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macshui
Mar 7, 2007, 02:47 PM
I'm considering purchasing an Apple TV for the Family Room. However, I'm curious whether it might be worth it to spend a few hundred dollars extra to purchase a Mac Mini to hook up to the TV (my TV has a computer input). I would like to play movies, TV shows, and music through iTunes, as well as display photos.

I currently have a new Airport Extreme-n wireless network that can accommodate a hard drive on which to store most of my media.

The added benefits of the Mac Mini are obvious (fully functioning computer). What functionality, if any, though, will I be missing out on by not having the Apple TV?

Thanks for the advice.



macshui
Mar 23, 2007, 11:30 PM
*Bump* to see if anyone has any insight, now that the product has been released.

zap2
Mar 23, 2007, 11:36 PM
AppleTV
-Better GPU
-Faster Syncing(if one has a wirless N router)
-Easier set up
-cheap


Mac Mini
-Full Computer
-Can add DVR if wanted
-FrontRow, which is still pretty nice/




I'd go AppleTV unless DVR is a must for you

clevin
Mar 24, 2007, 08:26 AM
AppleTV
-Better GPU
-Faster Syncing(if one has a wirless N router)
-Easier set up
-cheap

Mac Mini
-Full Computer
-Can add DVR if wanted
-FrontRow, which is still pretty nice/
I'd go AppleTV unless DVR is a must for you

Mini is hooked directly to TV, faster than any sync.
What kind of GPU in ATV? i didn't find any info on that, but to play a Movie(and non-HD), what good can a better GPU (if it is) do?
Mini is really easy to set up too.
I only agree ATV is cheaper than mini, but it only does 10% of what mini can.

MacinJosh
Mar 24, 2007, 08:34 AM
I've given this thought myself and have come to the following conclusion:

I'd get a Mac Mini. Why? It's a full computer and does everything ATV does and more. It's capable of Full-HD (ATV isn't) so browsing the web with a BT mouse and kbd would be great from the couch. I imagine playing WoW from a big screen would be an experience as well. Hook up an Eye-TV and you have a DVR. The possibilities are endless. Sure, the ATV has a really nice interface but that doesn't stop anyone from coding a similar one for the Mac.

Joshua.

Jimmdean
Mar 24, 2007, 09:59 AM
Be warned that the VGA input on your tv may not be plug-and-play with the Mac Mini. It's quite possible you'll plug it in and get no picture at all because the mini isn't sending the right resolution/timing to the television. If this happens, you'll need to set up a VNC session to your mini from another pc and manually change those settings with something like displayconfigx or switchresx until you get it right - may require a lot of tweaking!!!

Just fyi (btw - I have a Pioneer SD533HD5 - component and VGA input only)

MacinJosh
Mar 24, 2007, 10:15 AM
Be warned that the VGA input on your tv may not be plug-and-play with the Mac Mini. It's quite possible you'll plug it in and get no picture at all because the mini isn't sending the right resolution/timing to the television. If this happens, you'll need to set up a VNC session to your mini from another pc and manually change those settings with something like displayconfigx or switchresx until you get it right - may require a lot of tweaking!!!

Just fyi (btw - I have a Pioneer SD533HD5 - component and VGA input only)

Quite right. Also an important thing to consider is whether or not the TV is capable of 1:1 pixel mapping. A surprising amount of TVs are not capable of that. That means that if you have one of those weird resolution (1366x768) TVs, they are not able to display that resolution through HDMI, VGA or both connectors. Some will only display 1280x720 scaled to full resolution, some will only display 1024x768 (while 1:1 it still leaves bars on the sides as it is a 4:3 resolution). Gotta be real careful these days when purchasing a flat screen TV.

Joshua.

zap2
Mar 24, 2007, 10:56 AM
Mini is hooked directly to TV, faster than any sync.
What kind of GPU in ATV? i didn't find any info on that, but to play a Movie(and non-HD), what good can a better GPU (if it is) do?
Mini is really easy to set up too.
I only agree ATV is cheaper than mini, but it only does 10% of what mini can.

The Mini isn't easier if all my Media is on my main Mac, I'd have to move all of it...much easier to sync it with over Wi-Fi.

Better GPU makes for some nice effect...its not all that important, but still cool.

The set up on an AppleTV was easier...all I had to do was sync with my Mac. The Mac Mini would involve setting up features, getting all your data on it ect.

