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MacRumors
Mar 12, 2007, 02:11 AM
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The New York Times writes (http://www.nytimes.com/2007/03/09/technology/09palm.html?_r=1&ref=technology&oref=slogin) about Palm's recent hire of Paul Mercer, a former Apple engineer, who most recently had founded Pixo. Pixo was a software that served as the basis for the original Apple iPod.

The article suggests that Mercer's work at Palm will involve some form of response to Apple's iPhone announcement.

The designer, Paul Mercer, a former Apple computer engineer, began work three weeks ago at Palm on a line of new products, a company spokeswoman said, but she declined to comment further on the project.

Palm is one of the companies that is felt to be most affected by a succesful launch of the Apple iPhone.



Sir
Mar 12, 2007, 02:20 AM
Absolutely sucks! :(

Shagrat
Mar 12, 2007, 02:23 AM
I wonder how long that will take to get to the shops, given the iPhone's lead on the market?

LaughingMan
Mar 12, 2007, 02:23 AM
Palm legitimately has the most to fear from the iPhone, I'm afraid. They haven't had any real compelling products for years since the PDA went out of style. Since then, they have had the moderately successful Treo (which technically, they acquired from purchasing Handspring... hmm). Unfortunately for them, they are so poor at staying cutting edge with their products.

The current Treo lacks basics like built in Wifi, is significantly chubbier and heavier than its competitors, and it seems that Palm takes forever to put out updates to the formfactors of their products.

The iPhone probably doesn't directly compete with Palm's Treo business, as it is still targeted for the enterprise market whereas the iPhone is not, but any more competitors (Apple especially) entering the phone market will have the effect of shrinking Palm's slice of the pie, and soon all of the air will be sucked out of the room, unless Palm pulls something better from its sleeves than multi-colored Palm Treos.

Peace
Mar 12, 2007, 02:24 AM
Mercer didn't work on the iPhone at Apple.Only the older iPod's.This will have no effect in competition at all.Apple is still ahead of the pack.

Shagrat
Mar 12, 2007, 02:26 AM
Absolutely sucks! :(
Maybe. Maybe not.

But entirely to be expected.

Once again, Apple sets the bar!

inkswamp
Mar 12, 2007, 02:27 AM
Honestly, I didn't know Palm was a real player in tech anymore. I'm not saying that to be sarcastic, but I can't think of anything they've done recently that matters.

Anyway, it's funny how things change. I wonder how many people will express pity and/or support for Palm forgetting that their most successful product was a take-off on a product idea that Apple developed originally.

DMann
Mar 12, 2007, 02:37 AM
Honestly, I didn't know Palm was a real player in tech anymore. I'm not saying that to be sarcastic, but I can't think of anything they've done recently that matters.

Anyway, it's funny how things change. I wonder how many people will express pity and/or support for Palm forgetting that their most successful product was a take-off on a product idea that Apple developed originally.

True, the Palm Pilot was an incarnation of the Apple Newton. Not a bad knock-off, but needless to say, a real light-weight. The iPhone will be one tough act to follow, especially since Apple is working on Rev B, as we speak:)

dguisinger
Mar 12, 2007, 02:38 AM
Palm legitimately has the most to fear from the iPhone, I'm afraid. They haven't had any real compelling products for years since the PDA went out of style. Since then, they have had the moderately successful Treo (which technically, they acquired from purchasing Handspring... hmm). Unfortunately for them, they are so poor at staying cutting edge with their products.

The current Treo lacks basics like built in Wifi, is significantly chubbier and heavier than its competitors, and it seems that Palm takes forever to put out updates to the formfactors of their products.

The iPhone probably doesn't directly compete with Palm's Treo business, as it is still targeted for the enterprise market whereas the iPhone is not, but any more competitors (Apple especially) entering the phone market will have the effect of shrinking Palm's slice of the pie, and soon all of the air will be sucked out of the room, unless Palm pulls something better from its sleeves than multi-colored Palm Treos.



