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View Full Version : 533 (Single) G4 Outpacing New 733 G4


MacRumors
Aug 13, 2001, 10:09 AM
MacSpeedZone has just posted some rather surprisingbenchmark results (http://www.macspeedzone.com/frames2000/performanceedge.shtml), showing the relative speed of the new 733MHz G4 Quicksilver vs. the older single-CPU 533MHz G4. In almost all of the tests, the 533 outpaced the new 733. This speed can clearly be attributed to the inclusion of an L3 cache on the 533 as well as the shorter pipeline (which translates to greater performance/cycle) in the CPU of the 533. A bit shocking, we'd say.

evildead
Aug 13, 2001, 12:18 PM
Thats good info for people thinking of getting a new 733. I just ordered a 867 Quicsilver. Any one know how it benches? Should have I just hunted down a dual 533 insted?

blakespot
Aug 13, 2001, 01:10 PM
Well, this makes the decision easier for those who were thinking of picking up a dual-533, wondering how it would stand up to a 733...


blakespot

menoinjun
Aug 13, 2001, 01:52 PM
hellz yeah!! I knew I made the right decision with the dual 533.

-Pete

anonybob
Aug 13, 2001, 02:05 PM
You can easily substitute the 867 (w/ L3 cache) as a BTO on the 733

blakespot
Aug 13, 2001, 02:17 PM
Sure for $300. (Or $900 for dual 800 upgrade!)


blakespot

matze
Aug 13, 2001, 03:08 PM
most of the tests are disk-related, so the slower disk (5400rpm) in the 733 G4 ("old 533G4 HD 7200rpm) accounts mostly for the slower performance (or did they unstuff files form and to a ram-disk???)

Makosuke
Aug 13, 2001, 04:37 PM
Those stats make DP533 users like me happy, but I'm actually rather skeptical (and the disk speed obviously made a big difference in several of the operations). The operations they listed do seem like ones that favor the cache, but according to this BareFeats (whose numbers I tend to trust) article, the new 733 is slower than the cached old one, but not as slow as a DP533, and a lot more in line with what you'd expect:

http://www.barefeats.com/pm01.html

agent302
Aug 13, 2001, 04:52 PM
umm, the 533 doesn't have an L3 cache. It has 1 MB backside L2 running at 2:1, as opposed to the new 733s on chip 256k L2 running at full processor speed

MrMacMan
Aug 13, 2001, 09:08 PM
intresting. 733 vs 533. lol Does the L3 change the speed THAT MUCH??

Kela
Aug 14, 2001, 02:22 AM
I agree with the tests at barefeats. How is it possible that Steve would make the 733 slower than the 533?. The people at Mspeedzone are just owners of 533 machines and hence want to highlight its performance. Look at that one stupid statistic where the POWERBOOK G4/400 is actually faster than the POWERBOOK G4/500!! HAAHAHAH!

synp
Aug 14, 2001, 04:06 AM
I'm not upgrading my old B&W any time soon. In most tests the speed advantage of any other computer was less than twofold, and only in one test was the advantage more than threefold.

Kela
Aug 14, 2001, 05:14 AM
If mac user thought like me. Apple = SHutdown. I would recommend anyone thinking of investing in a G4 to wait. Wait till Q2 (about March 2002) and see the G5 in action. Invest the 3 grand in a G5 since it will be better in every way. If you have a G3 faster than 333MHz, youve got a decent computer.

blackpeter
Aug 14, 2001, 02:43 PM
Look, at the end of the day if you own ANY of the many G4's you are in a class of computer users above all others. But I can understand the rush to prove the 533 a worthy competitor against the newer (sexier) Quicksilver models. I am the proud father of a G4 533 who is barely 4 months old. It is my first Mac and I love it so, but I admit to suffering from Quicksilver envy soon after my first peek at one in the Mac Store. When I bought my Mac I accepted the premium price because I was convinced that Apple was selling me a premium product (still am actually). But to see this new sleeker - faster 733 G4 that's priced $500 less than mine ruined my fun. It made my new speed demon feel like an old (overpriced) dinosaur.

However - Apple did cut a few corners to allow it's 733's to make their shocking debut. And clearly these changes take away from the processing bump, pacing the low end Quicksilver barely above (and in most cases below) the low end Velocity Engine models. I've played with the 733 for a while now, and YES - it's true - the 'feel' I get from running Final Cut and Photoshop on my friend's 733 is sluggier than my 533 (with identical RAM configs). Scientific? Hardly... but it's one Mac user's experience. Take it for what you will. Does it help me to justify the extra expense of my old machine? It doesn't hurt... ;)

john123
Aug 14, 2001, 03:13 PM
The best way to consider computers -- both what's out there and what you own -- is to think in terms of cycles. There will always be cycles of upgrades, and that is NOT what you should really be concerned with. Something bigger and better will always come out; that's the nature of the industry.

The more important cycle to consider is a personal one: how mcuh work do you do on your computer, how intensive is it, and how much money do you have? Those three questions essentially determine a TIME component as to how frequently you should upgrade your machine. For casual users, the product span might just be 3-4 years; casual users who owned a first generation Power Mac might have justified the purchase of one of the new G3s when they debuted. Those same computers might still have another year left in them before casual users should upgrade.

