OSX bugs...wait to buy? [Archive]

EngBrian

Mar 5, 2007, 09:26 PM

nazmac21

Mar 5, 2007, 09:29 PM

Wait until 10.5.1 before you buy. 10.5.0 might be a little bit buggy.

apfhex

Mar 5, 2007, 09:29 PM

It's hard to say because Leopard has been in development a bit longer than the previous point releases of OS X. I've personally not had any problems with 10.x.0 releases, but if stability is really, really really important and you can wait, then it probably wouldn't be a bad idea.

EngBrian

Mar 5, 2007, 09:32 PM

I guess I should have included this in the original post but:

I realize that this is a variable but what is the typical timeline for 10.x.1 release? ie 1 month after initial release?

thanks

nazmac21

Mar 5, 2007, 09:37 PM

I guess I should have included this in the original post but:

I realize that this is a variable but what is the typical timeline for 10.x.1 release? ie 1 month after initial release?

thanks

10.5.1 will probably be released 2-3 weeks later after 10.5.0 is released.

EngBrian

Mar 5, 2007, 09:39 PM

10.5.1 will probably be released 2-3 weeks later after 10.5.0 is released.

Well that is a reasonable amount of time to wait to ensure a possibly better first experience.

Thanks for the quick responses.

taylorwilsdon

Mar 5, 2007, 09:41 PM

Well that is a reasonable amount of time to wait to ensure a possibly better first experience.

Thanks for the quick responses.

But who cares? Its going to be tiny things, just buy it and upgrade 2 or 3 weeks later. No point in delaying the inevitable.

orangemacapple

Mar 5, 2007, 09:49 PM

it'll work fine. don't worry about it. it's been tested, so you probably won't notice any bugs if there any, and you'll get the update the day it is available if there is a bug or enhancement.

EngBrian

Mar 5, 2007, 09:52 PM

But who cares? Its going to be tiny things, just buy it and upgrade 2 or 3 weeks later. No point in delaying the inevitable.

Ya i just wanted my first experience with something new to be the best. And not tainted with bugs. I do get where you are coming from though.

I guess in the end if i place an order the day it is released it would be awhile coming anyway even under normal circumstances. Prolly looking at a wait time of a week or two but with an assumed influx of new orders around that time the wait could be increased and this is a non-issue. Although that is based on some assumptions I suppose such as no foresight on apples behalf in terms of "stocking up".

iW00t

Mar 6, 2007, 12:44 AM

EngBrian

Mar 6, 2007, 09:56 AM

Why bother waiting?

It is not like Apple charges money for point release updates?

Besides if you need a computer, what are you going to get? Windows Vista? With no updates due out until the end of this year? All that trouble for the "wow"? :cool:

The moment the hardware in the line is updated with the new Socket P chips with Leopard and iLife 07 I'm sure many here will jump on board immediately.

Ya I wasn't concerned about being charged for an update. And I am certainly not going for Vista. I am already set on purchasing a mac it is just a matter of waiting and I am willing to do that. I have done so for the past 20+ years I can wait another 2 or 3 months.

mattscott306

Mar 6, 2007, 09:58 AM

I'd say jump the gun as soon as it comes out. The bugs WON'T be major, so your experiance should be fine. Hardware and software are completely different when it comes to waiting, always wait for revision 2 on hardware, but software you should always be safe with the first release.

EngBrian

Mar 6, 2007, 11:33 PM

I guess I am getting a bit of both here: buy right away or wait a couple weeks. Although the buy right away crowd seems to have more support.

Who knows what I will do when the time comes but it will prolly be hard to calm the trigger finger.

thanks again for the responses all.

displaced

Mar 7, 2007, 03:03 AM

Add me to the 'go for it!' list :)

10.5.0 will most likely have some rough edges, but they're not going to be 'showstopper' bugs. If this is your first Mac, you're likely to spend the first few weeks experimenting with the system itself and the included Apple apps, which are going to be pretty reliable. 3rd party developers are historiaclly very good at getting their apps tweaked to run trouble-free on a new OS and there's always the excellent resource of user comments at sites such as macupdate.com which will give pointers about Leopard compatibility within days of the OS release.

(on a side note, that's one of the things I like so much about the experience of moving to a new major version of OS X. There's a real sense of the developer community pulling together to get their apps running great on the new OS. There's also going to be a raft of updates and new apps which take advantage of the cool stuff Leopard offers right from day one).

shikimo

Mar 7, 2007, 04:20 AM

I used to get the new OS right away, but with Leopard and Tiger I waited, ran the .8 or .9 or whatever from the previous version for a few months, and then upgraded.

