PDA

View Full Version : Apple hardware design flaws


icetraxxg5
Jun 14, 2003, 10:50 PM
I was thinking about how innovative a lot of apples designs are and how functional my nice 17" iMac is; then I thought about, is there any major flaws in Apple designs?

I have found 3 design flaws in my iMac, the only ones I could find after using it for many months:

1. If the keyboard is too close the base of the iMac, the optical disc drive wont open properly.
2. The screen isn't totally level, there is no way to adjust (even very slightly) the tilt of the LCD in case its off a little bit.
3. The paint on the inside the of the base of the iMac isn't high temp. paint and may get bubbly from the heat of the processor if your computer gets a little too hot (but not overheated)

Flaws I found in my 15gb iPod (had it for 2 days so far)
1. The plastic front scratches (very little) from coming in and out of the case.
2. The stainless steel polished back gets scratched too easy.

What flaws have you found in apple products? :D

papolo
Jun 14, 2003, 11:59 PM
I used to have a iBook (one of the first models of the new iBook, the second generation seems to be stronger), I think that on the portable series the biggest flaw is its acrylic or plastic body which gets really scratched... too easily...(ironically even nails scratch it!)



but even that I loved my iBook...

Groovsonic
Jun 15, 2003, 01:21 AM
Although I know about the keyboard think on my 17in iMac, I havent noticed, since I don't keep they keyboard that close to the base. I hadn't noticed any bubbling of any paint or anything.

As far as the iPod goes, I agree, it scratches WAY to easily. I know I am not the most careful person, but it looks like I went over the thing with sandpaper or something. That said, I like it so much, I overlook its tiny flaws...

Dr. Distortion
Jun 15, 2003, 04:06 AM
My 6100's cdrom drive would bump into the keyboard if you placed it within 10 cm. from the front of the mac, but it would just go over it when you put the keyboard in its 'low' mode.

-Dr. D.

Huked on Fonick
Jun 15, 2003, 04:29 AM
The ports for the ibook are one wrong side, you cant even use an apple mouse with it if u right handed, its kinda a pain having wires run off u right becuase if u right handed you like things to me on ur right hand side, but i guess if u bulding computers for that 5 percent, you mise well build them for the small percept of people who are left handed to....to bad im not

Also, the god damn power adapters keep breaking a the end (where the wire meats the thing that plug into ur computer) i know of over 10 adapters that have done this (3 of them have been mine)

one more thing, the keys leave imprints of the screen that wont come off (not really noticeable but its there)

and of corse the good old scrach problem, but thats not really noticeable to me eather, my old 600mhz ibook scrached alot easer, even the magnesium inside has alotof been scraches and places where the paint pelled off, the 800 is no where near this bad......

thats all i can think of (with the ibook) except (not a design problem) you can only mirror the display:(....

Imac never used one...but they look like a oversized desklamp...

Powerbook(Ti), that little door on the back that covers the point is a pain, ports are kinda squeezed, its allmost impossible to get an ethernet plug outa there.......Slot loading cdrom wont play smaller cds or odd shaped ones......Paint scraches really easy, Thet get hotter than my frying pan when the stove is on high, Screen is very fragile.(New 12inchers are the best looking computers i have even seen)(17 not that bad but its kinda goffy looking i think(leght and width dont seem right), its huge and kinda awarkward

Quicksilver powermacs, No usb/firewire in front...CD drives can kinda be fininky to open...

Old Ipod-Scrach to easy, I dont like particlly like how they look(its not bad but its not great new ones are alot better, Buttons are played in weird places, (new ipod fixes this)

Emacs- There Ugly

Original Imacs- There really Ugly

Thats it

billbo15
Jun 15, 2003, 04:49 AM
keep getting electrical shocks from my PB550 when working with bare feet. The case looks completely abused and has lost lots of paint even in areas that are not in contact with hands, skin or "other abrasive" tools. The Bottom case has dents and from time to time I have difficulties gettin cd's into or out of the machine because the slot is narrowed by a dent underneath. It is very hard to remove an ethernet cable without breaking finger nails or risking to damage the mobo by "excessive wiggling". Thank God it doesnt rust.

my hopes are high for the next generation PB.

