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View Full Version : Truthfully, how many REAL media/science companies use macs?


Raiwong
May 30, 2003, 06:20 PM
Sorry if this is stupid, but I'd always liked to question the claim of that alot of media/science people use macs. As far as I know we could all be just believing in nothing. There are many people who CLAIM they do video editing in fact they are just a pc/mac geek and did no major work.

Its hard to describe what I mean. Its like all of the people talking about macs say they are largely used in such such industries, but there is no real proof. Even pixar or light and magic doesn't use macs.

As far as I know we base our claims on on what apple claims, that macs are a industry standard for media. Ok firstly I know nearly all 3D animation companies don't use as the larger graphics card isn't even available on the macs, and e.g 3D Studio Max and other discreet programs gain top priority in the PC/other industry. After Effects is crap on macs, discreet combustion is about the only thing we get, all the other effects tools are unavailable for macs. I'm not too sure about shake, maybe someone can lecture me on that. My mac example is Lotr but thats a rumor from apple as well.

Ok I work in the science industry (biotechnology - skin stem cell) in asia and I know of nobody who uses macs for science, our backbone-mainframes might be run by UNIX for sequencing but no macs, heck the network is incomptable for some odd reason with my ibook, as yet the most useful program on my ibook is excel.

I don't know about america science labs, but over here in asia macs are very rare. I think I heard genetech uses macs only a rumor.

If somebody has a known personal experience please put it here, it be nice to assemble a list of companies that actually use macs for they're work in the. Please say it only if you have seen it, not if you've heard it from somewhere else or if your simply a mac geek who pretends to be a proffesional.

However the validity of the results is questionable, as the main proffesionals are unlikely to be geeks which search these forums anyway. To me it seems so far that most people own macs not for industrial use, but more like a personal novelty item, and perhaps companies use hybrids, and let people choose what they want etc etc. I'd assume the industry is mostly windows now.

VoodooDaddy
May 30, 2003, 07:25 PM
They use them in Hollywood from time to time. You ever see the movie "One Hour Photo"??

There was a Mac with the cinema display as a prop in the movie.
:D

You make alot of good points. IDK any answers though.

patrick0brien
May 30, 2003, 07:28 PM
-Raiwong

I don't have the quantity numbers, but Powermacs with FCP are standard issue for remote reporters at CNN.

Also, you must be experienced in FCP to get an editor job there.

Abstract
May 30, 2003, 07:53 PM
I'd assume you're right. ;)

While Apple's marketshare is around 3%, I'd think that in media, the percentage is probably much better, maybe 10% or so. That's 3 times higher than market share, but they're probably still way behind. Even the media need to save money on equipment. Why pay 3 times more for a machine that isn't as powerful as a Wintel machine. And I realize that there are going to be Apple fanatics babbling on about how it's what you can do with your machine thats important, and that this should be how they define the word "powerful" (ie: not with a simple CPU speed reference), but try telling that to companies who need to pay for these machines.

My guess is 10% of professional media, and even less people in science. Many computer programs used in science are very very specific, and written just for one person or maybe a few dozen companies in the world. Do you think anybody would write the program to run on Apple computers when the market is so small to begin with?

Raiwong
May 30, 2003, 08:44 PM
Abstract the programs are usually written inhouse by people I don't really know. They called them bioinformatics programmers. Oh and 1 hour photo was good movie.

I think the unix in OS X can be used for science research.

In addition in education, schools who use macs are getting less. When I was young many schools had macs now its just all dells or compaqs, perhaps they don't see the value in emac? or maybe they think that they want students to learn a system which they will use in the real world.

Don't we hate microsoft's monopolistics moves :(

dkeninitz
May 30, 2003, 09:07 PM
I have about 30 science and engineering companies as clients, and I know of only one that uses Macs. A few use Silicon Grapichs and/or Sun stuff and the rest are PC shops.

OTOH, my church uses a few Macs. The senior pastor is strictly a Mac guy, and the worship and programming pastor uses Macs for video editing, desktop publishing and audio production. Everyone else on the staff uses PC's.

Like an earlier poster, I too have noticed that schools seem to be moving to PC's. At my kids elementary and middle schools, the computer labs are filled with Dells and Compaq's; not a Mac in sight.

pseudobrit
May 30, 2003, 09:16 PM
Media rely on Macs a lot more than 10%. I'd say most publishing relys on them, which is why Mac is pissed at Quark for being so late with a OSX version of XPress. Hollywood uses them often, whether for scriptwriting or editing, and most places will have at least one sitting around.

Many higher education places will have Macs scattered amongst the PCs. My mother is an elementary teacher and Macs are the only computers in her building.

