Email from Apple- iPhone "Talk to you Soon"

[05elstonc]

Got an email from apple today talking about the iPhone. The subject of the email was, "Thank you for your interest in iPhone." The body of the message was a brand new view of the iPhone as well as the following text

"Talk to you soon- Thanks for signing up. You'll be the first to hear the latest about iPhone— coming this June. That gives you just enough time to think of ways to break the news to your current phone."

This is fantastic news, Apple has been completely silent on iPhone related matters and finally they begin to build the buzz. Talk to you soon- is such a teaser. 2 months does not seem like it falls within the "soon" time frame. I believe we will be hearing more about the phone within a months time. Thoughts?

http://www.looprumors.com/images/LoopRumorsiphonebig.png

[iSaint]

Many of us have received emails from Cingular regarding the iPhone. I haven't seen this email, though. I'm sure Apple and Cingular bump up the number of teaser emails as June draws near.

[05elstonc]

I think you are exactly right. This is Apple's baby, and they are going to be putting their smartest marketing people on this project and I would expect some exciting new info about the iPhone that has been withheld. Why? Because the 6 month wait from January is long enough for people to nitpick so much that they will hinge their decision to wait till v2 on 1 feature such as price, or storage, or battery life, or app development etc. Apple can now start "upgrading" the phone now through teasers and convert those people who have poo pooed the phone and will now change their position because of 1 minor feature change that Apple may have already planned from the beginning. It also makes Apple look really good if they improve the specs before launch.

[settledown]

The whole email...

[QCassidy352]

I'd bet a lot that "soon" means "in two months"

[buymeaniphone]

I hope cingular releases some news about the phone plans for the iPhone, I think that will be the biggest factor on its success.

How come I haven't received my Apple email, I signed up too:(

[05elstonc]

I am not suggesting that the iPhone will ship before June. I simply believe that Apple will begin demonstrating more of the details surrounding the phone sooner.

[~Shard~]

Great job by Apple to continue to build interest and buzz around the iPhone. And I'd say that June could be considered "soon" even though it's 2 months away. ;) Sure, in all likelihood we will receive more details before then, but in terms of an actual release date, I'd say that's the most probable.

Can't wait for WWDC! :cool:

[runplaysleeprun]

I received this email this morning, I didn't realize it was news-worthy and read it, smiled, and deleted it. it's too early for me to get worked up again about the iphone, I don't want to be suffering with the anticipation for 2 months, so I'm not thinking about it.

[pcguru83]

Maybe their doing this to spear-head the announcement that the iPhone has passed FCC approval?

[Sandfleaz]

The marketing will ramp up as we get closer to June.
It will be a case study in creating pent up demand.

Just think of all the free press they have gotten up to this point, now it's time for the campaign to kick in! (can't wait)

[longofest]

Heh... iPhone still says "cingular"

[xfiftyfour]

I still think it was a horrible decision to announce the iPhone so far ahead of actual shipping. The initial buzz is gone, their competitors have released their own renditions, people have been able to nitpick over details and missing features.... no amount of email marketing is going to be able to reverse this.

[nagromme]

Must... wait... gor 16... GB....

Must... keep... Discover card... in... wallet....

Must... not... be... early... adopter....

Please... send... help....

I still think it was a horrible decision to announce the iPhone so far ahead of actual shipping. The initial buzz is gone, their competitors have released their own renditions, people have been able to nitpick over details and missing features.... no amount of email marketing is going to be able to reverse this.

Reverse what? No amount of competing renditions are going to equal Apple's multitouch functionality and attention to user experience--much less actually engineer and SHIP something, which Apple will soon do.

iPhone "competitors" (there are none so far--it's not quite in the same category as other products) do the same thing that iPod competitors do: they increase the amount people are talking about Apple products! Any time one of those is mentioned in some article, Apple ALSO gets free mention. Must be nice to get so much free buzz :)

[princealfie]

OH yewah, I want it soon :)

[MacbookSwitcher]

Reverse what? No amount of competing renditions are going to equal Apple's multitouch functionality and attention to user experience--much less actually engineer and SHIP something, which Apple will soon do.

Since no one has used it, we don't know what the multi-touch functionality and user experience will be like. We also don't know how many bugs it might have, what the reception will be like, etc, etc.

Sorry to rain on your parade, though. I'm looking forward to trying one out as much as everyone else.

[ravenvii]

So... Cingular or AT&T... which one is it?

[StrictlyCircus]

I still think it was a horrible decision to announce the iPhone so far ahead of actual shipping. The initial buzz is gone, their competitors have released their own renditions, people have been able to nitpick over details and missing features.... no amount of email marketing is going to be able to reverse this.

You clearly missed the larger point: be first to market. Apple's announcement beat LG and Prada's similar offerings and made them seem like copy-cats. Although we all might need to bear through the wait, no one should be complaining that interest will wane. Over 1 million people have signed up to get those e-mails from Cingular and Apple, so they must be doing something right.

[idea_hamster]

WTF!?! I totally signed up and I have gotten totally zip!

(Whew that was lots of ... -- now I'm too pooped to complain.)

(But really, I did sign up.)

[wordmunger]

9:42 is the time on the clock. So if you invert the time, you get (roughly) 24:6. Does that mean the release date for the iPhone is June 24?

(I know, this is completely ridiculous speculation, but it's kind of fun anyway)

[aricher]

"It's a show about nothing."

It's an email about nothing.

Can't wait to buy one though.

[Max Payne]

9:42 is the time on the clock. So if you invert the time, you get (roughly) 24:6. Does that mean the release date for the iPhone is June 24?

(I know, this is completely ridiculous speculation, but it's kind of fun anyway)

Things people do while waiting :D Nice though.

UK users will have to wait until after September.

[nagromme]

Since no one has used it, we don't know what the multi-touch functionality and user experience will be like. We also don't know how many bugs it might have, what the reception will be like, etc, etc.

Sorry to rain on your parade, though. I'm looking forward to trying one out as much as everyone else.

No, we don't know with certainty (we do have a very thorough demo and Apple's unique history of user-centric design) but I was talking about the early announcement.

[Poff]

You clearly missed the larger point: be first to market. Apple's announcement beat LG and Prada's similar offerings and made them seem like copy-cats. Although we all might need to bear through the wait, no one should be complaining that interest will wane. Over 1 million people have signed up to get those e-mails from Cingular and Apple, so they must be doing something right.

ahem.. LG announced their phone months before Apple, which made Apple seem like copycats. (Even though they are two totally different phones.)

[Squonk]

"That gives you just enough time to think of ways to break the news to your current phone."


More like "That gives you just enough time to figure out how much it's going to cost you to break your current contract." :D

Go :apple: !!

[zephead]

It's actually kind of smart idea to announce it far before they release it. That way, they effectively have a 1st-gen iPhone out for public scrutiny, even though it isn't in anybody's hands yet. So because of that, they can listen to what else people want in it and their opinions and stuff, then when Apple actually releases the iPhone, it'll effectively be a 2nd-gen.

And another thing, everyone's trying to copy the 1st-gen iPhone. When Apple releases the 2nd-gen iPhone, all those companies will have made bad rip-offs of an outdated product.

[Avicdar]

For better or worse Apple is going to be considered the inventor of the iPhone metaphor. Useful and functional touch screen context sensitive interfaces, innovative design, properly integrated fully functional software for phones.

Any competing devices that mimic this sort of functionality will be perceived as also-rans. So at this point, this is Apples game to lose.

As someone rightly pointed out - we don't know what the end user experience is truly going to be like. It might be all sunshiny and glowing as the keynote suggests, or there might be some fundamental WTF type flaws that prevent it from being the winner we all want it to be.

Just thinking about the proximity sensors that detect your face against the phone and shut off the touch screen. That must have been a bear to get to work right. How does it know the difference between your face and a big hand? How does it react to very low light situations?

There are all kinds of things that can go wrong. And of course, the iPod accessory vendors are going to be readying their iPhone add ons, including designer screen wipes, I'm sure. :)

Just hope Rogers here in Canada gets the phone sooner than later, and offers a reasonable package plan for it (data). They aren't known for being friendly on those terms, so hopefully Apple will smack 'em around a bit.

[vincebio]

a little off topic, but have you guys seen this?

http://www.iphone.com/

i thought it was only Cisco that had the shared name rights??

and i also thought that iPhone.com took you to Apple's homepage for years??

[rdrr]

I'd bet a lot that "soon" means "in two months"

Yep, it says June in the email. Pretty much squashes those iPhone early release hopes!

God, this will make April and May creep by... :mad:

[Chaszmyr]

a little off topic, but have you guys seen this?

http://www.iphone.com/

i thought it was only Cisco that had the shared name rights??

and i also thought that iPhone.com took you to Apple's homepage for years??

I don't know that only Cisco share rights, but it's quite possible that this company owns different rights. Their product is a service and not a device, and that can make a difference legally.

It is not iPhone.com that takes you Apple's homepage, it is iPhone.org

[nagromme]

a little off topic, but have you guys seen this?

http://www.iphone.com/

i thought it was only Cisco that had the shared name rights??

and i also thought that iPhone.com took you to Apple's homepage for years??

iphone.org goes to Apple, but I think iphone.com has been its own thing for some time. A name could hardly be more confused between multiple products :)

See also:
http://mammals.org

[running]

Hey, that's the first promotional picture without that hand! :)

Anyway, the iPhone will be available in Europe maybe in 2008, maybe more... and since it will be impossible to change SIM, I won't be able to buy it in US and use here :mad:

[StrayRooster]

Since no one has used it, we don't know what the multi-touch functionality and user experience will be like. We also don't know how many bugs it might have, what the reception will be like, etc, etc.

Sorry to rain on your parade, though. I'm looking forward to trying one out as much as everyone else.

I truly believe that Apple WILL NOT half-ass this product.

MacbookSwitcher, you almost seem angry that Apple is getting into the phone market. I read your post about how its running on vapors, and you seem a little bitter about the iPhone. You do make some very valid points though.

To your point about 'we don't know the interface', I think the demo pretty much shows exactly what the interface is going to be like, and that's what sold me on the iPhone. I don't see how me using the iPhone is going to be extremely different from Stevie J during the demo. So to me, the 'we don't know the interface' doesn't cut it.

I really don't think Apple is going to say 'Oh, it's a first gen, so we don't have to try very hard'. I really think that they are covering all their bases and trying to make a really good product.

Or maybe I'm just drinking the Kool-Aid. :)

[atari1356]

See also:
http://mammals.org

What the... ???

Is Apple secretly working on robotic mammal pets?

[running]

See also:
http://mammals.org

What has Apple to do with Mammals? Is it somehow connected with Beatles (but bugs are definitely not mammals)? Or is it only domain speculation?

I can also imagine iZoo - or :apple:Zoo

[EagerDragon]

Must... wait... gor 16... GB....

Must... keep... Discover card... in... wallet....

Must... not... be... early... adopter....

Please... send... help....



Reverse what? No amount of competing renditions are going to equal Apple's multitouch functionality and attention to user experience--much less actually engineer and SHIP something, which Apple will soon do.

iPhone "competitors" (there are none so far--it's not quite in the same category as other products) do the same thing that iPod competitors do: they increase the amount people are talking about Apple products! Any time one of those is mentioned in some article, Apple ALSO gets free mention. Must be nice to get so much free buzz :)

Those 200 patents are also going to prevent others from comming with something that realy competes for a little while.

[Howmanoid]

More here on iPhone message.

http://www.fasterlightening.com

[johnee]

yawn :rolleyes:

give me some real rumors!

[nagromme]

There are all kinds of things that can go wrong. And of course, the iPod accessory vendors are going to be readying their iPhone add ons, including designer screen wipes, I'm sure. :)

Can and will go wrong! When any product from a car to a computer hits the public, it gets a larger-scale test than it ever had before, and issues are always found. Maybe small annoyances, maybe big, maybe things that seem bad until you're used to them. But just in case something serious like a faulty component is found (it happens!) I don't want to be an early adopter of any electronics product.

Now, fingerprints are a given--they were obvious in Steve's demo. Luckily you can see through them just fine or wipe them off, but there is NO magic to prevent them. Ditto for scratches--they're nearly inevitable on any device with a screen that gets carried all over. And yet still it hurts to see them on Apple's sleek prooducts :o

More here on iPhone message.

http://www.*********.com

Newbie with ONE post, and it's a link. I'm highly suspicious, and in fear of spam I will not click :)

[EagerDragon]

9:42 is the time on the clock. So if you invert the time, you get (roughly) 24:6. Does that mean the release date for the iPhone is June 24?

(I know, this is completely ridiculous speculation, but it's kind of fun anyway)

11/6 or June 11

[Poff]

What has Apple to do with Mammals? Is it somehow connected with Beatles (but bugs are definitely not mammals)? Or is it only domain speculation?

I can also imagine iZoo - or :apple:Zoo

...might have something to do with
Cheetah Puma Jaguar Panther Tiger Leopard :D

[grappler]

I think you are exactly right. This is Apple's baby, and they are going to be putting their smartest marketing people on this project and I would expect some exciting new info about the iPhone that has been withheld. Why? Because the 6 month wait from January is long enough for people to nitpick so much that they will hinge their decision to wait till v2 on 1 feature such as price, or storage, or battery life, or app development etc. Apple can now start "upgrading" the phone now through teasers and convert those people who have poo pooed the phone and will now change their position because of 1 minor feature change that Apple may have already planned from the beginning. It also makes Apple look really good if they improve the specs before launch.

I certainly hope so. Add these (without even lowering the price) and I'll buy the first generation:

Storage: I should be able to move my whole music collection from my current iPod to this newer iPod. For me that's only about 20GB.
GPS: It already shows Google Maps. It should show my current position on that map. Do they even need GPS satellites for that? Can't they use the cell towers it's already talking to?
Web Integration - I should be able to access my visual voice mail box through my account page in a browser (presumably tied in with .mac or something). Where I work, cellphones aren't allowed inside, so the kind of features I get right now with GrandCentral (http://www.grandcentral.com) should be integrated with the iPhone. Not strictly part of the phone but it's a needed (and rather simple) feature of the service.

[johnee]

iphone.org goes to Apple, but I think iphone.com has been its own thing for some time. A name could hardly be more confused between multiple products :)

See also:
http://mammals.org

apple.com ip address : 17.112.152.32
mammals.org ip address : 17.254.0.91

and Apple owns IP Class A value 17 :
- 17 : Apple Computer Inc., CA (NET-APPLE-WWNET)

so mammals.org is legit

[daneoni]

Ugh, gimme a break. Oldest trick in the book. I bet steve just said: Send them a 'teaser' email so my reality distortion field is strengthened and keeps them salivating. Please....."talk to you soon". REALLY?

[nagromme]

What has Apple to do with Mammals?

I'm thinking it was bought years ago for potential use in a marketing campaign that positions Windows PCs as dinosaurs. But they naver used it and just let it point to apple.com.

I don't remember if that was just speculation, but it makes sense to me.

[kansast]

I'm finally getting a bit excited about this. Personally I've been waiting for a Apple produced phone for YEARS. Anyways, about 2 years ago, I had to drop Cingular where I live, because the Service was just absolutely @#$#@$.
Dropped calls, no signal, missed calls etc etc. Switched to Verizon.

Anyways, I had a feeling Apple was going to go with Cingular on this deal. Which bummed me out at first. But anyways, I've come to learn that Cingular has done quite a bit of updating on the network here, and adding towers etc. So where before a Cingular phone would not work at my house, tested a friends Razor on Cingular service, and it was getting full signal at my house.

Time to start savin' my pennies for a new iPhone

[Mac-Mariachi]

Imitating the spoiled little rich girl from the original Willy Wonka movie

"I want it and I want it NOW!"

