PDA

View Full Version : Adobe Creative Suite 3 Announced




MacRumors
Mar 27, 2007, 01:41 AM
http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Adobe has updated their site (http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/) with information about Adobe Creative Suite 3 (CS3).
The Adobe® Creative® Suite 3 family offers you choice — in the combination of creative tools you master, the design disciplines you explore, and the richness and scope of content you create. This revolutionary new release includes six editions, each combining tightly integrated, industry-leading components that enable you to handle virtually any creative task.
A webcast (http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/launchevent/webcast/) of the live launch event will be webcast today at 3:30 pm EST. The new versions of Adobe's popular graphics applications support Intel Macs natively for the first time.

Previusly leaked price points (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/26/adobe-creative-suite-3-cs3-pricing-and-upgrades/) were generally accurate as was upgrade pricing.

With the introduction of Creative Suite 3, Adobe has introduced a new set of bundles, which can be viewed at a glance in this product matrix (http://images.macrumors.com/article/2007/03/26/matrix.png). The bundles are as follows: CS3 Design Premium, CS3 Design Standard, CS3 Web Premium, CS3 Web Standard, CS3 Production Premium, and CS3 Master Collection. More details about each bundle are detailed at Adobe's site (http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/).

Upgrade pricing is also complicated, but we've posted a consolidated table that lists your upgrade options based on what software you currently own.

Upgrade Table (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/27/adobe-creative-suite-3-announced/)



Scarlet Fever
Mar 27, 2007, 01:43 AM
i wants me some PS CS3...

cobravap
Mar 27, 2007, 01:48 AM
wooohoo the day has finally come

chrisdazzo
Mar 27, 2007, 01:48 AM
i can't wait for this. i hope my school upgrades to CS3 as well.

kbonnel
Mar 27, 2007, 01:51 AM
Now I just have to wait till mid april....

http://www.academicsuperstore.com/quick_search.html?qks=1&qk_srch=Adobe&x=0&y=0

Kimo

thevofl
Mar 27, 2007, 01:53 AM
The educational prices from the Adobe site (in US$):

CS3 Design Premium - $599
CS3 Web Premium - $499
Acrobat 8 Professional - $159
Photoshop CS3 Estended - $299
CS3 Production Premium - $599
CS3 MasteryCollection - $999
CS3 Design Standard - $399
CS3 Web Standard - $399
Dreamweaver CS3 - $199
Illustrator CS3 - $199
Flash CS3 Professional - $249
InDesign CS3 - $199
Photoshop Lightroom - $99

dornoforpyros
Mar 27, 2007, 01:57 AM
Fun stuff, $1,960 (with tax) Canadian for the web premium, damn, that's 2/3 the price of my MBP!

Oh well, at the end of the day it pays the bills

dante@sisna.com
Mar 27, 2007, 01:58 AM
Okay, Thanks MacRumors for the upgrade chart BUT what is "Adobe CS?" This is listed with the "You Own Production Suite Premium."

I assume it is just an Abbreviated "Creative Suite" -- is this right?

I am still confused: Hopefully the Adobe site will be more clear.

For instance, I own the CreativeSuite 2 Premium and The Macromedia Collection, and I am still confused as to what I can upgrade to.

Perhaps it is just too late. Time to sleep.

Regardless, thanks for the efforts.

Dante

arn
Mar 27, 2007, 02:02 AM
Okay, Thanks MacRumors for the upgrade chart BUT what is "Adobe CS?" This is listed with the "You Own Production Suite Premium."
For instance, I own the CreativeSuite 2 Premium and The Macromedia Collection, and I am still confused as to what I can upgrade to.


I fixed it. It's Adobe Creative Suite (any version).

Here's the info from Adobe's site, which might be much clearer

tristan
Mar 27, 2007, 02:02 AM
2007 will be a huge year for Apple and Adobe sales I predict.

All that's really left now to go Universal is Microsoft Office. I still run Office v.X and its got more bugs than Planet P. (Some Starship Troopers humor...)

randyharris
Mar 27, 2007, 02:04 AM
Wow, $1,800. I had no idea the high end versions of CS would sell for so much.

That comes with a Mac Pro right?

:)

Peace
Mar 27, 2007, 02:10 AM
It's looking like most apps are shipping mid-April.Just in time for those 8-core Mac Pros , Leopard and FCS and Extreme to be shown off at NAB.
.

MacMyDay
Mar 27, 2007, 02:10 AM
£1655 ($3259) for Creative Suite 3 Design Premium in England. As expected.

GFLPraxis
Mar 27, 2007, 02:21 AM
The educational prices from the Adobe site (in US$):

CS3 Design Premium - $599
CS3 Web Premium - $499
Acrobat 8 Professional - $159
Photoshop CS3 Estended - $299
CS3 Production Premium - $599
CS3 MasteryCollection - $999
CS3 Design Standard - $399
CS3 Web Standard - $399
Dreamweaver CS3 - $199
Illustrator CS3 - $199
Flash CS3 Professional - $249
InDesign CS3 - $199
Photoshop Lightroom - $99

Aw man... $599 for Production or Design? I might have to just get Photoshop :(

Shoulda bought Apple and Adobe stock yesterday.

dante@sisna.com
Mar 27, 2007, 02:25 AM
Okay, I bashed Adobe a lot on both upgrade confusion and price yesterday in the first MacRumors post regarding CS3.

Let me be ONE OF THE FIRST TO SAY: "I Stand Corrected by Adobe's Fantastic Work in CS3." I was wrong.

I just read a detailed report at http://www.MacWorld.com/ regarding what CS3 features and on the integration between all the apps and I am BLOWN away.

As I do Print, Audio, Web, Multimedia, Flash, and Video for my clients, CS3 is going to really be huge.

Master Collection for me please: luckily I quality for the $1399.00 upgrade.

Now I just need an intel mac to take advantage of all apps.

G5 Quad in perfect condition with 4.5 gig ram, dual 300 gig drives, warranty, for sale? Hate to part with it, but budget may not allow for all the production tools we need this year -- not to mention the $5K we just spent on the new HP Z3100 color proof printer.

Ouch.

Can't wait for CS3 -- Nice job Adobe -- Will be worth the cost for sure.

This is getting good.

Dante

treif
Mar 27, 2007, 02:29 AM
GoLive's dead with no upgrade path?

dante@sisna.com
Mar 27, 2007, 02:30 AM
I fixed it. It's Adobe Creative Suite (any version).

Here's the info from Adobe's site, which might be much clearer

Thanks Arn -- Yes I just saw these prices on MacWorld as well.

I must say I am really impressed with the cross app integration. If it works 75% as good as claimed it will be HUGE for my workflow.

I am lucky in that I qualify for the Master Suite Upgrade for $1,399!

Ultimately, my Clients are the Very Lucky Ones.

Now I will have to begin the separation process with my G5 Quad (which I TOTALLY LOVE -- it is the BEST MAC I have ever owned) as our budget cannot justify keeping it while also purchasing the upcoming Mac Pro Octo.

I am sure Octo will ease my pain and drain my wallet.

THANKS Arn for your hard work.

Dante

nagromme
Mar 27, 2007, 02:32 AM
This will be like getting a whole new Mac for me... just as much as if I were getting a new OS. And considering I haven't upgraded any of these apps since PS7, it will be a HUGE step forward for a cost I'm more than happy with. (Web Premium for $500, since I have Macromedia Studio bundle already.)

I appreciate the desire of many for consumer-level apps in these areas. CS3 is not that. The feature list and price points put the CS3 family firmly in the pro category. And it looks pretty good!

Maybe consumer "Elements" versions will follow.

GoLive's dead with no upgrade path?

I believe GoLive will live on as a consumer-level product--but this is about Creative Suite 3. GoLive and other consumer news will come at another time I expect.

dante@sisna.com
Mar 27, 2007, 02:35 AM
GoLive's dead with no upgrade path?

I would not make that assumption unless that is what you have read.

I would check the Adobe site for you but I have to sleep.

Good luck. It is hard when an App dies out.

I suffered this years ago as I sensed Freehand's slow death. Luckily I jumped to Illustrator at version 10, suffered through it's interface, and lived.

*** BUT I will tell you this: DREAMWEAVER is going to have some fantastic time-saving integration with PHOTOSHOP and if the AJAX feature sets works as promised THIS WILL BE the tool to use and it will be worth it to jump from GOLIVE. Painful, but worth it.

Dante

dante@sisna.com
Mar 27, 2007, 02:36 AM
This will be like getting a whole new Mac for me... just as much as if I were getting a new OS. And considering I haven't upgraded any of these apps since PS7, it will be a HUGE step forward for a cost I'm more than happy with. (Web Premium for $500, since I have Macromedia Studio bundle already.)

I appreciate the desire of many for consumer-level apps in these areas. CS3 is not that. The feature list and price points put the CS3 family firmly in the pro category. And it looks pretty good!

Maybe consumer "Elements" versions will follow.



I believe GoLive will live on as a consumer-level product--but this is about Creative Suite 3. GoLive and other consumer news will come at another time I expect.

Yah, CS2 Would Blow you Away, CS3 will really make you motivated to use these apps.

Have Fun.

Dante

dante@sisna.com
Mar 27, 2007, 02:49 AM
Adobe's site has a great "Workflow Integration Demo" area on their site -- it is up live now.

nagromme
Mar 27, 2007, 02:52 AM
This is expected, but good to see it confirmed.

A couple new apps (Premiere Pro CS3, Encore CS3, Soundbooth CS3) are Intel-ONLY, and the rest are all Universal.

"every edition of Adobe Creative Suite 3 — including Creative Suite 3 Design Premium, Design Standard, Web Premium, Web Standard, Production Premium, and Master Collection — and all the standalone Creative Suite 3 applications fully support the new Intel® based Mac computers."

vin
Mar 27, 2007, 03:10 AM
So if i'm correct Adobe CS3 Design Standard sells for $ 1199,- in the US, which would come down to € 899,-.

In Europe however, I'll have to pay € 1269,- for the same package, which translates to $ 1693,- !!!

Great. :(

pengu
Mar 27, 2007, 03:18 AM
*** BUT I will tell you this: DREAMWEAVER is going to have some fantastic time-saving integration with PHOTOSHOP and if the AJAX feature sets works as promised THIS WILL BE the tool to use and it will be worth it to jump from GOLIVE. Painful, but worth it.

you DO KNOW that photoshop is not suited to web graphics work, right? and you DO KNOW that the HTML and JavaScript that Dreamweaver creates is a complete mess, right?

dante@sisna.com
Mar 27, 2007, 03:21 AM
GoLive's dead with no upgrade path?

GoLive is Dead, Jim.

Just confirmed on Adobe Website. Could not sleep.

Follow the link below to check out the Adobe goLive to Dreamweaver CS3 Migration aid:

http://www.adobe.com/products/golive/gl2dw.html

Will be worth your pain: This new Dreamweaver looks to be a great tool.

Dante

dante@sisna.com
Mar 27, 2007, 03:28 AM
you DO KNOW that photoshop is not suited to web graphics work, right? and you DO KNOW that the HTML and JavaScript that Dreamweaver creates is a complete mess, right?

Please, my friend, I totally disagree with your logic which is years old.

I hire, build and work in this industry: to say Photoshop is not suited to web graphics is just plain wrong: it has it's raster niche right in there with Illustrator, Fireworks, and Imageready. They all fulfill a very useful purpose.

So no, you are just plain Wrong in this area.

As far as Dreamweaver goes it gets a bit more complex. Old versions of Dreamweaver were notorious for creating page editor pollution. Dreamweaver 8, with proper preferences set, is a fine tool for small sites that require a comprehensive tool for management, especially with client-side contribute integration.

To use Dreamweaver for dynamic sites is a just a wrong choice. I'll take a CMS system (and do use many) or Object-Oriented system like WebObjects, or Eclipse anyday.

But to cling to 5 year old logic that Dreamweaver makes a mess is just plain old school thinking that will put one in an unemployment line fast. I have hired, then fired, and then have watched developers with this sort of logic get re-hired by large web firms only to be TOLD to use Dreamweaver 8 as a management area for hand-written code: and this is fine.

Want Examples: Overstock Auctions, Engage Thoughtware, Carson Dellosa Publishing, Scholastic, etc, etc, etc.

It is always a bit humorous when an experienced software engineer with php/java/sql experience calls me months later, only to report that they now dance with Dreamweaver. I have no love affair with Dreamweaver, but it DOES have a solid, and USEFUL purpose.

Multimedia
Mar 27, 2007, 03:33 AM
I'll be here to watch the whole thing (http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/launchevent/webcast/). Gonna be a lof of fun seeing how much faster everything is. :)

coolfactor
Mar 27, 2007, 03:35 AM
All I can say is WOW. Adobe has done a fantastic job with this latest release, and I've only been viewing the 9 videos at their website. Fantastic! I don't have any direct use for this suite, but I can see that it's going to seriously impact many industries. Seems very well integrated and cleanly-designed. Well worth the wait!

dante@sisna.com
Mar 27, 2007, 03:37 AM
I'll be here to watch the whole thing. Gonna be a lof of fun seeing how much faster everything is. :)

Yes, Multi, Some very big claims being made -- from 60% to 400% faster on Quad Core Mac Pro versus G5 Quad.

Want to see the cast, and the review by Aris or Barefeats. I am sure this will be somewhat true.

And then there is Octo.

