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pretentious
Jun 9, 2003, 06:31 AM
Moto may be looking to get rid of their entire PowerPC line...if the price is right.

From the Register (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/31093.html)

Right now, it's not a problem. While word on the street is that Motorola has a 'for sale' sign up in the chip division's window, according to Silicon Strategies, as yet no one has been tempted.

Motorola management said a few years back that if the company's Semiconductor Products Sector (SPS) failed to improve its financial position, it would be put up for sale. It now seems that in recent times that point has been reached, and the unit will be sold if a buyer can be found. Silicon Strategies points to STMicroelectronics, which in past months has expressed an interest - though it also points out the both companies have denied being in talks.

cb911
Jun 9, 2003, 07:01 AM
so if Moto sold it... that means that whoever bought it would have the rights to produce G3 & G4 chips? hhmmm... would Apple do something like that? they'd have to put massive $ into R & D to bring out a new chip. this will be interesting though.

kristianm
Jun 9, 2003, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by cb911
so if Moto sold it... that means that whoever bought it would have the rights to produce G3 & G4 chips? hhmmm... would Apple do something like that? they'd have to put massive $ into R & D to bring out a new chip. this will be interesting though.

The problem is with noone being tempted. You should think that AMD or someone would think this is an opportunity. There must be a way to let research cross over. This also validates the IBM rumors, without competition this is a potential goldmine.

hvfsl
Jun 9, 2003, 07:35 AM
At least this means Apple will be switching proccessors at WWDC, but it still remains to be seen whether it is the PPC970. I am still hoping for a AMD64bit Apple machine since it should be cheaper than a PPC970 machine.

Edit: also I remember that there was a clause in the Apple Moto contract about PPC chips saying that if Moto does not manage to produce chips that are fast enough, Apple can buy the chip bit of Moto for $500million.

littlerich
Jun 9, 2003, 07:38 AM
Originally posted by hvfsl
At least this means Apple will be switching proccessors at WWDC, but it still remains to be seen whether it is the PPC970. I am still hoping for a AMD64bit Apple machine since it should be cheaper than a PPC970 machine.

not much chance of that at the moment... unless apple pull something like that out of a hat when its supposed to be a rabit. now that would supprise everyone.

Mr. Anderson
Jun 9, 2003, 07:45 AM
Having an AMD chip in Apple is not going to happen, and it wouldn't be all that cheaper. The CPU is only a small part of the cost of a system. And we've already heard that the 970s are going to be cheaper than the G4s anyway.

I think this is a good thing for Apple. If Moto gets rid of its chip manufacturing then it will give Apple reason to move away from the G4 totally. That won't be a bad thing...:D

D

Longey Nowze
Jun 9, 2003, 07:56 AM
how much is going to cost? do they have to buy the whole thing? can they just buy what they want??

I'm not sure if this sounds good or bad, I hope the who ever buys it is at least as good as moto, and not worse!

thank you
MaT

idesignforlife
Jun 9, 2003, 08:17 AM
Hey if Apple is thinking of buying Roxio (great idea if you ask me), why wouldn't they think of buying this division of Motorola if it's up for sale? Not only is this a way to ensure the quality of the apple processor, but it would also lower the cost of their computers. I know Motorola doesn't have the best reputation right now, but if Apple bought it, repranded it (the new Apple processor!) and hired some well-known people with great reputations for the division, I think it could work.

MetallicPenguin
Jun 9, 2003, 08:38 AM
oh yeah, if Apple bught part of Motorola that makes the processors they'd get them for whatever it costs to make them, not what Motorola was selling them for, and that means cheaper computers, or not....who knows?

andyduncan
Jun 9, 2003, 08:43 AM
as part of the AIM contract, any of the three members has the rights to produce PowerPC chips, including apple. I wonder if they still have any of the Exponential folks on payroll...

pyrotoaster
Jun 9, 2003, 08:48 AM
This just another example of how Moto treats Apple like dirt. The truth is probably that Moto wants to sell the chip division before Apple announces a move the the 970, so they can avoid another massive hit to their stock.

Brother Mugga
Jun 9, 2003, 08:52 AM
I can't see Apple going for this; the cost of chip r&d would just seem prohibitive. That's one of the main reasons why it's sneaking under the vast IBM brolly for cover just now (and also one of the reasons (among many) why Motorolla couldn't keep up with Intel and AMD - they weren't willing to commit resources).

Andyduncan's observation regarding the AIM consortium is germane in this respect. If Apple have been able to produce their own chips all along, why haven't they pulled themselves out of the hole that Motorolla have dug for them?

See above for the answer, I would suggest.

Now if *IBM* were to hoover up Motorolla...that*would* make sense - for all kinds of reasons.

Brother Mugga

Brother Mugga
Jun 9, 2003, 08:59 AM
PS:

Additionally...

Now, call me an olde cynic, but could there be any connection between the far more 'optimistic' Motorolla chip roadmap announced last week and this touting for a buyer?

Surely not.

So probably best not to get our hopes up about 2GHz, dual core G4s anytime soon, yeah?

If I sound bitter, it's because I am. I've been waiting to 'switch' for over a year...waiting for an Apple machine that's faster than my Athlon (please don't flame - we all need rationalisations to spend money we can't really afford).

I'm on my knees about WWDC, believe me.

Brother Mugga

maradong
Jun 9, 2003, 09:11 AM
Originally posted by cb911
so if Moto sold it... that means that whoever bought it would have the rights to produce G3 & G4 chips? hhmmm... would Apple do something like that? they'd have to put massive $ into R & D to bring out a new chip. this will be interesting though.
g3 is an ibm chip...

AhmedFaisal
Jun 9, 2003, 09:29 AM
Originally posted by hvfsl
At least this means Apple will be switching proccessors at WWDC, but it still remains to be seen whether it is the PPC970. I am still hoping for a AMD64bit Apple machine since it should be cheaper than a PPC970 machine.


:mad: I don't care how cheap that may be, if Apple switches to that crappy x86 architecture that will be the end of me buying Macs. I don't want any of those overheated, ancient junk infested bastard 64Bit chips in my comp! If Apple does that its high time for me to switch to one of those definitely upcoming IBM PPC970 client boxes and use Linux or FreeBSD!
*grumbles*

Ahmed

hvfsl
Jun 9, 2003, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by AhmedFaisal
:mad: I don't care how cheap that may be, if Apple switches to that crappy x86 architecture that will be the end of me buying Macs. I don't want any of those overheated, ancient junk infested bastard 64Bit chips in my comp! If Apple does that its high time for me to switch to one of those definitely upcoming IBM PPC970 client boxes and use Linux or FreeBSD!
*grumbles*

Ahmed

I would prefer PPC970 Macs over AMD/Intel, but the powerpc chip has a history of starting out very fast and then over time not being able to keep up with x86 chips. I just hope we dont see what has happened to the G4 (not increasing in speed much comparred to Intel/AMD) happening to the PPC970.

MacsRgr8
Jun 9, 2003, 09:45 AM
Originally posted by AhmedFaisal
:mad: I don't care how cheap that may be, if Apple switches to that crappy x86 architecture that will be the end of me buying Macs. I don't want any of those overheated, ancient junk infested bastard 64Bit chips in my comp! If Apple does that its high time for me to switch to one of those definitely upcoming IBM PPC970 client boxes and use Linux or FreeBSD!
*grumbles*

Ahmed

What bothers me about the "maybe switch to x86" is all the time/effort/$$$ in developing the PPC, optimizing OS X on it, and using Altivec to enhance the products.
Come on, there is a PPC which IS fast enough, made by capable people, with an SIMD unit......

T'hain Esh Kelch
Jun 9, 2003, 10:11 AM
If I were Apple, (And I am, stockholder! ;)), I'd buy the Altivec part...

wdlove
Jun 9, 2003, 10:31 AM
Originally posted by Mr. Anderson
Having an AMD chip in Apple is not going to happen, and it wouldn't be all that cheaper. The CPU is only a small part of the cost of a system. And we've already heard that the 970s are going to be cheaper than the G4s anyway.

I think this is a good thing for Apple. If Moto gets rid of its chip manufacturing then it will give Apple reason to move away from the G4 totally. That won't be a bad thing...:D

D

I agree with Mr. Anderson. This is definitely good for Apple. It gives them with ability to pull away from Moto without any hard feelings. Goodbye and good luck!

jouster
Jun 9, 2003, 10:32 AM
Not sure how you could 'buy' the Altivec part. Altivec is just MOT's name for a technology to which all three AIM members already have access, and which IBM is strongly rumored to have added to the 970.

Apple, of course, already has access to the technology, and chooses to call it 'Velocity Engine.'


Edit: never mind 'strongly rumored': IBM has stated that the 970 contains an Altived compatible engine.

Brother Mugga
Jun 9, 2003, 10:32 AM
"If I were Apple, (And I am, stockholder! ), I'd buy the Altivec part"

That's one of the things I was referring to earlier r.e. IBM buying Moto. Even just so that they could use the name, bless 'em...