[Doozy]

It is about time we hear something from Apple regarding the iPhone even if what they say really has no new information. My take from this email (which I received in my inbox at 10:34 am) is that Apple may be releasing more information regarding the iPhone in the near future.

It would be nice to hear that the iPhone will have new features, or a longer batter life, or maybe the FCC has approved the phone. Come on Apple let us hear some real news.

BTW: in the disclaimer at the bottom of the email is this "This device has not been authorized as required by the rules of the Federal Communications Commission. This device is not, and may not be, offered for sale or lease, or sold or leased, until authorization is obtained."

[MrCrowbar]

Oh boy, my current phone is not going to be happy. It's gonna be bitchin around and squeezing out my money as long as it can. It's an old Nokia from 2002, still great for texting, but the battery only holds for 2 days on standby. Too bad I'll have to wait even longer here in Europe...

[Chupa Chupa]

I'm kinds of suprised by the posts here. I thought for sure that people would interpret "June" to mean "Steve Jobs will surprise us atthe NAB Apple Event" :D

[JonHimself]

Things people do while waiting :D Nice though.

UK users will have to wait until after September.

Well.. Perhaps since the time is 9:24, you'll be waiting until September 24th... dun dun duuuuuuun.... :cool:

EDIT: Ha, jokes on me... It's 9:42.... my attempt at a lame joke got even lamer!

[koobcamuk]

Must... wait... gor 16... GB....

Must... keep... Discover card... in... wallet....

Must... not... be... early... adopter....

Please... send... help....



Reverse what? No amount of competing renditions are going to equal Apple's multitouch functionality and attention to user experience--much less actually engineer and SHIP something, which Apple will soon do.

iPhone "competitors" (there are none so far--it's not quite in the same category as other products) do the same thing that iPod competitors do: they increase the amount people are talking about Apple products! Any time one of those is mentioned in some article, Apple ALSO gets free mention. Must be nice to get so much free buzz :)

LG Prada is out soon and looks really nice.

[puckhead193]

the view of the phone makes me want to yea u know..myself. I can't wait. Is frustrating that I don't know anything on the release or cost/plans. O well I need a birthday present

[Mark Kuroda]

What do you all think of the Blackberry Pearl? I have it, and it's pretty awesome. It's not as glamorous as the iPhone, but it can do it all. Is everyone psyched on the OS X on phone?

I apologize ahead of time as I think I'll get flamed for this posting.

Hope everyone is well.

[MacbookSwitcher]

What do you all think of the Blackberry Pearl? I have it, and it's pretty awesome. It's not as glamorous as the iPhone, but it can do it all. Is everyone psyched on the OS X on phone?

I apologize ahead of time as I think I'll get flamed for this posting.

Hope everyone is well.

A co-worker and I were playing with the Blackberry pearl, and we got it to crash twice within 5 minutes. That's the extent of my use of it.

[nagromme]

LG Prada is out soon and looks really nice.
Not to mention, it has a smaller screen, lower res, black-and-white interface, no WiFi (!), tiny storage capacity (MicroSD!), no tilt/proximity/ambient light sensors, and of course no multitouch (oops, stray touches beware--no wonder it needs a bigger wasted margin around the outside that iPhone doesn't need). That leaves aside the software capabilities of the iPhone, from coverflow to realtime photo zooming to visual voicemail to visual tracking of multiple text sessions to REAL web browsing to iTunes integration to whatever else OS X in your pocket (with GB of storage and great graphics power) might come to allow.

And it costs $778 :o Granted, it's slighty smaller across than the iPhone. (And slightly thicker than the iPhone.)

"Really nice" is in the eye of the beholder :)

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/18/lgs-ke850-prada-official-iphone-says-wha/

[Doozy]

Is it just me or does this email seem like it should have been sent as an auto-response to signing up at the Apple website. The more I think about it, I am more confused by this email than anything.

[AVID]

Just as the iphone slowly disappear from our minds apple reminds us to prolong our agony until june - smart marketing

[daneoni]

Just as the iphone slowly disappear from our minds apple reminds us to prolong our agony until june - smart marketing

Exactly!!! but it's so annoying considering UK fans have to wait till like December 31st to get it and pay 500+ smackers for it.....with an 18 month contract.

[MacbookSwitcher]

Not to mention, it has a smaller screen, lower res, black-and-white interface, no WiFi (!), tiny storage capacity (MicroSD!), no tilt/proximity/ambient light sensors, and of course no multitouch (oops, stray touches beware--no wonder it needs a bigger wasted margin around the outside that iPhone doesn't need). That leaves aside the software capabilities of the iPhone, from coverflow to realtime photo zooming to visual voicemail to visual tracking of multiple text sessions to REAL web browsing to iTunes integration to whatever else OS X in your pocket (with GB of storage and great graphics power) might come to allow.

And it costs $778 :o Granted, it's slighty smaller across than the iPhone. (And slightly thicker than the iPhone.)

"Really nice" is in the eye of the beholder :)

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/18/lgs-ke850-prada-official-iphone-says-wha/

Just remember, much of what the iPhone does has been done before. Palm has patented threaded messaging (the iPhone SMS demo looked like a complete copy from Palm's Windows Mobile SMS app), and Blackberry already has a screen that adjusts based on ambient light.

I have a feeling we'll see a number of lawsuits right before the iPhone launch.

[Konradx]

I wonder what the delay for us Canadians will be

[xfiftyfour]

Reverse what? No amount of competing renditions are going to equal Apple's multitouch functionality and attention to user experience--much less actually engineer and SHIP something, which Apple will soon do.

iPhone "competitors" (there are none so far--it's not quite in the same category as other products) do the same thing that iPod competitors do: they increase the amount people are talking about Apple products! Any time one of those is mentioned in some article, Apple ALSO gets free mention. Must be nice to get so much free buzz :)

I'm sorry, but your opinion is of the Apple-bias. Don't get me wrong, I'm just as excited about the iPhone as you are and I don't value the competition as highly as the TRUE iPhone, but we're mac-lovers. The general population values their wallet above any company loyalty, and if companies like Samsung (http://news.com.com/2300-1035_3-6158987-1.html) have the time to develop and release a competitor to the iPhone for less, then guess what? The iPhone loses customers. And with a 10 million goal, they can't afford to lose a single one.

I'd also be lying if I didn't say that after stepping away from my excitement, I realized that there are a lot of features lacking that will keep me from buying right away (unless these features pop up by the time they release). Had Jobs announced that the iPhones were shipping back in January, they'd have sold me one right then.. but now that I've had time to really look it over, I'm not as impressed, and will be holding out. I cannot be the only one.

You clearly missed the larger point: be first to market. Apple's announcement beat LG and Prada's similar offerings and made them seem like copy-cats. Although we all might need to bear through the wait, no one should be complaining that interest will wane. Over 1 million people have signed up to get those e-mails from Cingular and Apple, so they must be doing something right.

Please. Who released that statistic? Cingular. You have to be careful about what statistics and numbers you believe. Personally, I don't believe for a second that 1 million unique users signed up for the iPhone announcement.

[MacFly123]

Since no one has used it, we don't know what the multi-touch functionality and user experience will be like. We also don't know how many bugs it might have, what the reception will be like, etc, etc.

Sorry to rain on your parade, though. I'm looking forward to trying one out as much as everyone else.

Without any specifics, I have read many articles from when it was debuted from all the tech people that got their hands on it, and I seriously didn't read a single negative word about the multi-touch interface or keyboard. On the contrary, every article I read said that they LOVED it and it was amazing.

[daneoni]

.......I'd also be lying if I didn't say that after stepping away from my excitement, I realized that there are a lot of features lacking that will keep me from buying right away (unless these features pop up by the time they release). Had Jobs announced that the iPhones were shipping back in January, they'd have sold me one right then.. but now that I've had time to really look it over, I'm not as impressed, and will be holding out. I cannot be the only one........


You aren't the only one

[sikkinixx]

*sigh* I can't buy one *curses Telus CDMA* but then for $500+ do I really want one? *ponders*

NEW TOUCHSCREEN IPODS NEXT TUESDAY FTW OMG!!!Z!!!!! :D

[lazyrighteye]

Yep, it says June in the email. Pretty much squashes those iPhone early release hopes!

God, this will make April and May creep by... :mad:

Nothing Leopard and new hardware won't 'fix.' ;)

[~Shard~]

*sigh* I can't buy one *curses Telus CDMA*

For what it's worth, Telus may be switching to GSM in the future. :cool:

Or there's always Roger's... :p ;)

[Mgkwho]

9:42 is the time on the clock. So if you invert the time, you get (roughly) 24:6. Does that mean the release date for the iPhone is June 24?

I totally like that :p. But it's later than an inverted June 14! Too bad neither are Tuesdays.

-=|Mgkwho

[phillipjfry]

So where do I sign up to get emails about Leopard? :)

Seriously tho, has anyone heard if Apple might end up changing/upgrading any specs that are already known/rumored?
:confused:

I can't wait to see the final numbers of all those who end up with the phone after summer is over. Soon you will see tv reports about all the movie stars that got their new iPhone and how much they love it.

[milo2020]

what are the chances that when it ships it will be 8 or 16 GB capacity? bet you it is!!

[iJawn108]

I'm going to get one but not yet. I'll likely wait for the 2nd gen

[lazyrighteye]

You aren't the only one

Nope.

Sorry - how do people double quote?
I realize, now, that without the quote daneon was quoting, my reply seems a bit WTF.

Duh - fig'd out.

[jonharris200]

Exactly!!! but it's so annoying considering UK fans have to wait till like December 31st to get it and pay 500+ smackers for it.....with an 18 month contract.

Advantages to being in UK: we are forced not to buy a first gen product and instead get a second gen one straight off.

[thejadedmonkey]

Hey, that's the first promotional picture without that hand! :)

Anyway, the iPhone will be available in Europe maybe in 2008, maybe more... and since it will be impossible to change SIM, I won't be able to buy it in US and use here :mad:
Not true. It uses a sim card. just pop it in, and you're good to go.

[iJawn108]

Nothing Leopard and new hardware won't 'fix.' ;)

NAB:

"oh well sorry to waste your time we have nothing to show you. *steve laughs and walks off stage*"

[ortuno2k]

Meh,
More iPhone chatter.

[sikkinixx]

For what it's worth, Telus may be switching to GSM in the future. :cool:

Or there's always Roger's... :p ;)

lol not soon enough!

And my mom works for Telus so I get her 20% discount on my bill AND I just signed up for 3 years last August *doh* So yeah, I'm kinda SOL for a while *sigh*

[shrimpdesign]

Personally, I don't believe for a second that 1 million unique users signed up for the iPhone announcement.

I think you'd be crazy not to believe that!

When the iPhone was announced, it made national and local news. There were tons of media coverage about the iPhone outside of the tech media.

See, phones like the Prada, and that Samsung one ... they get articles on Digg and Slashdot .. but the iPhone makes CNN, NBC ... and even random local stations like Eugene, OR in addition to Digg and Slashdot!

The media coverage for the iPhone announcement was HUGE. I was surprised that only 1 million signed up. I mean, geez, you don't have to like the iPhone, but you're crazy if you think people don't want it.

[lazyrighteye]

Meh,
More iPhone chatter.

And you expected?

[donlphi]

Still pretty lame to know it's going through Cingular (AT&T). EV-DO REV. A or it's worthless.

Does anybody know when Cingular (AT&T) is supposed to be updating their broadband?

:(

[Cult Follower]

I hope soon means very soon.

[DsurioN]

weird, I signed up but I didn't get this email.... maybe apple doesn't care about us in canada :rolleyes:

[lazyrighteye]

Does anybody know when Cingular (AT&T) is supposed to be updating their broadband?

Correlation between iPhone release date and updates to Cingular's network, perhaps? Seems a great time for Cingular to kick off new network capabilities/features/etc.

Side note: do we know if at&t will keep the Cingular name or will it all be at&t?

[ppnkg]

iPhone. `Soon' reinvented.

[grappler]

iPhone. `Soon' reinvented.

Hopefully that doesn't mean 'June' reinvented :P

[hulugu]

More like "That gives you just enough time to figure out how much it's going to cost you to break your current contract." :D

Go :apple: !!

I misread the line at first, I thought it said "...just enough time to break your current phone."

No problem, I thought, I'll fling it down a stairway at the next opportunity.

[Doozy]

Side note: do we know if at&t will keep the Cingular name or will it all be at&t?

AT&T will be dropping Cingular.

[bmat]

Personally, a lot of the hype for me has worn off. When I first saw it, I thought wow I want one, but it's pricey. A bit later, I was like, ah, I can eat the cost. Now I don't know if I care because I've rationalized so many other things.

I understand why you pre-announce so far in advance - takes time to roll out, approvals, etc., it's not something you can surprise, and it's better to get phone buyers under contracts to wait before renewing.... But still, I just feel the hype is wearing thin, and an email teaser didn't do it for me.

Of course, if there's some new hidden function that just rocks, then I might be sold again (or be in that lusting I have to have it mode, without any rationalization that I don't need it).

[hulugu]

I'm sorry, but your opinion is of the Apple-bias. Don't get me wrong, I'm just as excited about the iPhone as you are and I don't value the competition as highly as the TRUE iPhone, but we're mac-lovers. The general population values their wallet above any company loyalty, and if companies like Samsung (http://news.com.com/2300-1035_3-6158987-1.html) have the time to develop and release a competitor to the iPhone for less, then guess what? The iPhone loses customers. And with a 10 million goal, they can't afford to lose a single one.

I'd also be lying if I didn't say that after stepping away from my excitement, I realized that there are a lot of features lacking that will keep me from buying right away (unless these features pop up by the time they release). Had Jobs announced that the iPhones were shipping back in January, they'd have sold me one right then.. but now that I've had time to really look it over, I'm not as impressed, and will be holding out. I cannot be the only one.



Please. Who released that statistic? Cingular. You have to be careful about what statistics and numbers you believe. Personally, I don't believe for a second that 1 million unique users signed up for the iPhone announcement.

First, I disagree. The competition has released phones that are difficult and awkward to use and the features that are missing from the iPhone are the kind of henny-penny geekery that won't hold back sales, just as the lack of a FM radio on the iPod hasn't affected those sales.

Secondly, the iPhone will come with a smart marketing campaign which will help sell the phone's 'wow' features.

And thirdly, while most buyers are sensitive to market pricing, there are also thousands (if not millions) who won't mind spending a little more for a device they deal with every day. There are dozens of 'prestige' products that do very well even against supposed 'generic' competitors. Look at sales of the RAZR for just one example in the cellular phone market. Was the RAZR really a better phone that any Samsung clamshell? No. Did Motorola move a lot of those phones even a high initial price. Yes.

1 Million interested parties sounds like a correct number (I'm sure there are duplicates, but I'm also sure there are people who want an iPhone and didn't sign up) and if Apple can convert this kind of interest into sales they'll have a powerful entry into a tough market.

[nagromme]

Just remember, much of what the iPhone does has been done before. Palm has patented threaded messaging (the iPhone SMS demo looked like a complete copy from Palm's Windows Mobile SMS app), and Blackberry already has a screen that adjusts based on ambient light.

I have a feeling we'll see a number of lawsuits right before the iPhone launch.

If by "complete copy" you mean "exactly like Apple iChat" with the basic functioning that IM has had for a decade, then yes ;)

And it's great if the Blackberry has one feature also found in the iPhone. PowerBooks have had that for years.

None of this changes that the iPhone does what it does in a better and easier way. It actually IS different from what came before it--much as that upsets some parties.