Huked on Fonick
Jun 15, 2003, 04:57 AM
Originally posted by billbo15
Thank God it doesnt rust.



That made me laugh really hard.......

Wardofsky
Jun 15, 2003, 05:07 AM
The iBook and PB lid latches are magnetic so they conly come out when it is closed.
Sometimes they just don't work.

Also, you can click the button when the lid is closed.

There can sometimes be design flaws but you generally get distracted by the positives of the computer.

The Shadow
Jun 15, 2003, 05:14 AM
My iPod doesn't bounce!:D

But seriously, isn't the biggest fault the lack of a right mouse button and scroll mechanism? (Wheel or button thingy) :confused:

Huked on Fonik is right about the mouse cable on the iBook being too short for right handers. I don't think you can call that a fault with the iBook though (if you plug in in the other side it's too short for left handers) but rather with the Pro Mouse cable being too short.

I used to think like many of you about having ports on the front of the PMac, but at the moment I'm not so sure. Couln't do any harm, but doesn't everyone use hubs anyway? I don't have that many devices and I do. ;)

acj
Jun 15, 2003, 05:48 AM
Originally posted by The Shadow
My iPod doesn't bounce!:D


I used to think like many of you about having ports on the front of the PMac, but at the moment I'm not so sure. Couln't do any harm, but doesn't everyone use hubs anyway? I don't have that many devices and I do. ;)

I hate hubs. More wires. Front ports are nice, as long as there are more in the rear. The latest shuttle XPCs have it right with 2 usb and 1 firewire up front and 4 USB and 2 firewire in the back. My XPC only has two usb in the back and I wish it had more.

mmmdreg
Jun 15, 2003, 06:03 AM
speaking of cd drives and keyboards, ALL the dells at my school of various models have that issue. They're computers where the monitor is on top of the "box" and the keyboard *has* to be flat to have it go over, otherwise the tray will hit. Maybe theyre designed for keyboards that are on a different level on those slideout desk thingies.

WinterMute
Jun 15, 2003, 06:08 AM
The 17 powerBook solved a lot of the design problems of the ports on the Ti, it balances really easily now, but sadly, when using a Kensington laptop security cable, it's almost impossible to get the PSU plug in the socket:(

The 17 has a really tough finish as well, it doesn't scratch easliy at all, plus I think it's a stunning looking piece of hardware, but it's a bu**er to get a bag for it in the UK.

iSegway
Jun 15, 2003, 06:16 AM
I don't own an Ipod... but I am wondering if anyone has tried using metal polish on the steel part? You would probably end up buffing off Mac symbol and other stuff etched on there or printed on there but otherwise it should keep it looking like new.

If you polished your Ipod once a week or so would this solve the problem? Or would the thing literally get totally scratched up again the day after you polished it?

daveg5
Jun 15, 2003, 06:44 AM
as it is i really wanted an imac g4, but i made a requirement that at least one of these be upgradable like in the original imac and the later dv models.
1.Graphics card
2. Cpu
as i believe processor speeds and type will soon change for the imac (970 and G4 with L3 cache) and much better video cards are now available (8500, 9000, Ti, 9700-9800)
If Apple will allow either one of these to be upgraded that will help sales i believe without stealing any from the soon to be much more powerful 970 powermacs
i agree with the screen tilt and the lack of a wireless keyboard and mouse.
Also i have (yikes) a microsoft intellipoint optical 5 button mouse and it has increase my productivity quite a bit , i gather apple keeps the one button design to help 3rd parties mice sales, but the time for a upgrade has passed, maybe something similar to apple's ipod, but single button is dead in osx and os9 in 2003.
The heatsink fan in the mdd towers
the buttons on the ipod (must be set to hold) i prefer the real analouge click and feel of the original

daveg5
Jun 15, 2003, 06:52 AM
Originally posted by WinterMute
The 17 powerBook solved a lot of the design problems of the ports on the Ti, it balances really easily now, but sadly, when using a Kensington laptop security cable, it's almost impossible to get the PSU plug in the socket:(

