Apple Discounts Cinema Displays

[menziep]

Apple today droped the prices on all of its Cinema Displays in the US and Canada!

Have fun and please comment!

[kwood]

If they drop another $300 I'll consider buying one.

[shecky]

can someone remind me what the old prices vs. the new prices are?

[kwood]

can someone remind me what the old prices vs. the new prices are?

In Canada I know the 20" was $799 dropped to $699.

[NewbieNerd]

In US, 23" was 1K and 30" was 2K.

[mrgreen4242]

If they drop another $300 I'll consider buying one.

Yup, considering the Dell displays are of similar quality (in the important respects), and have more features (multiple inputs is the #1). The casing is quite as nice, but by no means ugly... hard worth several hundred dollars, though.

[lopresmb]

20" - $699 (now $599)
23" - $999 (now $899)
30" - $1999 (now $1799)

[JFreak]

No price change in Finland store; however, no 8-cores either.

EDIT:

Makes me really sad if they don't drop euro prices as well. Take 20" Cinema Display for example; currently 599USD equals 450 euros, and +22% tax makes it 550 euros. But the Apple store sells it for 799 euros, which makes it 250 euros (or 45%) too expensive.

:(

[Ibjr]

That insane. Even with price drops the Dell widescreen 20 inch is over 300 dollars cheaper.

[Diatribe]

No price drops in the German store either, but then again the 8-core MPs aren't there either, so maybe it'll still come.

[Squonk]

Yup, considering the Dell displays are of similar quality (in the important respects), and have more features (multiple inputs is the #1). The casing is quite as nice, but by no means ugly... hard worth several hundred dollars, though.

Agreed - the single input on the Apple monitors is the #1 reason why I won't consider one. #2 is price. C'mon :apple:

[Evangelion]

Why is Europe getting short-changed here? No Octo-Macs, no reduced prices on the screens... What gives?

[atari1356]

Prices for those who qualify for the education discount in the US:

20" - $549
23" - $799
30" - $1,599

At that price, the 23" one is actually pretty reasonable now since it uses an S-IPS panel. Most of the 24" competition uses PVA... or worse, TN panels.

The new NEC 2490 is S-IPS and supposedly has very good color reproduction, but costs around $1500

[Wild-Bill]

$900.00 for a 23 inch monitor is not cheap.

[dante@sisna.com]

Yup, considering the Dell displays are of similar quality (in the important respects), and have more features (multiple inputs is the #1). The casing is quite as nice, but by no means ugly... hard worth several hundred dollars, though.

The colorsync profiles, the lack of display controls (acutally a POSITIVE for Color Management) and the more finely tuned LUT's make the ACD a BETTER buy than the dells for Print Production Graphics work -- FOR SURE.

I have both here in our studio.

$900.00 for a 23 inch monitor is not cheap.

It is reasonable given the specs: IPS Panel, Colorsync SWOP Certification, Better LUT's than a Dell, and LACK of DISPLAY CONTROLS, which is actually a positive for color management.

Agreed - the single input on the Apple monitors is the #1 reason why I won't consider one. #2 is price. C'mon :apple:

For the high end Print Production Work I do, I would NEVER consider the Dell.

Ever.

That insane. Even with price drops the Dell widescreen 20 inch is over 300 dollars cheaper.

It is not nearly as good of a monitor for Graphics and Print Production where SWOP color match is important. I would be in court with that Dell -- that's insane!

Gladly pay the extra $300 bucks.

[Mgkwho]

What's weird on the store site is their links to the gallery and tech specs. They just link to their respective pages outside of the store.

All other products have new pages in the store or whatever that are self-contained. None of this clicking for a pop-up window business. The window size isn't even good.

I think Apple is going to release some sort of new displays soon. Maybe not NAB, but soon. WWDC?

The way their store site is oriented is totally opposite the rest of their hardware products. There will be new displays soon.

-=|Mgkwho

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Alongside the released of the 8-core Mac Pro (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/04/apple-releases-8-core-mac-pro/) today, Apple quietly discounted their Apple Cinema Displays. The new prices are as follows:

$599 - 20" Cinema Display
$899 - 23" Cinema Display
$1799 - 30" Cinema Display

The new prices represent $100 discounts for the 20" and 23" and $200 discounts on the 30" Display. Apple last updated the Cinema Displays in August (http://www.macrumors.com/2006/08/07/cinema-display-price-drops/) with price drops and improved specifications.

The new prices are reflected at the Apple Store (http://www.dailytunes.com/applestore.php) (UK Store (http://r.macrumorslive.com/ukstore)).

[Captain Planet]

Wow...could we see some price drops on the computers? :p

[atari1356]

I think Apple is going to release some sort of new displays soon. Maybe not NAB, but soon. WWDC?

I think Apple is the only one selling 23" monitors at the moment - and someone that works for NEC posted on another forum that all of the 23" S-IPS panels were EOL (end of life). It wouldn't surprise me if Apple switched out the 23" for a 24" model soon... the big question is, will they use they use the same S-IPS panel that's in the NEC 2490, or are they holding out for one with LED technology.

I also wonder how the 30" Apple display compares to what Dell is offering... considering Dell recently upgraded their 30" model to an improved "high color" version. It may be time for Apple to upgrade that model as well.

[wankey]

The colorsync profiles, the lack of display controls (acutally a POSITIVE for Color Management) and the more finely tuned LUT's make the ACD a BETTER buy than the dells for Print Production Graphics work -- FOR SURE.

I have both here in our studio.

Lol, gimme a break. I can buy 2 Dell Ultrasharps for 1 Cinema Display. That's double the pixel count. And seriously, all those certifications and what not is definitely not worth double the price. Maybe +100 dollars, but not double.

Lack on controls is a good thing? I see the RDF is affecting you.

[Sutekidane]

...And yet, they're still more expensive than the competition.

[twoodcc]

wow, this is great news....at least a step in the right direction. the only thing i don't like is the number of inputs.....but i still might consider getting one of these things this summer......

[shecky]

Lol, gimme a break. I can buy 2 Dell Ultrasharps for 1 Cinema Display. That's double the pixel count.

maybe you should pay attention to what dante is saying before you come up with some tangential counter-argument that bears no relevance to his points nor disputes them.

[Mgkwho]

At this rate, the 20" will be $149 by WWDC 2010!!!!!!!!!!!

I can't wait.

-=|Mgkwho

[syklee26]

Prices for those who qualify for the education discount in the US:

20" - $549
23" - $799
30" - $1,599

At that price, the 23" one is actually pretty reasonable now since it uses an S-IPS panel. Most of the 24" competition uses PVA... or worse, TN panels.

The new NEC 2490 is S-IPS and supposedly has very good color reproduction, but costs around $1500



can you explain the difference?

[TheSlush]

Could there be any reason to think that this price drop means new displays are coming any second now? There's been some buzz here and there about new displays on the horizon, possibly with built-in iSight cameras....

[Eidorian]

can you explain the difference?$50 on the low end, $100 in the middle, and $200 on the high.

[syklee26]

$50 on the low end, $100 in the middle, and $200 on the high.

....i meant the difference between s-ips and the other technology....

[gugy]

price drops are always apreciate.
I have the feeling that they will introduce at NAB the larger display. 40" +.
alongside FCP extreme.

[dante@sisna.com]

Lol, gimme a break. I can buy 2 Dell Ultrasharps for 1 Cinema Display. That's double the pixel count.

You can laugh out loud all you like, but obviously you miss my point: I am speaking to the High End Graphics Arts Print Production market. Last I checked, some Apple users still worked in this market.

Folks in this industry understand the science behind why an ACD is a better choice over a Dell Ultrasharp, even with calibration on the Dell. I would never put one of my artists in front of a Dell -- even a calibrated one -- Why? Because the Dell has too many monitor adjustments to color, brightness, etc. Laugh at this all you want and call me fool, BUT educate yourself before you do -- if one touches ANY of the Dell's monitor controls after a monitor calibration/colorsync profile, then the Calibrated monitor is basically useless. And this is just the first reason. The more finely tuned LUT's and SWOP certification are numbers two and three. All calibration not-withstanding.

The key in color matching, which is a science, is to let the COLORSYNC ICC PROFILE interact with the Video Card, the Operating System, the Software, and Proof and Offset/Digital Printers (and on initial input a scanner, digital camera, etc).

Again, this is just speaking to the print production market.

For Video the Dell is a better choice.

Want to learn more? Below are a few excerpts from Dr. Karl Lang -- the architect of the Sony Artisan, the Radius PressView, ColorMatch, ProSense and many other products. He worked with display technology both CRT and LCD for the last 15 years.

". . .As an example the fact that Apple's display has no controls other than
backlight is actually a very good thing for an 8-8-8 LCD if your going
to use calibration. Apple optimizes the factory LUTs so as to provide
the most individual colors. smooth greyscale and the least loss. Then
the calibration is done in the graphic card LUT. As these are all 8 bit
it's best if the user does not mess with the display LUTs at all.
Overall Lab to Lab Delta E of 23 patches is a very poor metric to
evaluate a display. It completely leaves out many areas of color space
(the tool they used is designed to make the colorimeter look good so
tuff patches are not included) contrast ratio, stability, aging,
greyscale performance and other important considerations."

Basically, if you understand the science of color management, you would never want 2 Dell Ultrasharps over 1 ACD 30".

And this is just the beginning of the color science tutorial: I have not even begun to really get into it.

Sorry, but in the area of print production, where color match is important, your statement is foolish. In this case you live up to your MacRumors "Newbie" title.

[~Shard~]

Excellent news! The updates are slowly starting to take place - it should be a fun next couple of months, culminating with WWDC... :cool:

[atari1356]

can you explain the difference?

The short answer is, S-IPS generally has the best color reproduction and the picture doesn't degrade much when viewing the monitor from an angle. So, it's better for graphic design work or anything where color accuracy is important.


The long answer is:

TN Gamers
Considered a "gamers" panel due to it's fast pixel response times which reduces trailing images know as "ghosting". However, this advantage has been reduced by new technologies to accelerate pixel response times in other panel types. Colors and contrast tend to be weak and blacks are not truly dark. Viewing angles are significantly limited. However, monitors based on this technology tend to be inexpensive.

IPS / S-IPS Graphics Work or Web Browsing
Considered to have the best color reproduction of all panel types, these panels are well suited for graphics work or web browsing. Pixel response time is also good but slower than the TN "gamers" panel. Contast and blacks are also less dark than VA panels but viewing angles are excellent.

MVA / P-MVA / PVA / S-PVA Compromise for All-Around Use
These panels are a compromise between the fast pixel response times of the TN panel and the excellent color reproduction of the IPS panels. Contrast and blacks are best of all the panel types. Viewing angles are similar but slightly inferior to IPS.

That's taken from this site, where you can read more:
http://www.hardforum.com/showthread.php?t=1039222

[roland.g]

What's the difference between this 22" Dell for $276 (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-5205) and this 24" Dell for $629 (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-4335)?

Other than the 1680x1050 vs 1920x1200, the 2", and the contrast ratio 800 vs 1000. Seems like a big jump ($353) for those specs.

[millypede]

The UK price has not dropped even though the site suggests it has.

[HiRez]

I sure would like a 24" ACD with LED backlighting for home. But if they update the 30" and keep the prices at $1800 I'll be tempted. I use 30" ACDs at work and they are absolutely gorgeous displays. They may not be the brightest or have the highest pixel count or be the most adjustable or the cheapest, but imagery is so smooth and colors so accurate the price is easy to justify IMO. After using these monitors for a while, it's hard to go back to others (I have an LG flat panel at home that I used to think looked pretty decent). And World of Warcraft looks amazing on a 30" ACD too :D

[aleck]

UK prices are identical to what they were. No changes there.

[bilbo--baggins]

UK prices are identical to what they were. No changes there.

Yes, I know for a fact the 20" display was £529 a week or 2 ago, and exactly the same now.:(

If you remove the VAT from the UK price it's £450. In todays exchange rate that's $889. Compare that to the $599 now being charged on the US AppleStore. In fact, if the price has come down by $100, it sounds as though it was cheaper in the US even before the price reduction - by a significant amount.

[itsme92]

Agreed - the single input on the Apple monitors is the #1 reason why I won't consider one. #2 is price. C'mon :apple:

C'mon Apple, add component and composite video inputs and I'll buy an ACD. But if you don't then I'm just going to buy a Gateway or Dell.

I am willing to pay extra for the shiny Apple logo, but not unless they add video inputs.

[ITR 81]

price drops are always apreciate.
I have the feeling that they will introduce at NAB the larger display. 40" +.
alongside FCP extreme.

Your probably right.

I wouldn't go as high as 40inches...maybe 32-36inches.

Maybe even built-in iSight cams.

[Ramsos]

What's the difference between this 22" Dell for $276 (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-5205) and this 24" Dell for $629 (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-4335)?

Other than the 1680x1050 vs 1920x1200, the 2", and the contrast ratio 800 vs 1000. Seems like a big jump ($353) for those specs.


the difference is the more expensive one can display 1080 HD resolution and the other one cant.

[jayb2000]

C'mon Apple, add component and composite video inputs and I'll buy an ACD. But if you don't then I'm just going to buy a Gateway or Dell.

I am willing to pay extra for the shiny Apple logo, but not unless they add video inputs.

You might want to check out the HP / Hewlett-Packard LP3065 30" Widescreen LCD Computer Display with 3 DVI-D Inputs and USB 2.0 Hub (http://www.engadget.com/2006/09/07/hp-lp3065-30-inch-monitor-details-revealed/)
It comes with the three dual-link DVI-D inputs and two dual-link DVI cables

B&H has it (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?A=details&kw=HELP3065&is=REG&Q=&O=productlist&sku=472427) for $1619, plus a $40 rebate, so only $1579

So almost $200 less with better color and more input.s

[ChrisA]

That insane. Even with price drops the Dell widescreen 20 inch is over 300 dollars cheaper.