No need to "remember" that other devices have done SOME form of the basic functions of the iPhone. It's a phone and Internet device and music player after all. It's not MEANT to perform some function nobody heard of before, it's meant to meet needs we already have.

Do they do what the iPhone does as WELL as the iPhone does? Not if user interface matters.

But we'll keep an eye open for those lawsuits :)

The general population values their wallet above any company loyalty, and if companies like Samsung (http://news.com.com/2300-1035_3-6158987-1.html) have the time to develop and release a competitor to the iPhone for less, then guess what? The iPhone loses customers. And with a 10 million goal, they can't afford to lose a single one.

That's quite dramatic :D So, is there any sign that Samsung or anyone else IS going to duplicate what makes an iPhone unique? You link to a 3rd-quarter product preview of something that doesn't exist yet. You say "if"--and I will accept that "if." That "if" affects every product on Earth: IF some competitor makes the same thing for less and markets it well, it could harm sales. I'm not sure how that detracts from the iPhone.

I'm not sure whether you're predicting that the iPhone will be a flop or not. If you are, my prediction disagrees :)


what are the chances that when it ships it will be 8 or 16 GB capacity? bet you it is!!

Pretty slim chance I'd say--but I bet that WILL follow in a matter of months. 16 is the point at which I'm ready to buy myself.

[rlreif]

I think you are exactly right. This is Apple's baby, and they are going to be putting their smartest marketing people on this project and I would expect some exciting new info about the iPhone that has been withheld. Why? Because the 6 month wait from January is long enough for people to nitpick so much that they will hinge their decision to wait till v2 on 1 feature such as price, or storage, or battery life, or app development etc. Apple can now start "upgrading" the phone now through teasers and convert those people who have poo pooed the phone and will now change their position because of 1 minor feature change that Apple may have already planned from the beginning. It also makes Apple look really good if they improve the specs before launch.

its not about poo pooing, im often accused of being a fanboy, but the real problem with this is edge data. it is a deal killer... cingular GIVES AWAY, for FREE 3g phones with a new contract... as a treo 650 user i am desperate for something new, but the number one priority is faster data... this phone offers absolutely nothing new that my 4 year old cant do, and takes a few away (keyboard, open platform for developement, multitude of 3rd party apps)... i can live without some of those, but i'll be damned if im going to replace my 4 year old phone in 2007 for $600 with something that has no faster of a data connection, and takes other things AWAY!... i want to want an iPhone, but edge doesnt cut it... if you have used google maps on an edge connection you know what i mean

oh and one more thing.... you make a good point about them adding features, that would be great, but they cant add 3g data AFTER FCC approval... cannot happen.

[nagromme]

... as a treo 650 user i am desperate for something new, but the number one priority is faster data... this phone offers absolutely nothing new that my 4 year old cant do ....

Actually it DOES offer many new things that no other phone can do. They're just not things YOU want. Your priority is 3G, which is fine.

But people should not make the common mistake of assuming that what THEY want is what makes a product sell. Other people WILL appreciate the ease of use and features of the iPhone.

oh and one more thing.... you make a good point about them adding features, that would be great, but they cant add 3g data AFTER FCC approval... cannot happen.

Maybe not, but they WILL add 3G, it's already been announced. They'll simply get FCC approval again.

I'd like to have 3G, but the amount of time I'd use it, given the WiFi option and the lack of 3G support in the US, would be small--and I can DO the same things (more slowly) without it. Si I'll wait for the 3G iPhone if pretty solid rumors arrive to say it won't be long. Otherwise, I'll just wait for 16 GB, and if 3G comes in time for me, then so be it.

It will come eventually for sure.

[rlreif]

Not to mention, it has a smaller screen, lower res, black-and-white interface, no WiFi (!), tiny storage capacity (MicroSD!), no tilt/proximity/ambient light sensors, and of course no multitouch (oops, stray touches beware--no wonder it needs a bigger wasted margin around the outside that iPhone doesn't need). That leaves aside the software capabilities of the iPhone, from coverflow to realtime photo zooming to visual voicemail to visual tracking of multiple text sessions to REAL web browsing to iTunes integration to whatever else OS X in your pocket (with GB of storage and great graphics power) might come to allow.

And it costs $778 :o Granted, it's slighty smaller across than the iPhone. (And slightly thicker than the iPhone.)

"Really nice" is in the eye of the beholder :)

http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/18/lgs-ke850-prada-official-iphone-says-wha/

actually, its FREE in europe with an 18 month contract

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellphone/lg-prada-free-with-contract-in-europe-available-now-248950.php

[rlreif]

Still pretty lame to know it's going through Cingular (AT&T). EV-DO REV. A or it's worthless.

Does anybody know when Cingular (AT&T) is supposed to be updating their broadband?

:(

umm cingular/at&t has had UMTS/HSDPA in major markets for some time now, its just that the iphone doesnt use it. Cingular gave my mom a 3g phone for free when she switched over to them in december and she has no idea what that means nor uses any of the features... apple using edge data on a $600 phone with contract in 2007 is ridiculous...

[aranhamo]

Nothing Leopard and new hardware won't 'fix.' ;)

Too bad that won't be until June either. :-)

I can't get an iPhone until they make one without a camera. No cameras allowed where I work, nor at pretty much any company in my whole industry. That was one of IT's excuses for not letting a co-worker get a MacBook Pro, too.

Then, maybe after I make my first million I'll be able to afford one.

[nagromme]

actually, its FREE in europe with an 18 month contract

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/cellphone/lg-prada-free-with-contract-in-europe-available-now-248950.php

That's good. That justifies the stuff it's lacking then. Except, of course, if the iPhone's $499 price turns out not to require a contract as pricey as the Prada contract. In which case, you're still paying for that Prada after all...

The question (which I don't think we can answer yet) is whether the iPhone's cost is REALLY $499, or $499 plus a monthly amount that inflates the AT&T plan. (We do know you're committed to staying an AT&T customer for a time, we just don't know the costs.)

umm cingular/at&t has had UMTS/HSDPA in major markets for some time now, its just that the iphone doesnt use it.

The key here is "in major markets." Coverage is still very spotty for 3G in the US. Thus, it makes sense NOT to make the iPhone more expensive (and power-hungry?) by adding 3D when much of the time people can't use it. WiFi (which most other phones lack) is actually a pretty good trade--far superior, when you're at a hot spot.

3G will come, but it's hard to argue with the logic of leaving it out for the US launch.

http://www.cingular.com/coverageviewer/

[NeuroticNomad]

9:42 is the time on the clock. So if you invert the time, you get (roughly) 24:6. Does that mean the release date for the iPhone is June 24?

(I know, this is completely ridiculous speculation, but it's kind of fun anyway)

Steve Jobs' MacWorld 2007 keynote began at 9:00am. He introduced the iPhone 42 minutes in. http://www.apple.com/iphone/keynote/

The original photos even had the date of the keynote, acting like a giant birth certificate. My guess for the change: "January" started looking like too old a date for a brand new ad campaign but thy didn't want to disrupt the iconic look of the screenshot too much.

Upon release, I expect it to change to June in all the ads, but the clock will still be 9:42.

[MacbookSwitcher]

If by "complete copy" you mean "exactly like Apple iChat" with the basic functioning that IM has had for a decade, then yes ;)

And it's great if the Blackberry has one feature also found in the iPhone. PowerBooks have had that for years.

None of this changes that the iPhone does what it does in a better and easier way. It actually IS different from what came before it--much as that upsets some parties.

No need to "remember" that other devices have done SOME form of the basic functions of the iPhone. It's a phone and Internet device and music player after all. It's not MEANT to perform some function nobody heard of before, it's meant to meet needs we already have.

Do they do what the iPhone does as WELL as the iPhone does? Not if user interface matters.

But we'll keep an eye open for those lawsuits :)


"Does something well" is a matter of (fanboy) opinion, but intellectual property is a matter of fact and law. Apple should not really be trumpeting that they have filed 200 patents on the iPhone, because some of the long time players are sure to have patents/methodologies/technologies that Apple has "touched" with the device. It will be interesting to see what happens.

[rlreif]

Actually it DOES offer many new things that no other phone can do. They're just not things YOU want. Your priority is 3G, which is fine.

But people should not make the common mistake of assuming that what THEY want is what makes a product sell. Other people WILL appreciate the ease of use and features of the iPhone.



Maybe not, but they WILL add 3G, it's already been announced. They'll simply get FCC approval again.

I'd like to have 3G, but the amount of time I'd use it, given the WiFi option and the lack of 3G support in the US, would be small--and I can DO the same things (more slowly) without it. Si I'll wait for the 3G iPhone if pretty solid rumors arrive to say it won't be long. Otherwise, I'll just wait for 16 GB, and if 3G comes in time for me, then so be it.

It will come eventually for sure.

fair enough, but seriously wifi, though a cool feature, is no replacement for 3g... google maps is awesome on a mobile when you are in an unfamilliar city, but the need arises in the car, or at least out and about, and finding a wifi connection isnt an option at those times... when you have 3g and an unlimited connection why do you need wifi ever?? id personally rather they ditch the wifi card for a proper gps, or something... i know 3g will come, and i will buy an iphone as soon as it does, i cant wait, but in the mean time i just played with a samsung blackjack and its pretty sweet, and can be had for free with a contract

[nagromme]

fair enough, but seriously wifi, though a cool feature, is no replacement for 3g...

Certainly not (and vice versa). BOTH is what I want, ideally! Maps is exactly the reason I'd want that.

But that means I want 3G coverage nationwide... and if that's not gonna happen, then it's AT&T I fault, not the iPhone--and I won't wait for a 3G iPhone (at higher cost? larger size? lower talk time?) that I can seldom use as 3G.

Now, Apple could release a 3G version for those cities/countries that DO have it... and in fact, that's what Apple has already said they will do. We just don't know when.

"Does something well" is a matter of (fanboy) opinion, but intellectual property is a matter of fact and law. Apple should not really be trumpeting that they have filed 200 patents on the iPhone, because some of the long time players are sure to have patents/methodologies/technologies that Apple has "touched" with the device. It will be interesting to see what happens.

You seem to understand the legalities better than Apple or I ;) I'll leave the name-calling to you, and continue my zany opinion that the iPhone "does things well." :D

[rlreif]

That's good. That justifies the stuff it's lacking then. Except, of course, if the iPhone's $499 price turns out not to require a contract as pricey as the Prada contract. In which case, you're still paying for that Prada after all...

The question (which I don't think we can answer yet) is whether the iPhone's cost is REALLY $499, or $499 plus a monthly amount that inflates the AT&T plan. (We do know you're committed to staying an AT&T customer for a time, we just don't know the costs.)



The key here is "in major markets." Coverage is still very spotty for 3G in the US. Thus, it makes sense NOT to make the iPhone more expensive (and power-hungry?) by adding 3D when much of the time people can't use it. WiFi (which most other phones lack) is actually a pretty good trade--far superior, when you're at a hot spot.

3G will come, but it's hard to argue with the logic of leaving it out for the US launch.

http://www.cingular.com/coverageviewer/

bah, i disagree, cingulars 3g network reaches 100 million americans... and the markets its in tend to be wealthier, younger, more prgressive, and more tech savy parts of the country... come on, more people in california, new york, seattle, chicago, etc... will be willing to spend this kind of money on a phone than in the heartland... there are exceptions of course, but iphones will be far more common initially in the same places where ipods were seen more commonly in the forst couple years

[rdrr]

what are the chances that when it ships it will be 8 or 16 GB capacity? bet you it is!!

As long as the price doesn't change. :)

[MattyMac]

What a pleasant email to recieve after a long 12 hour day of work :D :apple:

...very classy too!

[MacbookSwitcher]

what are the chances that when it ships it will be 8 or 16 GB capacity? bet you it is!!

Not a chance. Testing a device like a smartphone is highly complex and lengthy, so introducing a MASSIVE change like doubling the flash capacity, only weeks from Release-To-Manufacturing, is something that a smart company like Apple would pretty much never do. (Except for extenuating cirumstances, such as if Cingular offered them $10 million extra to do it, which I highly doubt)

[nagromme]

bah, i disagree, cingulars 3g network reaches 100 million americans...
Well there's no doubt that 3G is coming to iPhone... Now, whether or not it's OK to offer the iPhone first to people who don't demand 3G is a business decision--and one I will leave it to Apple to calculate. (My guess is the decision is fine and the iPhone will sell well ebven before the 3G version.) What's more imporant to for us USERS is whether we will get what we want--and for those who want 3G, the answer is yes :) Just not in June probably.

If you disagree that the iPhone would cost more with 3G, I can't say that it would--that's only my speculation. I did hear that 3G requires more power--anyone know if that's true?

(If the cost and power issues with 3G are for real, then I can definitely say it's OK to start with non-3G and let 3G follow soon after.)

Here's what I DEMAND of my iPhone:

1. It must be a revised version. If not an official Version B, then at least a mini-revision a few months in. Apple may fix something big in that time, or improve something small... but whatever they improve, I'd rather have it than be the early adopter.

2. It must have 16 GB storage. I know how I use my iPod now (music, photos, backup of work files--and video if I could play it!) and I know that 8 GB would be just enough. I want some cushion on top of that.

Here's what I very much WANT--but won't wait forever for (and might choose not to pay for):

1. 3G support (but only if it doesn't increase power drain or require a thicker phone).

2. 32 GB! :D

EDIT: 3. I want AT&T's 3G coverage to expand to the places I'd want it that it doesn't cover now. And while they're at it, expand their voice coverage too :)

In short, there's not a chance I'll be buying an iPhone in June. Later on--sure. And yet I am convinced it will immediately be a successful product without me. I recognize that MY needs are not the only needs that matter. 3G or no, it WILL sell as many as they can make, I predict.

[Rocketman]

weird, I signed up but I didn't get this email.... maybe apple doesn't care about us in canada :rolleyes:

I got the email. Wasn't the sign-up through a site and browser where localization is detected? I suspect so.

Rocketman

[rlreif]

Well there's no doubt that 3G is coming... whether or not it's OK to offer the iPhone first to people who don't demand it is a business decision--and one I will leave it to Apple to calculate. (My guess is the decision is fine and the iPhone will sell well ebven before the 3G version.) What's more imporant to for us USERS is whether we will get what we want--and for those who want 3G, the answer is yes :) Just not in June probably.

If you disagree that the iPhone would cost more than 3G, I can't say that it would--it's all speculation. I did hear that 3G requires more power--anyone know if that's true?

(If the cost and power issues with 3G are for real, that I can definitely say it's OK to start with non-3G and let 3G follow soon after.)

Here's what I DEMAND of my iPhone:

1. It must be a revised version. If not an official Version B, then at least a mini-revision a few months in. Apple may fix something big in that time, or improve something small... but whatever they improve, I'd rather have it than be the early adopter.

2. It must have 16 GB storage. I know how I use my iPod now (music, photos, backup of work files--and video if I could play it!) and I know that 8 GB would be just enough. I want some cushion on top of that.

Here's what I very much WANT--but won't wait forever for (and might choose not to pay for):

1. 3G support.

2. 32 GB! :D

im with you, man... different features matter to different people...
as for the power thing, yes HSDPA requires moderately more power than simple GSM with edge, but only when it is being used... HSDPA as I understand it is a separate antenna (HSDPA is a CDMA spec) so in normal operation it it uses the GSM antenna until a data stream is initiated at which time it connects to the second network..... on the other hand wifi uses far more power as it is always on looking for a signal... since the wifi isnt attached to the gsm towers it cant use the gsm to turn wifi on only when it is necessary, therefore wifi uses far more power than HSDPA.... another advantage with HSDPA is that you can tether your phone with your lappie, sharing its connection, this can be done with edge, but its miserably slow... in the case of the iphone you need a wifi hotspot for a fast connection, and in that case your lappie can get one too... with 3g you can get both online anywhere!

