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jobutex
Mar 23, 2007, 10:47 AM
Check this link out!!!!

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2391956



killmoms
Mar 23, 2007, 10:53 AM
Sounds hacky, but WAY less hacky than I thought it'd be. Cool! Might have to re-evaluate whether I'm interested or not. If they can get the thing to output 5.1 audio, I'll be all over it.

jobutex
Mar 23, 2007, 10:57 AM
I just received mine today via Fedex about 30 minutes ago. I know what I am going to be busy doing this weekend! :D

If this truly works, it will indeed strengthen the demand for the :apple:TV.

I also hope this increases interest in future development of Perian! More information can be read about it here: http://perian.org/

Laslo Panaflex
Mar 23, 2007, 10:59 AM
This is very good, this means that Apple TV can be potentially hacked to view many other files formats.

On another note, somebody has upgraded the Apple TV hard drive to 120GB.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/diy-apple-tv-hard-drive-upgraded-to-120gb-246567.php

They say the guy will explain how he did it later today, but my guess is that he took the HD of the enclosure, hooked it up to a firewire or USB enclosure and mounted it in OS X and cloned it. He then reversed the process and put the image on the new HD.

Anyways, Apple TV is looking much more appealing to me, if it has been hacked this much in 1 day, I can't wait to see all the wacky and cool hacks people come out with in the future.

madmaxmedia
Mar 23, 2007, 11:00 AM
It's hacky now, only because ATV just came out. But this is amazing news, and great work!!

In a week or so, there's going to be a nice freeware app that will automate everything and allow you to stream your non-iTunes movies.

I think odds are better than not that you won't have to remove the HD from ATV to load Perian (but what they describe is very simple anyways.)

jobutex
Mar 23, 2007, 11:02 AM
This is very good, this means that Apple TV can be potentially hacked to view many other files formats.

On another note, somebody has upgraded the Apple TV hard drive to 120GB.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/diy-apple-tv-hard-drive-upgraded-to-120gb-246567.php

They say the guy will explain how he did it later today, but my guess is that he took the HD of the enclosure, hooked it up to a firewire or USB enclosure and mounted it in OS X and cloned it. He then reversed the process and put the image on the new HD.

Anyways, Apple TV is looking much more appealing to me, if it has been hacked this much in 1 day, I can't wait to see all the wacky and cool hacks people come out with in the future.

Oh this is great news!!!! I'll definitely have to attempt that mod. Too bad the replacement drive I might order today wouldn't be here until Monday.

jsw
Mar 23, 2007, 11:05 AM
I've never hacked an Apple product before. Ever.

That is going to change.

I'm going to use it as-is for a while, but I think I need to do the SSH/firewall hack so I can log into it. Then... we'll see. It looks very, very interesting. The ability to open up my library of DVDs - without needing to Handbrake them all - seems doable now.

madmaxmedia
Mar 23, 2007, 11:06 AM
It also seems to open the possibility of sticking in a bigger HD. It's just a modified OS X install, so clone the HD onto a bigger 120 or 160GB one. I assume it's a SATA drive (like all the new Macs.)

EDIT- It's already been done-
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/diy-apple-tv-hard-drive-upgraded-to-120gb-246567.php

jsw
Mar 23, 2007, 11:08 AM
Oh this is great news!!!! I'll definitely have to attempt that mod. Too bad the replacement drive I might order today wouldn't be here until Monday.I might do the same when I decide to mod it - clone the original, then mod the new one. That way, I can get it back to "shipped" condition at any point. I'm not interested in any hardware hacks, but, hey, this is a baby mini, and I want to play with it.

I only wish they'd've included BT. The ability to use this as a VNC/ARD client to all the attached systems would have been priceless - just carry in a wireless KB/mouse and go to work.

Of course, there is that USB port. Hmmm.

jobutex
Mar 23, 2007, 11:10 AM
It also seems to open the possibility of sticking in a bigger HD. It's just a modified OS X install, so clone the HD onto a bigger 120 or 160GB one. I assume it's a SATA drive (like all the new Macs.)

EDIT- It's already been done-
http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/diy-apple-tv-hard-drive-upgraded-to-120gb-246567.php

Actually, it looks like a 2.5" PATA drive from the pictures of the disassembly that was performed. 4200 RPM would (hopefully) be just fine for this application.

MacRumors
Mar 23, 2007, 11:42 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

A Somethingawful.com forum post (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2391956) details how to play Xvid and other non-supported formats on the Apple TV.

The process essentially involves the addition of Perian plug-in (http://perian.org/) into the /Library/Quicktime/ directory of the Apple TV's hard drive. Perian is a "a free, open source QuickTime component that adds native support for many popular video formats".

This confirms that the Apple TV is essentially running a version of Mac OS X. The process does require disassembly of the Apple TV unit to access the hard drive, but should pave the way for easier tutorials.

Meanwhile, Gizmodo posts (http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/diy-apple-tv-hard-drive-upgraded-to-120gb-246567.php) a success story of upgrading the Apple TV's hard drive to a 120GB drive.

jobutex
Mar 23, 2007, 11:44 AM
More info on the methods/tools used in the mod:

Dropbear SSH server: http://matt.ucc.asn.au/dropbear/dropbear.html
Digg Article: http://digg.com/apple/XviD_fully_functional_on_Apple_TV

robo74
Mar 23, 2007, 11:44 AM
Now were talkin! Did not take long at all!

epicwelshman
Mar 23, 2007, 11:45 AM
wow, they certainly move fast!

justflie
Mar 23, 2007, 11:45 AM
Well that certainly didn't take long. I'm surprised they didn't post more about the ATV OS itself. To me, that's a heck of a lot more interesting than a larger HDD or Xvid support. The ATV must be running some version of Leopard since it uses Core Animation, right? Could this be similar to the OS running on the iPhone? Some developer that knows his code needs to report back on this stuff please! :D

enda1
Mar 23, 2007, 11:46 AM
That was quick!! Now someone hack the usb - external hard drive thingy!!

RichP
Mar 23, 2007, 11:46 AM
very nice!

be careful kitties, you accidentally erase or corrupt the :apple: TV HD; I dont think apple will send a restore disk :p

milatchi
Mar 23, 2007, 11:48 AM
This is good news. A lot of the stuff available at various sites for download is in XviD, and I use XviD for a lot of encoding also. I am still puzzled as to why such a small Hard disk was shipped with it though.

Eidorian
Mar 23, 2007, 11:49 AM
I was honestly surprised how easy it was to hack AppleTV. They made it rather simple given it's an OSX installation and the hard drive is reachable.

johnee
Mar 23, 2007, 11:50 AM
Hasn't someone figured out how to run linux on it yet?

I'm surprised it took this long for any hack in general

mixel
Mar 23, 2007, 11:54 AM
Ahahah. Brilliant. :D

I love it!

Now everyone can be happy about the device. A quick HD move/copy of files is a hell of a lot less hassle than re-encoding a library.

Xeem
Mar 23, 2007, 11:55 AM
This is great news. No longer is Apple TV incompatible with my entire movie library!

Novaoblivion
Mar 23, 2007, 11:59 AM
I might buy one now that it can play all my xvid stuff :D. Too bad it cant do 1080p though.

johnee
Mar 23, 2007, 12:00 PM
.....I am still puzzled as to why such a small Hard disk was shipped with it though.

cost. the only thing that drives business decisions.

epochblue
Mar 23, 2007, 12:06 PM
This is exactly what I was waiting to see: Bigger HDD and the ability to play the movies I download, and I'm even more surprised it all happened as quickly as it did!!

Perhaps I'll have to cave and buy one of these, after all! :D :D

min_t
Mar 23, 2007, 12:09 PM
Perhaps, this was :apple: 's intent in the first. Kill xbox360 that doesn't allow modding by letting everyone tweak :apple: tv . Could Sir Steve be that devious?

odedia
Mar 23, 2007, 12:10 PM
I am wondering:

If the AppleTV is running a modified version of OS X, can it run a FULL version of OS X?

I mean, basically it's a computer in there right?

A processor, a GPU, some RAM (I guess...) and a Hard Drive.

The only difference is that you don't have a DVI out, but an HDMI out instead.

Man, if this is correct it'll be the knockout.

If someone in the mood for testing, please tell us (You can clone the existing setup for backup if it doesn't work).

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 12:11 PM
Check this link out!!!!

http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=2391956

Apple Remote DeskTop sees Apple TV on the network! So if any brave soul gets at the drive try switching it on in Sharing if possible then maybe it will be controllable.

justflie
Mar 23, 2007, 12:11 PM
I know that this has been posted somewhere but I can't remember; does the ATV have a regular-sized HDD or is it laptop sized? That would make a big difference in the price of replacing the hard drive with something gigundous.

Eidorian
Mar 23, 2007, 12:14 PM
I know that this has been posted somewhere but I can't remember; does the ATV have a regular-sized HDD or is it laptop sized? That would make a big difference in the price of replacing the hard drive with something gigundous.2.5" drive and it's more then likely SATA.

aarond12
Mar 23, 2007, 12:14 PM
cost. the only thing that drives business decisions.

Cost and the fact that not many people have more than 40GB of media on their local computers.

My music collection is ~31GB right now, but I really doubt I'm in the majority of iPod/iTunes users -- hence the iPod Nano selling well with its 2, 4, and 8GB capacities.

-Aaron-

~Shard~
Mar 23, 2007, 12:16 PM
Cool news. If the ATV is opnened up further like this perhaps I will consider purchasing one. The main reasons why I am not buying one are simply due to the lack of content which is available on the Canadian iTMS. Open up the ATV to all content, such as my donwloaded Xvids, AVIs, etc. and perhaps I'll reconsider.... perhaps...

killmoms
Mar 23, 2007, 12:16 PM
2.5" drive and it's more then likely SATA.

Based on disassembly pictures it's actually a PATA drive.

aristobrat
Mar 23, 2007, 12:17 PM
Wonder if this'll present the same issue that the people who hacked their DirecTV TiVos have, where if DirecTV sends a TiVo software update, it wipes out their hacks.

nateDEEZY
Mar 23, 2007, 12:17 PM
This is good news! :D Again though, why rate this as a negative? This opens a lot of doors to people who previously weren't going to buy it because of the support format!

Eidorian
Mar 23, 2007, 12:17 PM
Based on disassembly pictures it's actually a PATA drive.On second look, yes.

