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MacRumors
Mar 3, 2007, 10:13 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Users hoping for a refreshed widescreen iPod (without cellular capabilities as in the iPhone) will get their wish as early as the third calendar quarter (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2542) of this year if a report from AppleInsider holds true. However, the site does note that the timing is dependent on the iPhone rollout and could be put off until early next year.

Among the potential challenges believed to be facing Apple ahead of its sixth-generation iPod launch is a required margin of differentiation between the player and iPhone, both of which are expected to carry relatively similar price points upon availability.

The site also mentions the possibility that lower NAND flash prices could pave way for Apple to deliver a 32 GB flash-based iPod with increased battery life and even sleeker design. The claim is similar to one in early February by analyst Jesse Tortora, who said that Apple would be moving to a totally flash-based lineup (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/07/apple-moving-to-all-flash-based-ipods/) by the end of 2007.

MacRumors Analysis: While the addition of a flash-based iPod is a very real possibility, we think it is very unlikely for Apple to decrease the storage capacity in their high-end iPods and thus cut out users that have larger music/movie libraries. A speculative solution would be to have one model be flash based and a higher-capacity model be HDD based.



gkarris
Mar 3, 2007, 10:17 AM
Total flash-based? I'm running out on my 60Gig - and really want a 120 Gig with lots of videos - how much is a flash-based 120 Gig model gonna cost???

Stridder44
Mar 3, 2007, 10:19 AM
Again, flash = cool. 32 Gb of HD space = I cry myself to sleep at night.



Wake me up when they have at least 100.

rockthecasbah
Mar 3, 2007, 10:23 AM
All flash iPods would be so nice for most consumers, but for people very large libraries, i think keeping around the Hard Drive (with very large capacities) will still be necessary for another few years.. The capacity just can't compete right now.

gavstephenson
Mar 3, 2007, 10:27 AM
Excuse my ignorance, but what are the advantages (and disadvantages) of flash-based drives?

xfiftyfour
Mar 3, 2007, 10:28 AM
All flash iPods would be so nice for most consumers, but for people very large libraries, i think keeping around the Hard Drive (with very large capacities) will still be necessary for another few years.. The capacity just can't compete right now.

agreed.

i have a 60GB right now, and i won't go lower than that. i'm really hoping for the 6G iPod to be the iPhone minus networking capabilities, and with increased storage. this is probably too much to hope for, though. :(

Diatribe
Mar 3, 2007, 10:28 AM
Excuse my ignorance, but what are the advantages (and disadvantages) of flash-based drives?

No skipping, less mechanical failure prone, better battery life, smaller footprint.

saxondale.
Mar 3, 2007, 10:30 AM
Was hoping for it to be sooner, my 8gb nano is becoming unless, i need more space, but really would like to wait for the 6th generation iPod.

xfiftyfour
Mar 3, 2007, 10:30 AM
Excuse my ignorance, but what are the advantages (and disadvantages) of flash-based drives?

as i know it:

advantages: smaller form factor, increased battery life, faster, and you can run with 'em.

disadvantages: it's a new technology right now, so getting flash-based drives with as much storage as a conventional hard drive is REALLY expensive.

longofest
Mar 3, 2007, 10:31 AM
agreed.

i have a 60GB right now, and i won't go lower than that. i'm really hoping for the 6G iPod to be the iPhone minus networking capabilities, and with increased storage. this is probably too much to hope for, though. :(

For you (and those who have expressed similar sentiments), see the "MacRumors Analysis" addition to the story.

psychofreak
Mar 3, 2007, 10:31 AM
No skipping, less mechanical failure prone, better battery life, smaller footprint.

Don't forget speed...although not really a problem on iPods...

kwood
Mar 3, 2007, 10:36 AM
I don't know a whole lot about NAND flash, but what is stopping Apple from putting in 2 32Gb modules into an iPod to give 64Gb of storage?

gavstephenson
Mar 3, 2007, 10:38 AM
Ahh, these flash-based drives sound good!

Thanks for the info. folks.

I was hoping I wouldn't have to wait as long for the 6th gen. also. I really want to wait (rather than buy a 5th gen. now), but how long can one cope with a Creative Zen?(!)

shunpike
Mar 3, 2007, 10:40 AM
I don't know a whole lot about NAND flash, but what is stopping Apple from putting in 2 32Gb modules into an iPod to give 64Gb of storage?

Price mainly... :mad:

tablebeast
Mar 3, 2007, 10:44 AM
In designing a new iPod Apple has to consider both the device itself AND the iTunes service. Apple sells iPods AND media. These media files all take up space. The more storage capacity that you put in the customer's hands the more headroom they have to spend more money on your MEDIA! They may very weill introduce a 16 or 32GB flash based iPod but until flash is as cheap and has the same capacity of hard drives you will continue to see at least one hard drive model in their lineup. Also, if flash is getting so cheap, how long until we have a flash based laptop? I bet there will be an ultraportable Macbook Pro with a 32GB flash hard drive before we see that in an iPod.

mashinhead
Mar 3, 2007, 10:44 AM
I don't know a whole lot about NAND flash, but what is stopping Apple from putting in 2 32Gb modules into an iPod to give 64Gb of storage?

That's what i said about the iphone. Surly they can take that route and increase the capacity if cost and availablity are issues. That's what they did for higher capacity ipods to get increase storage.

Multimedia
Mar 3, 2007, 10:46 AM
I thought 640 x 360 Wide Video iPod would preceede iPhone this Spring. This is bad news for owners of old Video iPods. I'm crushed. :( :eek: :(

brianus
Mar 3, 2007, 10:46 AM
I don't know a whole lot about NAND flash, but what is stopping Apple from putting in 2 32Gb modules into an iPod to give 64Gb of storage?

Though prices on flash memory are falling dramatically, they're still nowhere near where they'd need to be to make that practical. Even for 32GB, the price of that much memory would eat up most of the cost of a full-sized iPod. We'll see where things stand at the end of the year, but remember, doubling the memory doubles the cost of that memory.

Ever since I saw that analyst report last month, I have been going with the speculation (apparently now shared by Macrumors) that the current 30gb iPod would be replaced by a 32GB flash model, while the 80GB would be bumped up to a 120GB internal hard drive. The 32GB would of course be thinner and lighter than the HDD-based model; and oddly enough, even though both models are currently HDD-based, the current 30GB is signifcantly thinner than the 80 (why is that??)

brianus
Mar 3, 2007, 10:50 AM
I thought 640 x 360 Wide Video iPod would preceede iPhone this Spring. This is bad news for owners of old Video iPods. I'm crushed. :( :eek: :(

I was hoping for this too, but it never seemed very likely if you think about it. Apple would not want to undercut the brouhaha over the iPhone release by putting out a very similar iPod at the same time; and Apple has, at least since 2004, tended to roll out the biggest changes to its iPod line in the fall, not the spring (around August-October).

chicagdan
Mar 3, 2007, 10:57 AM
I think all of you guys are missing the point here ... Apple spends a king's ransom every year swapping iPods with consumers because the hard drives fail so often. The repair/replace rate for flash-based iPods is significantly lower than hard drive based iPods ... so Apple is very eager to stop making hard drive based iPods as soon as its practical and may be willing to eat some short-term margin to gain the repair/replace savings.

shunpike
Mar 3, 2007, 11:03 AM
Though prices on flash memory are falling dramatically, they're still nowhere near where they'd need to be to make that practical. Even for 32GB, the price of that much memory would eat up most of the cost of a full-sized iPod. We'll see where things stand at the end of the year, but remember, doubling the memory doubles the cost of that memory.

Ever since I saw that analyst report last month, I have been going with the speculation (apparently now shared by Macrumors) that the current 30gb iPod would be replaced by a 32GB flash model, while the 80GB would be bumped up to a 120GB internal hard drive. The 32GB would of course be thinner and lighter than the HDD-based model; and oddly enough, even though both models are currently HDD-based, the current 30GB is signifcantly thinner than the 80 (why is that??)

The reason that it is thicker is that it is a double layered HDD for the 80gb but only a single layered HDD for the 30gb.

SamL
Mar 3, 2007, 11:04 AM
Sounds something like an article that I wrote in January on my Site!

Wow, why are these places considered more credible?

Check it out at:
http://www.samlustgarten.com/Jan_Arc_Tech.html#TheFullscreeniPod

Oh Well,
Sam

slffl
Mar 3, 2007, 11:11 AM
New iPods? LAME, I'm voting negative! WTH people?

