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View Full Version : Gaming: "hard-core" vs "casual", "ludology" vs "narratology"


BoyBach
Mar 30, 2007, 03:04 PM
I'm starting this thread so that I can continue a discussion without 'thread-jacking' an existing discussion (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=292101) - and hopefully it can stay out of another thread (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=287244)!

...

I'm after your thoughts and theories about what exactly constitutes being a "hard-core" game(r) or "casual" game(r):

Is it the genre that you play? How regularly you play? The number of gaming platforms/games you own or have owned? The number of games that you have played? The length of time that you've been 'gaming'?

Do games have to be all about 'fun' and/or 'enjoyment'. Or do they need tell a story to be engaging? Do they need 'structure' and 'goals' or can they be 'open' and 'endless'?

Or are there just 'games' and people who play them ('gamers')?

What do you think?

PlaceofDis
Mar 30, 2007, 03:15 PM
1. i would define a 'hardcore' gamer as someone who devotes a lot of time to playing, but also has an obvious passion and desire to play and excel at it.

2. games should be fun. period. Fun is subjective and so you can't expect everyone to agree, some people will prefer open ended games, some will prefer narratives. etc.

AoWolf
Mar 30, 2007, 03:23 PM
1. i would define a 'hardcore' gamer as someone who devotes a lot of time to playing, but also has an obvious passion and desire to play and excel at it.

2. games should be fun. period. Fun is subjective and so you can't expect everyone to agree, some people will prefer open ended games, some will prefer narratives. etc.


People find fun in different ways.For example one of my friends in wow gets his fun from playing with his core group of friends. Thats fine but it doesn't do it for me, I get my fun out of being in the best guild on the server and absolutely obliterating noobs in pvp.

I would consider myself hardcore simply because I spend 10+ hours a day playing games and I am good at it.

PlaceofDis
Mar 30, 2007, 03:26 PM
People find fun in different ways.For example one of my friends in wow gets his fun from playing with his core group of friends. Thats fine but it doesn't do it for me, I get my fun out of being in the best guild on the server and absolutely obliterating noobs in pvp.

I would consider myself hardcore simply because I spend 10+ hours a day playing games and I am good at it.

exactly. all i'm trying to say is that games should be fun. but not everyone is going to agree on a universal method/game/genre/whatever that is fun. its a personal opinion.

BoyBach
Mar 30, 2007, 03:30 PM
1. i would define a 'hardcore' gamer as someone who devotes a lot of time to playing, but also has an obvious passion and desire to play and excel at it.


Does the genre or gaming platform make someone more or less "hard-core"?

For example, someone who plays Japanese imports of 2D shoot 'em ups on a Sega Saturn for a couple of hours a week, compared to someone who plays the latest FPS on the a new console for hours a day. Who is "hard-core"? The first or second person? Both?

zelmo
Mar 30, 2007, 03:33 PM
I had all three consoles last gen, and now have all three consoles this gen, plus a DS, PSP, and GBA. I own around 90 games currently. I do not consider myself hardcore. I only play maybe 3 or 4 times a week, for about 6-8 hours altogether. I think most H[ard] gamers would scoff at me and call me a poseur.:rolleyes:
OTOH, I don't think of myself as a casual gamer, because I really enjoy games and they are one of my primary activities outside of work. I subscribe to three gaming mags and read them cover to cover each month, plus spend time in the gaming forum here and read some game-centric web sites for current news. None of that is indicative of a casual gamer to me.

Can't I just be a gamer?

EDIT: Okay, I can admit to waiting in line at launch for a PS2 [10 hours], a Wii [8 hours] and a PSP [2 hours]. I still don't think that makes me hardcore. It just makes me a little bit sad and pathetic.:p

atszyman
Mar 30, 2007, 03:36 PM
I'm going to chime in that "hardcore" is primarily defined by how long/often you play and what you would give up/postpone to get some more time in. I consider myself quite casual in the gaming area. I manage to get an hour or two in on most nights and only sacrifice a little sleep to do so. I wait until the family is in bed, and if I weren't playing games I'd be doing something else, like posting here. I maybe give up 0.5-1 hour of sleep a night to play "a little more."

If you're managing to get in 3+ hours on every weeknight (assuming you work full time) and more time on weekends, and would rather stay home and play than go out into the real world. If you've done all-nighters on a game, or waited more than 4 hours in line for a game or console I'd classify you as hardcore. Genre has very little to do with it, as does the number of platforms or preferred platform these are just the means to get your fix.