Quite honestly, one must add that just because MS makes a software update doesn't mean it will work on your windows mobile phone. The carrier must make their version available, and the support usually sucks. I've had two windows powered phones, one 3 years ago and one this past year. I will say this: "Never Again"

They crash, lose calls, there is an audioglitch where rining/notifications stop after the phone is running 24-48 hours even though on the screen it shows a call coming in, so many things don't work with windows mobile its not even funny.

The one thing palm had going for them was non-MS users purchased them, aka, Apple users. Now apple has their own product, palm will disappear.

I must say its sad, but Palm hasn't had anything in years. They got developers to hand code in assembly, which made apps super small, but extremely hard to adjust to adding color and multimedia support.

*edit*

also forgot to add, iPhone has a full blown OS running on it.....Palm can't match the capabilities under the hood on the iPhone anytime soon; not that apple included every feature of OS X...but enough is there to make it a formidable competitor.

McGarvels
Mar 12, 2007, 02:39 AM
No offense to this guy...but he's only one man. He is not Apple. There is no way one man will be able to compete against a team of brilliant people who "think different". Don't get me wrong though, this guy might help Palm out a little bit, but there is no way he can compete with Apple. Just my 2 cents.

techytrent
Mar 12, 2007, 02:41 AM
i really don't see a big concern with palm. as stated earlier, the guy helped with the development with the older ipods....that's it.

we've come a long way since the early ipods.

LaughingMan
Mar 12, 2007, 02:48 AM
Quite honestly, one must add that just
also forgot to add, iPhone has a full blown OS running on it.....Palm can't match the capabilities under the hood on the iPhone anytime soon; not that apple included every feature of OS X...but enough is there to make it a formidable competitor.

To be fair, Palms should eventually start running Linux (Access Linux Platform, is what its called after that company bought their Palm OS division) in the near future, if Palm doesn't fold up shop soon.

In terms of being a full blown OS, Linux should be there to give Palm what it needs in terms of a preemptive OS... not so sure about the graphical capability though, which quartz and opengl on Mac OS X should do well on the iPhone.

arn
Mar 12, 2007, 02:55 AM
I don't think this one guy is a threat so much as Palm is presumably taking things seriously.

erockerboy
Mar 12, 2007, 02:56 AM
This is good news for consumers. Apple raises the bar, and the competition scrambles to keep up - consumers will be the ultimate winners.

Interestingly, the NYT article notes that this guy Mercer was the lead designer on System 7 as well as the original iPod UI. Sounds like a pretty high powered dude.

Also in the NYT article - rumors that Palm is retaining Morgan Stanley to explore the possible sale of the company? Hmmm.....!

Exciting times ahead in cell phone land, fer shoor.

toughboy
Mar 12, 2007, 02:59 AM
No offense to this guy...but he's only one man. He is not Apple. There is no way one man will be able to compete against a team of brilliant people who "think different". Don't get me wrong though, this guy might help Palm out a little bit, but there is no way he can compete with Apple. Just my 2 cents.

I dont know who this guy really is, but I completely agree with you. This is a team-game and he is only a one guy. Even extraordinary people like S.J. or Jon Ive are only one man, what makes them so special is the team they pick and how they lead that team.

I hope Palm survives though.. Competition is never bad. A serious brand like Palm to hold on in the market will force Apple to make better iPhones for us :)

just my :apple: :apple: cents..

Peace
Mar 12, 2007, 02:59 AM
This is good news for consumers. Apple raises the bar, and the competition scrambles to keep up - consumers will be the ultimate winners.

Interestingly, the NYT article notes that this guy Mercer was the lead designer on System 7 as well as the original iPod UI. Sounds like a pretty high powered dude.

Also in the NYT article - rumors that Palm is retaining Morgan Stanley to explore the possible sale of the company? Hmmm.....!

Exciting times ahead in cell phone land, fer shoor.

Great! so Palms gonna come out with an old fashioned click wheeled iPhone killer that runs System 7? :rolleyes:

dr opposite
Mar 12, 2007, 03:08 AM
Whatever happened to the BE OS that Palm bought? I thought they'd have had a really good basis for a light but powerful hand held. :confused:

dr opp

thesheep
Mar 12, 2007, 03:24 AM
Would be great if Palm could come out with a great iPhone competitor in a year or so. Anything that stops the marketplace being dominated by 1 or 2 players in technology is usually good I think, and in the end would help ensure that Apple always keeps those high standards. If only Palm could do something about their OS.