Doctor Q
Mar 3, 2007, 11:14 AM
From a technology standpoint, it doesn't make sense to sell/buy a product with features that are not needed. But from a consumer point of view, the iPhone and a touchscreen iPod may not need to be strongly differentiated. Depending on their prices, and the price of cell service for the iPhone, people might think of an iPhone as an iPod whose built-in communication features are "free". You pay for those features, if you choose to, by buying a cell/Internet service contract.

That's the way you might think of a cable box's feature of letting you order pay-per-view movies. They don't sell two versions, one that supports pay-per-view and one (a little cheaper) that doesn't. My TV, answering machine, microwave, wristwatch, and even washer and dryer have features I never use too.

Actually, I doubt that Apple would sell only an iPhone version of the video iPod, because the phone features aren't a trivial part of the cost, and because they like to have products at multiple price points, but if iPhones are just a "step up" from iPods, people buying an iPod may be tempted to pay a little more for "extra" capabilities, without knowing for certain that they will use them.

dashiel
Mar 3, 2007, 11:21 AM
nand memory is expected to drop in price by as much as 25% this quarter and more than 40% over the year.

last year when introduced the 32 GB flash drive was estimated to cost around $900, the next generation model available now is $350. if you apply another 40% price drop to that you get $210.

those are also of course retail prices not wholesale. as i recall in at least two instances (the original ipod and the ipod mini) apple was selling the ipod for less than the retail cost of the hard drives inside. especially with the mini, people were buying the ipods cannibalizing them and reselling the hard drives on ebay. so one would hope that apple's wholesale cost for the drive is an additional 30-60% less than the above numbers. maybe $90-$150 for a 32gig by the end of the year.

also at CES this year 64GB and 128GB flash drives were announced. if you accept that nand memory is currently ~$11 a gigabyte (i.e. the 32GB model drive is $350) then the 64GB might cost apple as little as $170 and the 128GB model might come in as low as $330.

now let's assume the ipod 6 is basically the iphone, but without the phone components and bluetooth. that would be a total of $140.

32GB ipod6 = $230
64GB ipod6 = $310
128GB ipod6 = $470

as a reference the iphone was estimated to cost $250 and $280 respectively.

conclusion: unless there's a more than 50% drop in nand prices over the next 6 months and/or apple is able to negotiate an absolutely killer deal. i don't see an all flash line-up for another 18-24 months.

MacNut
Mar 3, 2007, 11:21 AM
This is the bad part about the iPhone, it is going to stifle any new iPods until Winter.

Phobophobia
Mar 3, 2007, 11:37 AM
I still see Apple being able to release a widescreen iPod before iPhone is released. They're two different products, at two WAY different price points.

Eraserhead
Mar 3, 2007, 11:37 AM
It could be possible, I just bought a 4GB flash drive off Amazon for £20, now surely you could just combine 8 of them (£160) to make a 6G iPod, which means the iPod could be sold for £190 given Apple's discount surely?

I suppose it is more expensive for the 80GB iPod, but they don't sell many of them do they?

pale9
Mar 3, 2007, 11:42 AM
i keep getting the feeling apple is betting the farm on the iphone. we have been waiting like lemmings for new software and nothing is in sight. apple might have all their resources focused on the stupid phone. lets face it, nobody is going to buy it just for a bigger display than an ipod! so i hope steve's thinking is not to hold back on new ipods in order to 'support' the freakin phone. my guess is the phone will bomb unless there is a *real* good phone/data plan to go with it. i pay sprint 15 bux a month for unlimited data. no way would i switch to sign up with att to pay 40 or more for the same thing....

4np
Mar 3, 2007, 11:43 AM
Pfff... this full video iPod has been rumored for over 1,5 years now and now they are again delaying it untill late 2007? Come on apple... I want to replace my 2nd gen with this new iPod and I've been waiting for this way too long already. Release the damn thing.

NintendoFan
Mar 3, 2007, 12:02 PM
The reason that it is thicker is that it is a double layered HDD for the 80gb but only a single layered HDD for the 30gb.

Double patter... but yes you are correct.

aswitcher
Mar 3, 2007, 12:04 PM
I still see Apple being able to release a widescreen iPod before iPhone is released. They're two different products, at two WAY different price points.

I think they will about a month afterward so as not to canabalise their iPhone sales as much - although how soon I dont know, since they may want to do them for Christmas meaning 3rd/4th quater would make sense.

J Radical
Mar 3, 2007, 12:10 PM
I think it's pretty risky for apple to be waiting about. The nano may be the biggest seller but the large capacity/video market is very important.

People in the market for a video player tend to be tech savvy and hold a lot of influence amongst their friends and family. Right now the Zune is a damn good alternative to the 5.5G ipod, and a delayed 6G is exactly what the Zune brand needs.

kugino
Mar 3, 2007, 12:11 PM
i, too, am waiting for that full-screen 120GB ipod. sold all my other ipods (except my 1G shuffle) in anticipation of this ipod. while it stinks that it won't come out until probably this fall, i understand apple not wanting to cannibalize its iphone sales.

still, they're drastically different products aimed at very different users...8GB of shared memory will not entice the person who wants to watch a lot of videos...and certainly nowhere enough for the audiophile who listens to uncompressed music. given that the customer base is very different, i don't think a full-video ipod will decrease iphone sales all that much...

iJawn108
Mar 3, 2007, 12:13 PM
I just hope the next gen iPod has a virtuarl click wheel at least.

Omni Geno
Mar 3, 2007, 12:18 PM
I thought 640 x 360 Wide Video iPod would preceede iPhone this Spring. This is bad news for owners of old Video iPods. I'm crushed. :( :eek: :(

Heh, heh. How about owners of aging, dying 3G iPods? :) *cough*me*cough*. I want to jump on the widescreen iPod as soon as it comes out, but despite the fact that it will come after the iPhone, it may still have "1st-Gen" woes that tech products often have.

gugy
Mar 3, 2007, 12:23 PM
oh man,
I am so tired of waiting for this widescreen iPod.
Last September we were all expecting it. Now maybe earlier next year!:eek:
you must be kidding!
This should be announce now. Dam iPhone! I think they are delaying the iPod just because of iPhone.:mad:

Marx55
Mar 3, 2007, 12:23 PM
Here is the opportunity for Apple to build the ULTIMATE presetation tool and MUCH MORE.

New generation iPod FULL-SCREEN VIDEO.
Built on iPhone specifications without phone capabilities.
Booting full Mac OS X.
Wireless.
OPEN TO DEVELOPERS.
FireWire 800 & USB2.
Versions with standard and also flash disk inside.

Now, make you Keynote or PowerPoint presentation on Mac or PC-Windows. Move the NATIVE presentation file to the iPod Video. Carry it with you and use it as the ultimate handheld wireless computerless presentation remote. A COMPUTER IN YOUR HAND.

Huge halo effect on all corporate, education and domestic markets.

We are just waiting for it to order thousands for our University.

SPACE TO GROW. In the future, as flash memory becomes cheaper and larger, it can be used to carry all your Mac stuff with you. Your files, your HOME folder, your applications and even your WHOLE desktop Mac inside the iPod Video. All in your HAND. Wow!!!

EVEN MORE: THE NEWTON REINVENTED!!!

Rocketman
Mar 3, 2007, 12:27 PM
agreed.

i have a 60GB right now, and i won't go lower than that. i'm really hoping for the 6G iPod to be the iPhone minus networking capabilities, and with increased storage. this is probably too much to hope for, though. :(

The manufacturing cost difference would be low and I suspect what you really want is a lower price point. For Apple that simply means lower margins for essentially the same product.

I for one am hoping to see an iPhone PLUS one of those Seagate microdrives at 120gb. It might fit in the SIM slot area and eliminate GSM in the USA.

So just add 802.16 wimax :)

i keep getting the feeling apple is betting the farm on the iphone. we have been waiting like lemmings for new software and nothing is in sight. apple might have all their resources focused on the stupid phone. lets face it, nobody is going to buy it just for a bigger display than an ipod! so i hope steve's thinking is not to hold back on new ipods in order to 'support' the freakin phone. my guess is the phone will bomb unless there is a *real* good phone/data plan to go with it. i pay sprint 15 bux a month for unlimited data. no way would i switch to sign up with att to pay 40 or more for the same thing....

