Possibly moving to Canada!!!

[halfprep455]

I am seriously thinking about moving to Canada in 2008. Im not going to go into my rants as to why I want to move there you can see that in the Political fourm. I was wondering how hard it is for a US citizen to obtain Canadian citizenship. If I do move to Canada, I am thinking about Vancouver or Toronto as the most likely canidates. I visit Canada frequiently and I personally love the country. Any suggestions are welcomed.

[pseudobrit]

It's a bastard. Plan on years unless you've got an in-demand degree or your own business.

[halfprep455]

Damn that sux. Im just getting really tired of the US and the ultra right here. 2008 is the last hope for this country and our freedoms.

[lamina]

Get out while you can.

This will come off as Anti-American. I don't hate Americans... I just hate thier leader.

In Canada, you don't have to worry about being thrown over to Cuba and having your balls tasered, without charge. You also get free healthcare. It's a bit colder (not as cold as everyone seems to think).

Southern Ontario, BC, Halifax, Calgary are all great choices. I live in a small town 10 minutes west of Niagara Falls, ON.

[Leareth]

I live and LOVE Vancouver but the cost of living is through the roof.
be prepared to spend most of your paycheck on rent.

Getting Canadian Citizenship is a bastard.

[EricNau]

According to wikipedia's entry for Canadian nationality law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_nationality_law), A person who is a permanent resident may apply for Canadian citizenship by naturalization (grant) after three years resident in Canada.
The requirements in full are that the person:

is aged 18 years or over
is a permanent resident
has lived in Canada for a total of three years out of the four years preceding the application for citizenship
knows about Canada (a test is required as part of the application process, but only if the applicant is between 18 and 54 years of age)
knows the rights and responsibilities of Canadian citizenship

[halfprep455]

I live in aan expensive area in the US right now so Vancouver cant be too bad. lol.

But yea at least Canada dosen't torture people and arrest its own citizens with no trial. At least Canada dosen't spend a trillion dollors to invade a counrty for no reason and claim they are spreading democracy but deny their own citizens basic rights and privacy. Our last hope is for Obama, Biden, Kusinich, or even Edwards to become our next president. I am happy though that the Dems and Pelosi have taken Congress. Im just tired of all the ultra right christian nut jobs here turningg this nation into a theocracy!

[halfprep455]

According to wikipedia's entry for Canadian nationality law (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canadian_nationality_law), A person who is a permanent resident may apply for Canadian citizenship by naturalization (grant) after three years resident in Canada.
The requirements in full are that the person:

is aged 18 years or over
is a permanent resident
has lived in Canada for a total of three years out of the four years preceding the application for citizenship
knows about Canada (a test is required as part of the application process, but only if the applicant is between 18 and 54 years of age)
knows the rights and responsibilities of Canadian citizenship


I think I could do that. I might go to college in Toronto so I don't know if that would count as living there for 3 years. If I was offered a job up there, how hard would it be to establish residency there?

[CanadaRAM]

Study the regs & consult an immigration lawyer.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/work/index.html

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/index.html

We'd love to have you --- but don't expect to be able to arrive, work, and stay, unless you qualify -
Or unless you have money enough for three years+ residency without working - Or you have enough lolly that you can buy or invest in a business.

[halfprep455]

Study the regs & consult an immigration lawyer.

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/work/index.html

http://www.cic.gc.ca/english/immigrate/index.html

We'd love to have you --- but don't expect to be able to arrive, work, and stay, unless you qualify -
Or unless you have money enough for three years+ residency without working - Or you have enough lolly that you can buy or invest in a business.

I was offered a job with the company my dad works for and the job was to be based in Vancouver. However, I need to go to college and get my degree in Systems Engineering which is what I am planning on majoring in.

[dornoforpyros]

In Canada, you don't have to worry about being thrown over to Cuba and having your balls tasered, without charge. You also get free healthcare. It's a bit colder (not as cold as everyone seems to think).


While I'm thankful on a daily basis that I'm in Canada and not the US, our police aren't perfect. (http://www.cjfe.org/releases/2000/oaspepper.html)

And yes our healthcare is "free", but we also have horrible waiting times for non-emergency care. If you cut off your thumb and run to the hospital be prepared to wait 8-12 hours (I'm not exaggerating) for anyone to see you.

I honestly believe our living standards are better in Canada and I would never choose the US over it. But it's not all milk & honey.

[biturbomunkie]

i think each nation has its problems to a certain degree. but i agree that there's no monica with the current administration, only plenty of screwing.

with the administration on its way out, things will change gradually. but i think what we'll need is some young risk takers, who have nothing to lose and with visions that can set things right.

[halfprep455]

No country is perfect. However, Canada is a little bit more progressive and tolorant then the US currently is. Things were ok here under Clinton. But since current this jack*** has came to power here, things have quickly gone down the crapper. I wonder if us Americans will ever get our freedom back. There could be some hope in 2008 though.