Bye Bye Baby
Mar 12, 2007, 04:00 AM
Absolutely sucks! :(

Why should it suck??? This is maybe the competition Apple needs to get the iphone up to the level that we expect. You know competition for Apple is a good thing. Apple is a business not your budy. ;)

NewSc2
Mar 12, 2007, 04:05 AM
more competition for Apple = better Apple products

Belly-laughs
Mar 12, 2007, 04:05 AM
Palm CEO Ed Colligan on the persistent rumors that Apple will be introducing a Apple phone in the near future:



"We've learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone,'' he said. "PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They're not going to just walk in.''



Seems Apple just did, hence their responce.

gavd
Mar 12, 2007, 04:34 AM
Great! so Palms gonna come out with an old fashioned click wheeled iPhone killer that runs System 7? :rolleyes:

Just because the guy worked on these years ago doesn't mean he'll still be coming up with the same ideas.

a456
Mar 12, 2007, 04:39 AM
I wonder how long that will take to get to the shops, given the iPhone's lead on the market?

At least two years to get something that is better than the current iPhone, but by that time the iPhone will have been updated. Looks like it will be a long game of trying to catch up if they've only been working on an iPhone killer for three weeks.

RedTomato
Mar 12, 2007, 04:46 AM
I know so many people in both UK and USA who still love their Palms, or who have recently converted to Palm through buying a second hand one cheap (Palm Titanium etc).

These things are so cheap second hand now, and you get a lot for the money aparently. I don't have one but I'm considering it.

If Palm could put out a *cheap* iPhone competitor, Apple would have a struggle on their hands.

Good. Bring it on!

Darkroom
Mar 12, 2007, 04:57 AM
If Palm could put out a *cheap* iPhone competitor, Apple would have a struggle on their hands.


i'm not so sure about that... there are too many companies who build products under the assumption that customers are uninformed fools, but everyone knows that you (usually, and in the case of most Apple products) get what you pay for...

mrthieme
Mar 12, 2007, 05:41 AM
I'm going to agree with those above who see this as positive, competition is what drives us to improve. And who knows, maybe Palm will come up with some good ideas that Apple can "borrow".

IntrinsicMac
Mar 12, 2007, 05:46 AM
If Palm could put out a *cheap* iPhone competitor, Apple would have a struggle on their hands.

Palm, Cheap?!?! Ha! My fellow classmates & I paid over $400 USD for our Palm T5s and TXs (read PDA only, no phone capabilities) when they were first released. We are required to have them for work but since Palm keeps their prices so high and competitors the PocketPC devices have been dropping in price our school now allows people to buy either. Heck if Apple makes the iPhone where it can run our medical database apps, I would happily dump my Palm for it.

Heck you can buy a MotoQ for $99, some samsung for $150 but the Treos 700s cost $399. Somehow, I don't see Palm's $100 dollars less for a much more inferior device passing the muster of many users who dont need the specialized apps.

tny
Mar 12, 2007, 05:59 AM
Whatever happened to the BE OS that Palm bought? I thought they'd have had a really good basis for a light but powerful hand held. :confused:

dr opp

What happened is that the bright minds at Palm decided to spin off the Palm OS division as PalmSource, thinking that would make it easier for them to license their OS to third parties because the third parties wouldn't be worried that Palm was getting a leg up with the OS. What happened in actuality is that all the high-profile Palm PDA makers dropped out: Handspring was bought by Palm so they could get the Treo, Sony dropped the PDA (at least in North America), and so on. Then some kind of infighting over the direction of Palm OS resulted in POS 5 being dubbed "Garnet" and POS 6 being dubbed "Cobalt" and Palm - the standard bearer for the OS, even if they no longer owned it - never actually releasing anything with Cobalt. So even more companies dropped the OS. Then PalmSource decided to replace the Cobalt kernel with a Linux kernel. Still nobody bought, not even Palm. Also, Palm stopped updating most of their product lines (the Tungsten C, which was popular on the high end, was NEVER updated, and has only been discontinued recently, after 4 or 5 years at the same specs). They tried releasing the LifeDrive, a PDA with a decent-sized HD, but how popular was it? It's no longer even sold from Palm's website. Eventually PalmSource was bought out by a third party, ACCESS, and it looks like Palm as a platform is collapsing into the Treo line - which still runs a 5 year old OS (except for one WidowsMobile-based phone) whose rights Palm recently bought from ACCESS.