MightyB
Mar 23, 2007, 12:20 PM
very nice!

be careful kitties, you accidentally erase or corrupt the :apple: TV HD; I dont think apple will send a restore disk :p

How soon before I can download a clone of the :apple:TV OS as .torrent? ;) :D

~Shard~
Mar 23, 2007, 12:21 PM
not many people have more than 40GB of media on their local computers.

I would argue that this statement is quite inaccurate - on the contrary, many, many people have far more than 40GB of media on their main computer. I have over 40 GB of music alone, let alone several GBs of photos and a good 50+ GB of video content - and that's just on my local machine, not factoring in the hundreds of GBs I have on external storage which I could easily move onto my machine if necessary... Not saying I'm the norm, but I'm definitely not in the small minority as you imply. :cool:

justflie
Mar 23, 2007, 12:24 PM
As silly as it sounds, this will be great for sales, and I think Apple planned this going into it. Apparently, they made the username/password VERY easy to hack (or even guess) for the custom install of Tiger. It was frontrow:frontrow. They probably couldn't have the codecs pre-installed by them for fear of retaliation by the movie companies (let's face it, MOST but not all movies using divx or xvid or whatever are illegally obtained). But that doesn't mean they have to make it totally impossible to add this codec support on your own if you want it. The geeks (me included I guess) are going nuts about this at digg.com. Now they're asking if it's possible to wipe the HDD and do a straight-up install of OS X and use it like a low-end intel box. Now wouldn't that be interesting, a $300 computer from Apple :p

justflie
Mar 23, 2007, 12:25 PM
How soon before I can download a clone of the :apple:TV OS as .torrent? ;) :D

Haha, someone on digg says it's already up. But I don't have an ATV so it doesn't really matter for me.

vkxonline
Mar 23, 2007, 12:26 PM
I think the biggest flaw in this device is the surround. I can live with everything else. Let's get mp4 surround working on this sucker.

Rocketman
Mar 23, 2007, 12:26 PM
Perhaps, this was :apple: 's intent in the first. Kill xbox360 that doesn't allow modding by letting everyone tweak :apple: tv . Could Sir Steve be that devious?

He and Wozniak got started by doing some "fun things". Why not suck the "hobbiest" market over to Aple and see what pops out the other end Apple can exploit for free in its commercial market :)

You have to admit it also silences a lot of their critics by making the hacks "convenient, fun, and of great variety".

Rocketman

jobutex
Mar 23, 2007, 12:27 PM
OK, I've got SSH working on this thing. I'm going to try installing a different version of IOKit. I think (fingers crossed) I might be able to get full USB support on this thing!!!!

gugy
Mar 23, 2007, 12:28 PM
sorry for my ignorance,
Can somebody explain why is this so exciting?:confused:

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 12:30 PM
As silly as it sounds, this will be great for sales, and I think Apple planned this going into it. Apparently, they made the username/password VERY easy to hack (or even guess) for the custom install of Tiger. It was frontrow:frontrow. They probably couldn't have the codecs pre-installed by them for fear of retaliation by the movie companies (let's face it, MOST but not all movies using divx or xvid or whatever are illegally obtained). But that doesn't mean they have to make it totally impossible to add this codec support on your own if you want it. The geeks (me included I guess) are going nuts about this at digg.com. Now they're asking if it's possible to wipe the HDD and do a straight-up install of OS X and use it like a low-end intel box. Now wouldn't that be interesting, a $300 computer from Apple :p

They haven't pre invoked ARD in sharing unfortunately. Once on, assuming it is really OS X, we can access remotely!

BuzWeaver
Mar 23, 2007, 12:35 PM
For what its worth here is an article from TUAW:

http://www.tuaw.com/2007/03/23/apple-tv-hacked-to-play-xvid-format-videos/

Carniphage
Mar 23, 2007, 12:36 PM
I would argue that this statement is quite inaccurate - on the contrary, many, many people have far more than 40GB of media on their main computer. I have over 40 GB of music alone, let alone several GBs of photos and a good 50+ GB of video content - and that's just on my local machine, not factoring in the hundreds of GBs I have on external storage which I could easily move onto my machine if necessary... Not saying I'm the norm, but I'm definitely not in the small minority as you imply. :cool:

But the 40GB on the Apple TV is just a cache. Just like the 32Mb flash memory on the iPod. You can put all your content on a fat media-server or on an disk attached to the Airport Extreme.

40Gb does not define how much media you can access. Just how much media is cached inside the AppleTV box. I don't get the problem.

C.

Doctor Q
Mar 23, 2007, 12:36 PM
In theory, could you install and run Folding@home on the :apple:TV?

aristobrat
Mar 23, 2007, 12:38 PM
I would argue that this statement is quite inaccurate - on the contrary, many, many people have far more than 40GB of media on their main computer. I have over 40 GB of music alone, let alone several GBs of photos and a good 50+ GB of video content - and that's just on my local machine, not factoring in the hundreds of GBs I have on external storage which I could easily move onto my machine if necessary... Not saying I'm the norm, but I'm definitely not in the small minority as you imply. :cool:
What I like is you can chose to sync a subset of a huge library to the Apple TV and then "on demand" stream anything you didn't chose to sync.

I guess it'd be nice to have enough GB to have everything cached locally on the Apple TV HD, but with options like "only keeping unwatched TV shows" synced on the Apple TV (but being able to view "watched TV shows" by streaming), it's not hard to work easily with the 40GB.

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 12:38 PM
sorry for my ignorance,
Can somebody explain why is this so exciting?:confused:

Well if you mean being able to put in larger disks and use other codecs ... it is simply widening the options. I need way more than 40 GIGs ASAP. If you mean the ATV in general ...

The whole thing is exciting to me, I am just a media Freak I guess. My Aperture selected entries look amazing on a 52" HD TV. This is the first time I have been able to see them this big since trying to set fire to my 35mm slides in a projector! lol

My own 1080i material exported with QT as ATV media looks astonishing! Lots more tests to do there, but this is the first time I have been able to watch my own edited work without going back to the camera from FCPro HD and hooking the camera up to my TV!

Plus my iPod is now disconteced from the main Hi Fi system since ATV makes it so easy... worth it for that alone!

I am amazed at the higher bite rate H.264 DVDs I ripped with Handbrake. I set to 1500 and they look amazing!

As soon as Apple start putting higher quality movies on iTS it will be even better ...:D

Sorry if you don't find anything exciting about ATV.:(

p.s. I made sure no 11g products were connected so I assume I have 11n speed between new Airport Extreme and ATV (any way to check?). It has synced a dozen full length movies in a couple of hours already so seems fast and it can stream movies not yet uploaded without a hic up while syncing other material.

musicpenguy
Mar 23, 2007, 12:38 PM
You do know that AVI Containers are one of the few formats that supports AC3 i.e. true surround sound: mp4s don't have that which is why nobody uses it! So this is a huge breakthrough and I will eventually actually buy one!!!!!!

Edit: what is this SSH I have been hearing about how would it benefit a user??
Thanks

johnee
Mar 23, 2007, 12:39 PM
Cost and the fact that not many people have more than 40GB of media on their local computers.

My music collection is ~31GB right now, but I really doubt I'm in the majority of iPod/iTunes users -- hence the iPod Nano selling well with its 2, 4, and 8GB capacities.

-Aaron-

ah, but apple tv is for movies which are MUCH larger.

aristobrat
Mar 23, 2007, 12:39 PM
In theory, could you install and run Folding@home on the :apple:TV?
Yeah, but honestly, as hot as the thing gets now, I'd be afraid it'd spontaneously combust if you ran a truly CPU-intensive process for a few hours. :eek: :D

gugy
Mar 23, 2007, 12:41 PM
Sorry if you don't find anything exciting about ATV.:(

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying I am not excite, I just trying to comprehend the excitement behind these news.;)

justflie
Mar 23, 2007, 12:42 PM
Yeah, but honestly, as hot as the thing gets now, I'd be afraid it'd spontaneously combust if you ran a truly CPU-intensive process for a few hours. :eek: :D

Lol, I guess it wouldn't really be called spontaneous combustion in that case :p I'm pretty sure that the processor isn't this thing isn't all that special (and why would it have to be), but I guess every little work unit helps!

Eraserhead
Mar 23, 2007, 12:46 PM
Edit: what is this SSH I have been hearing about how would it benefit a user??
Thanks

Secure shell, SSH allows you to use a program like Transmit (or the command line) to copy data onto the Apple TV.

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 12:49 PM
Don't get me wrong, I am not saying I am not excite, I just trying to comprehend the excitement behind these news.;)

OK ... Did I convince you ? :)

milo
Mar 23, 2007, 12:50 PM
I think the biggest flaw in this device is the surround. I can live with everything else. Let's get mp4 surround working on this sucker.

Has anyone tried playing surround QT content yet? Do we have confirmation that it doesn't work?

If it doesn't work now I'd bet it will in the future with either a hack or a software update from apple.

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 12:50 PM
Secure shell, SSH allows you to use a program like Transmit (or the command line) to copy data onto the Apple TV.

Any way to switch on ARD via command line? If so idiot level instructions please :)

Also I have Transmit, I have the IP of ATV ... what next? FTP isn't running on ATV so I am lost as to how to connect.

I would rather use ARD if possible though.

gugy
Mar 23, 2007, 12:56 PM
OK ... Did I convince you ? :)

It does open more possibilities than before, That's for sure.
It's worth to take a second look at AppleTV.

Now, with this, is it possible to get then 1080p support and 5.1 audio?

Cheers

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 01:01 PM
I does open more possibilities than before, That's for sure.
It's worth to take a second look at AppleTV.

Now, if this, is it possible to get then 1080p support and 5.1 audio?

Cheers

Just curious, where are you going to get 1080p material and what HD TV did you decide on for 1080p? Last I looked there was not much around, perhaps more are available now. I'm still left wondering about material though.