The AppleTV does everything the Mac Mini does for a media center...other then support for DVR, which some have/don't need, and since its half the price it well worth it, if your looking for an iTunes solution for your media center

clevin
Mar 24, 2007, 11:05 AM
The Mini isn't easier if all my Media is on my main Mac, I'd have to move all of it...much easier to sync it with over Wi-Fi.

Better GPU makes for some nice effect...its not all that important, but still cool.

The set up on an AppleTV was easier...all I had to do was sync with my Mac. The Mac Mini would involve setting up features, getting all your data on it ect.

The AppleTV does everything the Mac Mini does for a media center...other then support for DVR, which some have/don't need, and since its half the price it well worth it, if your looking for an iTunes solution for your media center

tell me again what GPU is in ATV? I just couldn't find any info on that :confused: :confused:
u can enable file sharing on ur main mac, and then u can stream the video to mini too, I did this alot.

truth to be told, mini is more than a media center, much more, and even as a media center, what ATV can do and Mini can't?

EDIT: Never mind, I find it, its a nVidia G72M with 64MB DDR2 video memory, also the whole system has a Intel 1G CPU +256MB memory, its strange combination, I don't know how to comment on this.

tkidBOSTON
Mar 24, 2007, 11:25 AM
I've kind of been wondering the same thing recently.
I'm in the market for an HDTV and I was thinking about getting a mini for it and hooking up my eyetv and 500GB external HD and using that as my entertainment hub.
However, with :apple:tv out, I was thinking about going the cheaper and easier route of just getting that.

If I'm purchasing everything from scratch, would it be easy enough to get a TV that plays nice with the mini and going that route?

zap2
Mar 24, 2007, 11:37 AM
tell me again what GPU is in ATV? I just couldn't find any info on that :confused: :confused:
u can enable file sharing on ur main mac, and then u can stream the video to mini too, I did this alot.

truth to be told, mini is more than a media center, much more, and even as a media center, what ATV can do and Mini can't?

EDIT: Never mind, I find it, its a nVidia G72M with 64MB DDR2 video memory, also the whole system has a Intel 1G CPU +256MB memory, its strange combination, I don't know how to comment on this.


Streaming is a fine...but I'd rather having the main things on its hard drive. What can the ATV do that the Mini can't


1) Sync and download up to 5 iTunes Library(having on the harddrive is much better then streaming, no lag, network problems don't effect it.

2) Can't check top Movies, Music Videos, TV shows and Music in Media Center(in Front Row on the Mac...you'll need a mouse and keyboard)

3)HDMI/ Component out...Mac Mini only does DVI/VGA out unless you buy an adapoter


Plus its 1/2 the price, and since it meets my Media Center needs so perfectly, I feel no reason to put out another 300+ for a Mac Mini...of course I don't a have a problem if someone does

clevin
Mar 24, 2007, 11:39 AM
I've kind of been wondering the same thing recently.
I'm in the market for an HDTV and I was thinking about getting a mini for it and hooking up my eyetv and 500GB external HD and using that as my entertainment hub.
However, with :apple:tv out, I was thinking about going the cheaper and easier route of just getting that.

If I'm purchasing everything from scratch, would it be easy enough to get a TV that plays nice with the mini and going that route?
the thing is u need to ask yourself if ATV is good enough for you, since now we know what it can do, and what it can't, if its good enough for you, then go for it, if not, u might want to go the other way.

Jimmdean
Mar 24, 2007, 11:42 AM
I've kind of been wondering the same thing recently.
I'm in the market for an HDTV and I was thinking about getting a mini for it and hooking up my eyetv and 500GB external HD and using that as my entertainment hub.
However, with :apple:tv out, I was thinking about going the cheaper and easier route of just getting that.

If I'm purchasing everything from scratch, would it be easy enough to get a TV that plays nice with the mini and going that route?

Not the current mini, but maybe the next one. It's quite likely there would be at least a small upgrade in GPU. The GMA950 is really the only weakness of the mini that cannot be bypassed... Obviously we'd all like Core 2 CPUs as well (without having to do it yourself).

clevin
Mar 24, 2007, 11:44 AM
Streaming is a fine...but I'd rather having the main things on its hard drive. What can the ATV do that the Mini can't


1) Sync and download up to 5 iTunes Library(having on the harddrive is much better then streaming, no lag, network problems don't effect it.