[galstaph]

I was offered a job with the company my dad works for and the job was to be based in Vancouver. However, I need to go to college and get my degree in Systems Engineering which is what I am planning on majoring in.

Apply at the university of British Columbia then, it is a very fine school and better still you can apply to become a permanent citizen and then after you graduate you could very well qualify for citizenship:)

I'm thinking of moving to the coast one day... I live in Calgary, it is nice enough, but booming like hell without a plan....

There are also lots of smaller cities in the Lower mainland that would be good to live in while providing a slightly cheaper cost of living:) :)

Canada is great, we like immigrants:)

[halfprep455]

Canada is great, we like immigrants:)

Unlike a lot of people over here. lol.

[juanster]

While I'm thankful on a daily basis that I'm in Canada and not the US, our police aren't perfect. (http://www.cjfe.org/releases/2000/oaspepper.html)

And yes our healthcare is "free", but we also have horrible waiting times for non-emergency care. If you cut off your thumb and run to the hospital be prepared to wait 8-12 hours (I'm not exaggerating) for anyone to see you.

I honestly believe our living standards are better in Canada and I would never choose the US over it. But it's not all milk & honey.


hahaha soooo true this happened to me like a month ago,,, i waited 3 hours to get 5 stitches, which took about 15 minutes or so, and about the cops, well (IMO) they are just *******s, doe snot matter where you go (of course not all of them are, there are some really nice ones, but my guess is a good 80% o fthem are...

[mustard]

Damn that sux. Im just getting really tired of the US and the ultra right here. 2008 is the last hope for this country and our freedoms.

To each there own: but I see the ultra left, vocal celebrities, and the ACLU as the problems. That aside why was G.W. Bush elected - because the majority voted for him, and if people are supposed to learn from there "mistakes" than why was he re-elected?

Just playing devils advocate.:p

[juanster]

Unlike a lot of people over here. lol.

this is because most of us ARE immigrants, or our parents are immigrants, and we know what it feels like to come to anew country with no family, no friends and for some of us not even speaking english at first, some of us had to come here and sleep on matresses on the floor for the first couple of months or so, with no furniture at allll we understand how hard it is...:)

[halfprep455]

The last time I went to Vancouver, some dumb*** started to give me crap b/c I was American. He Kept calling me a Bush lover and nazi and so forth. I basically said I hate Bush and the majority of Americans don't like him and the war. Do you think people would really care that I am from the US?

[dornoforpyros]

The last time I went to Vancouver, some dumb*** started to give me crap b/c I was American. He Kept calling me a Bush lover and nazi and so forth. I basically said I hate Bush and the majority of Americans don't like him and the war. Do you think people would really care that I am from the US?

Well there's ***holes everywhere in the world. Generally I think Americans are well accepted in Canada as most Canadians can separate the people from their leader.

[juanster]

The last time I went to Vancouver, some dumb*** started to give me crap b/c I was American. He Kept calling me a Bush lover and nazi and so forth. I basically said I hate Bush and the majority of Americans don't like him and the war. Do you think people would really care that I am from the US?

i really don't think so, at least not where i am from. But then again, you will of course have to deal with this kind f stuff, we still have alot of very ignorant people, i am colombian, therefore there is nothing but harrasment everytime i go through and airport, or whenever i tell someone i am from colombia, everybody says jokingly "ohhhhh cocaineeeeeee.." and i know they r jokking and it did not bother me at first so much, but after a while it kind of gets old u know? but i guess it's just one of thos ethings you have to get used to and you will. I mean it's not like you are going to be telling everybody everday where u are from,and i am not saying hide it or anything you should be proud of where you are from IMO, but whta i am trying to say it's that canada is such a diverse country that you won t be asking everybody you meet where they are from because you would have to ask that to mostly everyone. Specilly if you move to a big city in the south of Canada, Toronto, Vancouver..

[juanster]

Well there's ***holes everywhere in the world. Generally I think Americans are well accepted in Canada as most Canadians can separate the people from their leader.

completely agree...

[Leareth]

The last time I went to Vancouver, some dumb*** started to give me crap b/c I was American. He Kept calling me a Bush lover and nazi and so forth. I basically said I hate Bush and the majority of Americans don't like him and the war. Do you think people would really care that I am from the US?

Sadly this is becoming a common occurence in vancouver.

Some of my classmates who are here on an exchange from the US had to cut it short due to the amount of harassment they were getting. Not from students but everyday encounters

Most people are very tolerant of various backgrounds.

[halfprep455]

The city I live near, Washington DC, and its suburbs are very diverse. There students at my High School from over 100 countries. Most Americans can trace their roots to immagrints just as most Canadians probably can. One thing I have noticed about Canada is that they do not seem nearly as polorized when it comes to issues such as race and politics. I also like the fact that they are not a superpower and do not get into every nations business. I mean what country especially in Europe hates Canada or the Canadian government? The last time I went to Europe, I when told some people I ment that i was Canadian b/c of the crap that I got when I said I was American.