They use different technologies. The Apple screens are IPS while Dell has gone with PVA I believe to save money.
Read a very basic introduction here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TFT_LCD#Types

All of the Apple ACD monitors use a 16 ms S-IPS LG.Philips pannel.

Dell uses TN PVA and a few IPS panels but it's random Dell uses multiple supliers so you can't know what you will get when you order. I've heard of people buying and returning multiple 20 monitors untill finaly they got one with a Phillips S-IPS pannel but what a hassel. There is no way to know how many you'd need to return

In the 20" size most Dells ship with the Samsung LTM240M1-L01 inside while Apple uses LG.Philips LM201W01. In the past Dell used the same LG Phillips part.

This really does matter if you are using the system for photography. For games, watching movies and office work it does not matter one bit. But then Apple markets these ACDs to people who make digital content even if very few of their customers actually do.

[archer75]

If they drop the price of their displays another $200 each it would be more reasonable and closer to other monitors. More expensive still but that's apple.

[guzhogi]

Agreed - the single input on the Apple monitors is the #1 reason why I won't consider one. #2 is price. C'mon :apple:

Just out of curiosity, what can 2 inputs provide? And do you mean like 2 of the same kind of inputs or different kinds of inputs (DVI, VGA, HDMI, etc.)? If you want to connect 2 computers to the same monitor, you can always get a KVM switch. I know, that's 1 more thing on your desk, but it lets you connect multiple computers to the same keyboard, mouse and display. Don't know how many people would need that, but it's available.

[SoldOutMatinee]

Could there be any reason to think that this price drop means new displays are coming any second now? There's been some buzz here and there about new displays on the horizon, possibly with built-in iSight cameras....


New displays was my first thought too.

[TWEO]

Yes, I know for a fact the 20" display was £529 a week or 2 ago, and exactly the same now.:(

If you remove the VAT from the UK price it's £450. In todays exchange rate that's $889. Compare that to the $599 now being charged on the US AppleStore. In fact, if the price has come down by $100, it sounds as though it was cheaper in the US even before the price reduction - by a significant amount.

Same thing here in Holland. For example, the 30" model would cost you EUR 1.931 excluding VAT. That's USD 2,581 versus USD 1800 if you buy it in the US. We've already missed out on the previous price cut, so Apple, at least let us profit a little this time :(

[archer75]

Just out of curiosity, what can 2 inputs provide? And do you mean like 2 of the same kind of inputs or different kinds of inputs (DVI, VGA, HDMI, etc.)? If you want to connect 2 computers to the same monitor, you can always get a KVM switch. I know, that's 1 more thing on your desk, but it lets you connect multiple computers to the same keyboard, mouse and display. Don't know how many people would need that, but it's available.

My Dell has DVI, VGA, Svideo and composite. My Gateway has DVI, VGA and 2 sets of component inputs. It makes it alot more versitle.

[JFreak]

C'mon Apple, add component and composite video inputs and I'll buy an ACD. But if you don't then I'm just going to buy a Gateway or Dell. I am willing to pay extra for the shiny Apple logo, but not unless they add video inputs.

Apple Cinema Displays area ALL DIGITAL, which means ONLY DIGITAL connections can be used. Component and composite are analog signals, which is why ACD does not have them (and will never have).

So c'mon, stop whining and buy something that fits your needs.

[princealfie]

Okay, just 10-15 steps closer to my 30" display I really really want! :)

The colorsync profiles, the lack of display controls (acutally a POSITIVE for Color Management) and the more finely tuned LUT's make the ACD a BETTER buy than the dells for Print Production Graphics work -- FOR SURE.

I have both here in our studio.

Agreed. Dell's are wildly inaccurate. Of course, Gateway is even better than Dell hahaha!

[JFreak]

...And yet, they're still more expensive than the competition.

They're high-end monitors, which is why they cost more. Also, strange enough, my high-end Genelecs cost way more than Behringer monitors, but that's the way it is. Whatever sounds or looks closer to the truth (aka "high-end") than the mainstream, it will most likely cost more.

But if you don't *need* the high-end product, you can very well buy cheaper alternative. It's just a great thing that those high-end products are available for those who *need* the best and are not so picky about the price.

You get what you pay for.

[princealfie]

Lol, gimme a break. I can buy 2 Dell Ultrasharps for 1 Cinema Display. That's double the pixel count. And seriously, all those certifications and what not is definitely not worth double the price. Maybe +100 dollars, but not double.

Lack on controls is a good thing? I see the RDF is affecting you.

You got hosed, man by the expert color swatch expert.

Seriously, are you buying only because of price bargain. Monitors are an investment value for the future not something which I treat lightly.

[Rocketman]

"Dual-Link DVI

The 30-inch Cinema HD Display, with its massive load of pixels, requires a graphics cards with dual-link DVI connectivity. No problem. No matter which graphics card you choose for the new Mac Pro, you’ll be able to connect two Apple Cinema Displays, including at least one 30-inch model. And with either the ATI Radeon X1900 XT or the workstation-class NVIDIA Quadro FX4500, you can connect one 30-inch display to each of their dual-link DVI ports."

graphics cards

Should be either graphics card

or

a graphics cards

Should be

graphics cards

http://www.apple.com/displays/
http://www.apple.com/displays/gallery/threequarter.html

and the offending link:

http://www.apple.com/displays/digital.html

How dare they have a typo in a multi-gigabyte web page! :)

Rocketman

[scu]

What's weird on the store site is their links to the gallery and tech specs. They just link to their respective pages outside of the store.

All other products have new pages in the store or whatever that are self-contained. None of this clicking for a pop-up window business. The window size isn't even good.

I think Apple is going to release some sort of new displays soon. Maybe not NAB, but soon. WWDC?

The way their store site is oriented is totally opposite the rest of their hardware products. There will be new displays soon.

-=|Mgkwho

I agree about new displays. However I think they will release them closer to September. They will sell a ton of these present displays with new systems once Leopard comes out in June. Once the cycle ends they will upgrade to better displays in the later half of the year.

[LaDirection]

Dell's 20" and 30" are exactly the same LCD panels than the Apple ones, only the casing and the added Dell inputs are diffenrent. The Dell 24" is far superior to the now VERY dated Apple 23" in both performance and specs.

To top it all off, Apple's monitor STILL aren't HDCP compatible which means if you get a blu ray drive and a graphic card that is HDCP complant in a few months, you will need to buy a NEW monitor to view your blu ray disks!

AFTER THIS REBATE, Apple's prices are still outrageously high for what they offer. I don't know what Apple is waiting for, maybe this is just a way of clearing inventory until a real update at WWDC June 11th, but I've lost faith (and I'm pissed at the idea of having an ugly Dell casing on my desk :-( ... )

[princealfie]

Dell's 20" and 30" are exactly the same LCD panels than the Apple ones, only the casing and the added Dell inputs are diffenrent. The Dell 24" is far superior to the now VERY dated Apple 23" in both performance and specs.

To top it all off, Apple's monitor STILL aren't HDCP compatible which means if you get a blu ray drive and a graphic card that is HDCP complant in a few months, you will need to buy a NEW monitor to view your blu ray disks!

AFTER THIS REBATE, Apple's prices are still outrageously high for what they offer. I don't know what Apple is waiting for, maybe this is just a way of clearing inventory until a real update at WWDC June 11th, but I've lost faith (and I'm pissed at the idea of having an ugly Dell casing on my desk :-( ... )

Then don't buy the Dell if you don't like the looks of it.

[TheBobcat]

Still a rip-off.

[Sutekidane]

Still a rip-off.

Agreed. I think Apple's profit margins are quite large with these displays.

[fblack]

I'm still not sold. Make it

20"-->$399
23"-->24" @ $699
30"-->$1599

and I might buy 2. They may be considered pro monitors, but not everyone has the budget of a succesful pro, yet. Maybe between a Canon EOS 30D, a macpro, plenty of other accessories you got to be more frugal on the monitor. I don't know I think they are ceding market share to more budget monitors.

[O and A]

What's the difference between this 22" Dell for $276 (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-5205) and this 24" Dell for $629 (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=320-4335)?

Other than the 1680x1050 vs 1920x1200, the 2", and the contrast ratio 800 vs 1000. Seems like a big jump ($353) for those specs.

Amount of inputs and memory card reader. Also the res is much higher. And its not 2 inches of space. Its alot more than that. Considering the higher res and the square inches its pretty significantly bigger.

Personally i don't see difference between the 22 inch and the 20 inch dell monitors. Same resolution for both.

I think i'm gonna buy a pair of dell 24 inches to go with the quad we plan on getting at my office. The apple displays just cost too much. Granted they are beautiful but they don't have all the inputs the dell monitors do.

[princealfie]

Still a rip-off.

I find it amusing that Mac users dissing on their own products. WTF?

Seriously, it's important to support more use of these displays not undercut what Apple has generously bequeathed to us.

[O and A]

Dell's 20" and 30" are exactly the same LCD panels than the Apple ones, only the casing and the added Dell inputs are diffenrent. The Dell 24" is far superior to the now VERY dated Apple 23" in both performance and specs.

To top it all off, Apple's monitor STILL aren't HDCP compatible which means if you get a blu ray drive and a graphic card that is HDCP complant in a few months, you will need to buy a NEW monitor to view your blu ray disks!

AFTER THIS REBATE, Apple's prices are still outrageously high for what they offer. I don't know what Apple is waiting for, maybe this is just a way of clearing inventory until a real update at WWDC June 11th, but I've lost faith (and I'm pissed at the idea of having an ugly Dell casing on my desk :-( ... )

Yes the panels are the same this is true. However the backlighting system is different. And this is a major difference. I'm not knocking the dell moniotrs but apples backlighting is more even and doesn't blowout the blacks. You have to really calibrate the dell monitors well. Which you can do. I know because i have a 20 inch dell monitor at home (at 10 percent brightness) Cuz it just blew out the blacks any higher than that. Its a great monitor just different backlighting than apples.

[Howmanoid]

Why do price drops always get announced right after I buy the product?? Still for anyone who was sitting on the fence, now is the time to get the credit cards out! The 30" is a sweeeeeet piece of gear!

[kbmb]

So for someone that wants it strictly for use with my Mac Pro....Web Development, Photo, maybe some video editing.....

Should I consider the Apple or go with the Dell?

The inputs don't matter to me. I just want the DVI to hook the Mac up to....no DVD or Xbox.

The other thing I'm debating on is the 20" vs. the 23".

The price cuts are ok....not great.

-Kevin

[lseven]

At that price, the 23" one is actually pretty reasonable now since it uses an S-IPS panel. Most of the 24" competition uses PVA... or worse, TN panels.


Does anyone know if the panels in the 20" iMac and the 24" iMac are S-IPS or PVA?

[princealfie]

So for someone that wants it strictly for use with my Mac Pro....Web Development, Photo, maybe some video editing.....

Should I consider the Apple or go with the Dell?

The inputs don't matter to me. I just want the DVI to hook the Mac up to....no DVD or Xbox.

The other thing I'm debating on is the 20" vs. the 23".

The price cuts are ok....not great.

-Kevin

The Apple of course! :rolleyes: :cool: :apple: :apple:

[iBug2]

You think this is a good time to buy 30" ACD? I was waiting for price drop but also for spec change. Do you think any marginal improvements will come soon to LCD specs?

[k2k koos]

Great stuff, now all we need for these pricepoints is HD resolution accross the board, and build in iSights. I'm in the market for a 20" to accompany my Mac mini, but am waiting until that model is being updated.

Other than that, no complaints.

[Doozy]

I was so close to buying two 20 inch monitors last night as well as a new MacPro. Good thing I waited, I was going to wait until NAB, hoping prices would come down on the MacPro, and new monitors to arrive.

I think this is a sign not to wait any longer.

[princealfie]

Great stuff, now all we need for these pricepoints is HD resolution accross the board, and build in iSights. I'm in the market for a 20" to accompany my Mac mini, but am waiting until that model is being updated.

Other than that, no complaints.

Please no built-in iSights. I want a new separate webcam because I prefer to control the angle.

[forumBuddy]

I must say, when I bought my 20'' Clear Apple Cinema - it was a display that was worth the premium because it was so far ahead of competition in terms of looks and performance, it wasn't even funny.
Fast forward 2007: these aluminum Cinema displays are mostly outdated performance wise, look no better than new Dell monitors and actually luck extra usability of tilt and inputs. I will no be buying them at any price considering what's available out there.
It's a shame really when you consider how far Apple was with their Clear LCD Displays and PowerMac G4 designs (swing down motherboard panel!) Now Apple computers look like generic PC hardware, minus the flexibility and low price. iMac is the only reminiscence of old Apple.

[stephenmckeague]

I find it amusing that Mac users dissing on their own products. WTF?

Seriously, it's important to support more use of these displays not undercut what Apple has generously bequeathed to us.

I sincerely hope you are being sarcastic. Apple is literally raping it's customers at these price points and it looks like you've just dropped the soap.

[daneoni]

Still a rip-off.

...and a bigger rip-off for UK consumers and non-US consumers in general

[princealfie]

I sincerely hope you are being sarcastic. Apple is literally raping it's customers at these price points and it looks like you've just dropped the soap.

Uh... no I wasn't kidding.

Remember these displays for mostly for PROFESSIONAL not consumer use. Dells are mostly geared for office or cheapskate users but not graphic designers or photographers or even musicians (geewhiz).