Myself, I don't think that the PDA as a platform is dead: I think the management at Palm killed it by being too cautious about switching platforms.

blad3z
Mar 12, 2007, 05:59 AM
apple has made a revo though doin the iPhone..multitouch and all..and alot of it is patented..so..really..to make something that is to combat the iPhone...hopefully will be something that will be cheaper..by maybe even just a lil but make us all go 'WOW' like the iPhone did..haha 'you had me at scrolling' :P every1 remembers that quote..and i agree..the scrolling had me too! hahaha..if they had that in the new video iPod..wow..id be so happy..i can touch my music!YAY!but seriously..is palm that much of a threat?the treo isnt even THAT great...my parents had it...then my mum put it away and bought a nokia...and of course..the palm president must feel like an idiot saying that pc guys cant just walk in into somethin thats taken years for palm..apples got so much advertising schemes etc. to back up the iPhone that, really..the iPhone is gonna be..like the iPod in the end hopefully...if u have the cash to spare of course :p when rev b comes out...that will hopefully be another 'setting the bar' moment..good luck to palm :)

DTphonehome
Mar 12, 2007, 07:01 AM
Would be great if Palm could come out with a great iPhone competitor in a year or so. Anything that stops the marketplace being dominated by 1 or 2 players in technology is usually good I think, and in the end would help ensure that Apple always keeps those high standards. If only Palm could do something about their OS.

Amen! The iPhone isn't for EVERYONE (like us medical types...sorry, but I don't foresee ePocrates or Unbound medicine on iPhone OS ever), so it would be nice to see a little Apple design/usability injected into the best iPhone alternative. Lord knows the Treo could use it.

Why do people think it's terrible for there to be some competition to the iPhone? Do they really expect 100% of phone sales to be won by Apple, and anything less is abject failure?

failsafe1
Mar 12, 2007, 08:13 AM
Man that is so potentially funny. Let's wait until a great product (anyone of several) come out and then hire a former staffer to give us something similar. Why not innovate something yourself? Now is Palm comes out with a smoking great product light years ahead of anything else that is great. Competition is the next best thing in industry right behind innovation so don't just lag behind jump ahead. Just so everyone reading knows I don't plan on buying a iPhone. Considered it and now is not the time. I would simply love to see other companies giving us products ahead of the curve and hope Palm will do the same.

andiwm2003
Mar 12, 2007, 08:15 AM
Amen! The iPhone isn't for EVERYONE .................................................................................Why do people think it's terrible for there to be some competition to the iPhone? Do they really expect 100% of phone sales to be won by Apple, and anything less is abject failure?

i'm also surprised why so many people see it as negative that palm tries to get their act together. more competition means more choices for us. i'm a fan Palm OS and i like to have a simple phone and a good PDA, not an expensive do it all iPhone.

so to me this is good news. i hope Palm comes up with a device that competes with the Nokia N800, the dell Axim and still is as simple and sleek as the Palm TX. and if they build a great phone that competes with the iPhone so be it.

yg17
Mar 12, 2007, 08:21 AM
I welcome the competition. Perhaps Palm could make a phone that's better than the iPhone and not locked to the worst carrier in the US

bigandy
Mar 12, 2007, 08:27 AM
I've had two windows powered phones, one 3 years ago and one this past year. I will say this: "Never Again"

They crash, lose calls, there is an audioglitch where rining/notifications stop after the phone is running 24-48 hours even though on the screen it shows a call coming in, so many things don't work with windows mobile its not even funny.

I have to disagree completely. I've had a WM5 based smartphone for the last year, and it's the best one I've ever had. My Palm experiences were good, but not as good, and my SonyEricsson P900 experiences were further short of what WM5 has been for me.

