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MacRumors
Mar 14, 2007, 11:39 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

According to Reuters, the European Union's consumer chief Meglena Kuneva is softening her stance (http://www.reuters.com/article/governmentFilingsNews/idUSL139204020070313) on Apple's iTunes-iPod ecosystem. Recently, she had been quoted (http://www.reuters.com/article/technology-media-telco-SP/idUSL1114922320070312) as comparing Apple's store with CD's, and the lack of transportability of Apple's tracks to other devices meant "something has to change."

The comments had sparked some fears that the EU was interested in pursuing legal action to force Apple to change its policies. However, Kuneva clarified that that is not the case.

Meglena Kuneva told a news conference there was no reason to talk about legal action against the U.S. computer and technology company and that she merely wanted to raise questions.

"I would like, really, to start this debate. What is best to develop this market and to have more consumers enjoying this really very important, very modern way of downloading and enjoying the music?" she said of Apple's iTunes.

Several European nations and consumer groups have been pressuring Apple (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/24/european-countries-up-pressure-on-itunes-fairplay/) to allow iTunes purchases to be playable on portable media players other than Apple's iPod.



MacVault
Mar 14, 2007, 11:44 AM
Forget opening up fairplay... Just do away altogether with the f---ing DRM and everything will be great! Did jobs write that letter a while back just to make his customers think he's on our side? Come on, Jobs, if anyone can stron arm the labels you can! Put your money where your mouth is, Mr Jobs!

:mad:

OwlsAndApples
Mar 14, 2007, 11:45 AM
CDs all the way still for me. However, if Apple did let 'foreign' music players use iTunes it may benefit everyone. BTW isn't it possible to use some thrid-party software to get round this. (Although I guess that's not the point)

roland.g
Mar 14, 2007, 11:47 AM
I don't know why so many people want to be able to play iTunes content on other players, when most of them are inferior to the iPod. It just works. Look at how well it's doing. Is it really because of the store? I doubt it. It's because they released iTunes for Windows.

acearchie
Mar 14, 2007, 11:48 AM
so apples in the free . . .?

crees!
Mar 14, 2007, 11:51 AM
What is best to develop this market and to have more consumers enjoying this really very important, very modern way of downloading and enjoying the music?"

I guess more people just need to purchase from iTS and maybe buy an iPod to listen on the go :D

Yvan256
Mar 14, 2007, 11:54 AM
Why not force Microsoft to make Windows games compatible with both Mac OS X and all the Linux distros? ;)

I know, I know. Music files and games are two extremely different things. But the differences between the two DRM systems (Fairplay and Plays For Sure) are more similar to the differences between, say, Open GL and Direct X.

marchhare
Mar 14, 2007, 11:58 AM
Who are the new Apple lawyers? Getting the "iPhone" ok, getting Apple Corps on board, now this... If only they can work their magic on the SEC and we'll be all good!

twoodcc
Mar 14, 2007, 12:01 PM
well i guess this is kinda good news....hopefully no lawsuit will come of this

BornAgainMac
Mar 14, 2007, 12:07 PM
Who are the new Apple lawyers? Getting the "iPhone" ok, getting Apple Corps on board, now this... If only they can work their magic on the SEC and we'll be all good!

They are busy looking at the rumors on Macrumors. Looking for someone to disclose a secret or something. It is a full time job checking all the discussion boards.

TheBobcat
Mar 14, 2007, 12:18 PM
Good analogy on DirectX. Maybe the Euros should force MS to open up their stuff too, instead of just not packing in Windows Media Player (which I assume probably comes in as an "Automatic Update" like how IE once again infested by system after uninstalling it twice).

In all honesty, I really don't see what significant damage opening up FairPlay could really do. I mean, Apple claims that it is under the gun by the labels if FairPlay gets cracked, but at this point, the music companies would have to be retarded to dump the number one legal music download source. Albeit, intelligence and music labels have yet to rendezvous.

All it could mean is more saturation for iTunes. People like the iPod for more reasons than the fact its the only thing to play iTMS downloads on. That's proven by the fact that most iPod owners don't have too much from the iTMS on it, if anything at all.

