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dsyroi
Mar 4, 2007, 05:28 PM
I've got a flat panel G4 iMac, currently running 10.3.9. I'm having ongoing problems: frequent kernel panics, weird things happening to the display (display breaks up into a jumble of lines on occasion). I've done the usual troubleshooting: disk utility, apple hardware test, reboot in Safe. I want to try reinstalling the OS to see if this helps.

Problem: I don't have the install discs for OS 10.3.9 - about a year ago the logic board was replaced and I had the service swap in a new hard drive at that time and they loaded 10.3.9 when they did this. I don't want to buy 10.4 at this point - with Leopard coming out soon from what I understand, also want to make sure I can get the computer running properly again before I throw any more money at it. I've tried using borrowed discs to install 10.4, but I keep getting a message stating: "you cannot install this software on this computer". This has happened with 3 different borrowed install discs. Two of the borrowed discs were for iBooks, one was for a G5 iMac, not sure if this has anything to do with it or whether it's something else, but any help on this would be very much appreciated.
Thanks



robbieduncan
Mar 4, 2007, 05:30 PM
None of them will work. They are all locked to the machine that they came with. If you had an iBook or a G5 iMac they would work. You need to BUY a RETAIL copy of 10.4. Installing Tiger from borrowed restore DVDs is breaking the EULA making you liable for damages to Apple.

dsyroi
Mar 4, 2007, 05:47 PM
Thanks for the reply. If I understand you correctly the install DVDs that come with any particular machine are "locked" to that machine but if you buy the OS separately retail then that's not the case? If so then I've got a few more questions:

Would it be a problem if I reinstalled an earlier version of the OS? The machine came with 10.1.4 and I've got the Panther upgrade, I'd be happy enough with 10.2 if I know that it won't cause problems reverting to the earlier OS. As I said, I'm not keen to buy Tiger at this point for this machine when I'm not sure whether I'm going to have to replace it.

Any opinions on whether reinstalling the OS is the correct thing to try at this point? To go over the problem again in a little more detail: I sometimes get kernel panics at start-up or when the machine is coming out of sleep mode. Other times when I'm using the machine the display will start doing strange things - usually some variation of dissolving into thin horizontal lines. When either of these events occurs I reboot in Safe mode, and so far I've had no problems in Safe mode. I've also verified the disc (from one of the borrowed discs), and repaired permissions (from my hard drive). I've reset pram on a couple of occasions, and run the Apple Hardware Test.

Thanks for any help on this.

robbieduncan
Mar 4, 2007, 05:50 PM
Reinstalling the OS is very unlikely to do anything for kernel panics. They are almost always caused by hardware issues or the drivers for non-Apple hardware. If you post the panic log we might be able to work out what's causing it.

dsyroi
Mar 4, 2007, 05:57 PM
Not sure how much of the panic log I should include here, it's pretty long. I'm including what look like the last 3 or 4 entries, let me know if this is not enough, again any help is greatly appreciated:


Tue Feb 27 22:45:20 2007




Unresolved kernel trap(cpu 0): 0x300 - Data access DAR=0x000000003813334E PC=0x000000000094054C
Latest crash info for cpu 0:
Exception state (sv=0x2A086280)
PC=0x0094054C; MSR=0x00009030; DAR=0x3813334E; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x00940FA0; R1=0x174A3AD0; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
Backtrace:
0x00941F28 0x00940FA0 0x009385CC 0x0092A020 0x0027E650 0x00280324 0x0007AC48 0x00021668
0x0001BCE8 0x0001C0F0 0x00094318 0x00000000
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.GeForce(3.4.2)@0x923000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.4)@0x454000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily(1.3.5)@0x467000
dependency: com.apple.NVDAResman(3.4.2)@0x49d000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONDRVSupport(1.3.5)@0x487000
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x2A086280)
previously dumped as "Latest" state. skipping...
Exception state (sv=0x38383280)
PC=0x900078B8; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0xB2990000; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x90007438; R1=0xBFFEE490; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 7.9.0:
Wed Mar 30 20:11:17 PST 2005; root:xnu/xnu-517.12.7.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC


panic(cpu 0): 0x300 - Data access
Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
Backtrace:
0x00083498 0x0008397C 0x0001EDA4 0x00090C38 0x0009402C
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x2A086280)
PC=0x0094054C; MSR=0x00009030; DAR=0x3813334E; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x00940FA0; R1=0x174A3AD0; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
Backtrace:
0x00941F28 0x00940FA0 0x009385CC 0x0092A020 0x0027E650 0x00280324 0x0007AC48 0x00021668
0x0001BCE8 0x0001C0F0 0x00094318 0x00000000
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.GeForce(3.4.2)@0x923000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.4)@0x454000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily(1.3.5)@0x467000
dependency: com.apple.NVDAResman(3.4.2)@0x49d000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONDRVSupport(1.3.5)@0x487000
Exception state (sv=0x38383280)
PC=0x900078B8; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0xB2990000; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x90007438; R1=0xBFFEE490; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - Sp
*********