The only reliability issues I have with it are because I keep dropping the damn thing. :rolleyes:

nichos
Mar 12, 2007, 08:39 AM
Absolutely sucks! :(

Since when did competition suck?

More competition, more choices, better products.

twoodcc
Mar 12, 2007, 09:41 AM
well this can't be that good. hopefully they won't come out with a copy of the iPhone though. we'll see

s10
Mar 12, 2007, 09:47 AM
I actually think that if the iPhone is a success it will stimulate the luxury smart phone market and if Palm responds with good or cheaper smart phones, not necessarily like an iPhone, Palm will increase their sales.

stagi
Mar 12, 2007, 09:54 AM
I agree that competition is good news, even if palm does release something that is really amazing and more affordable it might lower the price for the iPhone :)

compudude86
Mar 12, 2007, 10:07 AM
Great! so Palms gonna come out with an old fashioned click wheeled iPhone killer that runs System 7? :rolleyes:

lol, id buy it.

Clive At Five
Mar 12, 2007, 10:56 AM
i'm not so sure about that... there are too many companies who build products under the assumption that customers are uninformed fools, but everyone knows that you (usually, and in the case of most Apple products) get what you pay for...

If that's true, then why are so many people STILL buying $300 budget-PCs? Customers ARE uninformed fools.

Just yesterday, I walked my dad through the building of two computes, one Apple MacBook Pro and one Dell XPS. He had a hard time believing the Mac was actually cheaper. All these years, he has maintained that Macs were more expensive. I said, "no, Apple, just doesn't sell crappy cheap computers. We'll build two identical computers and compare prices." Needless to say, I won.

He's stubborn enough to go buy another Dell, though. Don't think I made him a switcher. My fiancee, now that's a different story. I roped her in, and now she wants us to get matching MBPs... How can I argue with that?

:D

-Clive

BiikeMike
Mar 12, 2007, 11:34 AM
I think it's good that Palm is "responding to the iPhone" There are those of us who use the Treo's and love them. I don't see myself switching carriers, paying a termination fee, losing all of my "in" network free calls just so I can use an iPhone. To me, and this is totally subjective since I have not used one yet, I think that the "plasticy" keyboard that Steve Jobs kept making fun of on his keynote is a much better alternative to having to type ON THE SCREEN. That just seems like a bad idea to me.....

The iPhone is also aimed at consumers, not professionals like the Treo, Blackberry, etc. If I am at work, I don't need a fancy GUI getting in the way of my productivity and and iPod on my smartphone.... that is why I have an iPod!


And for those of you that say Palm is going down the toilet, lets not forget that they just bought back the rights to all of their trademarks for $44 MILLION (http://investors.palm.com/ReleaseDetail.cfm?ReleaseID=221399). Would a company that is about to fold spend $44 Million to get back their trademarks?

I think its good that Palm is supposedly upping the ante, I think they definantly need new products, and that for the people out there like me, who don't want the iPhone and would rather stick to their Treo, I'm glad!

BobbyDigital
Mar 12, 2007, 11:42 AM
Wow... if I worked for Apple, Palm would have to pay me a whole crapload to leave! Palm just seems like they're going down the tubes to me.

nptski
Mar 12, 2007, 12:04 PM
I have a loyalty problem but I'm getting over it. I had to go to the dark side for a while until the Intel/Parallels release but always loved the Mac OS and happily bought a Blackbook and just got my second C2D (my first GUI was a LISA, so I go pretty far back).

Palm is becoming another story. I loved my first Treo 600, then a 650 (which I should have kept), and then to a VZN 700P for EV-DO which is cool but that's where it ends. There a long known white screen lag and a short freeze often making calls unaswerable or or other cute tricks. Palm has stiffed us for 10 months and I am done. Apple's iPhone may work for me, it's being billed as a consumer oriented device but phone and email centric which is what I need. I'm sure the apps will come but it looks like I may own my last Palm.

kermit4161
Mar 12, 2007, 12:06 PM
I welcome the competition. Perhaps Palm could make a phone that's better than the iPhone and not locked to the worst carrier in the US

Amen to that! I'm using a Treo 650 (just now upgraded from a 600) and would love to see a new, better option from Palm. I won't ever get an iPhone because they've chosen Cingular as a carrier and they don't cover my area. So I'm stuck with Palm until Apple adopts other carriers...

