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MacRumors
Mar 9, 2007, 07:37 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

More details (http://www.macworld.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=17434) from analyst Shaw Wu's report about flash based Apple laptops (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/08/flash-based-apple-laptops-again/) indicate that he believes that Apple may deploy the iPhone's stripped down version of OS X on the rumored sub-notebook.

"The 'mini' Mac OS X will be used. In terms of software, our sources indicate that Apple is leaning towards using the same "mini" version of Mac OS X used in the upcoming iPhone. We believe this will be particularly important as it has a much smaller footprint and runs with as little as 4 GB of space."

Apple's iPhone is expected to launch June and incorporates a touch-interface. Apple has also been advertising (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2556) for "Senior Panel Process Engineer" to design and develop advanced multi-touch panels. There has been no direct hints that Apple will use this in future laptops or displays, but Mac fans have certainly been speculating on this possibility.



Chaszmyr
Mar 9, 2007, 07:41 AM
If Apple is to use this stripped down version of OSX on an ultra mobile PC, I think it'd probably be a really small computer, probably even a little smaller than a UMPC. If the screen were large enough, I don't see why they wouldn't want to use an operating system that had a complete Finder and window management system.

skone
Mar 9, 2007, 07:41 AM
i wonder if it will support adobe cs3... i mean why would anyone want to lug around a sub notebook when you might as well lug around a 15" macbook pro ... unless this thing fits in your pocket. or no, is there a niche market for that

but i'm sure apple has thinked this through, maybe the new ipod is the new "sub notebook"

toneloco2881
Mar 9, 2007, 07:45 AM
If Apple is to use this stripped down version of OSX on an ultra mobile PC, I think it'd probably be a really small computer, probably smaller than a UMPC.

Agreed. The allure of the sub-notebook device is the small form-factor while still retaining the complete OS X experience. I can see certain physical features being omitted, i.e optical drive, but I would expect software features to remain intact. The iPhone is the smaller UMPC to a certain extent. Does anyone actually take this Shaw Wu seriously? Seems he just continuously regurgitates information, that he reads on the rumor forums.

Starship77
Mar 9, 2007, 07:47 AM
Well, it´s smaller than I tought...

Not the 12 inch macbook pro for sure! :(

But it may be coming sooner if it´s something like this, because it don´t got to have a large amount of NAND.

asphalt-proof
Mar 9, 2007, 07:48 AM
I'm trying to imagine where in the market this product would fit that wouldn't be merely a novelty item. Any ideas?

Chaszmyr
Mar 9, 2007, 07:54 AM
I'm trying to imagine where in the market this product would fit that wouldn't be merely a novelty item. Any ideas?

Not really. Sounds like a novelty device to me, and therefore I'm very skeptical. Just because it's a novelty device doesn't mean it couldn't sell. I mean, people like small things. However, these days Apple only seems to like to make products that they believe enhance your digital lifestyle.

ricksbrain
Mar 9, 2007, 07:55 AM
I'd love something small for teaching at university. Everything I do is Keynote-based. A small device would make my life much more convenient-- I wouldn't be developing scoliosis carrying so much stuff around.

Small White Car
Mar 9, 2007, 07:55 AM
I'm trying to imagine where in the market this product would fit that wouldn't be merely a novelty item. Any ideas?

Take the iPhone. Make the whole thing twice the size. Take out the phone (and the need for a contract with a cell phone company), and charge $100 more than the iPhone.

I'd strongly consider buying that instead of an iPhone and just keep using my old, simple phone for making calls while I use this thing for everything else.

0tim0
Mar 9, 2007, 07:55 AM
... they say "Nyet!"

This would make no sense at all. That's why this guy is an analyst and not an engineer.

--t

Chaszmyr
Mar 9, 2007, 07:58 AM
Take the iPhone. Make the whole thing twice the size. Take out the phone (and the need for a contract with a cell phone company), and charge $100 more than the iPhone.

I'd strongly consider buying that instead of an iPhone and just keep using my old, simple phone for making calls while I use this thing for everything else.

Any bigger than the iPhone would be far too big to carry around in your pocket, and therefore would not be nearly as handy, in my opinion.

boss1
Mar 9, 2007, 07:59 AM
Well I'm pretty sure it was Tim Cook or Jobs that just said recently to investors during a call that they were not jumping into any new product categories for while.

I really think Wu has it wrong on this one. A sub notebook is very possible as it falls in line with an existing product category (macbook), but a sub notebook running the iPhone OS? no.

The iPhone OS X is impressive in that its running on a phone but a notebook would need to be able to install 3rd party apps, recognize periphs usb, ethernet, and devices (CDdrive). Pretty much a full fledge version of OS X.

UNLESS apple is developing and marketing the iPhone OS as "OS X Mobile" and develops OS X Mobile to be elaborate and Featured enough to be able to handle some of the tasks and apps that the full version can. Well that would just be grand, as the same Mobile OS X is on the iPhone as well as the Sub Book. But what are the chances of that.

AndyR
Mar 9, 2007, 07:59 AM
Mac PDA minus the phone/ipod?

Small White Car
Mar 9, 2007, 08:03 AM
Any bigger than the iPhone would be far too big to carry around in your pocket, and therefore would not be nearly as handy, in my opinion.

Well, for me the choice would be this thing I described or a Macbook. It seems to me that something twice the size of an iPhone would still be a lot easier to carry than a Macbook.

Darkroom
Mar 9, 2007, 08:03 AM
i always though it would be cool if apple turned the iMac into a hybrid desktop/tablet that one could detach the touch-screen from the rest of the computer...

forgive me for dreaming...

la la la :)

Digital Skunk
Mar 9, 2007, 08:08 AM
This new device is the new multimedia remote for the AppleTV and your mac. You can sit in your couch and download movies to it from the iTunes Store and then stream them to the :apple: TV and control everything from this ultra small high powered remote. Now you don't have to use an actual notebook.

Besides... 4GB of space for an ultraportable device:confused: ... might as well be the next Apple PDA to replace the Newton. I don't see much happening with an UPMac that has 4GB of space (same as iPhone) that costs $1000 or more just because it now has graphics memory a gig of ram and an Intel processor.

As a matter of fact... just take out the NAND and put in a 1.8" HDD and call it the next iPod.

Digital Skunk
Mar 9, 2007, 08:11 AM
i always though it would be cool if apple turned the iMac into a hybrid desktop/tablet that one could detach the touch-screen from the rest of the computer...

forgive me for dreaming...

la la la :)

That may not be a bad idea given what OWC did to the MacBook to make the ModBook. It sounds nice in my head :D and Apple would be the one to do it. I would only be concerned with the screen sizes...

Could you imagine a 24" laptop :eek:

Evangelion
Mar 9, 2007, 08:24 AM
i wonder if it will support adobe cs3... i mean why would anyone want to lug around a sub notebook when you might as well lug around a 15" macbook pro

Why would it have to support CS3? Your argument seems to be that "if it doesn't run PhotoShop, why not get a real computer instead?". Well, not everyone uses Photshop. There would still be tons of uses for such device.

Eraserhead
Mar 9, 2007, 08:24 AM
Could you imagine a 24" laptop :eek:

Well Dell have a 20" laptop.

Sandfleaz
Mar 9, 2007, 08:24 AM
I don't know what the product might be, but the whole multi-touch thing is just to cool to be limited to the iPhone.

mikeinternet
Mar 9, 2007, 08:34 AM
I don't know what the product might be, but the whole multi-touch thing is just to cool to be limited to the iPhone.

i second that.

didn't jobs make it obvious at the keynote that multitouch was for more that just the iphone?

elmimmo
Mar 9, 2007, 08:44 AM
The 'mini' Mac OS X will be used. […] We believe this will be particularly important as it has a much smaller footprint and runs with as little as 4 GB of space.

