Apple Patent Application For Button-less Mouse Design

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

A patent application by Apple, released today, indicates that the company is continuing to explore new ways for users to command their Macs.

Patent Application number 20070080945 (http://appft1.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sect2=HITOFF&u=%2Fnetahtml%2FPTO%2Fsearch-adv.html&r=1&f=G&l=50&d=PG01&p=1&S1=20070080945&OS=20070080945&RS=20070080945) details a mouse having a button-less pan and scroll switch. Apple details that instead of using a traditional scroll wheel (or scroll ball in the case of the Mighty Mouse), the mouse would sense different hand positions and act in different ways according to how it is being held.

In one embodiment, the first mode of operation of the mouse may be a cursor control mode and the first operations on the display screen may be cursor movements on the display screen. Additionally, the second mode of operation of the mouse may be a pan and/or scroll control mode and the second operations on the display screen may be scrolling and/or panning movements on the display screen.

Patent applications can provide interesting insight into what concepts or technologies Apple is working on in their labs, however readers are reminded that only a subset of these applications will make it into final shipping products.

[SunnyBonno]

There is a more detailed report on this at Appleinsider with images here:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/04/12/next_gen_apple_mouse_may_dump_scroll_ball_for_touch_housing.html

[eto]

Possible replacement for scroll ball?
I'm in!:D

[One Bad Duck]

I read somewhere they are working on a more 3D interface? So presumably they need a whole new mouse to better interact with the whole computer.

[syklee26]

i don't know why Apple keeps wasting time and resources on a mouse that doesn't need much invention. Mouse is fine as the way it is. Make mouse that has same conventional multi button that Logitech or MS makes.

Apple should be using those resources on perfecting Touchscreen iPods or potential touchscreen Displays.

[asketchbook]

This should be a great product. The Mighty Mouse's biggest flaw is it's scroll wheel. It's great being able to scroll sideways and vertically, but the ball is so small that it often gets clogged and needs to be cleaned out.

[epochblue]

I don't really mind the scroll ball, but I think this could definitely be interesting (especially after seeing the patent pics).

[dude-x]

This mouse has to be super ergonomic for me to consider using something like this. I am prone to getting RSI (repetitve stress injury) so something like this has to be very natural, and fast to use.

Intersting patent application nevertheless. Might be useful for my Photoshop work.

[Unspeaked]

I dunno, all these button-less thingies are too meta for me.

I think they just make things more confusing...

[xUKHCx]

I like the mighty mouse but this seems like it could be a good alternative. It would be good if you could choose where abouts on the mouse certain "buttons" could be placed. This would enable the user to define as many buttons as the suer wants (up to a limit). If only the mighty mouse had 2 more buttons (could've been added by allowing the squeeze pads to operate as single buttons)

[QCassidy352]

the biggest problem with the mighty mouse is that it doesn't have distinct buttons, and that the left and right click sometimes get confused. Eliminating buttons entirely seems like it would make such problems even worse.

[longofest]

There is a more detailed report on this at Appleinsider with images here:

http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/04/12/next_gen_apple_mouse_may_dump_scroll_ball_for_touch_housing.html

AI's summary took a bunch of quotes from the patent description and didn't do much for making it easier for people to understand. You might as well read the patent itself which we linked to in the article.

[Digital Skunk]

It would get rid of that annoying mighty mouse scroll wheel.

And it would give us the cool look of the original apple mouse... I say bring it on.

[Peace]

A successful button-less mouse would indeed be inventing a better mouse and could be revolutionary if done right.

[Digital Skunk]

the biggest problem with the mighty mouse is that it doesn't have distinct buttons, and that the left and right click sometimes get confused. Eliminating buttons entirely seems like it would make such problems even worse.

I think the problem with people hitting the wrong button on the MM stems from clumsiness. It isn't a problem with mice that have big buttons and nobs, but with the MM, there needs to be more finessing.

[Digital Skunk]

A successful button-less mouse would indeed be inventing a better mouse and could be revolutionary if done right.

Make it wireless and make the batteries recharge through a USB charger and the mouse can still work through the same USB cord while it is charging the dead batteries like the Radtech.us has and we can get along well.

[Max Payne]

This is cool. Hope they introduce this into the consumers main stream soon. :)

[Mydel]

the biggest problem with the mighty mouse is that it doesn't have distinct buttons, and that the left and right click sometimes get confused. Eliminating buttons entirely seems like it would make such problems even worse.