[MacbookSwitcher]

Well there's no doubt that 3G is coming to iPhone... Now, whether or not it's OK to offer the iPhone first to people who don't demand 3G is a business decision--and one I will leave it to Apple to calculate. (My guess is the decision is fine and the iPhone will sell well ebven before the 3G version.) What's more imporant to for us USERS is whether we will get what we want--and for those who want 3G, the answer is yes :) Just not in June probably.

If you disagree that the iPhone would cost more with 3G, I can't say that it would--that's only my speculation. I did hear that 3G requires more power--anyone know if that's true?

(If the cost and power issues with 3G are for real, then I can definitely say it's OK to start with non-3G and let 3G follow soon after.)

Here's what I DEMAND of my iPhone:

1. It must be a revised version. If not an official Version B, then at least a mini-revision a few months in. Apple may fix something big in that time, or improve something small... but whatever they improve, I'd rather have it than be the early adopter.

2. It must have 16 GB storage. I know how I use my iPod now (music, photos, backup of work files--and video if I could play it!) and I know that 8 GB would be just enough. I want some cushion on top of that.

Here's what I very much WANT--but won't wait forever for (and might choose not to pay for):

1. 3G support (but only if it doesn't increase power drain or require a thicker phone).

2. 32 GB! :D

In short, there's not a chance I'll be buying an iPhone in June. Leter on--sure. And yet I am convinced it will immediately be a successful product without me. I recognize that MY needs are not the only needs that matter. 3G or no, it WILL sell as many as they can make, I predict.

I agree with your reasoning...I wouldn't want a device that couldn't store my whole music collection, which is around 14 GB.

As for 3G, yes a UMTS radio is definitely more expensive than an EGDE radio such as what is in the iPhone, simply because it is a newer technology. However, I believe the primary reason Apple didn't go with 3G is performance: Cingular's UMTS deployment is absolutely horrible (for example, DNS resolution on Cingular UMTS takes about 30 seconds). Not suitable for the iPhone or any other phone, for that matter.

Europe has a much better UMTS deployment, so Apple will most certainly make their first release there 3G.

[mtrctyjoe]

I am in bed with Sprint until August of 2008. I have two phones with a $250 cancel fee for EACH!

How do I get out of this trap !!! AAAAGGGGGHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!

I think this one could just push me over the edge. I really do.

[nagromme]

as for the power thing, yes HSDPA requires moderately more power than simple GSM with edge, but only when it is being used... HSDPA as I understand it is a separate antenna (HSDPA is a CDMA spec) so in normal operation it it uses the GSM antenna until a data stream is initiated at which time it connects to the second network.....

However, I believe the primary reason Apple didn't go with 3G is performance: Cingular's UMTS deployment is absolutely horrible (for example, DNS resolution on Cingular UMTS takes about 30 seconds). Not suitable for the iPhone or any other phone, for that matter.

Good to know. I might be unhappy with 3G in the US... but I'd still prefer it if possible, for future-proofing.

[rlreif]

I agree with your reasoning...I wouldn't want a device that couldn't store my whole music collection, which is around 14 GB.

As for 3G, yes a UMTS radio is definitely more expensive than an EGDE radio such as what is in the iPhone, simply because it is a newer technology. However, I believe the primary reason Apple didn't go with 3G is performance: Cingular's UMTS deployment is absolutely horrible (for example, DNS resolution on Cingular UMTS takes about 30 seconds). Not suitable for the iPhone or any other phone, for that matter.

Europe has a much better UMTS deployment, so Apple will most certainly make their first release there 3G.

not to harp (sorry, i normally dont post so much) but another advantage with 3g is that a lot of features are doable, and are already being done with other smartphones, that simply cant be done with edge... if you have a slingbox you can control your home DVR and watch its content over 3g... using this internal storage becomes much less important... another similar thing is this: http://mobile.aol.com/winamp it allows windows peecees and winmo 3g phones to cooperate... the peecee streams its entire mp3 library to the phone over the data connection... i have over 100gb of music, it'll be a long tme before i can fit my entire collection on my phone, but with a free samsung blackjack, slingbox mobile (free), and mobile winamp (free) i can have ALL of my music on my phone, and everyhting on my directivo with zero internal storage... add a 2gb sd card for photos and whatnot, and suddenly paying $600 for a measly 8gb seems silly!

[rlreif]

Good to know. I might be unhappy with 3G in the US... but I'd still prefer it if possible, for future-proofing.

the point you seem to be missing is that you wouldnt be 'unhappy with 3g' your iphone would function on edge networks jsut as the iphone that is coming does, and when you are in a city with faster data, or when your city gets 3g your phone will automatically see a speed boost... its not like if apple chose to use 3g that yours wouldnt work wherever you live, it would just be edge

[waterspaul]

iPhone, yay! But can we get back to being an innovative COMPUTER co? Waiting for the new Mac Pro...:apple:

[Billy Boo Bob]

yawn :rolleyes:

give me some real rumors!

The best rumors are the ones you start yourself. :p

[McGarvels]

Still pretty lame to know it's going through Cingular (AT&T). EV-DO REV. A or it's worthless.

Does anybody know when Cingular (AT&T) is supposed to be updating their broadband?

:(

Yeah, I totally agree, and then Verizon (EV-DO right?) can put their awesome OS on top of apple's miniOSX. Oh and even better, Verizon can cripple the bluetooth and wifi access so you have to buy all your songs from their service. I can't wait!!!

[Dean812@msn.com]

I still think it was a horrible decision to announce the iPhone so far ahead of actual shipping. The initial buzz is gone, their competitors have released their own renditions, people have been able to nitpick over details and missing features.... no amount of email marketing is going to be able to reverse this.


Buzz is gone? I'd say its only just begun. And as for competitors, who are you speaking of? There are Z E R O iPhone competitors. There isnt one single phone out there in its class.

As for timing when releasing products, theres a whole phyrscology behind it. Trust that Apple is not just "winging" it. They know what they are doing. And I
for one CAN'T WAIT!

[buffalo]

What a nice photo of the iPhone. It makes me want it that much more.

The price doesn't scare me, although it would set me back a fair bit. Like its been said thousands of times already, it's the Cingular part that makes the switch impossible. After MWSF, I re-contracted myself to Verizon since I knew iPhone wasn't a realistic option for me. My contract, plus the rest of my families ending at different points in the next few years make it nearly impossible to switch. Verizon's better coverage and more users that I call make switching that much more impractical.

I keep trying to find a way to get the iPhone. If Cingular were to offer some promotion to buy out of a current contract (I can wish...), that might be enough to pull me to them.

[Rocketman]

iPhone, yay! But can we get back to being an innovative COMPUTER co? Waiting for the new Mac Pro...:apple:

The real reason iPhone is cool is not because it is a device with a phone app running on it. It is a palmtop supercomputer with desktop class OS and software, and multiple wireless I/O capabilities. It is the ultimate thin client in a client server ecosystem consisting of millions of clients and millions of servers.

Rocketman told you so.

[maxp1]

Man that's a slick looking peice of equipment. Every time I see it I get this "I want that" feeling even though I have just about zero use for such a thing.

[Stella]

No one really gives a **** about the iPhone. The minority might, but when its comes down to it, the iPhone is lacking in functionality and very expensive.

The majority have seen through this phone, a bit of expensive eye candy that isn't very functional.

This is the reason why Apple have to promote it again.

Wake me up when Apple release a proper smartphone.

From what I've observed of the demo, the touch screen maybe nice but the GUI is cumbersome. Apple will have to significantly improve the GUI for this to be a pleasure to use.

[digitalbiker]

The Apple iphone looks nice :cool: but I think it also looks like an infant product that needs more refining.:(

It seems to have bells but it seems to be missing whistles.

Several things that I find most valuable in a phone don't seem to be available on an iphone;

1) Hands free car kit with voice control.
2) One hand operation.
3) Instant access buttons for things like redial, direct speed dial, etc.
4) Flip cover for protection, call pickup, and call disconnect.

From the few reports that I read the interface was nice but the keyboard was still gimmicky like most touch screen keyboards. Also it sounds like many things might be possible to implement in the future but currently weren't supported.

As an early adapter on many Apple products take my advice, wait for rev. 2 on this one. You will be glad you did!

[Zadillo]

No one really gives a **** about the iPhone. The minority might, but when its comes down to it, the iPhone is lacking in functionality and very expensive.

The majority have seen through this phone, a bit of expensive eye candy that isn't very functional.

This is the reason why Apple have to promote it again.

Wake me up when Apple release a proper smartphone.

From what I've observed of the demo, the touch screen maybe nice but the GUI is cumbersome. Apple will have to significantly improve the GUI for this to be a pleasure to use.

Lacking in what functionality?

And the GUI is cumbersome? What do you think needs to be improved in the iPhone GUI from what you've seen?

Speaking as a Treo user who has spent a ton of time with the Palm OS, and tried and failed to like Windows Mobile, I think it is amazing to say that the iPhone GUI is "cumbersome", especially if you are comparing it to these OS's.

[nagromme]

the point you seem to be missing is that you wouldnt be 'unhappy with 3g' your iphone would function on edge networks jsut as the iphone that is coming does, and when you are in a city with faster data, or when your city gets 3g your phone will automatically see a speed boost... its not like if apple chose to use 3g that yours wouldnt work wherever you live, it would just be edge

I'm not missing that at all. I have no problem accepting 3G--if it adds no cost or bulk--and in fact I want it (though it's not my top priority).

The reasons not to intro 3G in the very first version are business decisions on Apple's end--and I'm speculating that this call will not in fact backfire. Meanwhile those who demand 3G will get what they want down the road.

No one really gives a **** about the iPhone. The minority might, but when its comes down to it, the iPhone is lacking in functionality and very expensive.

The majority have seen through this phone, a bit of expensive eye candy that isn't very functional.

Wow, I think we have a post worth bookmarking (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=3512246&postcount=120) for Son of Thread 500 :D

Good to know your view is the "majority" ;) And here I was thinking the majority currently know nothing more than "iPod good!" and "iPhone? Must be like iPod!"

[robPOD]

Lol, more teasing I wish they would just bring them out.

[CoreWeb]

No one really gives a **** about the iPhone. The minority might, but when its comes down to it, the iPhone is lacking in functionality and very expensive.

The majority have seen through this phone, a bit of expensive eye candy that isn't very functional.

This is the reason why Apple have to promote it again.

Wake me up when Apple release a proper smartphone.

From what I've observed of the demo, the touch screen maybe nice but the GUI is cumbersome. Apple will have to significantly improve the GUI for this to be a pleasure to use.

I got the impression that it was the other way around... that the majority were wowed, and a few (apparently including yourself) thought it useless.

It is a very nice phone. It does things no other phone does. Very few people mention multitasking, yet I have no idea how to do this or if it is even possible on any other phone... try e-mailing someone a photo while talking to them. Or better yet, try taking a photo while talking to someone, and then e-mailing it to them, all without hanging up.

Also, the phone's biggest advantage is most likely its simplicity. Most of the "features" on smartphones or even normal phones may never be used more than once, because they are too cumbersome. Address books, even - these may be used for the odd phone call at the moment, not the every day call.

Very few people have used one, and I certainly haven't, so I can't tell for sure, but the iPhone appears to be THE OPPOSITE of cumbersome.

But the features which many people seem to ignore:
1. Ease-of-use
2. Multitasking
3. Web browser (only similar one in Nokia S60, and both are built on the same engine - don't even bring up MSIE mobile or any of the others. They just don't compare.)
4. iPod (other phones may have music capabilities, but... who uses them (much))

All of those features seem to get ignored.

[AidenShaw]

Address books, even - these may be used for the odd phone call at the moment, not the every day call.

True - most calls (on my WM5 phone) are either "reply to recent call in history" or "speed dial from the short list".

However, when you need the address book it can be a huge help.

(Like when the plane flight's been cancelled, the line at the counter is an hour long, and you have AmEx Travel's help number in your Exchange contact list - and you can get rebooked on the next flight during the time that the line moves forward 4 people, so you exit the line and go to the gate and fly....

Or when you're late, or you arrive at the meeting site and it's 7 towers around a courtyard and you don't have the building/suite/floor/room info in the email that's already on the phone.)

[rlreif]

I'm not missing that at all. I have no problem accepting 3G--if it adds no cost or bulk--and in fact I want it (though it's not my top priority).

The reasons not to intro 3G in the very first version are business decisions on Apple's end--and I'm speculating that this call will not in fact backfire. Meanwhile those who demand 3G will get what they want down the road.



Wow, I think we have a post worth bookmarking (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=3512246&postcount=120) for Son of Thread 500 :D

Good to know your view is the "majority" ;) And here I was thinking the majority currently know nothing more than "iPod good!" and "iPhone? Must be like iPod!"

if by business decision you mean that early adopters will buy the first version for $600 then buy another one when a truly usefiul one with all the bugs worked out for another $600 then you have a point, but i dont see how thats good for us.

as far as a 3g radio adding bulk, cost or battery drain i think that all 3 would be a solid no. i already talked about 3g vs. wifi as far as battery drain, with wifi being far worse due to the fact that its always on. as for bulk, go down to your local cingular store and hold a samsung blackjack, and a blackberry pearl. both have 3g radios, both have all of the features of the iphone, though not the great interface (but thats just software anyhow) they both have smaller screens, but both get great reviews everywhere... they are both considerably smaller than the iphone, and they both can be had for free with a contract (at the cingular stores its $199 with a contract, which is still a bargain compared to $600 for the iphone, but both can be had for free from amazon.com with a contract)...

now if both of those phones are free, smaller, have all the same hardware features, plus a 3g radio, and have been available for months there is no excuse for apple leaving out a 3g radio and charging $600 with a contract other than to take advantage of people who dont know any better... i dont mean to be brash, but im right!... there is no disadvantage to having a 3g radio to anyone! if there is no 3g in your neighborhood then the phone will operate on an edge network, but at least it will be futureproofed because very soon there will be 3g in your neighborhood, and why in gods name would you want to have to buy 2 of these things??

[skinnylegs]

go down to your local cingular store and hold a samsung blackjack, and a blackberry pearl. both have 3g radios, both have all of the features of the iphoneHuh? You *must* be kidding me. LOL

[rlreif]

Huh? You *must* be kidding me. LOL

ok then... what hardware features does the iphone have that those 2 dont??

[nagromme]

if by business decision you mean that early adopters will buy the first version for $600 then buy another one when a truly usefiul one with all the bugs worked out for another $600 then you have a point, but i dont see how thats good for us.

What bugs are you referring to? My point had nothing to do with bugs (though every new product of any kind has some, generally minor).

What's good for us is that 3G is coming to iPhone. Obviously, people who need 3G won't by TWO iPhones :confused: They'll wait, and I will sympathize with their impatience :)

(Also note that the iPhone starts at $499.)

ok then... what hardware features does the iphone have that those 2 dont??

I'm not sure you're serious, but I'll start the list with the big obvious stuff--a multitouch screen (of large size and res to boot) and 4 to 8 GB storage vs. those two with 64 MB :o and let other posters keep carrying the list from there...

http://na.blackberry.com/eng/devices/device-detail.jsp?navId=H0,C101,P203#tab_tab_specifications
http://www.mobiledia.com/phones/samsung/blackjack.html

And I will also ask if you believe that only "hardware" features have value, or whether software features are useful too? Because therein lie the usability advantages of the iPhone.