The 17 has a really tough finish as well, it doesn't scratch easliy at all, plus I think it's a stunning looking piece of hardware, but it's a bu**er to get a bag for it in the UK.
I liked the 17" too looked great in person, but i have a problem with all the exposed ports on the side, maybe someone can make a clear or aluminum cover to protect these from dust liquid and bumps. I also hear that the aluminum dents easily, maybe the dent dialer as seen on tv will help. or some type of padding inside.
also the trackpad button on the 17" is the largest single button ever. it is time for apple to slit this in two esp with OSX (no excuse with all that space) and include a scroll wheel or scroll pad, cause the reach to the arrow keys is quite fas. but then u can buy a mouse.

hvfsl
Jun 15, 2003, 07:55 AM
The main problem I have with Apple besides the lack of speed which should be solved shortly, is Apples use of paint.

I have had both a PB G3 and G4 and with both having problems of the paint easily coming off. My PC laptop may not look as good as the PB, but at least it is made out of plastic so there is no paint pealling.

cubist
Jun 15, 2003, 09:16 AM
Re hubs... We should not need USB hubs. My Cube has a two ports, plus two ports on the display. This ends up being one open port on the keyboard. I plugged an extender cable into the cube and brought it out near the keyboard.

By contrast, I am building a cheap PC for gaming (not so cheap BTW). It has 8 (eight) USB ports on the motherboard.

crazzyeddie
Jun 15, 2003, 09:51 AM
Originally posted by Huked on Fonick
Also, the god damn power adapters keep breaking a the end (where the wire meats the thing that plug into ur computer) i know of over 10 adapters that have done this (3 of them have been mine)

one more thing, the keys leave imprints of the screen that wont come off (not really noticeable but its there)


Power Adaptors break off??? What?! Ever tried a third-party adaptor? I would think it would be much more your fault than Apples, since this would take quite a hit to actually break the metal off.

Key imprints can be solved by buying one of these: http://eshop.macsales.com/Catalog_Page.cfm?Parent=542&Title=PowerBook%20Accessories&Template=1/Catalog_Page.cfm?Parent=542&Title=PowerBook%20Accessories&Template=1

(products for powerbooks and iBooks there)

irmongoose
Jun 15, 2003, 10:12 AM
The Apple Pro Mouse is just too weak at the point where the wire and the actual mouse meet. At my school we have at least 2 or 3 mice breaking every month because the wire just comes loose. I understand that it's because of daily K-12 use, but a $60 mouse should be able to endure that.




irmongoose

5300cs
Jun 15, 2003, 10:14 AM
I have a 550 TiBook and I agree. The paint is coming off the right front part and makes it look awful. The heat coming off of it is moronic; I keep the heat off in winter and have to keep the AC on in summer. I can't even touch the metal without burning my fingers. Once the fan comes on it starts waking the neighbors (with nothing but the Finder and screen effects running :rolleyes: )Also all the ports in the back have paint chipped away from them, and it has lots of scratches and a few dents. I only bought it last year in August.
To me, the fact that paint can chip off a machine to this point is absolutely inexcusable ESPECIALLY for the price one has to pay. Apple must test for this type of thing BEFORE releasing them.
Pulling out an ethernet cable is a real pain in the rear, as is putting in an Airport card (lots of cut, bloody fingers from trying to unplug the antenna cable :mad: )
The iBook's case scratches WAY too easily. My 500Mhz iBook looks like I slid down a gravel hill on it. I've used my 14" for a total of maybe 4-5 hours and it's already scratched.
The 5gig iPod (scroll wheel) doesn't come with a FireWire cover- that's insulting. How much does that part cost? 2cents?? Give me a break, stop being cheap bastards and put a cover on it :mad:

Despite all this bi*ching, these are the best machines I've ever owned and I'd never go back to windows- not even if you paid me.