But iTunes offers more than its alternatives. For those that don't want self-destructing music files, or subscriptions, or to convert their money into Microsoft Points (shudder), it is a great music store with a great selection. Apple could proliferate more in that arena.

k2k koos
Mar 14, 2007, 12:23 PM
I think it is a healthy thing to get a debate going , but it shouldn't be Apple only, it's the record companies that need a good review on their demands on how to distribute music, both to Apple and others that run a pay download service.
It would be nice to be able to play your music on any device you want, pretty much as a CD can play in players of various manufacturers.
However, this will mean not only Apple has to open up it's store to all players, but all other services too. Music downloaded from Microsoft will have to play on an iPod, and iTunes music on a Zune for instance.

This will get some healthy competition going , players going head to head etc.
iPods are currently still the best in my opinion (my personal needs are more than covered), but competition can't be a bad thing if it means the iPod will evolve in an even better player. I for one would like the audio circuitry to be overhauled and have a lower distortion, clearer , high end headphone/line output on these, there are players out there that sound a little better, but the iPod wins hands down on ease of use and design.

In the end, the consumer wins, and if Apple is proactive, it will keep it's lead in this field by a large margin.

shigzeo
Mar 14, 2007, 12:25 PM
sure about good to get rid of drm, but unfortunately the wrong people are pursuing this. format is one thing, but the drm about music especially is another.

i cannot imagine buying a cd which also is supposedly drm and have it play on only my sony machine since sony owns the record lable or on my marantz as it is a only for marantz. gaming is different, as it is meant to play on only one machine, but our music world is tightening its grip around us till soon perhaps not one itunes, but only work on one ipod.

before this digital scare, you could bring tapes, vinyls and cd's over to someones house and listen, now you have to bring your ipod and use your dock to connect. you are not bringing a matter of 50$ of music with you, but your music which you purchases for at least 50$, plus your player for 400$. the system as it stands now is ludicrous and unfair and has nothing to do with socialism... that made no sense at all

Westside guy
Mar 14, 2007, 12:38 PM
Maybe the Euros should force MS to open up their stuff too, instead of just not packing in Windows Media Player ...

Maybe they should force Microsoft to at least make it's own DRM compatible with all Windows Media players... :D

Speaking more seriously - I suspect a lot of these regulators, not being particularly computer savvy, haven't wrapped their minds around the fact that Microsoft does this to a far greater degree than Apple. After all, everyone runs Windows already, don't they? :rolleyes: So that means there's no lock-in when it comes to Microsoft...

shelterpaw
Mar 14, 2007, 12:42 PM
One thing I can't stand about DRM is having to burn my tracks to a ReWrite disc and rip them back into my computer. I use Ableton to DJ and DRM is an obstacle I could do without. I've bought less music from iTunes and primarily go to small independent music stores because of it.

TheBobcat
Mar 14, 2007, 12:47 PM
Speaking more seriously - I suspect a lot of these regulators, not being particularly computer savvy, haven't wrapped their minds around the fact that Microsoft does this to a far greater degree than Apple. After all, everyone runs Windows already, don't they? :rolleyes: So that means there's no lock-in when it comes to Microsoft...

I've met people who didn't realize that you could use a computer without using Windows. I'm sure a lot of these government officials are in that boat as well. I don't know about Europe, but we still have Ted Stevens.

"One of my ugh...people sent me an internet....and it...ugh...took 3 days to get here.....because...well...ugh the Internet....was clogged because you can't just dump on the Internet." :eek:

TheBobcat
Mar 14, 2007, 12:50 PM
because you can't just dump on the Internet." :eek:

Really? But I see Germans do it all the time! :confused:

(sorry, couldn't resist)

NAG
Mar 14, 2007, 12:50 PM
Forget opening up fairplay... Just do away altogether with the f---ing DRM and everything will be great! Did jobs write that letter a while back just to make his customers think he's on our side? Come on, Jobs, if anyone can stron arm the labels you can! Put your money where your mouth is, Mr Jobs!

