New Apple PDA Patent? [Archive]

Peyote

Jun 16, 2003, 02:01 PM

Anyone know what this is?

I found an Apple patent for a computer interface for Mobile devices that use a stylus input, such as a PDA. The patent directly refers to pen input. The interface has different "peronas" that you can change depending on what you use it for.

An Apple PDA perhaps? Or maybe Apple is making an OS for existing PDA's? I can't see them producing something like this for other PDA's though.

here's a link to Page 3 of the drawings:

http://aiw1.uspto.gov:80/.aiw?PageNum=3&docid=us20030107606ki&IDKey=A4B90226F6E3&HomeUrl=http%3A%2F%2Fappft1.uspto.gov%3A8080%2Fnetacgi%2Fnph-Parser%3FSect1%3DPTO2%2526Sect2%3DHITOFF%2526p%3D1%2526u%3D%25252Fnetahtml%25252FPTO%25252Fsearch-bool.html%2526r%3D1%2526f%3DG%2526l%3D50%2526co1%3DAND%2526d%3DPG01%2526s1%3Dapple.AS.%2526OS%3DAN%2 Fapple%2526RS%3DAN%2Fapple

marcsiry

Jun 16, 2003, 02:07 PM

Anyone know what this is?

That's my old Newton MessagePad 130.

It was old when it fell off my motorcycle and blew apart, back in 1999.

Best PDA I ever had, through today (currently on a Palm V).

Patent filings often refer to relatively old devices. Takes a while to file them (the meaning of "patent pending," I guess.)

Peyote

Jun 16, 2003, 02:09 PM

This patent is not for a PDA itself, but a Persona system for one. Did Newtons come with this persona system? If so, that might explain it. But if not, why would Apple develop a new system like this for a PDA that has been stopped being made for years?

If this was for a new PDA, it makes perfect sense to use the image of an old Newton, so the cat isn't let out of the bag on what a new one would look like. They can also (to some degree) deny they are producing a new one if they use an image of an old one. This is all speculation of course.

Peyote

Jun 16, 2003, 02:19 PM

Anyone seen this yet?

I found an Apple patent for a computer interface for Mobile devices that use a stylus input, such as a PDA. The patent directly refers to pen input. The interface has different "personas" that you can change depending on what you use it for.

An Apple PDA perhaps? Or maybe Apple is making an persona system for existing PDA's? I can't see them producing something like this for Newtons and other PDA's though. Did Newton already come with this? If so, this would be an old patent. If not, who knows what the plans for it are

here's a link to Page 3 of the drawings:

http://aiw1.uspto.gov:80/.aiw?PageN...RS%3DAN%2Fapple

Peyote

Jun 16, 2003, 02:54 PM

Doesn't the new patent I pointed out regarding PDA's peak anyone else interest besides mine? I know Steve said he'll never make a PDA, but what else could this be for?

I don't think it could apply to an iPod, since the patent specifically refers to devices with pointers such as trackpads, mice, pens, etc, and to my knowledge the iPod uses a trackpad, but not a pointer. I suppose it could apply to notebooks, but why not just use an image of an old notebook in the patent?

frozenstar

Jun 16, 2003, 03:03 PM

Originally posted by Peyote
Doesn't the new patent I pointed out regarding PDA's peak anyone else interest besides mine? I know Steve said he'll never make a PDA, but what else could this be for?

I don't think it could apply to an iPod, since the patent specifically refers to devices with pointers such as trackpads, mice, pens, etc, and to my knowledge the iPod uses a trackpad, but not a pointer. I suppose it could apply to notebooks, but why not just use an image of an old notebook in the patent?

I'm sure there are tons of people on this site who would sit around with you for hours on end speculating what this patent might mean. But what does any of that have to do with "Apple at Macworld Creative Pro"?

Peyote

Jun 16, 2003, 03:08 PM

Originally posted by frozenstar
I'm sure there are tons of people on this site who would sit around with you for hours on end speculating what this patent might mean. But what does any of that have to do with "Apple at Macworld Creative Pro"?