It seems as though you may be CHOOSING to define "features" in whatever way makes the iPhone look like it has little to offer. Kind of a word game I guess. Anything the iPhone does that is unique doesn't count, then? I think many phone buyers will disagree :)

[Zadillo]

ok then... what hardware features does the iphone have that those 2 dont??

Touchscreens maybe?

Much larger screens anyway (especially considering how Cingular plays up the media playback capabilities of the Blackjack, this is hard to ignore).

And I don't think the Blackberry Pearl even has a 3G radio, just EDGE (do they even have a GSM blackberry with 3G)?

And from what I've seen, the Blackjack has notoriously poor battery life as it is.

The Blackberry Pearl probably isn't a fair comparison either way though, as it is trying to be something else.

For that matter, neither is the Blackjack; the Blackjack is basically a prototypical Windows Mobile Smartphone device, and designed to compete with the Q or the Blackberry.

[synth3tik]

It's the one phone that will attract all the ladies

[rlreif]

What bugs are you referring to? My point had nothing to do with bugs (though every new product of any kind has some, generally minor).

What's good for us is that 3G is coming to iPhone. Obviously, people who need 3G won't by TWO iPhones :confused: They'll wait, and I will sympathize with their impatience :)

(Also note that the iPhone starts at $499.)

but the thing is is that 3g is old news, at least on the coasts... its like porche releasing a brand new 60k car with a carburator, and saying that in the future they might add fuel injection, it doesnt make any sense... on engadget, gizmodo, etc... my sentiments are agreed apon, its only here where nobody can be even the least bit critical of apple, lest they be crucified, where anyone would think that its ok to charge $600 for an edge phone in 2007... i love apple as much or more than everyone here, but apple has been known to occasionally make a mistake, and this is one

[nagromme]

but the thing is is that 3g is old news, at least on the coasts... its like porche releasing a brand new 60k car with a carburator, and saying that in the future they might add fuel injection, it doesnt make any sense... on engadget, gizmodo, etc... my sentiments are agreed apon, its only here where nobody can be even the least bit critical of apple, lest they be crucified, where anyone would think that its ok to charge $600 for an edge phone in 2007... i love apple as much or more than everyone here, but apple has been known to occasionally make a mistake, and this is one

I think we agree that 3G would be better. We disagree that Apple will sell plenty all the same, I guess?

It may indeed be a mistake--we don't know the reasons and they may be really stupid ones--but I think the iPhone will do very well even so, until 3G comes out. (Not that 3G is a must just because it's been out a while... the coverage is what the coverage is. Nor does one feature dictate the price--the price comes from ALL the features.)

[Zadillo]

but the thing is is that 3g is old news, at least on the coasts... its like porche releasing a brand new 60k car with a carburator, and saying that in the future they might add fuel injection, it doesnt make any sense... on engadget, gizmodo, etc... my sentiments are agreed apon, its only here where nobody can be even the least bit critical of apple, lest they be crucified, where anyone would think that its ok to charge $600 for an edge phone in 2007... i love apple as much or more than everyone here, but apple has been known to occasionally make a mistake, and this is one

I understand your logic, but the iPhone costs aren't just about the wireless data technology involved. Anyone paying $500/$600 for the iPhone is buying it for the UI, the multitouch stuff, the iTunes functionality, etc. Someone who has an absolute need of a 3G device would of course not buy the iPhone (just as they might avoid, say, a GSM Blackberry with only EDGE).

I think it's only a mistake if Apple had the option to put in full 3G support without sacrificing battery life, making it even more expensive and just decided not do it for the hell of it. I'm going out on a limb here though and assuming that there are technical reasons behind not including 3G support just yet.

Either way, I think everyone expects subsequent iPhones to get upgrades in this area.

[rlreif]

Touchscreens maybe?

Much larger screens anyway (especially considering how Cingular plays up the media playback capabilities of the Blackjack, this is hard to ignore).

And I don't think the Blackberry Pearl even has a 3G radio, just EDGE (do they even have a GSM blackberry with 3G)?

And from what I've seen, the Blackjack has notoriously poor battery life as it is.

The Blackberry Pearl probably isn't a fair comparison either way though, as it is trying to be something else.

For that matter, neither is the Blackjack; the Blackjack is basically a prototypical Windows Mobile Smartphone device, and designed to compete with the Q or the Blackberry.

ok first off in my post that you were commenting on initially, i mentioned that the iphone has a bigger screen, i already admitted that... everything else you are claiming you have no idea about, use google and find out the facts before you speculate.

YES they are both 3g phones on cingular.

touchscreens add little to no bulk, the multitouch interface is software only

the blackjack works all day on a charge, and comes with an additional battery and charger in the box, in the iphone you cant even remove the battery! and we have no idea whatsoever what the iphone's battery life will be

as far as your other comment about the pearl 'trying to be something else' im dying to hear an explanation of what that is! could you be any more vague?? lets see its a smart phone, with media player, keyboard, it has a camera, it surfs the web, does email.... what exactly is it trying to be that isnt fair to compare??

[Zadillo]

ok first off in my post that you were commenting on initially, i mentioned that the iphone has a bigger screen, i already admitted that... everything else you are claiming you have no idea about, use google and find out the facts before you speculate.

YES they are both 3g phones on cingular.

touchscreens add little to no bulk, the multitouch interface is software only

the blackjack works all day on a charge, and comes with an additional battery and charger in the box, in the iphone you cant even remove the battery! and we have no idea whatsoever what the iphone's battery life will be

as far as your other comment about the pearl 'trying to be something else' im dying to hear an explanation of what that is! could you be any more vague?? lets see its a smart phone, with media player, keyboard, it has a camera, it surfs the web, does email.... what exactly is it trying to be that isnt fair to compare??

What do you mean "touchscreens add little to no bulk"? You asked what hardware features the iPhone has that the Pearl and BlackJack don't, and I said touchscreens. I have no idea what point you're trying to make. I know they don't add bulk, but neither the Pearl or the BlackJack support it.

Re: the BlackJack; I'm basing my comments on the numerous threads where people complain about its battery life.

The Blackberry Pearl on Cingular at least absolutely is not a 3G phone; it supports GPRS and EDGE only.

And you're telling me I don't know what I'm talking about?

Regarding my comment about the Pearl; I mean that it simply is trying to be a Blackberry in a standard phone form factor. I didn't mean that as a knock, only that it is a different type of device.

Calm down, seriously.

[rlreif]

What do you mean "touchscreens add little to no bulk"? You asked what hardware features the iPhone has that the Pearl and BlackJack don't, and I said touchscreens. I have no idea what point you're trying to make. I know they don't add bulk, but neither the Pearl or the BlackJack support it.

Re: the BlackJack; I'm basing my comments on the numerous threads where people complain about its battery life.

The Blackberry Pearl on Cingular at least absolutely is not a 3G phone; it supports GPRS and EDGE only.

And you're telling me I don't know what I'm talking about?

Regarding my comment about the Pearl; I mean that it simply is trying to be a Blackberry in a standard phone form factor. I didn't mean that as a knock, only that it is a different type of device.

Calm down, seriously.

im perfectly calm, its you koolaid drinking fanboys that cant stand even the slightest criticsm of apple that should calm down... ive been using apple since the apple 2e. just because you love your kids do you never admit their faults??

i stand corrected with the pearl's data connection, someone yesterday had one and told me it was 3g, they were wrong, i just googled it. but interestingly the fact that even fairly savy consumers dont know the difference illustrates a point someone else made about apple leaving it out as a business decision. i guess on that hand it makes sense, though it isnt good for us consumers at all.. its even a bit misleading... remember jobs called it 3g in his keynote, and a lot of peoploe will think it is... i guess its good for business but its annoying, like when apple puts a crappy graphincs card in one of their computers... most people dont notice but it sucks none the less


as far as the pearl 'trying to be a blackberry' what the hell is the difference?? in the beginning there were treos and blackberries, now there are winmo devices, and a few symbian ones, soon there will be iphones... they are all smartphones, dude... the target market for blackberries is the same as all the others, they are all phones, with multimedia functions, mp3 players, cameras, web browsers... your argument is like saying that its unfair to compare dell laptops with apple ones because they are trying to be completely different things... one may be better than the other, but that is exactly what 'comparison' is

[TheSlush]

Heh... iPhone still says "cingular"

So... Cingular or AT&T... which one is it?

As we've seen, the first iPhone images showed the name "Cingular" up in the corner. Then the iPhone television commercial during Super Bowl XLI showed "AT&T" in the corner, presumably corresponding to AT&T's announced intention to phase out the Cingular brand after their merger.

So surely the switch back to "Cingular" in this photo can't just be an oversight, right? I would presume that AT&T is dictating which name Apple displays in these promos, since that is the one tiny piece of pixel real estate that is essential to AT&T's branding on the iPhone.

Perhaps AT&T felt the iPhone commercial jumped the gun too quickly in replacing Cingular's name? Perhaps the Cingular management made a stink? Or does this back-and-forth simply mean that the brands are in flux and nothing's yet decided?

[chatster18]

I'm going to get one but not yet. I'll likely wait for the 2nd gen

Me 2 :cool:

[Zadillo]

im perfectly calm, its you koolaid drinking fanboys that cant stand even the slightest criticsm of apple that should calm down... ive been using apple since the apple 2e. just because you love your kids do you never admit their faults??

i stand corrected with the pearl's data connection, someone yesterday had one and told me it was 3g, they were wrong, i just googled it. but interestingly the fact that even fairly savy consumers dont know the difference illustrates a point someone else made about apple leaving it out as a business decision. i guess on that hand it makes sense, though it isnt good for us consumers at all.. its even a bit misleading... remember jobs called it 3g in his keynote, and a lot of peoploe will think it is... i guess its good for business but its annoying, like when apple puts a crappy graphincs card in one of their computers... most people dont notice but it sucks none the less


as far as the pearl 'trying to be a blackberry' what the hell is the difference?? in the beginning there were treos and blackberries, now there are winmo devices, and a few symbian ones, soon there will be iphones... they are all smartphones, dude... the target market for blackberries is the same as all the others, they are all phones, with multimedia functions, mp3 players, cameras, web browsers... your argument is like saying that its unfair to compare dell laptops with apple ones because they are trying to be completely different things... one may be better than the other, but that is exactly what 'comparison' is

Can you lay off the insults? I'm not a koolaid drinking fanboy and I haven't said that Apple can't be criticized.

Sheesh.

I think you might have misunderstood my point about the Blackjack and Blackberry Pearl though.

Yes, they are all smartphones, but the specific device functionality is different for each, and they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Just looking at the Blackberries alone, there is a pretty wide gulf in actual usability between something like the Blackberry 8800 and the Pearl, just due to the form factor and different type of keyboard.

And similarly, there is a significant difference between devices like the Blackjack and the Q running Windows Mobile Smartphone Edition, and something like, say, the Treo 750 or the Cingular 8525 running

These devices may all be smartphones, but there are a lot of differences in what their strengths are. The Blackberry is the epitome of a device aimed at e-mail, for example.

It's a reason why you have Blackberry-like devices like the Q and Blackjack running Windows Mobile Smartphone, and devices like the Treo 750 and Cingular 8525 and their full-fledged Windows Mobile OS.

This is really the fundamental point I'm trying to get at. A Blackberry and a Cingular 8525 may all have "e-mail" as a feature, but they aren't all equally good at it. And similarly, the Blackberry and the 8525 may both have web browsers, but they also aren't all equally good at it.

My point with the iPhone is that I don't think it is trying necessarily to compete head-on with devices like the Treo, the Blackberries, the Q, the Blackjack, etc.

There are things that each of these devices will do well, but not all for the same type of audience.

As it is, the strength of the iPhone will lie generally in its full screen multitouch interface (and this would also be its weakness, compared to the people who depend on blackberry-like keyboards for lots of text entry).

Really, I think the role of the iPhone is more to offer some "smartphone-like functionality" to people who don't actually want to deal with the ins and outs of the Palm OS, Windows Mobile, Blackberries, etc.

I don't think Apple is wholly off-base here.

If you look at the marketing for the Blackjack and the Treo 680, for example, they are aiming them largely at consumers; they're trying to sell the idea that these have more full featured capabilities than the typical cellphone someone might buy.

But I think that in reality, a Treo 680 for example has a lot of quirks, as does the Blackjack, the Q, etc........... they are fine for a certain audience, but for people who are interested in the ability to run more full featured e-mail and web browsing and music playing functions, it isn't necessarily the best platform.

The strength of these devices are definitely clear, but I don't think that the Blackberries and Treos and Q's of the world are highly suited for consumer use.

The role of the iPhone, I think, is to have a sort of hybrid - the more advanced functionality of "smartphones" but with a very slick and easy to use interface that wouldn't have the same kind of learning curve or issues that Palm OS, WinMob, etc. have.

The iPhone isn't necessarily supposed to get a hardcore Blackberry user to look at it and say "Oh, yes, this will suit all my needs". But I think it can attract someone who might be looking at a new phone, like the idea of mp3 playback, but find the music players on normal phones to be kind of limited, but also find the Treos and Q's to be a little more cumbersome UI and OS-wise than they want to deal with.

-Zadillo

[rlreif]

Can you lay off the insults? I'm not a koolaid drinking fanboy and I haven't said that Apple can't be criticized.

Sheesh.

I think you might have misunderstood my point about the Blackjack and Blackberry Pearl though.

Yes, they are all smartphones, but the specific device functionality is different for each, and they all have their strengths and weaknesses. Just looking at the Blackberries alone, there is a pretty wide gulf in actual usability between something like the Blackberry 8800 and the Pearl, just due to the form factor and different type of keyboard.

And similarly, there is a significant difference between devices like the Blackjack and the Q running Windows Mobile Smartphone Edition, and something like, say, the Treo 750 or the Cingular 8525 running

These devices may all be smartphones, but there are a lot of differences in what their strengths are. The Blackberry is the epitome of a device aimed at e-mail, for example.

It's a reason why you have Blackberry-like devices like the Q and Blackjack running Windows Mobile Smartphone, and devices like the Treo 750 and Cingular 8525 and their full-fledged Windows Mobile OS.

This is really the fundamental point I'm trying to get at. A Blackberry and a Cingular 8525 may all have "e-mail" as a feature, but they aren't all equally good at it. And similarly, the Blackberry and the 8525 may both have web browsers, but they also aren't all equally good at it.

My point with the iPhone is that I don't think it is trying necessarily to compete head-on with devices like the Treo, the Blackberries, the Q, the Blackjack, etc.

There are things that each of these devices will do well, but not all for the same type of audience.

As it is, the strength of the iPhone will lie generally in its full screen multitouch interface (and this would also be its weakness, compared to the people who depend on blackberry-like keyboards for lots of text entry).

Really, I think the role of the iPhone is more to offer some "smartphone-like functionality" to people who don't actually want to deal with the ins and outs of the Palm OS, Windows Mobile, Blackberries, etc.

I don't think Apple is wholly off-base here.

If you look at the marketing for the Blackjack and the Treo 680, for example, they are aiming them largely at consumers; they're trying to sell the idea that these have more full featured capabilities than the typical cellphone someone might buy.

But I think that in reality, a Treo 680 for example has a lot of quirks, as does the Blackjack, the Q, etc........... they are fine for a certain audience, but for people who are interested in the ability to run more full featured e-mail and web browsing and music playing functions, it isn't necessarily the best platform.

The strength of these devices are definitely clear, but I don't think that the Blackberries and Treos and Q's of the world are highly suited for consumer use.

The role of the iPhone, I think, is to have a sort of hybrid - the more advanced functionality of "smartphones" but with a very slick and easy to use interface that wouldn't have the same kind of learning curve or issues that Palm OS, WinMob, etc. have.