:mad:

Because god forbid the consumer put their money where their mouth is.

darwen
Mar 14, 2007, 01:21 PM
Forget opening up fairplay... Just do away altogether with the f---ing DRM and everything will be great!

ditto. I dont get why everyone is pissing their pants over this. It is simple, stop trying to capitalize off the mess the music industry is in and just start helping the consumer.

I dont buy CDs because most of the songs are usually crap. I dont download from iTunes because I am not able to do what I please with the files. There isnt an easy way to get music... I thought having all of these sources was supposed to make things easy! Just fix the mess! Stop blaming companies!

It is their fault, but blaming them is not going to fix it. Apple create an mp3 player, naturally they want to have people buy it. They think: lets make it easy to get music and only make it work on our technology! (I am oversimplifying this but you get the picture) Therefore they are capitalizing off the music industry. Indeed this is a problem but as Jobs has already stated Apple wants to work with the industry to solve this. Will anyone just let him do that?


Did jobs write that letter a while back just to make his customers think he's on our side? Come on, Jobs, if anyone can stron arm the labels you can! Put your money where your mouth is, Mr Jobs!

I dont know if I agree with that though....

MacVault
Mar 14, 2007, 01:27 PM
Because god forbid the consumer put their money where their mouth is.

I do now - I buy DRM-less CDs at WalMart and rip them into iTunes rather than buy on iTunes. And when/if iTunes drops the DRM I will be much happier cuz I won't have to drive to WalMart and breathe all the germs as a walk to the back of their stores.

I promise I am at least one consumer who will put their money where their mouth is. No doubt about it!

The EU should be going after the music labels to force them to NOT REQUIRE DRM. Apple/iTunes is not REALLY going to fix the main problem.

Maccus Aurelius
Mar 14, 2007, 01:29 PM
I don't see what the big deal is. When I started purchasing iTunes music back in 2005 I was still using a 256MB Sony player to go biking with. But as a pretty quick workaround I burned my tracks to disc and then ripped them into Sonicstage and loaded them onto my player no problem. None of this took very long, and I then had a permanent non-DRM'd copy of my iTunes purchase.

I don't believe that Apple should actually open the software itself to sync with every player under the sun as it would an iPod. I have a very strong feeling that this would prove detrimental and it would make for a very buggy interface, then people would complain to apple that their Cowon, Archos or those knock-off nano clones aren't syncing properly and it's all their fault.

Instead it would be cool to have a sort of transferral client that can select which specific software you're porting the music to and determine the particular player hooking into that interface so the transition is smoother. It would have to also convert the codec since many players don't support Apple's.

freediverdude
Mar 14, 2007, 01:37 PM
Sorry, but the music companies can't have it both ways. They started selling cd's way back when with no DRM, and still do for the most part. Those cd's can be shared on a torrent program just as easily as songs purchased online if they had no DRM. So what's it gonna be, music companies?? Either you have to lock down both physical cd's and music files purchased online, all with a DRM that's going to work on all players, or you have to get rid of DRM. Or a possible third choice, of every music company partnering with a specific cd maker or online store and have their songs only play on those devices. Which wouldn't work because then people won't be able to have all the music they like on one device. But they can't have it both ways, with cd's open and music files sold online closed, because that's discriminating against the people who purchase the online files, as well as the fact it doesn't really protect the songs- because people can either A.) burn and re-rip to get rid of the DRM, or B.) buy the CD and load it right into the torrent site of their choosing. So, music companies, what's your decision? Are you going to add DRM to cd's, or get rid of DRM? It's your choice, because you opened pandora's box when you first started selling cd's without it. You can only sue so many people and rack up so much in legal fees before you realize it's a lost cause. You're going to have to make a choice, and make it soon. Good luck.