Ireally like the MM and lack of buttons doesn't bother me at all. Scroll ball its another story. Although I consider myself clean person :D this stupid ball stop to work after like 3 months. I have already like third one and again scrolling action begun to be PITA. If you can eliminate that prroblem I'm all in

[AtHomeBoy_2000]

whoever draws Apple's patent illustrations has some SERIOUSLY malformed hands.

[zioxide]

If there's one thing Apple sucks at, it's designing mice. They should just outsource it to Logitech to make an "Apple White" version of a couple of their mice.

[eto]

whoever draws Apple's patent illustrations has some SERIOUSLY malformed hands.

I was just about to comment on the same thing!:D

[johnee]

Make it wireless and make the batteries recharge through a USB charger and the mouse can still work through the same USB cord while it is charging the dead batteries like the Radtech.us has and we can get along well.

A truly revolutionary mouse would be charged via a mouse pad. There is a lot of research going on, but it's basically a simple application of maxwell's equations.

The concept is to have a mousepad which radiates a small electromagnetic field (which constantly surround you already, so don't think you will get hand cancer). the mouse would have a built in antenna which converts the field to current, thus either charging batts or runs the mouse entirely.

[nagromme]

Shifting hand position is an extra unwelcome step that I doubt will ever ship (with the possible exception of just lifting all clicking-fingers without changing grip), but I'm glad to see Apple keeps coming up with krazy new ideas! Some great ones often float to the top.

(How about a mouse that clicks Cancel when you throw it at a wall?)

[gavd]

A truly revolutionary mouse would be charged via a mouse pad. There is a lot of research going on, but it's basically a simple application of maxwell's equations.

The concept is to have a mousepad which radiates a small electromagnetic field (which constantly surround you already, so don't think you will get hand cancer). the mouse would have a built in antenna which converts the field to current, thus either charging batts or runs the mouse entirely.

This sounds interesting. Presumably some way off actually making it out into the public market though?

[siurpeeman]

I think the problem with people hitting the wrong button on the MM stems from clumsiness. It isn't a problem with mice that have big buttons and nobs, but with the MM, there needs to be more finessing.

the problem isn't clumsiness. it's that people don't hold their mice the way apple thinks you should. i'd often have the mouse register right clicks when i simply wanted a click because i wouldn't hold it just right. i wish apple would go back to convential buttons with their mice.

[Data]

I think it's called induction and works the same as with an electric touth brush, and i agree that would be great ;-)

[MacNut]

Why is Apple stuck on the idea that people don't like buttons.:confused:

[MongoTheGeek]

Shifting hand position is an extra unwelcome step that I doubt will ever ship (with the possible exception of just lifting all clicking-fingers without changing grip), but I'm glad to see Apple keeps coming up with krazy new ideas! Some great ones often float to the top.

(How about a mouse that clicks Cancel when you throw it at a wall?)

Looking at the hand positions one is fingers up the other is fingers down. So its not so much changing hand position as it is lifting the fingers.


Their attorney made a mistake though. The patent called for 2 hand positions. So someone can come along and patents 3 or more hand positions and cite the Apple patent as prior art and the make one with 3 or more positions.

They would have to pay Apple to use the patent but Apple would have to pay them if they go with more than 2.

I saw the complaint about wheel on the mighty mouse gunking. What if it were optical? slide your finger across a smooth lit dot.

[johnee]

Why is Apple stuck on the idea that people don't like buttons.:confused:

my opinion: they want to make their designs more intuitive, and they think removing buttons is the way to go. I don't agree with that, but let's see if they come up with an intuitive buttonless mouse.

Also, it gives them headlines... "Apple does something again!" :D

[johnee]

This sounds interesting. Presumably some way off actually making it out into the public market though?

yeah, you still see this stuff in conferences. I would say at least a couple of years.

[MattG]

i don't know why Apple keeps wasting time and resources on a mouse that doesn't need much invention. Mouse is fine as the way it is. Make mouse that has same conventional multi button that Logitech or MS makes.

Apple should be using those resources on perfecting Touchscreen iPods or potential touchscreen Displays.

Totally agree. They're over-complicating what should be a really simple device. I will continue to use my MS Optical Mouse.

[jellomizer]

Why is Apple stuck on the idea that people don't like buttons.:confused:

Well there is first an issue of ergonomics. Our body wasn't evolved for pressing buttons. We are good at grasping and manipulating but pressing buttons not so much, if we press to many buttons it hurts our arms and hands.

Next is an issue of hardware design. Buttons take up mechanical space. They cannot change its shape to match the Application The primary iPhone argument.

Enviroment buttons often have gaps and collect dust dirst oils and grime get sticky or just break and makes a over $100 device unusable because of a failure of a $0.01 Part.