The Apple folks below Steve have already stated confidence in, and commitment to, each existing iPod form factor: shuffle, nano, iPod.

Any other product would be in addition.

The iPhone itself is presented AS A HIGH-END IPOD. So there you go.

The purpose of the phone scheme on iPhone, 802.11+EDGE, is to get people accustomed to VOIP leading up to wimax deployment.

Rocketman

nagromme
Mar 3, 2007, 12:39 PM
I can see delaying the widescreen/multitouch 6g video iPod into next year... IF Apple releases lower-end iPhones. A cheaper, less-capable iPhone (no Internet/smartphone, just voice/iPod) could battle for sales with a full-size video iPod at first, so I can see one of the two being delayed.

Both do seem very likely in the end, though--a touch iPod and a low-end iPhone.

Now, give me 16-32 GB flash in a ver. B iPhone late this year and I will be very happy :)

DCBass
Mar 3, 2007, 12:41 PM
The purpose of the phone scheme on iPhone, 802.11+EDGE, is to get people accustomed to VOIP leading up to wimax deployment.

Rocketman


Perhaps, but how soon do you think WiMax will be deployed throughout the U.S.? I'm certainly not going to hold my breath. I don't think the economics of it will come into place for another few years yet.

If I'm wrong and it happens sooner, and Apple throws that into the iPhone, color me wrong and very happy.

jicon
Mar 3, 2007, 12:50 PM
Well, since the iPhone is set to play music, photos, video and email with only 4GB of RAM, I wouldn't be surprised if they released "only" a 32GB flash based model. I know video consumes a lot of RAM, but honestly, there are syncing options in iTunes that are set to work for people's needs. You don't need every song, video or photo loaded on the device. Besides, when Apple releases an 80GB version later, you will feel compelled to buy yet another device from them.

We are talking about a business here, and for iPhone to succeed, it will likely rely on a lot of the success of the iPod. New iPod with similar design released within six months of the phone will likely cannibalize sales.

Next year sounds about right to me.. and frankly, with a new model coming out with newer features every year, maybe sticking with what you've got for a year or two isn't necessarily a bad thing on the pocketbook. If you're buying an iPhone afterall, you're going to be "stuck" with it with a two year contract anyway.

RodThePlod
Mar 3, 2007, 12:50 PM
Don't forget speed...although not really a problem on iPods...

You should try using my 3rd gen iPod! The hard drive is definitely the reason why the thing is so sluggish - especially when viewing Notes. On my wife's nano the menus are much more responsive and snappy :rolleyes:

I was really hoping the 6th gen would be out in the first half of this year as I wanted to upgrade. But hey... I guess I'll have to wait that lil' bit longer.

RodC

Evangelion
Mar 3, 2007, 12:59 PM
now let's assume the ipod 6 is basically the iphone, but without the phone components and bluetooth.

I would say that the iPod would be the iPhone without WiFi, Cellphone and camera. Bluetooth would make sense though.

Phobophobia
Mar 3, 2007, 01:03 PM
I doubt Apple is going to hold back the widescreen iPod. They are probably waiting to release it when they show us Tiger stuff.

blashphemy
Mar 3, 2007, 01:05 PM
Heh, heh. How about owners of aging, dying 3G iPods? :) *cough*me*cough*. I want to jump on the widescreen iPod as soon as it comes out, but despite the fact that it will come after the iPhone, it may still have "1st-Gen" woes that tech products often have.

just do what I did, I got a cheap 2 GB nano (even used is ok) just to hold me off until the real thing comes along. and as a matter of fact, i think im gonna stick with my little petit nano cause i like it so much even though ive got like 27 GB of music and videos.

Here is the opportunity for Apple to build the ULTIMATE presetation tool and MUCH MORE.

New generation iPod FULL-SCREEN VIDEO.
Built on iPhone specifications without phone capabilities.
Booting full Mac OS X.
Wireless.
OPEN TO DEVELOPERS.
FireWire 800 & USB2.
Versions with standard and also flash disk inside.

Now, make you Keynote or PowerPoint presentation on Mac or PC-Windows. Move the NATIVE presentation file to the iPod Video. Carry it with you and use it as the ultimate handheld wireless computerless presentation remote. A COMPUTER IN YOUR HAND.

Huge halo effect on all corporate, education and domestic markets.

We are just waiting for it to order thousands for our University.

SPACE TO GROW. In the future, as flash memory becomes cheaper and larger, it can be used to carry all your Mac stuff with you. Your files, your HOME folder, your applications and even your WHOLE desktop Mac inside the iPod Video. All in your HAND. Wow!!!

EVEN MORE: THE NEWTON REINVENTED!!!

You sad, sad little boy. Christmas isn't coming for you... you think that they would put FULL OS X on a handheld, along with all files and *****, and not have any internet access?! And OS X is already open to developers... plus, FW800 doesnt make sense when nearly all potential users run PCs that dont support FW800, which is why Apple killed FW on the iPod.

As for the presentation-on-the-go aspect... lets see, which has more appeal: an iPresentation device, or a MacBook Pro Tablet? Its like hypothesizing that Apple will start selling XP (for boot camp, or rather Vista now) on its computers? Its a half-good idea that would bring them a lot of money, but it aint gonna happen based on principle.

Talking about principle, theres a reason why the Newton was killed off as well, and its not just because Gilbert Amelio made it.

so overall.... *slap* time to wake up.....

Snide
Mar 3, 2007, 01:27 PM
The reason that it is thicker is that it is a double layered HDD for the 80gb but only a single layered HDD for the 30gb.

Double patter... but yes you are correct.

Actually, I'm thinking it has more to do with the batteries.
Listed battery life:

30 GB model: music - 14 hours; video - 3.5 hours

80 GB model: music - 20 hours; video - 6.5 hours

-which makes me think the battery in the 80 GB model is a fair bit thicker.

alec
Mar 3, 2007, 01:34 PM
Oh boy! Another year to wait for a refreshed iPod! Thanks Apple, I love being a loyal customer.

robPOD
Mar 3, 2007, 01:38 PM
This Sucks, Now I have been waiting for almost a year and a half for the 6g iPod. Hope it comes out sooner. ARGHHHH:( :mad: :(

Hattig
Mar 3, 2007, 01:48 PM
Ever since I saw that analyst report last month, I have been going with the speculation (apparently now shared by Macrumors) that the current 30gb iPod would be replaced by a 32GB flash model, while the 80GB would be bumped up to a 120GB internal hard drive. The 32GB would of course be thinner and lighter than the HDD-based model; and oddly enough, even though both models are currently HDD-based, the current 30GB is signifcantly thinner than the 80 (why is that??)

The 30GB drives are single platters, whilst the 80GB is two platters.
You can get single platter 1.8" hard drives up to 60GB, and two platter 1.8" hard drives up to 120GB - of course these two products are the cream of the product range, hence Apple use the 30 and 80. Odd that Apple didn't up their product to 40GB just to have 10GB more than the Zune though.

I can see Apple releasing a 16GB iPod nano towards the end of this year. Therefore a 32GB iPod is not out of the question, but I expect Apple to premium price this because it is (a) slim, (b) longer battery life, (c) 32GB flash is going to cost quite a bit still. Apple should still sell hard drive based players in my opinion, 40GB and 100GB give or take a bit. These will be a good price per GB, but not as competitive on the aforementioned aspects.

Rocketman
Mar 3, 2007, 01:55 PM
Perhaps, but how soon do you think WiMax will be deployed throughout the U.S.? I'm certainly not going to hold my breath. I don't think the economics of it will come into place for another few years yet.

Sprint has announced a wimax deployment plan. It is pretty agressive. One of the cool things about wimax is the range is very similar to analog cellular, so they can just be added to every existing tower. No new easements required beyond existing cellular system growth organically. One can presume ATT too has a deployment plan, which they have not discussed publicly. I for one think (speculate) Apple is contracted to provide much of the network hardware in connection with the exclusive contract, thus greatly lowering ATT deployment costs.

On the downside the revenue model is not nearly as favorable as cellular. Many of the cell tower locatins involve pretty expensive leases. So even if wimax displaces a significant share of cellular, which it could, the cost might not drop much below half of what we pay for cellular now, even though internet is allegedly "nearly free".

More good news is it will result in widespread deployment of location independent broadband. It also means the resistence to an Apple branded solution is nill since it is not cellular.

Rocketman

Thanks for concatenating my prior posts Doctor Q.

Deployed wimax links from ATT
http://www.attalascom.com/about/timeline.html
http://www.attalascom.com/press/gerszberg.html

Link from /.
http://hardware.slashdot.org/hardware/07/03/04/2313213.shtml

brianus
Mar 3, 2007, 02:28 PM
Ha, I just checked the size of my mp3 collection (not currently in iTunes):

32.68 GB. :rolleyes:

MarcelV
Mar 3, 2007, 02:47 PM
And as long as they can still sell around 10 till 14 million iPods just current quarter, why would Apple even launch a new one. The MP3 market became a commodity, and Creative, MS, iRiver and others, don't seem to be able to break in this market, without a significant investment/loss. Of course, Apple has models laying around, and for much lower pricepoints as the competition can deliver for. So, only if there is a real business need, Apple will pull the trigger and give us this thing. (And will not be able to keep up with demand, as usual). But for now, they can milk the new iPhone, expirement with :apple:TV, and just wait what the market will do. Pretty good position for a company to be in. Bad for us, Apple fans.

You want Apple to release a widescreen iPod fast? Tell everyone to stop buying the current one :D

Shotgun OS
Mar 3, 2007, 03:10 PM
While this delay really does suck, I'm actually half-happy about it, because I just recently recieved a 5.5 gen iPod.....I'd be pretty mad/sad if they came out with a new iPod a few months after I got one....:/

Scarlet Fever
Mar 3, 2007, 03:11 PM
i can see a lot of people want the higher capacities kept. What's going to stop Apple from making a 32GB Flash iPod and a 100GB HDD iPod?

zap2
Mar 3, 2007, 03:29 PM
And as long as they can still sell around 10 till 14 million iPods just current quarter, why would Apple even launch a new one. The MP3 market became a commodity, and Creative, MS, iRiver and others, don't seem to be able to break in this market, without a significant investment/loss. Of course, Apple has models laying around, and for much lower pricepoints as the competition can deliver for. So, only if there is a real business need, Apple will pull the trigger and give us this thing. (And will not be able to keep up with demand, as usual). But for now, they can milk the new iPhone, expirement with :apple:TV, and just wait what the market will do. Pretty good position for a company to be in. Bad for us, Apple fans.

You want Apple to release a widescreen iPod fast? Tell everyone to stop buying the current one :D

Will that is true....Apple doesn't always do that, less so in the iPod part of the company(they did it with the G4s laptop, but also because the had hit a wall, however they could have press IBM for low powered G5, or gone to AMD/Intel sooner.) But Apple replaced the Mini w/ the Nano when the Mini still was selling very well

Digital Skunk
Mar 3, 2007, 03:38 PM
I just want a new iPod... Don't care what it has or doesn't have. I never listen to my entire library anyway. Its about 15 or so GBs and I may listen to about 10 different albums at any given time and that's usually a song or four at a time from each album. I may carry around 1 GB everyday. For long trips I may listen to about 4 or so GBs of music. The other 5 or 6 Gigs of stuff is Heroes and Battlestar Galactica episodes.

Anyway... my point it.... if the new pod is video capable and has the UI of the iPhone but only has 32 GBs of space then I will still get it. Unless it costs $400 :eek: . If they price it at $300 and make a model with 64GB or so for $500 then I will get the larger model and grow into it. Tech always changes and sometimes it is for the worst. Like the iSight. Can't find em in the stores. Where'd they go?

Just give me the new video iPod and I will love it just because of that new UI and new design. :cool:

Tehy
Mar 3, 2007, 03:42 PM
Damn! I hope that Apple release soon widescreen ipods :)

sam10685
Mar 3, 2007, 03:57 PM
i have a feeling this will be really awesome... we've had the 5th gen since october 2005 with only one significant update.

SiliconAddict
Mar 3, 2007, 03:57 PM
Wow. this is the first time I've cared about when the iPhone is actually realeased. :p

sam10685
Mar 3, 2007, 04:00 PM
While this delay really does suck, I'm actually half-happy about it, because I just recently recieved a 5.5 gen iPod.....I'd be pretty mad/sad if they came out with a new iPod a few months after I got one....:/

do what i'd do. put it up on ebay.

DCBass
Mar 3, 2007, 04:12 PM
I would say that the iPod would be the iPhone without WiFi, Cellphone and camera. Bluetooth would make sense though.

I dunno, I personally think it would be pretty weak if it didn't have wifi.

bketchum
Mar 3, 2007, 04:45 PM
I for one think (speculate) Apple is contracted to provide much of the network hardware in connection with the exclusive contract, thus greatly lowering ATT deployment costs.
I don't think Apple has the technology to provide carrier-level networking solutions. AT&T's equipment vendors would be companies like Alcatel-Lucent, Cisco, Nortel, Sycamore Networks, Juniper Networks, Nokia Siemens, ADTRAN, Tellabs, Secunia, Redback Networks....to name some.

That leads to an interesting and somewhat related topic... Alcatel-Lucent's recent 1.52-billion dollar lawsuit victory over Microsoft, regarding MP3 encoding and compression usage, has some people speculating that Apple might be a suit target as well. I suspect now that AT&T and Apple are close partners, Alcatel-Lucent will not sue Apple. AT&T is Alcatel-Lucent's most important customer - they don't want to upset them. Further, Alcatel-Lucent has a lot to gain on the success of the AT&T-Apple partnership. If things go well, AT&T will need to buy more Alcatel-Lucent access equipment.

In fact, it's all quite tightly connected. It's interesting to remember that Bell Labs, renamed Lucent after it was spun off of AT&T, generates a goodly amount of its revenue through the licensing (and protection) of their tens of thousands of technology patents. If it comes to anything, I would guess a quiet back-room deal (maybe brokered by AT&T to some degree) would be made between Alcatel-Lucent and Apple.

With that said, I bet that Alcatel-Lucent would love to take a billion bucks from Cisco - another company that's licensed MP3 technology from Fraunhofer. The two vendors are heated rivals.

Evangelion
Mar 3, 2007, 04:47 PM
I dunno, I personally think it would be pretty weak if it didn't have wifi.

i haven't seen any sensible use for wifi in a mp3-player, have you? besides, removing wifi would do good at differentiating ipod and iphone.

Maccus Aurelius
Mar 3, 2007, 05:06 PM
A 32GB flash-based iPod sounds great, but that as the cap of the lineup for the 6G would quite simply suck. I have a year old 60GB 5G and it has only a couple of gigs left, and I do access a lot of that content as I have used my iPod daily for the past year of ownership. Right now I think sticking with HDD based machinery is the way to go since it provides the best capacity for the money. A 100GB iPod and perhaps a 40-50GB lower end model would fare much better right now until flash tech gets better and cheaper. An iPod asking for a price similar to the current high end while providing half, or less than half of the capacity would probably not do well.

Right now I'm not sure about the benefits of WiFi. So far the Zune's capabilities are mainly useless because of the crippleware scheme that is DRM. In order for the WiFi to work in an iPod, it has to do so much more.

phytonix
Mar 3, 2007, 05:09 PM
I'll move on.

xfiftyfour
Mar 3, 2007, 05:10 PM
The manufacturing cost difference would be low and I suspect what you really want is a lower price point. For Apple that simply means lower margins for essentially the same product.

Well, Apple is already making quite a large profit from each iPhone sale if the estimated cost of manufacturing numbers are anywhere near accurate. Perhaps this was on purpose, since they could tout that it replaces so many products to justify the cost, and it would also leave them plenty of room to price the iPod and still make a decent profit (because, yes, the manufacturing costs would be about the same I imagine, but they know they can't sell an iPod at the same price point that they sell their iPod/phone/PDA all-in-one-wonder).

Also, you'd have to consider that the profit on the iPhone will increase considerably once R&D is paid off, which isn't as much of a consideration for the iPod (since it could piggy back quite a bit on the iPhone).

glucker
Mar 3, 2007, 05:33 PM
I'm waiting for my 7th gen iPod, with frameless OLED screen, 200GB flash drive, 3d gaming, 20h video battery life,and wireless charging and data transfer. also, its gonna be half an inch thick and with multitouch:p :p

gugy
Mar 3, 2007, 05:54 PM
I can't stand wait beyond that this Xmas season. Now some people saying will be here by 2008, just makes me cry.