An operating system that runs with as little as 4GB of space! There is really a landmark there!!!!

RollTide
Mar 9, 2007, 08:45 AM
As a student, I find this to be pretty cool. I would definetly get one if the price is right.

strydr
Mar 9, 2007, 08:46 AM
I'd love to see a device that has Flash (or NAND) based storage, no optical drive, and uses multi-touch. Tablet style would be nice too (even convertable style). Then it could have a regular keyboard, but with the option to use the virtual keyboard (with multi-touch). Now make it "12 or smaller, and put a huge battery in it. I'd buy one of these as soon as they were announced.

Currently, I leave my MBP in the truck, ready for work on a moments' notice. I can't drag the iMac to bed with me, so this would a perfect "ultra-portable" Give it enough power to play back movies smooth, handle cover flow, and remote desktop (as well as remote control abilities).

Alright Apple, my credit card needs to be abused again. give it to me.

tuartboy
Mar 9, 2007, 08:47 AM
I don't know what the product might be, but the whole multi-touch thing is just to cool to be limited to the iPhone.

Too cool, maybe. But what would you really use it for? I don't see how it is useful in any other market than the current ultra-mobile products. No one wants to move their hands from the keyboard/mouse to go touch something on the screen on a desktop. And I hardly ever leave the keyboard for the trackpad on my powerbook. A touch screen on either of those makes no sense to me as it would actually slow me down because of the large amounts of hand movement.

Also, I don't see why people are so amazed by the fact that OS X is running on a phone. At its core, OS X is really just Darwin BSD and the Aqua UI. Other companies have had *nix with custom UIs running on phones and mobile devices for nearly a decade and all apple had to do was come up another custom UI on top of darwin. The UI is amazing, but the concept of a desktop OS on a phone is nothing new. Just had to say it...

mrthieme
Mar 9, 2007, 08:47 AM
That may not be a bad idea given what OWC did to the MacBook to make the ModBook. It sounds nice in my head :D and Apple would be the one to do it. I would only be concerned with the screen sizes...

Could you imagine a 24" laptop :eek:
I love the idea, and came up with a crude little mockup of my own that I posted a little while back. Induction charging and wireless syncing with the base, which might also be where the optical drive is located.

I would rather see something along these lines over a pda, but I'd love to see either become a reality. Apple could really change the way we interact with computers if they pursue this technology.

Avatar74
Mar 9, 2007, 08:54 AM
i always though it would be cool if apple turned the iMac into a hybrid desktop/tablet that one could detach the touch-screen from the rest of the computer...

forgive me for dreaming...

la la la :)

Dreaming? No, not necessarily. (http://www.appleinsider.com/article.php?id=2496) :cool:

stockscalper
Mar 9, 2007, 08:59 AM
Well this could be good news for iphone users. If they use the iphone OS that means they will be devloping more software and software along the lines of business use for the sub notebook, which arguably could then be used on the iphone making it a truly sub tablet notebook :)

MisterMe
Mar 9, 2007, 09:01 AM
...

This would make no sense at all. That's why this guy is an analyst and not an engineer.

...Agreed. First off, MacOS X is smaller than 4 GB. The things that make installations larger are the bundled apps and support files. Today's market demands much larger storage than 4 GB, whether the computer is a subnotebook, notebook, desktop, or whatever. So the size of the OS is a minor consideration. Of much greater importance to a Flash-based system are the durability and expense of the Flash memory. A subnotebook is still a full-fledged computer and has to do what most people use laptops for. Browsing the Web, email, PowerPoint or Keynote presentations, and everything associated with them must be doable on the machine.

sartinsauce
Mar 9, 2007, 09:01 AM
Shaw is kind of full of it. This speculation is very specific about the device, but it seems to be missing the point. I think that without knowing it Shaw is actually describing the next iteration of the iPod. We've been hearing (okay, reading) these rumors of the next generation iPod being delayed, and at the same time hearing rumors of a sub-notebook.

I'm thinking that the next iPod will go even further with it's ability to manage and interface with all kind of digital media. They've been trying that for years, ever since that iPod Photo (3rd gen?). Now they have an interface method (touchscreen) and a stripped down OS, so put them together with a HDD or some phat NAND, add a WIFI card/interface and voila ~ the super-duper iPod you guys have been waiting for.

Makes perfect sense to me. I should freakin have Shaw Wu's job...

marktesssing
Mar 9, 2007, 09:06 AM
i always though it would be cool if apple turned the iMac into a hybrid desktop/tablet that one could detach the touch-screen from the rest of the computer...

forgive me for dreaming...

la la la :)

that's one of 2 or 3 new form I think macs will develop.
first, the Mac Slate. Looking at apple's patent applications for multi-touch screens and new optical drives on back of computer. I have a Dell I9200 17" laptop and could imagine carrying just the screen around the house for streaming media from a home server, web surfing and email nothing too powerful. with optical drive on the back/bottom and multi-touch.
second, multi-function remote/gamepad.
finally, a Watcom table-like device for vertical markets. Apple build the hardware and integration and let third-parties develop apps. A multi-touch pad/keyboard for Final Cut/Logic or one where the app determine controls on touch-pad/keyborad. and the touch-pad/keyboard is optional, use it if it makes oyur job easier.

mccldwll
Mar 9, 2007, 09:06 AM
I'm trying to imagine where in the market this product would fit that wouldn't be merely a novelty item. Any ideas?

Doctors. Lawyers. University students. Business people. Anyone who presently has a laptop and wants a super-portable.

Avatar74
Mar 9, 2007, 09:11 AM
Shaw is kind of full of it. This speculation is very specific about the device, but it seems to be missing the point. I think that without knowing it Shaw is actually describing the next iteration of the iPod. We've been hearing (okay, reading) these rumors of the next generation iPod being delayed, and at the same time hearing rumors of a sub-notebook.

I'm thinking that the next iPod will go even further with it's ability to manage and interface with all kind of digital media. They've been trying that for years, ever since that iPod Photo (3rd gen?). Now they have an interface method (touchscreen) and a stripped down OS, so put them together with a HDD or some phat NAND, add a WIFI card/interface and voila ~ the super-duper iPod you guys have been waiting for.

Makes perfect sense to me. I should freakin have Shaw Wu's job...

Depends on what the iPhone OS X really is. The thing is, the basic idea is correct.

From everything I've read thus far, Apple appears to be developing a different kind of user interface for its Mobile Mac products which do fall into their broader category of computing/communications devices. So to answer one question, these are not a new class of devices... they are a new class of computers with wi-fi and potentially other communication capabilities built-in.

Piles was initiated back in the 90's with the express purpose of being integrated into devices like Newton/e-Mate. It is a feature set that is designed specifically for a mobile OS architecture.

Knowing that, and seeing the iPhone interface thus far, I think what Shaw may be trying to say is that some derivation of the same type of UI/OS is being extrapolated for the Mobile Mac devices. Since Piles has been resurrected and patented and job postings are going up for the new Mobile Mac division, this is almost absolute confirmation of Apple's intention at producing a line of sub-notebook devices of which iPhone is the first. I ran that by a co-worker who was a product engineer at Apple in the 90's and he agreed emphatically.

He also noted that Apple's use of ARM processors in iPhone is a definite confirmation of their strategic direction. The most significant device to use the ARM processor in Apple's past was the Newton. ARM specializes in processor designs specifically tailored to mobile communications platforms.

Avatar74
Mar 9, 2007, 09:16 AM
Doctors. Lawyers. University students. Business people. Anyone who presently has a laptop and wants a super-portable.

Funny you should mention.... one of the key markets that Apple is now targeting appears to be the medical industry. Multitouch portables have huge applications in diagnostics and surgery, and one of the patents for apple's Integrated Sensing Display specifically mentions endoscopy as a particular application for a type of ISD that emits light through the same aperture that it captures imaging data.

pilotError
Mar 9, 2007, 09:17 AM
Sounds like they may want to enter the handheld wireless market.