Chomolungma
Jun 15, 2003, 10:48 AM
Originally posted by icetraxxg5


2. The screen isn't totally level, there is no way to adjust (even very slightly) the tilt of the LCD in case its off a little bit.


I know what you mean:mad:

For this reason alone, I'll probably go with a low end PowerMac and the 20' flat panel. Although, the current Apple LCD design is not adjustable. What a dilema!!!!

Surely, there is a way to fix this problem!?:(

MacFan25
Jun 15, 2003, 12:03 PM
I wish that on the iPods the chrome wouldn't scratch as easily as it does. It also gets fingerprints really easily. If you just pick it up, then fingerprints get on the iPod.

But, I love my iPod. :D

Sun Baked
Jun 15, 2003, 12:09 PM
You have to pay the price for style...

A satin finish on the exterior of the iPod would be more durable, and not show as much wear.

But if you're going to go with a more durable finish why not switch to more wear resistant and less expensive opaque plastics. ie, ugly...

A lot of these thing would probably be caught in focus group or by sending them to consumer report style torture tests. But that would lead to leaks and comprimises in Steve Job's vision.

jimthorn
Jun 15, 2003, 01:05 PM
Originally posted by Sun Baked
A satin finish on the exterior of the iPod would be more durable, and not show as much wear.

But if you're going to go with a more durable finish why not switch to more wear resistant and less expensive opaque plastics. ie, ugly...

Actually, real brushed stainless steel would look good and not look so worn so quickly. Looking at the new PowerBooks, I don't know why they didn't go this route.

Huked on Fonick
Jun 15, 2003, 03:11 PM
Originally posted by crazzyeddie
Power Adaptors break off??? What?! Ever tried a third-party adaptor? I would think it would be much more your fault than Apples, since this would take quite a hit to actually break the metal off.

Key imprints can be solved by buying one of these: http://eshop.macsales.com/Catalog_Page.cfm?Parent=542&Title=PowerBook%20Accessories&Template=1/Catalog_Page.cfm?Parent=542&Title=PowerBook%20Accessories&Template=1

(products for powerbooks and iBooks there)

The end, the end that goes into the computer, the wire frays where it goes into that weird little plug thing, the news are stronger but the old ones break really easy, i know lots and lots of them that have broke, 3 mine 1 my friends 4 the schools......Hmmmm so no its not me, and the applecare told me that was a common problem

WinterMute
Jun 15, 2003, 05:42 PM
Originally posted by jimthorn
Actually, real brushed stainless steel would look good and not look so worn so quickly. Looking at the new PowerBooks, I don't know why they didn't go this route.

Steel is too heavy for the strength you need, hence titamium or aluminium strong and light.

The aluminium PowerBook finish is much more durable than the TiBooks, and it cleans easier.

job
Jun 15, 2003, 06:02 PM
The slot-loading DVD drive on the older iMacs is extremely temperamental. It has difficulties reading even basic CDs. The only thing it does well is playing DVDs. Installing files and reading from the drive all take too long and are often plagued with the CD spinning up, spinning down [repeat]...to little or no effect.

losfp
Jun 15, 2003, 06:10 PM
Originally posted by Huked on Fonick
The ports for the ibook are one wrong side, you cant even use an apple mouse with it if u right handed, its kinda a pain having wires run off u right becuase if u right handed you like things to me on ur right hand side, but i guess if u bulding computers for that 5 percent, you mise well build them for the small percept of people who are left handed to....to bad im not


I'll have to disagree with this one. IMHO the left hand ports are MADE for right handers. Especially in close quarters, having the ports on the right side is annoying because the USB plug sticks out and gets in the way. However if you have a mouse with a short cord then yes, that wouldn't work as well. having the ports on the left keeps them out of my way.