I better book a few extra jobs for clients . . .

where's my whiskey?:o

Multimedia
Mar 27, 2007, 04:02 AM
The educational prices from the Adobe site (in US$) (http://www.adobe.com/education/purchasing/education_pricing.html):

CS3 Design Premium - $599
CS3 Web Premium - $499
Acrobat 8 Professional - $159
Photoshop CS3 Estended - $299
CS3 Production Premium - $599
CS3 MasteryCollection - $999
CS3 Design Standard - $399
CS3 Web Standard - $399
Dreamweaver CS3 - $199
Illustrator CS3 - $199
Flash CS3 Professional - $249
InDesign CS3 - $199
Photoshop Lightroom - $99Just added the link above and here (http://www.adobe.com/education/purchasing/education_pricing.html). :) The choice list is much more extensive than above.

If you need Web Premium and Production Premium, you don't get In-Design. Looks like the Master Collection (MC) for $999 is the cheapest way to get what you want even if you don't need everything. AlaCarte a few and you're over $1k no matter how you slice it. Even if I was to try and upgrade from my NFR CS1 (which I doubt will work), the cost would be $1,400 for the MC. So the academic MC at $999 is definitely the way I'll be going.

ericschmerick
Mar 27, 2007, 04:43 AM
Wow, god I can't wait.

I'm on CS (not CS2), and so I didn't get to sample to sweet nectar of CS3 beta on my macbook (though I probably couldn't have used it because of the cursor issues). I had been using Aperture and CS on my 2.0ghz macbook w/ 2GB of ram, but it just churned and churned constantly paging to the HD. Aperture seems to be a memory hog, and CS under rosetta (maybe anything under rosetta) is also a memory hog, so it was a recipe for slowness. In fact, it was so bad I wound up switching to Lightroom, which has worked out OK and is much less of a hog than Aperture (and so reduces my page file churning).

But even still, doing much of anything significant in photoshop CS under rosetta was painful. It "feels" about on par with my old PB1.25ghz (I know it's supposed to be faster on balance, but have you tried to use the liquify tool?). On less important images I would even resort to using Lightroom's cheesy sharpening tool rather than push an image to PS just for sharpening. So even a 50% increase in speed will be very very welcome, and will push me from the realm of barely usable to fully usable. Anything more is gravy.

I can't wait. I full expect that Adobe's CS3 efforts will dominate my face.

ericschmerick
Mar 27, 2007, 04:48 AM
you DO KNOW that photoshop is not suited to web graphics work, right? and you DO KNOW that the HTML and JavaScript that Dreamweaver creates is a complete mess, right?

That's just . . . strange. A very substantial majority of the web designers I know and/or work with use PS at the very least to mock-up their site designs. And for quite some time, Dreamweaver (at least among my circles) has had the reputation as one of the best of the wysiwyg's out there.

Perhaps I'm uniformed. I a photographer, so I'm not in the best position to speak definitively. But I am surprised by the sweeping generalization that PS "is not suited to web graphics work". Certainly EVERY SINGLE TIME I prepare a photo for web use, I use PS.

murfle
Mar 27, 2007, 04:53 AM
Looks like its going to be Production Premium and Fireworks for me... I just need an 8-core Mac Pro to run it on. :D

Multimedia
Mar 27, 2007, 04:53 AM
That's just . . . strange. A very substantial majority of the web designers I know and/or work with use PS at the very least to mock-up their site designs. And for quite some time, Dreamweaver (at least among my circles) has had the reputation as one of the best of the wysiwyg's out there.

Perhaps I'm uniformed. I a photographer, so I'm not in the best position to speak definitively. But I am surprised by the sweeping generalization that PS "is not suited to web graphics work". Certainly EVERY SINGLE TIME I prepare a photo for web use, I use PS.Absolutely. At the very least we need to reduce the file size with ImageReady, I trust they've put the same file size reduction tech into PS 10 as when it's predecessors had ImageReady inside it.

rokurota
Mar 27, 2007, 04:57 AM
Hmmm, nice... The CS3 Master Collection (£410) at UK academic prices is CHEAPER than the CS3 Web Premium edition (£492). Save 80 quid and get Premiere Pro and After Effects Pro, etc free!

amac4me
Mar 27, 2007, 05:08 AM
Now we'll really be able to determine if Mac Pro sales will kick start .... especially when Apple announces revisions.

Glad to see CS3 finally released :D

Father Jack
Mar 27, 2007, 05:11 AM
Now we'll really be able to determine if Mac Pro sales will kick start .... especially when Apple announces revisions.

Glad to see CS3 finally released :D
I have my Mac Pro ....... now where is Photoshop CS3 ?? :confused:

FJ

stephenli
Mar 27, 2007, 05:23 AM
e...i am using G5 Quad
CS2, Flash 2004....
should I upgrade? will it be faster or slower?
will I be benefited after i paid $1xxx for upgrade?

Father Jack
Mar 27, 2007, 05:26 AM
Probably a tad slower, but I wouldn't think it will be all that noticeable

FJ

Fingermouse
Mar 27, 2007, 05:35 AM
I can't see any problems with the US prices... In the UK if I want the Master Collection I'll have to pay £1,444.08 to upgrade from CS2 and Studio 8. That's $2,835! I could save around $1,400 if I was in the US.

If I wasn't upgrading then the Master Collection would cost me $4,541. How can Adobe POSSIBLY justify that kind of price rise? I'll be seriously considering getting it imported from the US, as even adding on VAT and customs duty it comes nowhere near to UK prices...

Father Jack
Mar 27, 2007, 05:37 AM
I can't see any problems with the US prices... In the UK if I want the Master Collection I'll have to pay £1,444.08 to upgrade from CS2 and Studio 8. That's $2,835! I could save around $1,400 if I was in the US.

If I wasn't upgrading then the Master Collection would cost me $4,541. How can Adobe POSSIBLY justify that kind of price rise? I'll be seriously considering getting it imported from the US, as even adding on VAT and customs duty it comes nowhere near to UK prices...

Yeah ... people in our part of the world get ripped off all the time !!!:mad:

FJ

jellomizer
Mar 27, 2007, 05:46 AM
I am sure most of you guys have older versions of adobe products for most cases you will save a lot of money by get getting the upgrade. All I really ever use is Photoshop so I think it is time for an upgrade. $200 is not that bad of an upgrade price considering I had Photoshop 7 for about 4/5 years.

zeppiecr
Mar 27, 2007, 05:48 AM
Its advertised on the front of the Apple store, Creativity Optimized.

Multimedia
Mar 27, 2007, 05:49 AM
Now we'll really be able to determine if Mac Pro sales will kick start .... especially when Apple announces revisions.

Glad to see CS3 finally released :DIt's not. And Master Collection won't ship until July.

Father Jack
Mar 27, 2007, 05:57 AM
I am sure most of you guys have older versions of adobe products for most cases you will save a lot of money by get getting the upgrade. All I really ever use is Photoshop so I think it is time for an upgrade. $200 is not that bad of an upgrade price considering I had Photoshop 7 for about 4/5 years.

Not sure if you can upgrade from Photoshop 7 to CS3 :confused:

FJ

yeroen
Mar 27, 2007, 06:16 AM
What lapse of judgment at Adobe allowed this clown graphic to head up their CS3 product page:

http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/

Does anyone else find it queasy and more than a little creepy or is it just me?

murfle
Mar 27, 2007, 06:20 AM
What lapse of judgment at Adobe allowed this clown graphic to head up their CS3 product page:

http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/

Does anyone else find it queasy and more than a little creepy or is it just me?

Its not just you... I almost said "Screw it, I'm sticking with GIMP..." :D

koobcamuk
Mar 27, 2007, 06:27 AM
What lapse of judgment at Adobe allowed this clown graphic to head up their CS3 product page:

http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/

Does anyone else find it queasy and more than a little creepy or is it just me?

Bad memories of clown when I was a child.

Anyway, I just got an email from Adobe asking me to pre order. At these prices, I will get someone in the US to buy it for me then send it over.

YS2003
Mar 27, 2007, 06:43 AM
Can someone shed some lights on the upgrade policy? I checked up the upgrade eligibility at Adobe web site.

So far, I have: CS2 Standard (Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign) and MX2004 Studio (Freehand, Firework, Flash Professional, Dreamweaver).

Adobe's website says I can go for "master collection" upgrade at $1399. Does it mean I can get All of master collection software? Or, do I only get the "upgrades" on those software I currently have under CS2 Standard and MX2004 Studio Pro?

When the upgrade is done, does the old software need to be installed first and then install the new version on top of it? Or, does upgrade software take the confirmation of the existence of the previous software's install CD/DVD and only install from the new software's DVD/CD?

AlexisV
Mar 27, 2007, 06:45 AM
£1000 - £2100. I could buy a car for that.

And you have to choose between Photoshop and Illustrator OR Dreamweaver and Flash unless you want the premium editions.

People design for print AND design for web, which Adobe is happily ignoring or blatantly cashing in.

iKitten
Mar 27, 2007, 06:59 AM
Does anyone know anything about release dates? Or is it today they're jsut being *announced*?

BenRoethig
Mar 27, 2007, 07:05 AM
This is a great day for professionals. As skeptical as I was about the merger but I was dead wrong. Now if we could get a version of Photoshop elements based upon the CS3 code for us consumers/hobbyists.

_bnkr612
Mar 27, 2007, 07:06 AM
you DO KNOW that photoshop is not suited to web graphics work, right? and you DO KNOW that the HTML and JavaScript that Dreamweaver creates is a complete mess, right?

You're wrong about photoshop. I create in ps and send the artwork to fireworks to get ready for the web...

CoreWeb
Mar 27, 2007, 07:09 AM
The upgrade prices here look better than the ones yesterday! Wonderful!

Multimedia
Mar 27, 2007, 07:13 AM
Can someone shed some lights on the upgrade policy? I checked up the upgrade eligibility at Adobe web site.

So far, I have: CS2 Standard (Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign) and MX2004 Studio (Freehand, Firework, Flash Professional, Dreamweaver).

Adobe's website says I can go for "master collection" upgrade at $1399. Does it mean I can get All of master collection software? Or, do I only get the "upgrades" on those software I currently have under CS2 Standard and MX2004 Studio Pro?

When the upgrade is done, does the old software need to be installed first and then install the new version on top of it? Or, does upgrade software take the confirmation of the existence of the previous software's install CD/DVD and only install from the new software's DVD/CD?I don't know how they're going to verify you have what's required for the upgrade, but you will get the whole MC for $1399 Upgrade or $999 academic non-upgrade.

You're wrong about photoshop. I create in ps and send the artwork to fireworks to get ready for the web...So FireWorks is like ImageReady? Is that how we reduce file sizes for the web now? You're the first member I read knows this relationship. :)

YS2003
Mar 27, 2007, 07:33 AM
I don't know how they're going to verify you have what's required for the upgrade, but you will get the whole MC for $1399 Upgrade or $999 academic non-upgrade.
Does Master Collection Upgrade make your CS2 Standard and MX2004 Studio Pro to the full suites of CS3 Master Collection? I am not clear how the upgrade works.

You're wrong about photoshop. I create in ps and send the artwork to fireworks to get ready for the web...

Now we see both regular PS CS3 and PS CS3 Extended. Does PS Extended Edition have some watered-down version of Image Ready (ie. making the PS files to web friendly format and size)?

funaifdd
Mar 27, 2007, 07:39 AM
Adobe CS Web Premium CS Upgrade for Mac

Amazon UK - £513.99
Apple US Store - $499, equates to £253.95

I can 2 of these upgrades in the US for less than the price of 1 in the UK

Adobe can feck right off. Care to explain this without resorting to the usual VAT excuse??

I'll just order it in the US and ship it to one of our companies over there and then get it sent on via internal mail.

Is it any wonder people resort to piracy?

Fingermouse
Mar 27, 2007, 07:47 AM
Has anybody used Borderlinx (http://www.borderlinx.com) before? It's looking increasingly tempting to me, being in Great 'Adobe wants you to pay double' Britain...

baleensavage
Mar 27, 2007, 07:56 AM
On the whole I think this is a positive announcement deserving an whole-hearted " it's about time CS3 came out." However, two things have me frustrated/concerned.

1. "Flash now has a redesigned user interface with the same workspace panels and interface options as the other Adobe applications. In fact, this unified user interface is now consistent across Flash, Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, After Effects, and Soundbooth." So now Flash designers everywhere have an entirely new interface to deal with. Great. Count me as someone who liked the Macromedia interface setup better than the Adobe one. At least they didn't turn Dreamweaver into GoLive.

2. Why doesn't the Web standard bundle come with Photoshop? Photoshop is essential for Web design. If you want both Dreamweaver AND Photoshop, you have to buy either Design Premium or Web Premium. Talk about sticking it to the Web designers.

Oh and I agree with the previous posters. That clown is EEEEVIL!

twoodcc
Mar 27, 2007, 08:00 AM
now let's hope that apple releases something today...

Roc
Mar 27, 2007, 08:03 AM
Can someone refresh my memory please? There is no difference in the education applications than the regular apps, other than the pricing correct?

Meaning nothing has been left out on the education bundles?

Roc

failsafe1
Mar 27, 2007, 08:03 AM
Nice to see official prices. Things don't look so bad. For the cost of just a PS upgrade you can get into a full suite upgrade that is more than fair. The edu pricing is higher than in the past but doesn't seem out of line. Can't wait to get the web premium bundle and get to work.

shecky
Mar 27, 2007, 08:11 AM
Can someone refresh my memory please? There is no difference in the education applications than the regular apps, other than the pricing correct?

Meaning nothing has been left out on the education bundles?

Roc

correct. its just cheaper and you cannot upgrade from it. (you would need to buy a full version of CS4.)

NoNameBrand
Mar 27, 2007, 08:16 AM
correct. its just cheaper and you cannot upgrade from it. (you would need to buy a full version of CS4.)