Exports shipping products across countries is easier without having to manufacutre buttons with different languges.

Handedness. Some people are left handed others are right handed sometimes the need to use the same device.

Takes time to figure out. Just yesterday I got stuck in an elivator. I needed to find the best way to call for help. Reading all the buttons even ones that don't work anymore was a daunting task. My first guess was the big red button but it was for a fire emergancy. Finally in the bottom left corner was one with a bell.

Buttons are usually the easy way out. Not the best but the easist.

[iJawn108]

I hope they do away with the side buttons as well. I'll buy it thanks.

Wireless Mightymouse will be up on craigslist within moments of the release.

[SpudNYC]

I like the scroll ball in the MM but I've gotta say, increasing the requirements of the user to operate the mouse is not good. I should be able to use my mouse in MORE ways, not less. With a normal non-apple mouse I can move and click with anything. Hypothetically, let's say I'm 6 feet from my computer and I need to right-click to activate something. I could reach over with a yardstick and tab the mouse button. With a MM that's not possible. Maybe a kid wants to build a Leggo robot to control the mouse. Won't happen with a MM. I'm not saying this kind of stuff is common, I just think it shouldn't be impossible. I don't see any usability advantages to tying the mouse to specific fleshy requirements. Buttons are where it's at.

[twoodcc]

i'm not so sure this would be good.....but we'll see. if anyone could make this work, apple could

[ElderscrollsV]

I think the best way to do it is this.

have the mouse....and right where your index finger would lay...have a presure sensitive "touch pad" if you will....One that doesnt detect movement...just one that detects pressure.....


you have your finger on the touch pad to move your curser

you lift the one finger up to scroll......

If it was FAST AND SEAMLESS.....NOTHING could beat it....

add a charging mouspad that has the leopard logo on it...and prepare to sell millions

[Digital Skunk]

A truly revolutionary mouse would be charged via a mouse pad. There is a lot of research going on, but it's basically a simple application of maxwell's equations.

The concept is to have a mousepad which radiates a small electromagnetic field (which constantly surround you already, so don't think you will get hand cancer). the mouse would have a built in antenna which converts the field to current, thus either charging batts or runs the mouse entirely.

Nope... That means: (1) I have to have the mouse pad plugged in all the time, might as well get a Wacom tablet. And (2) I won't be able to carry the mouse with me and use it with my MacBook or any laptop or on any other machine unless I have the mouse pad with me.

Great idea... it's been done with the Wacom and other tablets in a much simpler way.:D

[zero2dash]

If there's one thing Apple sucks at, it's designing mice. They should just outsource it to Logitech to make an "Apple White" version of a couple of their mice.

Why is Apple stuck on the idea that people don't like buttons.:confused:

Totally agree. They're over-complicating what should be a really simple device. I will continue to use my MS Optical Mouse.

Absolutely.
Apple's mice designs are horrendous. :confused: :rolleyes:
The hockey puck was bad enough, then they release the optical "push the whole frickin' thing down to click" mouse. I don't have much experience with a Mighty Mouse but the little experience that I do have - I don't like those either.

Mice are supposed to be a simple design. Tried and true...if it ain't broke, don't fix it. I know Apple strives for innovation and improvements, but in this area - I think Apple needs to take a few steps back instead of a few leaps forward with some new radical design.

I'll stick with my Logitech mice. :o

[Digital Skunk]

Why is Apple stuck on the idea that people don't like buttons.:confused:

Because buttons jam and get broken and get lost and they are a pain in the arse to fix.

And because it is the future, buttons are so 20th century, they are like the nobs of the old old cathode ray tube TVs.

[Peel]

Sounds like a varient of Multi-Touch applied to the surface of a mouse. I'm excited that Apple is studying such things. Who knows where this will lead, but the concept certainly opens up a whole new category of ways to interact with the computer.

[Peel]

...if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Ah... the mantra of Dell.

My grandma's B&W TV from the 60's still works - it ain't broke. But boy am I sure glad that RCA et al didn't listen to comments like yours.

[toneloco2881]

i don't know why Apple keeps wasting time and resources on a mouse that doesn't need much invention. Mouse is fine as the way it is. Make mouse that has same conventional multi button that Logitech or MS makes.

Apple should be using those resources on perfecting Touchscreen iPods or potential touchscreen Displays.
COULD NOT AGREE MORE! I love Apple, and their intent on trying to innovate, but sometimes they seem to do it for innovation's sake. Can anyone say ADC connector? When I first saw the mighty mouse, I was like why the hell can't they just release a normal mouse, with a distinct right and left click. It seems non-sophisticated, and this sounds even more-so. Stop trying to reinvent the wheel all the time, and just give us something that is proven, and works without some learning curve.