Sun Baked
Jun 15, 2003, 06:17 PM
Originally posted by losfp
I'll have to disagree with this one. IMHO the left hand ports are MADE for right handers. Especially in close quarters, having the ports on the right side is annoying because the USB plug sticks out and gets in the way. However if you have a mouse with a short cord then yes, that wouldn't work as well. having the ports on the left keeps them out of my way. Then there are Bluetooth wireless rodents, no cord. :eek:

Xapplimatic
Jun 15, 2003, 06:53 PM
While I love my new 12" PB G4, the number lock key light isn't visible in most daylight or bright indoor lighting conditions.. They need to revise that function key to let more light through (QUIT PAINTING THE KEYS APPLE!)

Other than that, it's in desperate need of a user-control panel which can set time limits so that the user has to put the laptop down to get onto the rest of their daily schedule else it should deliver a swift shock to prevent procrastilagging.

pinks
Jun 15, 2003, 07:26 PM
Originally posted by Huked on Fonick
The end, the end that goes into the computer, the wire frays where it goes into that weird little plug thing, the news are stronger but the old ones break really easy, i know lots and lots of them that have broke, 3 mine 1 my friends 4 the schools......Hmmmm so no its not me, and the applecare told me that was a common problem

Interesting. Last year, the power cord of my PowerBook broke just at the point you mentioned. (This is the very stylish circular one with the wrap-around storage facility). I contacted Apple to get a replacement and told them that I thought the adapter broke because of an inherent flaw in the design (too much pressure is placed on the joint between cable and plastic plug, although this has been, in part, rectified in updated models with a small plastic extension that secures the wire). They said that no other complaints had been logged - no wonder, as the procedure for logging a component flaw appears to be needlessly lengthy and complicated. I had to pay the full cost of a replacement and had to hand back the old one which I had butchered and re-soldered (- and got working fine!).

Has anyone else tried to report intrinsic flaws in an Apple product and come across a brick wall of unwillingness to listen?

Sun Baked
Jun 15, 2003, 07:30 PM
The proper wording, the cord is frayed and I'm afraid my kid will shock themselves if you don't send me a new one.

You won't send me one, thanks this telephone call should serve as notice that the company has been warned of your unwillingness to address a serious potential problem. :p

icetraxxg5
Jun 15, 2003, 07:52 PM
Originally posted by pinks
Interesting. Last year, the power cord of my PowerBook broke just at the point you mentioned. (This is the very stylish circular one with the wrap-around storage facility). I contacted Apple to get a replacement and told them that I thought the adapter broke because of an inherent flaw in the design (too much pressure is placed on the joint between cable and plastic plug, although this has been, in part, rectified in updated models with a small plastic extension that secures the wire). They said that no other complaints had been logged - no wonder, as the procedure for logging a component flaw appears to be needlessly lengthy and complicated. I had to pay the full cost of a replacement and had to hand back the old one which I had butchered and re-soldered (- and got working fine!).

Has anyone else tried to report intrinsic flaws in an Apple product and come across a brick wall of unwillingness to listen?


Just as sunbaked said, you need the proper wording.

This exact same thing happened to me; I yelled at the guy at Applecare that wouldn't send a new power adapter to me and asked to speak to his manager/administrator. 3 days later a nice new (free) power adapter was on my doorstep. ;)

Sun Baked
Jun 15, 2003, 08:11 PM
I used that type of wording to get the car insurance to repair some stuff I was "worried about" but the insurance company said was fine.

Brake line got damaged in the accident, tire showed wear and paint problems cropped up.