I'm pretty sure you can upgrade the education versions.

nungesser
Mar 27, 2007, 08:27 AM
Thank god Adobe gave up on ImageReady and kept Fireworks part of the suite. It's such a powerful web design and prototyping tool, but hardly anybody knows about it....but the people who do tend to use it like a "secret weapon".

HOWEVER -- Adobe isn't letting people who own the Educational versions upgrade AT ALL. I can't upgrade to a non-Edu version or upgrade my CS2/Studio 8 bundle to CS3. I can either keep buying Educational or I can grab my ankles and buy the full-priced Master Suite if I want all the tools I need. Thanks for the reaming, Adobe!

shecky
Mar 27, 2007, 08:30 AM
i think what i meant to say was you cannot upgrade to it. they do not make upgrade versions of the academic software, only full.

as far as going from an academic CS3 to an upgrade of CS4 (for example) i did not know if you can do that or not.

sketchedpaper
Mar 27, 2007, 08:34 AM
i think what i meant to say was you cannot upgrade to it. they do not make upgrade versions of the academic software, only full.

as far as going from an academic CS3 to an upgrade of CS4 (for example) i did not know if you can do that or not.

I think you can. Or at least you could with previous versions. Adobe Student FAQ (http://www.adobe.com/uk/education/students/studentedition/faq.html)

My question is whether or not you can use Dreamweaver or Flash education versions for profit. I know that with previous versions, this was not allowed with the macromedia software, but was fine with the adobe software.

nungesser
Mar 27, 2007, 08:36 AM
as far as going from an academic CS3 to an upgrade of CS4 (for example) i did not know if you can do that or not.

No, you can't, unfortunately. I just checked with Adobe, and the Educational versions are not upgradable at all. You can't move from an Academic CS2 to CS3 without buying the full version.

NoNameBrand
Mar 27, 2007, 08:36 AM
i think what i meant to say was you cannot upgrade to it. they do not make upgrade versions of the academic software, only full.

as far as going from an academic CS3 to an upgrade of CS4 (for example) i did not know if you can do that or not.

I now realise there's no upgrade-academic version, but I'm interested in academic to commercial as I'm no longer a student (I have the academic version of CS Premium).

According to a FAQ (http://www.adobe.com/education/purchasing/faq.html#graduation) I just read, you can.

nungesser
Mar 27, 2007, 08:45 AM
I now realise there's no upgrade-academic version, but I'm interested in academic to commercial as I'm no longer a student (I have the academic version of CS Premium).

According to a FAQ (http://www.adobe.com/education/purchasing/faq.html#graduation) I just read, you can.

I would jump up and cheer if I can upgrade my Educational version. The guy on their Live Chat feature just told me that academic software is not eligible for any upgrades, which is different from their FAQ. I'll call Adobe and see what they say.

Roc
Mar 27, 2007, 08:46 AM
Thanks for the response and the links.

Here is what was posted at Adobe's Site:
"Student question
“What happens after I graduate? If a new version comes out that I want to buy, do I have to buy the full new retail version or can I save money and just buy the retail upgrade?”

Answer
You are able to continue to use your Education version serial number when you leave school to upgrade to future commercially priced versions if you want to, rather than having to buy the next “full” version. So you save money now while you are a student, and also after you graduate!"

Sherman Homan
Mar 27, 2007, 08:53 AM
I sure hope that Apple and Adobe are on the same page when 10.5 gets released!

zim
Mar 27, 2007, 09:06 AM
Just added the link above and here (http://www.adobe.com/education/purchasing/education_pricing.html). :) The choice list is much more extensive than above.

If you need Web Premium and Production Premium, you don't get In-Design. Looks like the Master Collection (MC) for $999 is the cheapest way to get what you want even if you don't need everything. AlaCarte a few and you're over $1k no matter how you slice it. Even if I was to try and upgrade from my NFR CS1 (which I doubt will work), the cost would be $1,400 for the MC. So the academic MC at $999 is definitely the way I'll be going.

Same here, Master Collection. I will be putting together a quote for my school this week... need to get multi user pricing, Adobe seems to be the only one advertising the academic so far. academicsuperstore has cs3 but now Master Collection.

The only issue that I see here is that the Master set comes with competing software for Final Cut Studio and I know that I am going to be expected to justify why we need two video editing applications... there is no way I am moving my work, faculties or the students from FC to Premier... we have already gone down that street once.

Oh! and one little tare at Adobe.. Adobe's online store sucks! They need to abandon the Flash store, it is slow and painful, no back arrow support, ugh!

CoreWeb
Mar 27, 2007, 09:07 AM
I sure hope that Apple and Adobe are on the same page when 10.5 gets released!

Speaking of Apple and Adobe being in cahoots... wasn't Apple also supposed to have some event today? You know, with Adobe, or shortly after/before?

bretm
Mar 27, 2007, 09:09 AM
So FireWorks is like ImageReady? Is that how we reduce file sizes for the web now? You're the first member I read knows this relationship. :)

Well, there's no need for imageready either. Who uses that? Who uses FW anymore either? People need to quit slicing up documents 2 or 3 years ago and learn a little CSS - for the sake of their site visitors.

You can optimize for the web by simply using the save for web command or whatever it's called these days. Same 2,3, or 4 way dialog for compressing web graphics.

Aeolius
Mar 27, 2007, 09:19 AM
From: http://www.adobe.com/products/golive/index.html

"...the next version of Adobe GoLive would be available as a standalone product. We expect to make this new version, Adobe GoLive 9, available in late Spring 2007 in English, French, German, and Japanese. Until then, we will continue to sell and support GoLive CS2."

I'm probably going to have to bite the bullet at learn Dreamweaver, though I loathe the non-intuitive interface and I prefer making pages in a GUI; without touching one line of source code.

zim
Mar 27, 2007, 09:25 AM
From: http://www.adobe.com/products/golive/index.html

"...the next version of Adobe GoLive would be available as a standalone product. We expect to make this new version, Adobe GoLive 9, available in late Spring 2007 in English, French, German, and Japanese. Until then, we will continue to sell and support GoLive CS2."

I'm probably going to have to bite the bullet at learn Dreamweaver, though I loathe the non-intuitive interface and I prefer making pages in a GUI; without touching one line of source code.

I wonder if it will happen. They would need to act fast on getting GoLive 9 out before people start switching over to Dreamweaver. Personally, I don't understand why they even need two web applications.. how old is this page would be my next question. If this page is from last year that maybe they changed their minds.

jaw04005
Mar 27, 2007, 09:26 AM
The EDU pricing is ridiculously high. CS3 Design Premium ($589.95) is $200 more than CS2 Premium EDU ($389.95). At least for me personally, Flash is not worth an extra $200.

CS2 Premium
Photoshop
Illustrator
InDesign
Dreamweaver
Acrobat 8.0
Bridge

CS3 Design Premium
Photoshop Extended
Illustrator
InDesign
Dreamweaver
Flash
Acrobat 8.0
Bridge

So what's the policy if you purchase CS 2.3 between now and mid-April? I can't find an "up-to-date" program like they normally offer on Adobe's Web site.

freeny
Mar 27, 2007, 09:37 AM
I just watched the 3D integration video in the Photoshop section and got a boner.

I hope there are plug-ins for Maya soon.
sor far it just looks like basic files like obj, 3ds etc...

Turkish
Mar 27, 2007, 09:39 AM
Looks good.

Except the packaging looks like a high school design class did it.

Kid Red
Mar 27, 2007, 09:42 AM
I beta tested PS CS3 and wasn't impressed. Really what like 5 new features that are worth anything? I hate the new Bridge. I will hold off as long as I can, wait for updates and feedback and see what happens.

wildmac
Mar 27, 2007, 09:42 AM
GoLive's dead with no upgrade path?

Hopefully Freehand is dead... man I hate Freehand...

The EDU pricing is ridiculously high. CS3 Design Premium ($589.95) is $200 more than CS2 Premium EDU ($389.95). At least for me personally, Flash is not worth an extra $200.

CS2 Premium
Photoshop
Illustrator
InDesign
Dreamweaver
Acrobat 8.0
Bridge

CS3 Design Premium
Photoshop Extended
Illustrator
InDesign
Dreamweaver
Flash
Acrobat 8.0
Bridge

So what's the policy if you purchase CS 2.3 between now and mid-April? I can't find an "up-to-date" program like they normally offer on Adobe's Web site.

What part of PS Extended did you not understand?... read the details before you whine...

Get CS standard and Web standard instead..

sheesh... READ people, read...

Kid Red
Mar 27, 2007, 09:45 AM
Well, there's no need for imageready either. Who uses that? Who uses FW anymore either? People need to quit slicing up documents 2 or 3 years ago and learn a little CSS - for the sake of their site visitors.

You can optimize for the web by simply using the save for web command or whatever it's called these days. Same 2,3, or 4 way dialog for compressing web graphics.

Ah, I use ImageReady. Sorry but how exactly does CSS slice up a 800x600 graphic into gifs and jpgs? Didn't think so. Just because you don't need it doesn't lower it's value to those that do. CSS isn't for slicing, optimizing images or dealing with animation frame rates, etc, it's for everything else. ImageReady handles all of that and I was told ImageReady would be included in the final CS3 release at the Adobe forums beta testing PS. We'll see if that's true.

wildmac
Mar 27, 2007, 09:45 AM
I wonder if it will happen. They would need to act fast on getting GoLive 9 out before people start switching over to Dreamweaver. Personally, I don't understand why they even need two web applications.. how old is this page would be my next question. If this page is from last year that maybe they changed their minds.

Dreamweaver is more of a pro app, GoLive will be the consumer app. Nuf said.

Well, there's no need for imageready either. Who uses that? Who uses FW anymore either? People need to quit slicing up documents 2 or 3 years ago and learn a little CSS - for the sake of their site visitors.

You can optimize for the web by simply using the save for web command or whatever it's called these days. Same 2,3, or 4 way dialog for compressing web graphics.

Agreed. Unless you need to make animated gifs, there is not much use for either app now...

Ah, I use ImageReady. Sorry but how exactly does CSS slice up a 800x600 graphic into gifs and jpgs? Didn't think so. Just because you don't need it doesn't lower it's value to those that do. CSS isn't for slicing, optimizing images or dealing with animation frame rates, etc, it's for everything else. ImageReady handles all of that and I was told ImageReady would be included in the final CS3 release at the Adobe forums beta testing PS. We'll see if that's true.

Slicing up a 800x600 image for a design is like getting out the Members-only jacket for a party. It's just not done anymore.

The needed parts of Imageready have been absorbed into PS.

The only real need with imageready or fireworks is creating animated gifs. PS will do everything else.

And you can use PS to slice if you must.

you DO KNOW that photoshop is not suited to web graphics work, right? and you DO KNOW that the HTML and JavaScript that Dreamweaver creates is a complete mess, right?

HAhahahahahahahahha...............

Yes, if you work purely in the Dreamweaver GUI, the code has some problems... BUT have YOU tried the new version yet?.. Do YOU know that this is still a problem?...

However, ANY serious web developer would never use a GUI to build a page. Everyone I know who uses Dreamweaver edits their code in the code section, bypassing the the GUI builder. And for smaller corporate sites or other stand-alone sites, the Dreamweaver/Contribute combo is great.

And EVERY web developer I know uses PS to create web graphics. If you think that Fireworks is the only web graphics app, then you need to grow beyond your box of crayons you've been using.

Photoshop can make animated gifs too.

true, but it's clumsier than in imagready... at least in CS2.

I clearly listed Photoshop Extended as part of the CS 3 Design bundle. Maybe you should read. :rolleyes: You may consider Extended and Flash worth the extra $200, but I don't. Since Extended is nothing more than Photoshop with additional plug-ins, the bulk of the extra $200 is for Flash.

But you are saying that all they added was flash, which is incorrect. Premium includes video and 3D support in PS, which it doesn't sound like you need.

And it includes Dreamweaver.

Get the standard version then. End of story.

And if you use Flash and Dreameaver, that bundle is a great deal

Order a different bundle and quit griping.

bigandy
Mar 27, 2007, 09:46 AM
Adobe CS Web Premium CS Upgrade for Mac

Amazon UK - £513.99
Apple US Store - $499, equates to £253.95

I can 2 of these upgrades in the US for less than the price of 1 in the UK

Adobe can feck right off. Care to explain this without resorting to the usual VAT excuse??

I'll just order it in the US and ship it to one of our companies over there and then get it sent on via internal mail.

Is it any wonder people resort to piracy?

The EDU pricing is ridiculously high. CS3 Design Premium ($589.95) is $200 more than CS2 Premium EDU ($389.95). At least for me personally, Flash is not worth an extra $200.


I'm shocked at the pricing for the standard products, especially when some of the EDU prices match a bit better - US$999 for the Master Suite EDU, or in the UK, £410. According to XE.com, that's US$805... :eek: it's cheaper in the UK! :D

jaw04005
Mar 27, 2007, 09:54 AM
What part of PS Extended did you not understand?... read the details before you whine...

Get CS standard and Web standard instead..

sheesh... READ people, read...

I clearly listed Photoshop Extended as part of the CS 3 Design bundle. Maybe you should read. :rolleyes: You may consider Extended and Flash worth the extra $200, but I don't. Since Extended is nothing more than Photoshop with additional plug-ins, the bulk of the extra $200 is for Flash.

zim
Mar 27, 2007, 09:55 AM
Slicing up a 800x600 image for a design is like getting out the Members-only jacket for a party. It's just not done anymore.

The needed parts of Imageready have been absorbed into PS.

The only real need with imageready or fireworks is creating animated gifs. PS will do everything else.

And you can use PS to slice if you must.