I would say that these price points are fair considering that there could be worse right? Consider that you could have bought this:

http://www.neatorama.com/images/2006-08/solid-gold-toilet.jpg

There, feel better eh? :p

[O and A]

Apple Cinema Displays area ALL DIGITAL, which means ONLY DIGITAL connections can be used. Component and composite are analog signals, which is why ACD does not have them (and will never have).

So c'mon, stop whining and buy something that fits your needs.

Why do you say they never will. Whats so hard about putting in analog inputs. No other manufacturer seems to have any problems with it. And they are cheaper.

As for saying hes whining for something that fits his needs I think thats absurd. Considering that the huge majority of PC monitors have analog inputs. So clearly it doesn't just fit HIS need.

I too would prefer apple monitors with multiple inputs. Throw in another DVI port or something or component connection.

[Squonk]

Apple Cinema Displays area ALL DIGITAL, which means ONLY DIGITAL connections can be used. Component and composite are analog signals, which is why ACD does not have them (and will never have).

yep yep. And thus these are meant for applications that require color accuracy. And my moaning for an analog input was to be able to hookup a PC and my Mac to the thing (and I don't want a KVM).

Well, once I upgrade to a MacBook Pro, then my "pc" will have a HDMI connection anyway...

[wankey]

You got hosed, man by the expert color swatch expert.

Seriously, are you buying only because of price bargain. Monitors are an investment value for the future not something which I treat lightly.

I guess it's hopeless trying to make a case on a mac fanboy forum.

But if you do go to other places, you'll see that 99% of people will buy Dell's LCDs. (I know that 100% of Ontario's institutions buy Dell. York, Mcmaster, UofT, etc etc) Now if Apple wants that 1% marketshare, then good for them.

Not everyone's a high end print artist or care about colorsync.

[fblack]

And my moaning for an analog input was to be able to hookup a PC and my Mac to the thing (and I don't want a KVM).

Yep I got the same setup on my old mac and my pc box. DVI KVM switches are IMHO unnecessarily expensive too.

[johnee]

For the high end Print Production Work I do, I would NEVER consider the Dell.

Ever.

Why? What specs about the apple displays are better for your work than a SIMILAR dell display?

[SeaFox]

Why is this listed as an "update" to the product in the Buyer's Guide when they just dropped the price of the existing models? If anything, this is a sign they are trying to clear out the old inventory for new models soon.

So it should be "Buy only if you're poor, new models soon."

[fblack]

I guess it's hopeless trying to make a case on a mac fanboy forum.

But if you do go to other places, you'll see that 99% of people will buy Dell's LCDs. (I know that 100% of Ontario's institutions buy Dell. York, Mcmaster, UofT, etc etc) Now if Apple wants that 1% marketshare, then good for them.

Not everyone's a high end print artist or care about colorsync.

heck in many threads having to do with apple displays you always read of apple owners opting for a dell display. I dont care for dell products but I think that says that apple is not getting as many people to buy their screens as they could. They are losing sales from their own fans, why is that if not for price and features?

[johnee]

I find it amusing that Mac users dissing on their own products. WTF?

Seriously, it's important to support more use of these displays not undercut what Apple has generously bequeathed to us.

blind faith... it just isn't right.

NEVER have blind faith in ANYTHING!!

[Gasu E.]

heck in many threads having to do with apple displays you always read of apple owners opting for a dell display. I dont care for dell products but I think that says that apple is not getting as many people to buy their screens as they could. They are losing sales from their own fans, why is that if not for price and features?

That's correct, and quite intentional.

A lot of people don't seem to recall Apple when made a point of getting out of the low-end monitor business (for a time, you could buy low-end monitors from Apple, but only with third-party labels). That was because low-end monitors are a commodity, and the margins Apple could make at the volumes Apple does are not enough to justify the investment. Apple is really only interested in offering a differentiated product. Apple's current line-up is not for everybody, but the current product is priced right for its features and technology, as proven by the professionals who swear by it. If a Dell suits you better, by all means go for it. Dell is an organization that specializes in superb logistics management and cost-control, with higher volumes than Apple, that can make a profit in a commodity space where Apple can't. Apple makes a lot more profit on a single iPod than it would on trying to duplicate Dell's price/value offering on monitors, so I don't think they would miss the $17.50 profit on that lost monitor sale one little bit.

[dornoforpyros]

coolio, I was just thinking a few weeks ago they were inline for another price drop.

Sadly I have no extra computer money right now.

[joshwest]

That insane. Even with price drops the Dell widescreen 20 inch is over 300 dollars cheaper.

My Compnay has been buying the e207fpw its 20" ws with both dvi and vga inputs they are running 239$ on the dell us store a steal if you ask me.

[shecky]

Not everyone's a high end print artist or care about colorsync.

yes, and those people should be buying dells. i do not know what part of what we are saying seems to be going over your head: apple displays are worth the money for high-end content professionals, not for someone to make a myspace page with.

[killmoms]

For most consumers, yes, the Apple displays are overpriced.

However, they are NOT overpriced for the specs they have and the consumers they're targeting—aka print/web designers and video editors who require color accuracy.

If you need color accuracy, Dell's MVA and TN (ugh!) panels will not deliver. Only true 8-bit S-IPS panels like Apple's (and those from other color-conscious manufacturers who are similarly expensive) will do what you need.

If you DON'T need color accuracy, buy a Dell or whatever else. But don't complain that Apple's overpriced for what they are. You just don't need what they're selling.

[psychofreak]

yes, and those people should be buying dells. i do not know what part of what we are saying seems to be going over your head: apple displays are worth the money for high-end content professionals, not for someone to make a myspace page with.

Mmm....but there are many non-pros who would like a display made by Apple, with all that beauty, but without the price tag. These people (including me) would be willing to sacrifice all the colour syncing goodness for a cheaper bill...

[musicpenguy]

I don't see what apple could update to these displays so I'm happy with them just droping the price every 6 months. iSight?, why is that necessary for these displays. So Apple just keep on droping the price

[oldwatery]

Refurbished Apple Cinema HD Display (23-inch flat panel w/ aluminum enclosure)
• Save 63% off the original price
Original price: $1,999.00
Your price: $749.00
Estimated Ship:
Within 24 hours
Free Shipping


Refurbished Apple Cinema HD Display (30-inch flat panel w/ aluminum enclosure)
Save 55% off the original price
Original price: $3,299.00
Your price: $1,499.00
Estimated Ship:
3-5 business days
Free Shipping

Not bad eh?

[shecky]

Mmm....but there are many non-pros who would like a display made by Apple, with all that beauty, but without the price tag. These people (including me) would be willing to sacrifice all the colour syncing goodness for a cheaper bill...

and that is certainly a reasonable desire, except that apple is choosing not to really go after that market at the moment; hence the current price-point and monitor specs.

[jwa276]

I guess it's hopeless trying to make a case on a mac fanboy forum.

But if you do go to other places, you'll see that 99% of people will buy Dell's LCDs. (I know that 100% of Ontario's institutions buy Dell. York, Mcmaster, UofT, etc etc) Now if Apple wants that 1% marketshare, then good for them.

Not everyone's a high end print artist or care about colorsync.


So you admit that the ACD is indeed better and features truly professional quality... unlike the Dell which is less suitable for design professionals.

As a design professional, why should I accept anything less than professional quality? I shouldn't, and that's why I own a 30" ACD. :)

Go play your games on your dells and gateways and have some fun, but when it's your job and responsibility to make sure the printed color matches the on-screen color, every bit of the $300 difference counts!

KEY POINT: Cinema Displays are more expensive because they are worth it!

[grappler]

Dell has released a better 30" model recently, the 3007WFP-HC (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=222-7175)

Let's compare, shall we:

Viewable Image Size
Dell: 30 inches
Apple: 29.7 inches

Pixel Pitch
Dell: 0.2505mm
Apple: 0.250mm

Resolution
Dell: 2560x1600
Apple: 2560x1600

Viewing Angle
Dell: 178 degrees horizontal and vertical
Apple: 178 degrees horizontal and vertical

Luminance
Dell: 300cd/m^2
Apple: 400cd/m^2

Response Time
Dell: 12ms
Apple: 14ms

Contrast Ratio
Dell: 1000:1
Apple: 700:1

Color Gamut
Dell: 92% of NTSC
Apple: 72% of NTSC

Price
Dell: $1499
Apple: $1799

Dell is clearly the better deal, even though Apple just lowered its price today. I assume/hope this means Apple is about to release an updated version with specs that are competitive with Dell's, but their price for their current offering should be about $500 lower.

Very disappointing, since I've been holding out for a good 30" monitor from Apple.

[Carl Spackler]

Comparing two pieces of computer hardware based on tech specs is about like comparing bourbons based on proof.

[SMM]

Lol, gimme a break. I can buy 2 Dell Ultrasharps for 1 Cinema Display. That's double the pixel count. And seriously, all those certifications and what not is definitely not worth double the price. Maybe +100 dollars, but not double.

Lack on controls is a good thing? I see the RDF is affecting you.

It is worth it to some people. That is why they buy them.

[SMM]

Dell has released a better 30" model recently, the 3007WFP-HC (http://accessories.us.dell.com/sna/productdetail.aspx?c=us&l=en&s=dhs&cs=19&sku=222-7175)

Let's compare, shall we:

Viewable Image Size
Dell: 30 inches
Apple: 29.7 inches

Pixel Pitch
Dell: 0.2505mm
Apple: 0.250mm

Resolution
Dell: 2560x1600
Apple: 2560x1600

Viewing Angle
Dell: 178 degrees horizontal and vertical
Apple: 178 degrees horizontal and vertical

Luminance
Dell: 300cd/m^2
Apple: 400cd/m^2

Response Time
Dell: 12ms
Apple: 14ms

Contrast Ratio
Dell: 1000:1
Apple: 700:1

Color Gamut
Dell: 92% of NTSC
Apple: 72% of NTSC

Price
Dell: $1499
Apple: $1799

Dell is clearly the better deal, even though Apple just lowered its price today. I assume/hope this means Apple is about to release an updated version with specs that are competitive with Dell's, but their price for their current offering should be about $500 lower.

Very disappointing, since I've been holding out for a good 30" monitor from Apple.

They have been selling good 30" displays for quite some time now.

[grappler]

Comparing two pieces of computer hardware based on tech specs is about like comparing bourbons based on proof.

Not as bad as comparing extras like memory card readers :) And the color gamut difference seems rather telling.

But if anyone has actually compared these two monitors (the Dell 3007WFP-HC and the Apple 30") side by side, I would be very interested in their opinion...

[Xavier]

Dang, and I just bought mine yesterday! Anyway, the display is amazing! (20inch)

[paul451]

The Apple display might be aimed at the professional market or in the least the 23 and 30 inch.
However I am sure everyone is going to agree with me that the people that the people who desire a monitor for the colour accuracy is an extremely small portion of the market.
When Apple are selling computers, such as the Mac book and the Mac mini then you do not expect to pay such a high price for 20 inch and even some would argue the 23 inch. These are monitors that look the same as two years ago; the Dell has changed numerous times.
What Apple should do is make available a line of professional and then a line of consumer monitors, to rival makers like Gateway and Dell.
To “princealfie” your comment on saying people should buy it just because it has a “shiny apple logo” is the most absurd thing I have ever heard, after seeing your signature with your setup and seeing a Powermac G3, I was wondering where your loyalty to the Mac is? Not that there is anything with having a G3….

[Carl Spackler]

Not as bad as comparing extras like memory card readers :) And the color gamut difference seems rather telling.

But if anyone has actually compared these two monitors (the Dell 3007WFP-HC and the Apple 30") side by side, I would be very interested in their opinion...

For what it's worth, my post was not aimed directly at you, just happend to come after yours. Out of curiousity, where did you get your color gamut info?

Thanks.

[oldwatery]

Whats with all the Dell posts.
It's like there are only 2 monior suppliers out there.
Why are so many people stuck on comparing Apple to just one manufacturer:confused:
There are many fine monitors available at many price points made by many different manufacturers.
Apple and Dell are just 2 of them offering displays for different people, uses and budgets.
Apple just reduced their price quite considerably especially if you go refurb.
So what's the beef?
As for comparing monitors based purely on specifications...get serious...it's all about what you see not read!

[kbmb]

Dang, and I just bought mine yesterday! Anyway, the display is amazing! (20inch)

What did you buy it for? Work?

I'm tempted to get the 20" but don't know whether I should spend the extra to get the 23" for the 1920x1200 resolution.

How's the 1680x1050 resolution on the 20"?

-Kevin

[cubbie5150]

As far as price/performance mix, the BenQ 24" model (FP241WZ) is a much better monitor than both the Dell & Apple, IMO... I love the design of Apple displays, but others are right: if you don't like the price, then quit b!tching, & buy something else; pretty simple huh? Apple is not "obligated" to provide a cheap monitor. In fact, I hope Apple never goes the mass-production cheap route....

[rog]

$600 for a 20" monitor. You can almost buy 3 20" monitors from other brands at that price!

[oldwatery]

The Apple display might be aimed at the professional market or in the least the 23 and 30 inch.
However I am sure everyone is going to agree with me that the people that the people who desire a monitor for the colour accuracy is an extremely small portion of the market.
When Apple are selling computers, such as the Mac book and the Mac mini then you do not expect to pay such a high price for 20 inch and even some would argue the 23 inch. These are monitors that look the same as two years ago; the Dell has changed numerous times.
What Apple should do is make available a line of professional and then a line of consumer monitors, to rival makers like Gateway and Dell.
To “princealfie” your comment on saying people should buy it just because it has a “shiny apple logo” is the most absurd thing I have ever heard, after seeing your signature with your setup and seeing a Powermac G3, I was wondering where your loyalty to the Mac is? Not that there is anything with having a G3….