[Digital Skunk]

the problem isn't clumsiness. it's that people don't hold their mice the way apple thinks you should. i'd often have the mouse register right clicks when i simply wanted a click because i wouldn't hold it just right. i wish apple would go back to convential buttons with their mice.

But then again, all the tech we use at desktop workstations weren't ergonomic to begin with. Everyone's getting carpal tunnel and eye problems from not using their monitors, keyboards, and mice correctly anyway. There is a proper way to use a mouse and keyboard and a proper way to position a monitor. Keeping the buttons on a mouse to me is irrelevant to how you use it. Apple just needs to make the sensors in the MM better. Now that I can understand.:D There are times I click the right side of the MM and the left button responds. A better sensor is what it needs, not more buttons that get clogged and make us look like monkies in front of a TV screen.:D

[SpudNYC]

buttons are so 20th century, they are like the nobs of the old old cathode ray tube TVs.

What have those knobs been replaced with? 99 times out of 100 it's a button.

[~Shard~]

I see this as having huge potential. The mouse was a revolutionary invention when it first came out - this could be the next generation of input devices.

And it makes sense. Apple's multi-touch technology is great for the iPhone, but I don't see it as feasible just yet for computers themselves, i.e. computers which are only touch screens a la Minority Report. Yes, the technology exists, but it's too much of a leap right now. So, instead of having a multi-touch screen for your computer itself, why not have an input device which accomplishes the same goal? Have a mouse which is multi touch and interacts with the UI accordingly. Not only would this be a significant advancement, but then throw 3D into the mix. Now all of a sudden, instead of only being able to move up & down and left & right on your screen, with a new mouse such as this one you can move "into" and "out of" a 3D UI as well. Imagine the possibilities.

I'm not sure when we'll actually see this type of technology, but it's good to see Apple is working on it and has these types of concepts in mind. :cool:

[dpaanlka]

I disagree with a lot of people here. I think, firstly, the Mighty Mouse is a great idea with poor execution (of the ball). I want Apple to continue making multi button mice that LOOK like they don't have any buttons (in the traditional Apple way).

I hope they can come up with a solution to the ball problem, and continue making simple elegant mice.

[Digital Skunk]

What have those knobs been replaced with? 99 times out of 100 it's a button.

And now they will be replaced with sensors and touch sensitive capacitors and what not:D

[~Shard~]

if it ain't broke, don't fix it.

Or in other words, who needs innovation and progress? :rolleyes:

Stop trying to reinvent the wheel all the time

Who says they are trying to re-invent the wheel? Sure, perhaps they refer to this as a mouse, but depending how Apple does it, this could be a completely different type of input method utilizing multi-touch technology and providing 3D capabilities. It's not a matter of re-inventing the wheel, it's a matter of inventing a new, possibly superior method of input. :cool:

And regardless, that's progress - plain and simple. I suppose a few years ago you were lobbying that cell phone makers shouldn't change anything either? "It's just a phone, just let me make calls, that's all it needs to be - don't reinvent the wheel". If they had listened we wouldn't have streaming video, built-in cameras, MP3 capability or SMS - are these all bad innovations? Furthermore, we wouldn't have an iPhone either. :cool:

just give us something that is proven, and works without some learning curve.

Is that what people said when the first mouse was released? I remember when that was, and there were all sorts of built-in tutorial programs on how to move the mouse, how to click, how to double-click, etc. So sure, if this is simply another mouse, fine, but if this is a completely new method of input as it has the potential to be, then a learning curve is simply to be expected - and welcomed.

Come on people, think outside the box. :cool:

[JeffDM]

I think the problem with people hitting the wrong button on the MM stems from clumsiness. It isn't a problem with mice that have big buttons and nobs, but with the MM, there needs to be more finessing.

No. For one, the MM does have big "buttons", the left and right corners are basically huge sensing areas. To read a secondary mouse click, you must not have a finger near the primary button. If there is anything near the primary button when you click, the mouse assumes that you clicked the primary button. MM uses a capacitive sensing system, which senses proximity, not contact or pressure. In short, to use the secondary button, the user must raise their primary button finger in order to register as a secondary button press. That is a behavior requirement that is not forced by any other model of mouse I've ever used or seen.

Because buttons jam and get broken and get lost and they are a pain in the arse to fix.

Button micro switches are incredibly durable. They last a few million clicks, and if it dies, you can replace the mouse, by the time it breaks, it's probably served a long enough life as it is. I'm still using a Logitech DEC rebranded mouse from a computer I bought in 1998 and it's still working fine, despite daily use for many hours a day. I have never lost a button or had a button jam, I'm not sure why you think loss of buttons is a concern.

