Medium Format 120 film - Users?

[Sdashiki]

Who uses, has, or had, a medium format film camera?

Im thinking of getting one, just to have another tool in my kit.

Of course I know of Holga's, which seems like a nice choice. But possibly too artsy, in terms of not being able to control anything really.

Now I dont want to spend a crap-ton of money either, this isnt for professional use, just for my own.

What should one look for? What do you like about yours?

[pdpfilms]

I've got a Mamiya 645 that I've been shooting with for a little while.

It's a pretty good camera, and I got it for relatively cheap from ebay. It's sturdy and reliable, and pretty portable for a medium-format camera. The biggest problem area for you is going to be lenses- expect to pay about 2x for the equivalent ranged 35mm lens. Do you develop your own film?

[aricher]

I have a Hasselblad 503-CX with incomparable Zeiss lenses. I absolutely love this gear and nothing can touch the lenses. Sadly I haven't been using it as much since I went digital and I haven't had the need to invest in a digital scanning back.

I've been slowly scanning a 20 year backlog of 35 mm & 2 1/4 slides/negs with a Nikon Coolscan 9000ED. It's nice having all my old stuff in digital format.

[shecky]

i have a bunch of Holgas, a Seagul and an old Yashika 635 (which i rarely use.)

i think that the seagul, despite what many will say about them, takes great images (i have the highend TLR model - i think its the 109?) The holgas are a bit more fun in that i tend to abuse them and take images i find difficult to take with the seagul (namely extreme multiple exposure, as in dozens of exposures on a frame). if you want a little higher end, you can look at the Kievs.

[Father Jack]

Unfortunately I think film has had it's day. :(

Most pro's are using digital backs on medium format and also large format 5" x 4" and 10" x 8"

Look at the price of darkroom equipment ..... you can hardly give it away.

[shecky]

Unfortunately I think film has had it's day. :(

that is only true of commercial photography; film is still widely used for fine art photography.

[Sdashiki]

Most pro's are using digital backs on medium format and also large format 5" x 4" and 10" x 8"

Look at the price of darkroom equipment ..... you can hardly give it away.

Black and White equipment, yes its going "for cheap" but I think $200+ for a decent enlarger without a lens is not cheap. maybe some do.

as for color home darkroom, thats another story, and the costs are still similar as they used to be only the tech is slightly more automated and easier to control. but color at home, is a rarity AFAIK.

Anyway.

A digital back is/was/will be for some time $$$$$$$$ and I do mean $$$.

How can you say "Film has had its day" and then your only solution is digital backs. All of which cost $10,000 and up.

Ill keep my AE-1 thanks.

I was looking for medium format, NOT a digital back.

[jlcharles]

Film isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

I have a Hassy 500CM and a holga. There's nothing like looking at a 2 1/4" slide on a lightbox. Used medium format prices are dropping through the floor. Hell, you can get a Mamiya rb-67 pro-s kit from keh for around $200 in bargain. that's the body, waistlevel finder, 90mm lens, and 120 back. Thats frickin amazing.

Throw in the stuff to develop b&w film and you're looking at maybe $250-275 tops. or, if you prefer color, find a lab that will do or send out 120 slide film.

[-hh]

I've got a Mamiya 645 that I've been shooting with for a little while.

It's a pretty good camera, and I got it for relatively cheap from ebay. It's sturdy and reliable, and pretty portable for a medium-format camera.

I rented a 645 for a couple of trips "more than a few" years ago and enjoyed the compactness, general ease-of use and of course, the actual film output, although I never really ended up doing all that much with it. I have a couple of images that I've digitized, but it was from back in the day of 300dpi flatbeds and low dynamic ranges.

One of the things on my to-do list is to take some of my 120 slides/negatives and see how they'll digitize on my current (much better) flatbed scanner.

And I know its always dangerous to ask this....but:

How 'relatively cheap' are they getting?


:D

-hh

[ChrisA]

Who uses, has, or had, a medium format film camera?

Im thinking of getting one, just to have another tool in my kit.

I sold a Mamiya RB67 system to fund an underwater video system. If you are not backpacking the RB67 is a great value. It shots 6x7cm format which is nealy wtice the size of 4x6 or cropped 6x6. The hasselblad is more versitle and lighter weight and can be hand held. The RB is a tripod camera. Go with either of these depending on needs

But if I were to get back into film I'd want something my digital camera can't do and will not ever be able to do. I'd go with 4x5 view camera. Look into 4x5. view cameras have "movments" and can get perspectives you can't otherwise get and are versitile to shoot either studio closeups or big landscapes. Once you scan the film you can make prints up to about 5 feet wide and still have good detail and decent grain. View camera can be cheap too, or quite expensive. If you are goinf to do film you might as well do "big film".