Maccus Aurelius
Mar 14, 2007, 01:47 PM
The ridiculous pricing of many CD's is what really drives me away. I buy my music online because for the most part I can buy individual tracks. Of course some may argue that .99 cents is too high for one song, it's a hell of a lot better than paying almost $20 for a CD containing maybe one or three songs that you like out of twelve. For sheer convenience I believe that people who were already paying for their music would still do so if the music online was DRM free, so I don't see why it's so restrictive. With software like tunebite DRM is a joke, not to mention the humongous hole that iTunes CD burning puts in the whole restriction management scheme. Many many people would still get legitimate copies of music quite simply because it guarantees consistent quality and more consistent active sources, unlike peer to peer networking which can depend on the popularity of the file and or availability of sources in general.

mdriftmeyer
Mar 14, 2007, 02:07 PM
24/96 lossless recordings on CDs are large files in portables and drastically reduces the total tracks stored claim for any player. My CD player is a dumb device and very simple. I don't spend my days walking around with earbuds in my ears. In the car it's nice to have the kit and switch between collections, but even then I want high quality recordings. Most people don't care, obviously.

Copland
Mar 14, 2007, 02:12 PM
I really don't think apple should open up iTunes to other players.

For some reason, the analogy that is coming to mind for me is Mac OS on generic PCs. One of the reasons Macs rule is that apple has close control over what their operating systems will run on. Same with iTunes: they have control over what the content can be put on, so the support for the device is much better.

cgc
Mar 14, 2007, 02:17 PM
If "the Euros" are upset about Apple not opening up iTunes then Apple should simply disable the iTunes store in Europe. People should be grateful Apple trail blazed and understand this is a business. Heck, I wish a lot of things would change but that have to be a certain way to protect others' livelihood.

Maccus Aurelius
Mar 14, 2007, 02:32 PM
I think the major problem is that people are complaining, and are not providing viable solutions of their own regarding the closed ecosystem. I can't see how iTunes would be any better supporting any player you hook up to it since the manufacturers of those players may not even design their hardware to meet the requirements of it. Sony definitely won't since they'll probably want to hold on to their Connect store, Microsoft is currently holding onto their own closed system and Creative and a few others are already feeding off of their own DRM-wrapped media source through Rhapsody and whatever else.

maxp1
Mar 14, 2007, 03:08 PM
Seems like the EU wants to talk about open DRM. Which just seems like a contradiction in terms. The DRM key has to be stored somewhere and if everyone knows where it is and how it works then what's the point.

#1 solution here is for the music labels to drop DRM altogether. Hell, they release all of their music in a non-DRM format anyway (CD), why not allow it to be sold DRM free in electronic formats too.

Hmm.. Maybe it's because when you buy a CD you have to buy all the other crap on the album also, instead of just the one or two tracks that are actually good. They're protecting their ability to sell the crap they produce by bundling, not just the good music. I guess that makes sense for them, but not for the people who are essential forced to choose between buying 8-9 crap songs to get a single good one and buying the single song in a DRM crippled format.

Maccus Aurelius
Mar 14, 2007, 03:32 PM
Don't forget also that lots of online albums don't allow all of the songs to be purchased individually. If DRM were extinguished this sort of thing would still be around. They know that those album only songs are usually the most popular too, and if you read reviews you see that most people are pissed that they can't buy that one song that they wanted. Sometimes one can find the same song on another album but most times not. It sucks.

iMeowbot
Mar 14, 2007, 03:43 PM
Did jobs write that letter a while back just to make his customers think he's on our side?
Of course. I'm still waiting for him to put his money where his mouth is and stop carrying music from labels that insist on DRM. Not all of them do.

k2k koos
Mar 14, 2007, 04:01 PM
24/96 lossless recordings on CDs are large files in portables and drastically reduces the total tracks stored claim for any player. My CD player is a dumb device and very simple. I don't spend my days walking around with earbuds in my ears. In the car it's nice to have the kit and switch between collections, but even then I want high quality recordings. Most people don't care, obviously.
I do care, I love music, and the average stereo doesn't do it justice, including iPods, making matters worse is the compression used in this type of players, but to start with, things could improve by enhancing the hardware, hence my request for improved output stages, but i agree that that's not where the story ends, uncompressed files at the quality you suggest is the way forward,especially since memory prices are gradually dropping.