Well obviously you must know what this new software will be used in, and you must know what will be released at Macworld Creative Pro, since you think that this patent has nothing to do with Macworld Creative Pro, right? People are speculating in this thread about what might be released. How do we know an Apple PDA or a similar product won't be released at Macworld Creative Pro?

nagromme

Jun 16, 2003, 03:19 PM

Originally posted by Peyote
...
An Apple PDA perhaps? Or maybe Apple is making an persona system for existing PDA's? I can't see them producing ...http://aiw1.uspto.gov:80/.aiw?PageN...RS%3DAN%2Fapple

Interesting, but Apple does hang on to patents for things even if they don't use them in shipping products. I'd have expected the palmrests of the current PowerBooks to be stylus (but not finger) sensitive for drawing and input via Inkwell. I think that would be great! The trackpad area could respond to both stylus and fingers. Didn't happen though.

But any revivial of tablet rumors is always good fun!

Peyote

Jun 16, 2003, 03:39 PM

Originally posted by nagromme
Interesting, but Apple does hang on to patents for things even if they don't use them in shipping products. I'd have expected the palmrests of the current PowerBooks to be stylus (but not finger) sensitive for drawing and input via Inkwell. I think that would be great! The trackpad area could respond to both stylus and fingers. Didn't happen though.

But any revivial of tablet rumors is always good fun!

I have been wishing Apple would release a tablet for a LONG a$$ time! I don't think this is a case of Apple hanging onto a patent. You only need to apply for a patent once, so I don't think this is a case of Apple hanging onto a patent. Especially since Newtons never came with this feature (to my knowledge).

Vonnie

Jun 16, 2003, 03:54 PM

Originally posted by Peyote
Doesn't the new patent I pointed out regarding PDA's peak anyone else interest besides mine? I know Steve said he'll never make a PDA, but what else could this be for?

I don't think it could apply to an iPod, since the patent specifically refers to devices with pointers such as trackpads, mice, pens, etc, and to my knowledge the iPod uses a trackpad, but not a pointer. I suppose it could apply to notebooks, but why not just use an image of an old notebook in the patent?

Well the "persona" part of the patent is huge ************. Cellphones implement that kind of functionality for years now.

Other than that I really doubt Apple will be making a PDA anytime soon. What can apple do that is significantly better than other pdas, and which people will actually buy?

tny

Jun 16, 2003, 04:07 PM

Even if it is something "new," i.e., not in the Newton, it might very well be something intended for Newton, but never used. Keeping the patent makes sense, as you can license it to others if they develop the same tech.

Peyote

Jun 16, 2003, 04:12 PM

Originally posted by Vonnie
Well the "persona" part of the patent is huge ************. Cellphones implement that kind of functionality for years now.

Other than that I really doubt Apple will be making a PDA anytime soon. What can apple do that is significantly better than other pdas, and which people will actually buy?

Why is the "Persona" ************? The patent states that the software would be used for mobile devices with pointing devices such as pens, mice, and trackpads. That has nothing to do with cellphones. Obviously the patent office doesn't think it's ************, and they are the folks that decide.

A tablet perhaps?

pyrotoaster

Jun 16, 2003, 04:21 PM

Originally posted by Peyote
I have been wishing Apple would release a tablet for a LONG a$$ time! I don't think this is a case of Apple hanging onto a patent. You only need to apply for a patent once, so I don't think this is a case of Apple hanging onto a patent. Especially since Newtons never came with this feature (to my knowledge).
That's some interesting stuff. It reminds me of MacWhispers rumor about the mini-tabletesque device.

This is obviously technology that could enhance any upcoming DLD peripheral devices from Apple. It sounds very user-interfacey.

richard5mith

Jun 16, 2003, 04:38 PM

Originally posted by Peyote
Obviously the patent office doesn't think it's ************, and they are the folks that decide.