The iPhone isn't necessarily supposed to get a hardcore Blackberry user to look at it and say "Oh, yes, this will suit all my needs". But I think it can attract someone who might be looking at a new phone, like the idea of mp3 playback, but find the music players on normal phones to be kind of limited, but also find the Treos and Q's to be a little more cumbersome UI and OS-wise than they want to deal with.

-Zadillo

its you who first insulted me, not the other way around, i was having this debate with another user all evening before you chimed in, and there were zero insults exchanged... you reap what you sow... but back on topic...

though i disagree about the intended audience or at least usefulness to certain audiences we will have to agree to disagree... i see your point, but disagree... i have been using a treo 650 since it forst came out, and not as a business tool... in my business cellphones arent used at all, in fact that would be dangerous... also i dont see any difference between the 650 and the 680 besides the fruity colors... actually the 680 is upgraded mildly, but the only reason its intended audience is the consumer is that that is the way it was marketed, and the price was brought down (now if thats a way to make a phone more aimed at the consumer apple is way off base with a price point of $600)

you say that the iphone is better for people who are looking for a better interface for full featured web browsing, and that brings me straight back to my original gripe this evening: no 3g! if the big point of the iphone is full featured web browsing than what the hell is the deal with edge... used dialup lately?? edge is about the same speed, it sucks, i use it every day, and i guess its better than nothing, but the fact that 3g is commonplace in free phones and not in a $600 "meant for full featured web browsing" phone put out by apple, the best multimedia hardware company on the planet boggles my mind, and the only logical explanation is that they are banking on consumers not knowing the difference when they plunk down their hard earned money... it sucks and its anti consumer

[SiliconAddict]

Yep got the e-mail. I immediately unsubscribed. This was before I knew I would have to go with Cingular to get an iPhone. :(

[MacbookSwitcher]

I got the impression that it was the other way around... that the majority were wowed, and a few (apparently including yourself) thought it useless.

It is a very nice phone. It does things no other phone does. Very few people mention multitasking, yet I have no idea how to do this or if it is even possible on any other phone... try e-mailing someone a photo while talking to them. Or better yet, try taking a photo while talking to someone, and then e-mailing it to them, all without hanging up.

Also, the phone's biggest advantage is most likely its simplicity. Most of the "features" on smartphones or even normal phones may never be used more than once, because they are too cumbersome. Address books, even - these may be used for the odd phone call at the moment, not the every day call.

Very few people have used one, and I certainly haven't, so I can't tell for sure, but the iPhone appears to be THE OPPOSITE of cumbersome.

But the features which many people seem to ignore:
1. Ease-of-use
2. Multitasking
3. Web browser (only similar one in Nokia S60, and both are built on the same engine - don't even bring up MSIE mobile or any of the others. They just don't compare.)
4. iPod (other phones may have music capabilities, but... who uses them (much))

All of those features seem to get ignored.

You are actually wrong on this. The Windows Mobile Treo does every single one of the things you mentioned. Windows Mobile is a multitasking OS that can run multiple processes at once. I have actually taken a picture while talking on the phone. You can browse the web, switch to an SMS, then switch right back to pocket IE, all while listening to music with Windows Media Player.

[Zadillo]

its you who first insulted me, not the other way around, i was having this debate with another user all evening before you chimed in, and there were zero insults exchanged... you reap what you sow... but back on topic...

though i disagree about the intended audience or at least usefulness to certain audiences we will have to agree to disagree... i see your point, but disagree... i have been using a treo 650 since it forst came out, and not as a business tool... in my business cellphones arent used at all, in fact that would be dangerous... also i dont see any difference between the 650 and the 680 besides the fruity colors... actually the 680 is upgraded mildly, but the only reason its intended audience is the consumer is that that is the way it was marketed, and the price was brought down (now if thats a way to make a phone more aimed at the consumer apple is way off base with a price point of $600)

you say that the iphone is better for people who are looking for a better interface for full featured web browsing, and that brings me straight back to my original gripe this evening: no 3g! if the big point of the iphone is full featured web browsing than what the hell is the deal with edge... used dialup lately?? edge is about the same speed, it sucks, i use it every day, and i guess its better than nothing, but the fact that 3g is commonplace in free phones and not in a $600 "meant for full featured web browsing" phone put out by apple, the best multimedia hardware company on the planet boggles my mind, and the only logical explanation is that they are banking on consumers not knowing the difference when they plunk down their hard earned money... it sucks and its anti consumer

Where exactly did I insult you? I've looked through my original response to you, and I don't see it:

Touchscreens maybe?

Much larger screens anyway (especially considering how Cingular plays up the media playback capabilities of the Blackjack, this is hard to ignore).

And I don't think the Blackberry Pearl even has a 3G radio, just EDGE (do they even have a GSM blackberry with 3G)?

And from what I've seen, the Blackjack has notoriously poor battery life as it is.

The Blackberry Pearl probably isn't a fair comparison either way though, as it is trying to be something else.

For that matter, neither is the Blackjack; the Blackjack is basically a prototypical Windows Mobile Smartphone device, and designed to compete with the Q or the Blackberry.

Where exactly do you see an insult to yourself in there? If it's the "touchscreens maybe?" line, I hardly see how that is an insult. Again, it was a response to the question about what was different hardware-wise.

Anyway, about the Treo 680; you are right; outside of the upgraded Phone app, the actual device isn't that different from the Treo 650. The difference is in the marketing; Palm has been trying to market the Treo 680 to a new audience, to consumers, to expand it beyond the realm of the typical Treo user.

My problem with this is that the Palm OS has a lot of issues with it, and I personally don't think it is necessarily suitable for some of the people Palm is trying to push the Treo 680 on (like you, I also have a Treo 650, and the things I have to deal with it are exactly why I don't normally recommend it to some people).

Anyway, yes, I agree with you about the lack of 3G; full web browsing over EDGE will be problematic (as you and I no doubt know from using the Treo 650).

Again though, I don't think Apple's intention is to be anti-consumer, or even to bank on people not knowing the difference. I do think they might be expecting people to be using the wifi a lot more though (which is why they have emphasized its ability to switch automatically between wifi and edge).

Realistically I think that a lot of the iPhone will be driven more by widgets, etc. which are better suited for EDGE at this point, and I think the expectation would be that the full web browsing would be done more commonly when wifi is around.

Either way, again, Apple has already made it clear that 3G is coming - Jobs said it himself during the unveiling; if they were trying to be anti-consumer they would specifically say 3G wasn't important or that they had no plans for it.

I am again going to make an assumption that there are technical reasons behind the fact that the initial iPhone device doesn't have 3G.

I'm still going to assume it is a battery life issue, looking at the battery life complaints of the Blackjack (again, read through any cingular/blackjack forum and you'll see tons of users complaining about it.... it's not like I'm making this up).

But we all know 3G is coming to the iPhone, so I don't really see the point of continuing to harp on it at this point.

[nagromme]

Question: do 3G monthly plans cost more than EDGE?

I'd want to be able to have 3G, but if edge truly is dialup speed, I'd go for it--if it lowered my monthly bill.

Right now when I travel with my laptop I HAVE to use dialup. A phone jack is the only thing I'm sure to find in every home, office, or motel. It's no DSL but it does the job (and many people use it as their daily Internet--I did until 6 months ago myself, and I've run an Internet-based business for years).

If an EDGE iPhone can equal the dialup I already use... but without needing to find a phone jack or lug a laptop, that will be a big step up for me.

What kind of price difference would I be looking at to choose a 3G plan over EDGE?

(Of course the best is when I can find WiFi--which gives me fast access with my laptop and will from an iPhone too.)

You are actually wrong on this. The Windows Mobile Treo does every single one of the things you mentioned.

You mean it does #2, but not the other 3 he listed? And maybe #3: Does Windows Mobile browse full Web pages just as you see them on a computer? Or Web pages in "mobile form"?

The Treo certainly doesn't have an iPod built in... not with 128 MB storage :p (To say nothing of the ease-of-use that defines the iPod, and is finally surpassed by the iPhone.)

http://www.palm.com/us/products/smartphones/treo750/specs.html

For comparison: http://www.apple.com/iphone/technology/specs.html

(Wow, that Treo has about the same dimensions as iPhone... except for being over 3/4" thick! The iPhone is less than half an inch. As the owner of an old .75" iPod--thinner than the Treo--I can say I would NOT want to pocket a Treo every day if I had a choice in the matter.)

As it is, the strength of the iPhone will lie generally in its full screen multitouch interface (and this would also be its weakness, compared to the people who depend on blackberry-like keyboards for lots of text entry).

True--some will prefer one kind of keyboard, some the other (once they actually try both for a time). I can't yet know which I'd prefer myself for typing, although I'll gladly take the multitouch regardless, for the sake of screen size and flexibility.

I wouldn't rush to assume that tiny physical keys are superior, though. That's something people should decide after trying. Physical keys do provide valuable tactile feedback as opposed to just audible and visible. BUT, you are looking at your phone anyway, so touch-typing is not the goal. And with physical buttons you must avoid pressing neighboring buttons. But with the iPhone, you are MEANT to "press" neighoring buttons--the phone reads the button in the center of your press. (Multitouch to the rescue.) So unless you go really fast, I'd bet it's hard to hit the wrong letter on the iPhone. Learning curve? Sure... but it sounds worth gaining habits.

From a Treo review: "Although you can feel each key below your thumbs, they are small enough and spaced tightly enough that your thumb winds up resting on more than one key at a time when typing. If you don't press straight down, or if your thumb is off center slightly, it is too easy to press a neighboring key instead of your intended target. "

http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/review_treo_750/index.php?p=o2

Anyway, about the Treo 680; you are right; outside of the upgraded Phone app, the actual device isn't that different from the Treo 650. The difference is in the marketing; Palm has been trying to market the Treo 680 to a new audience, to consumers, to expand it beyond the realm of the typical Treo user.

Well, not just marketing: user interface and ease of use. Same reason the iPod surpassed earlier players. This is THE big thing the iPhone offers. (It will matter to some more than others.)

[suneohair]

rlreif:

Where in the keynote did Jobs call it 3G? I am pretty sure he didn't.

[suneohair]

Question: do 3G monthly plans cost more than EDGE?

I'd want to be able to have 3G, but if edge truly is dialup speed, I'd go for it--if it lowered my monthly bill.

..snips...

What kind of price difference would I be looking at to choose a 3G plan over EDGE?

(Of course the best is when I can find WiFi--which gives me fast access with my laptop and will from an iPhone too.)



As far as I know, most carriers don't differentiate between data types. A data plan is a data plan, and you will get whatever your phone supports in areas where it is available.

Hence, 3G if it supports it if not you back down to EDGE. I am pretty sure they cost the same no matter what.

[rlreif]

Question: do 3G monthly plans cost more than EDGE?

I'd want to be able to have 3G, but if edge truly is dialup speed, I'd go for it--if it lowered my monthly bill.

Right now when I travel with my laptop I HAVE to use dialup. A phone jack is the only thing I'm sure to find in every home, office, or motel. It's no DSL but it does the job (and many people use it as their daily Internet--I did until 6 months ago myself, and I've run an Internet-based business for years).

If an EDGE iPhone can equal the dialup I already use... but without needing to find a phone jack or lug a laptop, that will be a big step up for me.

What kind of price difference would I be looking at to choose a 3G plan over EDGE?

(Of course the best is when I can find WiFi--which gives me fast access with my laptop and will from an iPhone too.)



You mean it does #2, but not the other 3 he listed? And maybe #3: Does Windows Mobile browse full Web pages just as you see them on a computer? Or Web pages in "mobile form"?

The Treo certainly doesn't have an iPod built in... not with 128 MB storage :p (To say nothing of the ease-of-use that defines the iPod, and is finally surpassed by the iPhone.)

http://www.palm.com/us/products/smartphones/treo750/specs.html

For comparison: http://www.apple.com/iphone/technology/specs.html

(Wow, that Treo has about the same dimensions as iPhone... except for being over 3/4" thick! The iPhone is less than half an inch. As the owner of an old .75" iPod--thinner than the Treo--I can say I would NOT want to pocket a Treo every day if I had a choice in the matter.)



True--some will prefer one kind of keyboard, some the other (once they actually try both for a time). I can't yet know which I'd prefer myself for typing, although I'll gladly take the multitouch regardless, for the sake of screen size and flexibility.

I wouldn't rush to assume that tiny physical keys are superior, though. That's something people should decide after trying. Physical keys do provide valuable tactile feedback as opposed to just audible and visible. BUT, you are looking at your phone anyway, so touch-typing is not the goal. And with physical buttons you must avoid pressing neighboring buttons. But with the iPhone, you are MEANT to "press" neighoring buttons--the phone reads the button in the center of your press. (Multitouch to the rescue.) So unless you go really fast, I'd bet it's hard to hit the wrong letter on the iPhone. Learning curve? Sure... but it sounds worth gaining habits.

From a Treo review: "Although you can feel each key below your thumbs, they are small enough and spaced tightly enough that your thumb winds up resting on more than one key at a time when typing. If you don't press straight down, or if your thumb is off center slightly, it is too easy to press a neighboring key instead of your intended target. "

http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/review_treo_750/index.php?p=o2

on cingular data is data... it costs $40 per month unlimited whether you use edge or 3g.... the only break is if the device is a 'smartphone' vs a 'pda'... the blackjack for example is classified as a smartphone therefore the data is $20 per month unlimited even though it uses 3g... the treo is a pda so it costs 40 even though it uses edge... i think the touch screen has something to do with the designation but dont quote me on that... i dont know who decides these things...

also the treo does have an ipod built in if you set it up that way... ptunes is actualy pretty good, but its 3rd party software... i like that about the treo the third party software is pretty cool... with ptunes and a 2 gig sd card the music function works pretty well... im sure with a 4gb card it would be better... obviously the iphone will excell at the music function and will blow it away, but the treo has been around for 4 years, and it deserves some cred

[rlreif]

rlreif:

Where in the keynote did Jobs call it 3G? I am pretty sure he didn't.

well... im pretty sure he did near the beginning... i havnt seen it in some time ... im looking now for a written transcript of the event

[rlreif]

rlreif:

Where in the keynote did Jobs call it 3G? I am pretty sure he didn't.

found it.

http://www.macrumors.com/events/mwsf2007.html

at 9:43 he said "3g with a rotary dial"

its misleading... i remember after watching the keynote arguing with my dad who swore it was 3g based on that comment... i had to explain to him that edge is not 3g

[nagromme]

As far as I know, most carriers don't differentiate between data types. A data plan is a data plan, and you will get whatever your phone supports in areas where it is available.
on cingular data is data... it costs $40 per month unlimited whether you use edge or 3g.... the only break is if the device is a 'smartphone' vs a 'pda'...

Cool--thanks for the info. I can tell I'm NOT going to like what cell phone plans cost :o But it's about time for me to enter the 21st century finally.

well... im pretty sure he did near the beginning... i havnt seen it in some time ... im looking now for a written transcript of the event

Right, he did--I have the video podcast, I'll check the quote. (That MacRumors summary isn't a full transcript.)

[nagromme]

Found it, at about 50:15 in the iTunes video podcast.

Jobs says: "iPhone is a quad-band GSM + EDGE phone. We have decided--we have decided to go with the most popular international standard, which is GSM. We're on that bandwagon, headed on that roadmap, and plan to make 3G phones and all sorts of other amazing things in the future."

No timetable, but it's a plan rather than a mere possibility :)

(MacRumors' mention of 3G in their summary was simply commenting on a joke image of a "3G" 3rd-gen iPod with a rotary phone dial.)