Photoshop can make animated gifs too.

macshui
Mar 27, 2007, 10:00 AM
I own a full retail version of Adobe Creative Suite for Windows. I am trying to completely exit the Windows world. I would like to purchase an upgrade version of CS3 (for Mac). Does anyone know Adobe's policy for upgrading across platforms?

wildmac
Mar 27, 2007, 10:04 AM
I own a full retail version of Adobe Creative Suite for Windows. I am trying to completely exit the Windows world. I would like to purchase an upgrade version of CS3 (for Mac). Does anyone know Adobe's policy for upgrading across platforms?

You'll need to call them and find out. There is a standard policy, but they are know to be flexible with that.

ezzie
Mar 27, 2007, 10:05 AM
I own a full retail version of Adobe Creative Suite for Windows. I am trying to completely exit the Windows world. I would like to purchase an upgrade version of CS3 (for Mac). Does anyone know Adobe's policy for upgrading across platforms?

i read this morning in the FAQ that this is not possible anymore....


Can I switch platforms when I upgrade my software to an Adobe Creative Suite 3 version?
No, you are eligible to upgrade only to a version that runs on the same platform. For example, if you own Adobe Creative Suite 2 for Windows, you are eligible to upgrade only to a Windows version of Adobe Creative Suite 3.

wildmac
Mar 27, 2007, 10:31 AM
i read this morning in the FAQ that this is not possible anymore....

But that's different that a cross-platform upgrade... best to call Adobe and find out.

thevofl
Mar 27, 2007, 10:36 AM
I teach at a community college, and I had a student enroll in my class for the sole purpose of getting educational discounts on her mac and software. It cost her $66 to enroll in my class. If I wasn't an educator, I probably would be doing the same. Although, I probably would pick a class more fun than statistics.

Konradx
Mar 27, 2007, 10:50 AM
Working for a Printing company i'll be playin around with all these programs really soon!

qrayg
Mar 27, 2007, 10:55 AM
you DO KNOW that photoshop is not suited to web graphics work, right? and you DO KNOW that the HTML and JavaScript that Dreamweaver creates is a complete mess, right?

You are entirely correct, sir. I just laughed and shook my head when I saw all of the "new" features in Dw. There's nothing new that will actually benefit professional web designers.

I was looking forward to Fw as well but all they did was cludge in the horrible Ps layer panel interface. I think it's funny that they spent so much time monkeying with the layer panel when you can create an extremely detailed project from start to finish in Fw without ever touching that panel. They are forcing the Ps way of working into Fw when it should be the other way around. Fw had it right to begin with... not Ps.

bretm
Mar 27, 2007, 11:16 AM
Ah, I use ImageReady. Sorry but how exactly does CSS slice up a 800x600 graphic into gifs and jpgs? Didn't think so. Just because you don't need it doesn't lower it's value to those that do. CSS isn't for slicing, optimizing images or dealing with animation frame rates, etc, it's for everything else. ImageReady handles all of that and I was told ImageReady would be included in the final CS3 release at the Adobe forums beta testing PS. We'll see if that's true.

I know. Good site design is more fluid and capable (via good css design) than slicing up images in imageready. And really, if you're still animating gifs in imageready, please, learn a little flash. However, ps extended has you covered in that realm with animated flash output.

For the sake of the web, stop making sites with 800x600 sliced up images and rollovers. Argh.

cr2sh
Mar 27, 2007, 11:24 AM
Today is tuesday, why can't we get a mac pro announcement while we're at it!

Westside guy
Mar 27, 2007, 11:59 AM
and you DO KNOW that the HTML and JavaScript that Dreamweaver creates is a complete mess, right?

It's hard to picture any tool that could actually do a good job generating JavaScript. I use Dreamweaver, and never even looked at that part of it. Doesn't it just have a few of the standard simple scripts - e.g. rollovers - pre-defined (That's all I can find after a quick look)?

With CSS2 being at least somewhat supported across all browsers, a lot of that "functionality" is pointless anyway. And getting at the DOM isn't going to be done with a pre-defined script.

Multimedia
Mar 27, 2007, 12:45 PM
Does Master Collection Upgrade make your CS2 Standard and MX2004 Studio Pro to the full suites of CS3 Master Collection? I am not clear how the upgrade works.Yes you get a license for all the products in whatever you upgrade TO. Makes no difference you didn't have it all before.Here is what was posted at Adobe's Site:
"Student question: What happens after I graduate? If a new version comes out that I want to buy, do I have to buy the full new retail version or can I save money and just buy the retail upgrade?

Answer: You are able to continue to use your Education version serial number when you leave school to upgrade to future commercially priced versions if you want to, rather than having to buy the next “full” version. So you save money now while you are a student, and also after you graduate!"Fantastic. So there's no downside to going academic MC for $999 as far as I can see.Same here, Master Collection. I will be putting together a quote for my school this week... need to get multi user pricing, Adobe seems to be the only one advertising the academic so far. academicsuperstore has cs3 but now Master Collection.

The only issue that I see here is that the Master set comes with competing software for Final Cut Studio and I know that I am going to be expected to justify why we need two video editing applications... there is no way I am moving my work, faculties or the students from FC to Premier... we have already gone down that street once.Just explain to everyone that Adobe pricing makes buying the MC or even the PP bundle less expensive than buying what you need ala carté.I sure hope that Apple and Adobe are on the same page when 10.5 gets released!I'm sure that's why none of this ships until after Leopard ships and that Adobe has been working to write their code for Leopard since day one. MC doesn't even ship until July — four more months from now.

bretm
Mar 27, 2007, 01:01 PM
I clearly listed Photoshop Extended as part of the CS 3 Design bundle. Maybe you should read. :rolleyes: You may consider Extended and Flash worth the extra $200, but I don't. Since Extended is nothing more than Photoshop with additional plug-ins, the bulk of the extra $200 is for Flash.

And with flash animation and video animation and 3D imaging / animation properties. I think extended is sort of melding imageready and livemotion 2 into a flash powered beast. I think it's looking pretty cool.

bretm
Mar 27, 2007, 01:05 PM
Hmmm, Apple stock is up and Adobe stock is slightly down. I'm sure Apple got a boost from the announcement of adobe intel native products. But why would adobe be down?

I just bought adobe, and I own a ton of Apple. Don't really know how to feel...

edit: btw - that's how you pay for your software and iphone! Buy their stock folks. Especially apple.

Glenny2lappies
Mar 27, 2007, 01:11 PM
Adobe CS Web Premium CS Upgrade for Mac

Amazon UK - £513.99
Apple US Store - $499, equates to £253.95

I can 2 of these upgrades in the US for less than the price of 1 in the UK

Adobe can feck right off. Care to explain this without resorting to the usual VAT excuse??

I'll just order it in the US and ship it to one of our companies over there and then get it sent on via internal mail.

Is it any wonder people resort to piracy?

Scumbags. I'm sick to death of US companies taking the piss in Europe.

For our US cousins, the price of GBP525 for the Web Premium "Upgrade" equates to US$1,032.34. That's without our VAT tax being added to that.

So you pay $500 for the upgrade, Brits pay $1032 for the same.

Screw them.

Edit:- the price is £455 = $895. Still a rip-off.

Dr.Gargoyle
Mar 27, 2007, 01:17 PM
CS3 Design Premium EDU in US - $599
CS3 Design Premium EDU in Europe - €299 (https://store2.adobe.com/cfusion/store/index.cfm?store=OLS-EDU-EU)= $399 (!!)
That is, MUCH cheaper in europe. :confused:
This is a first one for sure...

MacsAttack
Mar 27, 2007, 01:18 PM
The answer is of course simple.

Fly over to the US with your laptop (or a friend's laptop), a toothbrush, and an empty suit-case.

Buy a years supply of jeans, t-shirts, and sports shoes. Wear them all to make them suitably worn in before packing for the return trip.

Buy the Adobe upgrade of your choice. Throw away the box (keep serial number info). Install upgrade (having your own laptop helps).

Return to the UK. Nothing to declare at customs (you just had the disks with you in case you needed to install somehting - right?).

The cost of the flight is more than off-set by the savings on the upgrde and all the cash you just saved on your clothing for the next year or so. :D

MacsAttack
Mar 27, 2007, 01:19 PM
CS3 Design Premium EDU in US - $599
CS3 Design Premium EDU in Europe - €299 (https://store2.adobe.com/cfusion/store/index.cfm?store=OLS-EDU-EU)= $399 (!!)
That is, MUCH cheaper in europe. :confused:
This is a first one for sure...

Could be a typo ;)

Dr.Gargoyle
Mar 27, 2007, 01:22 PM
The answer is of course simple.

Fly over to the US with your laptop (or a friend's laptop), a toothbrush, and an empty suit-case.

Buy a years supply of jeans, t-shirts, and sports shoes. Wear them all to make them suitably worn in before packing for the return trip.

Buy the Adobe upgrade of your choice. Throw away the box (keep serial number info). Install upgrade (having your own laptop helps).

Return to the UK. Nothing to declare at customs (you just had the disks with you in case you needed to install somehting - right?).

The cost of the flight is more than off-set by the savings on the upgrde and all the cash you just saved on your clothing for the next year or so. :D
Why not make it infinitely simpler and sign up for some class at your local university and buy it at MUCH lower prices than in US?

Dr.Gargoyle
Mar 27, 2007, 01:23 PM
Could be a typo ;)
In that case the typo is all over the site. ALL the packages. MC is €499. I am buying now before they find out. :D

MacsAttack
Mar 27, 2007, 01:40 PM
Why not make it infinitely simpler and sign up for some class at your local university and buy it at MUCH lower prices than in US?

Can't use it for pro work. Says so in the licence :p

Dr.Gargoyle
Mar 27, 2007, 01:45 PM
Can't use it for pro work. Says so in the licence :p
Shecky found that wasn't true in the other Adobe thread.
wrong. you can legally use it to make money:

from the edu puchasing FAQ (http://www.adobe.com/education/purchasing/faq.html):

Professional/commercial use
Student question
"I'm very interested in buying the Education version of Adobe Creative Suite, but first I want to know if the software can be used to produce work for paying customers once I am working in the industry, or do I have to buy a different version of Creative Suite once I'm working in the industry?”

Answer
Good news! You can use Adobe Education software (any title!) to produce commercial/professional paid-for work when you leave school, or even while you are in school. In this regard, Adobe does not limit how student software is used. So students can use it to learn and to make money!

(Of course, students must agree to the terms of the End User Licensing Agreement — which appears during installation — just as every software customer must do.)

joel426
Mar 27, 2007, 01:58 PM
The price of the UK version is the same number like the US version (after VAT) woooooow, the exchange rate is 1 UK pound to 1.9 US dollar at the moment. Why Adobe keep on ripping off the UK customers like this and still get away every time????

I might just wait for Final Cut Studio 6.

failsafe1
Mar 27, 2007, 02:11 PM
Can't use it for pro work. Says so in the licence :p

I thought that also but a recent look at the FAQ on the education pricing Adobe site it clearly says you can use the edu software for commercial work while in and out of school after graduation. I found this a day ago while looking to clarify this issue on another thread.

NoNameBrand
Mar 27, 2007, 02:17 PM
I thought that also but a recent look at the FAQ on the education pricing Adobe site it clearly says you can use the edu software for commercial work while in and out of school after graduation. I found this a day ago while looking to clarify this issue on another thread.

I suspect the intent is that academics (that is, faculty) can use the education versions for academic use only, but that students who are intent on entering 'the biz' can use it for commercial work too, on the understanding that they will buy the commercial upgrades when it it is time to update.

Adobe knows that the price of admission to their software is prohibitive for students, and even for recent grads who are aiming for freelance work. Once established they'll buy the regular upgrades and be off to the races.

Of course the license doesn't say this...

failsafe1
Mar 27, 2007, 02:22 PM
I suspect the intent is that academics (that is, faculty) can use the education versions for academic use only, but that students who are intent on entering 'the biz' can use it for commercial work too, on the understanding that they will buy the commercial upgrades when it it is time to update.

Adobe knows that the price of admission to their software is prohibitive for students, and even for recent grads who are aiming for freelance work. Once established they'll buy the regular upgrades and be off to the races.

Of course the license doesn't say this...

Interesting point. I am a stickler for rules and was not going to buy the edu version so I would not have to worry about the license. But after seeing the faq's that say students can do commercial work I might be tempted. I work at a university as a pro photographer and freelance in my off time. The edu software for students is the same as faculty would be using so I would apply the same standard mentioned in the faq.

CTYankee
Mar 27, 2007, 03:15 PM
anyone get the webcast to work in safari? I can't...firefox works. Ironically enough I'm starting it and the presenter is telling us about Dreamweaver's new browser support feature that tests for compatibility.

edit...and now the video feed is bad so they are taking a break. What a folly of errors...the premier web software developer doesn't make its webcast available to much of its market (Mac users on Safari) and then has to go to muzak while the tech people figure out why the screen went wacko.

Counter
Mar 27, 2007, 03:21 PM
Don't know if all prices have been posted yet but Cancom UK is listing and taking orders on everything:

http://www.cancomuk.com/products/search.htm?match=and&name=adobe+cs3

shecky
Mar 27, 2007, 03:26 PM
a note on academic licences: apparently the Adobe product can be used for profit as mentioned before, the former macromedia product (dreamweaver and flash) cannot.

Westside guy
Mar 27, 2007, 03:45 PM
a note on academic licences: apparently the Adobe product can be used for profit as mentioned before, the former macromedia product (dreamweaver and flash) cannot.

Well I am employed by a university, and would be using the software as part of my job (assuming I do upgrade) - so no problems. :D

dante@sisna.com
Mar 27, 2007, 03:52 PM
You are entirely correct, sir. I just laughed and shook my head when I saw all of the "new" features in Dw. There's nothing new that will actually benefit professional web designers.