Markleshark
Mar 23, 2007, 01:01 PM
Nice, but I don't know if id buy one knowing id have to open it up to get it to do what I want...

enjoyapple
Mar 23, 2007, 01:02 PM
can any ?TV owner tell me if there's any way to stream only the images and movies via the ?TV but the sound via an external MAUDIO sonica card attatched to MPBC2D?...

aristobrat
Mar 23, 2007, 01:04 PM
Any way to switch on ARD via command line? If so idiot level instructions please :)

Also I have Transmit, I have the IP of ATV ... what next? FTP isn't running on ATV so I am lost as to how to connect.
Use SCP instead of FTP to copy files? If SSH works, I think SCP should.

peterjhill
Mar 23, 2007, 01:04 PM
How long until I can buy a HD from weakknees.. I guess there are some issues since the mac os is more copy protected than tivo.. It would be nice if someone offered this as a service.

peter

Hattig
Mar 23, 2007, 01:05 PM
Awesome stuff.

Apple should offer a 120GB version for $399 for those of us with large photo collections / music collections / media collections / don't want the computer to be on all the time desires.

The SSH + Codecs 'hack' is awesome, and makes the device desirable to a lot more people.

C'mon someone, install Apache on it! It's just a BSD box with a pretty GUI...

Edit: I'm sure I read somewhere that someone had verified that 5.1 surround works with AVI files which use AAC surround sound...

gugy
Mar 23, 2007, 01:05 PM
Just curious, where are you going to get 1080p material and what HD TV did you decide on for 1080p? Last I looked there was not much around, perhaps more are available now. I'm still left wondering about material though.

Not now, but this summer Pioneer Elite is going to have two HDTV (50" and 60") sets at 1080p that are just fantastic. I am planning to purchase it.
As for content, mostly now is 1080i or 720 for broadcasts that I can record using Elgato.
But, as time goes by, 1080p is going to be more relevant.
I am just looking at the near future to make a wise decision about AppleTV.

Orge
Mar 23, 2007, 01:06 PM
Any way to switch on ARD via command line? If so idiot level instructions please :)

Also I have Transmit, I have the IP of ATV ... what next? FTP isn't running on ATV so I am lost as to how to connect.

I would rather use ARD if possible though.

There's a couple of online tutorials at Apple's site for configuring ARD remotely:

v2 is http://snipurl.com/1dszl

You'll find earlier versions linked from that page as well.

Good luck, young padawan! ;)

J

mikeinternet
Mar 23, 2007, 01:07 PM
....I am still puzzled as to why such a small Hard disk was shipped with it though.

i'm surprised it had a hard disk at all, let alone a huge one. it doesn't (as of now) DVR or buy direct from iTunes. it is meant to playback what is on your comp. i understand that you can put stuff on its drive and use it without a computer, but why bother? just so you can turn your comp off?

they should have just used a small flash drive for the os.

volvoben
Mar 23, 2007, 01:09 PM
When the :apple: tv was first announced I was rather excited, probably in large part because it was something from apple for only $300. Later on though I realized that it had the giant flaw of only playing ipod-like video formats (plus my videos are kept on my linux server until, someday, i trip over $2800 and can buy a mac pro plus some ram and another few HDDs)

I almost skipped over this article because it had :apple: tv in the headline, but if with a bit more time/hacking we can just browse shared network folders for video the :apple: tv becomes a nice option. surround sound would be nice, but i personally have a very high end stereo setup and definitely can't justify surround for another 5 or more years.

note on HDDs: isn't the point to mainly stream video over ethernet? I can stream relatively large (920x640 mpg) video just fine between my computers now over ethernet, unless you're watching huge HD video why store anything, especially music, on the :apple: tv HDD unless your main computer is off and non-ethernet-wakeable?

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 01:12 PM
i'm surprised it had a hard disk at all, let alone a huge one. it doesn't (as of now) DVR or buy direct from iTunes. it is meant to playback what is on your comp. i understand that you can put stuff on its drive and use it without a computer, but why bother? just so you can turn your comp off?

they should have just used a small flash drive for the os.

In the last 2 hours my AVT now has a dozen movies on and several thousand songs and a few photo albums. My computer in my office can be switched off and they are still there. As you say that's probably the main reason. If not there would loads of moaners (you know the ones that have to find fault with everything ;) ) saying how useless ATV is since it still needs a computer on to stream all the time. I am blown away by it!

Plus $299! It's a steal!

Yvan256
Mar 23, 2007, 01:15 PM
I'm just waiting for a hack to make the :apple:TV work on 4:3 televisions. It works fine on mine, but it really should have a TV ratio setting. I can connect via components, I can display 480p. But the ratio is 4:3, not 16:9.

When you think that a simple firmware update would make the :apple:TV available to a lot more people, you have to wonder why Apple hasn't done it in the first place. :confused:

05elstonc
Mar 23, 2007, 01:16 PM
On the 5.1 sound front. Apple has really future proofed the hardware in the AppleTV. They put in one of the latest and greatest Audio Codecs from Realtek the ACL885.


"The ALC885 is a high-performance 7.1+2 Channel High Definition Audio Codec with advanced lossless content protection technology that protects pre-recorded content while still allowing full-rate audio enjoyment from DVD audio, Blu-ray DVD, or HD DVD discs."

"Support for 16/20/24-bit S/PDIF input and output offers easy connection of PCs to high-quality consumer electronic products such as digital decoders and speakers. The series incorporates Realtek proprietary converter technology to achieve 106dB Signal-to-Noise ratio (SNR) playback quality and 101dB SNR recording quality, and is designed for Windows Vista premium desktop and laptop systems."

This indicates to me that Apple knows that true surround sound is a real desire of consumers and they wanted to make sure that a simple software update would unleash the power as soon as the iTunes store content is ready.

Airforce
Mar 23, 2007, 01:17 PM
Plus $299! It's a steal!

I wouldn't go that far.... ;)

Rocketman
Mar 23, 2007, 01:17 PM
I did a little reading of digg this morning and those guys are mostly PC hackers with an emphasis on linux and windblows. These guys are whipping out their credit cards and buying AppleTV's by the dozens!

Some several each.

Why?

Hacked to play every major vid format and soon 5.1 audio too.

Hacked to be a router.

Hacked to be a mailserver.

Hacked to serve the content on their PC content servers via Apple TV to play their many "Apple unsupported video formats".

Micro servers for gaming programs, to send stuff from their now less exciting Xboxes.

Someting to do as a hobby. These guys are having some actual fun with this.

Interesting. Apple is appealing to Wozniacs of the year 2007. This is good stuff.

Rocketman

mikeinternet
Mar 23, 2007, 01:22 PM
In the last 2 hours my AVT now has a dozen movies on and several thousand songs and a few photo albums. My computer in my office can be switched off and they are still there. As you say that's probably the main reason. If not there would loads of moaners (you know the ones that have to find fault with everything ;) ) saying how useless ATV is since it still needs a computer on to stream all the time. I am blown away by it!

Plus $299! It's a steal!

seems to be the only plus to storing on the :apple: TV . but i never really turn my computer off anyways.

Morris
Mar 23, 2007, 01:25 PM
You do know that AVI Containers are one of the few formats that supports AC3 i.e. true surround sound: mp4s don't have that which is why nobody uses it! So this is a huge breakthrough and I will eventually actually buy one!!!!!!



Edit: I'm sure I read somewhere that someone had verified that 5.1 surround works with AVI files which use AAC surround sound...

Considering AAC supports up to 48 channels (think 47.1 surround :D ) it can't be a codec limitation, if it is a problem the reason would be the container (AVI/MP4).

macinfojunkie
Mar 23, 2007, 01:27 PM
I wonder how long it will take before there's a way to install additional apps and maybe run eyetV via the USB port? Seems doable if the OS is on a writable HD.

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 01:28 PM
I'm just waiting for a hack to make the :apple:TV work on 4:3 televisions. It works fine on mine, but it really should have a TV ratio setting. I can connect via components, I can display 480p. But the ratio is 4:3, not 16:9.

When you think that a simple firmware update would make the :apple:TV available to a lot more people, you have to wonder why Apple hasn't done it in the first place. :confused:

Oh, just go and treat yourself to a nice HD TV that's what credit cards are for ;)

mdntcallr
Mar 23, 2007, 01:29 PM
what about connecting a external USB hard drive. will that allow extra room? ie not clone and replace. but put in a mac mini usb hd. ??

then get extra room on the apple tv?

i just got mine, but it is already full.

05elstonc
Mar 23, 2007, 01:29 PM
I did a little reading of digg this morning and those guys are mostly PC hackers with an emphasis on linux and windblows. These guys are whipping out their credit cards and buying AppleTV's by the dozens!

Someting to do as a hobby. These guys are having some actual fun with this.

Interesting. Apple is appealing to Wozniacs of the year 2007. This is good stuff.

Rocketman

It is so cool reading through that thread on Somethingawful. There are guys leaving work early to hit up their apple store to buy an AppleTV. They are really really excited about it. I hope apple continues to turn a blind eye to it in future software updates. I bet by tonight there will be some major breakthroughs.

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 01:31 PM
I wonder how long it will take before there's a way to install additional apps and maybe run eyetV via the USB port? Seems doable if the OS is on a writable HD.

An alarm clock that plays nice music at 7 a.m. and wirelessly makes toast and coffee too, oh yes ... and feeds the cat and let's the dog out and ... it's all coming soon :)

what about connecting a external USB hard drive. will that allow extra room? ie not clone and replace. but put in a mac mini usb hd. ??

then get extra room on the apple tv?

i just got mine, but it is already full.

I read that doesn't work but anyone tried booting the thing via USB yet?

p.s. Use iTunes to only sync what you select. I have 200 GIGs of stuff in music and movies so i selected a few play lists and a few movies and a couple of Photo Albums. My Aperture Library alone is 500 GIGs lol!

Porchland
Mar 23, 2007, 01:34 PM
Awesome stuff.

Apple should offer a 120GB version for $399 for those of us with large photo collections / music collections / media collections / don't want the computer to be on all the time desires.


As others have said, the need for more space depends on how effectively :apple:tv streams. In theory, the box should be able to cache anything you're watching faster than you watch, i.e., assuming you have enough wireless bandwidth, you'll never need more than a few hours of storage space for content.

That said, I see :apple:tv becoming a stand-alone device that will access and purchase content from iTS without talking to your computer. When that happens, you'll be storing what you buy right there on the box like you do now with a DVR. The only reason you would need to involve a computer would be to offload things you want to keep to free up more space, but the casual user -- again, like with the DVR -- will just delete things after watching them.