There's a niche market that is dominated by windows. They use these handhelds with touch screen on Exchange Floors, Factory Floors, pretty much anywhere that a workforce with limited mobility needs connectivity in a small form factor that you can literally carry around all day. The ones we use have velcro strapping for attaching to your arm, and also a neck strap.

Maybe something like an 8 or 10 inch tablet with touch capability.

I'd be surprised to see it, but there is a market for them, as its mostly dominated by smaller niche players that use either Windows CE or a full version of windows.

Not something the general consumer would want though.

Avatar74
Mar 9, 2007, 09:21 AM
Not something the general consumer would want though.

This is exactly what some industry executives said about the personal computer back in the 1970's. If I recall, they worked for IBM and Hewlett-Packard.

The question is not whether or not they'd want it... but how would it have to be designed and what would it have to feature in order to make it desirable to the general consumer.

The reason Apple is successful at introducing products like iPod is because they do a much better job of asking and researching the answers to such questions than most companies.

Yvan256
Mar 9, 2007, 09:26 AM
If they can squeeze everything into the iPhone, then the next iPod needs to be the iPhone minus the phone part. Which is, "iPod + PDA".

A sub-notebook, on the other hand, needs to run the same things as your bigger laptop/desktop computer. Less storage space, no optical drive, less ports, I can see. Not the full-version of OS X? Then you need "special versions" of programs, just like a PDA. That's not a sub-notebook.

On my Mac mini, the Applications, etc, Library, System and var folders take around 20 GB. That's with iWork and a few other apps installed. I'm pretty sure that things like Apache, PHP and others things could be omitted from the default install, making the full version of OS X and associated desktop programs fit somewhere between 15-20GB.

Even at 20GB, it would leave around 12GB for user files if the sub-notebook had 32GB of Flash storage. That would be enough for the entry model, and maybe a higher capacity model with 64GB of storage.

slffl
Mar 9, 2007, 09:32 AM
Is there really that many people who need something between an iPhone and Macbook? How about apple just makes a whole range of products, each one being 1/2 inch larger than the previous. Maybe that way everyone will be satisfied.

Avatar74
Mar 9, 2007, 09:32 AM
If they can squeeze everything into the iPhone, then the next iPod needs to be the iPhone minus the phone part. Which is, "iPod + PDA".

A sub-notebook, on the other hand, needs to run the same things as your bigger laptop/desktop computer. Less storage space, no optical drive, less ports, I can see. Not the full-version of OS X? Then you need "special versions" of programs, just like a PDA. That's not a sub-notebook.

On my Mac mini, the Applications, etc, Library, System and var folders take around 20 GB. That's with iWork and a few other apps installed. I'm pretty sure that things like Apache, PHP and others things could be omitted from the default install, making the real OS X fit somewhere between 15-20GB.

Even at 20GB, it would leave around 12GB for user files if the sub-notebook had 32GB of Flash storage. That would be enough for the entry model, and maybe a higher capacity model with 64GB of storage.

Why do people look at future technologies and dismiss them based on present capabilities?

Is it not a foregone conclusion that storage media are still advancing in efficiency? If someone told you five years ago that there'd be an 80GB capacity multimedia player the size of a credit card and thinner than a pack of cigarettes would you have scoffed because drives then didn't have that kind of efficiency?

We're talking about Apple... the company that almost thirty years ago figured out a way to get 64K addressing in an Apple II board that could only support 32K addressing at the time. They don't approach design considerations from "What can we do with the available technology now"... Their approach is more akin to ILM's approach to visual effects... "How might we do this and what's it going to take?"

marktesssing
Mar 9, 2007, 09:32 AM
Sounds like they may want to enter the handheld wireless market.

There's a niche market that is dominated by windows. They use these handhelds with touch screen on Exchange Floors, Factory Floors, pretty much anywhere that a workforce with limited mobility needs connectivity in a small form factor that you can literally carry around all day. The ones we use have velcro strapping for attaching to your arm, and also a neck strap.

Maybe something like an 8 or 10 inch tablet with touch capability.

I'd be surprised to see it, but there is a market for them, as its mostly dominated by smaller niche players that use either Windows CE or a full version of windows.

Not something the general consumer would want though.

I would like a 8" - 10" widescreen media player, with or without DVD player for long drives with the kids. use as a :apple: TV remote/gamepad at home.

also, some people seems to think using multi-touch would mean using your fingers to drag the cursor across the screen. There's no cursor (that I remember) on the iphone. you touch where the cursor would have been. basically for multi-touch to come to the laptop/desktop/hybrid apple would develop a touch interface like on iphone not the keyboard/mouse interface we have now

sunfast
Mar 9, 2007, 09:40 AM
Maybe something like an 8 or 10 inch tablet

Didn't Jobsie mention that at MWSF '06 ;)

Mgkwho
Mar 9, 2007, 09:41 AM
I hope Apple doesn't turn into Google and start releasing new products and forget about their old, "in dire need of updates" products.

(Google seems to have a lot of beta and new beta services, with very few finished products, in my opinion).

-=|Mgkwho

Avatar74
Mar 9, 2007, 09:44 AM
I would like a 8" - 10" widescreen media player, with or without DVD player for long drives with the kids. use as a :apple: TV remote/gamepad at home.

also, some people seems to think using multi-touch would mean using your fingers to drag the cursor across the screen. There's no cursor (that I remember) on the iphone. you touch where the cursor would have been. basically for multi-touch to come to the laptop/desktop/hybrid apple would develop a touch interface like on iphone not the keyboard/mouse interface we have now

But this is partially correct. Multitouch screens are pressure-sensitive unlike most single-point touchscreens.

You can navigate a multitouch interface without executing commands. That is, you can move the cursor around the screen... but the cursor is wherever your finger is.

Though the iPhone doesn't immediately reveal this functionality it's there. If you're typing using the virtual keyboard, for example, you can glide your fingers to the key you're trying to find without having the keys along the way register input. It's not until the key enlarges and you apply pressure that the multitouch registers an executed input.

In this way, yes, multitouch can be used for multi-stage click-and-drag execution, marquee selection, etc. The same sort of things you'd do with a mouse only, as I said before, the pointer is your finger. Whether or not a pointer arrow appears on such an interface is just a design issue... it could be designed either way... to display a pointer arrow wherever your finger is, or to not display it with the assumption that you can visibly see where your own finger is pointing.

The advantage of having an onscreen pointer is chiefly when the input device is separate from the screen.

Apple developed what I like to call the "no button" mouse... I like to think of multitouch as the "no mouse mouse"... Multipoint gestures can execute in single "chords" a series of commands that would take several steps with a keyboard, mouse or stylus.

Diode
Mar 9, 2007, 09:44 AM
I could use a ultra-compact portable so that when the guy in front of me reclines his seat it doesn't shove my laptop into my stomach.

If this is true I could see the audience being people who give presentations / travel a lot and just need something with internet access, word and presentation capabilities. Thats all I use my laptop for; no need for it to be so big.

PDubNYC
Mar 9, 2007, 09:46 AM
i wonder if it will support adobe cs3... i mean why would anyone want to lug around a sub notebook when you might as well lug around a 15" macbook pro ... unless this thing fits in your pocket. or no, is there a niche market for that

but i'm sure apple has thinked this through, maybe the new ipod is the new "sub notebook"

That is one of the dumbest comments I have seen in a while. What the hell does CS3 have to do with anything? who would possibly want to do design work on a sub-notebook? How is it "lugging" around when it is a sub-notebook, and how can you compare it to a 15" MBP?

Personally, I don't see the need for such a device. As far as I know, the windows sub-notebooks (not PDAs) are not exactly selling like hotcakes. It'd be cool to see, but, at least for me, it wouldn't really fit into my life in either work or play.