2) Can't check top Movies, Music Videos, TV shows and Music in Media Center(in Front Row on the Mac...you'll need a mouse and keyboard)

3)HDMI/ Component out...Mac Mini only does DVI/VGA out unless you buy an adapoter


Plus its 1/2 the price, and since it meets my Media Center needs so perfectly, I feel no reason to put out another 300+ for a Mac Mini...of course I don't a have a problem if someone does

thats what i feel strange, ATV's CPU/Memory isn't good enough for HD content, so i wonder how much difference would VGA/HDMI make for the videos.

about checking top movies, etc, I assume those are all the features in iTunes, are they? sure interface on ATV will be easy to use, but mini sure can do it.

ATV only has 40G harddrive, while mini has 60G at least....

jsw
Mar 24, 2007, 11:45 AM
I've got an Apple TV and a 1st gen mini core duo connected to my 37" 1080p HDTV.

If it were me, and you're not sure, I'd go with the Apple TV. It's less than half the price - you need to bump RAM on the mini - and it gives you most of what the mini does from a media center point of view.

I love my mini. Love it. Love being able to record HD from my cable box with just a Firewire cable using iRecord (a plus for the mini). Love "real" OS X on it.

But... the keyboard and mouse are often a hassle in the family room. And you can't see the full resolution well from the couch anyway (maybe a 60" HDTV would be much better). And there's the need-to-login bit, etc.

The Apple TV just plugs in and works - assuming you have another system with the media on it to stream/cache. If you have another system, get the Apple TV and save up for a much better mini in six months or so.

If you don't have another system with media on it, then get the mini. It is better in almost all respects... but it's more awkward to use purely for media, it's more expensive, and it needs a KB and mouse.

Jimmdean
Mar 24, 2007, 11:47 AM
thats what i feel strange, ATV's CPU/Memory isn't good enough for HD content, so i wonder how much difference would VGA/HDMI make for the videos.

about checking top movies, etc, I assume those are all the features in iTunes, are they? sure interface on ATV will be easy to use, but mini sure can do it.

ATV only has 40G harddrive, while mini has 60G at least....

I'm not sure where you got that it wasn't good enough. Besides, that's more of a function of GPU anyway. I'm no expert on this particular NVIDIA chip, but if it has all the right support in hardware, CPU/memory won't matter much...

clevin
Mar 24, 2007, 11:50 AM
I'm not sure where you got that it wasn't good enough. Besides, that's more of a function of GPU anyway. I'm no expert on this particular NVIDIA chip, but if it has all the right support in hardware, CPU/memory won't matter much...

Ok, now i re-write this part.
I think HD content ask for CPU and Memory, as well as GPU, not a "more GPU function".
Here is Apple quicktime's HD playback system requirement

QuickTime 7 for Mac OS X: (For 1280x720 (720p) video at 24-30 frames per second:)

* 1.8 GHz PowerMac G5 or faster Macintosh computer; 1.83 GHz Intel Core Duo or faster
* At least 256MB of RAM
* 64 MB or greater video card


For 1920x1080 (1080p) video at 24 frames per second:
QuickTime 7 for Mac OS X:

* Dual 2.0 GHz PowerMac G5 or faster Macintosh computer; 2.0 GHz Intel Core Duo or faster
* At least 512MB of RAM
* 128MB or greater video card



Which means the current ATV can't handle HD-content above 480p.

Jimmdean
Mar 24, 2007, 11:54 AM
oh, lol, I don't think so, maybe u want to check out the system requirement for playing HD-DVD or Blue-Ray. Its not GPU depended, and I m sure 1G CPU+256MB Ram is FAR from enough.

You'll have to quote the specs you're referring to, but it's likely they are referring to systems with GPUs that do not have hardware h.264 acceleration. AppleTV's NVIDIA GPU does.

clevin
Mar 24, 2007, 11:59 AM
You'll have to quote the specs you're referring to, but it's likely they are referring to systems with GPUs that do not have hardware h.264 acceleration. AppleTV's NVIDIA GPU does.

