Police Log Confirms FBI Role In Arrests

[zimv20]

wash post (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2007/04/02/AR2007040201568.html)


Group Detained, Questioned During D.C. War Protest

A secret FBI intelligence unit helped detain a group of war protesters in a downtown Washington parking garage in April 2002 and interrogated some of them on videotape about their political and religious beliefs, newly uncovered documents and interviews show.

For years, law enforcement authorities suggested it never happened. The FBI and D.C. police said they had no records of such an incident. And police told a federal court that no FBI agents were present when officers arrested more than 20 protesters that afternoon for trespassing; police viewed them as suspicious for milling around the parking garage entrance.

But a civil lawsuit, filed by the protesters, recently unearthed D.C. police logs that confirm the FBI's role in the incident. Lawyers for the demonstrators said the logs, which police say they just found, bolster their allegations of civil rights violations.

The probable cause to arrest the protesters as they retrieved food from their parked van? They were wearing black -- a color choice the FBI and police associated with anarchists, according to the police records.

FBI agents dressed in street clothes separated members to question them one by one about protests they attended, whom they had spent time with recently, what political views they espoused and the significance of their tattoos and slogans, according to interviews and court records.

The revelations, combined with protester accounts, provide the first public evidence that Washington-based FBI personnel used their intelligence-gathering powers in the District to collect purely political intelligence. Ultimately, the protesters were not prosecuted because there wasn't sufficient evidence of trespassing, and their arrest records were expunged.

Similar intelligence-gathering operations have been reported in New York, where a local police intelligence unit tried to infiltrate groups planning to protest at the Republican National Convention in 2004, and in Colorado, where records surfaced showing that the FBI collected names and license plates of people protesting timber industry practices at a 2002 industry convention.

Several federal courts have ruled that intelligence agencies can monitor domestic groups only when there is reason to believe the group is engaged in criminal activity. Experts in police conduct say it is hard to imagine how asking questions about a person's political views would be appropriate in a trespassing case.

(more)

a secret FBI intelligence arresting suspected-lefties on trumped up charges because they're wearing black and "hanging around"?

no, that's disturbing at all.

[solvs]

I don't know what to say.

Sadly, I'm not at all surprised.

[Swarmlord]

They don't call them Bureau of Investigation for nothing.

Civil rights violations my eye. Anyone milling around looking suspicious is fair game for a little questioning especially leading up to a large public event.

[Queso]

The only thing that concerns me about this is that the Police and FBI lied about it afterwards. It confirms even they thought their reasons were suspect.

[it5five]

They don't call them Bureau of Investigation for nothing.

Civil rights violations my eye. Anyone milling around looking suspicious is fair game for a little questioning especially leading up to a large public event.

So you'd be okay being picked up off of the street for the color you're wearing, being taken in and being questioned about your religious and political beliefs, about any tatoos you have, and whom you spend your time with?

What happened to libertarians being against big brother government? :rolleyes:

I guess it's cool with you so long as it's your side comitting all of the civil rights violations.

[leekohler]

So you'd be okay being picked up off of the street for the color you're wearing, being taken in and being questioned about your religious and political beliefs, about any tatoos you have, and whom you spend your time with?

What happened to libertarians being against big brother government? :rolleyes:

I guess it's cool with you so long as it's your side comitting all of the civil rights violations.

Of course it is- you haven't seen that pattern with him yet?

[Swarmlord]

So you'd be okay being picked up off of the street for the color you're wearing, being taken in and being questioned about your religious and political beliefs, about any tatoos you have, and whom you spend your time with?

What happened to libertarians being against big brother government? :rolleyes:

I guess it's cool with you so long as it's your side comitting all of the civil rights violations.

The law states reasonable suspicion. It applies to all law enforcement. If you get picked up and you think that a judge or jury would agree with you that there's no reasonable suspicion, then you win. You know the religious and political beliefs bit is just silly. If you decide to make yourself look like Charles Manson though, don't be shocked if someone checks you out now and then.

[leekohler]

The law states reasonable suspicion. It applies to all law enforcement. If you get picked up and you think that a judge or jury would agree with you that there's no reasonable suspicion, then you win. You know the religious and political beliefs bit is just silly. If you decide to make yourself look like Charles Manson though, don't be shocked if someone checks you out now and then.