PS, The one thing iPhone clearly needs from the demo is speed-dial right on the main telephony screen for a few common numbers, separate from the larger contacts directory. A strip of 4x2 icons at the bottom would be great--8 contacts, and more if you scroll sideways. (I don't care so much about voice dialing: it's slower than tapping what I want, and only works "most of the time." It's more needed on a traditional hard-to-navigate phone.) Anyone who thinks I can't criticize Apple (which my history belies) simply need wait and see what I say if the iPhone comes out without some kind of speed-dial :)

EDIT: I think a speed-dial widget added to the iPhone's home menu might be nice, in addition to speed-dial access from the phone screen.

[a456]

More like "That gives you just enough time to figure out how much it's going to cost you to break your current contract." :D

Go :apple: !!

And enough time to figure out how to justify the cost to your nearest and dearest - luckily in the UK we have a bit longer to come up with reasons we can't live without this phone. Mine is largely centred on my inability to write text messages on a standard phone due to dumb ass intuitive text.

[synth3tik]

I was really excited to see a new iPhone angle.

[Stella]

You are actually wrong on this. The Windows Mobile Treo does every single one of the things you mentioned. Windows Mobile is a multitasking OS that can run multiple processes at once. I have actually taken a picture while talking on the phone. You can browse the web, switch to an SMS, then switch right back to pocket IE, all while listening to music with Windows Media Player.

As does Symbian.

The majority of Symbian phones does everything the iPhone can AND MORE!! Plus my E70 very very rarely crashes.

The iPhone is nothing special, apart from the multi-touch touch screen UI.

[Zadillo]

As does Symbian.

The majority of Symbian phones does everything the iPhone can AND MORE!! Plus my E70 very very rarely crashes.

The iPhone is nothing special, apart from the multi-touch touch screen UI.

Do people really not appreciate the OS interface at all?

Honestly, it is kind of amazing to me that we are still having this discussion.

People look at the core featureset, and say "Oh, hey, these both do e-mail, web browsing, can play mp3's, etc." and conclude that the iPhone is therefore no different from anything else and not special.

But this really doesn't make sense to me.

My Treo 650 can certain browse the web, play mp3's, etc. but the question is, does it do a good job of these things?

Personally at least, I don't think so - even PocketTunes, which is a decent music playing app, is not really the same as what the iPod offers, or what the music playing capabilities of the iPhone represent. And the Palm OS Blazer browser is a piece of junk and is barely usable for anything.

I think there's a huge difference between whether something can accomplish the same functions, and how usable it is.

This is something I would think especially that Mac and iPod owners would recognize; in terms of basic capabilities, does the iPod do anything that another MP3 player doesn't? No, not really. But in terms of interface, usability, etc. it absolutely does.

Same with a Mac running OS X compared to a PC running Windows.

Now Symbian is a different matter, and I think Symbian is a nice OS too; but even then, there's a pretty big different in UI between a Symbian-based phone and the iPhone, and that is not a trivial difference.

-Zadillo

[Prints]

iPhone, yay! But can we get back to being an innovative COMPUTER co? Waiting for the new Mac Pro...:apple:

Wait no longer. It's out and on the Apple site. enjoy !

[danvdr]

Wait no longer. It's out and on the Apple site. enjoy !
Good call. Wonder if Multimedia has his yet?

[savar]

So... Cingular or AT&T... which one is it?

Isn't Cingular "the new AT&T"?

[Doozy]

Do people really not appreciate the OS interface at all?

Honestly, it is kind of amazing to me that we are still having this discussion.

People look at the core featureset, and say "Oh, hey, these both do e-mail, web browsing, can play mp3's, etc." and conclude that the iPhone is therefore no different from anything else and not special.

But this really doesn't make sense to me.

My Treo 650 can certain browse the web, play mp3's, etc. but the question is, does it do a good job of these things?

Personally at least, I don't think so - even PocketTunes, which is a decent music playing app, is not really the same as what the iPod offers, or what the music playing capabilities of the iPhone represent. And the Palm OS Blazer browser is a piece of junk and is barely usable for anything.

I think there's a huge difference between whether something can accomplish the same functions, and how usable it is.

This is something I would think especially that Mac and iPod owners would recognize; in terms of basic capabilities, does the iPod do anything that another MP3 player doesn't? No, not really. But in terms of interface, usability, etc. it absolutely does.

Same with a Mac running OS X compared to a PC running Windows.

Now Symbian is a different matter, and I think Symbian is a nice OS too; but even then, there's a pretty big different in UI between a Symbian-based phone and the iPhone, and that is not a trivial difference.

-Zadillo

Well said, I think people are just seeing the specs: email, web browsing, plays music. What people aren't remembering is that the iPhone is an iPod (with cover flow), browses the web (with safari, and shows the page as the designer intended a user to see it) and connects to POP and IMAP servers for email (using an email app which is way easier to use than the one on my Treo 650).

People are also forgetting about the new visual voice mail feature, how cool is it going to be to pick and choose which voice mail you want to listen to first.

Oh and I forgot it also plays movies on a large screen. Show me a phone that can do all of this intuitively.

[nagromme]

Well said, I think people are just seeing the specs: email, web browsing, plays music. What people aren't remembering is that the iPhone is an iPod (with cover flow), browses the web (with safari, and shows the page as the designer intended a user to see it) and connects to POP and IMAP servers for email (using an email app which is way easier to use than the one on my Treo 650).

People are also forgetting about the new visual voice mail feature, how cool is it going to be to pick and choose which voice mail you want to listen to first.

Oh and I forgot it also plays movies on a large screen. Show me a phone that can do all of this intuitively.

Actually, nobody's forgetting those things. Nobody is seeing the hardware specs and forgetting that software features also exist. Nobody thinks ease-of-use is irrelevant. Nobody thinks all user-interfaces are created equal. Nobody thinks little things like scrolling lists and zooming web pages are obscure or rare needs. Nobody sees the iPhone in use and thinks that using it is the same as using anything else. And whether the iPhone is the match for THEM specifically or not, nobody fails to realize that these things are a huge draw for many other people. All of these points are obvious.

Now, whether they're willing to ADMIT the above is of course another matter :) Some people are trying VERY hard to ignore the iPhone's features so that they can say it's the same as something else. Well they can say those words, but if they're willfiully ignoring such obvious issues, do they think it's a convincing stance? :p

The iPhone's not for them--THEY want something else. That's great, and THAT is what they would be saying in all honesty. Or, they DO want an iPhone, badly, and feel they have to justify that they chose a different device. No need for that--the justification is simple: iPhone's great but it's not out yet, so you bought one of the best devices that IS out. No shame in that. Enjoy what you have.

But pretending that other phones "do everything the iPhone can" is not honest. It's a word game that intentionally avoids iPhone's biggest features. I expect to hear someone say: "It depends on what the definition of 'do' is." :p

How else can one say that iPhone's rapid list management (drag scroll, flick fast-scroll with momentum, quick tap-access to any letter) isn't something that it "does"? Or that browsing Web pages that are FULL Web pages, same as you see at home, with double-tap to auto-zoom (or un-zoom) any column or image, and auto-sensing landscape view on demand? Those aren't things iPhone "does" that others don't? What about finding a music album visually? Coverflow in iTunes--which is one step below iPhone's gesture-control--gets me to an album much faster than scrolling a list of artwork icons (or heaven forbid, just names).

Or maybe, nobody on a smartphone scrolls lists or views Web pages or browses music, so features that make those things easier and better doen't matter? That comes across as trying WAY too hard to put down the iPhone.

And even in hardware, when people say X has all the specs iPhone does, they are generally ignoring screen size, storage capacity, and controls/sensors! :o So... hardware specs are all the matters, not software features... but screen, storage, and controls don't matter. Let me guess--thickness and weight probably don't matter either :p

If people prefer some other product, they should say that and not feel ashamed. They should be able to do that openly without pretending the iPhone doesn't do things that it does.

[SiliconAddict]

well... im pretty sure he did near the beginning... i havnt seen it in some time ... im looking now for a written transcript of the event

No he said that future features like 3G would be added.

[nagromme]

No he said that future features like 3G would be added.

Specifically he said they "plan to make 3G phones":

http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=3512713&postcount=153

[Stella]

If all the device offers is the UI, then I'd say no, its not appreciated.

The iPhone is like a pretty book with no substance, and a very high price.

There is the functionality v price, and the iPhone loses this, in my eyes.

Other phones - functionality v price is a good balance.

Can the iPhone do what other phones do? Nope. The iPhone, IMO, is missing critical functionality.


Do people really not appreciate the OS interface at all?

Honestly, it is kind of amazing to me that we are still having this discussion.

People look at the core featureset, and say "Oh, hey, these both do e-mail, web browsing, can play mp3's, etc." and conclude that the iPhone is therefore no different from anything else and not special.

But this really doesn't make sense to me.

My Treo 650 can certain browse the web, play mp3's, etc. but the question is, does it do a good job of these things?

Personally at least, I don't think so - even PocketTunes, which is a decent music playing app, is not really the same as what the iPod offers, or what the music playing capabilities of the iPhone represent. And the Palm OS Blazer browser is a piece of junk and is barely usable for anything.

I think there's a huge difference between whether something can accomplish the same functions, and how usable it is.

This is something I would think especially that Mac and iPod owners would recognize; in terms of basic capabilities, does the iPod do anything that another MP3 player doesn't? No, not really. But in terms of interface, usability, etc. it absolutely does.

Same with a Mac running OS X compared to a PC running Windows.

Now Symbian is a different matter, and I think Symbian is a nice OS too; but even then, there's a pretty big different in UI between a Symbian-based phone and the iPhone, and that is not a trivial difference.

-Zadillo

[nagromme]

Can the iPhone do what other phones do? Nope. The iPhone, IMO, is missing critical functionality.

And vice versa, unless you deliberately ignore the things I listed above (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=3514964&postcount=162).

If you decide the things the iPhone has (usability, big screen, mass storage) simply don't matter, or don't matter enough to get you to pay the price, then you are quite correct :) But of course, you speak only about your OWN needs when you set those priorities. Many will share your needs, and not care much about usability etc.--a perfectly valid personal choice.

And many, many, WILL care about those things--care enough to buy iPhones in large numbers, I predict.

Whatever those "critical" functions are that the iPhone lacks, I hope Apple adds them for you later. I'm sure they will prove valuable to many. (If it's 3G you want, that's already coming. If it's software features you depend on that are missing, there's hope the iPhone will do them from the start, since we've never seen the final version. And if not from the start, Apple has already stated their intent to keep adding software features as updates for existing iPhone users--one more benefit of the multitouch interface.)

[Stella]

Yes, people have different requirements, that why I put 'IMO' - I don't want to seem I'm speaking for the rest, only myself.

I hope Apple improve the software and add more, for example: From what I've seen from the address book - it appears cumbersome - i.e., no search - only tap on the index on the edge of the screen, to name one example.

Oh, plus its a two handed phone - AND NO - putting the phone on the table isn't a solution!! ( I've used the P900 - thats a two handed phone and it gets tiresome ).

I hope Apple add more features, and open the phone up to a third party developers, unrestricted. The iPhone can only get better and become more useful. if you don't want to install 3rd party apps, you don't have to. if an App sucks, uninstall it - just like you would with OSX.

If Apple reduce the price, then it'll sell well, but until that happens, it will be hampered by its high price - SIM locked and exclusivity.

You say in your referenced post
"Some people are trying VERY hard to ignore the iPhone's features so that they can say it's the same as something else. Well they can say those words, but if they're willfiully ignoring such obvious issues, do they think it's a convincing stance? "

But people also do the opposite, people try very hard to forget what the iPhone doesn't do, and ignore the iPhone's shortcomings, and still think its a convincing stance:-)

And vice versa, unless you deliberately ignore the things I listed above (http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=3514964&postcount=162).

If you decide the things the iPhone has (usability, big screen, mass storage) simply don't matter, or don't matter enough to get you to pay the price, then you are quite correct :) But of course, you speak only about your OWN needs when you set those priorities. Many will share your needs, and not care much about usability etc.--a perfectly valid personal choice.

And many, many, WILL care about those things--care enough to buy iPhones in large numbers, I predict.

Whatever those "critical" functions are that the iPhone lacks, I hope Apple adds them for you later. I'm sure they will prove valuable to many. (If it's 3G you want, that's already coming. If it's software features you depend on that are missing, there's hope the iPhone will do them from the start, since we've never seen the final version. And if not from the start, Apple has already stated their intent to keep adding software features as updates for existing iPhone users--one more benefit of the multitouch interface.)

[nagromme]

Yes, people have different requirements, that why I put 'IMO' - I don't want to seem I'm speaking for the rest, only myself.

I hope Apple improve the software and add more, for example: From what I've seen from the address book - it appears cumbersome - i.e., no search - only tap on the index on the edge of the screen, to name one example.

Agreed. And the need for one-touch speed dial is related too. Browsing address lists should not be a primary means of starting a call. It will be interesting to see how the final version works.

You say in your referenced post
"Some people are trying VERY hard to ignore the iPhone's features so that they can say it's the same as something else. Well they can say those words, but if they're willfiully ignoring such obvious issues, do they think it's a convincing stance? "

But people also do the opposite, people try very hard to forget what the iPhone doesn't do, and ignore the iPhone's shortcomings, and still think its a convincing stance:-)

I'd say two wrongs don't make a right, but what stance are you referring to? I've seen two basic stances in this thread:

1. The iPhone is great for me, great for many people, but not for everyone. It does some things no other product does.

2. The iPhone is NOT great for many people at all, and doesn't have any advantages over other products.

Artie McStrawman might pop in and say the iPhone is for everyone and does everything under the sun--but I haven't seen him here :) As I've said already above, if you prefer another device, there's no shame in that. The logical flaw comes when you state that the iPhone has nothing other devices lack. (Other phones do "everything the iPhone can AND MORE!!" etc.) It DOES do things every other device lacks--and vice versa. Some have 3G already for instance. Some phones have no Internet at all but are super-slim. Many good options. Pick what's best for you :)

(PS, along with screen size, multitouch, mass storage space, and the streamlined user interface design, I'll add WiFi as something many "competitors" lack.)

[Stella]

Option 2 is just too extreme!

I'd go somewhere in between. Trouble is, people don't think broad enough, thinking that because its no good for them, its no good for everyone, or, because its great for them, its good for all.

WIFI is very useful and something I would find difficult to live without on a cell phone.

"It DOES do things every other device lacks--and vice versa"
Definitely - i.e., the UI.

We'll see how well the multi touch screen actually fares during real usage. So far people have only used it for a short time and thats vastly different from having to use it during daily life.

Re: mass storage. For me, 2gigs is currently enough, but at least I can use more memory if I wanted to... buy a higher capacity memory card or, having to swap out the memory card ( which is , yes, awkward )- i.e., one for music one for applications. You can't swap the existing memory for a larger capacity card in the iPhone - perhaps someone can correct me.



I'd say two wrongs don't make a right, but what stance are you referring to? I've seen two basic stances in this thread:

1. The iPhone is great for me, great for many people, but not for everyone. It does some things no other product does.

2. The iPhone is NOT great for many people at all, and doesn't have any advantages over other products.

Artie McStrawman might pop in and say the iPhone is for everyone and does everything under the sun--but I haven't seen him here :) As I've said already above, if you prefer another device, there's no shame in that. The logical flaw comes when you state that the iPhone has nothing other devices lack. (Other phones do "everything the iPhone can AND MORE!!" etc.) It DOES do things every other device lacks--and vice versa. Some have 3G already for instance. Some phones have no Internet at all but are super-slim. Many good options. Pick what's best for you :)

(PS, along with screen size, multitouch, mass storage space, and the streamlined user interface design, I'll add WiFi as something many "competitors" lack.)