October seems reasonable to me.
5" widescreen, touchscreen UI, 120 gig and price around $400 maybe $500 tops , I am sold.

I don't care for the iPhone because AT&T (Cingular) and the small storage, so I rather buy a widescreen iPod and keep my current phone and carrier. I bet tons of people are on the same boat as I am.

spicyapple
Mar 3, 2007, 06:00 PM
Most of this rumour is wishful thinking.

Until the day comes when flash memory for the regular iPod form factor is cheaper per gigabyte than HDD, we won't see it. Just look at flash memory prices to "predict" when Apple would be releasing flash-based iPods. Late 2007, early 2008 is still a fairly aggressive estimate.

Technology progresses naturally, so in the meantime, enjoy your HDD iPods and your flash nanos. :p

psychofreak
Mar 3, 2007, 06:03 PM
Most of this rumour is wishful thinking.

Until the day comes when flash memory for the regular iPod form factor is cheaper per gigabyte than HDD, we won't see it. Just look at flash memory prices to "predict" when Apple would be releasing flash-based iPods. Late 2007, early 2008 is still a fairly aggressive estimate.

Technology progresses naturally, so in the meantime, enjoy your HDD iPods and your flash nanos. :p
They ditched the hugely successful iPod Mini with larger capacity for the Nano because of the advantages of NAND...

MarcelV
Mar 3, 2007, 06:26 PM
They ditched the hugely successful iPod Mini with larger capacity for the Nano because of the advantages of NAND...

I think there was another reason. They were aware others were working on competitive NAND based products, and Apple had to make a move. Because there is no place for two pretty identical products in Apple's iPod line (the Mini and Nano were really targetting the same audience), they had not much choice.
Apple was able to enhance their market lead by buying the NAND in very large quantities. Therefore making it hard for others to launch similar players in the market place for more attractive prices. Because others had almost no profit margins, they initially couldn't match the price point, and for sure had no room to make a splash.

Cult Follower
Mar 3, 2007, 06:27 PM
I think the Video iPod line will be split, having two lower capacities with flash. And two higher capacity ones at like 100 and 120 gigs.

Cult Follower
Mar 3, 2007, 06:29 PM
i have a feeling this will be really awesome... we've had the 5th gen since october 2005 with only one significant update.

I didn't consider it a 'significant' update.

Maccus Aurelius
Mar 3, 2007, 06:49 PM
The updates were enhancements at best, nothing really spectacular. All they got was improved battery life, brighter displays (which is meaningless to me since I lower the brightness) and upgraded headphones. There were enough upgrades to the UI that some were unable to be passed down to the rev A 5G, but beyond that I see few if any real world differences other than the 20GB boost on the higher end model, but this should've meant a slight boost in the 30 as well. Basically these are just stopgap items until whenever it is they release the new one.

AidenShaw
Mar 3, 2007, 07:36 PM
Don't forget speed...although not really a problem on iPods...

Actually, hard drives do better for speed on larger transfers - on small random reads/writes, flash is better because there's no head movement or rotational latency.

For example, Windows Vista™ can use a USB flash drive as an I/O accelerator: ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReadyBoost )

quote:

"Using ReadyBoost-capable flash memory devices for caching allows Windows Vista to service random disk reads with performance that is typically 80-100 times faster than random reads from traditional hard drives. This caching is applied to all disk content, not just the page file or system DLLs.

Flash devices are typically slower than the hard drive for sequential I/O, so to maximize performance, ReadyBoost includes logic to recognize large, sequential read requests and then allows these requests to be serviced by the hard drive."

penter
Mar 3, 2007, 08:28 PM
does anyone here trully believe that this idea is feasible and likely to come true??
I ask because i have been patiently waiting for this supposed widescreen true-video ipod for quite sometime (6-8 months), and my patience is about to run out. I am a lover of music, and it is becoming unbearable to be without it by my side.
I would like to know if i should get a video iPod now, or wait some 9 months for this update that has has been rumored for almost a year and counting......:confused:

twoodcc
Mar 3, 2007, 08:31 PM
well i was hoping that it would be released sooner than that, but i guess holidays is expected.

planning on getting an iPhone anyways though

SkyBell
Mar 3, 2007, 09:09 PM
I think the 6G iPod will be nothing more then a 5G with a larger screen.

Although I don't see the point of a larger screen. I think Apple should just keep on making 5G's with increasd capacity, and maybe a built in radio or something.

Dagless
Mar 3, 2007, 09:21 PM
We're not ready for flash based yet, IMO.

It's only recently that Nano's have offered the same price/capacity ratio as the iPod Minis. For a 32gb Flash iPod I could probably get an 80gb iPod. Of course you get slimmer designs and better battery life, and I'd never fill a 32gb iPod let alone an 80gb... But not yet.

IMO they should just split the iPod market into 2 - flash ones and HDD. And the wee Shuffle sat somewhere along the line.


I still prefer my iPod Shuffle over my Mini and big iPod :)

mashinhead
Mar 3, 2007, 09:23 PM
How do you sync your nike+ account with itunes. I created an account first, not by clicking the link in itunes. later i connect my ipod and opened up iTunes and saw the nike+ tab, clicked it and i see the create my account button, which leads me to the page i already signed up. So i have and account but how do i tell itunes i have it?

gugy
Mar 3, 2007, 09:24 PM
Although I don't see the point of a larger screen. I think Apple should just keep on making 5G's with increasd capacity, and maybe a built in radio or something.

Man, you must be kidding.
The widescreen iPod will probably have a 5" screen in a 16x9 format. This is much larger and better to viewing videos, browse libraries, photos, etc.
Also the new wide - screen might be the same quality as the iPhone that according to some is much sharper than the 5G's screen.

sam10685
Mar 3, 2007, 09:28 PM
I didn't consider it a 'significant' update.

i was going to say "marginally significant update" but i figured i'd get flamed. :rolleyes:

lamerlizer
Mar 3, 2007, 09:42 PM
I thought 640 x 360 Wide Video iPod would preceede iPhone this Spring. This is bad news for owners of old Video iPods. I'm crushed. :( :eek: :(

i'm joining you. being crushed too:(

Digital Skunk
Mar 3, 2007, 10:41 PM
I can't stand wait beyond that this Xmas season. Now some people saying will be here by 2008, just makes me cry.

October seems reasonable to me.
5" widescreen, touchscreen UI, 120 gig and price around $400 maybe $500 tops , I am sold.

I don't care for the iPhone because AT&T (Cingular) and the small storage, so I rather buy a widescreen iPod and keep my current phone and carrier. I bet tons of people are on the same boat as I am.

HERE HERE!! I am on that boat along with many others. Bring me an unlocked iPhone (or at least with Sprint) or a real full screen iPod before I turn 30.

Digital Skunk
Mar 3, 2007, 10:49 PM
I think there was another reason. They were aware others were working on competitive NAND based products, and Apple had to make a move. Because there is no place for two pretty identical products in Apple's iPod line (the Mini and Nano were really targetting the same audience), they had not much choice.
Apple was able to enhance their market lead by buying the NAND in very large quantities. Therefore making it hard for others to launch similar players in the market place for more attractive prices. Because others had almost no profit margins, they initially couldn't match the price point, and for sure had no room to make a splash.

Somewhat correct. Apple didn't buy all of the NAND that the country had to offer. There is no why Apple could buy enough of it to make their competitors short on NAND tech. They did buy a large amount of it so they could make the shuffle and Nano though. And... like said before... Apple did release a player that had a lower capacity than the one it replaced, but not for competitive reasons... for QC reasons. The Mini was dropped way too often (usually by joggers and exercisers that use the mini for its size) and the HDD was way to delicate. The same problem is happening with the 5.5 Gen iPod. People take their Pods back to the store and say "what's wrong" we turn them over and there is a dent in the bottom casing. We say, "You smashed the HDD..." then we chuck the thing in the trash... it's no good.

The Nanos have a much higher life expectancy and are WAY more durable than the full sized iPods would ever be unless they used flash based storage. One main reason for the flash based storage in the iPhone. Don't want to drop a $500 phone and have it ruined because the HDD is smashed.

The second reason is battery life. The mini and iPod had good battery life but once they added that color screen :eek: you get my point. So they opted for the flash based drive that took much less power to run made it smaller with a color screen, improved the battery life, and presto... the mini player of the future with a coolness factor that would make anybody forget about the higher capacity iPod Mini.:cool:

SiliconAddict
Mar 3, 2007, 10:55 PM
A 32GB flash-based iPod sounds great, but that as the cap of the lineup for the 6G would quite simply suck. I have a year old 60GB 5G and it has only a couple of gigs left, and I do access a lot of that content as I have used my iPod daily for the past year of ownership. Right now I think sticking with HDD based machinery is the way to go since it provides the best capacity for the money. A 100GB iPod and perhaps a 40-50GB lower end model would fare much better right now until flash tech gets better and cheaper. An iPod asking for a price similar to the current high end while providing half, or less than half of the capacity would probably not do well.

Right now I'm not sure about the benefits of WiFi. So far the Zune's capabilities are mainly useless because of the crippleware scheme that is DRM. In order for the WiFi to work in an iPod, it has to do so much more.

++

Amen. I'm in the exact same boat as you. I've got about 6GB of space left. Up from 5GB. I did some housecleaning on my iPod.
If Apple did release new iPods with such limited storage space I literally would have no other choice but to go somewhere else for my next PMP. Having only a certain % of my music collection is not an option. If it was the case I would have gone with a Nano. I've bitched about this before but such a move is a downgrade, not an upgrade.


As for WIFI. Personally I don't need it, but that's me. I don't need to share my music, I don't need to download it of of iTMS on the fly, and I'm certainly not going to be syncing it across WIFI.
The only wireless that I would be most interested in would be a BlueTooth 2.0, and a set of BT headphones.

Digital Skunk
Mar 3, 2007, 10:56 PM
does anyone here trully believe that this idea is feasible and likely to come true??
I ask because i have been patiently waiting for this supposed widescreen true-video ipod for quite sometime (6-8 months), and my patience is about to run out. I am a lover of music, and it is becoming unbearable to be without it by my side.
I would like to know if i should get a video iPod now, or wait some 9 months for this update that has has been rumored for almost a year and counting......:confused:

(sigh) I am in your boat too man. I want that video iPod my self. Passed up a chance for a free 80GB iPod almost two months ago for that video iPod. :mad:

My fault though. Anyway... I think it is very likely. I would like to have a more durable flash based Pod then one with an amazing capacity. But Apple does need to cater to those that need the space. And the other part of me does want that space too :D

I am crossing my fingers for a flash based Super Pod at 64GB at $400 or so. I will pay for that. Any more and we have a problem. HDD based and we can work something out if there is a new UI and the capacity goes up to 120 or so.

Digital Skunk
Mar 3, 2007, 11:10 PM
Give me WiFi only... AND ONLY... if I can access the ITunes Store from a hotspot and download content from it. Maybe even some PDA stuff like checking my mail, surfing the web and.... NO NO.... this is a music player... ONLY IF I CAN DOWNLOAD FROM THE STORE.

Everything else will be cute and welcomed if it didn't jack the price up. But there is no need for WiFi and sharing music if DRM exists. The Zune's WiFi is a failure because that's all it can do, and if four people on my campus have a Zune I don't know them or don't like what they have what good is it?

bloodycape
Mar 3, 2007, 11:49 PM
Maybe they are doing what something similar to what sony is doing with their UX umpc device offering a 32gig nad flash version and a 60gig(i think it is 60gig) version but instead of the 60gig it be the current 80gig or 100gig+ like the Archos 504/704. I think the price of the both Sony devices are similar to that is the only disadvantage and to the average consumer they would think the 80gig since they would not really know much about the 32gig flash model.

MacsAttack
Mar 4, 2007, 04:35 AM
Big surprise... Apple to put iPhone interface on 6G iPod for the holiday season...

Film at 11.

The moment SJ showed off the iPhone interfact this was a foregone conclusion. I'm not expecting much else to change on what will be the first true Video iPod - Apple have a history of doing "just enough" to stay one step ahead of the others.

Keeping the 6G iPod HD-based is inevitable - the extra capacity is what will differentiat it from the iPhone (so some people will buy both). By waiting until later in the year Apple...

1. Get people who just have to have the inerface to go buy an iPhone (because until it is released the 6G is only a rumor).

2. Get the components into mass production with the iPhone so when they use it on the iPod they can get economy of scale to maximize their margins (and profit).

The iPod has always been the "flag-ship" device. But the real market has been shown to be in the less expensive (and less feature-rich) Mini/Nano/Shuffle. While the full iPod can branch off as a different device, the challenge is what can Apple do to the Nano and Shuffle in the future?

I'm looking forward to the inevitable iPhone Nano (the worlds best selling cell phone) and the killer iPhone Shuffle (you can receive all calls, but can only make calls out to a list of pre-selected speed-dial numbers by tapping the arrow-shape "badge" the correct number of times... ) :D

freebooter
Mar 4, 2007, 04:37 AM
What about a flash+hdd combo?

Flash for ready use, hdd for storage.

Stewdy
Mar 4, 2007, 05:23 AM
Anybody think we may get the Beatles on itunes this Tuesday when the Definitive 200 is announced? Steve had Sgt. Pepper's on his iphone and there is a good chance that will be the #1 album on the list. I'd say there's a 50/50 chance...

AppleMan101
Mar 4, 2007, 06:01 AM
Pah, all you guys complaining about having to wait with only a 5G or a 5.5G iPod make me sick. I've only got a 1Gb, 1G Shuffle to keep me company. I do love it dearly but having to charge it from USB sucks when you're travelling. One day in Manchester, 100 and something miles away from home I ahd to make an hour's trip to the apple store to charge it up on a MacBook for the train journey home...hehehe.

Anyway, enough of that. I want my 6G SuperDuperSnazzyHighCapacityCompletelyScratchResistantUltraWidescreenVideo iPod now dammit.

Apparently, to make it scratch resistant apple are using a unique way to protect it. It's called the iAurora or HaloEffect, which is effectively a force field - stopping anything sharp getting anywhere near it's oh so fragile surface. US Patent no. 1230HAH0I0WISH0789

[/Garbage]

MacSA
Mar 4, 2007, 06:39 AM
Apple need to put the spotlight back on their computers and software.

4np
Mar 4, 2007, 06:50 AM
As for WIFI. Personally I don't need it, but that's me. I don't need to share my music, I don't need to download it of of iTMS on the fly, and I'm certainly not going to be syncing it across WIFI.
The only wireless that I would be most interested in would be a BlueTooth 2.0, and a set of BT headphones.

In the iPhone WIFI is there for other reasons; like to surf the web, check your email etc when you're in WIFI range.

4np
Mar 4, 2007, 07:01 AM
Also,

Get rid of DRM and -consequently- change iTunes so that i don't need to have my entire music library on my PB AND on my iPod. This is so annoying... I want all music on my iPod and not on my PB! :mad:

nemaslov
Mar 4, 2007, 07:58 AM
Though prices on flash memory are falling dramatically, they're still nowhere near where they'd need to be to make that practical. Even for 32GB, the price of that much memory would eat up most of the cost of a full-sized iPod. We'll see where things stand at the end of the year, but remember, doubling the memory doubles the cost of that memory.

Ever since I saw that analyst report last month, I have been going with the speculation (apparently now shared by Macrumors) that the current 30gb iPod would be replaced by a 32GB flash model, while the 80GB would be bumped up to a 120GB internal hard drive. The 32GB would of course be thinner and lighter than the HDD-based model; and oddly enough, even though both models are currently HDD-based, the current 30GB is signifcantly thinner than the 80 (why is that??)

Bring on120GB even 200GB. My 80GB is full of music only and I want double room!!!

akadmon
Mar 4, 2007, 08:32 AM
Bring on120GB even 200GB. My 80GB is full of music only and I want double room!!!

And you no doubt paid for it all.

TheManOfSilver
Mar 4, 2007, 08:46 AM
I wonder (if this is true) whether or not the late 2007/early 2008 release of a true widescreen iPod might be on purpose to allow Apple to gauge the popularity of the iPhone, and forecast the extent to which it might cannibalize the mainstream iPod market.

They may also be waiting for certain technologies to come online ... wild speculation here, but would there be a smaller/mobile version of the Santa Rosa platform in the works combining flash memory with a hard drive to improve battery life and performance?

SheriffParker
Mar 4, 2007, 09:08 AM
Although I don't see the point of a larger screen. I think Apple should just keep on making 5G's with increasd capacity, and maybe a built in radio or something.