[juanster]

The city I live near, Washington DC, and its suburbs are very diverse. There students at my High School from over 100 countries. Most Americans can trace their roots to immagrints just as most Canadians probably can. One thing I have noticed about Canada is that they do not seem nearly as polorized when it comes to issues such as race and politics. I also like the fact that they are not a superpower and do not get into every nations business. I mean what country especially in Europe hates Canada or the Canadian government? The last time I went to Europe, I when told some people I ment that i was Canadian b/c of the crap that I got when I said I was American.

hahah yeah, yu actually get cheaper rooms and cheaper stuff in europe when they knw you are canadian,, last time we went we tried to get a room in amsterdam and the guy askded us for some crazy amount of money so we pretty much told him he was crazy then we turned around and he saw one of my friends backpacks had a canadia flag sticker and he s like ohhhhhh you guys are canadian??? i htough you were americans, so i gave you american price, at the end we got the room for half of wht he was asking for at first

[yg17]

Walk around with a hockey stick. You'll look Canadian, and if anyone doubts you, you have something to beat them up with :D

But seriously though, moving up there is something I'd love to do as well once I'm out of college. So basically the deal is:

1. Get a visa? I guess you'd need one to live there long term
2. Get a job (will companies up there hire non-citizens?)
3. Get a place to live
4. Stay there for 3 years, apply for citizenship
5. Take tests, pass requirements and get citizenship

[halfprep455]

But seriously though, moving up there is something I'd love to do as well once I'm out of college.



I hear you man. I am giving this country one more chance to redeem itself. That last chance is the 2008 election. If someone like Obama or Kusinich or possibly Edwards gets elected and the Democrats hold their majority, there may be hope for this nation. But is someone like Guliani, Romney, or McCain wins, CANADA HERE I CAME!!!!

Theres a good saying by the rapper Immmortal Technique:"I love the place I live in, but I hate the mother**** incharge!"

I totally agree with that quote.

[biturbomunkie]

To each there own: but I see the ultra left, vocal celebrities, and the ACLU as the problems. That aside why was G.W. Bush elected - because the majority voted for him, and if people are supposed to learn from there "mistakes" than why was he re-elected?

Just playing devils advocate.:p

if "majority" means electoral college, then you are most certainly right about the 2000 election.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ed/ElectoralCollege2000-Large.png/800px-ElectoralCollege2000-Large.png

in regards to the 2004 election, many controversies remain. however, time will tell if it was a mistake to reelect bush.

[yg17]

I wouldn't neccesarily say that the president is the reason I want to move up there, because this ***** is a passing phase, albeit a really long phase, and I'm not going to leave the country and change my life just over 8 years of some dipshit running the country. My frustrations aren't with a specific political leader or party, my issues are with the country as a whole

[CanadaRAM]

Walk around with a hockey stick. You'll look Canadian, and if anyone doubts you, you have something to beat them up with :D

But seriously though, moving up there is something I'd love to do as well once I'm out of college. So basically the deal is:

1. Get a visa? I guess you'd need one to live there long term
2. Get a job (will companies up there hire non-citizens?)
Yes, but you have to have a work visa and a Social Insurance number

3. Get a place to live
4. Stay there for 3 years, apply for citizenship

...Figure out how to survive in the period between when the temporary work permit expires and the landed immigrant/permanent residency kicks in...

[yg17]

How long does a permit last? And I'm assuming it takes a minimum of 3 years since moving up there to get full citizenship, but what's the average amount of time it takes?

[ebouwman]

in regards to the 2004 election, many controversies remain. however, time will if it was a mistake to reelect bush.

i believe that time has already told us that it was a mistake to re-elect bush...
I speak of the mess that he's gotten the states into by getting involved with Iraq

[halfprep455]

if "majority" means electoral college, then you are most certainly right about the 2000 election.

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/e/ed/ElectoralCollege2000-Large.png/800px-ElectoralCollege2000-Large.png

in regards to the 2004 election, many controversies remain. however, time will if it was a mistake to reelect bush.

I wish that just 1000 more people got off their Arses in Florida back in 2000 and voted for Gore. I don't care for Al Gore that much but he is a hell of a lot better then who we have now.

[ebouwman]

How long does a permit last? And I'm assuming it takes a minimum of 3 years since moving up there to get full citizenship, but what's the average amount of time it takes?

i think that before you get your citizenship you can get a permanent resident card (it looks really cool to :D with a holographic pic of you on it)

But i'm not really sure how that all works

[CanadaRAM]

How long does a permit last? And I'm assuming it takes a minimum of 3 years since moving up there to get full citizenship, but what's the average amount of time it takes?