But my current Mac is not big enough now to hadle even my scans from 6x7cm I tried it and my G4 Mac just chokes. It takes _hours_ to do anything. So make sure you computer is up to the task of processing 100 megapixel files You'll be looking at a Mac Pro and a big disk and plenty of RAM.

[ChrisA]

Film isn't going anywhere anytime soon.

I have a Hassy 500CM and a holga. There's nothing like looking at a 2 1/4" slide on a lightbox. Used medium format prices are dropping through the floor. Hell, you can get a Mamiya rb-67 pro-s kit from keh for around $200 in bargain. that's the body, waistlevel finder, 90mm lens, and 120 back. Thats frickin amazing.

Throw in the stuff to develop b&w film and you're looking at maybe $250-275 tops. or, if you prefer color, find a lab that will do or send out 120 slide film.

I sold my RB67 system just before the prices dropped, managed to get nearly $2K.
as I had some lenses and close up tubes and so on.

If you can process B&W you can process E6 transparencies. You don't need any more equipment, just different chemicals. "Frestyle" in Hollywood CA sells the chemicals. It's good to do your own E6 processing so you can see your work in less then an hour after shooting. Put the best frames in the scanner and be working in Photoshop almost as qiick as digital.

Also you can push or pull and therefor control the contrast if you do your own E6. It's not expensive and you save some money too over the lab. All you need is a simple daylight tanks and a reel.

[jlcharles]

I sold my RB67 system just before the prices dropped, managed to get nearly $2K.
as I had some lenses and close up tubes and so on.

If you can process B&W you can process E6 transparencies. You don't need any more equipment, just different chemicals. "Frestyle" in Hollywood CA sells the chemicals. It's good to do your own E6 processing so you can see your work in less then an hour after shooting. Put the best frames in the scanner and be working in Photoshop almost as qiick as digital.

Also you can push or pull and therefor control the contrast if you do your own E6. It's not expensive and you save some money too over the lab. All you need is a simple daylight tanks and a reel.

I thought E-6 needed more precise temperature control. As it is now, I just let the chems sit at room temp for a few hours before developing and guess with the wash water.

[jlcharles]

But if I were to get back into film I'd want something my digital camera can't do and will not ever be able to do. I'd go with 4x5 view camera. Look into 4x5. view cameras have "movments" and can get perspectives you can't otherwise get and are versitile to shoot either studio closeups or big landscapes. Once you scan the film you can make prints up to about 5 feet wide and still have good detail and decent grain. View camera can be cheap too, or quite expensive. If you are goinf to do film you might as well do "big film".


While I get where you're going with this, Cambo makes a dSLR attachment now that turns your 5D or such into a view camera. I'd never buy or use one as I doubt it's anything near a real 4x5 or bigger, but still, you can do the movements like on a real view camera.

http://www.calumetphoto.com/item/CB4600K11/

[Sdashiki]

I dont know if im more interested in larger negatives, or what a Holga crapbox can do "artistically"

I like 35mm and scan what I need, print what I like, and archive the rest in boxes like a good American.

If I was to go 120 I wouldnt be doing it to replace my 35mm, more as a second tool to get different effects...

So perhaps RB67 and anything Hassly is gonna be way more than Id care to spend on a hobby of my hobby.

[failsafe1]

An easy way to get into medium format photography is the old twin lens reflex cameras. I needed one to learn with so I picked one up cheap at a pawn shop. It was a Yashica and I paid less than $50 bucks for it. I learned and moved on to Bronica cause they were cheap. There are a ton of options but I would opt for the second hand twin lens reflex to start. Then you can move onto another nicer system.

[failsafe1]

Just did a quick check at KEH and a Pentax 645 body and 45 mm lens would be just over $400. If you were going to ditch your 35mm gear this could help offset the cost. I still would check on the dirt cheap system first and hold onto the other system just in case things don't work out. A quicker check on eBay showed several Yashica Mat bodies with a buy it now for $99.