This left me with fewer problems, and all I lost was the thrill of loading up a new OS that most people hadn't seen yet.

I'm not saying the folks who tell you to buy right away are wrong, per se...but there's no question that, purely from an operational standpoint, you have nothing to lose by waiting, and you may have something to gain. Especially for a switcher...if I were you I would wait until Leopard is released, order a new Mac loaded with a nice happy stable version of Tiger, and then upgrade with the little voucher that they should include with computers purchased in the after-release/before-shipping window.

The enthusiasts posting here are PROBABLY right, Leopard will PROBABLY not be released with any major problems, but it's far from a sure thing.

GreatDrok

Mar 7, 2007, 06:37 AM

I upgraded to Tiger as soon as it was available. Mostly, it was a significant improvement over Panther but I did have a lot of trouble with opening shells in Terminal or xterm. As I am mainly a UNIX guy this was almost a show stopper for me and I complained directly to Apple quite a bit. In the end, it took until 10.4.5 before this bug was properly fixed. If you were not impacted by this (such as people who don't do command line stuff) then Tiger was probably pretty solid even at release.

I will probably buy Leopard as soon as it is available (family pack) and upgrade my machines one at a time and see how it goes. If I was in the market for a new machine now (OK, probably going to buy a Mac Pro in a few months) then I wouldn't worry. Tiger is very nice and stable and has lots of great features for any switcher. Buy Leopard later in the year once it has been out for a few months. I don't expect Leopard to appear before June anyway but am willing to be surprised :eek:

Texas04

Mar 7, 2007, 06:42 AM

You also may have a problem with programs that are not yet optimized for Leopard. I remember when Tiger came out everything was just ready for Panther.. not so much Tiger until a few months after it came out.

cwedl

Mar 7, 2007, 06:44 AM

It depends on what it will be used for, my macs are just for messing around on. so I will get 10.5.0 but I'm sure some people who use their macs for work may want to wait a while to make sure all known issues are sorted so they don't loose productivity.

Steven Jackson

Mar 7, 2007, 07:32 AM

I got 10.4.0 the day it was released and didn't have any major problems. There were a few annoying bugs, however. Then again, because these were fairly minor things they weren't fixed in 10.4.1 anyway. I think I had to wait 'till about 10.4.4 before I stopped noticing strange stuff.

Steve

EngBrian

Mar 7, 2007, 09:11 AM

As I am mainly a UNIX guy this was almost a show stopper for me and I complained directly to Apple quite a bit. In the end, it took until 10.4.5 before this bug was properly fixed. If you were not impacted by this (such as people who don't do command line stuff) then Tiger was probably pretty solid even at release.

I am mostly going to be using this as my home base computer. I want a media friendly computer that my wife and I can use (read: terminal is not really going to be touched unless it is to fiddle with minor things). So based on most of the above comments it would seem unless I am looking too closely I might not even notice bugs when I am just using iLife, safari and mail type stuff to start. Eventually I will get into 3rd party but as someone said the first few weeks will be playing around and wondering why I didn't switch earlier (or at least I hope that is my sentiment).

My school computer is a PC so that I can run the programs I need. The only reason it is a PC is that the purchasing guy only works with that and we didn't really need to pay the premium for a mac for the research I am doing.

Buy Leopard later in the year once it has been out for a few months. I don't expect Leopard to appear before June anyway but am willing to be surprised.

I guess I should add that I am also waiting to see what education incentives are available. I am expecting that if a promotion is available the timing would be around Leopard time anyway. I may not be an undergrad anymore but I still have that option available to me.

cubbie5150

Mar 7, 2007, 11:58 AM

I took delivery yesterday of my first Mac ever (a 15" MBP)... For the past 4 months, I've waited to buy b/c I thought I'd wait until Santa Rosa & Leopard were released. I finally decided that the MBP, even though it'll be refreshed w/ Santa Rosa soon, was worthy of purchase precisely b/c it may be near the end of it's current life cylce--I figure the bugs should be worked out. Same thing w/ Tiger; I don't mind paying for Leopard once it's released, and the bugs are worked out. If worrying about your first Mac experieince being positive, and you can afford to buy Leopard later, my opinion is start out w/ Tiger as it's stable. IMO, it kicks the crap out of Windows (but you all knew that already). I have the feeling my windows machine won't be used very much...

EngBrian

Mar 7, 2007, 12:04 PM

If worrying about your first Mac experieince being positive, and you can afford to buy Leopard later, my opinion is start out w/ Tiger as it's stable.

Well at this point (still starving student) I can't afford to buy leopard later. So my options are basically wait until it is released or wait until announced and see if they offer the voucher for free upgrade between announcement and release (as someone previously said).