Fair comments.

But does Apple need to be selling a budget monitor?
After all the Mini was designed purposely to go with peripherals from other supliers....ones that you had sitting around at the time..was the original concept.
I am curious to hear from people who are buying the Mac Pro series if they want a budget monitor with poor color accuracy?
Even if you are making music I doubt you would penny pinch a few hundred dollars and give up quality.

Once again there is a big portion of the Mac world out there forgetting that we proffessionals have a very different set of values than general users and web surfers.
Just because Apple continues to cater to this huge proffessional market is no reason to bash them. (I can think of a million other reasons to hammer on Apple than this)

This line of thought goes nowhere. Apple cannot and should not spread itself across the computer landscape in an attempt to please everyone.
In fact they do a better job of just that than most other companies out there. For sure there is not a Dell I would ever consider owning but I would not bash them for it.

[BiikeMike]

I'll be gettin me a 30" after NAB, I'm just waiting to see if Apple has anymore tricks up their sleeves before I order my Mac Pro!

[princealfie]

blind faith... it just isn't right.

NEVER have blind faith in ANYTHING!!

Sorry I have prayed about this and pondered and researched and studied and the answer was clear:

Go with the A-man. (using faith and intellect)

[mickeymikey]

People that rant on specs alone will never fully enjoy life. Embrace the intangibles. Premium products offer things beyond what's on paper. Apple's products are no different. Beauty is worth something too.

The Dell is cheaper and arguably better on specs, but it looks hideous compared to the ACD. My 30" lives in my home, where I don't want a big honking piece of black plastic. The beautiful aluminum enclosure of the ACD is simply without equal. So, what's beauty worth? To me it was worth $3,000 when I bought my ACD two years ago.

If Apple is screwing us so much, why didn't this thread start until this morning?

[princealfie]

The Apple display might be aimed at the professional market or in the least the 23 and 30 inch.
However I am sure everyone is going to agree with me that the people that the people who desire a monitor for the colour accuracy is an extremely small portion of the market.
When Apple are selling computers, such as the Mac book and the Mac mini then you do not expect to pay such a high price for 20 inch and even some would argue the 23 inch. These are monitors that look the same as two years ago; the Dell has changed numerous times.
What Apple should do is make available a line of professional and then a line of consumer monitors, to rival makers like Gateway and Dell.
To “princealfie” your comment on saying people should buy it just because it has a “shiny apple logo” is the most absurd thing I have ever heard, after seeing your signature with your setup and seeing a Powermac G3, I was wondering where your loyalty to the Mac is? Not that there is anything with having a G3….

Uh... well, sorry my PowerMac G3 isn't the only Apple I own. I have like 7 other Apple computers including a MacBook in black finish!

Man, the only reason why I put up my PowerMac G3 is because it has the biggest storage space (once I get my 3 drives total) and that will be cool because it proves that Apple is timeless.

An Apple from 1999 is way more usable than any PC from that era.

Same with monitors. Who's gonna use a Dell monitor in like 4-5 years? Duh. Not many.

But on ebay, the clear crystal Apple Studio Displays are still going for a pretty penny.

Only goes to show that Apple retain their value across the year just like a good marriage.

For me, purchasing something is like finding a girl. You can choose the cheap one who commits adultery in 1-2 years or choose a more faithful (expensive) one who will be devoted to you for more than a decade :)

[thejadedmonkey]

Dang, and I just bought mine yesterday! Anyway, the display is amazing! (20inch)
Call them up. they have some price cut protection..

[williedigital]

Same with monitors. Who's gonna use a Dell monitor in like 4-5 years? Duh. Not many.

But on ebay, the clear crystal Apple Studio Displays are still going for a pretty penny.

Only goes to show that Apple retain their value across the year just like a good marriage.



Maybe the price is high because apple makes computers with proprietary display connections so that you have to buy an ASD? On ebay, original 802.11b airport cards go for nearly $100 and isights go for about that much as well. Is the reason because those items "retain their value" better than competing products or because of simple supply and demand constraints created by apple's continual use of non-standard parts? Just because something is more expensive, that doesn't mean that it is "better" or a "better value".

[slffl]

Please no built-in iSights. I want a new separate webcam because I prefer to control the angle.

Ya I'll second that. If they do have isights built in then at least release a seperate standalone isight. Being built into monitors is great for video conferencing, but that's about it. Even then when I had a 15" MBP the angle of isight was too high so my head was cut off.

[killmoms]

Maybe the price is high because apple makes computers with proprietary display connections so that you have to buy an ASD? On ebay, original 802.11b airport cards go for nearly $100 and isights go for about that much as well. Is the reason because those items "retain their value" better than competing products or because of simple supply and demand constraints created by apple's continual use of non-standard parts? Just because something is more expensive, that doesn't mean that it is "better" or a "better value".

Apple monitors haven't had a proprietary display connector in almost three years. Get a new argument, please. :rolleyes:

[koobcamuk]

...
For me, purchasing something is like finding a girl. You can choose the cheap one who commits adultery in 1-2 years or choose a more faithful (expensive) one who will be devoted to you for more than a decade :)

Haha.... not life then :eek:

[slffl]

Maybe the price is high because apple makes computers with proprietary display connections so that you have to buy an ASD? On ebay, original 802.11b airport cards go for nearly $100 and isights go for about that much as well. Is the reason because those items "retain their value" better than competing products or because of simple supply and demand constraints created by apple's continual use of non-standard parts? Just because something is more expensive, that doesn't mean that it is "better" or a "better value".

Um what? Please tell me what constitutes 'non-standard'. Is a firewire webcam non-standard?

[koobcamuk]

If Apple is screwing us so much, why didn't this thread start until this morning?

This has been going on for ages. It's just that the price cut isn't helpful even if you're in the US (compared to dell).

[princealfie]

Maybe the price is high because apple makes computers with proprietary display connections so that you have to buy an ASD? On ebay, original 802.11b airport cards go for nearly $100 and isights go for about that much as well. Is the reason because those items "retain their value" better than competing products or because of simple supply and demand constraints created by apple's continual use of non-standard parts? Just because something is more expensive, that doesn't mean that it is "better" or a "better value".

Agreed with you on the utility <> expensiveness.

However, Apple is a different animal. I have to argue that their use of non-standard parts have revolutionized the PC market.

FW
DVI output
PCI Express
Bluetooth devices

etc. etc.

The point is: Apple led and some followed. It's kinda like

Apple = 300 Spartans versus PC = opposition of Xerxes' armies in some way.

Also original Airport cards are still very good. I have one in my Pismo and it still works unlike the PC cards which are dog slow or nonfunctional. It's just a matter of priorization here.

[atari1356]

Mmm....but there are many non-pros who would like a display made by Apple, with all that beauty, but without the price tag. These people (including me) would be willing to sacrifice all the colour syncing goodness for a cheaper bill...

This is the closest you're going to come to that may be the Samsung 244t:
http://www.samsung.com/Products/Monitor/LCD_Multi_Function/LS24BRBASXAA.asp

Is less expensive than the Apple 23", but still looks very nice... certainly better than the Dell 24". It also has a ton of inputs like s-video, component, analog, etc.

But again, it's a PVA panel... not S-IPS, so you're compromising a bit on color accuracy and viewable angle. (although, from what I've read, once you calibrate the 244t, it's pretty good)

[princealfie]

Haha.... not life then :eek:

Yes, Apple = a fabulous woman in many cases. Being an amateur matchmaker it's hard not to understand that using a ACD inspires the look of love from many ladies in fact.

I consider the ACD as a sine que non device for courting young women in today's world. They consider guys who use it to be exemplary gentlemen who believe in the cause of color fidelity and faithfulness (high correlation r-squared = 0.982).

[princealfie]

This is the closest you're going to come to that may be the Samsung 244t:
http://www.samsung.com/Products/Monitor/LCD_Multi_Function/LS24BRBASXAA.asp

Is less expensive than the Apple 23", but still looks very nice... certainly better than the Dell 24". It also has a ton of inputs like s-video, component, analog, etc.

But again, it's a PVA panel... not S-IPS, so you're compromising a bit on color accuracy and viewable angle. (although, from what I've read, once you calibrate the 244t, it's pretty good)

Indeed but why choose the compromised solution when you don't need to go that route for photographic/graphical use?

[yadmonkey]

The problem for me isn't the price. The deal breaker for me is the lack of input options. How can you charge that much for a display which simply lacks the option to connect more than one component?

[killmoms]

The problem for me isn't the price. The deal breaker for me is the lack of input options. How can you charge that much for a display which simply lacks the option to connect more than one component?

Because the cost associated with using a higher-quality S-IPS panel (and all the color certifications) for color work raises the cost. It's not intended to do what you want, which means you should look elsewhere.

I don't see what's so confusing about this. :confused:

[shecky]

Maybe the price is high because apple makes computers with proprietary display connections so that you have to buy an ASD? On ebay, original 802.11b airport cards go for nearly $100 and isights go for about that much as well. Is the reason because those items "retain their value" better than competing products or because of simple supply and demand constraints created by apple's continual use of non-standard parts? Just because something is more expensive, that doesn't mean that it is "better" or a "better value".

what are you babbling about? how is FW800, FW400, USB2 and DVI "continual use of non standard parts"?

[oldwatery]

Same with monitors. Who's gonna use a Dell monitor in like 4-5 years? Duh. Not many.

But on ebay, the clear crystal Apple Studio Displays are still going for a pretty penny.


Exactly right.
My 2 crystal displays still look amazing....4 years down the road.

Obviously there a many people on this forum who see only money(cheap) as the motivator.

What amazes me is that Apple have always been about quality and longevity.....well at least tried to be;)
Why do these people now want cheap:confused:
To all of you budget boys.....go buy yer Dell and stop bitching about those of us who are more than happy to pay a bit more for much more.

I for one have no wish to see Apple produce run of the mill budget priced consumer orientated products.
What they do is produce top quality pro and consumer gear that is way ahead of the other companies out there in terms of design, quality and value for money.
These monitors, especially at the new prices, are no different.

[princealfie]

The problem for me isn't the price. The deal breaker for me is the lack of input options. How can you charge that much for a display which simply lacks the option to connect more than one component?

why not use adapters then? :rolleyes:

[Clive At Five]

Oh good. They dropped in price... from RIDICULOUS all the way down to DAMN-SPENDY.

-Clive

[oldwatery]

Ya I'll second that. If they do have isights built in then at least release a seperate standalone isight. Being built into monitors is great for video conferencing, but that's about it. Even then when I had a 15" MBP the angle of isight was too high so my head was cut off.

Yep...I agree.
The new monitors should not have built in iSight.
In fact I am still scratching my head as to why they discontinued the original iSight.
It was a good concept that was very adaptable to many situations. Unlike the camera built into my MBP 17 which is anything but flexible.

[yadmonkey]

Because the cost associated with using a higher-quality S-IPS panel (and all the color certifications) for color work raises the cost. It's not intended to do what you want, which means you should look elsewhere.

I don't see what's so confusing about this. :confused:

I just said the problem isn't the cost. I could pay the money, but the deal breaker is the lack of inputs. Are you saying that it would be impossible to make a monitor which uses an S-IPS panel and has multiple inputs?

[princealfie]

I just said the problem isn't the cost. I could pay the money, but the deal breaker is the lack of inputs. Are you saying that it would be impossible to make a monitor which uses an S-IPS panel and has multiple inputs?

Again, not to break in the same point again and again, why not use adapters? :rolleyes:

[oldwatery]

Oh good. They dropped in price... from RIDICULOUS all the way down to DAMN-SPENDY.

-Clive

What are you getting at.
You want it for $100 or something?
Why not go bitch at Mercedes and Lexus and BMW and...and ...and...

Quality comes at a price.

[yadmonkey]

why not use adapters then? :rolleyes:

Adapters? You mean a KVM switch? If you get one which isn't lossy, you'll pay big money for it. PLus you have an additional thing one your desk.

[princealfie]

Adapters? You mean a KVM switch? If you get one which isn't lossy, you'll pay big money for it. PLus you have an additional thing one your desk.

But it's not such a big deal because you get more control with the switchbox. Internal projecting dangling wirey thingeys aren't my style. I like less clutter on the display itself.

[atari1356]

EDIT: sorry, that site appears to have some prevention against linking directly to images... I'll link to their pages instead...

To illustrate my point about viewing angles on S-IPS monitors (like the ones in Apple displays) being greater than other types of LCD displays:

here are images taken from different angles of a typical TN panels:
http://www.behardware.com/articles/647-5/which-22-inch-to-choose-six-monitors-tested-with-reaction-times-from-2-to-5-ms.html

and on this page you can see some PVA (like the Dell 2407) and S-IPS (Dell 3007) examples:
http://www.behardware.com/articles/658-5/lcd-tests-the-acer-and-dell-26-and-27.html

There you can clearly see the benefit of S-IPS.

(and yes, I know that when you're sitting directly in front of your monitor, you're not viewing it from that great of an angle... but sometimes even moving your head slightly can cause a shift in color, and that's bad for graphic pros)

[MacsAttack]

Apple = 300 Spartans versus PC = opposition of Xerxes' armies in some way.


It is never a good idea to use the 300 Spartans as an example to make your point. The Spartans were slaughtered. To the last man.

[princealfie]

It is never a good idea to use the 300 Spartans as an example to make your point. The Spartans were slaughtered. To the last man.

True but I was alluding more to the fact that Apple has taken more risks and they may not have the market share, they are remembered in history more than the opposition. That's what counts.

For example, everyone remembers the Apple Lisa but no one remembers the HP Paviliion series.