If it gets a good reputation for easy setup and use -- and it should -- :apple:tv could become a huge Trojan Horse for Apple to attract future switchers.

outlyer
Mar 23, 2007, 01:35 PM
I recall that with normal OSX machines, you can boot them into "target disc mode" and mount the hard drive from another machine via firewire. Is such a thing possible with USB? If so, it might save the trouble of having to rip the machine open to make these changes.

That said, I can see the advantage of a larger drive, but codec support isn't as important to me. I encode my own media to h264 so it makes no difference to me whether it supports XVID.

It's a wonderful little machine though, no noise, and worked within minutes.

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 01:39 PM
I recall that with normal OSX machines, you can boot them into "target disc mode" and mount the hard drive from another machine via firewire. Is such a thing possible with USB? If so, it might save the trouble of having to rip the machine open to make these changes.

That said, I can see the advantage of a larger drive, but codec support isn't as important to me. I encode my own media to h264 so it makes no difference to me whether it supports XVID.

It's a wonderful little machine though, no noise, and worked within minutes.

Try the target trick and let me know ... :)

DOES anyone know how to make the remote specific to ATV. Every time I use it both of our laptops start running music or videos. It was funny the first time ... but getting old! :o

psingh01
Mar 23, 2007, 01:51 PM
i'm sure apple doesn't want people hacking it...but they didn't bother trying to make it hard either :D i am actually considering a purchase no lol

nodedawg
Mar 23, 2007, 01:54 PM
The Apple TV is running a stripped down version of 10.4.7 and look it appear to have a future in video capture:

http://www.techrestore.com/2007/03/apple-tv-software.shtml

jsw
Mar 23, 2007, 01:56 PM
Try the target trick and let me know ... :)

DOES anyone know how to make the remote specific to ATV. Every time I use it both of our laptops start running music or videos. It was funny the first time ... but getting old! :oOne of the menu options is to pair the remote with the Apple TV.

Also, you can pair the other remote with the MB (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=302545).

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 01:57 PM
The Apple TV is running a stripped down version of 10.4.7 and look it appear to have a future in video capture:

http://www.techrestore.com/2007/03/apple-tv-software.shtml

Notice in 'Settings' it has 'Software Update' too... Next year maybe stripped down 10.5 :)

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 01:59 PM
One of the menu options is to pair the remote with the Apple TV.

Also, you can pair the other remote with the MB (http://docs.info.apple.com/article.html?artnum=302545).

I did that... That's when it started .. seems the laptops are using the same settings by some weird chance in a zillion or else something else is a foot! I'll try re pairing the other remotes with the Laptops :) Thanks.

aristobrat
Mar 23, 2007, 02:00 PM
DOES anyone know how to make the remote specific to ATV. Every time I use it both of our laptops start running music or videos. It was funny the first time ... but getting old! :o
I think (for the result you're going after), you will need to tell your laptops to either ignore all remotes, or you will have to pair them to a remote that's different from your Apple TV remote.

I think that if you just pair your Apple TV remote to your Apple TV, your Apple TV will only respond to that remote, but it doesn't stop other devices (like your laptop) from responding to it.

Hopefully I got that right...

Edit: I see you already figured this out. ;)

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 02:01 PM
The Apple TV is running a stripped down version of 10.4.7 and look it appear to have a future in video capture:

http://www.techrestore.com/2007/03/apple-tv-software.shtml

I want a hack to give it back its Finder ... poor thing!

wallinbl
Mar 23, 2007, 02:01 PM
Just curious, where are you going to get 1080p material and what HD TV did you decide on for 1080p? Last I looked there was not much around, perhaps more are available now. I'm still left wondering about material though.

I have a 1080p HDTV. It's a Samsung HL-S5088W. No content up to this point, but got a good deal and figured may as well have it (plus, it looked a ton better than the older model that did 720p). It was mostly just brighter and had better color showing the same content at same res.

Krevnik
Mar 23, 2007, 02:04 PM
DOES anyone know how to make the remote specific to ATV. Every time I use it both of our laptops start running music or videos. It was funny the first time ... but getting old! :o

Settings > Pair Remote.

giganten
Mar 23, 2007, 02:04 PM
Nice..
If they will release games to the :apple:tv, then I might buy one.

Doctor Q
Mar 23, 2007, 02:10 PM
Home-grown upgrades will always appeal to hardcore techies, but not to the average consumer. For consumers, Apple will presumably come out with newer and better :apple:TV models as time goes on.

Since the :apple:TV software can be upgraded without replacing the box, some future features will be available to those of us with the "first generation" product. It's the hardware that would change for the "next generation" product -- faster processor, bigger hard drive, changes in input and output speeds and formats, etc.

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 02:12 PM
I have a 1080p HDTV. It's a Samsung HL-S5088W. No content up to this point, but got a good deal and figured may as well have it (plus, it looked a ton better than the older model that did 720p). It was mostly just brighter and had better color showing the same content at same res.

Cool. And WOW they have come down in price! Thanks for info.

But I have to say go blow $299 anyway. I have not had this much fun in ages. I made a bunch of 720p from 1080i material and it rocks on a 52" 1080i Sony. HandBrake is smokin' away making all my Rock Concerts into H.264 (1500 bit-rate and de-interlaced and double pass).

But that aside ... having iTunes via HD TV / Sound System in Family room even at 720p is sooo much fun and the photos from Aperture are stunning!

Maccus Aurelius
Mar 23, 2007, 02:13 PM
I'm just gonna have to run up to the Apple store tomorrow to check this out....sweet.

killmoms
Mar 23, 2007, 02:14 PM
That said, I see :apple:tv becoming a stand-alone device that will access and purchase content from iTS without talking to your computer. When that happens, you'll be storing what you buy right there on the box like you do now with a DVR. The only reason you would need to involve a computer would be to offload things you want to keep to free up more space, but the casual user -- again, like with the DVR -- will just delete things after watching them.

If it gets a good reputation for easy setup and use -- and it should -- :apple:tv could become a huge Trojan Horse for Apple to attract future switchers.

Seems to me that'd require the iTunes Store to begin some sort of subscription-like service, something Steve Jobs has said over and over he's loath to do.

Rocketman
Mar 23, 2007, 02:16 PM
Check this link out!!!!


Check THIS out!

Executive summary:
System Version: Apple TV OS 10.4.7 (8N5107)
Serial Number: CLOWNS666


Raw data:


bash-2.05b# system_profiler
Hardware:

Hardware Overview:

Machine Name: Mac
Machine Model: AppleTV1,1
Processor Speed: 1 GHz
Number Of Processors: 1
Total Number Of Cores: 1
Memory: 256 MB
Bus Speed: 400 MHz
Boot ROM Version: ATV11.00D9.B00
Serial Number: CLOWNS666
L2 Cache: 2 MB

Network:

Built-in Ethernet:

Type: Ethernet
Hardware: Ethernet
BSD Device Name: en0
Has IP Assigned: Yes
IPv4 Addresses: [Removed -- Awkward]
IPv4:
Addresses: [Removed -- Awkward]
Configuration Method: DHCP
Interface Name: en0
Router: [Removed -- Awkward]
Subnet Masks: [Removed -- Awkward]
IPv6:
Configuration Method: Automatic
DNS:
Domain Name: blah blah blah
Server Addresses: [Removed -- Awkward], [Removed -- Awkward]
DHCP Server Responses:
Domain Name: dingle dingle ding
Domain Name Servers: [Removed -- Awkward]
Lease Duration (seconds): 0
DHCP Message Type: 0x05
Routers: [Removed -- Awkward]
Server Identifier: [Removed -- Awkward]
Subnet Mask: [Removed -- Awkward]
Proxies:
FTP Proxy Enabled: No
FTP Passive Mode: Yes
Gopher Proxy Enabled: No
HTTP Proxy Enabled: No
HTTPS Proxy Enabled: No
RTSP Proxy Enabled: No
SOCKS Proxy Enabled: No
Ethernet:
MAC Address: [Removed -- Awkward]
Media Options: Full Duplex
Media Subtype: 100baseTX

Type: AirPort
Hardware: AirPort
BSD Device Name: en1
Has IP Assigned: No
IPv4:
Configuration Method: DHCP
Ethernet:
MAC Address: [Removed -- Awkward]
Media Options:
Media Subtype: autoselect

Software:

System Software Overview:

System Version: Apple TV OS 10.4.7 (8N5107)
Kernel Version: Darwin 8.8.2
Boot Volume: OSBoot
Computer Name: AppleTV
User Name: System Administrator (root)

ATA:

ATA Bus:

FUJITSU MHW2040AT:

Capacity: 37.26 GB
Model: FUJITSU MHW2040AT
Revision: 0081000C
Serial Number: CL0WNT0WN
Removable Media: No
Detachable Drive: No
BSD Name: disk0
Protocol: ATA
Unit Number: 0
Socket Type: Internal
Low Power Polling: No
OS9 Drivers: No
S.M.A.R.T. status: Verified
Volumes:
OSBoot:
Capacity: 900 MB
Available: 422.18 MB
Writable: Yes
File System: Journaled HFS+
BSD Name: disk0s3
Mount Point: /
Media:
Capacity: 35.96 GB
Available: 35.19 GB
Writable: Yes
File System: Journaled HFS+
BSD Name: disk0s4
Mount Point: /mnt
Volumes:
disk0s3:
Capacity: 900 MB
Available: 422.18 MB
Writable: Yes
File System: Journaled HFS+
disk0s4:
Capacity: 35.96 GB
Available: 35.19 GB
Writable: Yes
File System: Journaled HFS+

Audio (Built In):

Intel High Definition Audio:

Available Devices:
Line Out:
Connection: RCA
S/P-DIF Out:
Connection: Optical

Diagnostics:

Power On Self-Test:

Last Run: 3/23/07 6:17 AM
Result: Passed

FireWire:

Graphics/Displays:

GeForce Go 7300:

Chipset Model: GeForce Go 7300
Type: Display
Bus: PCIe
VRAM (Total): 64 MB
Vendor: NVIDIA (0x10de)
Device ID: 0x01d7
Revision ID: 0x00a1
ROM Revision: 3144
Displays:
HP LP2465:
Resolution: 1280 x 720 @ 60 Hz
Depth: 32-bit Color
Core Image: Supported
Main Display: Yes
Mirror: Off
Online: Yes
Quartz Extreme: Not Supported
Rotation: Supported

Memory:

BANK 0/DIMM0:

Size: 256 MB
Type: DDR2 SDRAM
Speed: 400 MHz
Status: OK

BANK 1/DIMM1:

Size: Empty
Type: Empty
Speed: Empty
Status: Empty

Power:

System Power Settings:

AC Power:
System Sleep Timer (Minutes): 0
Disk Sleep Timer (Minutes): 0
Display Sleep Timer (Minutes): 0
Sleep On Power Button: No
Automatic Restart On Power Loss: Yes

USB:

USB High-Speed Bus:

Host Controller Location: Built In USB
Host Controller Driver: AppleUSBEHCI
PCI Device ID: 0x27cc
PCI Revision ID: 0x0002
PCI Vendor ID: 0x8086
Bus Number: 0xfd

USB Bus:

Host Controller Location: Built In USB
Host Controller Driver: AppleUSBUHCI
PCI Device ID: 0x27c8
PCI Revision ID: 0x0002
PCI Vendor ID: 0x8086
Bus Number: 0x1d

IR Receiver:

Version: 2.42
Bus Power (mA): 500
Speed: Up to 1.5 Mb/sec
Manufacturer: Apple Computer, Inc.
Product ID: 0x8241
Vendor ID: 0x05ac (Apple Computer, Inc.)