Yvan256
Mar 9, 2007, 09:53 AM
Why do people look at future technologies and dismiss them based on present capabilities?

Hey, I was looking at this with the idea of such a product being released in 2007-Q4, and also what it would imply with regard to current technologies and prices.

I was saying how it would be possible, not impossible! :confused:

andiwm2003
Mar 9, 2007, 09:59 AM
sounds to me like the nokia N800 done right.



for a real subnotebook with keyboard i don't see the need to use a touch screen and a stripped down OSX. even if it's a subnotebook i would want full functionality.

i could see a 4-5 inch screen, 1024x640. a better pda.

Avatar74
Mar 9, 2007, 10:01 AM
As far as I know, the windows sub-notebooks (not PDAs) are not exactly selling like hotcakes.

Neither is Zune... but that doesn't seem to deter iPods from flying out the door.

Assessing the market based on what Microsoft does is not necessarily the way to look at Apple.

First, because Apple is a hardware company and second because they have a much better grasp and much more experience at industrial design of hardware products than Microsoft.

Apple could easily succeed because they understand what it means to design something that people want and find cool. Microsoft's core strength is in fooling people into believing their mediocre products are needed... but they have no clue how to make their products highly desirable (read: sexy) on a level playing field.

roland.g
Mar 9, 2007, 10:01 AM
As little as 4GB of space. That's not very stripped down. Shaw Wu, doesn't know what he's talking about. I did a clean install of OS X on my Mini to free up space and even with all of iLife including Garageband, etc, just removing the additional language support, fonts, and excess printer drivers, I got mine down near that. Saved an extra 5-6GB.

daze
Mar 9, 2007, 10:02 AM
The new Newton?

Avatar74
Mar 9, 2007, 10:04 AM
Hey, I was looking at this with the idea of such a product being released in 2007-Q4, and also what it would imply with regard to current technologies and prices.

I was saying how it would be possible, not impossible! :confused:

Maybe I misunderstood what you were trying to say.

lazyrighteye
Mar 9, 2007, 10:21 AM
Too cool, maybe. But what would you really use it for? I don't see how it is useful in any other market than the current ultra-mobile products. No one wants to move their hands from the keyboard/mouse to go touch something on the screen on a desktop. And I hardly ever leave the keyboard for the trackpad on my powerbook. A touch screen on either of those makes no sense to me as it would actually slow me down because of the large amounts of hand movement.

Many continue to think of this multi-touch surface as a small, trackpad sized form factor (which is roughly the same size as the iPhone's surface - I said roughly).

I could see the next gen MacBook dropping the keyboard all together in favor of a large multi-touch surface. This could allow for a thinner, lighter 'Book.

Could be interesting...

calculus
Mar 9, 2007, 10:21 AM
I could see the audience being people who give presentations / travel a lot and just need something with internet access, word and presentation capabilities. Thats all I use my laptop for; no need for it to be so big.

There are a lot of people like this. I'd love something like this that I could carry around with me at work from meeting to meeting.

hottyson
Mar 9, 2007, 10:22 AM
I need mobile web Browsing.
I need mobile iTunes.
I need mobile Skype.

Currently, only UMPC with windows can do all this.
If apple device can do all three, I must have it.

Or sacrifice iTunes and go with a cheap $350 Nokia N800 Internet Tablet.)

lelereb
Mar 9, 2007, 10:23 AM
an iphone with a physical nano-keyboard:D

Peace
Mar 9, 2007, 10:28 AM
First off this shouldn't be called "iPhone OS X " OR "sub-notebook"..

PDA is closer except using multi-touch.And it would have a built-in camera because it would be needed to send/receive those Skype type calls.

12" display.Wall mountable, table stand or in hand.

The libraries of photos,music and movies could be stored on "community servers" that it would connect to wirelessly so 4 gig flash would be good.

Can you imagine a classroom filled with these? Very useful.

Or a meeting room filled with them in the corporate arena.Very useful.


Wu is close on this one except he doesn't really have a grasp of what it could really do for the technology community.

nagromme
Mar 9, 2007, 10:33 AM
Sounds like a confused rumor that has SOME grain of truth behind it, so small as to be unrecognizable :)

For instance: this could be combination of subnotebook rumors with rumors of some other iPhone-related device like a mini-tablet/PDA. We've seen rumors cross and combine like that before--it happened with the nano for instance.

I assume Mac software would not run on the iPhone's processor without a recompile, though, and Intel has some nice low-power chips anyway, so I expect any subnotebook to have much more in common with a Mac than an iPhone.

ChrisA
Mar 9, 2007, 10:43 AM
In terms of software, our sources indicate that Apple is leaning towards using the same "mini" version of Mac OS X used in the upcoming iPhone.

Could it be that he is only slightly mis-informed. Many people do not know the difference between the user interface and the operating system. After all how many Mac users know where a system library ends and the kernel begins? Uusers don't see either of these.

Given that, could it be that a new extra-small notebook uses a new window manager that uses "muti-touch" while using the full-up Leopard OS? This seems more resonable than putting a cell phone OS in a notebook. And mistaking a user interface shell with an OS seems like a reasonable grounds for rumor.

Could a new optional multi-touch user interface be one of Leopard's "secret" features?

ulyssespdx
Mar 9, 2007, 10:55 AM
Jesus.

Shaw Wu is to "analysis" what Pee Wee Herman is to art films.

C'mon, guys. Even Apple employees make fun of Wu and his "sources". HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY. his "predictions" are usually wrong, and are generally things you and i already can figure out just by reading the news.

it's getting tiresome to read Apple "news" that's basically regurgitated Shaw Wu crap.

let's do some journalism, shall we?

quandmeme
Mar 9, 2007, 10:56 AM
I'm one of those that wants one now (for legal work). My concern is not that it wouldn't be worthwhile, but that it will be so useful that the battery life would be too much of a limiting factor. I'll need a few swappable batteries. Would it be dreaming to have the dock for it drive a large monitor for comparing multiple documents. Too much to ask of portable video hardware? Okay okay, but I still want one (more than a 12" mac book, for example.)

peharri
Mar 9, 2007, 11:03 AM
Hey, I was looking at this with the idea of such a product being released in 2007-Q4, and also what it would imply with regard to current technologies and prices.

I was saying how it would be possible, not impossible! :confused:

Don't worry, it was perfectly obvious to anyone reading it that you were implying it was possible.

At the risk of stating the obvious, beware of trolls whose MO is to pretend to be far sighted by pretending anything said by anyone else is in some way denying the inevitable, luddism, or whatever, regardless of what is actually being said by those people. It's an interesting technique, and at least one Macrumors "regular" has recently been throwing a lot of threads into bizarre arguments by doing exactly this.

Macrumors has an "ignore list" feature. It is often a good idea to use it.

Poff
Mar 9, 2007, 11:09 AM
...seems I might have to think twice about buying this...

not being able to run programs like parallels or rapidweaver would be a deal-breaker for me..

whatever
Mar 9, 2007, 11:11 AM
I'm trying to imagine where in the market this product would fit that wouldn't be merely a novelty item. Any ideas?

Business travelers who really don't need to lug around a full-size notebook, but also need something bigger than a iPhone.

I've seen more travelers lug (I say lug, because as a frequent traveler and someone who tore up their rotators cup by carrying a heavy computer back and garment bag on his shoulder, I look at anyway possible to reduce the amount of stuff I have to carry with me onto a plane) their laptops on a trip only because they need e-mail and to run a Power Point presentation. Give me something just large enough to see a spreadsheet and watch a movie.

There is a huge market for this.

whatever
Mar 9, 2007, 11:18 AM
Why would it have to support CS3? Your argument seems to be that "if it doesn't run PhotoShop, why not get a real computer instead?". Well, not everyone uses Photshop. There would still be tons of uses for such device.