SeaFox
Mar 14, 2007, 04:54 PM
They were going to bring legal action, but then they got distracted by the latest singles on the UK iTunes store. :D

Maybe they should force Microsoft to at least make it's own DRM compatible with all Windows Media players... :D

This is probably the very reason they didn't pursue legal action against Apple. If they had they would have been obligated to treat Microsoft the same way. I think governments don't want to admit that Microsoft has grown too large to control. The debacle of the U.S. antitrust trial and the E.U. continuously faltering hold Microsoft to the terms of their antitrust trail shows this. Any place they have been found guilty the sentence/reparations are so low its not even a punishment. Microsoft needs to be broken up AT&T-style, but no one has the guts to do it because they're afraid of the effect it would have on the economy.

rish
Mar 14, 2007, 05:28 PM
DRM does not affect me at all, in fact I care little about it. What I do care about is getting a fair price for my music and iTunes achieves that.

Now everyone is going on that Apple should do this and Apple should do that. Stop and think for one moment. What if the shoe was on the other foot, do you think MS or any other company would allow Apple to tie a product to work with their music stores. Yep I tihnk not I hear you say.

Also why is that the stupid people on the planet kick up a fuss about iTunes then go to consumer groups and cry no fair. All is fair dipstick, didn't you read the system requirements, didn't you even think to consider compatibility issues, are you the type of moron who would go out and buy a betamax cassette to play in a VHS machine. Are you the same person who purchased a cheap Windows based PC with Windows home edition thinking that it would also have the compelete suite of Microsoft Office products and that you would not have to fork out 399 for it. Whoops sorry you undoubtly are hence why you got some putts at the EU fighting your corner.

The best thing is that there is a loophole that can be exploited where you can burn your tracks purchased on iTunes and move to another media format, but hey I am talking stupid people here who don't have a clue.

Shame we don't have a worldwide policy on knumb skulls.

For those of you with some savvy, lets not forget the dark days at Apple where the doors could have remained permanently shut. Lets not forget when Jobs got back on board and started working his magic Adobe would not even consider making a basic photo app for Macs.

Open up iTunes hah, hah, lets think how many companies would do that if thery had a heard start hmmm, Micro........

Stella
Mar 14, 2007, 06:42 PM
If "the Euros" are upset about Apple not opening up iTunes then Apple should simply disable the iTunes store in Europe. People should be grateful Apple trail blazed and understand this is a business. Heck, I wish a lot of things would change but that have to be a certain way to protect others' livelihood.
There are plenty of other music stores in Europe.

It wouldn't be a great loss for them... especially since a small minority use Macs, so there's no issue with Mac compatibility and online music stores. Apple would then be critized for not supporting the DRM on the remaining music stores, since iPod is the most popular MP3 player.

Apple are the ones to lose to in this situation.

Re: above.

Yes, if Apple were serious about non DRM - they would remove the fairplay DRM on the indy labels that do not require it on their material.

shigzeo
Mar 14, 2007, 08:00 PM
I do care, I love music, and the average stereo doesn't do it justice, including iPods, making matters worse is the compression used in this type of players, but to start with, things could improve by enhancing the hardware, hence my request for improved output stages, but i agree that that's not where the story ends, uncompressed files at the quality you suggest is the way forward,especially since memory prices are gradually dropping.

now i think we might be off-topic a bit and this forum will do no good to push audiophile or headfi stuff as probably we are more mac-focused than dual cap out headphone sockets and op-amp rolling and valve versus transistor talk.

your conversation hasn't much to do with drm. with what you have in mind, buy the cd, but make sure you don't play it on your home player without at least a signature 30 amp, singlepower headamp, valhalla power cables etc etc.

i think that this conversation would be a little shorter and more volatile had it not been apple on the frying pan here. if it were microsoft, we'd be up with our pitchforks to bring them down*edit* speaking of whom, the zune has dual cap out much like our beloved 1g shuffle -- just load up your eac, windows media lossless ripper and pump them into your zune, one microsoft point after another, then plug in your portable headamp (i assume you have one) and let windows media rock your world!