AirPort Card:

AirPort Card Information:

Wireless Card Type: AirPort Extreme (0x14E4, 0x87)
Wireless Card Locale: USA
Wireless Card Firmware Version: Broadcom BCM43xx 1.0 (4.80.79.1)
Current Wireless Network: AirPort is currently turned off

Locations:

Automatic:

Active Location: Yes
Services:
Built-in Ethernet:
Type: Ethernet
BSD Device Name: en0
Hardware (MAC) Address: [Removed -- Awkward]
IPv4:
Configuration Method: DHCP
IPv6:
Configuration Method: Automatic
AppleTalk:
Configuration Method: Node
Proxies:
FTP Proxy Enabled: 0
FTP Passive Mode: 1
Gopher Proxy Enabled: 0
HTTP Proxy Enabled: 0
HTTPS Proxy Enabled: 0
RTSP Proxy Enabled: 0
SOCKS Proxy Enabled: 0
Type: IEEE80211
BSD Device Name: en1
Hardware (MAC) Address: [Removed -- Awkward]
IPv4:
Configuration Method: DHCP
IEEE80211:
AllowNetCreation: 1
JoinMode: Automatic
MAC Address: [Removed -- Awkward]


You gotta love a messagehost that says this (with no ***)!

Awkward f**ed around with this message at Mar 23, 2007 around 19:19


:D :D :D :D

Rocketman

AidenShaw
Mar 23, 2007, 02:19 PM
In theory, could you install and run Folding@home on the :apple:TV?

A Pentium M puts out a lot of heat when the CPU is under full load - the cooling system in the iTV might not be spec'd for that, it might be designed to handle the load of video display only. (If the GPU is doing a lot of the work, the CPU might not be that stressed.)

Actually, "burn the CPU up" isn't likely - Pentiums have temperature sensors, and will slow down to protect themselves if the temp gets too high. A Pentium 4 can run without a heat sink and not be damaged.

You might fry the disk and other components.

skellener
Mar 23, 2007, 02:23 PM
All of this is good news about how hackable the AppleTV is. I wonder if at some point somebody will get the XBOX 360 HD-DVD drive (or even a generic regular DVD drive) hooked up working with the AppleTV?

Rocketman
Mar 23, 2007, 02:32 PM
All of this is good news about how hackable the AppleTV is. I wonder if at some point somebody will get the XBOX 360 HD-DVD drive (or even a generic regular DVD drive) hooked up working with the AppleTV?

Since you can stream from any of 5 computers you do not actually need a bigger disc or external discs. This is wireless NAS.

You do need codecs.

Rocketman

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 02:39 PM
Check THIS out!

Check this out

Rocketman

Thanks for the info ... I think we can safely say this baby won't boot! :(

On the other hand it makes you see how much Apple can do with OS X... :)

motulist
Mar 23, 2007, 02:44 PM
Thanks for the info ... I think we can safely say this baby won't boot! :(

On the other hand it makes you see how much Apple can do with OS X... :)

Um, it does boot its native version of OS X. Do you mean it can't boot up into full OS X? If so, what specs on that list lead you to that conclusion?

hanoimac
Mar 23, 2007, 02:49 PM
I will not hack my ATV till find out WTH the USB is really for... what if next week Apple announces you can hook up extenal HD to ATV ???

dongmin
Mar 23, 2007, 02:55 PM
I did a little reading of digg this morning and those guys are mostly PC hackers with an emphasis on linux and windblows. These guys are whipping out their credit cards and buying AppleTV's by the dozens!

Some several each.

Why?

Hacked to play every major vid format and soon 5.1 audio too.

Hacked to be a router.

Hacked to be a mailserver.

Hacked to serve the content on their PC content servers via Apple TV to play their many "Apple unsupported video formats".
OR you could just build a pc box for $300...

skoorbevad
Mar 23, 2007, 02:58 PM
I will not hack my ATV till find out WTH the USB is really for... what if next week Apple announces you can hook up extenal HD to ATV ???

Won't work. The OS on the AppleTV appears to lack the appropriate IOKit to support full USB storage. For now. It might be possible to take a stock 10.4.7 install and insert the appropriate driver dependencies into the filesystem, in which case it MAY work with a patch, but it doesn't out of the box with it's current software. Several of the *.kext files are missing to support this kind of thing.

I'm still not sold on the product, but if a good homebrew scene appears and can provide a good upgrade path from something like XBMC, I may be.

willybNL
Mar 23, 2007, 03:00 PM
You've seen it comming:

"How can I install windows media center on this apple tv..."

:)

If OS X runs fully, Parallels should work.....

Someone care to set a bounty for it :P:P????

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 03:01 PM
OR you could just build a pc box for $300...

So I wonder why no enterprising Geek hasn't been successfully selling $300 home made PC boxes that do what ATV does all this time? :rolleyes:

crees!
Mar 23, 2007, 03:02 PM
I will not hack my ATV till find out WTH the USB is really for... what if next week Apple announces you can hook up extenal HD to ATV ???

Actually it's a Federal law in the US to have a USB/FW port on video hardware such as this, correct?

skoorbevad
Mar 23, 2007, 03:02 PM
You've seen it comming:

"How can I install windows media center on this apple tv..."

:)

If OS X runs fully, Parallels should work.....

Someone care to set a bounty for it :P:P????

Dothan chips do not support hardware virtualization. So, never.

Not to mention, the RAM appears soldered to the board -- put a pre-Core Duo processor in your machine and reduce the RAM to 256MB, and fire up parallels. When you stop crying, you'll see why this is a problem. ;)

Edit: As an interesting side-note, it might be remotely possible to load windows (assuming it's EFI compatible -- if the iTV even uses EFI, which presumably it must) natively with an attached parallel CDROM. AFAIK, however, Vista is the only version which might claim to support EFI, and it would choke on itself given the hardware it has to use.

killmoms
Mar 23, 2007, 03:04 PM
OR you could just build a pc box for $300...

Yeah, try to _build_ a $300 mini-ITX box that can play HD video. :rolleyes:

Why would you encourage that over money going to Apple anyway? I'm glad this is taking off thanks to the efforts of hackers—more money in Apple's pockets means more fantastic products from our favorite company.

Or are you one of MacRumors' PC trolls? :p

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 03:05 PM
Um, it does boot its native version of OS X. Do you mean it can't boot up into full OS X? If so, what specs on that list lead you to that conclusion?

Yes I meant as in boot up if the HD were attached to another Mac. I read it has no Finder as we know it thus no desktop to mount. I'd love to be able to mount via Apple Remote Desktop just to add stuff such as codecs. But with no Finder (as I understand it) that isn't going to be possible.

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 03:07 PM
Yeah, try to _build_ a $300 mini-ITX box that can play HD video. :rolleyes:

Why would you encourage that over money going to Apple anyway? I'm glad this is taking off thanks to the efforts of hackers—more money in Apple's pockets means more fantastic products from our favorite company.

Or are you one of MacRumors' PC trolls? :p

Well stated :) AAPL $150 by 2008 maybe ? :D

Doctor Q
Mar 23, 2007, 03:10 PM
A Pentium M puts out a lot of heat when the CPU is under full load - the cooling system in the iTV might not be spec'd for that, it might be designed to handle the load of video display only. (If the GPU is doing a lot of the work, the CPU might not be that stressed.)

Actually, "burn the CPU up" isn't likely - Pentiums have temperature sensors, and will slow down to protect themselves if the temp gets too high. A Pentium 4 can run without a heat sink and not be damaged.

You might fry the disk and other components.Thanks for your answer about Folding@home. But why wouldn't you have the same problems if you used your :apple:TV for hours on end for its intended purposes? Is there nothing in its feature set that taxes the CPU?

motulist
Mar 23, 2007, 03:16 PM
Yes I meant as in boot up if the HD were attached to another Mac. I read it has no Finder as we know it thus no desktop to mount. I'd love to be able to mount via Apple Remote Desktop just to add stuff such as codecs. But with no Finder (as I understand it) that isn't going to be possible.

True, but I'm sure Apple built in a system for updates. If our friendly neighborhood hackers can figure out the update system then potentially any software could be installed, including a finder. Potentially.

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 03:16 PM
Well stated :) AAPL $150 by 2008 maybe ? :D

OK guys... BIG problem with ATV. Sorry I know I have been so positive till now.

My dear wife is one of those ... not interested in technology types. can't understand why I wanted HD TV, etc. etc. etc ... never even tried to learn how to use any of our (seven last count) remotes for FiOS TV, Satellite TV, Off Air HD, Amp, DVD, DVDR, ... you know what I mean. No interest what so ever.

I can't get the damned remote back from her she learned how to use the whole interface in ten seconds flat ... she LOVES ATV!!! I want my ATV back!

AAAGGGHH! :eek:

williedigital
Mar 23, 2007, 03:17 PM
what's the deal with reference movies? you have to create a quicktime ref movie (movie.mov) for every non-standard file that you want to add to itunes and stream to the itv? is this because it wont read the .avi container or won't read divx encoded files? because i have lots of divx encoded files in the .mp4 container.

killmoms
Mar 23, 2007, 03:19 PM
what's the deal with reference movies? you have to create a quicktime ref movie (movie.mov) for every non-standard file that you want to add to itunes and stream to the itv? is this because it wont read the .avi container or won't read divx encoded files? because i have lots of divx encoded files in the .mp4 container.

