, etc and no slowdown - it all ran very fast and without a hitch, and this battle raged all over town with more guards coming in all the time.

So pardon me for crying foul when someone starts putting down a game for specific issues that seem to be very rare and mostly limited to his "play test" - I'm trying to reproduce these reported issues and "bugs" but just can't.

[saunders45]

I've got about 55 hours in, but I havent noticed "unplayable" bugs with the game. I agree that when you understand the limitations that designers have, it does make up for the occasional hiccup or glitch.

[pcypert]

That person that said characters pop up in TW better be careful he might have just unleashed the beast....careful with TW = the precious ;)

Paul

[raggedjimmi]

That person that said characters pop up in TW better be careful he might have just unleashed the beast....careful with TW = the precious ;)

Paul

Oh no come on, how ironic! :)

I post a thread talking about, heavens no, negative points of Oblivion. And look at the backlash ;)
I think theres a saying about pots and kettles.

[saunders45]

Oh no come on, how ironic! :)

I post a thread talking about, heavens no, negative points of Oblivion. And look at the backlash ;)
I think theres a saying about pots and kettles.

Oh come on...........

It's done to prove a point.

Oblivion - Character pops in --- Game Sucks.
Zelda - Character pops in --- It's all about gameplay anyways....

They're calling you out for a double standard.

[Haoshiro]

Heh, now he's just trolling his own thread... lol.

Ah well, I'm done. There is no discussion here, just stubborn ignorance for the sake of controversy.

[e²Studios]

HAh well, I'm done. There is no discussion here, just stubborn ignorance for the sake of controversy.

That would also describe 90% of the threads in the games forum! :D

[MacRumorUser]

Heh, now he's just trolling his own thread... lol.

Ah well, I'm done. There is no discussion here, just stubborn ignorance for the sake of controversy.

you cant rationalize the irrational, so it's not worth trying. :)

[saunders45]

That would also describe 90% of the threads in the games forum! :D
Nuh-uh!!!;)

[odaiwai]

I've been playing the game for a while: Level 44 Battlemage, about 190 quests completed.

I've been playing version 1.5.11 on a home built 2.0Ghz dual core Windows box, with a 7600GS card and 2GB RAM. So, a pretty solid but mid-range gaming rig. Somewhere between a 20" and 24" iMac, I guess. (My G4 Mac Mini isn't going to touch this game...)

It's been pretty smooth overall, with a bit of a reduction in framerate in heavily wooded/enemied areas, which is probably down to my graphics card.

My main complaint would actually be the voice acting! (Yes, yes, I know, Sean Bean, Patrick Stewart, yadda, yadda.) I just wish that no character, however minor, changed voices in the same conversation.

I've been playing Role Playing Games since the early 1980's and my first RPG on a computer was Wizardry on the Apple ][. This one is pretty good. It might even be the best.

[2nyRiggz]

That would also describe 90% of the threads in the games forum! :D

Indeed. We got to be fair about games here if we consider ourselves hardcore gamers....make judgements on the quality of the product...if its not for our system of choice then we shouldn't try to destroy its credit just cause.

Lets be fair and rate these games fair......and on that small note I would also tell you that Oblivion is not a bad game at all and this type of game is not what I play but from my time with it I've grown to like it.



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