Oops, forgot audio editing -- lots of all-comp audio work is done on Macs

VoodooDaddy
May 30, 2003, 09:26 PM
Originally posted by pseudobrit
Media rely on Macs a lot more than 10%. I'd say most publishing relys on them, which is why Mac is pissed at Quark for being so late with a OSX version of XPress. Hollywood uses them often, whether for scriptwriting or editing, and most places will have at least one sitting around.

Oops, forgot audio editing -- lots of all-comp audio work is done on Macs

this is what the thread starter did not want to hear. He wants first hand experience, not "hollywood uses them alot, most publishing uses them." We've all heard these things, he wants first hand knowledge of where Mac are actually being used, not just hearsay.

Alte22a
May 30, 2003, 09:47 PM
Hi, use to work for a music video production company here in London. The whole office including the receptionist was all macs. Only the server(?) was NT. While working there I have visited other post production companies and they were using PM to edit stuff.

On the science side, does a hospital count? Last winter while I was out working in Tokyo. Friend of had a bit of a heavy night, ended in Hiroo Emergency Room. While I was sitting waiting for my friend I notice the Docs have the latest PM with I guess 17" display sitting on the side. So to my experience alot of places run MACs. I am a photographer and alot of the retouch houses here in London use MACs. either I am lucky or MACs are popular in photo/media business and Tokyo hospitals... :rolleyes:

patrick0brien
May 30, 2003, 10:17 PM
-Raiwong

Thought of some more.

TribalDDB of DDB Needham advertising.

Leo Burnett Advertising agency.

Tribune Media, owner of WGN, The Chicago Tribune and The L.A. Times.

Some tidbits:
Lake County Press.
Argus Press.

patrick0brien
May 30, 2003, 10:18 PM
-Raiwong

Thought of some more.

TribalDDB of DDB Needham advertising.

Leo Burnett Advertising agency.

Tribune Media, owner of WGN, The Chicago Tribune and The L.A. Times.

Some tidbits:
Lake County Press.
Argus Press.

tjwett
May 31, 2003, 12:23 AM
I can't speak for the Science industry but I've worked in Audio Post Production, Music Composition, Video Post and Editing, and Recording Studios and I've NEVER used a PC in-house. Not once. Maybe a secretary had one here and some 3D people here but no one I know works on them regularly, no one. A friend of mine works at NBC Studios and they are currently switching from Quantel machines to Macs for the broadcast graphics work, they could've just as easily went PC but didn't. It's just a given that you use a Mac for this work. Apple has always been the industry-standard for this type of work. Not so much in Europe, but in the U.S. it's hard to find a studio not using Macs. OS X? Well, that's another story.

LethalWolfe
May 31, 2003, 01:01 AM
I'm an editor, and occasional shooter, and probably 9 times outta 10 you walk into a post house you'll see people cutting w/Mac hardware running either FCP or a flavor of Avid. Off the top of my head I can only think of two times I've gone into some place (a couple of local news stations) and not scene the editors using Macs. One place was using a Meida 100 (not sure which version) and the other was running Avid DS which is PC only.

I know people are using non-Mac solutions because many choices are out there but I just hardly ever seen them. I think most PC solutions hit around the prosumer and low end professional level and are used mostly by event videographers, people doing corporate/industrial work and companies that have in-house post/production facilities. Basically people that are working in "self-contained" environments that are not producing media which will be broadcast or shown in theaters.

If you are looking for hard numbers I don't have any. All I can relate to you is personal experience.


Lethal

Doctor Q
May 31, 2003, 01:09 AM
Disney is a very Mac-oriented company. I know from trying to sell them software and from a friend who works for The Mouse.

Raidiant
May 31, 2003, 01:10 AM
Well i'm glad to know that there are a few companies using macs. Is it me or people who find macs find them all the time, and people who can't find mac users can't find any?! I am assuming that this says that certain areas tend to have more macs..

But isn't it kind of abnormal for a person to have never seen a PC? Thats just odd like a anomalie in information.

Many geeks have bought macs because they think macs are for video editing and graphics but is the low list of major companies suggest that macs are no longer treated as the best graphics machines (and are they?), so that would in conclusion that many of us may have blindly followed this chain of beliefs without real proof, while slowly all the people are switching from macs in the media industry and yet we still today believe that macs are an industry standard.

Interestingly someone mentioned tokyo hospital, I wonder how did they get the programs running. Are you sure? or was it like a doctors record machine, mosts medical programs run on PCs.

I think Asia is a large market for Apple to exploit, there are many people who never used computers in China ( I live in Hong Kong) Japan and Hong Kong care about device looks more then anyone.

They are not doing anything to help, we get the slowest support, least updates. Sherlock doesn't even work here, we get the products much later then you guys. No wonder no one around here is using macs.

Funny if this was true, then it means the media companies are not whats keeping apple. Its us the blind geek followers which have kept apple alive, and we have not noticed how this belief of emptyness has indeed kept apple because we believe that we are buying media making machinese.