[BenRoethig]

Despite using older panels, the 23 and 30 inch displays are pretty good deals. The 20 inch, however, is still almost twice as expensive as nearly any other out there.

[Clive At Five]

What are you getting at.
You want it for $100 or something?
Why not go bitch at Mercedes and Lexus and BMW and...and ...and...

Quality comes at a price.

I'm upset because they tricked me into buying an ADC monitor and now I can't use it with new macs even though the picture is fine. I want a matching monitor but a guy can only spend so much on technology when he makes as little as I do.

-Clive

[Clive At Five]

... no one remembers the HP Paviliion series.

ARGH! Why did you have to remind me of that beast? What a piece of crap.

-Clive

[princealfie]

ARGH! Why did you have to remind me of that beast? What a piece of crap.

-Clive

Because that was considered the exemplary PC of its day, right guys? :eek:

[JackAxe]

Because that was considered the exemplary PC of its day, right guys? :eek:

No, not by any means. :o

<]=)

[JGowan]

Sorry, but in the area of print production, where color match is important, your statement is foolish. In this case you live up to your MacRumors "Newbie" title.::Articulate Biznitch-slap snipped for brevity's sake::

One of the most articulate biznitch-slaps I've ever read. Thanks.

[MonkeyClaw]

I'm upset because they tricked me into buying an ADC monitor and now I can't use it with new macs even though the picture is fine. I want a matching monitor but a guy can only spend so much on technology when he makes as little as I do.

-Clive

Why wouldn't you be able to use it with new Macs? I have an old 17" Clear ADC I snatched from ebay and it works great with my Powerbook which is only 2 years old. Apple sells an adaptor to convert the ADC all in one connector to DVI and USB with a Power cord. Works wonders and you can find one on ebay on the cheap. Here at my University our Multimedia Arts department, we all use 17" on relatively new G5 PowerMacs and they all use the converters. There should be no reason why you can't use an older ADC with a new Mac, just get the converter.

[kavika411]

I'll probably get pounded for saying this by someone who knows more than me, but isn't the price drop simply a matter of clearing inventory so they can roll out the new line with built-in iSight cameras?

[TechnoLawyer]

...And yet, they're still more expensive than the competition.

And they're also very long in the tooth (introduced 3 years ago) and lack features now standard in other monitors. Plus, why no models with iSights now that you can no longer buy an iSight? I hope this price drop is a prelude to new monitors at WWDC.

[itsme92]

Just out of curiosity, what can 2 inputs provide? And do you mean like 2 of the same kind of inputs or different kinds of inputs (DVI, VGA, HDMI, etc.)? If you want to connect 2 computers to the same monitor, you can always get a KVM switch. I know, that's 1 more thing on your desk, but it lets you connect multiple computers to the same keyboard, mouse and display. Don't know how many people would need that, but it's available.

I don't need multiple inputs because I want to hook up multiple computers. I want multiple inputs because when I get around to buying a screen for my Macbook, I want to be able to plug in my PS2, any future gaming systems, and just anything that would let me use the screen as a second TV. Apple displays don't let me do that.

And they cost far more than the compition (just to add insult to the injury)

[princealfie]

I don't need multiple inputs because I want to hook up multiple computers. I want multiple inputs because when I get around to buying a screen for my Macbook, I want to be able to plug in my PS2, any future gaming systems, and just anything that would let me use the screen as a second TV. Apple displays don't let me do that.

And they cost far more than the compition (just to add insult to the injury)

Why would anyone want to hook up a PS2 to a ACD? That's why there is a LCD TV for that purpose! :eek:

[ravenvii]

I'll probably get pounded for saying this by someone who knows more than me, but isn't the price drop simply a matter of clearing inventory so they can roll out the new line with built-in iSight cameras?

I agree with this line of thinking (clearing the inventory, not necessarily the built-in iSight cameras).

[psychofreak]

I agree with this line of thinking (clearing the inventory, not necessarily the built-in iSight cameras).

Touch?
Slimmer? (very probable IMO)
New sizes? (e.g. 24" and 50")

A lot of people have two displays next to each other. The thick edges on the displays make this not very seamless...having a small 'edge' would be very nice...

[mark88]

Still no UK price drop.......

really getting fed up with Apples UK policy lately. The display prices are absurd.

[psychofreak]

Still no UK price drop.......

really getting fed up with Apples UK policy lately. The display prices are absurd.
Not as bad as Adobe's UK policy...

[johnee]

I'll probably get pounded for saying this by someone who knows more than me...

it's pretty sad when someone thinks they will get "pounded" for indicating their perception.

[HiRez]

A lot of people have two displays next to each other. The thick edges on the displays make this not very seamless...having a small 'edge' would be very nice...Good point, I would also like to see this. In fact it would be cool if they sold a monitor where you could remove the frame piece from either edge and it would giveyou one edge where the screen goes right to the edge. You remove the left piece from one and the right piece from another and put them next to each other and you have a gigantic almost-seamless desktop.

[dante@sisna.com]

Why? What specs about the apple displays are better for your work than a SIMILAR dell display?

Read my post on Page of two of this thread -- The Truth is Out There.

Not as bad as comparing extras like memory card readers :) And the color gamut difference seems rather telling.

But if anyone has actually compared these two monitors (the Dell 3007WFP-HC and the Apple 30") side by side, I would be very interested in their opinion...

That color gamut, Dell's poorly turned LUT's (Color Lookup Tables), the lack of a true 10 bit to 12 bit RGB signal (there are ususally 8/10/8/ versus true 10/10/10 or 12/12/12), and the preponderance of so many user controls on the monitor will get a graphic artist into giant trouble for High End Color Match Print Production, Photo Reproduction and some web production work.

For Video and Casual use, that Dell rocks.

::Articulate Biznitch-slap snipped for brevity's sake::

One of the most articulate biznitch-slaps I've ever read. Thanks.

Yes, in this case deserved, for sure.

Spank.

[brassplayersrok]

*thinks of the student price payed when the cinema displays first came out, and looks at the new student prices and lowers head onto desk and weeps* :o

the new prices make these practically a steal now




alex

[itsme92]

Why would anyone want to hook up a PS2 to a ACD? That's why there is a LCD TV for that purpose! :eek:

Yeah but I would be using the screen mostly for computer use, but I would want to be able to plug in a PS2 too. I don't want to get an LCD TV if 90% of the time I use it I am using it in computer mode.

[Xavier]

What did you buy it for? Work?

I'm tempted to get the 20" but don't know whether I should spend the extra to get the 23" for the 1920x1200 resolution.

How's the 1680x1050 resolution on the 20"?

-Kevin

Home use. I probably would go with the 23inch now, but the 20inch was still a good buy. I love it completely over my old Studio 15inch. Widescreen is amazing!

[fblack]

That's correct, and quite intentional.

A lot of people don't seem to recall Apple when made a point of getting out of the low-end monitor business (for a time, you could buy low-end monitors from Apple, but only with third-party labels). That was because low-end monitors are a commodity, and the margins Apple could make at the volumes Apple does are not enough to justify the investment. Apple is really only interested in offering a differentiated product. Apple's current line-up is not for everybody, but the current product is priced right for its features and technology, as proven by the professionals who swear by it. If a Dell suits you better, by all means go for it. Dell is an organization that specializes in superb logistics management and cost-control, with higher volumes than Apple, that can make a profit in a commodity space where Apple can't. Apple makes a lot more profit on a single iPod than it would on trying to duplicate Dell's price/value offering on monitors, so I don't think they would miss the $17.50 profit on that lost monitor sale one little bit.

I understand that and dont disagree with the strategy up to a point. However, there is more than just the low end (walmart) and high end (bloomingdales) or a chevy aveo v.s. a BMW. There's also room in the middle (insert your favorite mid priced car, store, product etc.).:) Especially if you want to grow market share.

Also to be fair apple like everyone else sometimes drops the ball on quality. The 23" and 30" back in 2005 had pinkish greys and not the deepest blacks. The dell 24" backed then looked better. As I understand it apple has corrected the issue since then. I've been using macs since about 1986, but even i dont believe all the hype.;)

[CJD2112]

Hmmmm, me thinks new Cinema Displays are on the way... :D

[Aperture]

The Cinemas are great monitors, I just can't justify spending $600 on a 20'' monitor when I could get it much cheaper at Dell. If I was a pro photographer, videographer, etc I would look at the 30'' though, I mean that thing IS amazing. Especially with dual 30''s. :eek:

[sam10685]

That insane. Even with price drops the Dell widescreen 20 inch is over 300 dollars cheaper.

dell make pieces of junk though.

[Eidorian]

dell make pieces of junk though.I'm sure Dell made the panel for it. They have rather good monitors for most users. All of my department's Macs have Dell LCD's and they're great.

[Hybo]

Still no UK price drop.......

really getting fed up with Apples UK policy lately. The display prices are absurd.

Don't write them off just yet...

* 30-inch Cinema HD Display. Stunning aluminium profile. Massive 2560x1600 resolution. Go big for £1199 (UK) / €1799 (Ireland).
* 23-inch Cinema HD Display. At 1920x1200 resolution, welcome to the High Definition desktop, just £599 (UK) / €899 (Ireland).
* 20-inch Cinema Display. Wide aspect (1680x1050 resolution) and great picture quality for just £399 (UK) / €599 (Ireland).


Taken from http://www.apple.com/uk/hardware/

Just looks like they didn't update the UK store yet. :D

[floatingspirit]

That insane. Even with price drops the Dell widescreen 20 inch is over 300 dollars cheaper.

Sadly yes...I luv ya Apple, but I'd sooner buy RAM from you than a display (and that's pretty much never).

[Cult Follower]

Just one more price drop and I will finally fulfill my desires.:)

[robPOD]

I just orded a 23" cinema display:D :D :D :D

[vohdoun]

Don't write them off just yet...


Taken from http://www.apple.com/uk/hardware/

Just looks like they didn't update the UK store yet. :D

Whats taking them so long...

[matticus008]

But if you do go to other places, you'll see that 99&#37; of people will buy Dell's LCDs. (I know that 100% of Ontario's institutions buy Dell. York, Mcmaster, UofT, etc etc) Now if Apple wants that 1% marketshare, then good for them.
Problem solved. Apple isn't trying to sell a Cinema Display to every person who's looking to buy a monitor for a computer. They're quite content with catering to the small number of high-end customers who choose to buy the monitors they make. As pointed out, they quite deliberately dropped consumer-grade displays years ago.
I dont care for dell products but I think that says that apple is not getting as many people to buy their screens as they could. They are losing sales from their own fans, why is that if not for price and features?
It's not about volume. Any company can achieve greater market share by lowering prices on any product. Skippy could probably launch a whole line of condiments and nut-based products to make more money--and yet, here they are, still making peanut butter and not much else. They seem to be doing well enough.

What Apple should do is make available a line of professional and then a line of consumer monitors, to rival makers like Gateway and Dell.
And make little to no money, barely denting the marketplace? What would consumer displays get them? It wouldn't drive people to buy more Macs, it certainly wouldn't generate a profit (they'd have to suffer the same razor-thin margins as Dell, and a fraction of the volume), and it doesn't matter in the least to most people. Does the average person care that they have a Panasonic DVD player and a Toshiba TV? Of course not. Why would they care if they had an Apple computer and a Dell monitor?

The number of people with an obsessive desire to match and no willingness to pay for that coordination is far smaller than the current Cinema Display market. And not only is it smaller, but it has no profit potential even on the per-unit basis.
And they're also very long in the tooth (introduced 3 years ago) and lack features now standard in other monitors.
They've been updated in that same period with new panels. Why redesign a classic? My Kitchenaid Pro HD stand mixer looks roughly the same as my 1970s-vintage one (the internals are different, just like the ACD). Lots of other companies redesign their models every year. They don't have the loyalty of customers or the refined, classic design, so they need gimmicks to attract customers. If you have a trusted, stylish product, you don't need to mess with it, and you don't need to dominate the market with it.

The mixer I have is a professional model with an abysmally small market share in the world of stand mixers. But those of us who buy them wouldn't buy anything else.

[princealfie]

Again it just stuns me that so many Mac users (maybe pseudo?) are more supportive of the opposing company than the own brand of Macland?

Of course, I'm trying to boost the productivity using a ACD. I think that my photography will be more accurate from RAW file to final printout and for me, that will save me tons of dolo for my time and clientele.

But again, if you are gonna get a cheapo monitor use a Samsung or a Gateway or something like NEC where at least they have the decency to have reasonable parts on it.

[aafuss1]

PC Authority (http://pcauthority.com.au) magazine reviewed the 20" in its May issue and noted the high price of Apple's displays-now they're even cheaper.

I bought my 20" ACD in 2005 for $1200-then the DVI cable broke, so I got it replaced free, and have no problems with it since.

New Aussie prices:
20" $899
23" $1399
30" $2798

[grappler]

Look, it's fine that Apple's display costs more, but they need to up the quality. 92% of NTSC color gamut is expected now, and available from cheap brands such as Dell. Ditto for 1000:1 contrast. Bring the specs into 2007 Apple, and I will pay a premium for the quality and design.

[princealfie]

Look, it's fine that Apple's display costs more, but they need to up the quality. 92% of NTSC color gamut is expected now, and available from cheap brands such as Dell. Ditto for 1000:1 contrast. Bring the specs into 2007 Apple, and I will pay a premium for the quality and design.

I'm afraid that Apple excels in both easily. In fact, highest contrast doesn't mean that the color gamut is accurately reproduced.

[avkills]

The NTSC gamut spec is rather useless when shopping for a computer monitor considering that computers don't operate in the NTSC color gamut. That figure would be great for a monitor to be used as a *video* preview monitor, but even then, the pro is going to opt for a broadcast monitor from Sony.