Other users should upgrade more frequently -- perhaps every 18 months or so. The point is that you, as the user, should decide how OFTEN you will plan to upgrade. Sure, if there is a new product you expect to be waiting in the wings, procrastinate a few months -- but otherwise, set a date and don't bemoan the introduction of new products. You'll be a lot happier if you think in those terms.

syoung6164
Aug 14, 2001, 09:14 PM
I couldn't have said it better.You never truly be a happy or content if you don't live by those terms.If you see something you like and it fits your needs and you can afford it ,go for it.Cause they'll always be working on something bigger and better

ManOfMoss
Aug 15, 2001, 07:15 PM
I have three computers in mind but I am not sure which one i should choose..

The first is the 733 mhz G4 quicksilver
The second is the G4 466mhz powermac and
The third is the 600mhz Imac

Based on pricing and over-all performance, which computer would you suggest I purchase?

Which would you argue is the best machine?

Thanks

john123
Aug 15, 2001, 07:34 PM
Originally posted by ManOfMoss
I have three computers in mind but I am not sure which one i should choose..

The first is the 733 mhz G4 quicksilver
The second is the G4 466mhz powermac and
The third is the 600mhz Imac

Based on pricing and over-all performance, which computer would you suggest I purchase?

Which would you argue is the best machine?

Thanks

What do you wanna use it for? That's the key question....anyway, if you care just about pure performance, the 733 is probably your best bet. Especially if you're thinking toward the future...

Makosuke
Aug 15, 2001, 08:35 PM
ManOfMoss:
I definitely wouldn't take this to mean that a 533 is inherently better than a 733--I'd certainly take a 733 if all other factors were equal. But, if speed isn't terribly important to you and the 533 is cheapter, then it might well be worth it to go that route; it all depends on the prices, your budget, and just how much you really need the extra bit of speed.

In general, that's always an important consideration; the newest, fastest Mac is always the coolest, but a lot of people don't really need it. If the price and all in one form factor of an iMac seems tempting to you, and you don't need massive AltiVec speed (do you run Photoshop a lot or rip massive amounts of MP3s?), then go for the iMac. If you'd like some expansion options but are on a budget, then the G4 466 is a good option (note that in a lot of operations it'll actually be slower than the iMac 600). And, if you've got a few more bucks or you want some expansion options and wouldn't mind the extra punch, then the new 733s really aren't a bad deal (look cooler, too).

In any case, you really can't loose, as long as you don't look back in a few months--then whatever you bought will seem archaic in hindsight. Like a very wise person already said, buy when you feel like you need the upgrade and there's an appealing product. Sure, it's outdated in a few months, but that's always true (though I wouldn't recommend buying a week before a Macworld).

MrMacMan
Aug 15, 2001, 09:40 PM
Originally posted by ManOfMoss
I have three computers in mind but I am not sure which one i should choose..
The first is the 733 mhz G4 quicksilver
The second is the G4 466mhz powermac and
The third is the 600mhz Imac
Based on pricing and over-all performance, which computer would you suggest I purchase?
Which would you argue is the best machine?
Thanks
If you explained more clearly (or at all) what you are going to use this mac for we could express are oppions more clearly. The general "rule of thumb" is that a consumer would buy the imac. A consumer uses the computer alot may want the high end imac to low end G4. A graphic designer a low end G4 to a high end G4. And a person who uses the macheine alot/graphic designer or is using this for buisness a high end g4.
_______________________________________________
MrMacmac
And that's my two cents !

ManOfMoss
Aug 15, 2001, 09:55 PM
Yes, I guess it may have helped to explain what I would be using the computer to do.

When I asked the question, I was most concerned with whether or not anyone had heard anything about any of these systems that I should be aware of before I make a final decision.

Also, It is interesting to see how others would approach the same dilema.

MrMacMan
Aug 15, 2001, 10:01 PM
Think of us a people know everything about mac's. Apple produces few systems. Well know the product's, configs of the products, and everything else needed when buying a system.

[Edited by MrMacman on 08-16-2001 at 09:54 PM]

Kela
Aug 16, 2001, 02:22 AM
Macman, with all due respect, please carefully read your previous post and tell me if you yourself understand anything? I mean, were you drunk when you wrote this? PLease it is a burden to read such english.

-KELA!!!

matze
Aug 16, 2001, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by ManOfMoss
I have three computers in mind but I am not sure which one i should choose..

The first is the 733 mhz G4 quicksilver
The second is the G4 466mhz powermac and
The third is the 600mhz Imac

Based on pricing and over-all performance, which computer would you suggest I purchase?

Which would you argue is the best machine?

Thanks

For what do you intend to use it is one question. the other is do you want to relax your eyes? if so go for a G4(733 if you can afford it; it has a Geforce2 as standard) an buy a nice display 15"LCD or at least a 17"CRT. The iMac vary greatly in their "Display-Quality". If you allready own a Monitor ... one more reason to get a G4. Altivec or not ? not so important if you are not a "heavy-duty, my job depends on this and it has to be done in the shortest timeperiod....blablabla" Photoshop-User or hardcore Gamer.
confused??? just ask yourself what you need it for and decide for yourself!
p.s. i like the G4

phaax
Sep 21, 2001, 02:00 PM
I'm a graphic design student, and my university, recently bought brand new G4 quicksilver 733. I'm a 533 owner, so when I was notice that our computer lab as been upgrade from the old dual450 to brand new 733, I rush to college like every other student and teachers. And after few test, I was, like about everybody else, really sad, to see that my 533 was still faster in photoshop. So the university call apple and they will change our 350 computers for faster machine on the next apple release, opping that they will not once again throw money by the window. So Im still happy to have my 533 but still thinking about the dual 800