The hardware is not the issue though. I agree that buying the first round of new hardware is probably worse than buying first round of software. I am happy with the current lineup especially because I will not be doing any intense computing. Likely looking at a 20" imac to start.

cubbie5150

Mar 7, 2007, 12:30 PM

Well at this point (still starving student) I can't afford to buy leopard later. So my options are basically wait until it is released or wait until announced and see if they offer the voucher for free upgrade between announcement and release (as someone previously said).

The hardware is not the issue though. I agree that buying the first round of new hardware is probably worse than buying first round of software. I am happy with the current lineup especially because I will not be doing any intense computing. Likely looking at a 20" imac to start.

I get what you're saying....been out of law school for (my god!!) 12 years now, but I still remember being a starving student.... Ahhh, loved those Ramen noodles...

LethalWolfe

Mar 7, 2007, 01:02 PM

I'd only hop onto 10.5.0 if I've done a complete back up that I can re-install if things get screwy. The odds of major malfunctions are low, but I remember when a new Mac OS (I think it was either Panther or Tiger) fubared some FW drives and people lost everything on them. D'oh.

I'd rather avoid things like that than be the first person on my block w/the new Mac OS. I'm more than happy to let other people find all the pitfalls. :D

Lethal

crees!

Mar 7, 2007, 01:10 PM

I searched around and couldn't find something on this (not to say it isn't out there but my searches came up with nothing).

I am going to buy my first mac within a few months and willing to wait until Leopard is released. Based on past releases should I wait for awhile after the release to avoid a bugs (ie. 10.5.1 release)? or is the initial release, on the whole, reasonably good from the start? I just want to avoid my first mac experience being a pain because I am dealing with bugs.

Thanks for any advice.

You came from using a Windows PC correct? Well Windows IS a BUG. I will be purchasing Leopard the SECOND it is available. Call me crazy.

sandman42

Mar 7, 2007, 01:42 PM

I don't think any of the previous respondents has said this explicitly: since this will be your 'first Mac experience' you may not know that updates on this platform are really, really painless (and as has previously been mentioned, free).

The Software Updater utility very reliably scans your computer (automatically on a schedule or manually whenever you want) and determines if all of your Apple software (including the OS) is completely up to date, and then downloads and installs the updates for you. All you may need to do is restart (for updates that require it) after the installation is complete. For someone who has not dealt with Apple software before, it is pretty slick.

For that reason, there's really no reason to wait. Incidentally, even if you do wait, when the update comes out all the computers on the shelves in all the stores will still be loaded with 10.x.0, so you'll have to update right away anyway or wait even longer for those units to be purged and replaced with units loaded with 10.x.1.

Don't wait. 10.x.0 releases work just fine.

matthew24

Mar 7, 2007, 02:48 PM

I suppose you are running XP at the moment, XP does not have any chance against Leopard, so waiting does not make any sense to me!:) :apple: :)

digiguy23

Mar 7, 2007, 03:05 PM

I searched around and couldn't find something on this (not to say it isn't out there but my searches came up with nothing).

I am going to buy my first mac within a few months and willing to wait until Leopard is released. Based on past releases should I wait for awhile after the release to avoid a bugs (ie. 10.5.1 release)? or is the initial release, on the whole, reasonably good from the start? I just want to avoid my first mac experience being a pain because I am dealing with bugs.

Thanks for any advice.

No version is perfect. Every release will have some bug that will effect some MacUser or Window user out there in the world. In all the 25 years I've been using PC's and Macs, I have had no problems with any release of the operating system. Only 3rd party device drivers seem to wreak havoc with my systems.

EngBrian

Mar 7, 2007, 07:40 PM

You came from using a Windows PC correct? Well Windows IS a BUG. I will be purchasing Leopard the SECOND it is available. Call me crazy.

Well I will be honest, Windows has it problems but I have never had major problems with it, and I don't hold a grudge. I do get tired of the annual format/reinstall but other than that my hardware has been my downfall. Vid card and harddrive failures and now one of my fans needs a little nudge to get it going after it has been off. But this obviously has nothing to do with MS.

EngBrian

Mar 7, 2007, 07:43 PM

I don't think any of the previous respondents has said this explicitly: since this will be your 'first Mac experience' you may not know that upgrades on this platform are really, really painless (and has previously been mentioned, free).

The Software Updater utility very reliably scans your computer (automatically on a schedule or manually whenever you want) and determines if all of your Apple software (including the OS) is completely up to date, and then downloads and installs the updates for you. All you may need to do is restart (for updates that require it) after the installation is complete. For someone who has not dealt with Apple software before, it is pretty slick.