[seenew]

I just got a Holga for a class I'm taking, and I am having serious trouble loading the film. :(

[devilot]

...an old Yashika 635 (which i rarely use.)I was just recently generously gifted this camera but have yet to shoot w/ it. Just wondering, does it have any built-in correction for parallax? (My school's Mamiya C-something does, but I dunno about the Yashica.)

TIA :o

[PBGPowerbook]

i just got a 645 bronica system put together for DIRT cheap, it is so satisfying and fun to use, plus really hand-holdable outdoors in daytime.

[Crawn2003]

that is only true of commercial photography; film is still widely used for fine art photography.

Lol, that's true. Except when you've had experience like the one I had. We were out on a shoot, another guy that's been there about 10 years and myself. We had everything set up, etc. etc. He goes to put the Phase One back on the 4x5 and.... ooopps.... Drops it.... 25,000 dollars down the drain in a heart beat! We looked at each other, went crap, and pulled out our back up film holders and shot film.

We commercial photographers may be going digital, but film still saves are butts sometimes!

~Crawn

[MacAnkka]

My fave 120-film camera would have to be the Moskva-5 folding camera. It shoots in 6x9 and has a 105mm f/3.5 lens. Focusing is done by a pretty nice range finder and it folds quite nicely in to a small size.

Can be had for about $40-80 from eBay. Being a Russian, Soviet Union era, camera, getting one with a good quality lens is hit and miss, though. But if you happen to get a good one, it can shoot some pretty nice quaity pictures.

[Father Jack]

that is only true of commercial photography; film is still widely used for fine art photography.
The Uni where I work has all but given up darkroom photography. I agree many fine art students still use film, but very soon they are going to need their own darkrooms as Uni's and even FE colleges are making better use of their "old" darkrooms by filling them full of computers with Photoshop installed.
Like it or not, most Graphic / Design / Photography students leaving uni and going into the work place will be using nothing but digital.

[Father Jack]

Black and White equipment, yes its going "for cheap" but I think $200+ for a decent enlarger without a lens is not cheap. maybe some do.

as for color home darkroom, thats another story, and the costs are still similar as they used to be only the tech is slightly more automated and easier to control. but color at home, is a rarity AFAIK.

Anyway.

A digital back is/was/will be for some time $$$$$$$$ and I do mean $$$.

How can you say "Film has had its day" and then your only solution is digital backs. All of which cost $10,000 and up.

Ill keep my AE-1 thanks.

I was looking for medium format, NOT a digital back.

I agree the price of medium format digital backs is mad and only pro's can afford them.

Here in the UK / Ireland the biggest chain of camera stores is Jessop's, about two years ago they stopped selling all film cameras.

Medium format cameras are being used less and less and second hand prices are falling at an alarming rate.

Even Ireland's largest film processors no longer print from anything other than digital or 35mm. If you want a medium format neg printed you either paid large amounts of money to have it hand printed by one of the shrinking number of specialist or you do it your self.

[bartelby]

Here in the UK / Ireland the biggest chain of camera stores is Jessop's, about two years ago they stopped selling all film cameras.

They still do a large range of medium format cameras.

[Father Jack]

They still do a large range of medium format cameras.
If I'm wrong, sorry. Just students informed me that Jessop no longer sell film cameras. perhaps they were referring to 35mm ?

Do they actually have medium format cameras in stock? or are they ordered up when required?

[bartelby]

If I'm wrong, sorry. Just students informed me that Jessop no longer sell film cameras. perhaps they were referring to 35mm ?

Do they actually have medium format cameras in stock? or are they ordered up when required?

Yeah they don't really carry 35mms much anymore. It depends on the store for medium format. My local store doesn't stock them but the store near my dad has a good stock of them.

[Father Jack]

Yeah they don't really carry 35mms much anymore. It depends on the store for medium format. My local store doesn't stock them but the store near my dad has a good stock of them.
Thanks for the info Bartelby. There are two Jessop stores in Belfast, I know neither stock medium format, but it's maybe useful to know they can order them up. I really must get hold of a jessop catalogue.

Thanks :)

[bartelby]

Thanks for the info Bartelby. There are two Jessop stores in Belfast, I know neither stock medium format, but it's maybe useful to know they can order them up. I really must get hold of a jessop catalogue.

Thanks :)

No problem.

My dad got an awesome deal on a Mamiya kit. To reduce the stock of 35mm cameras they had a 33% off sale on all SLR, a while back. So my dad walked in and got over £500 off as there was nothing about the sale being on 35mms only!:)

[Father Jack]

No problem.