I have a 30" ACD and it rocks. And the exacting color you get when paired with a Apple machine is what completes the puzzle. I want my computer monitor to display exactly what my GPU thinks it is sending; very hard to do when you have a monitor with *tint* *color* *brightness* *contrast*, etc etc, one little bump of those controls and the calibration is wanked.

-mark

[yojitani]

wow! with the student discount, this puts the 30" ACD within $100 of the Dell 30" .. Screen real estate is a funny thing. this time last year, I was using a 17" Studio display, now a 24" Dell, but even that seems to be getting too small. I agree at any rate, ACD's are visibly better at true color reproduction. The dells are quite limited. In the video editing suites here, there is always a 30" ACD and a 30" Dell. In the last 18 months, I have only seen the dell on for some kid checking his email..

[pavelbure]

anyone think the reason these are being discounted is due to the fact that leopard may come out with touch-screen capabilities ?

[checkflag]

100$ not enough. New displays 'round corner. Still, I would rather drink horse urine than ever put a "dell" on my desk. Thank you, i will wait for new displays.

Also, whats up with ocho's. Released, yet no reduction in price on woodcrests?
Do we need to wait till the other ocho's come out?

problem is time, I need to order my system before my upcoming photo shoot.
(intl. print advert I am principle photographer).

[dante@sisna.com]

anyone think the reason these are being discounted is due to the fact that leopard may come out with touch-screen capabilities ?

WOW -- Interesting Point.

I am holding on getting a second 30" until NAB -- Very intriguing thought. Could be an iPhone integration -- I could see it.

[daneoni]

Still no UK price drop.......

really getting fed up with Apples UK policy lately. The display prices are absurd.

Price drops now reflected on the UK store (20"=£399)

[defz]

Dante, I read back through the old posts and saw that you said several times "for Video go with the Dell".

I'm doing indie video production, and am getting ready to buy a monitor. Technically wouldn't I want the best color representation that the S-IPS panel offers? I'm not seeing from the specs why I would want the Dell. If anyone can clear that up, it'd be much appreciated.

[MajorTom]

The UK Apple Store has been updated to include the new lower prices for the Cinema Displays:

20" £529 - £399 (-£130)
23" £779 - £599 (-£180)
30" £1549 - £1199 (-£350)

:)

[SiliconAddict]

someday I'll be putting a 30" next to my 24" that will be flipped into portrait mode. However I don't foresee myself getting an Apple. Simply not enough bang for the buck. But when the Dell 30” drops below 1K. . . .I’m so there.

[sethypoo]

I wish they'd put in a couple HDMI inputs, a component input, and an analog input and sell it at these prices, then we'd have one sweet HDTV/Cinema Display!

[Whistleway]

WTF a bogus buyer's guide. hmm.. losing faith in the objectivity of that guide after seeing this..

Product LCDs
Recommendation: Buy Now! - Product just updated
http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Apple_Cinema_Displays

[GanleyBurger]

.
sounds like...

Blowout!!!

Where's the built-in eyesight?

Octo as an option... and no new designs...

Weird Wednesday!!!:eek:

[zioxide]

WTF a bogus buyer's guide. hmm.. losing faith in the objectivity of that guide after seeing this..


http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/#Apple_Cinema_Displays

Yeah, this shouldn't say product just updated. It should probably say something like "Product price just lowered - could be indication of Apple clearing out stock to prepare for new models" or something.

They didn't update anyhing but the price.

[alansky]

It's obvious that some readers do not appreciate the difference in quality between the Apple Cinema Display and the Dell what's-its-face, but that's ok. Some folks think Chevys are "just as good" as BMW's because they're the same size and have just as much horsepower. They might even think Chevys are better than BMW's because they cost less money! Anyone who thinks buying a color monitor is like buying a sack of potatoes should by all means buy a Dell. You'll love it! :cool:

[matticus008]

WTF a bogus buyer's guide. hmm.. losing faith in the objectivity of that guide after seeing this..

All "buy now!" means is that if you were going to buy that product, there's no reason to wait for an update/price drop because it just happened. It's not saying "buy a Cinema Display and not a Dell!"

Where exactly is the objectivity problem?

[dante@sisna.com]

Dante, I read back through the old posts and saw that you said several times "for Video go with the Dell".

I'm doing indie video production, and am getting ready to buy a monitor. Technically wouldn't I want the best color representation that the S-IPS panel offers? I'm not seeing from the specs why I would want the Dell. If anyone can clear that up, it'd be much appreciated.

The Dell 30 inch, and some 24's are the S-IPS panel.

When I said go with the Dell for Video, I was basically trying to send a "peace-offering" to so many on these posts who love the Dell's. And they do offer benefits -- the multiple inputs, for example are very useful. The gamut for broadcast is spectacular. They can swivel and mechanically adjust better than the APPLE.

MY OWN PREFERENCE is that I would still go with the ACD as I am a big fan of out of the box colorsync. I use it for not only Print Work but also for Flash, Flash Video, Web Production, etc. I justed ripped a whole bunch of print images down to a website and Flash Photo Multimedia Trailer -- I like knowing exactly how a tagged image should look via colorsync and I embed these profiles in ALL my images, even web images from Photoshop via "save for web" and also in my Final Cut Express video.

You can still do this with the Dell -- buy a $250 profiler and profile your Dell and build a Colorsync Software profile.

But for out of the box performance, the Apple wins. Some will say that the Apple color degrades and/or changes over time and that profiling is necessary anyway -- BUT -- I am suspicious of these claims and wonder how many years it takes for these changes to occur. It used to be every few months BUT again, this is old data -- newer monitors are a great deal more stable. I have talked with many a color engineer about this.

As I get more data I will post.

Bottom line, for Video, the Dells are a very solid choice -- so is the new HP, and the Apple is pretty darn good as well -- slightly less gamut, inputs, and mechanical adjustment but out of the box color profile.

Good luck. Let us know what you go with and how you like it.

Dante

[dante@sisna.com]

The NTSC gamut spec is rather useless when shopping for a computer monitor considering that computers don't operate in the NTSC color gamut. That figure would be great for a monitor to be used as a *video* preview monitor, but even then, the pro is going to opt for a broadcast monitor from Sony.

I have a 30" ACD and it rocks. And the exacting color you get when paired with a Apple machine is what completes the puzzle. I want my computer monitor to display exactly what my GPU thinks it is sending; very hard to do when you have a monitor with *tint* *color* *brightness* *contrast*, etc etc, one little bump of those controls and the calibration is wanked.

-mark

Bingo -- You've Got it Exactly -- it is so good to see these Display discussions evolve to where they belong, which is an honest discussion of the facts, the markets to which displays are best suited, and the technical specs.

[vendettabass]

I'm at home right now (so cannot access the HE site), and was just wondering the price of the 23"er with HE discount.

Pretty serious about grabbing one!

[Evangelion]

But it's not such a big deal because you get more control with the switchbox. Internal projecting dangling wirey thingeys aren't my style. I like less clutter on the display itself.

Um, an extra DVI-port in the back of the display is "clutter"?

[Chappers]

I still wonder why we Brits have to pay these prices?

UK Apple Store - Two 3.0GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon = £2659 or $5,247

OR

US Apple Store - Two 3.0GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon = $3997

1 x cinema display (23") = $899

1 x 80GB iPod video $349

Total $5245

leaving me with $2 for the bus home.

[MagicWok]

Those cinema displays are hideously expensive both side of the Atlantic. I ended up purchasing a A04 rev Dell 2407WFP which was £200 cheaper than the Apple equivalent, with numerous benefits:
- 1" extra space
- Extra inputs: VGA/Component & Composite as well as DVi
- Inbuilt multi-card Reader
- 90 degree rotatable

AND I like the look of the Dell screen, it's build quality is great. Also, this is another example of the UK getting ripped off time and time again. Another example, £425 for a PS3 here, £250 for a PS3 in Japan :mad::mad:

Now if I were in the states, and had $900 dollars to place on a screen, I'd save for a small $99 and get a massive 37" 1080p Westy with a multitude of inputs including HDMI. That's $99 for 13" extra display space, and HDMI, good design and reputation!

Apple - you're a rip off.:(

[daneoni]

I'm at home right now (so cannot access the HE site), and was just wondering the price of the 23"er with HE discount.

Pretty serious about grabbing one!

23"=£528.75

[vendettabass]

cheers daneoni

[matticus008]

Um, an extra DVI-port in the back of the display is "clutter"?
No, the DVI cable attached to it is.

Personally, I'd like just one cable coming out of the base of the monitor (ADC style), going to a break-out box that could be hidden. The box would have a standard power cable and all the inputs in the world on it. I don't want all those cables swimming around my desk (even bundled with zip ties), just like the person you're responding to.

[Jim Campbell]

I am speaking to the High End Graphics Arts Print Production market. Last I checked, some Apple users still worked in this market.

Although now working in a different field, I spent 10 years in print design/production and I concur whole-heartedly. One of the best things about Apple kit is that stuff like colour matching does work pretty much out of the box - in my experience every single time - and that benefit has a significant cash value.

It's very difficult to explain this to people who aren't familiar with the intricacies of print production - I had a similar argument elsewhere a few months ago and it was suggested to me that if I was having trouble getting true colour values on the monitor, I should assign hex values to them.

Sigh ...

The only time I ever had trouble with variance between display and printed colour was using a third party monitor. It may have cost a couple of hundred quid less to buy, but the entire print run that had to be re-done cost rather more than that ...

Cheers!

Jim

[Evangelion]

No, the DVI cable attached to it is.

If you don't like the "clutter" of additional cable, then don't use it. Sheesh. But for those who would like to attach a second computer to the screen, that additional port would be a godsend. Those people who worry about their desktop-clutter can simply choose to not use the additional port.

Personally, I'd like just one cable coming out of the base of the monitor (ADC style), going to a break-out box that could be hidden. The box would have a standard power cable and all the inputs in the world on it.

Why replace a simple solution (additional port) with an overtly complicated and expensive solution=

I don't want all those cables swimming around my desk (even bundled with zip ties), just like the person you're responding to.

Then don't use the additional port. Just because it would be there, does NOT mean that you would be forced to use it. But simply offering the possibility to those who want a second port, does not make your desktop more cluttered.

I really fail to see the problem here.

[Jarcrew]

One thing to note is that finally, these things are competitively priced against the likes of Dell here in the UK - in fact, the 30" is actually cheaper than Dell's offering, and the rest aren't that much more. I think with this in mind, a lot of people are going to say "Ah, screw it" and get the Apple version. It's mighty tempting.

[roblin]

One thing to note is that finally, these things are competitively priced against the likes of Dell here in the UK - in fact, the 30" is actually cheaper than Dell's offering, and the rest aren't that much more. I think with this in mind, a lot of people are going to say "Ah, screw it" and get the Apple version. It's mighty tempting.

I did this today. Screw dell and their ever-changeing prices. I am soon a member of the 30"-club.

In Sweden its:
15495.00kr for the ACD (with educ)
18227,50 kr for the dell 3007HC.

ACD is ~$400 cheaper.

The dell may be the better screen, but the apple is more beautiful. And the higher second hand value for the ACD clearly makes the Apple a better buy for the time beeing.


//First post

[Mooganic]

After the price reductions the 30" model is "only" £1199 (or $2366) in the UK.

[superleccy]

The UK Apple Store has been updated to include the new lower prices for the Cinema Displays:

20" £529 - £399 (-£130)
23" £779 - £599 (-£180)
30" £1549 - £1199 (-£350)

:)

Hooray! Jolly japes & tomfoolery ahoy! :D

SL

[olemed]

Why is this listed as an "update" to the product in the Buyer's Guide when they just dropped the price of the existing models? If anything, this is a sign they are trying to clear out the old inventory for new models soon.

So it should be "Buy only if you're poor, new models soon."

Exactly. This is false information!

[princealfie]

Although now working in a different field, I spent 10 years in print design/production and I concur whole-heartedly. One of the best things about Apple kit is that stuff like colour matching does work pretty much out of the box - in my experience every single time - and that benefit has a significant cash value.

It's very difficult to explain this to people who aren't familiar with the intricacies of print production - I had a similar argument elsewhere a few months ago and it was suggested to me that if I was having trouble getting true colour values on the monitor, I should assign hex values to them.

Sigh ...

The only time I ever had trouble with variance between display and printed colour was using a third party monitor. It may have cost a couple of hundred quid less to buy, but the entire print run that had to be re-done cost rather more than that ...

Cheers!

Jim

I agree. Lord, what fools most of these mortals be. :D

[avkills]

Now if I were in the states, and had $900 dollars to place on a screen, I'd save for a small $99 and get a massive 37" 1080p Westy with a multitude of inputs including HDMI. That's $99 for 13" extra display space, and HDMI, good design and reputation!

Apple - you're a rip off.:(

That is a good plan except for the fact that *TV's* marketed for HDTV max out at 1920x1080 resolution and are designed to be operated in the NTSC color space.

The 30" displays from Apple and Dell are 2560x1600. It is basically like having two 1280x1024 screens with some extra vertical space.

Anybody who seriously chooses a Plasma or HDTV LCD TV or a DLP or whatever for a computer monitor needs to have their head examined. Now as a second monitor with perhaps a Black Magic HDMI output card would rock (well for video guys at least).