DTphonehome
Mar 12, 2007, 12:57 PM
Palm is becoming another story. I loved my first Treo 600, then a 650 (which I should have kept), and then to a VZN 700P for EV-DO which is cool but that's where it ends. There a long known white screen lag and a short freeze often making calls unaswerable or or other cute tricks. Palm has stiffed us for 10 months and I am done. Apple's iPhone may work for me, it's being billed as a consumer oriented device but phone and email centric which is what I need. I'm sure the apps will come but it looks like I may own my last Palm.

Exactly. My treo is the same way and it's driving me mad. So now I'm waiting on the Samsung i760. WM6 supposedly is a lot better than WM5, and Palm OS is just so stagnant it makes me wonder what in the world all those employees of Palm DO all day.

lazyrighteye
Mar 12, 2007, 02:36 PM
As both a Treo 650 & Mac user, Palm could hire the baby Jesus and I wouldn't be worried.
For starters, babies are no real threat. Even the "special" baby.
Secondly, until Palm has access to OS X code and can achieve the tight level of integration the iPhone can, they're dead in my eyes.

Sure, Palm will turn out some nice products in the coming years. But as long as Apple is controlling the phone experience for this Mac user, sorry Palm. Not interested.

And as many have stated, competition is good for Apple which is good for us.

Dare I say "go Palm?"

BilltheCat
Mar 12, 2007, 04:10 PM
True, the Palm Pilot was an incarnation of the Apple Newton. Not a bad knock-off, but needless to say, a real light-weight. The iPhone will be one tough act to follow, especially since Apple is working on Rev B, as we speak:)

should we wait for revision B to buy an apple phone? Whats in this rev so you know?

Cult Follower
Mar 12, 2007, 06:58 PM
The more competition the better for Apple, but I hope palm doesn't copy Apple's entire design and interface.

iMikeT
Mar 12, 2007, 08:25 PM
I wonder what Jobs is going to say about this.

Jack X Kodiak
Apr 18, 2007, 12:38 AM
I know so many people in both UK and USA who still love their Palms, or who have recently converted to Palm through buying a second hand one cheap (Palm Titanium etc).

These things are so cheap second hand now, and you get a lot for the money aparently. I don't have one but I'm considering it.

If Palm could put out a *cheap* iPhone competitor, Apple would have a struggle on their hands.

Good. Bring it on!


So how are they going to pay for all that new R&D, really big bucks, then weave a magic path and evade all the patents Apple has on their iPhone, meaning a LOT more R&D, and a lot of legal fees, then sell a *cheap* iPhone competitve product? Right.

We all know, those of us that use Palm Treo's, how hard they work at R&D, product support, and user friendly interfaces, don't we? All those R&D dollars at work, huh?

They are dead men walking in my opinion (disclosure: I own 5 Treo 700p's, and plan on replacing them with iPhones ASAP).

Nym
Apr 18, 2007, 05:14 AM
Meh, I'm waiting for my 2gb, 300$ iPhone Nano (and you can bet that'll be the next step for Apple) :D

iscripter
Apr 19, 2007, 01:11 PM
It's to little to late for Palm IMO.

I had been a loyal Palm OS fan and I have had three different Palm OS based smart phones (Samsung I-300, Treo 600, Treo 650). And I think there is not a whole lot of difference between the devices. The Treo's are really good PDA's but just ok phones. For years Palm has been able to get away with only coming out with minor updates to the hardware and software for their Treo devices. But now they have no choice but to innovate and come out with something that is going to compete with the iPhone. When the iPhone does come out it will be the final nail in the coffin for Palm and the Palm OS. The first nail was when they decided to start shipping Windows mobile based Treo's.

After a while you just get tired of carrying around a brick for a phone and I have switched to a nice slim flip phone the Samsung M610. Which costs less than a Treo but it still allows me to do 90% of the things I was doing before. With mobile applications like Gmail mobile, Google Maps mobile and the free google 411 service. It's only a matter of time before they have a mobile version of google calendar and then I will have everything I need.
:cool: