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MacRumors
Mar 22, 2007, 04:21 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

TechRestore.com (http://www.techrestore.com/2007/03/apple-tv-dissection.shtml) dissected an Apple TV. Unfortunately, the site is under heavy load at the moment.

A mirror of the images (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b343/briantr/Apple%20TV/) has been posted to Photobucket.

The photos show closeups of the Intel processor (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b343/briantr/Apple%20TV/?action=view&current=Apple_TV_6.jpg), NVidia GPU (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b343/briantr/Apple%20TV/?action=view&current=Apple_TV_5.jpg) and wireless card (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b343/briantr/Apple%20TV/?action=view&current=Apple_TV_2.jpg).

A few more details are provided by Macworld (http://www.macworld.com/weblogs/editors/2007/03/appletvbriefing/index.php) after they received a debriefing of the product.



Grimace
Mar 22, 2007, 04:23 PM
maybe we can unlock the 1080p! :rolleyes:

bmcgrath
Mar 22, 2007, 04:25 PM
That was quick! :eek:

Leoff
Mar 22, 2007, 04:25 PM
Yes, it is cool. Yes, I wouldn't mind having one. And yes, I have been sucked into all the posts so far.

But I mean come ON. "Apple TV Taken Apart." "Apple TV Instructions" "Apple TV Unboxing."

What comes next? "Apple TV is plugged in." "Apple TV placement on or near a TV set." "Apple TV used as a coaster." "Apple TV may open gateways to alternate dimensions."

Superdrive
Mar 22, 2007, 04:25 PM
Easier to open than the Mini! Let's see that come into the next iteration of the Mini. Also, that HD looks like it'll be a snap to replace.

iMikeT
Mar 22, 2007, 04:26 PM
Seeing the insides makes me wonder what Apple has planned for this product in the future.

aricher
Mar 22, 2007, 04:26 PM
Maybe they can unlock the secret of the USB port.

arn
Mar 22, 2007, 04:27 PM
Yes, it is cool. Yes, I wouldn't mind having one. And yes, I have been sucked into all the posts so far.

But I mean come ON. "Apple TV Taken Apart." "Apple TV Instructions" "Apple TV Unboxing."

Just wait until iPhone day... :) That will be a crazy day.

arn

lexus
Mar 22, 2007, 04:28 PM
Cool, is it recommendable to remove the rubber?

iMikeT
Mar 22, 2007, 04:31 PM
Now that I think about it, this is the first time I have ever seen a large number of people excited about the dismantling of a product meant to be used in the living room.

hanschien
Mar 22, 2007, 04:37 PM
Oh come on! This is smaller than a mini yet it gets nVidia graphics???

Poff
Mar 22, 2007, 04:37 PM
Also, that HD looks like it'll be a snap to replace.

I certainly wouldn't mind putting a 160GB HDD in there... :)

Konradx
Mar 22, 2007, 04:39 PM
Are there photo's of them putting it back into the box and gettin a refund?

studiomusic
Mar 22, 2007, 04:39 PM
Cool, is it recommendable to remove the rubber?

NEVER!

shawnce
Mar 22, 2007, 04:40 PM
bah... they didn't take enough pictures of the chips on the mother board... cannot tell what it is using....

It does appear to be using an nvidia GeForce Go 7300 (http://www.nvidia.com/page/go_7300.html) but cannot id the CPU, etc.

ppnkg
Mar 22, 2007, 04:44 PM
Yes, it is cool. Yes, I wouldn't mind having one. And yes, I have been sucked into all the posts so far.

But I mean come ON. "Apple TV Taken Apart." "Apple TV Instructions" "Apple TV Unboxing."

What comes next? "Apple TV is plugged in." "Apple TV placement on or near a TV set." "Apple TV used as a coaster." "Apple TV may open gateways to alternate dimensions."

This is because apple is dead silent on all other fronts hardwarewise. What a shame...

I'm not getting appletv. I can't see the use of it for the moment, really.

penter
Mar 22, 2007, 04:46 PM
Just wait until iPhone day... :) That will be a crazy day.

arn


OH MY GOD YES!!! LMAO

nitynate
Mar 22, 2007, 04:46 PM
Nice amount of thermal grease.

Nice one, apple. :rolleyes:

scrambledwonder
Mar 22, 2007, 04:48 PM
Excellent! If you can't take it apart, you don't own it!

Now what will they do with it? Hack a DVD player into it? An XBox? Sew its guts into a teddy bear?

MightyB
Mar 22, 2007, 04:50 PM
Just wait until iPhone day... :) That will be a crazy day.

arn

Yeah...there will definitely be a few heads exploding that day!

sandau
Mar 22, 2007, 04:58 PM
Sew its guts into a teddy bear?

that reminds me of that spoof of where they installed linux on a dead badger. :p

http://everything2.com/index.pl?node_id=1515486

alec
Mar 22, 2007, 04:59 PM
Can the next MacRumors article be titled "AppleTV Successfully Streams Perv's Beastiality Collection"?

Abstract
Mar 22, 2007, 04:59 PM
This thing has a better graphics card than a MacBook.


Deeeeepressing.

bommai
Mar 22, 2007, 05:02 PM
One of the advantages of SATA is small cable size. Apple used PATA because it fit, is cheaper and was not blocking any fans!

You may not be able to upgrade the HD unless you can make it bootable. I bet some of the OS is in the HD. I wonder what happens if somehow the HD is corrupted. Does that mean, the whole device is toast?

spaceballl
Mar 22, 2007, 05:03 PM
Looks like the HD will be easy to swap!

:D :D :D

dr_lha
Mar 22, 2007, 05:09 PM
This thing has a better graphics card than a MacBook.


Deeeeepressing.
I was just thinking the same thing. I assume this is because the AppleTV's CPU is not a powerhouse, like the MacBooks C2D, so needs all the help it can get decoding video. Still, seems a shame that Apple can stick a dedicated chip in this thing but not the MacBook/mini.

timmillwood
Mar 22, 2007, 05:09 PM
One of the advantages of SATA is small cable size. Apple used PATA because it fit, is cheaper and was not blocking any fans!

You may not be able to upgrade the HD unless you can make it bootable. I bet some of the OS is in the HD. I wonder what happens if somehow the HD is corrupted. Does that mean, the whole device is toast?

it won't be long until someone plugs the drive upto a USB port to see what is on it, and if it is the OS it could be transferred.

Yvan256
Mar 22, 2007, 05:09 PM
[...] What comes next? [...] "Apple TV may open gateways to alternate dimensions."

Woah, cool! They finally made a device powered by Steve's RDF! :D

CoreWeb
Mar 22, 2007, 05:15 PM
I was just thinking the same thing. I assume this is because the AppleTV's CPU is not a powerhouse, like the MacBooks C2D, so needs all the help it can get decoding video. Still, seems a shame that Apple can stick a dedicated chip in this thing but not the MacBook/mini.

Well, if they raised the chip on the MacBook, the MacBook would have a shorter battery life. As for the Mini... are those even Core 2 Duos yet? (No - I just checked). It looks like they're due for an update...

Leondunkleyc
Mar 22, 2007, 05:15 PM
.

anubis72
Mar 22, 2007, 05:15 PM
I certainly wouldn't mind putting a 160GB HDD in there... :)

160GB??? Hell, I'd throw a 500GB drive in there...Unless that's not a 3.5".

That would be the only reason I would get one.

You may not be able to upgrade the HD unless you can make it bootable. I bet some of the OS is in the HD. I wonder what happens if somehow the HD is corrupted. Does that mean, the whole device is toast?

Can't you just do a drive-to-drive copy when you swap???

I would assume that the :apple:TV got a dedicated video card because it's sole purpose is for video, correct? Makes sense to me...

j26
Mar 22, 2007, 05:16 PM
I certainly wouldn't mind putting a 160GB HDD in there... :)

If it could I might get one*








*if Apple get off their backsides and provide movies in Europe

twoodcc
Mar 22, 2007, 05:20 PM
That was quick! :eek:

yeah, that was quick. anyway, i'm not surprised by all the hype about this product. glad to see it :apple:

Cult Follower
Mar 22, 2007, 05:36 PM
I love these kind of pictures.:)

Modrak
Mar 22, 2007, 05:42 PM
someone should really really pull the harddrive out, put it into iPod (the only 1.8" PATA HDD case I can think of at the moment :D ), dump it and put the image online...and try to boot it by the way on regular mac:)

or try it the other way, install OS X onto it and see if Apple TV will explode :)

Cybix
Mar 22, 2007, 05:48 PM
there is no way the OS is on the hdd, or any part of it. it's all flash/chip based for sure :)

Peace
Mar 22, 2007, 05:58 PM
Looking at that device, It seems to me just radiating potential. Give or take a year of updates, I think the :apple:TV will fit most people's living room needs perfectly.

I don't know much about Nvidia, but I don't think they do many small, low power GPUs designed purely for streaming & HD, I think there may be some truth to the game rumours, maybe psp or higher quality.

The HDD looks easily replacable, but we don't know if the software supports a larger disk, not much point buying a 2TB disk and finding you can only use 40GB of it.

I'd be willing to bet that hard drive is using the ZFS filesystem.

ajonessn
Mar 22, 2007, 06:01 PM
160GB??? Hell, I'd throw a 500GB drive in there...Unless that's not a 3.5".

That would be the only reason I would get one.



Can't you just do a drive-to-drive copy when you swap???

I would assume that the :apple:TV got a dedicated video card because it's sole purpose is for video, correct? Makes sense to me...

It's not a 3.5" HDD. It's only a 2.5" HDD. You can see that in this photo (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b343/briantr/Apple%20TV/?action=view&current=Apple_TV_1a.jpg). I would suspect that simply taking out the drive, and hooking it up to an external firewire PATA would allow you to clone the disc to a larger drive, thus allowing you to upgrade the storage.

surferfromuk
Mar 22, 2007, 06:29 PM
...not entirely different from the game of pong I dissected in 1979...

Can anyone show me how well it upscales a low res 320x240 youtube movie rip to a big screen yet!!... ??

chairguru22
Mar 22, 2007, 06:41 PM
look at all the thermal goop on the gpu!!!11!!1! i bet it moos too.

dr_lha
Mar 22, 2007, 06:46 PM
there is no way the OS is on the hdd, or any part of it. it's all flash/chip based for sure :)
I'm willing to bet money that you are wrong. Adding a flash based OS would increase the cost of this thing. Why would they do that when it has a 40Gb HD. Its obviously running some sort of cut down OS X, perhaps the same embedded version thats destined for the iPhone.

Its going to be interesting to see what happens when someone plugs the HD of this thing into another machine and starts poking around.

RustyM
Mar 22, 2007, 06:49 PM
Is that a 2.5" or a 1.8" HDD inside?

EagerDragon
Mar 22, 2007, 06:49 PM
Oh come on! This is smaller than a mini yet it gets nVidia graphics???

Not only smaller, but also cheaper

EagerDragon
Mar 22, 2007, 06:53 PM
Yeah...there will definitely be a few heads exploding that day!

I may call in sick that day (iPhone released) to go stand in line to get mine.

petej
Mar 22, 2007, 06:55 PM
Waiting now for the first person to get linux installed on the Apple TV. I sense a whole new life beckons for these little boxes. VLC, DIVX, usable USB port, games.
Would love to play with one myself but I do not have a suitable TV. I am still stuck in that bygone era of Cathode Ray Tubes.

Konradx
Mar 22, 2007, 07:00 PM
Wonder if you can format that hdd (If th OS is on it) and install a normal version of OSX...then you could stream EVERYTHING:D

SPUY767
Mar 22, 2007, 07:03 PM
Wonder if you can format that hdd (If th OS is on it) and install a normal version of OSX...then you could stream EVERYTHING:D

And melt the CPU in the process. It runs a slim version of the OS for a reason, the CPU can't handle the full thing. Probably has too little ram as well.

steve_hill4
Mar 22, 2007, 07:11 PM
Responding to earlier comments, I too am finding this a little disturbing. However, I do agree with some quarters comparing this thing to the iPod. Not the first of it's class, easy to use and has the potential to revolutionise the market. I can't wait for the iPhone launch day either and Leopard for similar buzz.

I would still like to see Apple open this platform up a little more though. Perhaps adding a simple web browser and allowing a keyboard, (Apple BT perhaps with trackpad attached to side instead of numerical pad), to connect would make this a great box to stick under your TV. After all, media content and web browsing is all most want to do computer-wise with their TV. PVR capabilities would be great too, but I still say that's less likely.

dornoforpyros
Mar 22, 2007, 07:18 PM
Yes, it is cool. Yes, I wouldn't mind having one. And yes, I have been sucked into all the posts so far.

But I mean come ON. "Apple TV Taken Apart." "Apple TV Instructions" "Apple TV Unboxing."

What comes next? "Apple TV is plugged in." "Apple TV placement on or near a TV set." "Apple TV used as a coaster." "Apple TV may open gateways to alternate dimensions."

:apple: TV taken to the genius bar! ;)

Hattig
Mar 22, 2007, 07:24 PM
Very clean design.

I bet the second revision of this will be killer. In the meantime it could make a great Linux system - someone is guaranteed to hack it - for those of us who use divx which this device doesn't support.

At least it has the 40GB cache (30GB usable?) which makes it more usable than, for example, ORB (http://www.orb.com/en/orb_networks_trumps_apple_on_day_one_with_free_pc_to_tv_service_for_17_million_households) and other similar systems - because I don't keep my computers on all day using power. OTOH I have a Wii and I don't have a HDTV, so AppleTV is useless to me and ORB could actually work! Of course the interface will never be as refined as anything Apple can create.

Right now I'd most want to gain access to my ripped music collection. A Squeezebox is looking better for that still - decent DACs, built-in display, etc. In five years time though everything will be about video and media on your home system, and devices like AppleTV will be a massive market, so Apple are sensible to get a foot in the door early.

sonictonic
Mar 22, 2007, 08:10 PM
Yes, it is cool. Yes, I wouldn't mind having one. And yes, I have been sucked into all the posts so far.

But I mean come ON. "Apple TV Taken Apart." "Apple TV Instructions" "Apple TV Unboxing."

What comes next? "Apple TV is plugged in." "Apple TV placement on or near a TV set." "Apple TV used as a coaster." "Apple TV may open gateways to alternate dimensions."


LOL... Agreed!

I love the Apple TV and want one really bad, but I have to wait until I have the extra $300 :p Nonetheless, all these topics do seem a bit much to me too... So you're not alone, heh. :)

pip11
Mar 22, 2007, 08:15 PM
I find it bizarre that the Apple TV is using a Broadcom-sourced wi-fi card. Up until now, the Intel Macs have all used Atheros chipsets (both the original G and pre-N). The original PPC Airport Extreme cards were from Broadcom though.
Especially for draft-spec equipment like this, compatibility is best with the same chipset in every device. Does anyone know what the new pre-N AirPort Extreme base station has in it?

Peace
Mar 22, 2007, 08:17 PM
I find it bizarre that the Apple TV is using a Broadcom-sourced wi-fi card. Up until now, the Intel Macs have all used Atheros chipsets (both the original G and pre-N). The original PPC Airport Extreme cards were from Broadcom though.
Especially for draft-spec equipment like this, compatibility is best with the same chipset in every device. Does anyone know what the new pre-N AirPort Extreme base station has in it?


The iMac C2D uses the Broadcom chipset.

Yvan256
Mar 22, 2007, 08:32 PM
I bet the second revision of this will be killer. In the meantime it could make a great Linux system - someone is guaranteed to hack it - for those of us who use divx which this device doesn't support.

Actually, I'm wondering why everyone keeps mentionning DivX and XviD. Those are simply MPEG-4 + MP3 inside an AVI container, and in a lot of cases the MP3 is VBR and that breaks the AVI specs.

Why not do the right thing and (finally) drop DivX/XviD and switch to MPEG-4/AAC (.mp4). Or even better, switch to H.264/AAC (.mp4 again)

Hattig
Mar 22, 2007, 08:44 PM
AnandTech's dissection is probably the most comprehensive we will ever get.

http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2951

Peace
Mar 22, 2007, 09:13 PM
AnandTech's dissection is probably the most comprehensive we will ever get.

http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2951

If the :apple: TV doesn't do 5.1 it soon will..

Realtek ALC885 Codec Chip :

http://www.realtek.com.tw/products/productsView.aspx?Langid=1&PFid=28&Level=5&Conn=4&ProdID=138


From the quoted article via Realtek's website ..

musicpenguy
Mar 22, 2007, 09:15 PM
The reason people are fanatic about AVI containers is the fact that it uses AC3 audio (retaining the ORIGINAL audio in full glorious surround sound as it was intended) This is the sole reason I use AVI containers, instead of MP4s I really wish MP4s could use AC3s so I coulds actually use the Apple TV

peestandingup
Mar 22, 2007, 09:20 PM
The iMac C2D uses the Broadcom chipset.

Isnt the Mac Pro's card the same as the AppleTVs 2-pronged connection?? I think the MacBook/MBP's have a 3-pronged connection (for the 3 antennas).

Peace
Mar 22, 2007, 09:22 PM
Isnt the Mac Pro's card the same as the AppleTVs 2-pronged connection?? I think the MacBook/MBP's have a 3-pronged connection (for the 3 antennas).


Macbooks and MBP ( C2D ) use the Atheros wireless.

Konradx
Mar 22, 2007, 09:41 PM
And melt the CPU in the process. It runs a slim version of the OS for a reason, the CPU can't handle the full thing. Probably has too little ram as well.

I've seen G3's with OSX..not a pretty site..but you never know till you try

notjustjay
Mar 22, 2007, 10:13 PM
Nonetheless, all these topics do seem a bit much to me too... So you're not alone, heh. :)

Ok, I propose we appease you folks by not talking about the Apple TV.

So tomorrow's feature story can be "Nope, no new MacBooks announced yet". Followed by "Nope, no new iMacs yet." Followed by "Apple Stores report no stock issues on any iPod models". "Wall Street Journal didn't write any articles about Mac products today". "Nothing new in Software Updates today". "No new iTunes version released yet."

Apple TV's in the news because it's news.

eric_n_dfw
Mar 22, 2007, 10:34 PM
AnandTech's dissection is probably the most comprehensive we will ever get.

http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2951

Interesting - they think it's a custom version of the "Dothan" Pentium-M CPU's, proabably at 1GHz.

aafuss1
Mar 22, 2007, 10:43 PM
Engadget also has some photos of the AppleTV internals:
http://www.engadget.com/photos/apple-tv-dissected/

pilotError
Mar 22, 2007, 10:49 PM
Isnt the Mac Pro's card the same as the AppleTVs 2-pronged connection?? I think the MacBook/MBP's have a 3-pronged connection (for the 3 antennas).

Looks to be the same card. This is what everyone has been upgrading their core duo machines to.

Diode
Mar 22, 2007, 10:52 PM
If the :apple: TV doesn't do 5.1 it soon will..

Realtek ALC885 Codec Chip :

http://www.realtek.com.tw/products/productsView.aspx?Langid=1&PFid=28&Level=5&Conn=4&ProdID=138


From the quoted article via Realtek's website ..

People are already getting 5.1 output on handbreak's forum. Its a developer release so you need to svn and compile the code. They are using a 6 channel AAC audio format.

Daveway
Mar 22, 2007, 10:52 PM
I wish there were more pictures of this bizarre cooling system Apple is using...

Has anyone figured out how they are doing it from the pics provided?

imacdaddy
Mar 22, 2007, 10:58 PM
Just wait until iPhone day... :) That will be a crazy day.

arn

Yes, and there will be a thread called "Apple iPhone Taken Apart". :p

SiliconAddict
Mar 22, 2007, 11:45 PM
Hmmmm $300...seems more then a little high considering the design being a pretty vanilla setup. And please don't throw out R&D. Forget a killing. Apple must be making a genocide on each system.

SiliconAddict
Mar 22, 2007, 11:53 PM
I wish there were more pictures of this bizarre cooling system Apple is using...

Has anyone figured out how they are doing it from the pics provided?

What cooling is needed? Seriously. The only reason a fan is even needed it to get the heat out of the box. The specs leaked say what is in the thing is a 1ghz Pentium M (Not even core.) CPU with an underclocked FSB. The GPU is a Nvidia G72M which is a so so GPU EDIT: Its a Go 7300...a laptop vcard. Definitely will run cool.
All in all it should be a pretty cool running system.

Interesting - they think it's a custom version of the "Dothan" Pentium-M CPU's, proabably at 1GHz.

That's what the rumor mills have been saying since Jan.

SiliconAddict
Mar 23, 2007, 12:04 AM
OK now I'm waiting for someone to clone the drive and use one of these...



On the :apple: TV :D

The real question is has Apple neutered the capacity that the system can see. If not...slap a 500GB HD in a home brewed cage under the :apple: TV, cut out a slit in the back bottom side of system and call it a day. :D

Lollypop
Mar 23, 2007, 12:44 AM
Actually, I'm wondering why everyone keeps mentioning DivX and XviD. Those are simply MPEG-4 + MP3 inside an AVI container, and in a lot of cases the MP3 is VBR and that breaks the AVI specs.

Why not do the right thing and (finally) drop DivX/XviD and switch to MPEG-4/AAC (.mp4). Or even better, switch to H.264/AAC (.mp4 again)

Container issues aside (dont really know much about it) a lot of people use to use DivX because it was the smallest format at the time, a few years ago when I still used PC's (yes Im ashamed of those days) DivX was the best way to encode my DVD's.. sure now I can do everything in h.264 but what am I suppose to do with my old library? Re-encode all my DVD's? :eek:

Personally everyone says is so easy to open.. but all those screws... I know how i will work.. definately a screw loose after I get into a :apple: TV :D

peestandingup
Mar 23, 2007, 01:01 AM
Looks to be the same card. This is what everyone has been upgrading their core duo machines to.

Yup, that everyone includes me. :) Been burning up the wireless N in my MB Core Duo for weeks now.

I've seen G3's with OSX..not a pretty site..but you never know till you try

Uhh, most G3 Macs can run Tiger just fine, chief. The only requirments are a G3 with firewire & 256MB of RAM.

tveric
Mar 23, 2007, 01:33 AM
Does anyone know, FOR SURE, if the Apple TV will play x264 files?

Yes, I've read the tech specs. Yes, I know it plays h264 and protected h264. If that's all you've got, please move on to the next topic.

For anyone who can actually answer this question with a real response, I thank you.

matticus008
Mar 23, 2007, 04:16 AM
I'm willing to bet money that you are wrong. Adding a flash based OS would increase the cost of this thing. Why would they do that when it has a 40Gb HD. Its obviously running some sort of cut down OS X, perhaps the same embedded version thats destined for the iPhone.

Its going to be interesting to see what happens when someone plugs the HD of this thing into another machine and starts poking around.
Increase cost? The OS is certainly less than 1gb (and probably less than 256MB). The cost for that amount of flash is trivial. $3 or $4 later, they've got a system that will run even with a dead hard drive (and be able to tell you that the drive is dead), not to mention the obvious benefits of running an embedded OS from a controlled environment isolated from casual prying eyes.

It probably is running a variant of the iPhone OS X--which is all the more reason to conclude it's stuffed into a flash chip. No smartphone-class device runs an OS bigger than 64MB or so.

dernhelm
Mar 23, 2007, 05:10 AM
I'd be willing to bet that hard drive is using the ZFS filesystem.

Last I heard, ZFS could not be used to boot OS/X. Can someone correct me?

surferfromuk
Mar 23, 2007, 07:30 AM
Hmmmm $300...seems more then a little high considering the design being a pretty vanilla setup. And please don't throw out R&D. Forget a killing. Apple must be making a genocide on each system.

Don't get me wrong I'd prefer it to be half the price but it's close to comparable in price to the D-Link HD streamer ( at least in the UK) and by all accounts that sucks the big one in a whole load of ways and I believe has no Hard Drive in it.......I don't think Apple have 'overloaded' the price..$100 lower would be very nice and it'll probably come in 6 months time...

but let's get down to the nitty gritty here - if you have a mac and an LCD TV and you actually understand what the product achieves your going to want one of these, and unless your hard up there is no compellingly good reason not to buy one is there ?

I'ts a sweet little product that does exactly what it say's on the tin.

andrewag
Mar 23, 2007, 07:41 AM
So has anyone plugged the HD into their mac to see what's on it?

Casshan
Mar 23, 2007, 08:20 AM
People are already getting 5.1 output on handbreak's forum. Its a developer release so you need to svn and compile the code. They are using a 6 channel AAC audio format.

Here and you got me all excited. I checked the handbrake forums (http://handbrake.m0k.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=692), and while the AppleTV can play back AAC 5.1 encoded audio, it just sends it to the receiver as matrix stereo. It doesn't actually play back in discrete 5.1.

Manic Mouse
Mar 23, 2007, 08:34 AM
So why can't Apple stick a 7300 in the Macbook? Certainly price, heat and power consumption aren't an issue. What's their excuse?

pilotError
Mar 23, 2007, 08:55 AM
From the FAQ, nVidia states that the video processors are programmable, will we see 1080p in a future update?

From the nVidia FAQ site:


Q: What is in the video processor?
We’ve taken PureVideo to the next level by adding support for some new algorithms with GeForce Go 7-series. With those new algorithms, we now support de-interlacing with HD resolutions up to 1080i. In addition, we’ve added support for inverse 2:2 pull-down. The video processors are programmable, so as new video formats come out we will be able to support them through driver updates. In addition, GeForce Go 7300 supports WMV HD decode acceleration that can offload video decoding from the CPU onto the GPU, reducing CPU utilization by about 40 percent.

http://www.nvidia.com/page/go_7300_faq.html

They also claim hardware support for the other formats from their PureVideo marketing page:


Bringing the High-Definition Home Theater Experience to Your PC

Today’s consumers demand a high-definition (HD) home theater experience on their PC. They want superb picture clarity, stutter-free playback and multiple display connectivity options. The best way to achieve this is with NVIDIA® PureVideo™ technology.

Watch videos on your desktop PC, notebook PC, or HDTV without the annoying artifacts and imperfections of traditional PC-based video solutions. NVIDIA PureVideo technology is the combination of a dedicated video processing core and software that delivers ultra-smooth, high-definition H.264, WMV, and MPEG-2 movies with minimal CPU utilization and low power consumption. And the high-precision subpixel processing enables videos to be scaled to any size, so that even small videos look like they were recorded in high-resolution.


http://www.nvidia.com/page/purevideo.html

bret
Mar 23, 2007, 09:07 AM
Yes, it is cool. Yes, I wouldn't mind having one. And yes, I have been sucked into all the posts so far.

But I mean come ON. "Apple TV Taken Apart." "Apple TV Instructions" "Apple TV Unboxing."

What comes next? "Apple TV is plugged in." "Apple TV placement on or near a TV set." "Apple TV used as a coaster." "Apple TV may open gateways to alternate dimensions."

I couldn't agree more. I found it quite obnoxious that there were this many articles / posts regarding the arrival of the Apple TV in someone's home. Could someone please condense things like this in the future to ONE (1) article / post and just use the update feature. There is no need to spam the site with that much iTV related stuff. Way overboard. I'll probably try to avoid the site as best I can when new products are released if this is the new prescient.

Rocketman
Mar 23, 2007, 09:16 AM
I was just thinking the same thing. I assume this is because the AppleTV's CPU is not a powerhouse, like the MacBooks C2D, so needs all the help it can get decoding video. Still, seems a shame that Apple can stick a dedicated chip in this thing but not the MacBook/mini.

Its about a year newer too.

I wonder what the NEXT MacBook will have?

Rocketman

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 09:23 AM
I certainly wouldn't mind putting a 160GB HDD in there... :)

Please try it and let me know :)

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 09:28 AM
Last I heard, ZFS could not be used to boot OS/X. Can someone correct me?

I suspect ZFS will be an option in Leopard's Disk Utility but not the default.

andyblac
Mar 23, 2007, 09:29 AM
Please try it and let me know :)

i have a 160gb drive on order it should arrive monday as should my Apple TV, i'll let you know how i get on

Rocketman
Mar 23, 2007, 09:30 AM
sure now I can do everything in h.264 but what am I suppose to do with my old library? Re-encode all my DVD's? :eek:


Someone needs to write a script to do it overnight while you are sleeping for a couple of months. It is a common complaint. Also since you ripped them anyway I assume people are somewho sharing them as well?

Rocketman

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 09:31 AM
It's not a 3.5" HDD. It's only a 2.5" HDD. You can see that in this photo (http://s22.photobucket.com/albums/b343/briantr/Apple%20TV/?action=view&current=Apple_TV_1a.jpg). I would suspect that simply taking out the drive, and hooking it up to an external firewire PATA would allow you to clone the disc to a larger drive, thus allowing you to upgrade the storage.

I can imagine the next issue of Mac User or Mac World magazines now ... "How to hack your ApleTV" :)

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 09:35 AM
i have a 160gb drive on order it should arrive monday as should my Apple TV, i'll let you know how i get on

That's very brave of you ... thanks. I guess worst case you can just put the original back. Are you going to clone the original? I just hope as someone suggested it isn't ZFS being used ahead of Leopard in which case you might hit a problem. Good luck ... and fingers crossed. I need at least 160 GB for my full library.

moldymac
Mar 23, 2007, 09:39 AM
I hooked the hard drive from my apple tv to my macbook through a usb adapter, and it does infact have a cut down version of os x. The interesting part is my macbook tried to boot off the drive, it got as far as the apple logo the mactv gives you on boot up and then froze. The hdd is broken up into 3 partitions, one 400mb unknown partition, 1 900mb called "OSBoot" that as the name says, has the os on it. and the remaining space of the drive is called "Media" and has the music, videos, etc on it. Using Disk Copy I was able to copy OSBoot and Media to a 100gb laptop drive. I was not able to copy the 400mb unkown partition over. The apple TV DID BOOT with the 100gb drive and worked, but if you reset the device it wont boot again. I have a feeling there is something in that 400mb partition that is somewhat important. If I reimage the OSBoot it would work again. In iTunes the appletv shows as having roughly 90gb of available space when emtpy.
A hard drive upgrade is possible, but I need to copy that 400mb partition for it to work right.

andyblac
Mar 23, 2007, 09:45 AM
That's very brave of you ... thanks. I guess worst case you can just put the original back. Are you going to clone the original? I just hope as someone suggested it isn't ZFS being used ahead of Leopard in which case you might hit a problem. Good luck ... and fingers crossed. I need at least 160 GB for my full library.

yup, that's my plan, going to use Apple's Disk Utility app to create a disk image. as i'm hoping, as people are stating that it has a mini osx on the HD, should then be-able to use scan for restore to get the disk image ready to restore it to the new drive. that's my idea anyway.

my backup plan is, i read somewhere that a guy had a problem with his AppleTV booting up, he was told by an apple engineer that the HD has 2 partitions on it, 1 for the main drive, the other has a disk image use for a HD recover. the AppleTV try to boot 5 times, if that fails it tries to restore from the disk image. so if my cloned HD does not boot then i'm hoping the AppleTV will just reload the boot partition with the available image.

andyblac
Mar 23, 2007, 09:49 AM
A hard drive upgrade is possible, but I need to copy that 400mb partition for it to work right.

did you try to use apple disk utility on the Drive it's self not the partitions ?

would it not copy ALL 3 partitions then ?

moldymac
Mar 23, 2007, 09:51 AM
I am thinking the 400mb partition that disk copy wouldnt touch was the restore partition, after copying the 2 partitions and trying to revert to factory defaults, it would just refresh the menu when the option was selected.

moldymac
Mar 23, 2007, 09:52 AM
I did try disk utility on the drive itself. It did make an image of the whole drive but disk utility could not restore from the image.