I also know quite a few executives who are opting to leave their laptops behind at the office and live off of their Blackberries on the road. Their main problem with this is:
1. they hate their blackberries and are waiting for their iPhones
2. they need to run presentations once in a while
3. sometimes they need to view an attachment

Surreal
Mar 9, 2007, 11:26 AM
i would justify the purchase of an apple PDA sans phone if it was a little cheaper (300-500) but pretty much the same form factor.

i would love a nice mobile interface with my calendarand contacts.

grumpy
Mar 9, 2007, 11:43 AM
So, we *know* 2 things:
- Apple is releasing the iPhone with a stripped OS X
- Apple wants to hire a panel engineer.

There's lots of things that can be done with that. Not necessarily consumer products, and maybe not even things Apple cares about. Not everything has to be a sub-notebook.

- The next Newton/iPod
- photo/video/audio editing (30" multi-touch screen could make an interesting sound board)
- industrial apps/controls (such as interfaces on assembly lines)
- home/service apps/controls (home automation, kiosk apps)
- scientific visualization (I'm thinking 3D/4D data models)
- NASA (face it, the LCARS Star Trek interfaces were just that)

I'm sure we could come up with more ideas with some free thinking.

jjthomps
Mar 9, 2007, 11:53 AM
I would like something that had:

Email
Web
QuickTime Engine
Office Suite (appleworks and keynote is fine)
Small DVI port
Headphone Jack
USB 2.0 Port
Wi-Fi
Cell Phone

With these options you can do whatever multimedia you may want (quicktime), you could present through the suite and the DVI port, Use periph's with USB2, check email, and web and view attachments.

rtdunham
Mar 9, 2007, 11:59 AM
"...leaning towards using the same "mini" version of Mac OS X used in the upcoming iPhone...as it has a much smaller footprint and runs with as little as 4 GB of space"

what am i missing here? the system folder on my MB is 1.82 GB.

TheAnswer
Mar 9, 2007, 11:59 AM
I think the student market is looking for something in the 8-10" range...a lot of them want to take notes in class but they don't want to lug around even a 12" or 13" notebook in addition to their books. They are mainly looking to type notes in class, write papers, search the web, visit social websites, play media, and use chat/SMS.

uv23
Mar 9, 2007, 12:20 PM
I will buy a aubnotebook the day it comes out, but only if it's a fully featured machine. If I wanted a dumbed down OS, I'd get the iPhone. I'm gonna say this rumor is bunk.

Carefulle
Mar 9, 2007, 12:21 PM
In reading all the posts most of the people want wifi, internet, music, sms ect... and well my apple newton can do wifi,sms, internet (although it is nothing close to what we would expect today) my point here is that this would be a revision of one. considering the joint recent buisness agreement with cingular it is not out of the realm of possibilities that a "new" newton emerges. it would have the wifi bluetooth(think built in phone, all you need is the bluetooth headset) color screen and with the LED backlighting think of the battery life you save. Also, the newton was flash based as well which when paired with some energizer lith batteries lasted with the backlight on everytime I used it about a month. This usage indicated that given the recent price drop of memory it would also increase batterylife if it was flash based
I currently use mine for the same reasons some of the people would want, i.e note taking in class, calculating in math. and with the new updated set of features we can expect this would be an easy market for apple to have. I can hear the homes of millions of students justifying their needs. "Mom you don't understand this ipad/inewton/whatever will help me with my grades, I can take notes way faster(Handwriting recognition is the best by far I have had a ton of different palms and they were crap) you can call me whenever, i have my music so now you dont have to borrow my ipod all the time, you dont have to buy that 150$ ti-89 graphing calculator, please mom"... you get the gist.
To close most of the programs on the newton are all saved on a 32mb flash card. talk about well written code.
Apple WILL come out with a redone newton 2100 it's market potential is big not too.

grendel9
Mar 9, 2007, 12:27 PM
Many continue to think of this multi-touch surface as a small, trackpad sized form factor (which is roughly the same size as the iPhone's surface - I said roughly).

I could see the next gen MacBook dropping the keyboard all together in favor of a large multi-touch surface. This could allow for a thinner, lighter 'Book.

Could be interesting...

I would hope they would not immediately drop the keyboard, I would love a 17" or 15" MBP with a keyboard and multitouch, especially if they cahnged aperture to use multitouch kinda like the demo from perceptive pixles. That would be a wonderfull addition to aperture, a great way to organize and work on your photos.I would be lin line to get one for sure.

shelterpaw
Mar 9, 2007, 12:49 PM
I'm trying to imagine where in the market this product would fit that wouldn't be merely a novelty item. Any ideas?

Well it could be that tMac everyone has been waiting for. Something you can used to control your entire home entertainment system and partially use as a computer. Maybe a wide screen iPod remote control entertainment device. Who knows. Fun to speculate about nonetheless. :p

whooleytoo
Mar 9, 2007, 12:52 PM
Text entry on devices this size are the killer. Touch-screen displays are pretty horrible for extended periods of text entry, and the miniture keyboards on most sub-notebook devices aren't much better to be honest.

In areas/businesses with Wifi coverage, this could be very useful.

50548
Mar 9, 2007, 12:55 PM
Jesus.

Shaw Wu is to "analysis" what Pee Wee Herman is to art films.

C'mon, guys. Even Apple employees make fun of Wu and his "sources". HE DOESN'T HAVE ANY. his "predictions" are usually wrong, and are generally things you and i already can figure out just by reading the news.

it's getting tiresome to read Apple "news" that's basically regurgitated Shaw Wu crap.

let's do some journalism, shall we?

Exactly...Wu has no "Clu" at all, he's just full of speculation and empty in facts.

Besides, anyone who believes Apple is gonna release a OS X mobile on a subnotebook is simply daydreaming...no chance at all. The PDA is already there and it's called iPhone...forget about anything else similar for the moment, including vPods and reborn Newtons...:rolleyes:

dburney
Mar 9, 2007, 01:09 PM
While many are arguing whether this will happen, or what it will or won't be, or why it should or shouldn't happen, I just had a great revelation.

Every evening when I get home from work I have to kick my teenage daughter off of the iMac so I can do more work. The sum total of what she does on our iMac amounts to iTunes and Safari, with the occasional presentation or report. She had an iBook G3 that the logic board died on and we haven't managed to replace it yet - I think this subnotebook idea would be absolutely perfect - and even better, running the stripped down OS X takes down the overhead requirements of the machine further reducing the cost. It would have e-mail, a browser and a few other apps - but really she doesn't need much more. I have a feeling there are tons of young adults/teenagers that just need a browser for myspace and a music player for their MP3s - when they have real work to do they'll hop on the iMac.

This won't be something to run Adobe apps on, it won't run Office - but it will do what it is designed to do elegantly and at a decent price. It will compliment the mac you already have and provide internet and e-mail access from your living room or bedroom or whatever…similarly to a notebook but without the wasted resources that your not likely to use while laying on the couch surfing the net.

Maccus Aurelius
Mar 9, 2007, 01:18 PM
If you ask me, Apple should just make a dual multitouch screen book with a voice activated finder and a radio chip for expanded connectivity, and call it the Hitchhiker's Guide to the iGalaxy.

TheAnswer
Mar 9, 2007, 01:23 PM
it's getting tiresome to read Apple "news" that's basically regurgitated Shaw Wu crap.

let's do some journalism, shall we?

Just to clarify...this is a rumors site. The closest this site should be expected to post actual news is when Apple releases something that either confirms or proves wrong past rumors.

pilotError
Mar 9, 2007, 01:28 PM
But this is partially correct. Multitouch screens are pressure-sensitive unlike most single-point touchscreens.