My dad got an awesome deal on a Mamiya kit. To reduce the stock of 35mm cameras they had a 33% off sale on all SLR, a while back. So my dad walked in and got over £500 off as there was nothing about the sale being on 35mms only!:)As I mentioned in a previous post, medium format camera prices are definitely dropping. Top of the range Hassleblad's are the exception, they hold their prices remarkably well considering that there lots of second hand ones about.

In my time I have owned and used the Mamiya 645 and the very large and heavy Mamiya RB67 and the later RZ67 ....... but that was years and years ago. :cool:

[Sdashiki]

What would be a good box/folding camera? Id like the portability of those bellows type medium formats.

[rjphoto]

I've had 3 Bronica 645s over the years. Bought the first one in 1982 and used it for studio portraits and weddings for around 6-7 years. I had one lens and 1-220 back for it.

I went to work for the company I work for now and the director was a hassy man. We wanted to put a medium format camera in the budget, so we both spected out a system and my whole system came in for what he budgeted a body and lens.

The shoot out between our personel cameras was judged by our graphics department. We shot black & white and E-6. He was a much better darkroom technician than I was and made some beautiful prints. But the side by side E-6 gave me the advantage. His exposures weren't as accurate across the whole roll of film. I trusted my hand held meter and he bracketed.

They also liked that you could get 3 more shots per roll. (I know, big whoop).

Anyway, we ended up buying a 3 lens kit with 2-120 backs and a Polaroid back, AEII meter view finder and an auto winder.

The auto winder locked up. I called tech support and they said to try it on my personal camera...bad move. The first crank cracked the gears inside of the body. They agreed to fix it since the had told me to try it. On the return trip home, UPS lost the package. UPS bought me a new one...

I never opened the box and sold it and bought my first Nikon... I still had the other one at work.

That was close to 20 years ago and I still have the second one. I haven't actually used it since 2003, but it's still almost like new.

[Father Jack]

What would be a good box/folding camera? Id like the portability of those bellows type medium formats.

To the best of my memory, the only medium format cameras that have bellows are the Mamiya C330 / C220 models which are twin len reflex and the RB 67 and its successor the RZ 67 both of which are single lens reflex. I have a feeling that Rolei also made a medium format camera that had bellows focusing but I can't remember the model.

FJ

[shecky]

I was just recently generously gifted this camera but have yet to shoot w/ it. Just wondering, does it have any built-in correction for parallax? (My school's Mamiya C-something does, but I dunno about the Yashica.)

TIA :o

it has a few extra lines on the viewfinder, but thats about it. there is no mechanical correction.

Like it or not, most Graphic / Design / Photography students leaving uni and going into the work place will be using nothing but digital.

i am not talking about "the work place" and i am not talking about graphic design and journalism majors, i am talking about fine art photography in the same terms as painting or sculpture. almost all of the fine art photographers i know build their own darkrooms and almost never rely on a public space.

[Sdashiki]

i am not talking about "the work place" and i am not talking about graphic design and journalism majors, i am talking about fine art photography in the same terms as painting or sculpture. almost all of the fine art photographers i know build their own darkrooms and almost never rely on a public space.

i will never stop using film, though MAYBE in the distant future I will switch my color strictly to digital, but b/w and definitely Polaroid emulsion stuff, I will keep to the darkroom.

there is just so many cool things you can do in the darkroom that just cant ever be reproduced in Photoshop.

I point those interested to Jerry Uelsmann (http://www.uelsmann.net/)


back to 120, something cheap (i mean like almost 35mm cheap) and something "artsy" in that I wouldnt be making pro prints with these, just cool photos. as I said, anything Hassy or Rolei is gonna be way out of my price range.

Though, personally, I wouldnt ever mind an 8x10 view camera, ground glass...

[shecky]

im telling ya, look at the seagulls. a GC-107 with a 4 element lens (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=Search&A=details&Q=&sku=223492&is=USA&addedTroughType=search[/url) will do ya fine and dandy.

[Sdashiki]

Whats the chinese equivalent of that $220 beast?

$220 IS cheap, yes, but id rather spend less and get more back artistically than I do with actual quality.

[jlcharles]

To the best of my memory, the only medium format cameras that have bellows are the Mamiya C330 / C220 models which are twin len reflex and the RB 67 and its successor the RZ 67 both of which are single lens reflex. I have a feeling that Rolei also made a medium format camera that had bellows focusing but I can't remember the model.