You trust the patent office to decide what's bull and what's not? You obviously haven't been following some of the things they pass, like "the act of swinging on a swing sideways." They're clueless.

Anyway, Joz at the Create thing is very odd, as normally Schiller follows up any Jobs keynote and goes into some of the software a little deeper. With a hardware guy following up, that suggests that Steve is going to announce hardware at WWDC for sure (and yes, only Steve would announce big new products, nobody else) and Joz is going to demonstrate how much faster it is for the creative folks. So I'd expect another Photoshop bake-off. Maybe Adobe have been optimising for the new chip already....

Vonnie

Jun 16, 2003, 04:45 PM

Originally posted by Peyote
Why is the "Persona" ************? The patent states that the software would be used for mobile devices with pointing devices such as pens, mice, and trackpads. That has nothing to do with cellphones. Obviously the patent office doesn't think it's ************, and they are the folks that decide.

A tablet perhaps?

The persona patent thing is ************, because there is prior art in cellphones.

The persona with pen based input patent is ************ because Ericsson has a cellphone with pen based input, and a persona thing. (called the P800).

jelloshotsrule

Jun 16, 2003, 05:16 PM

Originally posted by Peyote
I have been wishing Apple would release a tablet for a LONG a$$ time! I don't think this is a case of Apple hanging onto a patent. You only need to apply for a patent once, so I don't think this is a case of Apple hanging onto a patent. Especially since Newtons never came with this feature (to my knowledge).

so explain these internet provider names? as szark said elsewhere... how many of these companies are still around?

edit: in other words... it's from the newton.

jelloshotsrule

Jun 16, 2003, 05:23 PM

more on the pda thing

if you go through some more of the drawings... you'll get to this:

notice the "you can exchange your owner card with someone with another newton... tap beam card on both newtons" hmmm

jelloshotsrule

Jun 16, 2003, 06:07 PM

i've learned that it's time to ignore this peyote guy. he keeps talking up this amazing pda patent he found. which is obviously just for the newton.

see my response to him in the roundup thread for images/proof.

i think it's reasonable that the big stuff will be announced by steve at wwdc then shown again a short 3-4 weeks later by the other guy... though who knows what the big stuff will be. exactly

Peyote

Jun 16, 2003, 07:46 PM

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
i've learned that it's time to ignore this peyote guy. he keeps talking up this amazing pda patent he found. which is obviously just for the newton.

see my response to him in the roundup thread for images/proof.

First of all, I don't give a **** what you think. I brought up something interesting that I found, thought others might find it interesting, which they have, and was sure others would dismiss it, which they have as well. You have your opinion, I have mine. What proof of anything do you have? Oh right, those pictures. Well IF Apple was going to come out with a PDA or tablet device, do you REALLY think that they would show the interface before announcing the product? Did it ever occur to you that they might want to use a Newton in all the drawings so that people don't see what they are up to? Just because the interface is shown on a Newton, doesn't mean that's the only thing it can be applied to! If you took 5 seconds out of your schedule filled with criticizing people to read the actual document, you'd know what the hell you're talking about, and would realize that about 1/4 of the document states time and time again that this technology is not limited to the device shown in the illustrations (Newton)! So before you get your little panties all twisted up, make sure you know what you are talking about.

jelloshotsrule

Jun 16, 2003, 07:49 PM

Originally posted by Peyote
First of all, I don't give a **** what you think. I brought up something interesting that I found, thought others might find it interesting, which they have, and was sure others would dismiss it, which they have as well. You have your opinion, I have mine. What proof of anything do you have? Oh right, those pictures. Well IF Apple was going to come out with a PDA or tablet device, do you REALLY think that they would show the interface before announcing the product? Did it ever occur to you that they might want to use a Newton in all the drawings so that people don't see what they are up to? Just because the interface is shown on a Newton, doesn't mean that's the only thing it can be applied to! If you took 5 seconds out of your schedule filled with criticizing people to read the actual document, you'd know what the hell you're talking about, and would realize that about 1/4 of the document states time and time again that this technology is not limited to the device shown in the illustrations (Newton)! So before you get your little panties all twisted up, make sure you know what you are talking about.

haha. you put me in my place. i'll apologize when the new apple pda comes out.

arn

Jun 16, 2003, 07:56 PM

Originally posted by Peyote
Doesn't the new patent I pointed out regarding PDA's peak anyone else interest besides mine? I know Steve said he'll never make a PDA, but what else could this be for?