It won't read the AVI container. Obviously it reads DivX files because of Perian. The reference movie is just to fool QuickTime on the Apple TV into thinking it's a QuickTime file, when it really just points back to the contents of the original AVI.

joshwest
Mar 23, 2007, 03:21 PM
Won't work. The OS on the AppleTV appears to lack the appropriate IOKit to support full USB storage. For now. It might be possible to take a stock 10.4.7 install and insert the appropriate driver dependencies into the filesystem, in which case it MAY work with a patch, but it doesn't out of the box with it's current software. Several of the *.kext files are missing to support this kind of thing.

I'm still not sold on the product, but if a good homebrew scene appears and can provide a good upgrade path from something like XBMC, I may be.


i think apple is going to becoming out with idisk's that are in the shape of apple tv and airport extreme station and be usb add on storage just watch.

skoorbevad
Mar 23, 2007, 03:25 PM
Yeah, try to _build_ a $300 mini-ITX box that can play HD video. :rolleyes:

Why would you encourage that over money going to Apple anyway? I'm glad this is taking off thanks to the efforts of hackers—more money in Apple's pockets means more fantastic products from our favorite company.

Or are you one of MacRumors' PC trolls? :p

Been done, though not in mini-ITX form (which I don't think the AppleTV is? Maybe? Unsure). See the original Xbox and XBMC, which is an incredibly mature and free product. Hardware-wise it's about half the cost and can play 720p video, but it's not really a build-your-own option, outside of the software tooling aspect.

Outside of subsidizing costs through mass-manufacturing or taking a potential profit loss on the hopes it would boost iTunes revenue, it's not likely possible, but there are other alternatives to this that arguably do a better job.

killmoms
Mar 23, 2007, 03:28 PM
Been done, though not in mini-ITX form. See the original Xbox and XBMC, which is an incredibly mature and free product. Hardware-wise it's about half the cost and can play 720p video.

Outside of subsidizing costs through mass-manufacturing or taking a potential profit loss on the hopes it would boost iTunes revenue, it's not likely possible, but there are other alternatives to this that arguably do a better job.

I said "build," not "buy a competing media extender product." Sure you could buy an original Xbox with XBMC. You could also buy a Slingbox, or any one of a number of other media extenders which compete with Apple TV. That wasn't the point in question though.

Rocketman
Mar 23, 2007, 03:30 PM
what's the deal with reference movies? you have to create a quicktime ref movie (movie.mov) for every non-standard file that you want to add to itunes and stream to the itv? is this because it wont read the .avi container or won't read divx encoded files? because i have lots of divx encoded files in the .mp4 container.

It forces the program to boot that reads Divx and other codecs. That way it is runnig alongside whatever Apple has already blessed.

Nobody has yet gotten USB to work but they have identified the resources needed. Since ATV has a software update that is not user initiated, one will have to keep an image of the "added fatures" to readd after each Apple imposed software update if it does anythig but overwrite the minimal changed things.

One user already proposed a folder with full OSX resources be aliased in the ATV resource folder, waiting to hear if that works.

Keep in mind this is all hacker stuff. The stock ATV is surprising folks with what it can do and the lowest level of "hack" is to simply install codecs so it plays for formats of files not "officially supported by Apple" due to licensing issues or elements of their contracts with production companies.

No (firewire) target disc mode. No keyboard support installed. It does do verbose logon initiated by a keyboard command and does get recognized in Remote Desktop. SSH works (user/password: frontrow/frontrow)

To ssh in you use: ssh -p 22222 frontrow@1.2.3.4
To scp stuff to it use: scp -P 22222 /path/to/localfile frontrow@1.2.3.4:/path/to/senditto

Have fun guys and whether you use it stock or do the wild thing, it seems to appeal to both the light and dark side of computer users.

Buy Apple stock. Get your women their own display device, quick, while you still have a chance.

It supports 480i.

Rocketman

SeaFox
Mar 23, 2007, 03:30 PM
Actually it's a Federal law in the US to have a USB/FW port on video hardware such as this, correct?

You're thinking of digital converter boxes for cable TV service. The difference here being:

Apple is not a cable company, so the laws do not apply to them.
The box is not a converter for cable services, it is not the only way to view iTMS purchases (since you can use your computer). But the only way to watch encrypted digital cable is with a converter box or CableCard.

killmoms
Mar 23, 2007, 03:33 PM
No (firewire) target disc mode. No keyboard support installed. It does do verbose logon initiated by a keyboard command and does get recognized in Remote Desktop. SSH works (user/password: frontrow/frontrow)

To ssh in you use: ssh -p 22222 frontrow@1.2.3.4
To scp stuff to it use: scp -P 22222 /path/to/localfile frontrow@1.2.3.4:/path/to/senditto

Wait a sec Rocketman, are you saying it supports ssh/scp login BEFORE any disassembly is required? As in, you could scp over the QuickTime Perian components without needing to open the device and attach the HD to your machine? :eek:

abadr
Mar 23, 2007, 03:47 PM
This is what I was waiting for!

Now, streamline the process a little for those of us without weekends to spare and I'll be on this like a rabid dog

skoorbevad
Mar 23, 2007, 03:49 PM
Wait a sec Rocketman, are you saying it supports ssh/scp login BEFORE any disassembly is required? As in, you could scp over the QuickTime Perian components without needing to open the device and attach the HD to your machine? :eek:

From my understanding it required the HD to be plugged into another machine to enable (or install) the OpenSSH/Dropbear software, at which point the username/password is frontrow:frontrow, which is just held in /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow (or the OSX equivalent, I know it's not quite the same).

Of course this was all on the SA-tested unit.

Rocketman
Mar 23, 2007, 03:54 PM
Wait a sec Rocketman, are you saying it supports ssh/scp login BEFORE any disassembly is required? As in, you could scp over the QuickTime Perian components without needing to open the device and attach the HD to your machine? :eek:

You have to open it and plug into the PATA plug on the drive, at least for now. The hackerboys over at somethingawful.com are working on a solution to install the desired features without breaking ATV open. They have 2-3 threads of approaches, each of which is likely to actually work. Remember this is a device designed for remote software update over wifi.

BTW there is no feature to detect if you have opened ATV to disable your warranty.

But remember in less than a day a hack has already been perfected to run all codecs on ATV and to load unapproved drivers and OSX resources onto it. Now it is a matter of makng an Apple unapproved installer for ATV that becomes widely distributed. I hear there is already a .torrent of the ATV disk image.

I am the sort of guy that uses Apple stuff stock for the most part too.

Rocketman

mrrory
Mar 23, 2007, 03:55 PM
I think the biggest flaw in this device is the surround. I can live with everything else.

Absolutely! I can't live without my surround sound!

twoodcc
Mar 23, 2007, 03:59 PM
wow, they certainly move fast!

yeah they do. dang, i'm impressed. is it a 2.5" hard drive or 3.5"?

Digitalclips
Mar 23, 2007, 04:00 PM
Absolutely! I can't live without my surround sound!

ATV is worth having even if it didn't play movies at all so why 5.1 is a deal breaker on a $299 toy is beyond me (hell a half decent iPod is more than that). If all you do is use it as a great juke box and photo projector it is great fun. Having said that I suspect the 5.1 won't be long being cracked.
Come on, give in and drive my stock up :)

killmoms
Mar 23, 2007, 04:03 PM
From my understanding it required the HD to be plugged into another machine to enable (or install) the OpenSSH/Dropbear software, at which point the username/password is frontrow:frontrow, which is just held in /etc/passwd and /etc/shadow (or the OSX equivalent, I know it's not quite the same).

Of course this was all on the SA-tested unit.

Ah, gotcha. I thought he was saying there was already SSH on default. I was pretty sure that you did HAVE to disassemble it to get that functionality.

DrEasy
Mar 23, 2007, 04:21 PM
I'm quite low-tech when it comes to TV stuff so apologies if this makes no sense at all: does :apple:TV have all the hardware necessary to be used as a PVR? I understand that it doesn't have the software (yet), but now that we're finding that it is a very hackable device, would it be possible to install something like MythTV on it, and map a network drive on it for storage (and basically streaming captured video the other way toward the computer)?

A quiet and nice looking PVR for $300, with indefinitely extensible storage (through a network drive) and the highly user-friendly Apple interface would conquer the world!

jsw
Mar 23, 2007, 04:24 PM
I'm quite low-tech when it comes to TV stuff so apologies if this makes no sense at all: does :apple:TV have all the hardware necessary to be used as a PVR?
Well, the only input is a USB port, but one could imagine adding a USB device to capture video (like the Elgato offerings), but you couldn't do so with only the Apple TV's hardware - if it had Firewire, you could imagine connecting it to cable boxes or whatnot, but, as it is, it'd need something additional for tuning and/or video/audio capture.

skoorbevad
Mar 23, 2007, 04:27 PM
I'm quite low-tech when it comes to TV stuff so apologies if this makes no sense at all: does :apple:TV have all the hardware necessary to be used as a PVR? I understand that it doesn't have the software (yet), but now that we're finding that it is a very hackable device, would it be possible to install something like MythTV on it, and map a network drive on it for storage (and basically streaming captured video the other way toward the computer)?

A quiet and nice looking PVR for $300, with indefinitely extensible storage (through a network drive) and the highly user-friendly Apple interface would conquer the world!

I'm not so sure I grasp what you're saying, and I don't have a lot of experience with MythTV, but you'd need a MythTV backend that could handle ripping the video. The AppleTV has no input for this -- unless somebody makes it work with a USB TV capture card, which is highly unlikely at this point. Even if it did work that way, it would be a rather wonky setup given the relatively slow storage contained in it and lack of any MPEG-encoding hardware which would tax the not-so-beefy processor.

If the software on the AppleTV can be fully replaced, you might be able to use it as a frontend given an appropriate OSX port exists -- I think the ideal option would be to get the AppleTV interface reading from something that isn't iTunes, first -- sort of in the way something like XBMC can just read the contents of an SMB share.