I'm not qualified to answer -- go to the GofC links posted earlier, consult a qualified immigration specialist.

If you are going to college, there is a limited amount of co-op work you can do, (we hire international co-ops for example) but your educational visa does not permit you to work off-campus.

[halfprep455]

i believe that time has already told us that it was a mistake to re-elect bush...
I speak of the mess that he's gotten the states into by getting involved with Iraq

Not to mention the freedoms that we may have permininty lost! Our right to privacy, expression, protest, and press are eroding away at a very alarming rate. I compare the current state of this country to that of the last days of the Roman Republic. Right before the Republic became an empire and citizens lost all of their rights. There are also too many backwards laws being passed here too! Our country scored 17th in 2000 for press freedom according to Reporters without Boarders. In 2006, the US scored 53rd!! We are behind almost all of Europe and even parts of Eastern Europe for press freedom. BTW, Canada scored like 10th.

[biturbomunkie]

i believe that time has already told us that it was a mistake to re-elect bush...
I speak of the mess that he's gotten the states into by getting involved with Iraq

i agree. however, i said "will" becuase i doubt that he'd get indicted before leaving office.

[biturbomunkie]

I wish that just 1000 more people got off their Arses in Florida back in 2000 and voted for Gore. I don't care for Al Gore that much but he is a hell of a lot better then who we have now.

somewhat agreed. but i honestly think electoral college is obsolete and should be abolished. we do have the technology for direct popular elections.

[Abstract]

If you want to live and stay in Canada, the easiest way to do that is by going to uni(versity) in Canada. You don't even need to go to UBC or U of T (Toronto) to do that. There are lots of fantastic universities, and they're not all in Toronto and Vancouver.

I'm from Toronto, and I did my undergrad at McMaster, just 1 hour away from Toronto. :) Toronto is a great city, and I'm sure you'd love it there.

[ebouwman]

But yea at least Canada dosen't torture people and arrest its own citizens with no trial.

That kind of does happen, just not very often at all, i remember hearing about some guy that CISIS (canadian CIA) arrested and wouldn't let out and couldn't put on trial because it involved things that were secrets.

While I'm thankful on a daily basis that I'm in Canada and not the US, our police aren't perfect. (http://www.cjfe.org/releases/2000/oaspepper.html)

And yes our healthcare is "free", but we also have horrible waiting times for non-emergency care. If you cut off your thumb and run to the hospital be prepared to wait 8-12 hours (I'm not exaggerating) for anyone to see you.

Last time i went to emergency for a cut i had to wait 5 hours for 3 stitches :eek: that kinda sucked, that was about 4 or 5 years ago though and i think that waiting times may have gotten worse.

in the end though i would rather have government healthcare rather than worrying about not being able to pay for healthcare/health insurance

[mustard]

i believe that time has already told us that it was a mistake to re-elect bush...
I speak of the mess that he's gotten the states into by getting involved with Iraq

If the time has passed there are measures in place to rectify the situation - via impeachment. But as a whole the country is more morally driven - which is way the Clinton impeachment process proceeded and was so publicized.

[mustard]

That kind of does happen, just not very often at all, i remember hearing about some guy that CISIS (canadian CIA) arrested and wouldn't let out and couldn't put on trial because it involved things that were secrets.



Last time i went to emergency for a cut i had to wait 5 hours for 3 stitches :eek: that kinda sucked, that was about 4 or 5 years ago though and i think that waiting times may have gotten worse.

in the end though i would rather have government healthcare rather than worrying about not being able to pay for healthcare/health insurance

But how do the income taxes in Canada relate to that of the US. I know many well off people in Canada that have traveled south to the US for better healthcare because they could afford it.

The US has always been coined the land of opportunity - in lay terms it is here if you can afford it.

[biturbomunkie]

hahah yeah, yu actually get cheaper rooms and cheaper stuff in europe when they knw you are canadian,, last time we went we tried to get a room in amsterdam and the guy askded us for some crazy amount of money so we pretty much told him he was crazy then we turned around and he saw one of my friends backpacks had a canadia flag sticker and he s like ohhhhhh you guys are canadian??? i htough you were americans, so i gave you american price, at the end we got the room for half of wht he was asking for at first

interesting. reminds me of the movie hostel.

perhaps i should get a canadian tat...

[Abstract]

in the end though i would rather have government healthcare rather than worrying about not being able to pay for healthcare/health insurance

Well, people argue that if you can afford it, you don't need to worry in the US. Besides, you pay less taxes than in Canada, Sweden, etc, so the money you saved by paying less taxes likely covers a life's worth of medical expenses anyway. Of course, once you get cancer and need to pay like $2000 for an MRI or something, that's when it gets expensive for Americans. :o But then, people argue that it's easily covered in the lower income tax that Americans pay.