I don't think it could apply to an iPod, since the patent specifically refers to devices with pointers such as trackpads, mice, pens, etc, and to my knowledge the iPod uses a trackpad, but not a pointer. I suppose it could apply to notebooks, but why not just use an image of an old notebook in the patent?

This is an old patent (continuation) for the Newton. Nothing new here.

This application is a Continuation of U.S. patent application Ser. No. 08/512,021, filed Aug. 7, 1995, entitled "MULTIPLE PERSONAS FOR MOBILE DEVICES," and which is hereby incorporated by reference herein

arn

Peyote

Jun 16, 2003, 08:00 PM

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule
haha. you put me in my place. i'll apologize when the new apple pda comes out.

You're pathetic and tend to oversimplify everything I say to try to have an arguement against me. I bring up an interesting topic and speculated on what it could, and you decide that I am wrong and should be ignored.

You're a sad, sad little person.

jelloshotsrule

Jun 16, 2003, 08:21 PM

Originally posted by Peyote
You're pathetic and tend to oversimplify everything I say to try to have an arguement against me. I bring up an interesting topic and speculated on what it could, and you decide that I am wrong and should be ignored.

You're a sad, sad little person.

hahaha. you rule man.

seriously. i'm the one who is trying to argue you claim and yet you keep coming back at me when i said i'd apologize when the new apple pda comes out?

seriously, shoot me a message on your new pda when they come out and i'll be happy to apologize...

you're the man now dog!

whereas i... just a sad, sad little person...

ouketii

Jun 16, 2003, 08:27 PM

ah, apple seems to have alot of patents. for just about everything. its too bad they didnt patent what they had back before bill gates struck.. anyway, you never hear about dell or hp doing any patents (i'm sure they do, though). i guess it would be harder when all you do is cram generic parts in boxes.

Mac til death

Jun 16, 2003, 09:11 PM

Peyote

Jun 16, 2003, 09:32 PM

Originally posted by Mac til death
uh.... that's a patent for the newton... give it up...

I think you might be looking for macOSrumors anyway.

Oh now you're on that too, huh? Thanks for restating what Arn has POLITELY shown everyone. Go back to your rock.

Peyote

Jun 16, 2003, 09:35 PM

Originally posted by jelloshotsrule

whereas i... just a sad, sad little person...

The first step is admitting your have a problem

Finally a statement where you are not criticizing someone for saying "What if".

jelloshotsrule

Jun 16, 2003, 09:39 PM

Originally posted by Peyote
Oh now you're on that too, huh? Go back to your rock.

yeah, it's a conspiracy against you...

considering the owner of this site said unquestioningly that it was for the newton, and he sees more rumors than you do and can pick through them pretty darn well...

but, great try.

i love how you say i "tend" to criticize people for saying what if when you obviously have no idea what you're talking about. i have no problem saying "what if". my point is that it's pretty well been shown that those patents are old, and your overzealousness about them (ie, "guys did you see this?!?!?!" in 3 or 4 or 5 different threads) makes me laugh at your "what if"...

"what if" you weren't so amazingly in tune with the way i think?!??

Mac til death

Jun 16, 2003, 09:41 PM

Originally posted by Peyote
Oh now you're on that too, huh? Thanks for restating what Arn has POLITELY shown everyone. Go back to your rock.

The first step is admitting your have a problem

Finally a statement where you are not criticizing someone for saying "What if".

Dude really... Take this kind of thing somewhere else...

nobody wants to hear it...