I only know of the Windows equivalent so forgive my ignorance. But I do like to control what is being updated. Does OSX update have a "advanced user/custom" option to just install the updates I want?

EngBrian

Mar 7, 2007, 07:47 PM

I suppose you are running XP at the moment, XP does not have any chance against Leopard, so waiting does not make any sense to me!:) :apple: :)

The wait has nothing to do with doubt about which OS is superior. It was more of a bug concern. As I said before after getting both sides "wait and don't wait" i think I am going to have to see what happens in the moment.

sandman42

Mar 8, 2007, 03:01 AM

I only know of the Windows equivalent so forgive my ignorance. But I do like to control what is being updated. Does OSX update have a "advanced user/custom" option to just install the updates I want?

Absolutely. When the updater runs, and finds that there are updates that are applicable to your machine, you are presented with a list of all of the available updates, along with some info about each one. You can select which updates you want to install, and which you don't. Trust us, the Apple experience is much more friendly and cooperative -- and non-totalitarian -- than the Windows experience. I'll try to post an image of the updater window later.

SavageLLama77

Mar 8, 2007, 06:20 AM

irishgrizzly

Mar 8, 2007, 07:41 AM

tuartboy

Mar 8, 2007, 09:45 AM

I'm really wondering how important this release will be for regular users. As a developer I know there are many new technologies and updated libraries to play with in 10.5, and this may spill over into better 3rd-party software. However, I just don't (yet) see anything to get ma and pa all excited in Leopard. (Or should I say: nothing to get excited about that I haven't been using for years in 3rd-party apps...)

Apple seem to alternate releases between dev-centric and user-centric major point updates (eg. 10.4 to 10.5). Tiger was very user-centric. I have a feeling Leopard may be more focused towards developers.

We still have a bit to wait on the extra details kept from WWDC '06. I'll still update right away, but I'm not sure if we should be *terribly* excited.

EngBrian

Mar 8, 2007, 11:43 AM

Absolutely. When the updater runs, and finds that there are updates that are applicable to your machine, you are presented with a list of all of the available updates, along with some info about each one. You can select which updates you want to install, and which you don't. Trust us, the Apple experience is much more friendly and cooperative -- and non-totalitarian -- than the Windows experience. I'll try to post an image of the updater window later.

Sounds good I will check for the screenshot later. But I have to say with the Windows updater as long as you don't click on the "express" option and go with "custom" instead you will get a list of available updates and a short explanation about what it will do. I am not saying it is better or worse I am just saying that in text it sounds similar. Regardless that is not something holding me back from mac or something that I am complaining about; I am just curious.

EngBrian

Mar 8, 2007, 11:53 AM

Lemme get this straight....you're concerned whether or not to buy Leopard (if it has bugs) when, even if it does, it will be updated and won't matter if you waited or bought it the day it came out?:confused:

I am confused with what you are trying to say...let me read again...(and if my interpretation of what you are trying to say is off let me know)

Alright, just to get the basics out of the way: I am definately buying a mac in the coming months, this is not the issue. I am waiting for Leopard to be announced/released to buy and I am using the experience in this forum to give me the pros and cons of jumping on board at version 10.5.0.

So with that out of the way...my original question was: will 10.5.0 be buggy (based on "your" previous experiences with 10.x.0 releases) in which case should I hold off purchasing until 10.5.1 is released to let the masses work through/report the bugs for me or are the bugs minor enough not to affect my first mac experience.

And now after a couple days both camps (wait/don't wait) are telling me the pros and cons. So thanks all...it is helpful.

SavageLLama77

Mar 8, 2007, 02:26 PM

I am confused with what you are trying to say...let me read again...(and if my interpretation of what you are trying to say is off let me know)

Alright, just to get the basics out of the way: I am definately buying a mac in the coming months, this is not the issue. I am waiting for Leopard to be announced/released to buy and I am using the experience in this forum to give me the pros and cons of jumping on board at version 10.5.0.

So with that out of the way...my original question was: will 10.5.0 be buggy (based on "your" previous experiences with 10.x.0 releases) in which case should I hold off purchasing until 10.5.1 is released to let the masses work through/report the bugs for me or are the bugs minor enough not to affect my first mac experience.

And now after a couple days both camps (wait/don't wait) are telling me the pros and cons. So thanks all...it is helpful.
Well, the question I would need to be answered is, "Does buying 10.5.0, and then upgrading it to 10.5.1, mean it will be the SAME as just buying Leopard after 10.5.1 is released? What's the risk in buying 10.5.0 and then upgrading it through a free software update? I just don't get it:rolleyes:

sandman42

Mar 8, 2007, 03:50 PM

Sounds good I will check for the screenshot later.

