Pentagon's top general called homosexuality immoral

[e²Studios]

Just when you think that we are making strides in the right direction, some high up mucky muck makes a comment like this.

This guy should be reprimanded in more ways than just forced to give a tongue in cheek apology, which is just a slap on the wrist to him and a slap in the face to those that he insulted/hurt with his comments.

"As an individual, I would not want (acceptance of gay behavior) to be our policy, just like I would not want it to be our policy that if we were to find out that so-and-so was sleeping with somebody else's wife, that we would just look the other way, which we do not. We prosecute that kind of immoral behavior," Pace was quoted as saying.


http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/03/13/pace.gays.ap/index.html?eref=rss_topstories

Ed

[leekohler]

Well, I was waiting for this to happen. Yeah, homosexuality is the same as adultery. :rolleyes: And please excuse me for not bowing down to your upbringing.

[jayb2000]

Yeah, unlike bombing innocent civilians or brain washing or torture...

ewww Men kissing! :rolleyes:

[mkrishnan]

just forced to give a tongue in cheek apology

Oh, wait, nvm...I thought you were talking about something else. :o

He did seem to really go off at the mouth, though... not a lot of reserve for a high ranking officer....

[TheBobcat]

Oh, wait, nvm...I thought you were talking about something else. :o

YES!!!!!

I thought there was recently a poll that said like 70% of soldiers wouldn't have serious problems serving with a gay comrade. Besides, with our low recruitment levels, why turn people away? Gay people can fire a gun as good as the next person.

[Bill Gates]

One fact that many people seem to be missing is that the miliary has its own so-called code of morality. Under this code, it is immoral to commit homosexual acts. Other legal albeit morally questionable activities are also listed such as adultery. The general may have been stating his personal opinion, or he may not have. In any case, his words mirror the opinion of the military as a whole.

[MACDRIVE]

When I was in the military, I knew which guys were gay and which ones weren't, but I never gave it a second thought because they never bothered me one bit; if anything, they were some of the nicer guys on the boat. ;)

[Chundles]

When I was in the military, I knew which guys were gay and which ones weren't, but I never gave it a second thought because they never bothered me one bit; if anything, they were some of the nicer guys on the boat. ;)

How'd someone who's basically blind get in the military?

Oh nevermind, we're talking about a nation who'll elect someone who's basically inept to the highest office in the land.

[MACDRIVE]

This one shipmate of mine, who I knew was gay, would always oil himself up with baby oil after getting out of the shower. ooooweeee! :)

[solvs]

Of course we should let homosexuals be in the military. I'm sure we'd be shocked if we found out just how many were, latent or not. Considering we lost almost all of our Muslim translators because people like this guy are in charge, I'm thinking those who are uncomfortable should just get over it.

Besides, any straight dude who's uncomfortable showering with gays probably has a small penis. ;)

[obeygiant]

Besides, any straight dude who's uncomfortable showering with gays probably has a small penis. ;)

Uhhh, What the heck are you talking about?

[leekohler]

Besides, any straight dude who's uncomfortable showering with gays probably has a small penis. ;)

Now you've gone and done it! You figured out why we don't bother you straight guys! :)

[Queso]

I know this is this guy's personal opinion, but once again you have to ask what the reaction would be if his thought processes had led him to believe inter-racial marriage was immoral and then voiced that.

The "military" having a problem with gays is like "Christians" having a problem with gays. A few people who have their own personal issues with it don't actually speak for the majority.

[e²Studios]

I know this is this guy's personal opinion, but once again you have to ask what the reaction would be if his thought processes had led him to believe inter-racial marriage was immoral and then voiced that.

The "military" having a problem with gays is like "Christians" having a problem with gays. A few people who have their own personal issues with it don't actually speak for the majority.

My issue with that is these people are leaders, people who should be role models and not spouting off ignorant comments like this. Not everyone is as well informed as a lot of you are in this particular forum, comments like this made by leaders can have an adverse affect on more than just the community that he is insulting with his ignorance.

Ed

[Queso]

My issue with that is these people are leaders, people who should be role models and not spouting off ignorant comments like this. Not everyone is as well informed as a lot of you are in this particular forum, comments like this made by leaders can have an adverse affect on more than just the community that he is insulting with his ignorance.
But he's being pulled up on it. Go back twenty years and his comments wouldn't have received such widespread condemnation. So there is progress, however slow.

[OwlsAndApples]

But he's being pulled up on it. Go back twenty years and his comments wouldn't have received such widespread condemnation. So there is progress, however slow.

True. Everyone should be forced (or encouraged...:)) to see Philadelphia the film. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_(film)) I saw it again last night and it is still shocking stuff.

[leekohler]

True. Everyone should be forced (or encouraged...:)) to see Philadelphia the film. (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philadelphia_(film)) I saw it again last night and it is still shocking stuff.

As a gay man, I hated that movie. It played to some bad stereotypes and made me wince more than few times. But if it works for you, cool. ;)

[joepunk]

Read Garrison Keillor’s (http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/03/14/keillor/index_np.html) piece on gay marriage and gay parents over at Salon.com.

Keillor, concerned about the emotional well-being of children, has come to praise heterosexual marriage, monogamy, and life-long commitment.

Well what do you know, his wikipedia article states that he has been married THREE TIMES. Has children from two of the marriages, who probably need a program to keep track of their step-siblings, half-siblings, and any extended families.