Raidiant
May 31, 2003, 01:19 AM
arguably what controls all is the pure economic basics or price = demand.

Some people buy expensive things, but admit go for price, the lower the price the better for the same object. This theory applies much more for a bad economy, but the 3% mac share shows this already.

Hence apple sells emacs and ibooks more then every other computer, hence PM sales lag, and so does PB. I have a friend who is an apple reseller and he says that the cheap value products go off like a rocket and he has only sold 2 powerbook 17" so far, while many 12" pb, much more ibooks and the trend goes on. The only reason powerbooks seem to sell well is because people like to talk about their expensive product, and also apple wants to make it seem like for a moment everyone is buying powerbooks, so they don't talk about ibook sales.

On the same trend, apple loses to many other compeptitors because of price, not only the hardware but people considering a mac especially coporate need to consider the software too and thats means a switch of every software when talking about 100's of machines if becomes costy.

Just imagine supply a company with crappy dell laptops, or powerbooks both can do the same stuff. dell and it runs all the companies current software too.

The 970 will hopefully pound intel and make powermacs worthy again.

Raidiant
May 31, 2003, 01:22 AM
interestingly I have not gotten flamed yet.

Doctor Q
May 31, 2003, 01:24 AM
Originally posted by Raidiant
interestingly I have not gotten flamed yet.Maybe everyone else went to bed and you'll feel the heat in the morning. Good night.

LethalWolfe
May 31, 2003, 01:48 AM
Originally posted by Raidiant
But isn't it kind of abnormal for a person to have never seen a PC? Thats just odd like a anomalie in information.

Many geeks have bought macs because they think macs are for video editing and graphics but is the low list of major companies suggest that macs are no longer treated as the best graphics machines (and are they?), so that would in conclusion that many of us may have blindly followed this chain of beliefs without real proof, while slowly all the people are switching from macs in the media industry and yet we still today believe that macs are an industry standard.



Speaking strictly about the editing of content for broadcast and/or theatrical release seeing a PC (as in windows) based NLE would be an relatively rare thing. And when you get into professional post production the "price war" is different than what it is on a consumer and even prosumer level.

I'm going to look at Avid as my example. Yes, the PC workstations they use are faster than the current gen of PowerMacs but they are not cheaper. The PC workstation that Avid is currently using (Compaq I think) costs about the same as it's PM counter part. And whether you purchase a PC based Media Composer or a Mac based Media Composer the price is still going to be the same. So for the end user a PC will get you a faster machine, but not a cheaper one. And just from unscientific "watercooler" chatter w/my industry peers the PC based Avids tend to be more problematic<sp?> than their Mac based counter parts. I will tell you w/out a doubt that people would rather have a slower but stable NLE than one that is less stable but faster.

Of course what is happening now is that instead upgrading their ageing Avids with new Avids post houses are choosing to save 10's of thousands of dollars per machine and are switching over to FCP. Currently there is nothing (Mac or PC based) that can touch the price/performance ratio FCP has. Avid's Media Composer Adrenaline closes the gap but it will be still be around $10k more than a comparible FCP system ($25k vs $15k).


Lethal

pseudobrit
May 31, 2003, 09:18 AM
Originally posted by VoodooDaddy
this is what the thread starter did not want to hear. He wants first hand experience, not "hollywood uses them alot, most publishing uses them." We've all heard these things, he wants first hand knowledge of where Mac are actually being used, not just hearsay.

That's the problem with putting your finger on it; a lot of the work in media is freelance or independent.

5300cs
May 31, 2003, 09:37 AM
Interesting. I was teaching in a hospital just this last week on Thursday night, and walk through the office, I saw Macs all over the place. Mostly G3s and a few old iBooks. I asked the students about them and they said most of the doctors used them to create slides. The students themselves used them also, though still on OS 9 (as were the offices.)
Still, it was a very pleasant surprise and made me feel more at home.:)

This is just my experience in that hospital, I can't speak for the rest of the city/prefecture/country.

question fear
May 31, 2003, 10:11 AM
To jump in here, at Brandeis University, we have macs and pcs in the comp labs...id say its roughly 60/40 pc/mac but still. enough so mac faithful and pc people can use any computer clusters.
With the exception of our science quad, which is almost entirely mac based. I know two or three science majors who are planning on buying macs because the software they are using in their labs is mac based, and they all love the powermacs they just got...so while i dont know the specifics, i know they were in bio and that they loved the lab's macs. so theres a little more proof of the science/mac connection.
also, sort of on/sort of off topic, i bought my mac because i liked os x and because the ibook was actually cheaper than the other notebooks i was looking at. I was thinking if i stayed with windows about going with a fujitsu, but to get the same amt of ram, built in 802.11b, ms office, a three year warranty with some sort of onsite (i figured onsite or something similar was akin to having applecare and bringing the ibook to a store) it would have topped out at well over $2000...and with ms office and everything else, my ibook scraped by at under that. so it was a combo of os x being so attractive and the pricing being within my range. and I am not a geek (at least not a computer geek) but i will admit to wanting to be one...i figure once i get more settled with macos i am going to try to learn more about unix...
anyhow.
yes.
macs in science labs.
yes.
-carly

gottfrid
May 31, 2003, 10:42 AM
well, I run a webagency. we use about 10-12 macs, 3-4 linux and som wintel for browser-testing and stuff.

also we do a lot of hardcore, unix based developing in C++, mysql and all other cool GPL style technologies.

also, I would say that about 50% of the ad-agencies I visited during my years use only macs and the rest have a blend

(btw, posting from sweden)

Abstract
May 31, 2003, 03:05 PM
Originally posted by Raidiant
Is it me or people who find macs find them all the time, and people who can't find mac users can't find any?! I am assuming that this says that certain areas tend to have more macs..


Yes, that sounds strange to me too. At my university, there are no Macs in the computer labs, only Wintel machines. There is a single Mac computer lab that I know of --- maybe 12-15 old Macs. It was in the Biology building, but I can't think of any other Macs on campus. I don't think physics people (students and Profs) use Macs --- I'm a Physics student. Actually, I know of one Biology student who uses a 12" iBook, and one Physics prof who uses one of the first, ugly, coloured iMacs.

I'm surprised that hospitals use Macs. I'm sure its just a coincidence. There aren't many advantages for a doctor, nurse, or receptionist to use a Mac. Most doctors and receptionists mainly use a computer to look up patient information. However, anybody who knows about hospitals understands that most large hospitals are there for teaching and research purposes. This is why hospitals are soooo big, and yet the parts of the hospital available for patients and visitors seems very small. There are lots of departments in a hospital that are used for purposes that nobody will ever fully understand--- doctors separated in different areas to work on their own research. There is a lot of research in pathology, microbiology, medical physics, oncology, nuclear medicine, etc, that may or may not use Macs. I worked in the Medical Physics department at a hospital in England, and not a Mac in the department, nor in the main part of the hospital that deals with patients. Same goes for another hospital I worked at.

Raiwong
May 31, 2003, 04:34 PM
lol, biologists like macs? maybe thats why I have an ibook. I guess I can conclude the thread now, even though the people talking here would not be representative of the amount of mac companies, because this thread simply filters all the people who doesn't know companies which uses macs, but at least the thread proves that macs are still used alot in the media industry. I guess the science industry isn't too into macs.

When you think about it in terms of practicality macs rarely hold advantages as a industrial computer, because of imcomptability, speed and so on, but no doubtly they make the best personal computers, I think alot of industrial workers choose to use a mac personally over a PC.

Schiffi
May 31, 2003, 04:56 PM
Well, the university that I will be attending in the fall only works with Macs in the Arts building. Though video work using Adobe Premiere is quite sub-par due to a little audio sync problem I've been having. In addition the Quicktime Capture plugin takes the longest time to load! I think QT has something to do with Premiere's problems though.

I admit that Photoshop is a little more responsive in OSX than XP.

BrittasMac
Jun 1, 2003, 06:58 PM
The Jet Propulsion Lab in Pasadena, CA makes extensive use of Macintoshes. Aside from JPL they are in widespread use at Caltech.

alphaq619
Jun 1, 2003, 08:40 PM
Im a mech. engineering student and one of my professors uses macs. His lab consists of 2 Powermac G4s, 2 Powerbooks, and an iBook all networked together. He specializes in robotic design. I asked him and says he uses macs mainly for OSX and Unix. I also work on campus at the bookstore and I know that all of our signage, advertising (print and video), and our website are all made on macs.

crackpip
Jun 1, 2003, 09:45 PM
The physics department at my university has quite a few more macs than pcs in their main computer lab, and there are a significant number of professors who have macs in their offices (I don't think its a majority but I think at least 30%).

The Earth science dept, which I am currently enrolled in, has a mac lab and a lab running freeBSD, and half of the professors in the atmospheric side run macs. The one geophysics professor that I know uses macs for his desktop (although his earth model runs on a small cluster of bsd machines).

In addition, I took a couple of upper-level fluids classes from the Mechanical Engineering dept here, and the prof. was a mac user.

Also we've had a couple of NASA scientists visit our department, they were mac users.

I've had friends and students tell me that the creative arts dept is almost exclusively mac.

Supposedly, people with my kind of training are in short supply, so hopefully I'll be able to leverage my demand for a mac workstation/laptop in my future job environment.

crackpip

friendlyghost
Jun 2, 2003, 12:26 AM
MTV uses tons of macs.