My point is that despite my family's current financial status (not great, but not poor) and due to my future career, I'm still glad that the healthcare system is in place for elder people, and people who simply can't afford healthcare. I like the closeness that Canadians have with each other, and I like how we take care of our own people. No, they're not my family, and they may never pay as much tax as I will when I start working, but we're all equal members of this country, and I'm glad that whether you're rich or poor, you're going to be taken care of. :)

If I end up giving more to the government in taxes than I will ever receive back in healthcare and education costs, that's fine. I'm OK with this because I realize that if something awful were to happen to me, my country would take care of my medical bill. Some day, you may be unlucky enough to require $50,000 in medical costs, and yet you won't need to worry. On the other hand, you may never be in a major medical disasters in your lifetime, while another person racks up a $50,000 healthcare bill. You may benefit from paying higher taxes, or you may not. It's almost like car insurance --- you can't dodge bad luck.

I feel like things are good the way they are in Canada, and yes, I'm against private healthcare. :)

[annk]

I was offered a job with the company my dad works for and the job was to be based in Vancouver. However, I need to go to college and get my degree in Systems Engineering which is what I am planning on majoring in.

I have no idea how it works in Canada, but in some countries, if you work for an American company abroad, the time you spend in the new country doesn't count toward living requirements for citizenship. I'm pretty sure that's how it is here in Norway. And to get a job here in a Norwegian company, the employer has to prove to the authorities that you had qualifications that no native applicant had.

Definitely check out the links you got from CanadaRAM. Immigration is usually very complicated and hard to qualify for, and if you don't understand the rules ahead of time, you can waste years, thinking you are qualifying, when you're actually not.

hahah yeah, yu actually get cheaper rooms and cheaper stuff in europe when they knw you are canadian,, last time we went we tried to get a room in amsterdam and the guy askded us for some crazy amount of money so we pretty much told him he was crazy then we turned around and he saw one of my friends backpacks had a canadia flag sticker and he s like ohhhhhh you guys are canadian??? i htough you were americans, so i gave you american price, at the end we got the room for half of wht he was asking for at first

Well, this is perhaps exaggerated. ;) "Europe" is a big place, with vastly differing customs. And it's easy to be fooled into thinking that one person's reaction is representative for all of Europe. I've travelled in many countries over here for the past 20 years, and never had a problem with price levels because of my American citizenship.

Well, people argue that if you can afford it, you don't need to worry in the US. Besides, you pay less taxes than in Canada, Sweden, etc, so the money you saved by paying less taxes likely covers a life's worth of medical expenses anyway. Of course, once you get cancer and need to pay like $2000 for an MRI or something, that's when it gets expensive for Americans. :o But then, people argue that it's easily covered in the lower income tax that Americans pay.


My point is that despite my family's current financial status (not great, but not poor) and due to my future career, I'm still glad that the healthcare system is in place for elder people, and people who simply can't afford healthcare. I like the closeness that Canadians have with each other, and I like how we take care of our own people. No, they're not my family, and they may never pay as much tax as I will when I start working, but we're all equal members of this country, and I'm glad that whether you're rich or poor, you're going to be taken care of. :)

If I end up giving more to the government in taxes than I will ever receive back in healthcare and education costs, that's fine. I'm OK with this because I realize that if something awful were to happen to me, my country would take care of my medical bill. Some day, you may be unlucky enough to require $50,000 in medical costs, and yet you won't need to worry. On the other hand, you may never be in a major medical disasters in your lifetime, while another person racks up a $50,000 healthcare bill. You may benefit from paying higher taxes, or you may not. It's almost like car insurance --- you can't dodge bad luck.

I feel like things are good the way they are in Canada, and yes, I'm against private healthcare. :)

It's great if this really works there. The system in Norway is similar, and on paper it looks great, but in practice it fails miserably. We pay huge taxes, a lot of which goes to health care, which is "free". But the only time you are guaranteed getting taken care of immediately, is if you are injured and dying because of it then and there. Cancer patients routinely wait weeks and even months in line to start chemo. People wait for years for routine but necessary operations. Hospitals are understaffed and underfunded, and patients often have to stay in busy corridors behind cloth screens for their entire hospital stays (nurses sneak out in their lunch breaks to call the fire department from pay phones, so they will come and demand that patients be moved because of fire regulations). There are routinely articles in the paper about families who take their babies out of the country - at huge expense - for life-saving treatment they were denied in Norway. People who can afford it, get their important care by paying extra for private hospitals.

So government-funded health care is a wonderful idea, but gets very expensive for the citizen when s/he has to pay for private treatment in addition.

[Abstract]

It's great if this really works there. The system in Norway is similar, and on paper it looks great, but in practice it fails miserably.