*edit* alas for free-speech, it will make socialists of us all...

SPUY767
Mar 15, 2007, 04:39 AM
Anyone who voted yes to the poll: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capitalism

SPUY767
Mar 15, 2007, 04:45 AM
sure about good to get rid of drm, but unfortunately the wrong people are pursuing this. format is one thing, but the drm about music especially is another.

i cannot imagine buying a cd which also is supposedly drm and have it play on only my sony machine since sony owns the record lable or on my marantz as it is a only for marantz. gaming is different, as it is meant to play on only one machine, but our music world is tightening its grip around us till soon perhaps not one itunes, but only work on one ipod.

before this digital scare, you could bring tapes, vinyls and cd's over to someones house and listen, now you have to bring your ipod and use your dock to connect. you are not bringing a matter of 50$ of music with you, but your music which you purchases for at least 50$, plus your player for 400$. the system as it stands now is ludicrous and unfair and has nothing to do with socialism... that made no sense at all

You might want to consider this as your avatar.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/7/7e/Hammer_and_sickle.svg/100px-Hammer_and_sickle.svg.png

SPUY767
Mar 15, 2007, 04:48 AM
Don't forget also that lots of online albums don't allow all of the songs to be purchased individually. If DRM were extinguished this sort of thing would still be around. They know that those album only songs are usually the most popular too, and if you read reviews you see that most people are pissed that they can't buy that one song that they wanted. Sometimes one can find the same song on another album but most times not. It sucks.

Yup, you can't purchase Peter Frampton's Do You Feel Like We Do? without purchasing the rest of the Frampton Comes Alive album. But that's fine by me, I have the DVDA 5.1 version anyway.

SPUY767
Mar 15, 2007, 04:54 AM
24/96 lossless recordings on CDs are large files in portables and drastically reduces the total tracks stored claim for any player. My CD player is a dumb device and very simple. I don't spend my days walking around with earbuds in my ears. In the car it's nice to have the kit and switch between collections, but even then I want high quality recordings. Most people don't care, obviously.

One, CD's are not 24/96, They're 16/41, I hope you knew that and just didn't write yourt post clearly. Two, 24/96 uncompressed = 562 kilobytes per second. That would make The aforementioned Do You feel like we do consume 458 megabytes of HD space.With all of my music recorded at that lossless bitrate, my music collection would weigh in at an astonishing 208 Terabytes. Trust me, it ain't getting that cheap.

cgc
Mar 15, 2007, 11:21 AM
I do care, I love music, and the average stereo doesn't do it justice, including iPods, making matters worse is the compression used in this type of players, but to start with, things could improve by enhancing the hardware, hence my request for improved output stages, but i agree that that's not where the story ends, uncompressed files at the quality you suggest is the way forward,especially since memory prices are gradually dropping.

Do you listen to LPs still?

EagerDragon
Mar 15, 2007, 12:15 PM
Simple, buy a CD (she seems to like those), rip it to MP3 format, and load it in all the devices you desire.

If in itunes then make a play list with all the music you want, burn a cd, rip it into mp3 format and load it in all the devices you want.

NOBODY is locked to iTunes or the iPOD, it takes a little work. If one can not be boddered to go thru the steps, then obviously playing the music in a different devices was not such an important issue. Instead people just complain and the politicians overreact.

I can't believe that she compared the freedom you get with a CD versus the ties with iTunes. In both cases the music can be moved from place to place, one takes more steps than the other but you have the freedom eitherway.

EagerDragon
Mar 15, 2007, 12:33 PM
All EU has to do, is create a law that prohibits the sale of music with any and all forms of DRM.

No pushing, no negotiation, no talking back, its the law (or would be).

Now labels have no choice, Apple, M$, and others have no choice, all music DRM free just like a CD.

Now that is helping the people. Don't tell me about the rights to protect the Artist, CD does not protect the Artist either. Lets balance the issue and not overload one side. Same protection.

How long does it take to rip a CD? 10 minutes? Is that going to make it that much harder so pirates will not copy the music and make it available?