Is this true for Multi-touch? Most of the experience I've had with Touch screens is the type that pick up the conductivity of the skin (I don't know the technical name for it).

Text entry on devices this size are the killer. Touch-screen displays are pretty horrible for extended periods of text entry, and the miniture keyboards on most sub-notebook devices aren't much better to be honest.

I have to agree here. One of my clients has a pretty extensive set of touch screens out there. We also give them a special pen to do the input, because the users hands hurt when hitting the screen. The pen is more accurate too.

Users like tactile feedback, and while touch may be cool, it doesn't quite work out the way you'd like it too. Not saying Apple hasn't come up with some better way to do it, but seeing how my users bang that pen on the screen I'd be surprised if they released a touch only device for more than just basic iPhone functionality.

EagerDragon
Mar 9, 2007, 01:50 PM
I have no clue what sort of device this will be, but a lot of the OSX utilities can probably go since the interface is different, obviously most of the support for components that are not used can also go.

It makes sense to trim down the OS for items, drivers and programs that are not needed.

Something functionaly bigger than an iPhone and iPOD but functionaly smaller than a MacBook and it is not a full functional tablet (photoshop, full cut, etc). I have no clue what it could be or why I would want it.

The iPhone has about all the PDA functionality I need, and above that I could also use a MACBook Pro a:eek: like tablet, but between those two I can not imagine a device I would be interested in.

iMikeT
Mar 9, 2007, 01:50 PM
I can't believe that an analyst's speculation about a rumored product makes page 1 news today.:rolleyes:

steve_hill4
Mar 9, 2007, 01:52 PM
I'd almost certainly go for a sub-notebook produced by Apple in the future, but would want the full OS X installed. I would ditch language support, printer drivers I didn't need, at least half of the iLife apps and only install those apps I really needed on the go.

I would hopefully have file sharing through other Macs and networks at home and at work and so storage space would be less of an issue for most day to day stuff. I even guess I could bite the bullet for .Mac and use iDisk for synching eventually, so as long as I had an internet connection available, many important files could be synched that way.

But again, I couldn't envisage wanting a stripped down version of OS X. For most who would want/buy a sub-notebook, it would be counter-productive.

zblaxberg
Mar 9, 2007, 01:58 PM
I'd still rather have a MBP...I need a workhorse...not something the ups guy is gonna come around with in his back pocket

EagerDragon
Mar 9, 2007, 01:58 PM
Take the iPhone. Make the whole thing twice the size. Take out the phone (and the need for a contract with a cell phone company), and charge $100 more than the iPhone.

I'd strongly consider buying that instead of an iPhone and just keep using my old, simple phone for making calls while I use this thing for everything else.

umm that is in the price range of a Mac Mini - $699, sounds like a lot for a lot less functionality. $699 will get you an el-cheapo Dell Laptop also.

baddaddy46901
Mar 9, 2007, 02:00 PM
Concievably, why can't any apple computer be an iphone? They all have cameras, speakers, and mic's. The rest is just hardware. Having the iphone on a laptop would mean you would never have to find a hot spot again. Having it in the iMac would mean that it would extend it's role as a media and communications hub. It adds another layer of digital lifestyle to the picture.

EagerDragon
Mar 9, 2007, 02:02 PM
An operating system that runs with as little as 4GB of space! There is really a landmark there!!!!

Linux have been running on a heck of a lot less space for 10 years.

Clive At Five
Mar 9, 2007, 02:21 PM
I can't believe that an analyst's speculation about a rumored product makes page 1 news today.:rolleyes:

Moreover, I can't believe we're still listening to Shaw Wu! Everything he says is a regurgitation of what is shown on rumor sites, mixed with phony claims of what his "sources" say. Why is it, then, that his sources always say exactly what stockholders and readers of MacRumors want to hear most? Because it's phony.

Look. I don't doubt that Apple has tested some of these ideas, and possibly/probably have working prototypes of them, but that's far from saying they're planning on releasing them. Remember what Steve said about the PDA the developed but never released? It's like that.

Let me tell you a few no-brainers:

SOMEDAY, Apple will rely more heavily on Flash storage.
SOMEDAY, Apple will move the multi-touch interface to the iPod.
SOMEDAY, Apple will expand the use of its multi-touch interface to its portables.

Shaw Wu is coming in and saying it like, A) it's new/groundbreaking/unexpected news, and B) he has sources in Apple. The chances of this are extremely slim. I find that he has little to no credibilty, and his speculation should be regarded no more prominently than speculation by any member of this forum.

End of story.

</thread>

^^I wish I had that power.

-Clive

belovedmonster
Mar 9, 2007, 02:45 PM
People seem to be assuming that the OS would be exactly the same as the one found in the iPhone. I think its reasonable to assume that whatever device uses this stripped down OSX will do so in a way uniquely designed with the hardware in mind, it wont just be a one size fits all "OSX Mini" than can be installed a bunch of different devices. So the fact that the iPhone doesnt have Finder for example doesnt say that a computer using the same mini OS technology wouldnt have one either.

pubwvj
Mar 9, 2007, 02:55 PM
Two screens fold together like a book.
Slips in the pocket. Size of an iPod.
Flash memory for long battery life. 4GB, 8GB, 32GB.
Induction recharging of battery.
Wi-Fi for the internet & VOIP.
Cellular for cellphone if desired.
Bluetooth for earphones, keyboard, mouse.
Screen is touch sensitive of course and a tablet.
Sealed case, real world rugged, no ports, no openings.
Full MacOSX from a user's perspective but you don't need optical drive and a lot of other things.
Available in any color as long as it is black.
The iPal - it does it all.

dontmatter
Mar 9, 2007, 03:01 PM
If by sub-notebook we mean something with a keyboard and trackpad, then awesome, I would love to see one, maybe even buy one. But wouldn't you want that to run a full OS X?

If by subnotebook we mean something like the terrible UMPC platform, even "appplified", then the tradeoff in functionality for size is simply not worth it. Unless it's pocket sized, it may as well be big enough for a keyboard. Admittedly, I see that there's a niche for which such a product would be immensely useful, such as geologists who need more accurate and powerful mapping tools than traditional pen and paper, but for whom keyboard input doesn't work that well anyway, and durability and size requirments make laptops impractical. But it's not a big enough market for apple. Tablet computers just lose too much.

scstsut
Mar 9, 2007, 03:06 PM
I'll go against the flow on this thread: (I know I'm not the only one)
I expect a 6-10 inch screen obviously with Multi-Touch (which we'll see in everything Apple) but comparison of AppleTV and Microsoft's Media Center PCs has me thinking.

Microsoft hallucinates and sees a future where EVERYTHING runs Windows; everything is a PC. From servers to Xbox to smartphones to watches. Even a wireless display has to run Windows! As a result the Media Center PC is a gigantic, over priced beast.

Apple delivers. They haven't taken the Mac and shrunk it into an AppleTV; they've taken an iPod and transformed it into an AppleTV! And the result, third or less the price of an Media Center PC, a fraction of the size and Apple simple/Just-Works.

They'll do the same with the iPhone. They'll build on the iPhone's simplicity and economy (at least compared to a MacBook) and build a tablet that will sell at a fraction of Microsofts Tablet PC/UMPC (is that Universally Maligned Piece of Crap?). (And the media won't get it and will be saying, "You won't be able to run Photoshop CS3 on it. Tsk, tsk, Apple. It just doesn't offer what Tablet PC offered years ago.").......... (http://blog.sqribbled.com/2007/03/shifted-thoughts-on-ibook.html)

Clive At Five
Mar 9, 2007, 03:06 PM
We believe this will be particularly important as it has a much smaller footprint and runs with as little as 4 GB of space."

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we hear reports that the version of OS X in the iPhone were less than 500MB?

I hope you don't mind me saying that SHAW WU IS AN IDIOT!