He failed to live up to the ideals he's sprouting out of his mouth.

[leekohler]

Read Garrison Keillor’s (http://www.salon.com/opinion/feature/2007/03/14/keillor/index_np.html) piece on gay marriage and gay parents over at Salon.com.

Keillor, concerned about the emotional well-being of children, has come to praise heterosexual marriage, monogamy, and life-long commitment.

Well what do you know, his wikipedia article states that he has been married THREE TIMES. Has children from two of the marriages, who probably need a program to keep track of their step-siblings, half-siblings, and any extended families.

He failed to live up to the ideals he's sprouting out of his mouth.

Umm...I think that article was supposed to be humorous. ;)

[Swarmlord]

I know this is this guy's personal opinion, but once again you have to ask what the reaction would be if his thought processes had led him to believe inter-racial marriage was immoral and then voiced that.

The "military" having a problem with gays is like "Christians" having a problem with gays. A few people who have their own personal issues with it don't actually speak for the majority.

The God of the big three main religions said it was an abomination. Christians, muslims and Jews didn't just decide they didn't like them on a whim. We supposed to be more enlightened than God is on this subject? I'm just asking because the word "immorality" is being questioned in this case and frankly unless a deity is involved how would morality apply? If there's no God, then behavior can be illegal, but not immoral.

[leekohler]

The God of the big three main religions said it was an abomination. Christians, muslims and Jews didn't just decide they didn't like them on a whim. We supposed to be more enlightened than God is on this subject? I'm just asking because the word "immorality" is being questioned in this case and frankly unless a deity is involved how would morality apply? If there's no God, then behavior can be illegal, but not immoral.

Huh? There's no such thing as morality without a "God"? What are you talking about? I seriously beg to differ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality

[Queso]

The God of the big three main religions said it was an abomination. Christians, muslims and Jews didn't just decide they didn't like them on a whim. We supposed to be more enlightened than God is on this subject?
If you assume that religion is nothing more than a combination of perpetuated delusion mixed with global fraud, then you can safely conclude that yes we are. Because there is no God.

I'm just asking because the word "immorality" is being questioned in this case and frankly unless a deity is involved how would morality apply? If there's no God, then behavior can be illegal, but not immoral.
Morality doesn't come from a book, it comes from within. Religion just likes to lay claim to it as it does with so much else in life.

[obeygiant]

Morality doesn't come from a book, it comes from within.

Just a point of clarification, within? Within what? Our brains? Certainly not a soul. If someone were brought up to kill, it wouldnt be immoral to them. And since we're not accountable to anyone besides ourselves, we could do anything to anyone without getting caught. If universal morality does exist where is it written?

"If God is dead, everything is permitted." - Jean-Paul Sartre

[obeygiant]

Huh? There's no such thing as morality without a "God"? What are you talking about? I seriously beg to differ.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Morality

I wouldnt stake too much in that wiki article. I'm sure its not the "end all" of sources for the god/morality debate. Eventhough the article talks a lot about it, it doesnt actually say "Morality comes from ....."

[leekohler]

I wouldnt stake too much in that wiki article. I'm sure its not the "end all" of sources for the god/morality debate. Eventhough the article talks a lot about it, it doesnt actually say "Morality comes from ....."

Oh give me a break. What are you getting at? Why don't you just say it instead of beating around the bush?

[mactastic]

I'd be curious to see how many of the 'wingers defending this general's "right to speak his mind" would have the same opinion if, say for example, a Clinton-era head of the Department of Education had said that he thought military service was immoral as he was requesting that recruiters not be allowed on school campuses...

Somehow I think they'd be shrieking that government officials don't have the right to express their opinions as part of their job capacity, and would be demandind the resignation of said official.

[obeygiant]

Oh give me a break. What are you getting at? Why don't you just say it instead of beating around the bush?

Say what? That the Wiki article you posted doesn't (and shouldn't) convince me either way on the deity/morality debate?

[leekohler]

Say what? That the Wiki article you posted doesn't (and shouldn't) convince me either way on the deity/morality debate?

What is it that isn't convincing you? And I really don't know what it is you're trying to debate.

[obeygiant]

What is it that isn't convincing you? And I really don't know what it is you're trying to debate.

On the contrary my posts should be clear to anyone reading them. What are you getting at?

[Queso]

Just a point of clarification, within? Within what? Our brains? Certainly not a soul. If someone were brought up to kill, it wouldnt be immoral to them. And since we're not accountable to anyone besides ourselves, we could do anything to anyone without getting caught. If universal morality does exist where is it written?

"If God is dead, everything is permitted." - Jean-Paul Sartre
We've evolved a conscience so that our offspring are brought up in a more stable social structure and therefore greater numbers survive into adulthood and can breed themselves. The rules by which each conscience operates are programmed in by the parents and other influences during childhood. In groups a set of agreed rules form, and the agreed rules change over the generations so that the group can adapt to its circumstances. That's how it works with nature.

Of course the system isn't perfect, but that's because the process of human beings evolving is still ongoing, and if there's one thing evolution allows for it's mistakes.

As to your question of who we're accountable to, the only answer is to each other.

[leekohler]

On the contrary my posts should be clear to anyone reading them. What are you getting at?

Nothing, but it sounds to me as if you are trying to link "God" and morality. Is that the case? If so, just say it. If not, fine.