Wed Feb 28 22:30:04 2007




Unresolved kernel trap(cpu 0): 0x300 - Data access DAR=0x00000000384CF34E PC=0x0000000000940464
Latest crash info for cpu 0:
Exception state (sv=0x2A083780)
PC=0x00940464; MSR=0x00009030; DAR=0x384CF34E; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x0094044C; R1=0x176EBAD0; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
Backtrace:
0x00941F28 0x00940FA0 0x009385CC 0x0092A020 0x0027E650 0x00280324 0x0007AC48 0x00021668
0x0001BCE8 0x0001C0F0 0x00094318 0x00000000
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.GeForce(3.4.2)@0x923000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.4)@0x454000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily(1.3.5)@0x467000
dependency: com.apple.NVDAResman(3.4.2)@0x49d000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONDRVSupport(1.3.5)@0x487000
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x2A083780)
previously dumped as "Latest" state. skipping...
Exception state (sv=0x2A078A00)
PC=0x900078B8; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0x01843408; DSISR=0x0A000000; LR=0x90007438; R1=0xBFFEE490; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 7.9.0:
Wed Mar 30 20:11:17 PST 2005; root:xnu/xnu-517.12.7.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC


panic(cpu 0): 0x300 - Data access
Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
Backtrace:
0x00083498 0x0008397C 0x0001EDA4 0x00090C38 0x0009402C
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x2A083780)
PC=0x00940464; MSR=0x00009030; DAR=0x384CF34E; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x0094044C; R1=0x176EBAD0; XCP=0x0000000C (0x300 - Data access)
Backtrace:
0x00941F28 0x00940FA0 0x009385CC 0x0092A020 0x0027E650 0x00280324 0x0007AC48 0x00021668
0x0001BCE8 0x0001C0F0 0x00094318 0x00000000
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.GeForce(3.4.2)@0x923000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.4)@0x454000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily(1.3.5)@0x467000
dependency: com.apple.NVDAResman(3.4.2)@0x49d000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONDRVSupport(1.3.5)@0x487000
Exception state (sv=0x2A078A00)
PC=0x900078B8; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0x01843408; DSISR=0x0A000000; LR=0x90007438; R1=0xBFFEE490; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - Sp
*********

Thu Mar 1 18:15:20 2007


panic(cpu 0): Apparent UniNorth Hang: AGP STATUS = 0x00000004

Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
Backtrace:
0x00083498 0x0008397C 0x0001EDA4 0x009403C0 0x00940B3C 0x0092A5E0 0x0027E650 0x00280324
0x0007AC48 0x00021668 0x0001BCE8 0x0001C0F0 0x00094318 0x00610063
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.GeForce(3.4.2)@0x923000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.4)@0x454000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily(1.3.5)@0x467000
dependency: com.apple.NVDAResman(3.4.2)@0x49d000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONDRVSupport(1.3.5)@0x487000
com.apple.NVDAResman(3.4.2)@0x49d000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.4)@0x454000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily(1.3.5)@0x467000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONDRVSupport(1.3.5)@0x487000
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x38A96000)
PC=0x900078B8; MSR=0x0200F030; DAR=0xE0630000; DSISR=0x42000000; LR=0x90007438; R1=0xBFFEE5A0; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 7.9.0:
Wed Mar 30 20:11:17 PST 2005; root:xnu/xnu-517.12.7.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC



*********

Fri Mar 2 16:55:32 2007


panic(cpu 0): Apparent UniNorth Hang: AGP STATUS = 0x00000004

Latest stack backtrace for cpu 0:
Backtrace:
0x00083498 0x0008397C 0x0001EDA4 0x009403C0 0x00940918 0x0092B8E4 0x00281008 0x0007B320
0x00021668 0x0001BCE8 0x0001C0F0 0x00094318 0x00000000
Kernel loadable modules in backtrace (with dependencies):
com.apple.GeForce(3.4.2)@0x923000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOPCIFamily(1.4)@0x454000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IOGraphicsFamily(1.3.5)@0x467000
dependency: com.apple.NVDAResman(3.4.2)@0x49d000
dependency: com.apple.iokit.IONDRVSupport(1.3.5)@0x487000
Proceeding back via exception chain:
Exception state (sv=0x29F68500)
PC=0x900078B8; MSR=0x0000F030; DAR=0x002DF048; DSISR=0x40000000; LR=0x90007438; R1=0xBFFED920; XCP=0x00000030 (0xC00 - System call)

Kernel version:
Darwin Kernel Version 7.9.0:
Wed Mar 30 20:11:17 PST 2005; root:xnu/xnu-517.12.7.obj~1/RELEASE_PPC

robbieduncan
Mar 4, 2007, 06:01 PM
They all appear to occur in the graphics drivers. Either there's an issue with the drivers which you would expect to show up in everyone else's machines (which doesn't seem to be the case) or you have an issue with the graphics chip.