I was looking forward to Fw as well but all they did was cludge in the horrible Ps layer panel interface. I think it's funny that they spent so much time monkeying with the layer panel when you can create an extremely detailed project from start to finish in Fw without ever touching that panel. They are forcing the Ps way of working into Fw when it should be the other way around. Fw had it right to begin with... not Ps.

I completely disagree with your comments regarding "Dreamweaver New Features" not benefitting Pro Users and with your comments about Layer based editing being flawed.

I have been working, hiring, firing most importantly, producing, for the Print, Web, Multimedia industy -- for both large and small enterprises -- for the better part of 19 years. I have the experience to take a stand opposite yours.

For those new to these applications, know this: they are an improvement at all levels.

Multimedia
Mar 27, 2007, 04:15 PM
Wow! That Live Webcast CS3 Launch Event was awesome (http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/launchevent/webcast/). I am super excited about the CS3 Master Collection now. The Video Stuff is really great. :eek: :cool: :) Flash export from Encore is frickin' amazing! :eek: DVDs for the Web. Wow. I wonder how large a 4.3GB DVD is in Flash? Anyone have any idea? Would be super cool if it weighed in at less than 700MB 'cause you could distribute MPEG2 DVDs on Flash Video CDs. Wouldn't that be cool? :D Could mark a resurgence of the popularity of CD media and be very useful for playback on older computers with weaker processors and CD only drives.

So the new $64 question is:

How big can my DVD project be so that the Flash "DVD" export equals 700MB? Anyone know yet?

Loved the break too. Very cool.

Anyone who thinks these applications are not major evolutionary products do not know what they are writing about.

justflie
Mar 27, 2007, 04:22 PM
The webcast was great. One thing that I noticed seems to be a running theme with both the Leopard builds and other popular software products (ie Toast 8); the black/white UI theme! I think that should seal the deal that Leopard will have an updated UI reflecting this black/dark gray and white theme. It looks wonderful.

nungesser
Mar 27, 2007, 04:24 PM
Agreed. Unless you need to make animated gifs, there is not much use for either app now...

The only real need with imageready or fireworks is creating animated gifs. PS will do everything else.


I can name several of America's largest design studios who'd disagree with you! Fireworks is sort of Adobe's red-headed stepchild... most people think it's an image optimizer or an animated gif program. It does those things pretty well, but it's the perfect program for web layout and rapid design prototyping. Name another program that can switch from vector to bitmap on the fly, use Photoshop filters, and cut-and-paste vector art into Flash.

Fireworks is the design tool of choice for lots of studios, and has been my toolbox for years. I'm glad it's still around.

Multimedia
Mar 27, 2007, 04:32 PM
I can name several of America's largest design studios who'd disagree with you! Fireworks is sort of Adobe's red-headed stepchild... most people think it's an image optimizer or an animated gif program. It does those things pretty well, but it's the perfect program for web layout and rapid design prototyping. Name another program that can switch from vector to bitmap on the fly, use Photoshop filters, and cut-and-paste vector art into Flash.

Fireworks is the design tool of choice for lots of studios, and has been my toolbox for years. I'm glad it's still around.We don't have many vocal Fireworks experts here yet. Would you mind commenting on how it may replace ImageReady as the means to file size reduction from within Photoshop CS3 Extreme? Thanks.

recordprod
Mar 27, 2007, 04:33 PM
No Elements for us poor people?

:(

dante@sisna.com
Mar 27, 2007, 04:47 PM
Wow! That Live Webcast CS3 Launch Event was awesome (http://www.adobe.com/products/creativesuite/launchevent/webcast/). I am super excited about the CS3 Master Collection now. The Video Stuff is really great. :eek: :cool: :) Flash export from Encore is frickin' amazing! :eek: DVDs for the Web. Wow. I wonder how large a 4.3GB DVD is in Flash? Anyone have any idea? Would be super cool if it weighed in at less than 700MB 'cause you could distribute MPEG2 DVDs on Flash Video CDs. Wouldn't that be cool? :D Could mark a resurgence of the popularity of CD media and be very useful for playback on older computers with weaker processors and CD only drives.

Loved the break too. Very cool.

Anyone who thinks these applications are not major evolutionary products do not know what they are writing about.


Yes Multimedia -- you are totally correct when you say that "Anyone who thinks these applications are not major evolutionary products do not know what they are writing about."

If you are part of a cross-media workflow then the entire suite is a massive evolution -- from Print to Video to Flash to Internet.

My clients are very lucky. They are the true winners.

We don't have many vocal Fireworks experts here yet. Would you mind commenting on how it may replace ImageReady as the means to file size reduction from within Photoshop CS3 Extreme? Thanks.

Fireworks has excellent file size reduction, but is not as well integrated with photoshop at present as imageready is.

Fireworks provides excellent flash integration.

CTYankee
Mar 27, 2007, 04:53 PM
Can't wait to see how the new Final Cut Studio compares to the video apps from Adobe. FCP is great...but I can't help but wonder if it has left many of us casual consumer use (ie wedding video) editors in the dust (meaning that it has much more than we need) and if Premier Pro has enough to get the job done. The tight integration of the Adobe apps is great...I'll have to try it out to see if it can fill FCP's big shoes.

dante@sisna.com
Mar 27, 2007, 04:56 PM
Can't wait to see how the new Final Cut Studio compares to the video apps from Adobe. FCP is great...but I can't help but wonder if it has left many of us casual consumer use (ie wedding video) editors in the dust (meaning that it has much more than we need) and if Premier Pro has enough to get the job done. The tight integration of the Adobe apps is great...I'll have to try it out to see if it can fill FCP's big shoes.

Yes, I have been wondering this as well. It will be very useful to see the side by side comparison.

Multimedia
Mar 27, 2007, 05:10 PM
Can't wait to see how the new Final Cut Studio compares to the video apps from Adobe. FCP is great...but I can't help but wonder if it has left many of us casual consumer use (ie wedding video) editors in the dust (meaning that it has much more than we need) and if Premier Pro has enough to get the job done. The tight integration of the Adobe apps is great...I'll have to try it out to see if it can fill FCP's big shoes.I'm more interested in how the CS3 Master Collection integrates with Final Cut Studio 6 than if Premiere CS3 will replace FCS which I am 100% certain it will not. I want to know if After Effects CS3 will round trip from FCS 6 the same way it does for Premiere CS3 or not. Same goes for Photoshiop CS3 Extreme.

No way will Premiere replace FCS 6. Not a chance in Hell.

dante@sisna.com
Mar 27, 2007, 05:56 PM
I'm more interested in how the CS3 Master Collection integrates with Final Cut Studio 6 than if Premiere CS3 will replace FCS which I am 100% certain it will not. I want to know if After Effects CS3 will round trip from FCS 6 the same way it does for Premiere CS3 or not. Same goes for Photoshiop CS3 Extreme.

No way will Premiere replace FCS 6. Not a chance in Hell.

Yes, I agree FCS is amazing and owns the category.

It would be ideal if the integration is tight.

Wonder if anyone out there knows? Any speculators?

CTYankee
Mar 27, 2007, 06:20 PM
I'm more interested in how the CS3 Master Collection integrates with Final Cut Studio 6 than if Premiere CS3 will replace FCS which I am 100% certain it will not. I want to know if After Effects CS3 will round trip from FCS 6 the same way it does for Premiere CS3 or not. Same goes for Photoshiop CS3 Extreme.

No way will Premiere replace FCS 6. Not a chance in Hell.

I'm not looking for Premiere to achieve parity with FCP, but wondering if it will do what I need done for my editing which is pretty basic. However if the Adobe apps (PS Extreme and AFX namely) integrate well with FCP then I will be sticking with FCS.

After what I've seen today I'm now considering getting the Productions suite rather than just PS CS3. I need PS and can get good use out of Flash, AFX and Illustrator. For $1200 it adds a lot to my capabilities.

Mikevbf
Mar 27, 2007, 06:55 PM
MC doesn't even ship until July — four more months from now.

I just found this on Adobe's site:
http://store.adobe.com/store/en_us/popup/software/creativesuite/mastercollection/mcoffer.html

Step Up To Adobe Creative Suite 3 Master Collection Any Time!
You can purchase an edition* of Adobe Creative Suite® 3 today and then decide to move to the Adobe Creative Suite 3 Master Collection for the difference in price. For example, if you own a previous version of Adobe Creative Suite or Macromedia Studio, you can buy an upgrade to Creative Suite 3 Design Premium today for US$599†. If you later need the full power of Master Collection, you can upgrade to it for US$1,400, rather than US$1,999 (the price you would pay for moving from a previous version directly to Master Collection). To be eligible for this upgrade to Master Collection (and contrary to Section 5 of the End-User License Agreement for Master Collection), you must surrender your rights to, and license for, your original edition of Adobe Creative Suite 3 and uninstall that software

I am not sure this applies to the education version but I do not see why not.

Darkroom
Mar 27, 2007, 06:59 PM
it's interesting that the Apple online store doesn't seem to be selling Production Premium CS3, or Master Collection CS3... it's like anything to do with Premier/Soundbooth CS3 is not there (not even as stand alone products)...

CTYankee
Mar 27, 2007, 07:03 PM
so I was thinking...I NEED PS asap, but what if I buy one of the suites that has apps not due until July? Will they let you download apps as they are ready?

csista
Mar 27, 2007, 07:22 PM
I own a full retail version of Adobe Creative Suite for Windows. I am trying to completely exit the Windows world. I would like to purchase an upgrade version of CS3 (for Mac). Does anyone know Adobe's policy for upgrading across platforms?

I just took care of this last week.. Call Adobe, direct your call to sales/purchases, (number 3, I believe). Tell them you just switched to a Mac, and want to switch software. They'll have you fax a form that officially cancels your serial. Then they'll send you a brand new boxed version of the Mac software for just the price of shipping. I just converted Photoshop CS2 and Illustrator CS2 for $18, took a week from beginning to end. Best part is, my PC Illustrator was academic, and they sent me the full retail version on MAC. I very strongly recommend you do this ASAP, while they're still selling CS2. Then you can just buy the CS3 upgrade when it comes out, no problem.

ericschmerick
Mar 27, 2007, 08:49 PM
I just converted Photoshop CS2 and Illustrator CS2 for $18, took a week from beginning to end. Best part is, my PC Illustrator was academic, and they sent me the full retail version on MAC. I very strongly recommend you do this ASAP, while they're still selling CS2. Then you can just buy the CS3 upgrade when it comes out, no problem.

I second that.

I had PSCS windows ACADEMIC version, and when I bought my first mac a few years ago, I switched. Did just as the other poster said - called adobe and went through the cross-platform process. They were extremely friendly and efficient. Within a week I was up and running with a FULL VERSION of PSCS for mac.

They didn't mention that my cross-grade would take me to full version, it just turned out that way when it arrived. I wonder if this is just policy, or lack of oversight, or what. Either way, it looks like it's gonna save me a bundle when I upgrade this time, since I'm no longer eligible for academic pricing.

Multimedia
Mar 27, 2007, 09:12 PM
I just found this on Adobe's site:
http://store.adobe.com/store/en_us/popup/software/creativesuite/mastercollection/mcoffer.html

Step Up To Adobe Creative Suite 3 Master Collection Any Time!
You can purchase an edition* of Adobe Creative Suite® 3 today and then decide to move to the Adobe Creative Suite 3 Master Collection for the difference in price. For example, if you own a previous version of Adobe Creative Suite or Macromedia Studio, you can buy an upgrade to Creative Suite 3 Design Premium today for US$599†. If you later need the full power of Master Collection, you can upgrade to it for US$1,400, rather than US$1,999 (the price you would pay for moving from a previous version directly to Master Collection). To be eligible for this upgrade to Master Collection (and contrary to Section 5 of the End-User License Agreement for Master Collection), you must surrender your rights to, and license for, your original edition of Adobe Creative Suite 3 and uninstall that software

I am not sure this applies to the education version but I do not see why not.Since I qulify for an Academic version, thanks to my local community college's Digital Media Department, I want to buy the MC for $999. Looks like that offer is only for upgraders. And while I have old versions I could upgrade from, MC would cost $1,399 that route. So my plan is to buy an all new academic set of the MC for less. But I'll be phoning Adobe to make sure the same incremental purchase idea isn't applicable to academic purchases as well. :)

danvdr
Mar 27, 2007, 09:19 PM
No Elements for us poor people?

:(

I agree. Haven't seen any good info on Elements for months. I'm thinking that Adobe wants all of the the fence sitters to get the more expensive full version before bringing out the next Elements....:(

Kwill
Mar 27, 2007, 11:34 PM
GoLive's dead with no upgrade path?

Not quite... http://www.adobe.com/products/golive/index.html

Kwill
Mar 27, 2007, 11:45 PM
When Adobe released CS, it said it was not concerned with the small number of Mac users who may install CS on a laptop and desktop computer. We were given the impression Adobe would address it in a future release. Are we now going to have to purchase multiple licenses for such a scenario?

avus
Mar 28, 2007, 12:00 AM
it's interesting that the Apple online store doesn't seem to be selling Production Premium CS3, or Master Collection CS3... it's like anything to do with Premier/Soundbooth CS3 is not there (not even as stand alone products)...

Are you insinuating something sinister by Apple, or you aren't aware that Premiere/Soundbooth CS3 won't be available until July (Amazon) and Production Premium CS3 and Master Collection CS3 until the third quarter of this year...? :rolleyes:

nungesser
Mar 28, 2007, 12:41 AM
We don't have many vocal Fireworks experts here yet. Would you mind commenting on how it may replace ImageReady as the means to file size reduction from within Photoshop CS3 Extreme? Thanks.

Sure thing!