Thanking the insurance company for accepting the responsibility for the condition of the repaired vehicle led to $8,000 in addition repairs (new tire, shocks, brake repairs, frame repair, paint, etc.) just think it went in for a leaking brake line and shiny spot for spring rubbing on the line.

They finally paid me to sell the vehicle, since I was soo happy to keep going back and using the lifetime warranty. ;)

---

Oh thank you, thank you, thank you -- I was afraid it would be my responsibility for using this dangerous product. If "you" way it's safe, then you're accepting the bulk of the responsibility for any injuries from this point on. You are after all the "expert."

Huked on Fonick
Jun 16, 2003, 02:14 PM
Well i just told them where it broke and it wasent my fault it was bad design and they send me a new one, guess i am hard on them cuz i have had so many break at the same spot, and i know other peopel who have had them break there, the new 3 prong ones they have now are alot more durable.................but they wont give me one till they run out of the 2 prong..........o well....none of that fancy language........also batteries, have had 2 of those quit......and i had one power adapter just quit, there probably was a surge, drop in power which happens alot and it friend the bridge reflector, i duno what itwas but they replayced that one to......i organilly had ServiceNet repair agreemet, they dont computer power adapters or battiers, because they are "non essensal iteams" or something like that, well i quickly swiched back to applecare.......none of that, how the **** can i run my computer without a powercord of battery...........yea there pretty essensal.....

Royal Pineapple
Jun 16, 2003, 02:23 PM
well lets see, the imac smoke iMacDV SE 500 mhz: slot load drive kinda finicky, one FW port dosnt work, but that could just be a faulty port, i dont use it too often so i dont know the problems
PBook pismo G3 500mhz: the apple logo is upside down when the lid is open, and light shines through the logo and the lcd if the screen is off and the lid is open. the drive releices to releice whatever drive you have in the media bays are too flimsy. no command key on right side of spacebar thats all i notice.
iBook twin usb Gen 1 500 mhz: scratches too easally ports make it feel that i am putting too much pressure on the USB plugs when i have the comp in my lap, i wish the powercord was on the left with the rest of the ports but i can see that this couldent be done. the magnetic latch broke on mine, it broke on the bottom where it latches, the peice of metal that holds the hook just broke in two and apple wont fix it (i havent really talked to them about it in full detal as that i dont have an afternoon to throw away by sitting on hold forever)little feet on bottom fall off and apple likes to charge you, but if you mention it with another problem they will toss the feet in free. the paint on the inside of the acrilic on the battery chips. my modem is busted too, but i dont use it.
iPod 10 gig G2: scratches on back, i wish it was brushed aluminum, edges too square, fixed on G3, buttons can get pushed if its in yer pocket the wrong way, fixed in G3.
DOSNT BOUNCE
and dosnt play well with others (mind of its own)

mactastic
Jun 16, 2003, 03:56 PM
With my 1Ghz TiBook, I've noticed that the DVI port will not allow a cable to actually screw in. Small but weird problem. The aforementioned keyboard marks in the screen. Optical drive is a little noisy. Power adapter plug (into computer) is too slick, needs some texture to allow a better grip. I think thats all... I might think of another item or two, but they are all such small complaints about an otherwise gorgeous machine.

Royal Pineapple
Jun 16, 2003, 05:25 PM
I just notised a crack in my case, right in the magnesium, it is right under the left bottom corner of the computer and if you look on the edge it is right between the battery and the optical drive door

Eniregnat
Jun 16, 2003, 11:45 PM
I donít know if an engineer would call all of those problems design flaws, as they arenít problems for everybody.

Apple did have some systemic design flaws in some of their protables.
The Apple Dou had problems with the screes cracking. (Alegedely due to pressure changes)
The RevA and B iBooks had handle problems, and still do. The plastic that was chosen to encase the mettle handle was a poor choice.
Recently some of the portables had problems with the logic boards.

I really canít tell you how many flaws I have found in WinTel machines.

For me, I have found Appleís products to be more robust than competition.