Of course, because anyone who looks different must be a criminal and deserves to be harassed for no good reason. :rolleyes:

[zimv20]

of course, the point here isn't that police can question those who are suspicious looking, that happens all the time. a few years ago in chicago, there was an ordinance against public gatherings, which police used to harass groups of black teenagers hanging out on a corner. there was an outcry and that stopped, but that misguided attempt was about stopping criminal behavior.

the interesting aspect of this, especially when combined with the recent revelations that new york city cops were going out undercover all across to US to spy on suspected-anarchists, is:
the first public evidence that Washington-based FBI personnel used their intelligence-gathering powers in the District to collect purely political intelligence.

if that doesn't give us the creeps, then i don't know what would.

[Swarmlord]

of course, the point here isn't that police can question those who are suspicious looking, that happens all the time. a few years ago in chicago, there was an ordinance against public gatherings, which police used to harass groups of black teenagers hanging out on a corner. there was an outcry and that stopped, but that misguided attempt was about stopping criminal behavior.

the interesting aspect of this, especially when combined with the recent revelations that new york city cops were going out undercover all across to US to spy on suspected-anarchists, is:


if that doesn't give us the creeps, then i don't know what would.

They infiltrated groups they suspected were going to pull a stunt purely for political purposes during a convention. This is opposed to groups planning to commit a burglery or a murder.

If it makes you feel any better, phone calls and emails are all scoured for similar criminal plotting to some degree also. Forums like this too.

[adroit]

If it makes you feel any better, phone calls and emails are all scoured for similar criminal plotting to some degree also. Forums like this too.

Proof that your nation is fundamentaly broken.

[Swarmlord]

Proof that your nation is fundamentaly broken.

You really don't have a very high threshold for proof then, do you?

Better to prove that your country doesn't.

[Desertrat]

Hey, adroit, pick me a nation that's not fundamentally broken, insofar as spying on the citizenry. The "I luv cameras" crowd is hard at work, both in England and here. Tomorrow? Maple Leaf country, I imagine, if it's not already going on...

Do a search here for "Echelon". I think the name has been changed, to protect the guilty, but rest assured your keystrokes are being counted. If not here, in England or New Zealand.

Probably, but not necessarily, apochryphal: More members of the KKK and the Aryan Nation are FBI or BATFE than from the "just folks" citizenry. :D

'Rat

[pseudobrit]

They infiltrated groups they suspected were going to pull a stunt purely for political purposes during a convention. This is opposed to groups planning to commit a burglery or a murder.

No, they interrogated innocent Americans to gather political intelligence using an instrument that's supposed to be apolitical.

That's a huge conflict of interest.

[Swarmlord]

No, they interrogated innocent Americans to gather political intelligence using an instrument that's supposed to be apolitical.

That's a huge conflict of interest.

They didn't find out that they were innocent until they interrogated them, eh?

I hope you use that argument the next time you're stopped by the highway patrol. If you throw enough righteous indignation and expletives at them they might even use an apolitical instrument on you too. They love that stuff. :eek:

[solvs]

Um, investigation is fine. It's their job. Abusing their power is not. This is why oversight is so important. If they were doing their jobs according to Constitutional law, this wouldn't be an issue.

[pseudobrit]

They didn't find out that they were innocent until they interrogated them, eh?

I hope you use that argument the next time you're stopped by the highway patrol. If you throw enough righteous indignation and expletives at them they might even use an apolitical instrument on you too. They love that stuff. :eek:

If you're stopped by a trooper not for violating any law but because he's upset about your anti-war bumper stickers, he's violating his duty just the same as these cops.

What part of this do you not understand? Police are not allowed to break the law.

[solvs]

What part of this do you not understand?

That it isn't happening to him.

[it5five]

That it isn't happening to him.

You can bet he'd be outraged it if were the Dems were doing this too.

[solvs]

You can bet he'd be outraged it if were the Dems were doing this too.

Wouldn't you be? I know I would. Thinking back to Elian or Waco. What's good for the goose...

[it5five]

Wouldn't you be? I know I would. Thinking back to Elian or Waco. What's good for the goose...

I'd be outraged no matter who was doing this. I was just saying all of the righties that are saying this is no big deal would be outraged if it weren't their side doing it.

[pseudobrit]

You can bet he'd be outraged it if were the Dems were doing this too.

Or if cops were shaking down folks outside an NRA convention.

[solvs]

I'd be outraged no matter who was doing this. I was just saying all of the righties that are saying this is no big deal would be outraged if it weren't their side doing it.
I know. Sorry, I was reiterating your point. Agreeing, not arguing. ;)

Or if cops were shaking down folks outside an NRA convention.
You can pry my peace sign from my cold dead hands. :p