The studio I used to be creative director of adopted Fireworks as their mainstay webdesign tool after testing it against ImageReady. Fireworks consistently produced better-looking, lower-filesize JPEGs, and using their "WebSnap GIF" setting produced higher-quality, lower-filesize GIFs than ImageReady.

The other cool thing about Fireworks is that it'll open Photoshop files and retain all layers, transparency, layer effects, filters, etc. You don't have to do any file conversion... just save your Photoshop file, open in Fireworks, and export your images.

Multimedia
Mar 28, 2007, 01:01 AM
Sure thing!

The studio I used to be creative director of adopted Fireworks as their mainstay webdesign tool after testing it against ImageReady. Fireworks consistently produced better-looking, lower-filesize JPEGs, and using their "WebSnap GIF" setting produced higher-quality, lower-filesize GIFs than ImageReady.

The other cool thing about Fireworks is that it'll open Photoshop files and retain all layers, transparency, layer effects, filters, etc. You don't have to do any file conversion... just save your Photoshop file, open in Fireworks, and export your images.So that'll be the roundtrip inside PSCS3Extreme where it says "Save fro Web...". Glad to hear it from an expert. Thanks.

Does the Studio FX 2004 version of Fireworks do all that on PPC Macs. I have that version and never tried it. :eek:

mustard
Mar 28, 2007, 01:16 AM
I just ordered the Web Premium & InDesign CS3 updates from Apple.com and have a delivery date of April 25th.

Yacomo
Mar 28, 2007, 06:35 AM
The integration options they demonstrated yesterday were awesome for sure, but what I personally find way more exciting is the support for 3d content within Photoshop.

I think this will give creatives of all kinds a wealth of new possibilities. There are thousands and thousands of high-quality 3d models available out there which are currently only useful to a select few of '3d experts'....

...but suddenly every Photoshop user can easily composit them into his creations :) .

I just received a message from daz3d (http://www.daz3d.com), who create high quality 3d models for use in Poser and similar 3d applications: They will be exhibiting in the Adobe Plugin pavillion at Photoshop World in Boston next week - very interesting.

Now imagine if you could move that 3d content directly from Photoshop to Flash, or Premiere, or After Effects...:eek:

-hh
Mar 28, 2007, 06:41 AM
Yes you get a license for all the products in whatever you upgrade TO. Makes no difference you didn't have it all before.Fantastic. So there's no downside to going academic MC for $999 as far as I can see. Just explain to everyone that Adobe pricing makes buying the MC or even the PP bundle less expensive than buying what you need ala carté.

That's exactly what I did a few years ago, and saved some bucks.

But now I'm screwed, because Adobe's changed the names of the bundles and the one I bought was orphaned.

As such, while I have all of the components of one of the current bundles, I'm not eligible for that bundle's upgrade price ($400). This means that I'm stuck upgrading ala carté ($760), taking the 'sanctioned upgrade' route you mention ($900) ...or simply not upgrading everything.

The way I see it, at $900 vs $400, Adobe's effectively asking me to pay an extra $500 simply to reestablish that I do indeed have a Bundle.

The general problem that I see with the 'Sanctioned Upgrade' approach is that while it is a nice way to go from one to several Adobe products, it assumes that you only have one (1) existing licence feeding into the Bundle.

In my case, I have five (5) existing Adobe products and I get *zero* credit from Adobe for already having any more than just one in terms of "group discounts" for simultaneous multiple product upgrades.

So much for being a good customer.


-hh

nungesser
Mar 28, 2007, 06:45 AM
So that'll be the roundtrip inside PSCS3Extreme where it says "Save fro Web...". Glad to hear it from an expert. Thanks.

Does the Studio FX 2004 version of Fireworks do all that on PPC Macs. I have that version and never tried it. :eek:

Having not used PS CS3 yet, I can't say what the roundtripping entails. Not sure how Fireworks CS3 and PS CS3 work together.

FX 2004 wasn't as seamless, because when it came out, Adobe & Macromedia were still competitors. But you can open any Photoshop file with it and it'll do a very able job of keeping all your layers and effects. Barring that, save out a flat PSD and use FW to optimize it.

Deepdale
Mar 28, 2007, 07:27 AM
According to an ad placed in the Village Voice, Lynn Grillo from Adobe will be previewing CS3 at Tekserve in Manhattan on Monday, 04-16-07, from 8-10 p.m.

http://www.tekserve.com/sales/products/adobe.html

nungesser
Mar 28, 2007, 08:13 AM
OK, just got off the phone with Adobe. Turns out that yes, Academic versions of their software ARE available to upgrade to full (non-academic) versions.

Sorry for any misinformation I spread on this thread. Whoever the asshat at Adobe was who said that Academic software cannot be upgraded in any way is to blame :rolleyes:

-Alan-
Mar 28, 2007, 08:28 AM
I just took care of this last week.. Call Adobe, direct your call to sales/purchases, (number 3, I believe). Tell them you just switched to a Mac, and want to switch software. They'll have you fax a form that officially cancels your serial. Then they'll send you a brand new boxed version of the Mac software for just the price of shipping. I just converted Photoshop CS2 and Illustrator CS2 for $18, took a week from beginning to end. Best part is, my PC Illustrator was academic, and they sent me the full retail version on MAC. I very strongly recommend you do this ASAP, while they're still selling CS2. Then you can just buy the CS3 upgrade when it comes out, no problem.

Seems a bit wasteful. I plan on purchasing the Mac version upgrade when I purchase a MacPro. If my Window's Studio MX serial number doesn't work I'll then call Adobe for a new number. But I sort of doubt I'll have to. ....well, hopefully. :)

Stuttter
Mar 28, 2007, 09:34 AM
this pricing difference between the states and europe is really annoying

the upgrade to cs3 design premium is $600 (which converts to €450) but on the apple ireland site it's been priced at 1020 euro. go figure that one. more than twice the price.


:mad: :mad: :mad:

edit: adobe UK have it for € 660.00 ex VAT

Multimedia
Mar 28, 2007, 10:26 AM
That's exactly what I did a few years ago, and saved some bucks.

But now I'm screwed, because Adobe's changed the names of the bundles and the one I bought was orphaned.

As such, while I have all of the components of one of the current bundles, I'm not eligible for that bundle's upgrade price ($400). This means that I'm stuck upgrading ala carté ($760), taking the 'sanctioned upgrade' route you mention ($900) ...or simply not upgrading everything.

The way I see it, at $900 vs $400, Adobe's effectively asking me to pay an extra $500 simply to reestablish that I do indeed have a Bundle.

The general problem that I see with the 'Sanctioned Upgrade' approach is that while it is a nice way to go from one to several Adobe products, it assumes that you only have one (1) existing licence feeding into the Bundle.

In my case, I have five (5) existing Adobe products and I get *zero* credit from Adobe for already having any more than just one in terms of "group discounts" for simultaneous multiple product upgrades.

So much for being a good customer.Well I certainly wouldn't roll over and play DEAD. :eek: Get busy and start lobbying customer service, the marketing director or the the CEO if need be. Have you even phoned them to explain your situation yet? I would not give up going all the way to the CEO if necessary for a dispensation. You read like you quit before you began. :confused: :eek: :(

Mikevbf
Mar 28, 2007, 10:28 AM
So my plan is to buy an all new academic set of the MC for less. But I'll be phoning Adobe to make sure the same incremental purchase idea isn't applicable to academic purchases as well. :)

Tell me what they say because I want the academic version of MC but do not have to wait until July to get any of the Adobe software. Where did you get the July date?

CTYankee
Mar 28, 2007, 10:53 AM
Just got off the phone with Adobe and if you buy a package that contains products shipping later (Production suite or Master Collection) YOU DO NOT GET ANYTHING UNTIL IT ALL SHIPS. So you will sit around waiting while PS, Illustrator, etc are on the shelf. With the MC you can buy another suite and just pay an upsell fee later (buy a currently shipping bundle for $1199, then pay the difference for the MC once the rest of the software ships). However if like me you want the Production Premium suite then you have to wait until July to get PS.

Come on Adobe...at least provide SOME way of getting apps that are done in the meantime.

Multimedia
Mar 28, 2007, 01:23 PM
Tell me what they say because I want the academic version of MC but do not have to wait until July to get any of the Adobe software. Where did you get the July date?Turns out the phone order line is only for NON-Academic purchases and they know nothing about academic pricing. They said ask your academic dealer. At this point, I think just ordering the MC for $999 is cheaper than any upgrade path I can see. Depends on what you want. For me, there is no one package that contains all I want and as soon as I add a second package or even the applications missing from the one set I would most use, it's more than $999. Plus as CTYankee points out above, the Production Premium that I would use most often doesn't ship until the MC ships in July anyway.

So looks like a lot of us will be adding CS3 to our arsenal LAST after eventhing else, both new hardware and Leopard is shipping. My GUESS is they want to tweak the video stuff for Leopard before they ship it which is why it won't go Gold until July after they can test everything with the release 10.5.0 version.

Daschund
Mar 28, 2007, 02:46 PM
I tried to find it on the site and through the thread, but wasn't able to... Is there an availability date yet? For Photoshop at least?

princealfie
Mar 28, 2007, 02:57 PM
My goodness is $650 worth it for PS CS3?

Multimedia
Mar 28, 2007, 03:04 PM
I tried to find it on the site and through the thread, but wasn't able to... Is there an availability date yet? For Photoshop at least?Early orders say April 25.

Daschund
Mar 28, 2007, 03:23 PM
Early orders say April 25.

Gosh... One month still? And I thought that I was going to be able to play with it over the weekend... :-(

Multimedia
Mar 28, 2007, 03:32 PM
Gosh... One month still? And I thought that I was going to be able to play with it over the weekend... :-(Yeah and if you think that's bad, how would you like to be a Master Collector like me having to wait almost 4 more months? :eek: :rolleyes: :( That's one third of a year more. Talk about a pre-announcement. :rolleyes:

Daschund
Mar 28, 2007, 06:35 PM
Yeah and if you think that's bad, how would you like to be a Master Collector like me having to wait almost 4 more months? :eek: :rolleyes: :( That's one third of a year more. Talk about a pre-announcement. :rolleyes:

Yeah... That's what I call "premature specification"... :mad:

oldwatery
Mar 28, 2007, 11:16 PM
My CS3 Web Premium is ordered and shipping on the 25th April....
twiddle thumbs.....twiddle thumbs........;)

Kingsly
Mar 28, 2007, 11:18 PM
What!!!! No Adobe CS3 Web/Design Suite Premium Ultimate Edition? :confused:

I will never buy from them. :mad:


:p :D

(Is Adobe going Microsoft on us with all these editions? :rolleyes: )

oldwatery
Mar 28, 2007, 11:37 PM
What!!!! No Adobe CS3 Web/Design Suite Premium Ultimate Edition? :confused:

I will never buy from them. :mad:


:p :D

(Is Adobe going Microsoft on us with all these editions? :rolleyes: )

Funny :D

But seriously there should have been a Web/Design Premium edition (if there had to be so many in the first place).

The design ed left out Fireworks and the Web ed dumped InDesign.
I use 'em both so had to do an upgrade on InDesign as well as a Web Premium Edition upgrade:(
Kinda weird.

Kingsly
Mar 29, 2007, 02:09 AM
Funny :D

But seriously there should have been a Web/Design Premium edition (if there had to be so many in the first place).

The design ed left out Fireworks and the Web ed dumped InDesign.
I use 'em both so had to do an upgrade on InDesign as well as a Web Premium Edition upgrade:(
Kinda weird.

All these editions are supposed to make it easy for the customer to get the right one... unfortunately, as in your case, it just confuses things. :o

Here's a novel iDea (:p ): Sell Photoshop. Sell Illustrator. Sell Dreamweaver, etc. INDIVIDUALLY!!!! :D

dcr
Mar 29, 2007, 03:22 AM
Here's a novel iDea (:p ): Sell Photoshop. Sell Illustrator. Sell Dreamweaver, etc. INDIVIDUALLY!!!! :D

uh, they do.

DigitalAx
Mar 29, 2007, 03:31 AM
uh, they do.

Word. A better idea would have been to let us pick and choose the products we want and then give a % discount based on the number of products you purchase. A build-your-own bundle type program.

Of course that would mean less profit for them as they couldn't make you buy products you didn't need.

But I did have the same thought about Microsoft as soon as I saw all the different versions.

And -HH, have you ordered over the phone from them, or only by web? I usually call and order from Adobe (and formerly Macromedia) because they can sometimes offer discounts not found online, and they are much more willing to assist with bundling, such as your case. I'd be willing to bet money that a rep will OK you buying the upgrade and then give you a proper serial number to use when prompted for the past version key. They did something very similar with me when I bought Studio 8.

Kingsly
Mar 29, 2007, 11:20 AM
uh, they do.

My point being drop the magic packs altogether. All they do (well, to me anyway) is confuse me and make me download GIMP. :rolleyes: :o

dannyallen34
Mar 29, 2007, 11:43 AM
Has anyone checked out the Student Licensing Option page?

http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/openoptions/student.html

$500 for the Master Collection. Luckily, my university is a CLP member. I think I'll get one master collection for my PC and one for my Mac... only $1000!

kitki83
Mar 29, 2007, 12:42 PM
Has anyone checked out the Student Licensing Option page?

http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/openoptions/student.html

$500 for the Master Collection. Luckily, my university is a CLP member. I think I'll get one master collection for my PC and one for my Mac... only $1000!

I am looking for a site that lets me see that but as far as I can tell no one is selling MC for $500.

Anyone got academic websites that offer more incentive?

dannyallen34
Mar 29, 2007, 12:48 PM
I am looking for a site that lets me see that but as far as I can tell no one is selling MC for $500.