FJ

There are folding cameras that take 120 film and usually produced negs in the 6x9 range. I don't know any off the top of my head, but bellows in medium format isn't limited to the big cameras you listed.

In fact, a quick search for 6x9 folder on ebay got me this:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ZEISS-IKON-FOLDER-NICE-CONDITION-F4-5-LENS-6X9_W0QQitemZ170098184707QQihZ007QQcategoryZ11717QQrdZ1QQssPageNameZWD2VQQcmdZViewItem


back to 120, something cheap (i mean like almost 35mm cheap) and something "artsy" in that I wouldnt be making pro prints with these, just cool photos. as I said, anything Hassy or Rolei is gonna be way out of my price range.

Can you give a real dollar figure budget? Are we talking $100, $200, more? Also, what format? 645, 6x6, 6x7, other?

[Sdashiki]

Im not so much into the actual size of the negative, just the film, id like to try using 120 film, where I live you can get it processed for $3.50.

So, im more looking for a crap box, sub $100.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150108439782
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160103193519

are more my speed.

like i said, id love to have a nice, expensive, highly awesome medium/large format camera. but not now.

[shecky]

Whats the chinese equivalent of that $220 beast?

$220 IS cheap, yes, but id rather spend less and get more back artistically than I do with actual quality.

LOL. that IS the chinese equivalent. they make a few models that are cheaper too. just goto B+H and type in "Seagull"

[Abraxsis]

Two Words ... Minolta Autocord

While people discuss Medium format prices dropping, these along with the Rollei TLR cameras are actually going up. The Minolta Auto had an AMAZING lens on it which rivaled the Rollei counterparts. I have a 1956 Autocord, had it CLA'd by an 'cord Specialist in OR, and its like brand new now. It takes amazing pictures for its age. New this camera was 99.00 in 1956, they now regularly go for 150 in poor shape, and 300-350 in excellent shape. 2.8 Planar Rolleis from the same time period in good shape sell for several thousand. People sometimes move these into the "Collectable" realm, but don't be fooled these cameras have more life in them than any digital SLR youll buy today. The things are built like a tank.

Tell you what, we'll meet up in 60 years with one of your current 2000.00 dSLRs and my Autocord ... youd probably be surprised at that time what a 120 year old camera can do.

[Sdashiki]

Well, as awesome of a film camera the Autocord is, its still more than I want to spend.

ill stick with my 35mm for doing real photography and look for a medium format thats more for fun and art than anything else.

[compuwar]

What would be a good box/folding camera? Id like the portability of those bellows type medium formats.

You can get a 4x5" field camera and put a 6x9 rollfilm back on it, I've got one, and it was reasonably good the few times I used it. I've got a Pentax 67, 2 Mamiya 645s, a Maymia C330 TLR, that covers 6x9, 6x7, 6x6 and 6x4.5. I also have 2 4x5s and a 5x7 with a 4x5 reducing back. If I shoot film again, it'll be the 5x7.

[Sdashiki]

You know what, im thinking now I need just a Polaroid back for my AE-1 (http://www.bhphotovideo.com/bnh/controller/home?O=292&A=details&Q=&sku=38558&is=REG&addedTroughType=categoryNavigation)

that would be awesome. full control over a polaroid picture? oooh id love that.

so, maybe my best bet is to find a converted ol school polaroid (with manual controls) to pack film....

[MacAnkka]

Im not so much into the actual size of the negative, just the film, id like to try using 120 film, where I live you can get it processed for $3.50.

So, im more looking for a crap box, sub $100.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150108439782
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=160103193519

are more my speed.

like i said, id love to have a nice, expensive, highly awesome medium/large format camera. but not now.
I'd try the Moskva-5 I already mentioned in this thread. It has a very well working range finder, so you don't have to guestimate the focusing, unlike with those cameras you mentioned. It also looks better, has a better shutter (up to 1/250sec) and probably a little bit faster lens (f/3.5). The build quality is quite good, too.

Here's one on ebay.
http://cgi.ebay.com/MOSKVA-5-USSR-ZEISS-IKONTA-COPY-MEDIUM-FORMAT-CAMERA-EX_W0QQitemZ160102182314QQihZ006QQcategoryZ710QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
They go for a lot cheaper usually, though. It's rather easy to get a decent one for something like $60 shipped.