andyblac
Mar 23, 2007, 09:54 AM
I did try disk utility on the drive itself. It did make an image of the whole drive but disk utility could not restore from the image.

did you do the "Scan for Restore" in the menus on the image ?

andyblac
Mar 23, 2007, 09:55 AM
1 900mb called "OSBoot" that as the name says, has the os on it.

could you look in the SYSTEM/LIBRARY and see if there is a "QuickTime" folder for codecs ?

moldymac
Mar 23, 2007, 09:57 AM
ill take a look for the folder tonight. I did not try the scan and restore option. Must have slipped my mind at 2 AM lol

andyblac
Mar 23, 2007, 10:02 AM
ill take a look for the folder tonight. I did not try the scan and restore option. Must have slipped my mind at 2 AM lol

cheers, fingers crossed for that quicktime folder we may just able to add our own codecs :D, which might shut all those "AppleTV is useless because it does not have AVI support" people up. :)

moldymac
Mar 23, 2007, 10:10 AM
I had the apple tv's image I made on my macbook and took a look. There is a quicktime folder in system/library folder, and theres a bunch of files in it

moldymac
Mar 23, 2007, 10:13 AM
on a second look, it appears to be the same stuff as my macbook

andyblac
Mar 23, 2007, 10:13 AM
I had the apple tv's image I made on my macbook and took a look. There is a quicktime folder in system/library folder, and theres a bunch of files in it

like these:

QuickTimeMPEG2.component
QuickTimeIIDCDigitizer.component
QuickTimeMPEG.component
QuickTimeH264.component
QuickTime3GPP.component
ApplePixletVideo.component
QuickTimeUSBVDCDigitizer.component
QuickTimeVR.component
QuickTimeStreaming.component
QuickTimeMPEG4.component
QuartzComposer.component
QuickTime Updater
QuickTimeFireWireDV.component
QuickTimeComponents.component

andyblac
Mar 23, 2007, 10:15 AM
on a second look, it appears to be the same stuff as my macbook

cool :eek: so it looks very likely we should be-able just to copy the Divx, etc codecs in there and it should them be-able to play avi's, could you try ?


but first you'll need to make the AVI file iTunes friendly. open a AVI in quicktime the do a save as -> choese self contained file. this will then make the AVI file with a quicktime wrapper around it (a .MOV file) then import that file into iTunes then sync it to the AppleTV

Malcster
Mar 23, 2007, 10:24 AM
cool :eek: so it looks very likely we should be-able just to copy the Divx, etc codecs in there and it should them be-able to play avi's, could you try ?


but first you'll need to make the AVI file iTunes friendly. open a AVI in quicktime the do a save as -> choese self contained file. this will then make the AVI file with a quicktime wrapper around it (a .MOV file) then import that file into iTunes then sync it to the AppleTV

Yup, looks like these guys did exactly that to get xvid/perian working on it.

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2391956

edit: its on digg, i think there killing the server at the moment.

moldymac
Mar 23, 2007, 10:35 AM
like these:

QuickTimeMPEG2.component
QuickTimeIIDCDigitizer.component
QuickTimeMPEG.component
QuickTimeH264.component
QuickTime3GPP.component
ApplePixletVideo.component
QuickTimeUSBVDCDigitizer.component
QuickTimeVR.component
QuickTimeStreaming.component
QuickTimeMPEG4.component
QuartzComposer.component
QuickTime Updater
QuickTimeFireWireDV.component
QuickTimeComponents.component


Everything except
QuartzComposer.component
QuickTimeMPEG2.component

pilotError
Mar 23, 2007, 10:40 AM
Less than 24 hours after release and its been pretty exposed.

Seems like there's some light at the end of the Codec tunnel!

gkarris
Mar 23, 2007, 12:16 PM
How much RAM does this thing have?

All someone needs to do is modify OS X to work on it, and voila - a $299 Mac...

killmoms
Mar 23, 2007, 12:18 PM
You can just make reference movies for Xvids, so you don't have to create a big file that won't be compatible with anyone else's stuff—just create a reference movie that points to the AVI and you should be good to go. I believe that's what the SA guys did.

I'd be interested to see if the MPEG2 component could be put on there as well. It's not quite "playing VIDEO_TS" folders, but all those guys who have DVD rips that aren't re-encoded could just demux/remux into a QuickTime file and not have to re-encode. No quality loss!

andyblac
Mar 23, 2007, 12:39 PM
You can just make reference movies for Xvids, so you don't have to create a big file that won't be compatible with anyone else's stuff—just create a reference movie that points to the AVI and you should be good to go. I believe that's what the SA guys did.

but the original AVI would need to be on the same HD as the reference file if your streaming the AVI that would work, but i don't think a reference file would work when sync'd.