Rocketman
Mar 23, 2007, 04:34 PM
Well, the only input is a USB port,


Actually not true. It has 100BT Ethernet. It has 802.11 a/g/n wifi. USB is disabled.

Plenty can be done with ethernet and wifi.

Remember it is a store-forward device. The theory is the 50 hours of viewing it serves on the local 40GB HD is sufficient so items you view and are done with can be erased (which exist on the home computer) and replaced by newer content 24/7.

It's a good concept. I see no need for a HD upgrade and the only limit to the existing deal is codecs and those will have 3rd party installers in a few days.

If hackers are replacing their XBMC and HTPC after one day, it at least does not suck and is underpriced. :)

Rocketman

skoorbevad
Mar 23, 2007, 04:38 PM
From Awkward, one of the SA posters who's been working on this:


Okay, here are the "official" goals right now:

First priority:
Build a script that will dig through any number of arbitrary mounts (samba, nfs, etc) and find media files there and create ref movies for them. Then this script should somehow add the movies to the binary library at /mnt/Media/Media Library (unless there's a way to Applescript it through Frontrow).

Second priority:
Get ssh access without opening the box

Third priority:
Enable normal finder and get OS X semi-functional. Also continue development to try for Linux/Windows/whatever on it.

Comedy option:
Get mplayer working and build a new UI instead of frontrow

There's a lot of discussion going on in #perian on Freenode if you want to hop in.


That gives you kind of a short-term list of things that should end up happening. If it were up to me (and I had one to play with), I would make getting SSH access without opening the box priority 1. This quickly opens up your field to anyone who wants to play with it and not just thos who are brave enough to crack it.

ObsidianIce
Mar 23, 2007, 04:42 PM
ahhh, now this indeed is nice. Might have to drop $240 on this item now..and throw in a larger hard drive too:D
An interface allowing you to select anything would be nice...although I think a set up simply allowing you to connect a secondary drive would be ideal, although even better would be the ability to have it access a networked drive...but i'm getting ahead of myself...

localoid
Mar 23, 2007, 04:53 PM
... I'm glad this is taking off thanks to the efforts of hackers—more money in Apple's pockets means more fantastic products from our favorite company. ...

Heh... It was largely due to the efforts of hackers of several decades ago, who began experimenting with integrated circuit chips intended to be used only on calculators that the whole "personal computer" industry began...

Now, the fact that Apple TV might introduce hordes of new hackers to the world of Apple, OS X, etc. is what Martha Stewart would refer to as being "a good thing." :p

Rocketman
Mar 23, 2007, 04:57 PM
An interface allowing you to select anything would be nice...although I think a set up simply allowing you to connect a secondary drive would be ideal, although even better would be the ability to have it access a networked drive...but i'm getting ahead of myself...

One SH guy already figured out where and how to add items to Front Row. Kinda like adding items to your Apple menu or your browser shortcut bar.

ATV already synchs with and streams from up to 5 wireless or wired PC's or NAS out of the box. So you got your wish and didn't even realize it. That's Apple for ya . . . insanely great :)

Rocketman

theBB
Mar 23, 2007, 05:17 PM
I would make getting SSH access without opening the box priority 1. This quickly opens up your field to anyone who wants to play with it and not just thos who are brave enough to crack it.
Definitely, ssh without opening the box would be great. That would enable simple GUI based hacks for mere mortals. :)

I have only a few divx movies, I guess it would not be the end of the world to convert them, but it might take a while. A friend of mine gives me some divx encoded movies once in a while and it would be nice if I could watch them on TV without plugging a laptop. Considering the low number of legal movies in this format, I can see why Apple does not support it out of the box. (None of these movies are available in the US, so this is pretty much the only way I can access them.)

localoid
Mar 23, 2007, 05:24 PM
Definitely, ssh without opening the box would be great. That would enable simple GUI based hacks for mere mortals. :) ...

Oh come on... you know you want to... it's sitting there begging/pleading for its box to be cracked open.

When did any bad ever happen from doing so... err, except that one time with that gal named Pandora? Go 'head... do it. You know you want to! :p

localoid
Mar 23, 2007, 05:39 PM
... If it were up to me (and I had one to play with), I would make getting SSH access without opening the box priority 1. This quickly opens up your field to anyone who wants to play with it and not just thos who are brave enough to crack it.

The down side would be that if you could easily install SSH remotely (without jumping through hoops, hopefully all password protected) that would basically mean that a box (on your local network) could be easily cracked by anyone (remote) from virtually anywhere, at anytime. Not good...

DrEasy
Mar 23, 2007, 05:55 PM
Well, the only input is a USB port, but one could imagine adding a USB device to capture video (like the Elgato offerings), but you couldn't do so with only the Apple TV's hardware - if it had Firewire, you could imagine connecting it to cable boxes or whatnot, but, as it is, it'd need something additional for tuning and/or video/audio capture.
I see now, thanks! So an ideal device would be something that combines:

- the price-point and size of :apple:TV,
- the video and audio output of the :apple:TV,
- the audio/video wireless streaming software of :apple:TV,

with:

- the full OS X experience of Mac Mini (or at least the subset of it which wouldn't fry the processor),
- the integrated DVD player of Mac Mini,

with:

- the TV capture hardware and software of something like El-Gato EyeTV. If that makes this hypothetical device twice as thick, so be it. It would still be an elegant all-in-one device with no wiring hell.

with:

- DVD-ripping software,
- and the possibility of audio/video streaming from this device back to the main computer for network storage purposes. The newly stored show would then be available through FrontRow (or whatever interface is currently provided by :apple:TV).

AidenShaw
Mar 23, 2007, 06:05 PM
Thanks for your answer about Folding@home. But why wouldn't you have the same problems if you used your :apple:TV for hours on end for its intended purposes? Is there nothing in its feature set that taxes the CPU?
I'll expand on what I said earlier.

Apple knows how hot it gets playing movies, and put in a fan big enough to handle that load (and probably not much bigger, to keep it cheap and quiet).

If we assume that the GPU is doing some of the decoding, it is likely that the CPU is not at 100% all of the time.

Folding would run the CPU at 100%, which would mean possibly more heat than playing videos. Possibly more heat that the fan was designed to handle.

In other words, if the wattage used by the CPU+GPU playing movies is less than the wattage used by the CPU running Folding - then Folding could cause problems due to excessive heating.

Folding will also increase your power bill.

gnasher729
Mar 23, 2007, 06:06 PM
Now, with this, is it possible to get then 1080p support and 5.1 audio?

Amazingly, the major complaint on Slashdot is not lack of 1080p support, but missing support for the old 4:3 TV :eek:

gnasher729
Mar 23, 2007, 06:12 PM
True, but I'm sure Apple built in a system for updates. If our friendly neighborhood hackers can figure out the update system then potentially any software could be installed, including a finder. Potentially.

Importantly: ... could be installed, including a finder, _without opening the case_.

FreeState
Mar 23, 2007, 06:18 PM
Amazingly, the major complaint on Slashdot is not lack of 1080p support, but missing support for the old 4:3 TV :eek:

Guess they have not seen this page yet then:

"And yet there I was, with a 480i (that's "standard definition", what non-HD TVs have) option right in the Apple TV settings. See for yourself..."

http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/posts/Article/appleTV-2007-03-22-21-30.html#up2-2007-03-22

You just have to have component input on your TV or Receiver and it works :)

Cult Follower
Mar 23, 2007, 06:40 PM
It would be nice to have a bigger HDD, imagine the possibilities.

Yvan256
Mar 23, 2007, 06:51 PM
Oh, just go and treat yourself to a nice HD TV that's what credit cards are for ;)

I paid 3000$CAD for my 36" about 6 or 7 years ago, I'm not about to waste another 2000$CAD for a new one. I've checked around, and I'd rather spend 2000$CAD for a 37" Sharp (1080p) then 1700$CAD for a 37" Sharp (720p/1080i).

And no, I especially won't buy anything smaller since my 36" will give me a bigger picture even in widescreen, and a 32" Widescreen LCD will give me a smaller 4:3 picture.

As I said, it's a bit stupid since all it would take is a "TV ratio" setting in :apple:TV.

:p


Guess they have not seen this page yet then:

"And yet there I was, with a 480i (that's "standard definition", what non-HD TVs have) option right in the Apple TV settings. See for yourself..."

http://www.rogueamoeba.com/utm/posts/Article/appleTV-2007-03-22-21-30.html#up2-2007-03-22

You just have to have component input on your TV or Receiver and it works :)

No, it doesn't. I have a 36" CRT 4:3 that has component inputs and it can even do 480p. However the Apple TV only outputs in 16:9, you cannot switch it to 4:3. So yes "it works" but that's full-screen anamorphic content. Not the way it's supposed to be shown.

Come on Apple, if it can output in 480i, where's the 4:3 vs 16:9 setting?! :confused: :(

AaronICT
Mar 23, 2007, 07:09 PM
So how do I get my Xvid videos into iTunes so I can synch them? Right now, I've installed the codecs and Quicktime is playing my AVI files perfectly. But when I try to add them to iTunes, they are just ignored.

Am I missing a step?

theBB
Mar 23, 2007, 07:15 PM
No, it doesn't. I have a 36" CRT 4:3 that has component inputs and it can even do 480p. However the Apple TV only outputs in 16:9, you cannot switch it to 4:3. So yes "it works" but that's full-screen anamorphic content. Not the way it's supposed to be shown.

According to rogueamoeba blog, he did not suffer from image distortion, but apparently not every TV behaves the same way. Some TVs automatically recognize the widescreen image and convert to 4:3 properly.

theBB
Mar 23, 2007, 07:25 PM
So how do I get my Xvid videos into iTunes so I can synch them? Right now, I've installed the codecs and Quicktime is playing my AVI files perfectly. But when I try to add them to iTunes, they are just ignored.

Am I missing a step?
Yes. I've never done it myself, yet, but I believe you need to create something called a reference movie. It seems like it is basically a link to your AVI, but fools iTunes into thinking it is .mov file.

FreeState
Mar 23, 2007, 07:43 PM
According to rogueamoeba blog, he did not suffer from image distortion, but apparently not every TV behaves the same way. Some TVs automatically recognize the widescreen image and convert to 4:3 properly.

