Anyone in design education or industry?

tonyeck · Mar 10, 2007

Hi there,

Wonder if anyone who fits into the criteria above could help me with a project

My project is based around exploring the gap between leaving education and starting in industry. There is a big divide between the two and my aim is to explore ways to bridge that by collecting people's views, experiences and ideas... Here is my blurb

It is believed by many that industry often views new design and multimedia graduates as problematic. Designer Lee McCormack considers that design agencies, multimedia studios and other industries blames schools for not equipping graduates with the skills they need in the real world. It seems most graduates have the necessary skills, yet lack the business knowledge and experience to see how design works as a business model.

I think it is clear, like many, there is a problem with mixing new graduates with the industry, but need we waste time pointing figures at whom to blame? That serves no purposes, as what is required is to seek a solution and possible ideas ultimately aiding bridging this gap. Both parties have lots to contribute to each other.

I'd love to hear your opinions...

If you would like to help, can you visit http://www.tonyeckersley.com/gaps/index.html

Thanks for any help

If you have any questions, feel free to ask

londonweb · Mar 10, 2007

This is a great idea. I've filled in your form on the website.

Good luck!

tonyeck · Mar 11, 2007

Thank you very much! You reply was fantastic, thankyou for taking the time to do that!

I will let you know my results and stuff...

LeviG · Mar 12, 2007

You're at huddersfield uni, what course you studying

Been there done that - the info given by the tutors is absolutely rubbish and iirc about 5-10% of my year are actually in design (product, industrial and transport) the rest have gone into other fields!

According to the tutors there is a 90% job success rate (probably true if you include non design based jobs) - that's a load of rubbish for design jobs, there's the catch where businesses want the 2-3 years experience but only want to pay the 12-15k that we're told to look for when we go hunting for jobs, that's assuming you actually get an interview in the first place.

tonyeck · Mar 12, 2007

LeviG said:
You're at huddersfield uni, what course you studying

Been there done that - the info given by the tutors is absolutely rubbish and iirc about 5-10% of my year are actually in design (product, industrial and transport) the rest have gone into other fields!

According to the tutors there is a 90% job success rate (probably true if you include non design based jobs) - that's a load of rubbish for design jobs, there's the catch where businesses want the 2-3 years experience but only want to pay the 12-15k that we're told to look for when we go hunting for jobs, that's assuming you actually get an interview in the first place.

Yeah I am at Hud Uni doign Interactive Multimedia. The course is a joke in my opinion, but thats a different topic. You still there?

Would appreciate you filling out the form if you have time?

LeviG · Mar 12, 2007

tonyeck said:
Yeah I am at Hud Uni doign Interactive Multimedia. The course is a joke in my opinion, but thats a different topic. You still there?

Would appreciate you filling out the form if you have time?

nah I left three years ago give or take a bit, will do your form as soon as I have a bit of spare time

Interactive Multimedia - is that the course with all the virtual reality and stuff, canalside east building (well thats where it used to be anyways

)

ChicoWeb · Mar 12, 2007

Very interesting.

I myself am a web design instructor, and design business owner. My business comes first though.

I've noticed over the last 3 years of teaching that my students don't lack the technical ability, as that is what I teach, but they do lack the creative ability. Out of all of the students I've seen there are probably less then a handful that I would ever hire, and not more then one or two I would trust to design. I don't think its a direct correlation with anything other then talent.

As for business, I often inject real world stories to help them grasp concepts. But business sense is ofter better learned in the real world, not a class room. My college offers a design business course which goes over contracts, comps, business, etc and I hear it is a great class.

tonyeck · Mar 12, 2007

Hmmn, very interesting

I am going to add a questionnaire for tutors tonight or tomorrow, if you would be willing to add your views?

Miner Willy · Mar 12, 2007

I actually work in education teaching interactive media to BA level. I can understand to a certain extent where industry is coming from and that graduate are not equipped to deal with all the rigours of industry. But, one thing i have tried to do is develop links with local industry and get placements for students, ask industry leaders to come in and do talks and provide live, or at the very least realistic briefs to students. This is where the difficulty comes in, out of the twenty or so who I contacted only 3 or 4 had the time to speak to me directly and provide us with help. I am very, very grateful to them too. The rest didn't reply or at least had the courtesy of replying saying they were too busy.