ChrisK018
Mar 30, 2007, 03:46 PM
I'm a binge gamer. Every once in a while a games comes out that I play for hours on end, but in between I only play a few hours total a week.

psychofreak
Mar 30, 2007, 03:50 PM
I was a hard core Halo 2-er, and I mean seriously hardcore...now I am less than casual, and I barely play games apart from at the houses of friends...

Jasonbot
Mar 30, 2007, 04:14 PM
So If Im just a n00b and I'm always a n00b even tough I spend 24/7 on xbox live or halflife deathmatch. Then am I still a noob? Or do you get such a thing as a hardcore n00b-tht doesnt seem possible:eek:

zap2
Mar 30, 2007, 04:37 PM
I had all three consoles last gen, and now have all three consoles this gen, plus a DS, PSP, and GBA. I own around 90 games currently. I do not consider myself hardcore. I only play maybe 3 or 4 times a week, for about 6-8 hours altogether. I think most H[ard] gamers would scoff at me and call me a poseur.:rolleyes:
OTOH, I don't think of myself as a casual gamer, because I really enjoy games and they are one of my primary activities outside of work. I subscribe to three gaming mags and read them cover to cover each month, plus spend time in the gaming forum here and read some game-centric web sites for current news. None of that is indicative of a casual gamer to me.

Can't I just be a gamer?

EDIT: Okay, I can admit to waiting in line at launch for a PS2 [10 hours], a Wii [8 hours] and a PSP [2 hours]. I still don't think that makes me hardcore. It just makes me a little bit sad and pathetic.:p


All system? Maybe your just rich;)


But I think you might be a hardcore gamer...all the systems(did you have a dreamcast?)


Hardcore gamers play alot, think about gaming alot, know all the gaming news before it happens, camps out for system, always get the system on launch day,ect.

Types of game don't really matter, but I doubt you'll see someone who only plays Wii Sports camping out for the system((just an example, I love Wii Sports).

mrgreen4242
Mar 30, 2007, 04:58 PM
It's a combination of both how often you play and how many different/new games you play, imo. For example, I have relatives who play one or two games obsessively. One's a Puzzle Pirate addict, one played seriously 25,000 games of Snood, one plays Yahoo Games! Pinochle all the time, etc. They easily put in more hours of gaming a week/month than I do, but those are the only games they play, hardly hardcore.

I play lots of different types of games, and many different titles, but I play them very infrequently and I never buy a system until it has had at least one price drop... so again hardly hardcore.

But, if you play a lot and get lots of new games there's a good chance you are "hardcore".

risc
Mar 30, 2007, 05:11 PM
If you sacrifice school or work for gaming you're hardcore. No wait you may just be an idiot.

A hardcore gamer is nothing more than a teenager without a GF.

EM87
Mar 30, 2007, 07:03 PM
Hardcore: Has all three next gen systems already and plays pretty much any game, also has a 1080p TV. They play a game from start to finish the day they get it. They most likely have a gaming PC as well. Gaming is their life and they take it very seriously.

Casual: Has maybe one or two of the next gen systems and plays well known games like Halo, GTA etc. They don't take gaming too seriously.

Thats my thoughts on what a hardcore and casual gamer are.

sb58
Mar 30, 2007, 08:52 PM
the difference between hardcore and casual imo is the amount they devote to video games. personally, i would kinda consider myself hardcore, since even now i'm playing WoW and God of War II at the same time.

zap2
Mar 30, 2007, 09:12 PM
the difference between hardcore and casual imo is the amount they devote to video games. personally, i would kinda consider myself hardcore, since even now i'm playing WoW and God of War II at the same time.

You got God of War 2?

Edit-Your using your PS2?

sb58
Mar 30, 2007, 09:43 PM
You got God of War 2?

Edit-Your using your PS2?

Offtopic, yeah Sam gave it to me for my birthday. Its a great game.

zap2
Mar 30, 2007, 09:51 PM
Offtopic, yeah Sam gave it to me for my birthday. Its a great game.

That what I hear..she asked me what for her to get you...did you get GoW?

sb58
Mar 30, 2007, 10:12 PM
That what I hear..she asked me what for her to get you...did you get GoW?
not yet. parents might have gotten me it.
i told her to get me God of War II too :P

zap2
Mar 30, 2007, 10:13 PM
not yet. parents might have gotten me it.
i told her to get me God of War II too :P

Oh..good call

Xeem
Mar 31, 2007, 12:49 AM
I would say you aren't a hardcore gamer unless you understand every word of every episode of Pure Pwnage. I'm not saying that this makes you a true gamer, just that it should come naturally. Anyone that invests a great deal of time and passion into competitive games other than MMORPGs can be hardcore in my opinion. WoW is a great game, and I do play it, but it definitely isn't in the hardcore category.