-mark

[olemed]

It's obvious that some readers do not appreciate the difference in quality between the Apple Cinema Display and the Dell what's-its-face, but that's ok. Some folks think Chevys are "just as good" as BMW's because they're the same size and have just as much horsepower. They might even think Chevys are better than BMW's because they cost less money! Anyone who thinks buying a color monitor is like buying a sack of potatoes should by all means buy a Dell. You'll love it! :cool:

Good comparison. I recently test-drove a new Impala and was not impressed, felt like I was driving a granny car. My Acura TL is better looking and has just as much pep. What was I thinking?! If I had the bucks, I'd certainly buy a new Acura or better yet, a new BMW.

Apple displays all the way. I've seen a Dell side by side with an ACD. No comparison, especially for photo work.

[JFreak]

Um, an extra DVI-port in the back of the display is "clutter"?

Yes, it is. One of the great features of Apple Cinema Displays is that it takes every input via single cord. That's huge! The downside though is that I have always santed to be able to buy longer cord ;)

[Evangelion]

Yes, it is.

No it isn't, since you can't even see the port. What you CAN see is the cable going to the port, but if that cable annoys you, then you have a REALLY simple solution to the problem: Don't use the extra port.

One of the great features of Apple Cinema Displays is that it takes every input via single cord. That's huge!

It's huge if you only have a one computer. If you have more than one, you are pretty much screwed. You COULD have it both ways. Have the current setup with the cable, and in addition have a vacant DVI-port on the monitor. If the extra port is not needed, no problem. It would not cause any extra clutter. But if someone needs that extra port, it would be there. Right now people who need more than one port need to look elsewhere for their monitors.

[Jim Campbell]

Anybody who seriously chooses a Plasma or HDTV LCD TV or a DLP or whatever for a computer monitor needs to have their head examined.

Ahem. Unless you're mainly using it to display TV, presumably? The £500 I shelled out for a 27" LCD TV compares quite favourably with a similarly sized monitor and I would consider a monitor overkill for a computer used primarily for TV and DVD playback ...

Cheers!

Jim

[arn]

Yeah, this shouldn't say product just updated. It should probably say something like "Product price just lowered - could be indication of Apple clearing out stock to prepare for new models" or something.

They didn't update anyhing but the price.

The price drop is as good as an update with Apple's displays.

Apple never drops prices to "clear inventory" for new models. If you are looking for a new display from apple. This is probably the best time to buy for the next few months.

arn

[erova]

The price drop is as good as an update with Apple's displays.

Apple never drops prices to "clear inventory" for new models. If you are looking for a new display from apple. This is probably the best time to buy for the next few months.

arn

while i'm sure there's a far more recent example, I had my first taste of Apple buyer-remorse when the Rev A G4 Powerbooks had a price drop in September 2001, and then in October the Rev B's came out...

[princealfie]

while i'm sure there's a far more recent example, I had my first taste of Apple buyer-remorse when the Rev A G4 Powerbooks had a price drop in September 2001, and then in October the Rev B's came out...

Remember, there's always worse. I remember getting a 60 GB ipod right before the 80g ones came out. But that's life.

[Zukum]

The colorsync profiles, the lack of display controls (acutally a POSITIVE for Color Management) and the more finely tuned LUT's make the ACD a BETTER buy than the dells for Print Production Graphics work -- FOR SURE.

I have both here in our studio.



It is reasonable given the specs: IPS Panel, Colorsync SWOP Certification, Better LUT's than a Dell, and LACK of DISPLAY CONTROLS, which is actually a positive for color management.



For the high end Print Production Work I do, I would NEVER consider the Dell.

Ever.



It is not nearly as good of a monitor for Graphics and Print Production where SWOP color match is important. I would be in court with that Dell -- that's insane!

Gladly pay the extra $300 bucks.

What percentage of mac users work Professionaly in "Print Production Graphics workers"? Maybe 1%. Apple is just asking for the other 99% to go with Dell. I got a 24" Dell for $630 and it is BEAUTIFULL!

[Bosunsfate]

This is probably the best time to buy for the next few months.


I would certainly agree with you that nothing is going to come out before the release of Leopard. However, NAB may trump that.

anyone think the reason these are being discounted is due to the fact that leopard may come out with touch-screen capabilities ?

Its in this area that I think the real display upgrade is going to happen. However, I'm now thinking that if some type of display like this does come out during the WWDC that it will cost over $5000:eek:

So, if you want a good display now is the time...

The irony for me is that I was waiting for a display upgrade since August. I should have just purchased it then...

[avkills]

Ahem. Unless you're mainly using it to display TV, presumably? The £500 I shelled out for a 27" LCD TV compares quite favourably with a similarly sized monitor and I would consider a monitor overkill for a computer used primarily for TV and DVD playback ...

Cheers!

Jim

Ok, I'll agree to that point. But then again, I would not use a computer to play back TV or DVD unless I was in a bind, ie I missed 24 or something, in which case I buy it and then watch it on my computer.

That said, I would never buy a computer display for a home entertainment center. And closest thing I'll ever have to a real computer in my entertainment center is a Apple TV, but I am still not sold on the idea unless movies start being offered in 720p. I have an Airport Express, for streaming music to my entertainment center, but that is a bit different in my opinion.

-mark

[matthewHUB]

seems like something else is going on here. When have apple ever discounted a whole line worldwide???

And more to the point, they have really significantly reduced them in UK to balance how weak the dollar is at the moment. Seems to me like that want to shift whatever inventory that have of them. Perhaps new displays at WWDC?

Perhaps someone can tell me how soon they start offering rebates and free ipods and things before a product gets updated? i think here they are just offering a discount to get the few people 'on the fence' to buy, then update in June. Multitouch 'secret features' anyone?

M

[matthewHUB]

Oh and another thing...

I really want an apple display to hook up with my PS3, but the brightness and the response time is pitiful. 13ms? Most screens out there nowadays have 8ms or even 5ms, and they are dirt cheap. Granted they are lcd tvs, but surely the tech is the same. i hate being able to see the lag, which you can if you use the right vids/interface.

[DomToren]

Well, here in Utrecht (the Netherlands) the price of the 23" dropped from 1199 euros to 899 so I ran and bought one. 899 is roughly the same as screens of the same size and the quality of the cinema display is fantastic.

Jan

[avus]

What percentage of mac users work Professionaly in "Print Production Graphics workers"? Maybe 1&#37;.

"work Professionaly in 'Print Production Graphics workers'" I am not trying to be in Grammar Police, but this really gives me a chuckle. :p

I don't have a number to back this up, but I can guarantee you that "Mac users who work in Graphics and Print Production" are bigger than 1%.

[shecky]

What percentage of mac users work Professionaly in "Print Production Graphics workers"? Maybe 1%.

did you know that 82.7% of statistics posted on internet forums are made up?

[xJulianx]

did you know that 82.7% of statistics posted on internet forums are made up?

Heh heh. :p

[princealfie]

did you know that 82.7% of statistics posted on internet forums are made up?

Or 60.5% of the guys here on macrumors don't own macs? :eek:

[killmoms]

What percentage of mac users work Professionaly in "Print Production Graphics workers"? Maybe 1%. Apple is just asking for the other 99% to go with Dell. I got a 24" Dell for $630 and it is BEAUTIFULL!

Um... print production is, like, Apple's bread and butter. :rolleyes:

[dante@sisna.com]

No it isn't, since you can't even see the port. What you CAN see is the cable going to the port, but if that cable annoys you, then you have a REALLY simple solution to the problem: Don't use the extra port.



It's huge if you only have a one computer. If you have more than one, you are pretty much screwed. You COULD have it both ways. Have the current setup with the cable, and in addition have a vacant DVI-port on the monitor. If the extra port is not needed, no problem. It would not cause any extra clutter. But if someone needs that extra port, it would be there. Right now people who need more than one port need to look elsewhere for their monitors.

The answer is simple: KVM Switch -- you can put as many monitors on your ACD as needed - I have an 8-port KVM switch -- you can even buy KVM's with built in signal converters -- they cost a bit but deliver anything you basically need.

[mdriftmeyer]

If they drop another $300 I'll consider buying one.

If they released those enclosures with OLED screens, at those prices, then I'd buy one.

[teejaysplace]

I noticed the display drop at the Apple Store before it made forums, which actually surprised me a bit, given all the "new display" talk that's been bantering about lately. Obviously, it's a good move to reduce inventory before the lineup is refreshed. Combine this with the fact that the external iSight camera inexplicably vanished from store shelves late last year (and is now commanding obscene prices on eBay) and it would appear that a screen shakeup is definately in order. It strikes me as curious, however, that Apple would have waited so long to add the iSight feature to it's cinema displays when the technology has been available to them for so long. I'd suggest that perhaps Cupertino has something more dramatic up it's sleeve. I'll point to the MacRumors article on the "Integrated Sensing Display" patent, which created a small splash last January, but then went quiet among the multi-touch and iPhone rumours. I'm going to extrapolate that if the the next gen displays don't "WOW", then it's only a matter of time before Integrated Sensing technology becomes the next big thing. In point of fact, if Apple & Co. had their druthers, I'm sure they'd choose to reveal a display that actually sees you, rather than one with a black dot strapped to it's face. (That is so last fall.) After all, what could be more Jobs-esque than revealing the world's first "seeing" display years before the technology goes mainstream. That would also force Dell to create a cheap knockoff version, and Microsoft to relase Windows Vista Multi-Interactive RealTime Media Chat Center Editon, that would cost an additional $500 and still need 80 different plug-ins to work correctly.

[BiikeMike]

Interesting, I am deciding on the 30" or 23" (or going with somthing else entirely, but i'll probably end up with an ACD) and I was walking with my fiancee to work to pick up her paycheck today and we passed an apple authorized retailer here in Richmond VA. I told her we should stop in so I could show her the size of the 30" and how it would affect our desk area, etc.

They didn't have one, and when I asked the woman about it, she very matter-of-factly said that they would not have one until the new updates came out. I asked her about the updates, and she said that if I wanted to save $100, buy one now, but if I wanted one with built in iSight, wait until April 16th.....:eek:


I didn't think these people were granted inside info like that, and if they are, there is a NDA involved. So, either she has been on MacRumors too much, or she actually knows something we don't!

[matticus008]

If you don't like the "clutter" of additional cable, then don't use it.
That doesn't solve the problem for those who would like to use additional inputs without clutter. Your line of thinking imposes an unnatural division. People who like clean work areas might still need to work with multiple inputs. Why should they add additional inputs to serve the small market of non-professionals who want them and not consider anyone else? My solution gives whiny "more inputs" fools what they want without breaking the Apple aesthetic.

If you really think about it, would Apple go for utility or clutter-free given your binary option?
Why replace a simple solution (additional port) with an overtly complicated and expensive solution
What exactly is complicated or expensive about moving the ports off the monitor itself into a box 20" away? All you're doing is extending the wire that connects the physical port to the PCB.
I really fail to see the problem here.
No suprise there.
13ms? Most screens out there nowadays have 8ms or even 5ms, and they are dirt cheap. Granted they are lcd tvs, but surely the tech is the same.
Response times are not all created equal. Most of the very cheap displays with unusual low response times are not measuring the largest values. Panels are not created equal, and as has been discussed at great lengths here, S-IPS panels are a bit slower than TN panels used in cheap monitors. Even still, they are preferable for the market Apple is selling to.
The price drop is as good as an update with Apple's displays.
Absolutely. A price change is a product update--something new has happened to the product. The buyer's guide does not specify "faster CPU!" or "more RAM" when individual specifications change. Price is really just another specification.

[k2k koos]

What percentage of mac users work Professionaly in "Print Production Graphics workers"? Maybe 1%. Apple is just asking for the other 99% to go with Dell. I got a 24" Dell for $630 and it is BEAUTIFULL!


Well, they are not "asking", Apple never publicly stated that they are there to be a budget brand, they offer the consumers, and pro's great products for very reasonable prices. If you want to buy something else, because you don't need the color accuracy of an ACD, then by all means go ahead, Apple wants to deliver the best products, so they cost more, and the pro's are served well by it.
It is even more indicated by their line up:
Mac Mini, BYODKM (so attach anything you'd like)
iMac , the all in one machine for consumers , prosumers, and pro's
Mac Pro, plus ACD, for the Pro's and those of us who want only the best from them

I think :apple: got it pretty well covered.

[Veracon]

Wow! Price drops in Danish store:

20": 1800 DKK ≈ US$320
23": 4000 DKK ≈ US$715
30": 7000 DKK ≈ US$1250


:eek: a 23" is now about the same price as the 20" before the discounts.

[Bosunsfate]

:D I noticed the display drop at the Apple Store before it made forums, which actually surprised me a bit, given all the "new display" talk that's been bantering about lately. Obviously, it's a good move to reduce inventory before the lineup is refreshed. Combine this with the fact that the external iSight camera inexplicably vanished from store shelves late last year (and is now commanding obscene prices on eBay) and it would appear that a screen shakeup is definately in order. It strikes me as curious, however, that Apple would have waited so long to add the iSight feature to it's cinema displays when the technology has been available to them for so long. I'd suggest that perhaps Cupertino has something more dramatic up it's sleeve. I'll point to the MacRumors article on the "Integrated Sensing Display" patent, which created a small splash last January, but then went quiet among the multi-touch and iPhone rumours. I'm going to extrapolate that if the the next gen displays don't "WOW", then it's only a matter of time before Integrated Sensing technology becomes the next big thing. In point of fact, if Apple & Co. had their druthers, I'm sure they'd choose to reveal a display that actually sees you, rather than one with a black dot strapped to it's face. (That is so last fall.) After all, what could be more Jobs-esque than revealing the world's first "seeing" display years before the technology goes mainstream. That would also force Dell to create a cheap knockoff version, and Microsoft to relase Windows Vista Multi-Interactive RealTime Media Chat Center Editon, that would cost an additional $500 and still need 80 different plug-ins to work correctly.