[nagromme]

Trouble is, people don't think broad enough, thinking that because its no good for them, its no good for everyone, or, because its great for them, its good for all.

Agreed--I haven't seen the latter in this thread, but those two extremes are almost never useful in ANY situation.

I also agree that we will know more about the iPhone's strengths and weaknesses once it is out there.

I'd bet a lot, though, that replacing the flash storage will be a warranty-voiding hack at best. In which case the 4Gb minimum is a good thing.

[bretm]

Well said, I think people are just seeing the specs: email, web browsing, plays music. What people aren't remembering is that the iPhone is an iPod (with cover flow), browses the web (with safari, and shows the page as the designer intended a user to see it) and connects to POP and IMAP servers for email (using an email app which is way easier to use than the one on my Treo 650).

People are also forgetting about the new visual voice mail feature, how cool is it going to be to pick and choose which voice mail you want to listen to first.

Oh and I forgot it also plays movies on a large screen. Show me a phone that can do all of this intuitively.

Yep. If people make crazy comparisons just because their phone's do the same functions, they might as well point out that Windows 3.1 did word processing, and so does OSX. It's bizarre. And to top it all off, go to cingular and look at the prices of the smart phones. $400, $500, $600. And you just get junk imho. I've tried to look at a website or my email on just about any smartphone I could get my hands on. After about 30 seconds I had no desire to have one anymore. They just feel like a walkman compared to an ipod. Hey, they both play music.

(Some people may not remember the actual first walkman. It played cassette tapes)

[bretm]

Option 2 is just too extreme!


Re: mass storage. For me, 2gigs is currently enough, but at least I can use more memory if I wanted to... buy a higher capacity memory card or, having to swap out the memory card ( which is , yes, awkward )- i.e., one for music one for applications. You can't swap the existing memory for a larger capacity card in the iPhone - perhaps someone can correct me.

I just don't see how 2 gigs can be enough for anyone that uses the ipod for it's strengths. Music and photos. Both will eat that memory for lunch.
Plus, the memory included in the iPod is the TOTAL memory. It holds the OS, the applications, and then the storage. If it's truly running a small version of OSX (might just be a full version like the :apple:tv) then the 4 gig may only hold 2 gigs. I think the 8 gig is a minimum. But my 3G ipod is 15gigs and it's full.

[jesteraver]

nvm was confused for a minute

[Stella]

I just don't see how 2 gigs can be enough for anyone that uses the ipod for it's strengths. Music and photos. Both will eat that memory for lunch.
Plus, the memory included in the iPod is the TOTAL memory. It holds the OS, the applications, and then the storage. If it's truly running a small version of OSX (might just be a full version like the :apple:tv) then the 4 gig may only hold 2 gigs. I think the 8 gig is a minimum. But my 3G ipod is 15gigs and it's full.

You misunderstand my post :-) :
2Gigs is *enough for me* - which I do point out. I'm not talking about having 2gigs in a iPhone, I'm talking about 2Gigs in my existing phone - which is less than 50% full, includes a load of third party applications, main memory backup, some music etc.

[psychofreak]

If it's truly running a small version of OSX (might just be a full version like the :apple:tv)The appleTVs that you saw running full OSX had OSX put onto them, and did not come with the full 10.4

[nagromme]

The iPhone's OS X is stripped down to what it needs. But my question is... what architecture does it run on? If it's ARM/Xscale, as rumored, then it's not x86, right? And that means OS X has been ported to a whole third chip family? (In which case, hacking it to add other OS X apps won't work.)

Or could it be running some kind of G3 variant? That would make the most sense to me, since G3s (not by that name) come in mobile flavors, and OS X already runs on PPC.

[CoreWeb]

As does Symbian.

The majority of Symbian phones does everything the iPhone can AND MORE!! Plus my E70 very very rarely crashes.

The iPhone is nothing special, apart from the multi-touch touch screen UI.
First, I acknowledge being wrong about the multitasking on other phones. Out of curiosity, how easy and non-cumbersome is it?

But what of the other features I listed: iPod, web browser, ease of use? Other phones may have an iPod and a web browser, but nowhere near as well implemented.

As for your (and everyone else's) comparisons with features in existing phones:
I have an old 233MHz computer that can do most of what my MacBook Pro can do:

I can write programs on it
I can write websites on it
I can check e-mail with it
I can browse websites with it

It is worth probably around $100, being very generous. My MBP was >$2000. Well, I guess I just wasted my money on a MBP, didn't I?

[skinnylegs]

I see where you're going, CoreWeb, and I both get it and agree with you. I am surprised at how many Mac owners are compaing the iPhone to other smartphones. I wouldn't say that I am a smartphone "power user" but I have used a Blackberry and while they 'kinda/'sorta get the job done, they are hardly intuitive and not much to look at.

[MacbookSwitcher]

First, I acknowledge being wrong about the multitasking on other phones. Out of curiosity, how easy and non-cumbersome is it?

But what of the other features I listed: iPod, web browser, ease of use? Other phones may have an iPod and a web browser, but nowhere near as well implemented.

As for your (and everyone else's) comparisons with features in existing phones:
I have an old 233MHz computer that can do most of what my MacBook Pro can do:

I can write programs on it
I can write websites on it
I can check e-mail with it
I can browse websites with it

It is worth probably around $100, being very generous. My MBP was >$2000. Well, I guess I just wasted my money on a MBP, didn't I?

Have you ever even used a Windows Mobile device? How about the Windows Mobile Treo? I would guess you haven't, because if you had, you'd realize it does pretty much everything the iPhone does feature-wise, at least according to the features that have been disclosed until this point, and more in some cases. And the usability is good (At least Palm's heavily customized version, default WinMo a little less so)

Most importantly, the iPhone isn't even out yet, so how can you say it's easier to use than anything? No one has really used it yet, except for Mossberg and Pogue playing around with it in a supervised environment for a couple minutes. I'll reserve judgement until I use one for myself, and read in-depth usage reviews.

[Stella]

Switching between running apps on my nokia is easy - press a button, list of running applications appear, select. Easy.

Your comparison of MacBook Pro v 233Mhz Mac. Thats a personal thing for you - did you get value for money? No one can argue this point. Another person in your situation may not think that the money spent on the macBook Pro would be good value for money over the 233Mhz Mac for a variety of reasons. Its personal for each individual.

The iPhone hasn't yet been released. People have only used it for a short space of time. It may turn out the GUI and multi touch screen is the best thing since sliced bread in day to day use... or could be overly cumbersome. You can rarely use something for half an hour or less ( which most previewers have ) and base that experience in the real world. You have to use it for a good period of time.


First, I acknowledge being wrong about the multitasking on other phones. Out of curiosity, how easy and non-cumbersome is it?

But what of the other features I listed: iPod, web browser, ease of use? Other phones may have an iPod and a web browser, but nowhere near as well implemented.

As for your (and everyone else's) comparisons with features in existing phones:
I have an old 233MHz computer that can do most of what my MacBook Pro can do:

I can write programs on it
I can write websites on it
I can check e-mail with it
I can browse websites with it

It is worth probably around $100, being very generous. My MBP was >$2000. Well, I guess I just wasted my money on a MBP, didn't I?

[CoreWeb]

Your comparison of MacBook Pro v 233Mhz Mac. Thats a personal thing for you - did you get value for money? No one can argue this point. Another person in your situation may not think that the money spent on the macBook Pro would be good value for money over the 233Mhz Mac for a variety of reasons. Its personal for each individual.

Agreed, here. But I'm on the side who wants the MacBook Pro. The other one would technically work, but it would work nowhere near as well for me.

I'm hoping the iPhone will be much better, not necessarily in feature set than the other phones, but in how well the features are implemented. This is more important to me than 3g, which is to me the only significant feature it lacks (though removable battery could be nice). 3g is spotty where I live - it is reliable in my house, but I would use WIFI there anyway, so 3g isn't that important. That being said, if I feel that 3g will come relatively quickly, I might wait before buying the phone (assuming, of course, the phone seems acceptable to me after trying it out).

Have you ever even used a Windows Mobile device? How about the Windows Mobile Treo? I would guess you haven't, because if you had, you'd realize it does pretty much everything the iPhone does feature-wise, at least according to the features that have been disclosed until this point, and more in some cases. And the usability is good (At least Palm's heavily customized version, default WinMo a little less so)

Most importantly, the iPhone isn't even out yet, so how can you say it's easier to use than anything? No one has really used it yet, except for Mossberg and Pogue playing around with it in a supervised environment for a couple minutes. I'll reserve judgement until I use one for myself, and read in-depth usage reviews.

I have used a Windows Mobile device a couple of times, but I've used a Blackberry more. I'm going off of what I have seen in the Apple demos. You are perfectly right that the iPhone may not be easy to use. It looks easy and well designed.

Most importantly, in a phone I want something that works seamlessly, and that is something Apple is good at.

Now, this wanting of things to work seamlessly over what possible feature set it has does not apply to everything for me: for example, I would prefer a Mac Mini to an AppleTV, even though I think the AppleTV is very nice, and would work much more smoothly.

[AidenShaw]

http://theappleblog.com/2007/04/04/dvorak-iphone-battery-dead-after-40-minutes/

Dvorak: iPhone battery dead after 40 minutes

Although John C. Dvorak cited thin margins and Apple’s inability to play the fashion game fast enough in a recent MarketWatch column urging the company to pull the plug on the iPhone, he revealed far different reasons on the latest episode of This Week in Tech (TWiT).

During Episode 93 of the top-ranked podcast, Dvorak said he received information from “a guy at Cingular who’s testing the product.” The unnamed, male Cingular employee told Dvorak “there’s lots of issues.”

“He says the amateur mistake that they made is not having a removable battery,” Dvorak said. “You run 20 minutes and you’re using up half the battery power. You get 40 minutes total talk time. And the interface fouls up constantly.”


Consider the source, of course...

[nagromme]

I see the iPhone detractors are shifting magically from "the iPhone does nothing other phones don't" (obviously false) to... "the iPhone isn't out yet! ANYTHING could go wrong!! It might NOT work as well as the demo seemed to show!"

Ok, yes :) Anything's possible. The future is a scary unknown. Meanwhile, we'll just have to discuss what we've seen so far I guess. What we've seen so far is light years beyond how other phones work. With scrolling and Web zooming being just two ways that this is more than fun eye candy.

So the new argument, "wait and see before buying" is 100% good advice. (Of course, there's no choice in that.)

The old argument that YOU "know" before the iPhone is out that other phones "do EVERYTHING iPhone does" is best set aside... when even the unfinished phone we've seen has screen size, storage capacity, and very unique usability features lacking in the old-style units people have been touting as better. (And in many cases they lack WiFi and the iPhone's thin form factor too.)


http://theappleblog.com/2007/04/04/dvorak-iphone-battery-dead-after-40-minutes/

Dvorak: iPhone battery dead after 40 minutes

Although John C. Dvorak cited thin margins and Apple’s inability to play the fashion game fast enough in a recent MarketWatch column urging the company to pull the plug on the iPhone, he revealed far different reasons on the latest episode of This Week in Tech (TWiT).

During Episode 93 of the top-ranked podcast, Dvorak said he received information from “a guy at Cingular who’s testing the product.” The unnamed, male Cingular employee told Dvorak “there’s lots of issues.”

“He says the amateur mistake that they made is not having a removable battery,” Dvorak said. “You run 20 minutes and you’re using up half the battery power. You get 40 minutes total talk time. And the interface fouls up constantly.”


Consider the source, of course...

Thanks :) But you already know to disregard the source--aside from Dvorak making up really out-there anti-Apple stuff all the time, consider HIS source. Nobody high up enough to get an iPhone to test is going to badmouth their own coming product when he knows very well that any problems he sees are likely to be fixed. Thus, the source is likely anonymous fiction with no proof of identity--which Dvorak knows but chooses to pretend to believe. (And no matter WHO the source is, a beta test unit is not evidence that Apple is actually going to reduce the stated talk time from 5 hours to under 1 :rolleyes: Even YOU don't think that's a possibility--much as you, like Dvorak, love to spread anti-Apple FUD. He loves the idea of people repeating, "I heard that the iPhone gets barely over half an hour talk time!" All anyone can say about the iPhone now is, something might delay it. True of any complex product. They won't ship it bug-free because no company ever does, but they won't ship it with a battery than can't make one long call.)

[MacbookSwitcher]

http://theappleblog.com/2007/04/04/dvorak-iphone-battery-dead-after-40-minutes/

Dvorak: iPhone battery dead after 40 minutes

Although John C. Dvorak cited thin margins and Apple’s inability to play the fashion game fast enough in a recent MarketWatch column urging the company to pull the plug on the iPhone, he revealed far different reasons on the latest episode of This Week in Tech (TWiT).

During Episode 93 of the top-ranked podcast, Dvorak said he received information from “a guy at Cingular who’s testing the product.” The unnamed, male Cingular employee told Dvorak “there’s lots of issues.”

“He says the amateur mistake that they made is not having a removable battery,” Dvorak said. “You run 20 minutes and you’re using up half the battery power. You get 40 minutes total talk time. And the interface fouls up constantly.”


Consider the source, of course...

That sounds pretty reasonable. Cingular most certainly has people testing the device, as it will be out soon. And the iPhone is not a finished product, so it's conceivable that there are issues at this point. Of course, these issues will most certainly be fixed by ship time: Steve Jobs would never allow a device to ship with only 40 minutes of battery life.

People need to remember that making a smartphone is much harder than making a portable music player. Palm and Blackberry and Nokia and HTC have been doing it for years, and all have bugs in their products, so don't expect Apple's first venture to be bug-free.

[kcroy]

The iPhone isn't out yet, and you can't preorder it, however, you can preorder the book on how to use it from Amazon. Believe it or not, iPhone for Dummies is available for preorder. There's even a picture of the book. Says available in September. Already discounted to $14.95.

Here's the info from Amazon:

iPhone For Dummies (Paperback)
by Edward C. Baig (Author), Bob LeVitus (Author)
List Price: $21.99
Price: $14.95 & eligible for FREE Super Saver Shipping on orders over $25. Details
You Save: $7.04 (32%)

Pre-Order Price Guarantee! Order now and if the Amazon.com price decreases between your order time and release date, you'll receive the lowest price. See Details
Availability: This title has not yet been released. You may order it now and we will ship it to you when it arrives. Ships from and sold by Amazon.com. Gift-wrap available.

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[Dagless]

A tad bit random, but I had a dream the other night. I went into my pocket to find a phone and pulled out an iPhone! It's actually got me just a little bit more interested in this now.

That said I just got a RAZR. Old phone I know and it does replace a newer one, but just as the 2G Shuffle has replaced my iPod mini I'm finding smaller tech that little bit better.

[TheSlush]

As we've seen, the first iPhone images showed the name "Cingular" up in the corner. Then the iPhone television commercial during Super Bowl XLI showed "AT&T" in the corner, presumably corresponding to AT&T's announced intention to phase out the Cingular brand after their merger.

So surely the switch back to "Cingular" in this photo can't just be an oversight, right? I would presume that AT&T is dictating which name Apple displays in these promos, since that is the one tiny piece of pixel real estate that is essential to AT&T's branding on the iPhone.

Perhaps AT&T felt the iPhone commercial jumped the gun too quickly in replacing Cingular's name? Perhaps the Cingular management made a stink? Or does this back-and-forth simply mean that the brands are in flux and nothing's yet decided?

It's also worth noting that Cingular/AT&T's site shows "AT&T" in the corner, while Apple's site still shows "Cingular" in the corner:

http://www.cingular.com/cell-phone-service/specials/iPhone.jsp
http://www.apple.com/iphone