Oh, I never said things worked perfectly in Canada. :p It works, but slowly. But again, everyone is covered, and rich people aren't given better treatment than middle-class families. They're all treated the same. I don't mind if rich people are treated better in other aspects of our society, but when it comes to healthcare, I don't want rich people to be treated great while poor people are treated as if they don't exist.


Some people think about their own finances, their family, and themselves, and they ask, "Why should I pay so much tax when I'm not even getting that much in return?" I think that's a more selfish, short-sighted way of looking at things. Others think of "the community", and so for every Canadian like myself, there is a Canadian who wants private hospitals where they get better treatment for their family by paying for it, and just don't care about those who can't afford it. Well, they care, but not enough to sacrifice a little of what they have to help people who don't have private healthcare as an option. It's not bad that they're thinking about their families first, but again, I don't think anybody should be left behind.

But believe me, not every Canadian shares my views.

So again, I think of high taxes like I think of car insurance. Sure, I have paid a lot of money towards insurance, and I have never been in an accident. I'm essentially paying for accidents and car repairs that other people get into. Why should I? On the other hand, I may end up in an accident in the future, and the $500 I paid in car insurance that year will miraculously cover the $4000 worth of damage the accident did to my car. In essence, someone else just paid to fix my car.

[ebouwman]

Oh, I never said things worked perfectly in Canada. :p It works, but slowly. But again, everyone is covered, and rich people aren't given better treatment than middle-class families. They're all treated the same. I don't mind if rich people are treated better in other aspects of our society, but when it comes to healthcare, I don't want rich people to be treated great while poor people are treated as if they don't exist.

sometimes people with more money bribe doctors to get into surgery earlier

[princealfie]

Honestly, Canada has better hockey and curling so jealousy ensues.

[princealfie]

Not to mention the freedoms that we may have permininty lost! Our right to privacy, expression, protest, and press are eroding away at a very alarming rate. I compare the current state of this country to that of the last days of the Roman Republic. Right before the Republic became an empire and citizens lost all of their rights. There are also too many backwards laws being passed here too! Our country scored 17th in 2000 for press freedom according to Reporters without Boarders. In 2006, the US scored 53rd!! We are behind almost all of Europe and even parts of Eastern Europe for press freedom. BTW, Canada scored like 10th.

Wow, props to you. What a genius.

I'm reading Gibbon as we speak right now.

[heehee]

But how do the income taxes in Canada relate to that of the US. I know many well off people in Canada that have traveled south to the US for better healthcare because they could afford it.

The US has always been coined the land of opportunity - in lay terms it is here if you can afford it.

Our taxes are outrageous here. Depending on how much you make, it can be from 25%-50%. If you make over $60,000/year, you'll get taxed 50%. :rolleyes:

That's not including the 14% we have to pay if we buy something and the property taxes.

It's nice and comfy here, but if you want to have extra cash to burn and drive a $60,000+ car, go somewhere else.

[KevAllen83]

Man, Canada is a beautiful place... and they're in to my newest sport that I found out I can actually participate in decently (skiing).

BUT, I am most certainly not a socialist and not into big government and big taxes :(

[Swarmlord]

Our taxes are outrageous here. Depending on how much you make, it can be from 25%-50%. If you make over $60,000/year, you'll get taxed 50%. :rolleyes:

That's not including the 14% we have to pay if we buy something and the property taxes.

It's nice and comfy here, but if you want to have extra cash to burn and drive a $60,000+ car, go somewhere else.

No wonder everything is "free" up there. I wish I was paying half my income in taxes for all the "free" stuff rather than just paying a premium to an insurance company.

What they need to do is bump up the taxes to around 80-90% and they provide "free" room and board too.

[annk]

That's not including the 14% we have to pay if we buy something and the property taxes.



We have a 25% tax on many purchased items and services. :(

[dylan]

Do some research on the North American Union. Canada will soon become, effectively, the same country...

There is nowhere to run, stay and fight!

[adroit]

No wonder everything is "free" up there. I wish I was paying half my income in taxes for all the "free" stuff rather than just paying a premium to an insurance company.

What they need to do is bump up the taxes to around 80-90% and they provide "free" room and board too.

At least the citizens here are free.

[leekohler]

No wonder everything is "free" up there. I wish I was paying half my income in taxes for all the "free" stuff rather than just paying a premium to an insurance company.

What they need to do is bump up the taxes to around 80-90% and they provide "free" room and board too.

Just wait til you actually need to use your health insurance and find out just how much it won't pay for! You're gonna love just how much of your income gets eaten up then. Oh- and if you get dropped by your health insurance for some reason, I can't wait to hear you scream about how expensive health care is. Half your income? No, you're going into debt.

[Abstract]

No wonder everything is "free" up there. I wish I was paying half my income in taxes for all the "free" stuff rather than just paying a premium to an insurance company.

What they need to do is bump up the taxes to around 80-90% and they provide "free" room and board too.