Good insight.

Apple has certainly waited a long time to update their displays. If they were going to just put the camera in the display a la iMacs, then they would have already done that.

Something better is certainly coming and if it saw me first I'd love it!
:D

[CJD2112]

What percentage of mac users work Professionaly in "Print Production Graphics workers"? Maybe 1%. Apple is just asking for the other 99% to go with Dell. I got a 24" Dell for $630 and it is BEAUTIFULL!

I do. As do most of my friends in graphic design and photography. In fact, a few of my friends who work in graphics can't technically afford ACD's but dish out the extra money for the exact reasons listed. Dell is not near the quality for professional work as Apple Cinema Display's have been for years. Those in the know, dish out the extra dough, and there is quite a large design population who utilize Apple Display's and products.

[CJD2112]

Wow! Price drops in Danish store:

20": 1800 DKK ? US$320
23": 4000 DKK ? US$715
30": 7000 DKK ? US$1250


:eek: a 23" is now about the same price as the 20" before the discounts.

Say what?! A 30" is roughly $1250??? Do education discounts apply? How can I order it and have it delivered to NYC? lol ... no, seriously... :eek:

[CJD2112]

:D

Good insight.

Apple has certainly waited a long time to update their displays. If they were going to just put the camera in the display a la iMacs, then they would have already done that.

Something better is certainly coming and if it saw me first I'd love it!
:D

I don't know, as interesting as that sounds the idea of my computer "seeing" me makes me a bit uncomfortable. I mean, privacy, hello (j/k) lol. :p

[morse]

UK monitors are no longer £130 as posted in the update. They're like £599 now.

[CJD2112]

I still wonder why we Brits have to pay these prices?

UK Apple Store - Two 3.0GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon = &#163;2659 or $5,247

OR

US Apple Store - Two 3.0GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon = $3997

1 x cinema display (23") = $899

1 x 80GB iPod video $349

Total $5245

leaving me with $2 for the bus home.


Well, the first problem is comparing dollars to pounds. The average UK resident has a slightly higher annual salary than the states, and comparing dollars to pounds directly (or even indirectly) is faulty. Of course if you came to the states and made a purchase at the Apple Store in SoHo (NYC) for example, you'd be paying roughly &#163;2028 ($3997 for a Dual Quad Core Mac Pro). Sadly, taxes and such increase that for purchases in the UK. Not dissimilar to purchasing a Mercedes Benz in the US versus Germany; import taxes, tariffs, etc. increase the costs dramatically (and import taxes are due to the country of residence policies, i.e. the U.K. in this instance). In short, have someone buy you a Mac Pro in the US and just ship it to the UK, even with shipping you're still saving a huge chunk of change (and would that work, or do you have to prove residency in the US AND the UK to explain the "move" and shipping?). :confused:

...and besides, as an American who visits London regularly, I'd take paying a bit more for Apple products over dishing out thousands of US dollars for a few nights at a freakin' Marriot any day (&#163;379 a night at the Marriot equals about $746 USD, for a room that would cost roughly $199 USD in the states, the US dollar is worth NOTHING now - thanks to Bushie and his croonies).

[aswitcher]

If these are the new screens - then a a new external iSight is coming.

Else Apple are clearing stock of LCDs.

Or they are introduing a NEW screen with a camera - maybe a tough sensitive one, much smaller...

[kbmb]

Just picked up the 23" Cinema display today....it's beautiful. The whole design is great and picture is wonderful.

It came down to the Apple or the Dell. I went through 4 other monitors....let me tell you, you pay for what you get nowadays. If it's cheap....it's cheap, not just in price.

Yeah the Apple is still a little too pricey, but at least I know I'm getting great quality, in both the design and panel. I wasn't willing to play the Dell Panel Lottery right now. Just don't want to take the chance on something that has to be shipped. I can pick up the Apple locally.

The other thing that Apple is doing right is getting into other sales channels such as Best Buy. Even though Best Buy hasn't yet lowered their display prices (I'm hoping they do within 14 days)....I was able to get the display cheaper because of saved Best Buy gifts cards! Free money! When BB lowers the price, I'll just go in and get it matched....if not...oh well, I still saved enough to make it comparable to the Dell.

-Kevin

[matticus008]

Of course if you came to the states and made a purchase at the Apple Store in SoHo (NYC) for example, you'd be paying roughly &#163;2028 ($3997 for a Dual Quad Core Mac Pro). Sadly, taxes and such increase that for purchases in the UK.
As in the states. If you bought a Mac Pro at the SoHo Apple store, you'd walk out having paid $4331.75 (~&#163;2198). Duties and taxes, along with other realities of international business add to that price in the UK.
In short, have someone buy you a Mac Pro in the US and just ship it to the UK, even with shipping you're still saving a huge chunk of change
You'd have to pay duty on the import, not to mention the extreme cost of paying to ship something that heavy and bulky from the US to the UK. I doubt you'd come out on top in the end.
...dishing out thousands of US dollars for a few nights at a freakin' Marriot any day (&#163;379 a night at the Marriot equals about $746 USD, for a room that would cost roughly $199 USD
$199 where? Certainly not in a major metropolitan city like New York, Los Angeles, or indeed, London (and again, US prices are before tax, which is charged on hotel rooms) and particularly for the more upscale hotels like the Marriott Marquis in NYC, which starts at $500US per night. Real estate in London is astronomical, and hotel prices follow. The UK's higher tax rates and other business operating costs also have to be factored in. EDIT: There are only five Marriotts in London which charge more than &#163;250 per night after looking at their site, and all of those have rooms below that threshold.

The pound is also about 20&#37; stronger than when the purchasing power matched the conversion (when &#163;1 was worth about $1.60), so all conversions to dollars should add roughly 20% to account for the weakness of the dollar. Life is just generally more expensive in the UK, even compared to Europe, let alone the US.

[Jarcrew]

By the time the 32-core Mac Pro is out it'll probably be cheaper to fly to New York and buy it in person.

[CJD2112]

As in the states. If you bought a Mac Pro at the SoHo Apple store, you'd walk out having paid $4331.75 (~£2198). Duties and taxes, along with other realities of international business add to that price in the UK.

You'd have to pay duty on the import, not to mention the extreme cost of paying to ship something that heavy and bulky from the US to the UK. I doubt you'd come out on top in the end.

$199 where? Certainly not in a major metropolitan city like New York, Los Angeles, or indeed, London (and again, US prices are before tax, which is charged on hotel rooms) and particularly for the more upscale hotels like the Marriott Marquis in NYC, which starts at $500US per night. Real estate in London is astronomical, and hotel prices follow. The UK's higher tax rates and other business operating costs also have to be factored in. EDIT: There are only five Marriotts in London which charge more than £250 per night after looking at their site, and all of those have rooms below that threshold.

The pound is also about 20% stronger than when the purchasing power matched the conversion (when £1 was worth about $1.60), so all conversions to dollars should add roughly 20% to account for the weakness of the dollar. Life is just generally more expensive in the UK, even compared to Europe, let alone the US.

Easy there, easy.

1. The Boston Marriot Copley PLace (which, having been a Boston resident years ago is very nice) is roughly $179-279 USD for a standard kind size room, still much cheaper than $700+ USD for the London room. Interesting that you picked the most expensive Marriot property in the states to make a point, where as I picked a relatively cheap property in London when compared to the Ritz-Carlton or Grosvenor House properties (where I normally stay). Still, $500 USD is still cheaper than $700+USD.

2. Having lived in London, when I shipped my goods from Boston to the UK I did not have to pay tariffs on property I already owned. Moving papers and such made that possible. If someone you know personally BUYS a Mac Pro in the U.S. and the ships it to someone in the UK tariffs are NOT required.

My point was in reference to the OP's comment that 2600-something pounds for a Mac Pro was much more expensive when converted to USD's than if they were to buy it in the US. I simply stated not true.

[matticus008]

1. The Boston Marriot Copley PLace (which, having been a Boston resident years ago is very nice) is roughly $179-279 USD for a standard kind size room, still much cheaper than $700+ USD for the London room.
Boston is nowhere near London in terms of property baselines, and Copley Place is $259-319 per night according to the horse's mouth.
Interesting that you picked the most expensive Marriot property in the states to make a point, where as I picked a relatively cheap property in London
No, you didn't. There are 2 pages of Marriott properties in London that do no exceed &#163;220. There are only five locations that exceed &#163;250, and all five of those start below that level. Perhaps you missed that.
Still, $500 USD is still cheaper than $700+USD.
Not after factoring in the weakness of the dollar, VAT, and UK-specific hospitality industry taxes.
2. Having lived in London, when I shipped my goods from Boston to the UK I did not have to pay tariffs on property I already owned.
That's because you were moving to the UK. That is not even close to the same situation. If you personally travel to the US and buy one, you owe duties on it when returning to the UK. It's no different if you have someone else buy it and ship it to you.
If someone you know personally BUYS a Mac Pro in the U.S. and the ships it to someone in the UK tariffs are NOT required.
Of course they are! You cannot import something into a new country without paying duties on it. First, it's not part of a household relocation, second, it's a transfer to a third party, and third, it's a brand-new, sealed retail package and not a box of family photos.
My point was in reference to the OP's comment that 2600-something pounds for a Mac Pro was much more expensive when converted to USD's than if they were to buy it in the US. I simply stated not true.
And I agreed with you.

The only problem is that you're underreporting the price for US hotels (and not including tax) and far exaggerating the price of London hotels (by over a hundred pounds) to make some unknown point.

[CJD2112]

The only problem is that you're underreporting the price for US hotels (and not including tax) and far exaggerating the price of London hotels (by over a hundred pounds) to make some unknown point.

Oh, get a life. My comment wasn't even directed towards you in the first place, so why you are taking the time in attacking someone's comment in a blog about Mac Cinema Display's is beyond me, other than you have some inherit need to proclaim your high intellect. As they say, this is an A and B conversation, so C your way out... :rolleyes:

[DrGonzo2121]

anyone else hoping for apple to use OLED for their next displays?

It would fit nicely with apple's minimalist style (27" = 11mm thick right now)

there have been grumblings that these displays will be significantly thinner...

[YoYoMa]

I'd really like to get an Apple display but these models are just so old and overpriced. The fact that the Apple 30" dropped by $200 still doesn't change the fact that you can get the new Dell High Color 30" on eBay for $1250 with no tax. I'm not sure who here would say that the over 2 year old Apple monitor is a better display than that one, regardless of the fact that it can be had for a huge amount less. If there is no new Apple display in June that outperforms the new Dell and HP, I'll have no choice but to go with the Dell. Honestly, who wouldn't? The only reason I want the Apple at this point is looks.

[princealfie]

I'd really like to get an Apple display but these models are just so old and overpriced. The fact that the Apple 30" dropped by $200 still doesn't change the fact that you can get the new Dell High Color 30" on eBay for $1250 with no tax. I'm not sure who here would say that the over 2 year old Apple monitor is a better display than that one, regardless of the fact that it can be had for a huge amount less. If there is no new Apple display in June that outperforms the new Dell and HP, I'll have no choice but to go with the Dell. Honestly, who wouldn't? The only reason I want the Apple at this point is looks.

So you don't care about color accuracy?

[princealfie]

I do. As do most of my friends in graphic design and photography. In fact, a few of my friends who work in graphics can't technically afford ACD's but dish out the extra money for the exact reasons listed. Dell is not near the quality for professional work as Apple Cinema Display's have been for years. Those in the know, dish out the extra dough, and there is quite a large design population who utilize Apple Display's and products.

Yeah if you're a serious photographer, Dell displays suck for that reason. Dells are good only for movie watching and playing video games.

[Teddy's]

Exactly right.
My 2 crystal displays still look amazing....4 years down the road.

Obviously there a many people on this forum who see only money(cheap) as the motivator.

What amazes me is that Apple have always been about quality and longevity.....well at least tried to be;)
Why do these people now want cheap:confused:
To all of you budget boys.....go buy yer Dell and stop bitching about those of us who are more than happy to pay a bit more for much more.

I for one have no wish to see Apple produce run of the mill budget priced consumer orientated products.
What they do is produce top quality pro and consumer gear that is way ahead of the other companies out there in terms of design, quality and value for money.
These monitors, especially at the new prices, are no different.

According to you:
Then they should stop making mac minis and macbooks.

Btw, your "I for one" is laughable. I guess you screamed when that rumour of the 50cent mac. Yes true, quality matters. There are many things that they can learn from iPods. It seems to have worked for the mac mini.

[YoYoMa]

The new Dell has better color than the 2 year old Apple, plain and simple. It might need some calibration to make it more accurate, but it's still a better display bar none. To suggest otherwise is simple misdirection. The Apple displays are far too overpriced for the yesterdays tech that they are. Whoever pays the $1799 plus tax for one when they can get the Dell for 1250 with no tax either really wants a matching monitor, or does not understand that the Apple is too old to command that price. The old Apple does not offer better color than the new Dell, (in fact it offers worse color) yet Apple still charges more for it. In fact, I might even go so far as to say that if the Dell were a sexier looking monitor than the Apple, no one here would consider it for a second over the Dell.

[shecky]

The new Dell has better color than the 2 year old Apple, plain and simple.

The old Apple does not offer better color than the new Dell.

prove it.

[macslug]

Any price drop is great, unfortunately for me two weeks back I bought a 20".
Maybe I need Two.
:)

[YoYoMa]

Are you serious? Have you even checked out the specs of the new Dell and compared them? Are you aware of the larger color gamut that it has? Do you know anything more than what you learned from drinking the Apple kool-aid? The Apple monitor came out 2 YEARS ago. Beleive it or not, there have been advances in LCD technology since then.