Anyone got academic websites that offer more incentive?
I don't think there are any websites that sell that. Only members of Adobe's CLP program can sell it for that price. I know that my university is a member so they can sell it for $500 at the campus computer store.

All the other websites (and ebay) will be selling it for $999, but if your university is a CLP member, then you can get it directly from the university for $500.

kitki83
Mar 29, 2007, 12:55 PM
I don't think there are any websites that sell that. Only members of Adobe's CLP program can sell it for that price. I know that my university is a member so they can sell it for $500 at the campus computer store.

All the other websites (and ebay) will be selling it for $999, but if your university is a CLP member, then you can get it directly from the university for $500.

Ohh thanks for the information now to find out if my university is CLP member
I am looking at Adobe website about that.

Mikevbf
Mar 29, 2007, 01:20 PM
Turns out the phone order line is only for NON-Academic purchases and they know nothing about academic pricing. They said ask your academic dealer. At this point, I think just ordering the MC for $999 is cheaper than any upgrade path I can see.

I went to the acdemic section of adobe's site and it seems they offer an upgrade path within the academic line of software to MC. If so you could buy something like the web premium for $500 in April and then upgrade to MC for another $500 in July. Not sure about this, but I think that is how it would work. The only thing casting doubt on this scheme is when you click the upgrade to MC button on the academeic site, they still give the non academic upgrade example. Tell me if you get anything definitive on this. I will tell you if I do.

Cooknn
Mar 29, 2007, 01:37 PM
Back in '03 when I bought my Mac I qualified for Adobe Creative Suite Academic. I just got off the phone with Adobe sales. They quoted me the upgrade price of $599 for CS3 Design Premium. Seemed like a good deal to me so I placed my order. Woot!

dannyallen34
Mar 29, 2007, 02:44 PM
Ohh thanks for the information now to find out if my university is CLP member
I am looking at Adobe website about that.

I'm not sure if Adobe's website has that info. Go talk to your campus computer store and see because that's the only way I found out.

jaw04005
Mar 29, 2007, 03:45 PM
I went to the acdemic section of adobe's site and it seems they offer an upgrade path within the academic line of software to MC. If so you could buy something like the web premium for $500 in April and then upgrade to MC for another $500 in July. Not sure about this, but I think that is how it would work. The only thing casting doubt on this scheme is when you click the upgrade to MC button on the academeic site, they still give the non academic upgrade example. Tell me if you get anything definitive on this. I will tell you if I do.

I just received the following response from Academic Superstore relating to your post.

"At this time, we are unaware of any upgrades that are being offered for any of the design bundles to the Masters Edition."

Apparently, no academic "upsell" to MC upgrade exists currently.

Mikevbf
Mar 29, 2007, 05:42 PM
I just received the following response from Academic Superstore relating to your post.

"At this time, we are unaware of any upgrades that are being offered for any of the design bundles to the Masters Edition."

Apparently, no academic "upsell" to MC upgrade exists currently.

thanks jaw

kitki83
Mar 29, 2007, 05:50 PM
I just received the following response from Academic Superstore relating to your post.

"At this time, we are unaware of any upgrades that are being offered for any of the design bundles to the Masters Edition."

Apparently, no academic "upsell" to MC upgrade exists currently.


Academic Superstore is selling MC? I never saw it on their site. It seems they are only selling what is really gonna release next month, or am I wrong?

jaw04005
Mar 29, 2007, 08:26 PM
Academic Superstore is selling MC? I never saw it on their site. It seems they are only selling what is really gonna release next month, or am I wrong?

Yes, they are offering the Master Collection for both Windows and Mac for pre-order. Do a search for "Creative Suite" on their Web site. Ships "Late June."

mjstew33
Mar 29, 2007, 08:31 PM
Right now, I'm using CS3 Beta and it's a helluva lot faster than CS2, obviously...

I can hold out for Photoshop, but the thing I really want, is Dreamweaver. Dreamweaver is s l o w on in Intel Macs. :(

EDIT:

Wow, long time passed. My 4,000th post!

GanleyBurger
Mar 30, 2007, 01:26 AM
I'm just glad this caused Apple to put new images on the Apple store page.

Thank goodness. Something new and exciting besides the iphone and AppleTV :)

Well.... I'm not crazy about the pretty rainbow packaging...

mkwilson68
Mar 30, 2007, 06:33 AM
As everyone is now becoming aware, the UK pricing is more than double the US pricing (at least on upgrades).

We have 6 copies to upgrade - it will save about £2500 to upgrade in the US.

Does anyone know if there are likely to be any restrictions on the software this time - i.e. territory restrictions?

I cannot for the life of me understand why Adobe is being this stupid - all I've heard from freelance friends so far is "I'll get a hacked version when they appear" - if the upgrade was £300 as it is in the US (versus £700 in the UK) they would get *so* much more income: they're effectively encouraging many people to go the illegal route.

We'll buy our copies in the US, get a free holiday, and Adobe will make not a penny more from us as a result - how can that be a good idea???

sdds
Mar 30, 2007, 06:52 AM
I cannot for the life of me understand why Adobe is being this stupid - all I've heard from freelance friends so far is "I'll get a hacked version when they appear" - if the upgrade was £300 as it is in the US (versus £700 in the UK) they would get *so* much more income: they're effectively encouraging many people to go the illegal route.

We'll buy our copies in the US, get a free holiday, and Adobe will make not a penny more from us as a result - how can that be a good idea???

My thoughts exactly. They can try to counter piracy with activation crap as much as they want, they'll never keep piratez from hacking their license enforcement.

Meanwhile where are the so called advantages of more strict licensing control? Have the prices come down? No. Do they offer more flexible licenses (can you say "floating licenses"?)? No. So, Adobe where is that incentive that makes me want to actually buy your software and not pirate it?

deeml
Mar 30, 2007, 12:07 PM
I was so happy when Adobe announced the launch of their new CS3 line of products!

With new products comes new pricing... fair enough. However, prices for the same product (i.e. the mac design upgrade from CS2) go from 599$ for an upgrade in the US to 880$ in Switzerland, the worse being 1'380 $ for the UK or France... not fair enough!

Prices in Europe have always been a little higher, but 230% is pushing it!

I have started a petition (http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/fair-pricing-for-european-software.html) to ask for fair pricing. Once I have gathered enough signatures, I will communicate this petition to Adobe and to the European/Swiss commissions of competition.

For a comparison, please checkout this website: http://www.amanwithapencil.com/adobe.html

In the meantime, if you can, don't purchase the upgrade, it's the best pressure we can have...

Thanks for helping us get heard!

DigitalAx
Mar 30, 2007, 12:51 PM
Since you decided to double post this, I'll double post my refutation of your logic.


Prices in Europe have always been a little higher, but 230% is pushing it!

For a comparison, please checkout this website: http://www.amanwithapencil.com/adobe.html


In the U.S., Design Premium CS3 costs $1,799.00. In the U.K., Design Premium costs £1,409.00. Your complaint is that this is the equivalent of $2,763.

Here's why that's faulty logic:

According to http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk the average salary for a graphic designer in the U.K. is £36,076. According to http://www.salary.com the average salary for a graphic designer in the U.S. is $43,452.

The U.S. dollar equates to essentially 1/2£s (it's actually .51 right now). This means that the average U.K. graphic designer makes $70,737 U.S. dollars a year.


U.S. $36,076/$1,799 - 4.99% of annual salary
U.K. $70,737/$2,763 - 2.19% of annual salary

Relative to income, CS3 costs LESS in the U.K. than in the U.S..

People always get caught up in the exchange rates, but the truth is, once you earn and spend your money within a country, you find that the income/expense levels are pretty much the same. Sure a £ is worth more globally, but everything also costs more globally as well. It's all a matter of perspective.

psingh01
Mar 30, 2007, 12:58 PM
I don't want to encourage piracy, but Adobe's pricing has made me go from 99.9% that would purchase a license for photoshop to 100% that I will NOT. Adobe you did a fine job in keep someone from becoming a happy customer :mad:

failsafe1
Mar 30, 2007, 01:03 PM
I don't want to encourage piracy, but Adobe's pricing has made me go from 99.9% that would purchase a license for photoshop to 100% that I will NOT. Adobe you did a fine job in keep someone from becoming a happy customer :mad:


Are you encouraging a boycott or stealing? Boycotts are great. Thankfully there are alternatives to Adobe, some good or at least usable. It would be nice to have more options at lower prices. I only want 5 programs but cannot pick and choose those programs. I have to get a bundle that includes things I either don't want or need.

DigitalAx
Mar 30, 2007, 01:10 PM
I don't want to encourage piracy, but Adobe's pricing has made me go from 99.9% that would purchase a license for photoshop to 100% that I will NOT. Adobe you did a fine job in keep someone from becoming a happy customer :mad:

Photoshop CS3 upgrade is $200...that's pretty much in line with what the previous versions have launched at. CS2 upgrade right now is $150.

Nothing's really changed price-wise, so why the moaning about some injustice? It has set the bar in the industry, and generates millions of dollars in revenue for Adobe's clients (including me). I think that's a small price to pay.

If you can't afford the latest version, don't buy the latest version. Hell, Photoshop 6 is still a very capable program, and quite cheap.

MacsAttack
Mar 30, 2007, 01:46 PM
Since you decided to double post this, I'll double post my refutation of your logic.



In the U.S., Design Premium CS3 costs $1,799.00. In the U.K., Design Premium costs £1,409.00. Your complaint is that this is the equivalent of $2,763.

Here's why that's faulty logic:

According to http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk the average salary for a graphic designer in the U.K. is £36,076. According to http://www.salary.com the average salary for a graphic designer in the U.S. is $43,452.

The U.S. dollar equates to essentially 1/2£s (it's actually .51 right now). This means that the average U.K. graphic designer makes $70,737 U.S. dollars a year.


U.S. $36,076/$1,799 - 4.99% of annual salary
U.K. $70,737/$2,763 - 2.19% of annual salary

Relative to income, CS3 costs LESS in the U.K. than in the U.S..

People always get caught up in the exchange rates, but the truth is, once you earn and spend your money within a country, you find that the income/expense levels are pretty much the same. Sure a £ is worth more globally, but everything also costs more globally as well. It's all a matter of perspective.

Bogus logic.

Let us look as one of the books I worked on shal we???

http://www.studio2publishing.com/shop/product_info.php?cPath=22_68&products_id=2189&osCsid=6f5bebb8ce3d8a9bea06695512382edc

In the US that is $39.99

In the UK

http://www.leisuregames.com/acatalog/Main_Catalogue_Battletech__FanPro__46.html

£22.99 (or $45.26)

But... that $45.26 is after 17.5% VAT ($39.99 + 17.5% = $46.99)

No reason Adobe could not charge approximatly the same for US and UK markets. Now some of the other countries have to pay more for the extra developemtn effort required for their native language versions, but who cares about them...:D

I should point out that the company producing that game is a US-based subsidiary of a European company. Most of their printing is done in the US (with a few exceptions where it is done in Thailand) - so you can't argue that lower prices are due to it being a "European" product.

MacsAttack
Mar 30, 2007, 01:53 PM
If you can't afford the latest version, don't buy the latest version.

Sure... All the Mac users really love the idea of using Rosseta to get their work done...

Adobe are going to rake it in on CS3. They have to. Half their customer base is just not going to touch CS4 unless Apple switch to yet another processor architecture within the next two or three years.

Why am I being forced to buy Acrobat? I didn't need it (OS X PDF support gets the job done), but now I am being gouged with an extra £200 on the upgrade because I "have" to get it.

DigitalAx
Mar 30, 2007, 01:55 PM
Adobe is in a unique position of selling a large suit of software that is the lifeblood of their clients' business. I could sell a logo for $50 of $50,000 depending on the client and how they're going to use that image. The tools they're selling return more revenue and thus should cost an appropriate amount more.

Now, the way I see it, Adobe could charge nearly double what they already are in the UK and still be justified. Brits are just used to getting American products for less than we do and are upset that this has a little more relative scale applied to it. ;)

DigitalAx
Mar 30, 2007, 01:57 PM
Sure... All the Mac users really love the idea of using Rosseta to get their work done...

Adobe are going to rake it in on CS3. They have to. Half their customer base is just not going to touch CS4 unless Apple switch to yet another processor architecture within the next two or three years.

Why am I being forced to buy Acrobat? I didn't need it (OS X PDF support gets the job done), but now I am being gouged with an extra £200 on the upgrade because I "have" to get it.

You'll never hear me arguing in favor of their bundling process. I absolutely believe we should be able to build our own bundle and get a % discount based on how many products you buy.

MacsAttack
Mar 30, 2007, 02:11 PM
Adobe is in a unique position of selling a large suit of software that is the lifeblood of their clients' business. I could sell a logo for $50 of $50,000 depending on the client and how they're going to use that image. The tools they're selling return more revenue and thus should cost an appropriate amount more.

Now, the way I see it, Adobe could charge nearly double what they already are in the UK and still be justified. Brits are just used to getting American products for less than we do and are upset that this has a little more relative scale applied to it. ;)

********

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rip-Off_Britain

mkwilson68
Apr 1, 2007, 05:45 AM
Since you decided to double post this, I'll double post my refutation of your logic.



In the U.S., Design Premium CS3 costs $1,799.00. In the U.K., Design Premium costs £1,409.00. Your complaint is that this is the equivalent of $2,763.

Here's why that's faulty logic:

According to http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk the average salary for a graphic designer in the U.K. is £36,076. According to http://www.salary.com the average salary for a graphic designer in the U.S. is $43,452.

The U.S. dollar equates to essentially 1/2£s (it's actually .51 right now). This means that the average U.K. graphic designer makes $70,737 U.S. dollars a year.