BoyBach
Mar 31, 2007, 05:22 AM
So the dominant idea of "hard-core" appears to be how long someone spends playing regardless of machine and/or genre.

Does this 'rule' also apply to people who spend hours everyday playing only Windows Solitaire or online poker games or Mahjong, etc?

psychofreak
Mar 31, 2007, 06:27 AM
So the dominant idea of "hard-core" appears to be how long someone spends playing regardless of machine and/or genre.

Does this 'rule' also apply to people who spend hours everyday playing only Windows Solitaire or online poker games or Mahjong, etc?
I spent A LOT of time on Minesweeper, but I did not miss it when I was away from it...while I got a craving for Halo 2 in my addiction period, when I considered myself hardcore...

The most hardcore are those who develop a small muscle between their thumb and forefinger...a friend did this with counter-strike and someone had this happen from card throwing....one of the reasons I sold my Halo 2 disk was that this bump just looked weird..

takao
Mar 31, 2007, 06:34 AM
i would say the thing about spending lots of time on games is pretty much spot on
the only thing i would add is perhaps "following the games scene closly"


also think it has to do something with timing and age ... for example if a 15 year old comes along saying that he is a hardcore CS player i chuckle along after all i _stopped_ playing CS before it even was released, since i didn't like the direction they were taking


for me a game doesn't really need a story.. i personally actually dislike games where you are too much "on rails" story wise ... i enjoy games where i can achieve goals by "my way" much more ... you know i like my games like games and not like movies.. if i want to see a movie i watch a movie and don't play a Video game

that's why i installed steel panthers again together with the civilization versions, silent hunter 2/3, il-2 etc.

while i would like to like some games out there which get 9 .0 + review i often find them boring simply because it forces you through some story _too hard_

tominated
Mar 31, 2007, 07:10 AM
hardcore: this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gkCbWDeapAo&eurl=http%3A%2F%2Foghc%2Eblogspot%2Ecom%2F).
casual: someone who likes a go every now and then

Dont Hurt Me
Mar 31, 2007, 07:55 AM
I think there is some middle ground, many people fall between the two in my view. I myself feel like I do. I like simulators and fps but dont have a liquid cooled dual video card monster machine though I need much more then integrated graphics offer. 7600 clas gpu's are perfect fo me. Medium core gamer? Its like calling every democrat a liberal, its just not so same goes with gamers. I bet many here at Rumors are medium cored.:D More then casual,less then hard.

psychofreak
Mar 31, 2007, 08:06 AM
Hardcore: Has all three next gen systems already and plays pretty much any game, also has a 1080p TV. They play a game from start to finish the day they get it. They most likely have a gaming PC as well. Gaming is their life and they take it very seriously.


NO WAY. There are hardcore PC-only gamers, and hardcore console gamers who don't play wii because it doesn't fit their needs...

sikkinixx
Mar 31, 2007, 10:19 AM
But I think you might be a hardcore gamer...all the systems(did you have a dreamcast?)

Hardcore gamers play alot, think about gaming alot, know all the gaming news before it happens, camps out for system, always get the system on launch day,ect.

Types of game don't really matter, but I doubt you'll see someone who only plays Wii Sports camping out for the system((just an example, I love Wii Sports).

Agreed.

I think of myself as a 'hardcore' gamer since I own all this gens systems, all the handhelds plus all the past gens up to NES (no virtual boy or Sega CD tho :( )and I am the one who tells all my friends "wow, this new game just got announced, looks pretty sweet" 8 months before most people even know what the hell it is. However, it doesn't run my life, like I don't get home and play games till bed and I have no problems not playing for a few days if I am busy with other things. PS3 broke my string of launch day buys (PSP,360, Wii.....a month later PS3 DAMN IT!) so maybe im not 'core enough...

I think a 'hardcore' gamer should be someone very into the industry, reads a lot about games and companies, etc. knows what is going on in the gaming world, someone who plays a good amount, likes to have a variety of games/systems (money permitting obviously). I don't consider people who only have 360 and hates everything else 'hardcore' gamers, more just 360 gamers. And people who do nothing but play games all day with 25k achievement points....they are 'diehard' gamers. :D

theman5725
Mar 31, 2007, 11:27 AM
I don't really consider myself hardcore, but not casual either. I read a lot of gaming news, own 2 current-gen consoles (360, wii) and spend a fair amount of time playing games. It isn't to the point where I sacrifice my life to play games, own a gaming PC, or something like that.

However, I do understand most of the humor in Pure Pwnage, I'm a big fan. :p