You also have to remember that we are in the business of education, we have to provide students with the skill that aren't just relevant today, but have the ability to move with the times and problem solve, develop ways of learning new skills so they can move with the industry as it progresses, now just equip them with the skills they need today.

By the way I don't work at Hudds Uni (but fairly local to it), but if you were dissatified with the course, did you actually speak to anyone about it? Staff can't improve situation if they aren't aware that there's a problem. Where I work we on average a 60-80% success rate of students working in related fields within 12-18 months. All of these students were determined, hard working individuals attending college 5 days a week and working at home just as much. If you don't put in the hours thenyou aren't what's needed by the industry, it's bloody hard work, I should know I used to work in it.!!

Anyway rant over

tonyeck · Mar 12, 2007

Miner Willy said:
I actually work in education teaching interactive media to BA level. I can understand to a certain extent where industry is coming from and that graduate are not equipped to deal with all the rigours of industry. But, one thing i have tried to do is develop links with local industry and get placements for students, ask industry leaders to come in and do talks and provide live, or at the very least realistic briefs to students. This is where the difficulty comes in, out of the twenty or so who I contacted only 3 or 4 had the time to speak to me directly and provide us with help. I am very, very grateful to them too. The rest didn't reply or at least had the courtesy of replying saying they were too busy.

You also have to remember that we are in the business of education, we have to provide students with the skill that aren't just relevant today, but have the ability to move with the times and problem solve, develop ways of learning new skills so they can move with the industry as it progresses, now just equip them with the skills they need today.

By the way I don't work at Hudds Uni (but fairly local to it), but if you were dissatified with the course, did you actually speak to anyone about it? Staff can't improve situation if they aren't aware that there's a problem. Where I work we on average a 60-80% success rate of students working in related fields within 12-18 months. All of these students were determined, hard working individuals attending college 5 days a week and working at home just as much. If you don't put in the hours thenyou aren't what's needed by the industry, it's bloody hard work, I should know I used to work in it.!!

Anyway rant over

This is the kind of argument I am looking for and like I said originally, I am personally not blaming the industry or education, but looking at others views.

I may not be satisfied with my course and I have talked in great depth about how I feel to my tutors. The result is that I have designed my own degree in my final year expressing my interests in matters like this one and experimenting in other areas. It's why I pay tuition fees at the end of the day - It's my education and I will get the best I can from it. Unfortunately my course was undergoing a major overhaul and I feel like I was stuck in the middle of it meaning I missed out on some things newer students have access to.

We have some fantastic tutors at Huddersfield yet basic business knowledge about the design world is heavily missing and, unfortunately, I think many of my peers have the wrong impression of the industry. Personally, I have been fortunate enough to experience the real world whilst at University with the benefits of a year in Industry. I was able to extend mine to 18 months as I working in Washington DC at a 'boutique' style graphic design/multimedia company where I learnt the in's and out's of design as a business as well as making a living. I have a lot to learn still but this experience was priceless and I believe most Universities should offer this opportunity, and I believe they do like you say...

tonyeck · Mar 12, 2007

...and by the way, I love to see tutors really caring about their students future - thanks for sharing.

G.Kirby · Mar 13, 2007

This topic is very close to our philosophy here at Swansea Institute of Higher Education. Over the past few years we have been developing our BA Art and Design courses to produce Job Ready graduates. Not only do we have a proven track record of success in achieving this goal but we are also recognised as a centre of excellence and innovation. This has been made possible by many contributing factors, course content, design theory, current and future technologies, externality as well as many other areas.

With the introduction of course fees and now elevated course fees we feel that employability is critical to a graduating student. As you will know, students will graduate with a huge amount of debt and gaining work in their chosen field of study is the ultimate goal.

It would be interesting to hear of your learning experiences and also to see what feed back questionnaire points out.

We are constantly updating our course content to include feed back from graduated students as well as what people in the industry want to see in a new employee.

tonyeck · Mar 14, 2007

Thanks for the feedback so far everyone - I really appreciate it and have some great responses so far!

G.Kirby said:
This topic is very close to our philosophy here at Swansea Institute of Higher Education. Over the past few years we have been developing our BA Art and Design courses to produce Job Ready graduates. Not only do we have a proven track record of success in achieving this goal but we are also recognised as a centre of excellence and innovation. This has been made possible by many contributing factors, course content, design theory, current and future technologies, externality as well as many other areas.