Let's consider something else, thuogh. The way the iPhone is set up now, it can run a finite number of programs... camera, e-mail, voice mail, SMS text, 'phone,' etc.

A tablet or sub-notebook based on this same OS would, then only be able to rune a finite number of programs... granted the list might include a word processor, spreadsheet, other productivity things, etc. It would not have the near-limitless possibilities of a regular laptop. I don't think people are willing to sacrifice this. People who want an so-called "ultra-porable" want just that: A computer aimed at being lightweight and easy to tote. They don't want to sacrifice what applications they can use.

They are people around saying that sub-notebooks shouldn't be made to run Final Cut, Apeture, Mathematica and Photoshop simultaneously. I agree with that statement... but it should be able to run at least one of those at a time. People who have these computers usually have a specific use in mind, and if those uses don't fall into what Apple might decided to allow the device to do, the customer is out of luck. This very issue is even a concern for devices as small as the iPhone, but would be a DISASTER on a laptop. Apple will almost certainly NOT use the iPhone OS on a laptop. They may, however, use a derivative of it, which is user-customizable, but they can not afford to take the risk of limiting its users to the degree that they do with the iPhone.

-Clive

OriginalMacRat
Mar 9, 2007, 03:10 PM
Could you imagine a 24" laptop :eek:

Actually, I can.

I have the 17" PowerBook and it is starting to feel kinda small.

Clive At Five
Mar 9, 2007, 03:25 PM
Flash memory for long battery life. 4GB, 8GB, 32GB.


What's wrong with 16GB?

Two screens fold together like a book.

LCDs don't handle bezel-less edges very well.

Two screens
Wi-Fi for the internet & VOIP.
Cellular for cellphone if desired.
Bluetooth for earphones, keyboard, mouse.
Full MacOSX

With all this stuff, if it's the size of an iPod, you'll get about 20 minutes of battery life.

I think that this device would be rockin', yes, but with today's technology, you'll be lucky if it's 2x the thickness of an iPod, especially due to two LCDs and necessity of a LARGE battery (Wi-Fi, three bluetooth devices, two LCDs).

The folding things won't really work properly unless it's OLED, which is nowhere near ready for mainstrem applications. OLED requires no bezel, is very energy efficient, and can be "printed" on nearly any substrate.

The next big improvement we need is battery life. Something needs to be done about this universal hinderance. It makes laptops only last 3 hours and even small gadgets like iPods last for a mere 12 hours before being recharged.

Sorry to burst your bubble, but it's not gonna happen with today's technology.

-Clive

Maccus Aurelius
Mar 9, 2007, 03:26 PM
Two screens fold together like a book.
Slips in the pocket. Size of an iPod.
Flash memory for long battery life. 4GB, 8GB, 32GB.
Induction recharging of battery.
Wi-Fi for the internet & VOIP.
Cellular for cellphone if desired.
Bluetooth for earphones, keyboard, mouse.
Screen is touch sensitive of course and a tablet.
Sealed case, real world rugged, no ports, no openings.
Full MacOSX from a user's perspective but you don't need optical drive and a lot of other things.
Available in any color as long as it is black.
The iPal - it does it all.

iPal...I like it :D

Basically an apple branded wifi equipped organizer..kinda like those Tiger Electronics things that were advertised ad nauseam on tv back in the mid 90's :p .

It would have to have ports of some kind...so one could have a solid connection to it, even if it's just one sealable USB connector. Oh, and let's not forget a mini magsafe thingie :eek:

What I'm imagining here is a more advanced more expensive Nintendo DS.

Clive At Five
Mar 9, 2007, 03:33 PM
Wu, who was among the first analysts to forecast the unveiling of Apple's iPhone music player/phone earlier this year, cited unnamed industry sources as the basis for his report.

Even Reuters is listening to this guy! This needs to stop.

Secondly, Wu WAS NOT the first to predict the iPhone. The iPhone has been predicted since 1999 when they registered iPhone.org

People need to look at EVIDENCE before they spew this PURE CRAP at us!

-Clive

Mgkwho
Mar 9, 2007, 03:54 PM
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't we hear reports that the version of OS X in the iPhone were less than 500MB?

I think the 4GB meant the hard drive over all, not that OS X would take up 4GB.



The only way I see a sub notebook happening is if its capacity is 32 GB. No way could 4GB work unless there was some super syncing new feature...way beyond what's out right now.

I really hope for a new syncing with the user's preferences...there's a patent out I think...

-=|Mgkwho

TheManOfSilver
Mar 9, 2007, 04:23 PM
If Apple is to use this stripped down version of OSX on an ultra mobile PC, I think it'd probably be a really small computer, probably even a little smaller than a UMPC. If the screen were large enough, I don't see why they wouldn't want to use an operating system that had a complete Finder and window management system.

I agree. Basically the only other type of device that could use the mini-OSX and still be functional would be an Apple PDA (basically an iPhone without the phone ... or in other words, the eventual widescreen iPod).

Having a small format notebook or tablet or UPMC without the ability to install and run regular OSX applications (especially productivity software) would be a complete non-starter.

aswitcher
Mar 9, 2007, 04:28 PM
Maybe 2008.

This year the iPhone. Its as big as the Mac and iPod for Apple, so why distract people with another device.

Plus next year flash will be signficantly cheaper again, making a Mac Tablet more affordable.

Cinch
Mar 9, 2007, 04:58 PM
Agreed. The allure of the sub-notebook device is the small form-factor while still retaining the complete OS X experience. I can see certain physical features being omitted, i.e optical drive, but I would expect software features to remain intact. The iPhone is the smaller UMPC to a certain extent. Does anyone actually take this Shaw Wu seriously? Seems he just continuously regurgitates information, that he reads on the rumor forums.

Is it just me, but when I use the MacBook I don't conciously think of enjoying OSX or as you put it the "OSX experience". To me, I experience surfing the web for news, shop etc (Safari), organizing music (iTunes), and writing a manuscript (Word).

Cinch

juststranded
Mar 9, 2007, 05:34 PM
This simply won't happen. Apple is all about having only one version of OS X. On the iPhone, it'sa little diffrerent because you're only running basically 2 aspects of OS X. Music playback, and internet. Ok, and maybe widgets. If they were to put some mimi OS X on a mini laptop, people would have t relearn the whole system. Yes, they'd probably make it very similar, and of course easy to use once you got teh hang of it, but it's just not practical. They will always keep every new Mac running the same OS, with the same version.

Unless Steve Jobs leaves and so bozo replaces him.

2 cents.

whatever
Mar 9, 2007, 06:56 PM
...seems I might have to think twice about buying this...

not being able to run programs like parallels or rapidweaver would be a deal-breaker for me..

Once again people are missing the point for such a device. It's not meant to be a desk top replacement! Gee, I can hear people in this forum asking for a Octo-Core version and a mini-tower version.

whatever
Mar 9, 2007, 07:00 PM
Actually, I can.

I have the 17" PowerBook and it is starting to feel kinda small.

I had a 17" PowerBook and have since decided that it's to large (it's a pain in the airport and on a plane). I also do not like the 15" model either. I really do like the 13" MacBook, but I'm waiting to see if a new MacBook Pro in a similar footprint will be made available.

A laptop larger than 17" is just stupid and not practical.

Rocketman
Mar 9, 2007, 09:21 PM
As I have said for months now. Apple Tablet Not Nano (ATNN).

Need more memory, storage, full OSX? Pay LESS and get more and LARGER MacBook device.

Want miniaturization with "cool new features", albiet more limited in number and scope? Pay more.

"The more you pay the more it is worth." - truism

Rocketman

RocksInMySocks
Mar 10, 2007, 12:20 AM
Who would use something like this as their sole machine and desktop replacement? Umm, that would be me. At one time, I had 5 Macs in the house until I eliminated all except my 12" iBook and a Mac Mini (which serves exclusively as a very expensive DVD player).