Here it is. Sounds like the Windows and Apple updaters are similar. I can say from experience that the Apple 'experience' regarding updates is very good, as in very well managed. No experience with Windows updater.

jayb2000

Mar 8, 2007, 04:13 PM

Much of what 10.5 is based on is the same as 10.4.9.
Not everything, but enough that the initial release will probably be fine.

I am hoping to get a new computer when 10.5 comes out. I want a MBP, but might do an iMac to get a bit more bang for the buck.

EngBrian

Mar 8, 2007, 05:56 PM

Well, the question I would need to be answered is, "Does buying 10.5.0, and then upgrading it to 10.5.1, mean it will be the SAME as just buying Leopard after 10.5.1 is released? What's the risk in buying 10.5.0 and then upgrading it through a free software update? I just don't get it:rolleyes:

Well I was thinking that if 10.5.0 had some bugs when it was released to the public then buying a mac after 10.5.1 was released would be better. I was not saying it would be buggy because I don't have experience with OSX to know what the first release is like. I guess my background is Windows and with windows I wait for a service pack to be released so I don't have to worry as much about: compatibility issues, security etc...

And I didn't think it would be a "risky" move to get Leopard hot off the presses. I would, however, like to avoid annoying problems that might not make my first few weeks on a mac as pleasant as it might be if I waited for 10.5.1 . But the point of the this thread was to find out if there were typically any troublesome bugs at all upon release.

If that doesn't make sense I honestly don't know how else to explain where I am coming from.

EngBrian

Mar 8, 2007, 06:00 PM

Here it is. Sounds like the Windows and Apple updaters are similar. I can say from experience that the Apple 'experience' regarding updates is very good, as in very well managed. No experience with Windows updater.

They obviously look very different but it seems based on that shot that the function is the same and the option of what to install is good. That is exactly the kind of control I want over what ends up on my computer. I don't like things just doing their own thing (when it comes to updates) even though I usually end up putting everything on.

Thanks

LethalWolfe

Mar 8, 2007, 06:13 PM

SavageLLama77

Mar 8, 2007, 09:00 PM

He's asking whether or not he should get 10.5.0 the day it comes out and risk any "new release" bugs/issues or whether he should play it safe and wait until 10.5.1 to upgrade from Tiger so he skips the previously mentioned bugs.

Lethal

Oh, so he wants his first few days of Leopard to be 'just perfect' for the sake of a memorable experience with no flaws? I would be more excited to get Leopard as soon as I could, I wouldn't care about the bugs as they would get fixed anyway.:)

EngBrian

Mar 8, 2007, 09:37 PM

Oh, so he wants his first few days of Leopard to be 'just perfect' for the sake of a memorable experience with no flaws? I would be more excited to get Leopard as soon as I could, I wouldn't care about the bugs as they would get fixed anyway.:)

It isn't like I am going to look back on that day like I would my wedding day. But yes I would like to have a great first experience with a new product and totally new OS. I don't want little things getting in the way of the big picture.

shikimo

Mar 9, 2007, 02:32 AM

As a counter point to all these posts, the place where I work has a policy of updating to the last version of software when it reaches it's final release. So we are only going to install tiger 10.4.9 when 10.5 is released. This way they cut down on compatibility issues with different 3rd party software and get a stable OS to work with from day one.

Personally I'd be too impatient to wait to do that with my mac at home, but it works for them.

While this is a little extreme for home application, the way of thinking is sound...

Well, the question I would need to be answered is, "Does buying 10.5.0, and then upgrading it to 10.5.1, mean it will be the SAME as just buying Leopard after 10.5.1 is released? What's the risk in buying 10.5.0 and then upgrading it through a free software update? I just don't get it:rolleyes:

You've obviously never lost a whole bunch of data because of a bug in 10.x.0 that was fixed in a a later firmware upgrade :mad: . I know it's rare--and yes I know it was my fault for not being properly backed up--but the fact remains that it can happen, and for a switcher who is unfamiliar with the particularities of keeping OS X healthy and happy (however simple and friendly they may be), why not recommend a start with an uber-solid Tiger, hopefully purchased with a happy little Leopard voucher?

Besides, the above poster is right: for a basic user, Leopard doesn't look too much like it's gonna be that much different than the latest Tiger reincarnation. Add the inevitable 3rd-party compatibility issues while everyone is optimising their drivers, etc. for Leopard...call me a safenik, but I still recommend a Tiger start.