I know. I love watching full-length movies on a 2.5 inch screen @ 320 x 240. Its awesome.

xfiftyfour
Mar 4, 2007, 11:34 AM
I know. I love watching full-length movies on a 2.5 inch screen @ 320 x 240. Its awesome.

Yeah, and the headache afterwards is just satisfaction from a good film.

Cadallin
Mar 4, 2007, 12:37 PM
An all flash memory line-up is a terrible idea in my opinion. The full iPod is already differentiated from the iPhone by much larger capacity. I would hope that a new "true" video iPod would have on the order of 100GB of capacity. 32GB would be pointless. The point of the iPod is to be able to carry around your entire library.

My 3G 40GB iPod is getting long in the tooth, but I'm holding out for a true video ipod. If apple releases a low capacity flash model, I'm likely to skip the iPod entirely and just upgrade to a Nokia 800 Internet Tablet running Canola.

Mgkwho
Mar 4, 2007, 01:47 PM
Ok, whatever...this makes sense. Why would they want to release it before the iPhone? They wouldn't, so september would be perfect for again updating the iPod line.

-=|Mgkwho

JGowan
Mar 4, 2007, 01:54 PM
I ask because i have been patiently waiting for this supposed widescreen true-video ipod for quite sometime (6-8 months), and my patience is about to run out. I am a lover of music, and it is becoming unbearable to be without it by my side.If I were you, I'd simply consider a happy-medium: the iPod Shuffle. It's a $79 hit to the wallet, but then again, it's only a $79 hit to the wallet... they really are quite nice.

I own a 5.5G/80GB model and the newest shuffle and I must say, there are times when I'm glad I'm not dragging the "bad boy" around. Sure, you can only bring about 10 CDs with you but it will help soften the blow of waiting.

JGowan
Mar 4, 2007, 02:04 PM
Ok, whatever...this makes sense. Why would they want to release it before the iPhone? They wouldn't, so september would be perfect for again updating the iPod line.MgkwhoI don't know if I agee with this line of thought. In my opinion, it makes more sense to bring out the 6G Widescreen Touchscreen iPod now.

Why?

If I'm planning on buying an iPhone in June, I'm gonna buy. I've got money for an expensive phone and I've got money for an expensive plan. If I'm buying $599 phone and agreeing to $1800 2 year contract (that's $75 x 24 mo), I'm agreeing to be ready to spend almost $2500 in the next 2 years.

Now if Apple releases the 6G iPod for $299-399, it's quite possible (since I've got cash) to go ahead and get used to the "experience" of the touchscreen technology that I'll have in 3-4 months. At which time, I either keep both units or I can decide to give that one away. It's an impulse move but it's "only" an extra $299-399, on top of the $2500 commitment their bracing for. And it's an extra $299-399 in Apple's pocket.

If the 6G iPod comes out AFTER the iPhone, those iPhone owners would most surely not cough up the additional money. They have their slick iPod experience in their phone and the wallet is shut.

If I'm NOT buying an iPhone in June, why not make a big splash in the 2nd quarter and get those not buying in the 3rd to at least throw money in the till now. It's $299-399 in Apple's pocket now.

I say, bring on the 6G iPod now, 'cause I ain't buying an iPhone in June!

Mgkwho
Mar 4, 2007, 02:54 PM
For those that don't want all that capability they'd of course opt for a lower phone model, or even a model without a phone.

But, when given the two different options, if someone were willing to spend more yet they really just want the increased functionality that comes with widescreen, why not just wait a few months to release a lower-priced product? The iPod is perfectly fine as it is, give or take a few adjustments.


It just seems to me that the iPhone would be cannibalized if it came out with a full screen, regardless of the functionality. Cell phones aren't a niche market, but the amount of smart-cell phone users might almost equate to one. There are certainly more low-end cell phones than high end. Those who are going to buy an iPhone with its current functionality certainly will not be affected by a new iPod, but, the amount of people like that are few compared to the entire market. However, if going by the amount that really just want 'full screen', there are more.

I think.

Why not get as many possible people to buy an iPhone?

-=|Mgkwho

Maccus Aurelius
Mar 4, 2007, 03:03 PM
Seagate presently has a momentus hybrid which uses flash memory on top of the rotating media so that there's less of a need to frequently access the data on the platter, improving battery time. Something similar would be great, though I don't know if such a thing exists for 1.8" drives.

As I've said before, NAND video iPods don't strike me as particularly appealing. It sounds like they'd be cutting the flagship model line down to one, which would surely drive away customers to other hardware that will deliver on the capacity. I won't settle for anything less than a 60-80GB HD based PMP, mostly because they already gave them to me. They can't just make these things then go back on the capacity expecting everyone to be happy with this. I already have the extra space spent in my mind, it would be a mistake to turn video ipods into giant nanos all of a sudden.

I would much rather see an HD based iPhone-like iPod with the brushed aluminum backplate and thin bezel around the full widescreen face that gives me 100+GB to play with, while of course fitting in my iPod dock so it doesnt become a $50 paperweight.

thejadedmonkey
Mar 4, 2007, 03:24 PM
I just want them to come out with a nano that has a larger screen!

SiliconAddict
Mar 4, 2007, 03:50 PM
In the iPhone WIFI is there for other reasons; like to surf the web, check your email etc when you're in WIFI range.

I'm not talking the iPhone. I have WIFI in my PDA and its a godsend, but in my iPod? Don't need it, don't want it. All it will do is drive up the cost, and the size. Again though, BlueTooth would be nice. The size of BT modules have come down substantially in the last couple years, as has power consumption, and with 2.0 it can handle the transmission rates for fairly high quality audio.

Guys repeat after me: The iPhone and iPod are after different markets. Again. The iPhone and iPod are after different markets.

Its really that simple. There are about a dozen things that differentiate the two, the least of which is storage space.

SiliconAddict
Mar 4, 2007, 03:56 PM
I know. I love watching full-length movies on a 2.5 inch screen @ 320 x 240. Its awesome.

The minimum size IMHO is 4". I've had 2"-3.5" screens on my PDA's over the years and they are too small for video playback. The minimum size requirement should be around 4". Currently my on the go video player is my iPaq 4700. It rocks for video.
That being said it would be a little on the large side for an iPod. Total catch 22 here.

technicolor
Mar 4, 2007, 04:01 PM
Pah, all you guys complaining about having to wait with only a 5G or a 5.5G iPod make me sick. I've only got a 1Gb, 1G Shuffle to keep me company. I do love it dearly but having to charge it from USB sucks when you're travelling. One day in Manchester, 100 and something miles away from home I ahd to make an hour's trip to the apple store to charge it up on a MacBook for the train journey home...hehehe.

Anyway, enough of that. I want my 6G SuperDuperSnazzyHighCapacityCompletelyScratchResistantUltraWidescreenVideo iPod now dammit.

Apparently, to make it scratch resistant apple are using a unique way to protect it. It's called the iAurora or HaloEffect, which is effectively a force field - stopping anything sharp getting anywhere near it's oh so fragile surface. US Patent no. 1230HAH0I0WISH0789

[/Garbage]
Youre mad because people want to upgrade and you either dont want to or cant afford to?

You should be mad at yourself for only having shuffle and having no way to charge it yourself.

Sounds like a personal problem

BITTER!

penter
Mar 4, 2007, 04:17 PM
If I were you, I'd simply consider a happy-medium: the iPod Shuffle. It's a $79 hit to the wallet, but then again, it's only a $79 hit to the wallet... they really are quite nice.

I own a 5.5G/80GB model and the newest shuffle and I must say, there are times when I'm glad I'm not dragging the "bad boy" around. Sure, you can only bring about 10 CDs with you but it will help soften the blow of waiting.

thnx for that. i actually have a 1st gen shuffle, and it does help, but nothing beats being able to watch some movies, tv shows, or ANY of the songs in my music library during long bus commutes...... oh well ::sigh::
im commited to wait :)

DMann
Mar 4, 2007, 05:36 PM
Total flash-based? I'm running out on my 60Gig - and really want a 120 Gig with lots of videos - how much is a flash-based 120 Gig model gonna cost???