An OS reinstall might solve the issue if it's in the drivers but it might just end up the same anyway. And if it's an issue with the chip or the graphics RAM then it's new logic board time :(

dsyroi
Mar 4, 2007, 06:18 PM
thanks very much for your help on this. Wondering about a couple of things:
1. Would the Apple Hardware Test be able to tell me anything about the state of the graphics card or graphics ram? I ran it once, and I recall that one of the things it tests is "video ram" or something like that. I know there's an option to run the test for an extended period of time to troubleshoot intermittent problems, which I didn't do the first time.

2. Would it be a bad idea to revert back to 10.2?

iMacZealot
Mar 6, 2007, 10:38 PM
Sure, run the hardware test and see what it does.

Initially, it may not be such a bad idea, but as robbieduncan pointed out, it's probably a hardware issue. Plus, do downgrade your OS, you have to use the reinstall disks and complete erase your system. I tried reverting my iMac G3 from 10.3.9 back to 10.0, and everytime I started it up, it would make the mac chime VERY loudly, and would should a kernel panic log...the last line was "we are hanging here..." :). I restarted from the Panther disks, and it said that it would have to erase everything, but it sosmehow saved everything.

You could also try the Genius Bar and see what they say.

dsyroi
Mar 6, 2007, 10:52 PM
Sorry that I'm kind of running two threads on this, but since the last reply came here I'll respond here. I had run the extended test in loop mode (Apple Hardware Test) overnight and nothing showed up, but came home from work tonight and turned on my computer and the display was acting up again so I immediately ran the extended test and it detected an error in the video ram (error code "disp/13/3" if that means anything to anyone). It suggested unplugging peripherals and trying again so I unplugged the printer and ran the test again and everything showed okay. I'm not sure if this means anything since the problem seems to be intermittent anyway. Would appreciate any input on this: Should I be looking at replacing the video ram based on this (I'm assuming video ram is replaceable). Is this an expensive repair? Thanks for any help.

dsyroi
Mar 6, 2007, 10:53 PM
what's Genius Bar?

velocityg4
Mar 6, 2007, 11:10 PM
I have experienced this exact problem before with my G4 iMac. Your video card is most likely faulty. I am sorry to say, since the video card is a part of your motherboard it would require replacement of your motherboard. If you went through Apple or a repair center the repair would cost more than the resale value of your computer. You may be able to find a motherboard on ebay for cheap in the Apple components section.

Your other option would be to sell it as is on ebay or part it out (which would get you more money for it)

iMacZealot
Mar 6, 2007, 11:13 PM
I'm not sure, but I don't think it is.

The Genius Bar is this amazing place in the back of the Apple Retail Stores where you can schedule an appointment with a Genius to help solve your problems. It's a great place for when you need help, but it's only at Apple Retail Stores. I'd recommend going to one if there's one in your area.

dsyroi
Mar 6, 2007, 11:20 PM
Not what I wanted to hear, but thanks for the input. Seems like I might be "throwing good money after bad" replacing the logic board at this point, since I had to put a new one in less than 1.5 years ago.

dsyroi
Mar 6, 2007, 11:22 PM
Sounds great, but no Apple Stores in Vancouver Canada.

eRondeau
Mar 6, 2007, 11:55 PM
Sorry if I'm late for the party, but to clarify -- the OSX install/restore discs that ship with the various Mac models are customized to install on that model only. I don't believe they're keyed by serial number of anything like that. They simply don't include drivers for all the things that aren't available for that specific model Mac. However the store-bought OSX original packages include ALL the possible driver options for ALL the different computers, so no matter what you install it on -- it'll have what it needs to work.

I'm no expert, but I wonder if maybe the replacement hard drive you installed had its OSX intended for a slightly different model Mac? Possibly pre-configured for a different display driver or a Rev.A instead of Rev.B? Before you throw the baby out with the bathwater (so to speak...) I'd buy an original copy of Panther or Tiger and do a clean install. It seems like a relatively cheap investment.