What about before there was iTunes and iPods? Did not keep them from pirating either.

IMHO DRM makes no sense, but then that is my opinion, you will probably think different, that is what makes the world go around, different opinions.

Maccus Aurelius
Mar 15, 2007, 04:01 PM
I don't see how anyone in their right mind can find a real reason for the DRM scheme to exist. With the ease of going around it I'm amazed it hasn't been killed off yet.

The 5 computer per account rule imposed by the iTunes DRM has no effect on me since I burn and rerip songs to transfer to other computers, thus circumnavigating the restriction with little to no effort on my part. Gracenote, being the handy little tool it is, will rename the songs, and then add the album art into the receiving library. Isn't that sweet? Now, this may mean lower quality music to the more sophistomicated of cochleas, but to me this method is *slap* Dy-no-mite.

The DRM scheme runs on a half-baked assumption that all PMP owners are theives and need to be kept on a tighter leash. Ironically if not for the DRM scheme I'm willing to bet more people would be willing to simply purchase music online and be happy for the convenience and consistent quality rather than trudging about on a peer to peer network trying to find favorite songs. (Anyone who does this often knows this can be a pain in the ass on occasion)

exboroboy
Mar 15, 2007, 05:30 PM
DRM does not affect me at all, in fact I care little about it. What I do care about is getting a fair price for my music and iTunes achieves that.

Now everyone is going on that Apple should do this and Apple should do that. Stop and think for one moment. What if the shoe was on the other foot, do you think MS or any other company would allow Apple to tie a product to work with their music stores. Yep I tihnk not I hear you say.

Also why is that the stupid people on the planet kick up a fuss about iTunes then go to consumer groups and cry no fair. All is fair dipstick, didn't you read the system requirements, didn't you even think to consider compatibility issues, are you the type of moron who would go out and buy a betamax cassette to play in a VHS machine. Are you the same person who purchased a cheap Windows based PC with Windows home edition thinking that it would also have the compelete suite of Microsoft Office products and that you would not have to fork out 399 for it. Whoops sorry you undoubtly are hence why you got some putts at the EU fighting your corner.

The best thing is that there is a loophole that can be exploited where you can burn your tracks purchased on iTunes and move to another media format, but hey I am talking stupid people here who don't have a clue.

Shame we don't have a worldwide policy on knumb skulls.

For those of you with some savvy, lets not forget the dark days at Apple where the doors could have remained permanently shut. Lets not forget when Jobs got back on board and started working his magic Adobe would not even consider making a basic photo app for Macs.

Open up iTunes hah, hah, lets think how many companies would do that if thery had a heard start hmmm, Micro........

I completely agree with this statement if we are going after apple to open up the ipod should we also not go after sony because non of their ps3 games work on my xbox360 and their both gaming platforms, people get upset because the songs you buy from itunes dont work on a different player, then the answer is simple dont buy an ipod and dont buy from itunes. Apple did not start this market but they sure did make it a good experience for all.

EagerDragon
Mar 15, 2007, 07:44 PM
I completely agree with this statement if we are going after apple to open up the ipod should we also not go after sony because non of their ps3 games work on my xbox360 and their both gaming platforms, people get upset because the songs you buy from itunes dont work on a different player, then the answer is simple dont buy an ipod and dont buy from itunes. Apple did not start this market but they sure did make it a good experience for all.

IMHO we fight one battle at a time, otherwise you win none.

I love to see the RIAA be procsecuted for their Mafia like tactics as a good starting point.

But I agree with others that Apple needs to remove DRM from all songs that do not contractualy require it. After Steve wrote the letter, he needs to back it up. Actions speak louder than words.

Next I like to see the major labels either stop making CD(s) and stick to DRM, or drop DRM and sell online like they do with CD(s) (DRM free). Im tired of their forked tongue.

I mainly buy CD(s) and once in a while I may go to itunes for a song for a home movie, but mainly I like having a CD and keeping it in mint condition to rip as I need if the files get corrupted or I erase by mistake.