With the introduction of course fees and now elevated course fees we feel that employability is critical to a graduating student. As you will know, students will graduate with a huge amount of debt and gaining work in their chosen field of study is the ultimate goal.

It would be interesting to hear of your learning experiences and also to see what feed back questionnaire points out.

We are constantly updating our course content to include feed back from graduated students as well as what people in the industry want to see in a new employee.

I owe you an email

ezekielrage_99 · Mar 14, 2007

Yeah I tend to agree with the majority of the posts inregards to the "gap" between university/college and transfering that into commercial terms.

I found when I was at university the lectures who had sucessful careers in animation/multinedia/web had a better grap and way of teaching what is needed for the industry were way better than the one who have just been teaching without being in the industry.

When I finished university (2003) I had a real hard time finding employment, I had an excellent graps of the software/hardware but not much when it came to commercial viable interms of using the software/hardware. I ended up joining the Royal Australian Air Force as and Imagery Analyst (Officer Position).

I'm now out and looking for work (I've just been freelancing) and I beleive most universities out there are more concerned about getting the students through the system rather than having any insight or care for the graduates actually finding full time employment. And yes all the "figure" about job place from universities are HUGE oversights.

tonyeck · Mar 16, 2007

Thanks to everyone again

Just a bit of a bump - I would love some more contributions... anyone?

MacPanda · Mar 17, 2007

I studied in Central Saint Martins in london and did product design it was the worst three years of my life - the course was rubbish the teaching was poor the teachers just didn't give any support one lecture and one tutorial a week and that was it - it is really shameful the rubbish education they have - i should have gone to brunel or loughborough they are much better from what i have heard.

LeviG · Mar 17, 2007

MacPanda said:
I studied in Central Saint Martins in london and did product design it was the worst three years of my life - the course was rubbish the teaching was poor the teachers just didn't give any support one lecture and one tutorial a week and that was it - it is really shameful the rubbish education they have - i should have gone to brunel or loughborough they are much better from what i have heard.

what you mean you actually got a lecture AND a tutorial, blimey in my final year I had 2 group tutorials totalling 30mins each with atleast 5 people in each group giving me a grand total of 12 minutes tutor time during a week

G.Kirby · Mar 17, 2007

LeviG said:
what you mean you actually got a lecture AND a tutorial, blimey in my final year I had 2 group tutorials totalling 30mins each with atleast 5 people in each group giving me a grand total of 12 minutes tutor time during a week

I find this a bit disturbing. We give our final year Graphic Design students time tabled one to one tutorials of around 15 to 20 minutes each week (depending on number of students in the year) plus about 45 minutes to 1 hour of group seminars as well as an afternoon where students can book a time slot if they require.

As for first and second year groups they both get a total of 15 hours contact time per week for the degree programme and we are just about able to cram in what they need to know. There is no way a student can truly learn what is required by their chosen profession on their own, a proactive support structure must be in place that gives guidance, advice, knowledge and experience.

LeviG · Mar 17, 2007

yeah but by the final year we were supposed to know what we're doing

G.Kirby · Mar 18, 2007

LeviG said:
yeah but by the final year we were supposed to know what we're doing

Students should know the basics by their final year but to expect them to know everything is an unreasonable request as the lecturers dont know it all them selves.

I really enjoy third year tutorials because of the variety for projects. All the yr3 projects are self driven and each student encounters unique design problems which keeps it fresh and interesting for me as a lecturer. The projects range from commercial graphics and typography to some barking mad personal projects.

LeviG · Mar 18, 2007

thats the thing in my case with my final project the tutors didn't really have any experience with what I was designing, they liked little plastic things but mine was an all metal product

tonyeck · Mar 20, 2007

http://www.tonyeckersley.com/gaps/q-t.html

Added a section for those who teach design education

Thanks for continued support!

Anyone in design education or industry?

macrumors 6502

macrumors 6502

macrumors 6502

macrumors 65816

macrumors 6502

macrumors 65816

macrumors 65816

macrumors 6502

macrumors regular

macrumors 6502

macrumors 6502

macrumors regular

macrumors 6502

macrumors 68040

macrumors 6502

macrumors regular

macrumors 65816

macrumors regular

macrumors 65816

macrumors regular

macrumors 65816

macrumors 6502

Our Staff