Ask me how much doctors cost. MRIs, surgery, PET.......I didn't know until I started my PhD. Even basic scans would cost you $1000-2000. Want a pin put in your leg? They're more than $5 a pin, which is the cost I'd estimate them at. ;)

You can stay in the US. I never have to worry. No wonder Canadians spend so little on healthcare, yet get so much in return. You spend more than anyone else, and get very little back, so obviously private healthcare is costly and doesn't work. Sorry, I guess we'd need to hear from more countries with a private healthcare system before we make a conclusion like that, but there's lots of proof that public healthcare works really well.

[Abstract]

Our taxes are outrageous here. Depending on how much you make, it can be from 25%-50%. If you make over $60,000/year, you'll get taxed 50%. :rolleyes:

That's not including the 14% we have to pay if we buy something and the property taxes.


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Income_Taxes_By_Country.svg

To calculate your income tax....
http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tax/individuals/faq/taxrates-e.html

I used an income of $80000 as an example, and I pay Federal taxes of $15404.50, and Provincial Income Tax of $6401.25 (assuming I live in Ontario). That's a total of $21805.75 that I'd pay in income tax for 2007. You can double check my figures if you want in case I made a calculation error.

I used ERNST and YOUNG (http://www.ey.com/GLOBAL/content.nsf/Canada/Tax_-_Calculators_-_2005_Personal_Tax) tax calculator from 2005 to see if the tax calculator would verify my calculation. Yes, the income tax was probably different in 2005, but the value should be in the same ballpark. According to E&Y, I would have paid $21319 in income tax in 2005. :)


Also, the 14% is in Ontario, not the rest of Canada. In pretty much every other Province, it's lower.

[halfprep455]

Private medical care isn't all that great here. I broke my arm 2 years ago and I was sent to G.W. University Hospital sience that was the closest hospital. G.W. is known to be one of the best hospitals in the world. I waited for 3 hours to get ant attention. We still had o pay $500 for the visit! Thank God we have medical insurance. We did file a complaint and did get all of our money back. There is a way where you can have private medical and public medical care combined. Take a look at what Broock Obama has to say about universal healthcare. As sad as it is to say, I don't see America ever having universal healthcare. People here automatically hate any idea that is the least bit socalist. No matter how logical or how good the idea is.

[CanadaRAM]

Our taxes are outrageous here. Depending on how much you make, it can be from 25%-50%. If you make over $60,000/year, you'll get taxed 50%. :rolleyes:

You don't really understand the concept of progressive taxation (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Progressive_taxation), do you?

Earnings under a certain amount are effectively free from income tax (because your basic deductions zero out the taxable income)

Federal tax rates (http://www.cra-arc.gc.ca/tax/individuals/faq/taxrates-e.html)for 2007 are:

* 15.5% on the first $37,178 of taxable income, +
* 22% on the next $37,179 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $37,178 and $74,357), +
* 26% on the next $46,530 of taxable income (on the portion of taxable income between $74,357 and $120,887),

plus Provincial (for BC where I live)

5.7% on the first $34,397 of taxable income, +
8.65% on the next $34,397, +
11.1% on the next $10,190, +
13% on the next $16,925, +
14.7% on the amount over $95,909

So, if you make $60,000, First you take the standard deductions; this will reduce it to about $50,000 taxable (and taxable would be much less if you have invested in RRSPs, donated to charitable causes, went to school, had dependents, are retired or disabled).

You pay the top rate, 22% Federal / 8.65% Provincial then on only $12,822, not on the whole $50,000 (roughly, because the cutoff points are different fed vs. prov and I can't be arsed to calculate the small differences)

You pay 15.5% + 5.7% on $37,000 roughly speaking.

That's nowhere near a 50% taxation rate, more like 23%.

And to add to Abstract's comments, the Federal GST is 6%, provincial taxes range from 0% to 8%. But typically, provincial taxes do not include essentials like food, childrens clothes and school supplies, books, or services.

[Swarmlord]

At least the citizens here are free.

Wow! We have to wear thrall collars here and are tracked by satellites constantly.

[Swarmlord]

Just wait til you actually need to use your health insurance and find out just how much it won't pay for! You're gonna love just how much of your income gets eaten up then. Oh- and if you get dropped by your health insurance for some reason, I can't wait to hear you scream about how expensive health care is. Half your income? No, you're going into debt.

I work for a university hospital so I have the same health care as the doctors that work here do. Out of pocket expenses are capped at $3,500 for my entire family.

The only screaming I get to do is when I have blood drawn.

[CanadaRAM]

I work for a university hospital so I have the same health care as the doctors that work here do. Out of pocket expenses are capped at $3,500 for my entire family.

The only screaming I get to do is when I have blood drawn.

OK then -- you have possibly the best health plan available, and you pay out of pocket approximately 3 to 4 times what a family in British Columbia pays ($108 per month).