Also the first aftermarket connector has just appeared ($99 pre-order)

How it Works:
1. Connect your AppleTV to the converter.
2. Connect the S-Video output from the converter to the S-Video or Composite Video input on your TV.
3. Connect the power supply to the converter. The power supply is included.
4. Enjoy your AppleTV on an S-Video or regular TV.

http://www.svideo.com/appletv2tv.html

Yvan256
Mar 23, 2007, 07:59 PM
Also the first aftermarket connector has just appeared ($99 pre-order) http://www.svideo.com/appletv2tv.html

This device doesn't seem to fix the aspect ratio problem, which is the only problem I have.

This box better be able to fix the aspect ratio too, or they'll probably have a 99% return rate. :eek:

And if it does fix it, then it means I'll have to degrade my picture quality (from components to S-Video) in order to fix the aspect ratio. :(

Rocketman
Mar 23, 2007, 08:18 PM
Also the first aftermarket connector has just appeared ($99 pre-order)

How it Works:
1. Connect your AppleTV to the converter.
2. Connect the S-Video output from the converter to the S-Video or Composite Video input on your TV.
3. Connect the power supply to the converter. The power supply is included.
4. Enjoy your AppleTV on an S-Video or regular TV.

http://www.svideo.com/appletv2tv.html

http://www.showmecables.com/productDetailsPopUp.asp?idproduct=2654

musicpenguy
Mar 23, 2007, 09:10 PM
Yes you need to create a reference .mov file: here is a link for a great applescript to do this so you don't have to go through each and every one:
http://dettmer.maclab.org/movie2itunes.html

I am very excited by this now that it does avi containers!!

jsw
Mar 23, 2007, 09:34 PM
Actually not true. It has 100BT Ethernet. It has 802.11 a/g/n wifi. USB is disabled.

Plenty can be done with ethernet and wifi.
Agreed, but I'm not sure how, as the poster asked, you'd use it as a PVR. I figured you might be able to get a tuner to work via USB (disabled though it is, it obviously can be enabled), but I couldn't see any similarly inexpensive (US$100 or less) solution involving wireless or ethernet. If it had Firewire, it could have been used to record off cable boxes with what was likely just a software hack to enable something like iRecord.

imacdaddy
Mar 23, 2007, 09:54 PM
Check THIS out!

Audio (Built In):

Intel High Definition Audio:

Available Devices:
Line Out:
Connection: RCA
S/P-DIF Out:
Connection: Optical

Rocketman

This double confirms that there WILL be support for surround sound. http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/hdaudio.htm

Konradx
Mar 23, 2007, 11:18 PM
This actually makes me consider this product

trainguy77
Mar 23, 2007, 11:33 PM
Has anyone tried connecting a USB hub to the USB port. Then a intel version of os x, linux or something like that on an external hard drive. Then connect a keyboard, hold down option on the keyboard and see what happens?

localoid
Mar 24, 2007, 12:08 AM
Has anyone tried connecting a USB hub to the USB port. Then a intel version of os x, linux or something like that on an external hard drive. Then connect a keyboard, hold down option on the keyboard and see what happens?

The very fine hackers over @ SomethingAwful have already been there and done that, finding out that the option that works is apple+s but once logged into the prompt that there is no keyboard input being accepted... you can't type anything in-other-words. "Needs more com.apple.driver.AppleUSBTCKeyboard" is one of the more amusing posting from that site re: same... :p

Probably the best thing for anyone wanting to see quick progress on this hack-the-box effort (a work of hacking art, in progress) would be to establish a paypal beer/Jolt Cola fund for the SomethingAwful Gang to keep them hacking thru' the night... :D

Adobe75
Mar 24, 2007, 12:15 AM
So they got Firefox and iTunes running I see...

Once they get full USB working, just plug in your EyeTV Hybrid and fire up the EyeTV app. We'll see how well (or not) it plays HD.

Boom... DVR.

localoid
Mar 24, 2007, 12:29 AM
So they got Firefox and iTunes running I see...

Once they get full USB working, just plug in your EyeTV Hybrid and fire up the EyeTV app. We'll see how well (or not) it plays HD.

Boom... DVR.

With the rather under-powered cpu, relatively slow HD, etc. that's in it, it wouldn't be the ideal hardware to do usb capture on. However, if it's caching the stream now, it is "recording" (streams)... ;)

Edited to add: min. specs from Elgato Systems...

"720p or 1080i HD features require a Dual PowerPC G5 or an Intel Core Duo processor. Analog TV recorded via software encoder, quality depends on CPU performance."

Rocketman
Mar 24, 2007, 12:40 AM
Agreed, but I'm not sure how, as the poster asked, you'd use it as a PVR. I figured you might be able to get a tuner to work via USB (disabled though it is, it obviously can be enabled), but I couldn't see any similarly inexpensive (US$100 or less) solution involving wireless or ethernet. If it had Firewire, it could have been used to record off cable boxes with what was likely just a software hack to enable something like iRecord.

Elgato is the DVR. Apple either supports 3rd parties or writes software to put them out of business properly :)

Apple presumes a third party encoder, which "makes it not their fault" that people ARE violating copyrights :(

Rocketman

Is "personal use" a violation???? (no!)

""
18 USC 107

http://caselaw.lp.findlaw.com/scripts/ts_search.pl?title=17&sec=107

Section 107. Limitations on exclusive rights: Fair use


Notwithstanding the provisions of sections 106 and 106A, the fair
use of a copyrighted work, including such use by reproduction in
copies or phonorecords or by any other means specified by that
section, for purposes such as criticism, comment, news reporting,
teaching (including multiple copies for classroom use),
scholarship, or research, is not an infringement of copyright. In
determining whether the use made of a work in any particular case
is a fair use the factors to be considered shall include -
(1) the purpose and character of the use, including whether
such use is of a commercial nature or is for nonprofit
educational purposes;
(2) the nature of the copyrighted work;
(3) the amount and substantiality of the portion used in
relation to the copyrighted work as a whole; and
(4) the effect of the use upon the potential market for or
value of the copyrighted work.
The fact that a work is unpublished shall not itself bar a finding
of fair use if such finding is made upon consideration of all the
above factors.
""

This double confirms that there WILL be support for surround sound. http://www.intel.com/design/chipsets/hdaudio.htm

Thanks.

This actually makes me consider this product

If 4 dozen HACKERS say that, why woldn't everyone? Seriously.

Rocketman

flir67
Mar 24, 2007, 01:27 AM
If hackers are replacing their XBMC and HTPC after one day, it at least does not suck and is underpriced. :)

Rocketman


wow, if that is true , atv will really take off... now I'm considering it as I'm coming from this old bunch of techie's

hay can atv stream shout cast radio yet???? :)

localoid
Mar 24, 2007, 03:01 AM
I was honestly surprised how easy it was to hack AppleTV. They made it rather simple given it's an OSX installation and the hard drive is reachable.

I'd have thought Apple would have loaded the OS in firmware to make it somewhat harder to hack. I'm left wondering if its (high hackability level) is a result of being a gen1 product, or if its because someone decided, "Oh, what the heck? It might be interesting to see what neat stuff those who like to tinker can come up with!"

$299 for the hardware, preloaded with a seemingly almost complete ver. of) OS X? Not a bad deal.

Eidorian
Mar 24, 2007, 03:10 AM
I'd have thought Apple would have loaded the OS in firmware to make it somewhat harder to hack. I'm left wondering if its (high hackability level) is a result of being a gen1 product, or if its because someone decided, "Oh, what the heck? It might be interesting to see what neat stuff those who like to tinker can come up with!"

$299 for the hardware, preloaded with a seemingly almost complete ver. of) OS X? Not a bad deal.Yeah I thought the firmware would be a mess and cripple the hardware. The drive was easily cloned as well just using standard OS X applications! :rolleyes:

http://www.bombich.com/ <3

imacdaddy
Mar 24, 2007, 03:57 AM
Not sure if this has been posted in this thread.

There are Automator scripts for AV Capture on this thing! ...a PVR? :D

http://www.techrestore.com/2007/03/apple-tv-software.shtml

localoid
Mar 24, 2007, 05:00 AM
Not sure if this has been posted in this thread.

There are Automator scripts for AV Capture on this thing! ...a PVR? :D

http://www.techrestore.com/2007/03/apple-tv-software.shtml

I think the SomethingAwful Gang (http://forums.somethingawful.com/showthread.php?threadid=2391956&perpage=40&pagenumber=6) had posted the output from ls -FlaR earlier yesterday, but then maybe I just dreamed that! :p

dr_lha
Mar 24, 2007, 05:18 AM
Dothan chips do not support hardware virtualization. So, never.
Sorry, you're wrong. Parallels will simply use software virtualisation on a chip that doesn't support Intel VT-x. It will be a bit slower, but still work at close to native speeds. You don't need special hardware to do virtualisation. You do of course need a lot of memory!

iWizzard
Mar 24, 2007, 05:22 AM
Is there an program like Movie2iTunes for Windows?
and how will it handle 1080p movies in Mpeg4?

Digitalclips
Mar 24, 2007, 09:10 AM
This device doesn't seem to fix the aspect ratio problem, which is the only problem I have.

This box better be able to fix the aspect ratio too, or they'll probably have a 99% return rate. :eek:

And if it does fix it, then it means I'll have to degrade my picture quality (from components to S-Video) in order to fix the aspect ratio. :(

If you are running on an old CRT NTSC or PAL TV at 4:3 S-Vid is more than adequate. Heck the composite input is good enough!

This whole 'How to get a 2007 HD product to work on my old 4:3 TV' reminds me of back when color came out and all the die hard Black and White TV users complained they could not read the text on the screen since the 'greys' were too close. :rolleyes:

freddiecable
Mar 24, 2007, 01:07 PM
try handbrake - better!

Is there an program like Movie2iTunes for Windows?
and how will it handle 1080p movies in Mpeg4?

iWizzard
Mar 24, 2007, 05:17 PM
try handbrake - better!

Handbrake seam to be a encoder not a program that makes a file reference

jesteraver
Mar 25, 2007, 06:31 PM
Hopefully Apple does a revision and add a larger hard drive like 80-120 Gb. Would be a miracle if they do that by May.

Billy Boo Bob
Mar 26, 2007, 06:04 PM
It seems that most of these folks are delving into OS X for the first time, which is cool... I'd like to join in there to help with some OS X experience, but they want 10 bucks just to join the forums.

Perhaps when I have one of the machines to test things on, but for now I'll just watch from the sidelines.