U.S. $36,076/$1,799 - 4.99% of annual salary
U.K. $70,737/$2,763 - 2.19% of annual salary

Relative to income, CS3 costs LESS in the U.K. than in the U.S..

People always get caught up in the exchange rates, but the truth is, once you earn and spend your money within a country, you find that the income/expense levels are pretty much the same. Sure a £ is worth more globally, but everything also costs more globally as well. It's all a matter of perspective.

Sorry - this just doesn't stack up at all. Why? Because you're viewing this on the basis of individuals only. Try factoring in all the other expenses a *business* has (80% of designers are employed in the UK, not freelance) then re-do your maths. US design companies are generally much more profitable than UK ones (in margin terms). Guess why? Lower operational costs. If we pitch against a US agency, the overall budgets are generally the same in terms of absolute value in one currency or the other.

Most copies of CS3 will be bought *by* companies *for* individuals, and I see no reason why companies in the UK should be forced to pay such a premium for exactly the same product. Well, Adobe, it's simple. We just won't.

Oh, and Apple, it looks like we won't be upgrading those G5's for a while now either...

gogojuice
Apr 1, 2007, 10:38 AM
Having been over there this makes me laugh at bit. (I'm not being sarcastic btw).

I like the fact that you said UK makes more. Ok I can live with that assumtion based on your mathematics. But lets take the biggest other factor you missed. The COL. (COST OF LIVING). Ie gas, housing, food etc... I was going to through taxes in there, but everyone is taxed to death lol.

Most things are cheaper by far in the states when you do the conversions. So really even though the UK may make more, their COL is much higher and must be taken into account.

Cheers

DigitalAx
Apr 1, 2007, 10:43 AM
mkwilson68, Indeed, my numbers are based on an individual, and based on my research of moving to Scotland in the near future.

I have not taken the companies into consideration because I assumed a blanket theory...could you explain why the absolute value operational costs are the same in the UK? I am genuinely interested.


gogojuice, do really want to debate COL including taxes and free university? Do you know what the average person here pays for university? And Medical Expenses? (At least I know these are covered in Scotland, not sure about the rest of the UK).

AlexisV
Apr 1, 2007, 04:15 PM
The logic that the software price should reflect what a certain demographic of a certain percentage of the customer base earns is bizarre.

By that logic tractors for example should cost less in France and Spain than in the UK or America because farmers in these countries get given larger subsidies from the EU.

DigitalAx
Apr 1, 2007, 04:51 PM
The logic that the software price should reflect what a certain demographic of a certain percentage of the customer base earns is bizarre.

By that logic tractors for example should cost less in France and Spain than in the UK or America because farmers in these countries get given larger subsidies from the EU.

Are you aware that the Gov here pays farmers for crops that will never be used? And yeah, it depends on how you look at it. If they are made in the U.S. then the absolute value may very well be less in another country where there's less profit margin because then there's less demand....

Daschund
Apr 1, 2007, 04:53 PM
The logic that the software price should reflect what a certain demographic of a certain percentage of the customer base earns is bizarre.

By that logic tractors for example should cost less in France and Spain than in the UK or America because farmers in these countries get given larger subsidies from the EU.

And by this logic Adobe products should cost here in Brazil about half of what they cost in the US, because we make absolutely NO money here compared to both the US and UK. Still, they cost about three times what they cost there in the US.

Daschund

DigitalAx
Apr 1, 2007, 05:15 PM
And by this logic Adobe products should cost here in Brazil about half of what they cost in the US, because we make absolutely NO money here compared to both the US and UK. Still, they cost about three times what they cost there in the US.

Daschund

Have they announced prices for Brazil yet?

popelife
Apr 1, 2007, 08:11 PM
According to http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk the average salary for a graphic designer in the U.K. is £36,076.

How did they come up with that as an average? I know very few graphic designers getting paid that much, even in the London area. Just look thru the media jobs listings and see how much you can get. You'll find very little that pays more than £25k.

Everyone and their wife thinks they're a graphic designer/web designer now. 99% of clients place no value on good design. They just want it done cheap. And if you won't do it cheap, there's always some other idiot with a Mac and a pirated copy of Quark/Dreamweaver who will.

(make that a pirated copy of CS3! At these prices I expect the CS3 apps to become the most pirated mac apps in the UK)

P

DigitalAx
Apr 1, 2007, 08:27 PM
Everyone and their wife thinks they're a graphic designer/web designer now. 99% of clients place no value on good design. They just want it done cheap. And if you won't do it cheap, there's always some other idiot with a Mac and a pirated copy of Quark/Dreamweaver who will.

P

That, my friend, is a global problem. It is quite frustrating.

Shagrat
Apr 2, 2007, 02:56 AM
see story here (http://news.com.com/Adobe+suite+costs+nearly+twice+as+much+in+U.K.+as+in+U.S./2100-1012_3-6172066.html?tag=nefd.pulse)...

designers in the UK earn twice as much as in the States??????

C'mon!

Glenny2lappies
Apr 2, 2007, 05:58 AM
It's obvious that Adobe are exploiting their dominant position. It's patently anti-competitive (people in Europe can't buy from the 'States).

When MS did this the EU reacted by fining them the largest amount ever - $2M/day!

I wonder how much Adobe will get? OK, it may take some time, but revenge is a dish best served cold. But the sooner the better.

Glenny2lappies
Apr 2, 2007, 06:11 AM
According to http://www.itjobswatch.co.uk the average salary for a graphic designer in the U.K. is £36,076. According to http://www.salary.com the average salary for a graphic designer in the U.S. is $43,452.

The U.S. dollar equates to essentially 1/2£s (it's actually .51 right now). This means that the average U.K. graphic designer makes $70,737 U.S. dollars a year.


U.S. $36,076/$1,799 - 4.99% of annual salary
U.K. $70,737/$2,763 - 2.19% of annual salary

Relative to income, CS3 costs LESS in the U.K. than in the U.S.

So, the average US designer salary is $36k. That's as true in major cities as in hicksville? In the states you have more land; the UK and Europe is more urban where prices are *much* higher.

Average cost of a house in the UK =£220K = $430K. What's the average cost in the States?

What about comparing taxes, e.g. take-home pay? Also there's VAT at 17.5% on all transactions (higher in Europe) - in the 'States you pay 6ish percent (or none in some states), purchasing on-line avoids this tax.

Please, the logic is flawed and will result in a pointless discussion about statistics.

Lets simplify things; the cost of production is identical. Apart from a small distribution overhead the prices should be fairly similar. We live in the age of the internet, so why should we not choose to get our goods from anywhere - I do this regularly with DVDs & CDs (another x2 hike).

A 200% mark-up is taking the piss big time.

popelife
Apr 2, 2007, 07:55 AM
That, my friend, is a global problem. It is quite frustrating.

Yep. My point being that it's not easy for designers to make good money. £36,000 is a pretty respectable wage in any industry in the UK, and fairly unheard of in the graphics industry. So where they got that average salary beats me. When you have the pick of each year's design graduates, and can pay them £20,000 or less, there'd have to be a damn good reason to pay someone £36,000 or more.

(It's a universal rule - any career that looks glamorous or artistic is also likely to be the least well-paid.)

Self-employed designers typically have it even worse. They're the ones that are going to be hit hardest by this upgrade.

Yet the cost of living in the UK is huge. Have you seen our house prices?

So any arguments that designers in the UK have more money to spend are, as we Brits like to say, "rubbish".

Blue Velvet
Apr 2, 2007, 08:01 AM
Yep. My point being that it's not easy for designers to make good money. £36,000 is a pretty respectable wage in any industry in the UK, and fairly unheard of in the graphics industry.


I would disagree... ;)

When you get into senior positions that involve substantial client and print management, then those sorts of salaries are common.

popelife
Apr 2, 2007, 08:33 AM
I would disagree... ;)

When you get into senior positions that involve substantial client and print management, then those sorts of salaries are common.

Yes, but the proportion of designers in those kind of positions is tiny compared to the vast number working much more dead-end positions for crummy money. Unless there are a lot of designers out there making city-trader salaries, I find it hard to believe the average income in the industry is £36,000.

I guess it depends who this website polled to get that average. I suspect it wasn't a particularly representative sample.

Most designers I know would spit their coffee over their desk (and immediately demand a raise) if I told them the average income for their job was £36,000.

shecky
Apr 2, 2007, 08:41 AM
Yes, but the proportion of designers in those kind of positions is tiny compared to the vast number working much more dead-end positions for crummy money. Unless there are a lot of designers out there making city-trader salaries, I find it hard to believe the average income in the industry is £36,000.

you do not start there but you can get there pretty quickly. its not uncommon at all.

http://www5.designersalaries.com/aigaaquent/Home.form

once you start getting into senior designer/art director positions that number gets attainable pretty easily.

DigitalAx
Apr 2, 2007, 09:32 AM
So, the average US designer salary is $36k. That's as true in major cities as in hicksville? In the states you have more land; the UK and Europe is more urban where prices are *much* higher.

Actually, yeah it's pretty well distributed. in "hicksville" (we have a lot of that here, gotta be more specific) a salary would probably be around 20-25k, whereas in a major urban the salary would start at 30k for a junior position, and go up indefinitely depending on the company. In an average urban area, the average graphic designer makes around 40k.

What about comparing taxes, e.g. take-home pay? Also there's VAT at 17.5% on all transactions (higher in Europe) - in the 'States you pay 6ish percent (or none in some states), purchasing on-line avoids this tax.

I don't think you really want to start this argument considering the free university and health care you benefit from as a result of the taxes (at least I know it is in Scotland, not sure about the rest of the UK) And I don't know anywhere where the tax is as low as 6%. It starts out at around 8 and goes up depending on the state, then you have income tax which for middle income and above is at least 30%, then you have property taxes...it goes on and on.

Glenny2lappies
Apr 2, 2007, 12:15 PM
don't think you really want to start this argument considering the free university and health care you benefit from as a result of the taxes (at least I know it is in Scotland, not sure about the rest of the UK)...

I'll go with that! It's really difficult to compare like with like when looking at incomes and expenditures. My beef is simply that I hate being targeted to pay more, particularly in this age of the internet and where the products are identical.

As an aside, take a car - Jaguar? - it'll be about twice the price in the UK as in the States; despite the additional cost of shipping to the States.

This is one of the reasons the Brits are so sensitive to this; all suppliers like to take the piss and there's a general move to get consumers to do something about it by hitting them where it hurts. In the case of cars it's difficult as the manufacturers will do all they can to obfuscate the price. Adobe can't obfuscate their products; CS3 is identical in the States and the UK.

CS3 is about twice the price in the UK for no other reason than because Adobe think they can hike their prices and get away with it.

popelife
Apr 2, 2007, 01:14 PM
you do not start there but you can get there pretty quickly. its not uncommon at all.

http://www5.designersalaries.com/aigaaquent/Home.form

once you start getting into senior designer/art director positions that number gets attainable pretty easily.

Alright. So I used that website, selected "Senior Designer" and got their results for every North American city they list, and the result for "Outside North America".

The lowest median salary by a big margin was for Outside North America, at $40,000. (a little over £20,000)

The results for North America ranged from $50,000 (Minneapolis, and Denver) to $70,700 (San Francisco)

So, once again, explain to me how easy it is to make £36,000 or more (getting on for $70,000) as a designer in the UK?

I'm not saying it's not possible - I know some well-paid designers here in London, and they tend to move in circles where everyone else is well paid. So they may be under the illusion that everyone gets that kind of money. I'm just saying that for the majority of "designers" in the UK, working for printers, small provincial design houses, company in-house design departments, getting paid anything much over £30,000 is a dream. There are way more dead end jobs in UK design than there are well-paid ones. Only a minority ever attain the dizzying heights of "art director".

Blue Velvet
Apr 2, 2007, 01:43 PM
I'm not saying it's not possible - I know some well-paid designers here in London, and they tend to move in circles where everyone else is well paid.



Let me share a small secret. I'm a crap designer... pretty average, really. However, what I also do get paid for is production: managing a complex folio of work, managing multiple large projects at once, managing freelancers, managing a large amount of print buying and managing a bunch of Macs.

So, to get paid what I get paid, is more to do with a broader set of skills than designing... you know how much actual designing I did today? Probably about an hour or two's worth. The rest was meetings, phone calls, speccing work and taking briefs. Not glamorous but responsible to a lot of people...

Glenny2lappies
Apr 2, 2007, 04:29 PM
...what I also do get paid for is production: managing a complex folio of work, managing multiple large projects at once, managing freelancers, managing a large amount of print buying and managing a bunch of Macs....

Isn't that a design manager as opposed to a designer? Much like a sales manager and a salesman where the manager will do some sales, but the majority of time is spent managing people and expectations, etc.

Managers do earn more to reflect their enhanced responsibilities and risks.

I guess we've all missed the other aspect; freelance designers. That would be interesting to compare. In my experience they can expect between £200 and £500 per day with around £250/day being more common (juniors probably less although I rarely deal with them). Obviously this depends upon specialities, length of the job, and skills. I'm not sure how this compares with other people's experiences and that in the 'States?

DigitalAx
Apr 2, 2007, 04:37 PM
I'm not sure how this compares with other people's experiences and that in the 'States?

£200 and £500 per day would be roughly $400 to $1,000 a day or $100k to $250k per year....you'd be hard pressed to find many freelancers making that much money freelancing. That works out to about $50-$125 an hour...while designers may charge that, they're generally not working 40 hours a week at that rate.

I don't personally know a freelancer making more than $40k, but I live in a small urban area, not huge like NYC or LA.

Blue Velvet
Apr 2, 2007, 11:29 PM
Isn't that a design manager as opposed to a designer?


So you would think... anyway, that's what I do on some days, but today I'm just designing. Working at home, away from the phone calls and meetings, working on two projects.