(assuming your monthly payment plus OOP (co-pays, usere fees and decuctibles) together are the $3,500, and that you are not paying income tax on a taxable benefit on the employer portion)

(Variable, because I don't know what prescriptions are included in your plan if any)

[solvs]

http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2007/03/01/opinion/polls/main2528357.shtml

U.S. HEALTH CARE SYSTEM NEEDS…

Minor changes - 8%
Fundamental changes - 54%
To be completely rebuilt - 36%

SHOULD GOVERNMENT GUARANTEE HEALTH INSURANCE FOR ALL?

Yes - 64%
No - 27%

WHICH IS MORE SERIOUS?

Providing health insurance for all - 65%
Keeping health care costs down - 31%
Yeah, I'm with the majority who thinks we need to do something about healthcare. It's ridiculous even if you have insurance. Sure, some are luckier than others. But some are worse off. And some of us actually care about those who are worse off even if we aren't. I used to be, but I got a new job and should have pretty good coverage in a few months. For right now, I have nothing because my COBRA ended, so I'm just praying I don't get sick. My kidney issues cost me enough for a loaded Mac Pro and then some, and that was with insurance. Hopefully that doesn't happen again before I'm hired on full time.

I actually wouldn't mind paying more taxes for things like heathcare, at least it would be going to something for once.

[annk]

I think the ideal - or as close as we can get to it - must be somewhere between. I've lived in the US and Norway, with their drastically differing systems, have experienced in- and outpatient care in both, and see some advantages and drawbacks for both.

The important thing is that people get the care they need, regardless of their ability to pay. I'd happily pay a bit less in taxes her, and have the option to buy a private plan, or some combination thereof. A lot of people wouldn't want or be able to pay for a private plan, and they shouldn't have to. I think a lot of people here would use this option if it were offered, and I suspect it would take some load off the state system, which is really hurting.

A private plan should give a degree of freedom (as in where you are treated, and how quickly, all depending on cost) that the public system lacks. But the bottom line is that everyone needs to be taken care of at an acceptable level.

[Swarmlord]

OK then -- you have possibly the best health plan available, and you pay out of pocket approximately 3 to 4 times what a family in British Columbia pays ($108 per month).

(assuming your monthly payment plus OOP (co-pays, usere fees and decuctibles) together are the $3,500, and that you are not paying income tax on a taxable benefit on the employer portion)

(Variable, because I don't know what prescriptions are included in your plan if any)

Except that my out of pocket expenses are only higher if and when someone in the family has a major medical incident and my taxes* are a fraction of what is paid up in Canada. Therefore, whether through direct payments to the government or payments against a deductable I'm still dollars ahead.

*Lower taxes due to the Heinz-Kerry investment method. God Bless you Theresa!

[heehee]

That's nowhere near a 50% taxation rate, more like 23%.


Hmmm... all i know is almost 50% of my paycheck is going to the goverment. That includes "EI" deductions, CPP and whatever else they take out and it's not "coming back" to me. If you dont believe me, I'll gladly show you my paystub. ;)

[Swarmlord]

Hmmm... all i know is almost 50% of my paycheck is going to the goverment. That includes "EI" deductions, CPP and whatever else they take out and it's not "coming back" to me. If you dont believe me, I'll gladly show you my paystub. ;)

It's the same way here in the states. They break our withholding for taxes into several categories and even hide half of what we pay into SSI by saying the employer pays for it (yeah, right). Any one tax category looks "fair" by itself, but when you do the math and include federal, state, SSI, medicare, property, sales tax, license fees, ad nauseum you soon realize that half of what you make goes to the government.

But, we can't lower taxes because the people that pay the most would benefit the most - at least that's what everyone keeps telling me.:rolleyes:

[leekohler]

It's the same way here in the states. They break our withholding for taxes into several categories and even hide half of what we pay into SSI by saying the employer pays for it (yeah, right). Any one tax category looks "fair" by itself, but when you do the math and include federal, state, SSI, medicare, property, sales tax, license fees, ad nauseum you soon realize that half of what you make goes to the government.

But, we can't lower taxes because the people that pay the most would benefit the most - at least that's what everyone keeps telling me.:rolleyes:

If they lowered them fairly and you could get your beloved conservatives to quit spending so much and actually be responsible, you'd get me on your side.

[Swarmlord]

If they lowered them fairly and you could get your beloved conservatives to quit spending so much and actually be responsible, you'd get me on your side.

I'm all for cutting spending and I've been writing my state and federal reps letters to that effect weekly. I'm afraid that the allure of the bottomless trough has ruined even the best of them. :(

[princealfie]

Man, Canada is a beautiful place... and they're in to my newest sport that I found out I can actually participate in decently (skiing).

BUT, I am most certainly not a socialist and not into big government and big taxes :(

Perhaps if you switched, you would be less stressed? :D