I'm a designer and I do all of my work on the iBook. And while I don't handle video production, I'm not a light weight user... I deal with large Photoshop images, Flash development, and book-length InDesign docs. And even at less than 1GHz, processing hasn't been a major bottleneck (I'm not a gamer).

The iBook became my main machine because of my lifestyle. I require something portable: 1) so I can show clients work in progress; 2) because I like to work everywhere... on my couch, in bed, and at my favorite non-Starbucks coffeehouse; 3) I have friends who like to get together and compute/work/browse communally; 4) Google at my fingertips (WiFi depending); 5) I don't have space for a desktop. And get this, I want to go even smaller.

The iBook is freakin' heavy as a constant companion (try picking it up with one hand). It's also thick... my wrists begin to hurt after a period of typing from balancing on its sharp edge. I'd also like to not have to carry around a conspicuous and awkward-size laptop bag (an ideal size for a machine would be something that could fit inside a zippered notebook or a "man-bag"). So a fully-featured sub-compact would be the ticket, even without the IMHO rarely used optical drive.

But it would be useless to me if it was based on a watered-down OS and couldn't run real apps. Display size would also be crucial... just wide enough to display a typical website layout without having to zoom/scroll (i.e., not a pod-sized tablet). For detail work, I'd span Photoshop (et al) to my larger monitor and use the small screen for palettes.

An opinion on the touch screen nonsense: my fingers are bigger and less precise than a cursor and on-screen keyboards cost real estate. That said, I could easily see the trackpad becoming a tertiary screen for widgets.

mrthieme
Mar 10, 2007, 04:37 AM
One question, does anyone think that a touch tablet would need proprietary apps that are optimized for the less precise input method of multitouch or would it simply be running an interface on top of whatever program is used? ie: would something like Office need built in solutions to help you accurately place the cursor in a body of text, or would the OS have that handled. If the latter, I could see a specialized OS being used,( maybe one of Leapard's "secret features")

JimmyTJ
Mar 10, 2007, 09:00 AM
I'm trying to imagine where in the market this product would fit that wouldn't be merely a novelty item. Any ideas?

My idea would be that this isn't really going to be a sub-notebook per se (not a work device) but the true video iPod. It won't be small enough to put into your pocket but it will be smaller and lighter than a typical laptop and so easy to carry around.

One could carry it with them on a trip (plane and car) to watch movies, plug it into a TV at your hotel or cabin, and surf the internet, through WiFi, on your couch or down at the local coffee shop. I'm thinking iPhone without the phone but with a real keyboard for writin emails.

BoyBach
Mar 10, 2007, 09:16 AM
I could imagine a really small notebook/pda device designed by Apple with a 'basic' OSX being really popular.

If it offers 'decent' performance and allows for some 'basic' computing - Safari, Mail, iPhoto, iCal, iTunes, Preview, Keynotes and Pages, plus specially designed 3rd party apps - in a small package of say twice the footprint of an iPod, with Apples new multi-touch display and long battery life, it would corner the UMPC/tablet market quickly.

Students, teachers, business people, plus we 'tech whores' would eat them up.

50548
Mar 10, 2007, 10:46 AM
Unless Steve Jobs leaves and so bozo replaces him.


Ya mean Ballmer? Or would it be Sculley again? :rolleyes:

gerwitz
Mar 10, 2007, 05:36 PM
Perhaps the "mini OS X" on a flash-booting subnotebook is just that: the core OS (and Quartz) moved to flash for faster booting, with Aqua and userland still pulled off disk.

Cult Follower
Mar 10, 2007, 09:43 PM
I think instead of flash based laptops, they will build on the iPhone line, otherwise it will simply be a toy.

goosnarrggh
Mar 11, 2007, 11:33 AM
But this is partially correct. Multitouch screens are pressure-sensitive unlike most single-point touchscreens.
I was under the impression that it was something other than "pressure" sensitivity. IIRC, there's been speculation that the iPhone's screen uses charge-transfer capacitive sensors to detect proximity of materials with certain dielectric characteristics (specifically, the characteristics of a human finger) to detect actuation.

And I believe I've read first-hand accounts attesting to the fact that the iPhone doesn't respond to *all types of* pressure -- tapping it with a piece of plastic or a gloved hand garners no response at all. That would pretty much rule out the possibility of using pure pressure-sensitivity.

goosnarrggh
Mar 11, 2007, 11:34 AM
He also noted that Apple's use of ARM processors in iPhone is a definite confirmation of their strategic direction. The most significant device to use the ARM processor in Apple's past was the Newton. ARM specializes in processor designs specifically tailored to mobile communications platforms.

I'm sure that every iPod Apple has ever made doesn't count as a significant use of ARM processors... ;)

twoodcc
Mar 11, 2007, 11:39 AM
this would be really nice. i hope it's true, but that it's mini leopard, and not mini tiger though.

gnasher729
Mar 11, 2007, 03:18 PM
Perhaps the "mini OS X" on a flash-booting subnotebook is just that: the core OS (and Quartz) moved to flash for faster booting, with Aqua and userland still pulled off disk.

I'll just repeat that: You don't put stuff on flash for faster booting; it is an absolutely stupid idea. I know that is what Microsoft tells everyone they want to use Flash for, that doesn't make it any cleverer. You are not supposed to reboot a Mac portable, you close the lid, it goes to sleep, you open the lid, it wakes up.

Bedawyn
Mar 15, 2007, 10:23 AM
I've never understood the people who insist that something has to be either pocket-sized or bigger than 10" to be useful. There are whole companies devoted to making writing tablets, agendas, folios, address books, and assorted other low-tech data managers in 4X6, 5x7, and 6x9 sizes. Maybe all the geeks and wealthy businessfolk have forgotten that since they use their PDAs now -- but if you're old enough, didn't you carry that 5X7 agenda book around quite happily 10 years ago? And there are plenty of non-geek, non-wealthy people who still do -- or who have switched to using cell phones that they hate and would be happy to have something one-gadgety and reliable that they didn't have to squint at. And these are exactly the consumers Apple has chosen to target in recent years.

The fact that we can include more functionality in smaller sizes now is irrelevant. Can doesn't mean should. History has shown that people will happily use a 5X7 or similar form factor if the functionality is worth it.

traderonline
Mar 16, 2007, 04:57 PM
a small pda like touchscreen notebook with osx will be great.

quantman
Apr 17, 2007, 10:00 PM
Many/most may know that Apple is having a tough time in Japan where sub-notebooks are doing really well due to commute times being high (1 hour plus each way) and arm space in trains being a limiting factor.

This is why sub-notebooks are doing well in Japan as it is ideal for the commuter and then they can sync up with their laptop/desktop when they get into the office. Also, same for sales people and other mobile professionalsin Japan/Korea.

Additionally, those of you familiar with the Japanese/Korean everyday group meeting systems know that they all have way too many meetings over a sofa type mini-living room setting in the corner of a big hall which houses 20-30 offices with desks (but no cubicle style walls), or at mini-conference tables. This is how their group discussion/incremental process-driven consensus style decision-making system works in everyday work life.

For this culture - and realities of commuting and arm space- a sub-notebook is THE answer, the market already has it and the working public has begun to move to this already.

THE point of all this above is that if Apple wants to have a chance of making any kind of real headway with their computer business in Japan they need a sub-notebook really bad - and they need it yesterday.

I believe this has got to be key driving factor of a sub-notebook with multi-touch on a sub-notebook with flash being the secret functional differentiator/marketing sauce. Of course, Apple will also then be able to sell this big in European and U.S. metro cities.

As someone who has being business for large MNC's for many years and as one who knows that Apple is not making much headway with their growth rates on their Mac business in Japan, I believe this has to be a/the key driving factor for a sub-notebook.