I just modified my post, and improved my own knowledge too, check it out :D

Jimmdean
Mar 24, 2007, 12:07 PM
I just modified my post, and improved my own knowledge too, check it out :D

Like I said, specs for systems that do not have hardware acceleration for h.264.
This GPU does have it. As for how much it helps, who knows. All we really know is that it does have a measley CPU, but can still accept and display 720P, and even upscale to 1080i. It might even do more if Apple decides to upgrade via firmware later on...

clevin
Mar 24, 2007, 05:15 PM
Like I said, specs for systems that do not have hardware acceleration for h.264.
This GPU does have it. As for how much it helps, who knows. All we really know is that it does have a measley CPU, but can still accept and display 720P, and even upscale to 1080i. It might even do more if Apple decides to upgrade via firmware later on...

well, lets just wait and see if HD video of >700p will be there for this thing soon, right now its kinda empty talking, all videos in itunes are 480p only anyway.

zap2
Mar 24, 2007, 09:15 PM
thats what i feel strange, ATV's CPU/Memory isn't good enough for HD content, so i wonder how much difference would VGA/HDMI make for the videos.

about checking top movies, etc, I assume those are all the features in iTunes, are they? sure interface on ATV will be easy to use, but mini sure can do it.

ATV only has 40G harddrive, while mini has 60G at least....

Yes, you can do it in iTunes, but then you need to have a mouse and keyboard, wireless(adding more to the price) plus its not as quick and easy.


Also the ATV has wireless N, make its perfect for streaming..if it has to. The Mac Mini either you need to constantly be adding files to it, or streaming them with wireless G, which is ok, but N is much better

tg3
Mar 25, 2007, 07:36 PM
1) Sync and download up to 5 iTunes Library(having on the harddrive is much better then streaming, no lag, network problems don't effect it.
You can only sync (download to the ATV HD) from only one computer. You can stream from up to 5. ;)

zap2
Mar 25, 2007, 07:59 PM
Ok, now i re-write this part.
I think HD content ask for CPU and Memory, as well as GPU, not a "more GPU function".
Here is Apple quicktime's HD playback system requirement



Which means the current ATV can't handle HD-content above 480p.

Well since my 1.66Ghz Mac Mini slows my 1.8Ghz iMac G5, I'm not sure how true that it. Also I'd take a 1.6Ghz iMac G5 w/ 2Gb of RAM over a 1.8Ghz iMac G5 with 256Mbs of RAM

localoid
Mar 25, 2007, 09:13 PM
....
Which means the current ATV can't handle HD-content above 480p.

You posting of the QT specs for playback of HD content via a stand-alone computer is totally meaningless in this case. :rolleyes:

ATV is acting as a client displaying streamed content from another computer on the network basically acting as a iTunes server. Much of the processing is being done by the server. Thus, the specs required on the client will be lower. Geeshh! :p

clevin
Mar 26, 2007, 08:43 AM
You posting of the QT specs for playback of HD content via a stand-alone computer is totally meaningless in this case. :rolleyes:

ATV is acting as a client displaying streamed content from another computer on the network basically acting as a iTunes server. Much of the processing is being done by the server. Thus, the specs required on the client will be lower. Geeshh! :p

well, obviously I don't have any experience with it, and Apple has no HD content to test it, SO.

lets wait and see, I ain't gonna make more statements that can't be proved or disproved. lol :p

Jimmdean
Mar 26, 2007, 09:32 AM
You posting of the QT specs for playback of HD content via a stand-alone computer is totally meaningless in this case. :rolleyes:

ATV is acting as a client displaying streamed content from another computer on the network basically acting as a iTunes server. Much of the processing is being done by the server. Thus, the specs required on the client will be lower. Geeshh! :p

Completely wrong. A total fantasy. As long as syncing is enabled, the Apple TV will function the same during playback whether your computer is turned on or not...

Jimmdean
Mar 26, 2007, 09:36 AM
well, obviously I don't have any experience with it, and Apple has no HD content to test it, SO.

lets wait and see, I ain't gonna make more statements that can't be proved or disproved. lol :p

While Apple has little commercial HD content, that doesn't mean none exists. People have been using/making their own HD content ever since Apple TV was released. Like I said, it accepts and displays 720P, and can also upscale to 1080i.

pengu
Mar 26, 2007, 09:54 AM
You posting of the QT specs for playback of HD content via a stand-alone computer is totally meaningless in this case. :rolleyes:

ATV is acting as a client displaying streamed content from another computer on the network basically acting as a iTunes server. Much of the processing is being done by the server. Thus, the specs required on the client will be lower. Geeshh! :p

PLEASE tell me you were being sarcastic?