Flash drive technology has made some major breakthroughs during this past month, with SanDisk's 32G being only the tip-'o-the iceberg. The price for 'em will come down as production and supplies ramp up. Although $600 for 32G is quite steep, they'll drop significantly by the end of the year as supply meets demand, and as demand dictates a fair price....

sushi
Mar 4, 2007, 07:19 PM
I see Apple offering 3 music player lines:

- iPod Shuffle. Continue with a flash based small iPod with no display.

- iPod Nano and regular type. Convert over to flash based players. With flash prices dropping as they are, we could expect to see models in the 32GB and 64GB ranges soon. In the meantime, we may see smaller offerings. Aimed at the music on the go audience.

- vPod or iPod Video. Continue to be HD based. Large capacity with a large screen and bigger battery. Aimed at those who want to take along their videos and movies, and of course large music collections. I would expect to have cable connections for audio and video included in the design to make it easy to connect to a TV.

Digital Skunk
Mar 4, 2007, 08:17 PM
I just want them to come out with a nano that has a larger screen!

Why??

Digital Skunk
Mar 4, 2007, 08:18 PM
I see Apple offering 3 music player lines:

- iPod Shuffle. Continue with a flash based small iPod with no display.

- iPod Nano and regular type. Convert over to flash based players. With flash prices dropping as they are, we could expect to see models in the 32GB and 64GB ranges soon. In the meantime, we may see smaller offerings. Aimed at the music on the go audience.

- vPod or iPod Video. Continue to be HD based. Large capacity with a large screen and bigger battery. Aimed at those who want to take along their videos and movies, and of course large music collections. I would expect to have cable connections for audio and video included in the design to make it easy to connect to a TV

And the Video Pod would be the size of the PSP. Huge and not dockable. It will take C batteries and have an 8" screen. Why don't we just give it a laptop battery and keyboard and call it the MacBook Mini.

Seriously though, I agree with you. They may be three options to the PMP line up but I think the shuffle lovers (myself included) will be a bit unhappy with the Nano. The shuffle is a set it and forget it player that I just put on and hit play. Then, 4 hours later, I hit pause and take it off. The Nano is nice and I used to own one but it isn't as care free. And since I live in a not so nice place in the USA I don't mind getting my player taken from me since it is $79.

I would rather see Apple make the high end iPod into the video, and increase the capacity of the Shuffle and Nano. The shuffle goes to 2 GB maybe more and at the same price. The Nano keeps the 2GB model at a lower price (like $99) and the $149 model gets 4GB, the $199 gets 8GB and the $249 gets 12 or 16GB. If flash based storage decreases in price of course. The flagship iPod does get that 120GB 1.8" HDD and maybe a combo flash and HDD 120GB hybrid that can cache the songs and movies you play more often to conserve battery life. The second version will be totally flash based and have a 64GB (advertised as 60GB) flash based drive and a smaller size. ***OR*** it will stay the same size and have a better battery. Price would remain the same.

Or Apple could just go big and bring the Video iPod back to that $450 - $500 price range and make it entirely flash based with two 64GB flash drives. That would make it 120GB in size, smaller in dimensions and much better battery life.

And the biggest improvement across the line (or at least for the Video Pod) it would gain the UI of the iPhone and much much improved battery life during video playback.

DMann
Mar 4, 2007, 09:05 PM
I just want them to come out with a nano that has a larger screen!

A mini iPhone screen designed Nano? Or just a slightly larger screen? You do realize that this would likely alter the slim design of the Nano.....

sushi
Mar 4, 2007, 10:31 PM
And the Video Pod would be the size of the PSP.
<Snip>

That's why I think that there will be three separate and distinct lines.

The Shuffle is perfect for those who want a simple low end player. Love mine and use it while skiing and during other similar activities. Increased memory to 2GB would be a nice addition.

The 2nd Gen Nano form factor is so much nicer than the regular iPod, of which I have both. I really like the Nano (Black 8GB) but wish that it had more capacity at times. A 32GB version would be very nice. A 64GB version would be fantastic.

As for the video iPod, or whatever they are going to call it, I don't see it as a primary music player. I see it as an on the go video player that can also play music. With a display the size of the iPod and controls similar to the iPhone, the video iPod can still be fairly small. But at this point in time, it needs the capacity that only a HD can deliver at a cost effective price. In a few years, that will probably change.

Maccus Aurelius
Mar 5, 2007, 10:07 AM
Despite what people want, all iPods across the board will have to function as primary music players. My 60GB is my one and only iPod, and I have no intention of getting a shuffle or nano to compliment it as I've grown too fond of having my entire library with me at all times. If the 6G iPod takes away from the audio listening experience at all I imagine it would do poorly. I don't want some Apple version of the Archos, which may give a good video experience but sucks as a walk around music player. For people who intend on listening to music first and foremost, but probably will not use the video function much or at all the full sized iPods will have to deliver to them too. You can't shut out the audio power users just to cater to the ones that want video more than anything.

DMann
Mar 5, 2007, 12:07 PM
Despite what people want, all iPods across the board will have to function as primary music players. My 60GB is my one and only iPod, and I have no intention of getting a shuffle or nano to compliment it as I've grown too fond of having my entire library with me at all times. If the 6G iPod takes away from the audio listening experience at all I imagine it would do poorly. I don't want some Apple version of the Archos, which may give a good video experience but sucks as a walk around music player. For people who intend on listening to music first and foremost, but probably will not use the video function much or at all the full sized iPods will have to deliver to them too. You can't shut out the audio power users just to cater to the ones that want video more than anything.

You make a great point - a Swiss Army Knife may offer you an entire toolbox, but if all you really need and want is a single blade, the one on the SAK seems compromised when compared to high-end single blades. Not to say that the listening experience is compromised within :apple:'s Video iPods, (they seem to use the same sound processors in all models, including the Shuffle) but why carry around a backpack when all you really need is a wallet?

Maccus Aurelius
Mar 5, 2007, 01:25 PM
Well when I say compromise the audio experience, I mean through the controls. Part of the reason why I love using my iPod is because the textured pad integrated into the physical button array make it very intuitive to use by feel, and the menus and layouts are very clear for quick browsing and song selection. The 6G would have to have an interface and control mechanism that can be used comfortably by people with no interest in video as well as video users.

psychofreak
Mar 5, 2007, 01:26 PM
Well when I say compromise the audio experience, I mean through the controls. Part of the reason why I love using my iPod is because the textured pad integrated into the physical button array make it very intuitive to use by feel, and the menus and layouts are very clear for quick browsing and song selection. The 6G would have to have an interface and control mechanism that can be used comfortably by people with no interest in video as well as video users.

Like the iPhone?

gadgetguy08
Mar 26, 2007, 07:49 PM
This whole thing is kind of disappointing. I hope it isn't true that Apple is "betting the barn" on the iPhone, because I really don't think it's going to be the revolution that the iPod was, even if it does sell well. And as for the :apple: TV, who really cares? I watched the product reveal, and I've looked at every tech spec I can find, and still have not managed to discover its real significance. So I can stream media to my TV. Big deal. I do exactly the same thing right now with my iPod AV cable without paying $300.

As for the new iPod, I couldn't care less about WiFi. What I really want to see is bluetooth. Think of the possibilities: wireless headsets, wireless downloads from your computer (or an iTunes kiosk ;) ), wireless communication with other iPods and cellular devices, and, my favorite, wireless streaming to car stereos. Another feature that I think would be amazing but is more than highly unlikely is wireless charging capability such as is currently available from Splashpower and other electronics companies. (Maybe this can be on my list for the 8th or 9th gen iPod, when wireless charging has become more mainstream.) :) Another of my main concerns with the 6gen iPod is its durability. iPods are beautifully designed devices, but they must be shoved into much less beautiful cases and covers in order to remain that way. Finally, I am cautiously optimistic that Apple (if it knows what's good for itself) will release both a flash based iPod and a 100+GB HDD-based one. The flash-based model would be targeted at the casual user looking for longer battery life and a slimmer form factor while the HDD model would target those with large media collections. Besides, if Apple wants to continue to better the resolution of their video downloads and offering new media, they will need to provide the necessary storage space.

But no matter what, all iPod models should cater first and foremost to listeners of music. I WILL NOT buy an Apple version of the Archos! (Thank you, Maccus Aurelius.)

synth3tik
Mar 26, 2007, 07:52 PM
The Gen 5.5 update was more or less a joke. I got an 80G black now, but just because it was on sale. the differences between my 5th gen and my 5.5 are very small.