SPUY767
Mar 16, 2007, 04:33 AM
I guess these Nazi-esque wunderkind see a world where everything is androgynous and nothing has its own identity, where you can buy a Bugatti Veyron, and complain that the exhaust system costs $78,000 and instead put a $48 Kia muffler on it. The bottom line is, this is the very foundation of capitalism, and a corporation should be allowed to do whatever they want for the good or ill of their company unless they are overtly harming consumer interests. If anything, Apple has done more than any other company in the realm of digital music to stifle the greedy maw of the recording industry and yet, Apple is by far the most lambasted digital music vendor simply because it prefers a vertically integrated business model in order to ensure quality end to end.

Meglena Kuneva, kiss my ass.

EagerDragon
Mar 16, 2007, 05:05 AM
Meglena Kuneva, kiss my ass.


Well Said.

SPUY767
Mar 16, 2007, 06:07 AM
Well Said.

Thanks, but I considered the first paragraph, rather than the footnote, to be my daily magnum opus.

NightFlight
Mar 16, 2007, 09:15 AM
I don't know why so many people want to be able to play iTunes content on other players, when most of them are inferior to the iPod. It just works.

Because the iPod isn't the only player available, and not everyone wants or should have an iPod. Many other players "work", and are a lot cheaper too.

I own an iPod myself, and love it but you can't push it on everyone. Before my iPod I had a Zen Micro Photo 8GB and I liked it just as much (if not more) than my current iPod.

Meglena Kuneva, kiss my ass.

hahahahha

Maccus Aurelius
Mar 16, 2007, 12:12 PM
And there goes Sony, snickering in the background while they have their Connect store. How many non-Sony players does Sonicstage support again?

babyj
Mar 19, 2007, 08:42 PM
This is probably the very reason they didn't pursue legal action against Apple. If they had they would have been obligated to treat Microsoft the same way. I think governments don't want to admit that Microsoft has grown too large to control. The debacle of the U.S. antitrust trial and the E.U. continuously faltering hold Microsoft to the terms of their antitrust trail shows this. Any place they have been found guilty the sentence/reparations are so low its not even a punishment. Microsoft needs to be broken up AT&T-style, but no one has the guts to do it because they're afraid of the effect it would have on the economy.

Seems to be a lot of people passing comment and judgement on the EU without really knowing what they are talking about - the above being a good example. The EU isn't in the slightest bit worried by a company the size of Microsoft.

The EU fined Microsoft $613 Million in 2004 and $357 Million in 2006. They are now threatening them with daily fines of $4 Million back dated to July 2006 and an additional fine of $100 Million for the first six months of 2006. OK, its not a massive amount of money for Microsoft but it is still a pretty big sum.

Others seem to think its just Apple being picked on, when in reality the DRM / MP3 subject is just one of a number of issues raised by the EU on a regular basis. At the moment its the mobile phone companies that are being hit, they've been told to reduce roaming call charges or the EU will enforce reductions. They've also been given a few months to come up with a standard for tv on mobiles or the EU will do it for them.

They also picked on Bananas a few years ago, with a directive stating how straight / bent they should be. And no, that isn't a joke.

The removal of DRM would be good for most people, especially consumers. By raising the question the EU have got the music industry and everyone else talking about it. Maybe one day the EU will force them to remove DRM but that won't happen soon and most likely is the music industry sorting it out themselves first.

SeaFox
Mar 19, 2007, 09:08 PM
The EU fined Microsoft $613 Million in 2004 and $357 Million in 2006. They are now threatening them with daily fines of $4 Million back dated to July 2006 and an additional fine of $100 Million for the first six months of 2006. OK, its not a massive amount of money for Microsoft but it is still a pretty big sum.

I have been hearing about this threat of daily fines and backdating to last July for quite a while now. When the EU sets a deadline for Microsoft to comply, it invariably gets pushed back. Even when Microsoft gets an extension and fails to meet it, they are given another extension.

The result is the same: Microsoft still manages to escape without actually having to pay anything. Meanwhile competitors continue to fall behind due to lack of the documentation Microsoft was supposed to be delivering to avoid the fines.