I don't think Apple would be able to just hive off a bit of intellectual property like that, unfortunately (although similar things have been done before, to be fair). Of course, whether it'd be worth it or not is a moot point.

Oh, I appear to be rambling. How about I just go back to work, yeah...?


Brother Mugga

3.1416
Jun 9, 2003, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by hvfsl
the powerpc chip has a history of starting out very fast and then over time not being able to keep up with x86 chips.

Not really. From the initial PPC 601 to the G3, PowerPCs have been equal or superior to x86 in performance. It's only with Motorola's repeated fumbles with the G4 that we've had problems. I have much more confidence in IBM.

IJ Reilly
Jun 9, 2003, 10:49 AM
It looks Moto is dead and all but buried, as far as Apple is concerned. Apple is about to take a flying leap into the (IBM) ferry, even as it pulls away from the dock. Let's hope they've got a good running start.

Sometimes being an Mac user is just too #$*% exciting.

mymemory
Jun 9, 2003, 12:21 PM
Originally posted by T'hain Esh Kelch
If I were Apple, (And I am, stockholder! ;)), I'd buy the Altivec part...

It is already part of the 970 and it will perform better.

read this IBM 970 chip. (http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2002/10/16/ibm/)

JoeRadar
Jun 9, 2003, 01:11 PM
Originally posted by hvfsl
I am still hoping for a AMD64bit Apple machine since it should be cheaper than a PPC970 machine.

I don't know what the price difference is between various chips, but I don't think that would make a significant difference in the price of the final computer product.

I am a fan of the Mac on X86 concept for two reasons. First, a Mac computer that can also run Windows native will make "switching" a more appealing process for current PC owners (and businesses, and purchasing departments). Second, there is a safety factor knowing that you will not be slower than the main competitors (remember the 68040, and now the G4).

However, at this point I want to see the attention focused on the 970s. Let the G4 die. Lets rock roll with IBM!

andyduncan
Jun 9, 2003, 02:28 PM
Originally posted by maradong
g3 is an ibm chip...

Is, but not was. Mot and IBM were both suppliers of the original 750 that went into the beige G3s.

IJ Reilly
Jun 9, 2003, 03:38 PM
"Sources said Apple's goal for Smeagol is to deliver Mac OS X performance at least "on par" with what Jaguar could achieve on Motorola G4 chips running at the same speed..."

Pancake
Jun 9, 2003, 05:22 PM
I officially offer Moto my entire savings account for what they are selling. Coupled to my piggy bank, it comes to about $14.35. The ball is your court Moto.

wdlove
Jun 9, 2003, 05:31 PM
Originally posted by andyduncan
Is, but not was. Mot and IBM were both suppliers of the original 750 that went into the beige G3s.

Well I learned something new today. Wonder why Apple didn't stay with IBM?

avus
Jun 9, 2003, 05:41 PM
Originally posted by Pancake
I officially offer Moto my entire savings account for what they are selling. Coupled to my piggy bank, it comes to about $14.35. The ball is your court Moto.

Nah, you are overpaying - I mean, I feel that Motorola needs to pay you or someone in order to get rid off its ancient facilities and underdeveloped chip architectures. No wonder there isn't anyone willing to pay even a penny for them.

Pancake
Jun 9, 2003, 06:34 PM
Originally posted by avus
Nah, you are overpaying - I mean, I feel that Motorola needs to pay you or someone in order to get rid off its ancient facilities and underdeveloped chip architectures. No wonder there isn't anyone willing to pay even a penny for them.

You are forgetting that the $14.35 price point would require Moto to stop thier factories from produces computer chips, and start them producing chips of the chocolate variety, with the mandatory hypernougat dual fugde core.

Dont Hurt Me
Jun 9, 2003, 07:10 PM
If i was moto i would be unloading all my old g4's to Sonnet,Powerlogix,Giga,Mercury Extreme. Give that upgrade market all of it cheap. They have been overcharging for g4's for too too long. Now with that said I see a Ibm chip in my future.

tazznb
Jun 9, 2003, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by maradong
g3 is an ibm chip...


BUT the name "G" naming convention belongs to Apple:)

macdong
Jun 9, 2003, 11:44 PM
Originally posted by hvfsl
I would prefer PPC970 Macs over AMD/Intel, but the powerpc chip has a history of starting out very fast and then over time not being able to keep up with x86 chips. I just hope we dont see what has happened to the G4 (not increasing in speed much comparred to Intel/AMD) happening to the PPC970.

That's the history of Motorola, not PowerPC chip :p