[ortuno2k]

It's a good idea that they're releasing another build, but nothing said on the "secret features" yet, and a tonload of bugs!
Starts me to think that the "secret features" are just overhyped standard features which have gotten a facelift.:rolleyes:
But I do think that a new GUI or Finder are possible, though.

Oops, posted this on the wrong thread; was meant for the Leopard seed comment.

[3D-Troll]

I think this could be a cool thing. I'm looking for a three button mouse, but these days you always have the wheel as the middle button. I had to turn off the wheel functionality in Maya so that I wouldn't zoom all the time when I need the middle click. So if the mouse could easily distinguish between a middle mouse click and a scroll I would be sold.

Oh, right now I use the Mac keyboard and mouse set from Logitech that comes in the Apple colors - white with silver accents. :)

Steffen

[Digital Skunk]

No. To read a secondary mouse click, you must not have a finger near the primary button. If there is anything near the primary button when you click, the mouse assumes that you clicked the primary button. MM uses a capacitive sensing system, which senses proximity, not contact or pressure. In short, to use the secondary button, the user must raise their primary button finger in order to register as a secondary button press. That is a behavior requirement that is not forced by any other model of mouse I've ever used or seen.

Button micro switches are incredibly durable. They last a few million clicks, and if it dies, you can replace the mouse, by the time it breaks, it's probably served a long enough life as it is. I'm still using a Logitech DEC rebranded mouse from a computer I bought in 1998 and it's still working fine, despite daily use for many hours a day. I have never lost a button or had a button jam, I'm not sure why you think loss of buttons is a concern.

They break when you dropped them..

The reason that you gave still means build a better sensor system in the mouse. Having actual buttons is over rated.:D

Not to mention that scroll wheels on all mice SUCK. They are always getting jammed and gunked up. The MM is the worst by far, but every single one I use just sucks.

[Digital Skunk]

Or in other words, who needs innovation and progress? :rolleyes:



Who says they are trying to re-invent the wheel? Sure, perhaps they refer to this as a mouse, but depending how Apple does it, this could be a completely different type of input method utilizing multi-touch technology and providing 3D capabilities. It's not a matter of re-inventing the wheel, it's a matter of inventing a new, possibly superior method of input. :cool:

And regardless, that's progress - plain and simple. I suppose a few years ago you were lobbying that cell phone makers shouldn't change anything either? "It's just a phone, just let me make calls, that's all it needs to be - don't reinvent the wheel". If they had listened we wouldn't have streaming video, built-in cameras, MP3 capability or SMS - are these all bad innovations? Furthermore, we wouldn't have an iPhone either. :cool:



Is that what people said when the first mouse was released? I remember when that was, and there were all sorts of built-in tutorial programs on how to move the mouse, how to click, how to double-click, etc. So sure, if this is simply another mouse, fine, but if this is a completely new method of input as it has the potential to be, then a learning curve is simply to be expected - and welcomed.

Come on people, think outside the box. :cool:

I am gladd you understand... Why not use the first mouse Apple invented. Then we would have a big clunky box with a serial cable sticking out of the side.

[Digital Skunk]

Ah... the mantra of Dell.

My grandma's B&W TV from the 60's still works - it ain't broke. But boy am I sure glad that RCA et al didn't listen to comments like yours.

Be careful man... people will think you are some type of person that likes innovation and breakthrough ideas and technology.

[MacFly123]

I am sorry, as huge of an Apple fan as I am, I have to admit IMHO Apple has never mad a GOOD mouse. I think the MightyMouse looks really nice, but ergonomicaly it is horrible. All their mice are too small and hurt your hands to use. And the scroll ball is cool in concept, but once again its too small, it doesnt feel good.

[Digital Skunk]

No. For one, the MM does have big "buttons", the left and right corners are basically huge sensing areas. To read a secondary mouse click, you must not have a finger near the primary button. If there is anything near the primary button when you click, the mouse assumes that you clicked the primary button. MM uses a capacitive sensing system, which senses proximity, not contact or pressure. In short, to use the secondary button, the user must raise their primary button finger in order to register as a secondary button press. That is a behavior requirement that is not forced by any other model of mouse I've ever used or seen.



Button micro switches are incredibly durable. They last a few million clicks, and if it dies, you can replace the mouse, by the time it breaks, it's probably served a long enough life as it is. I'm still using a Logitech DEC rebranded mouse from a computer I bought in 1998 and it's still working fine, despite daily use for many hours a day. I have never lost a button or had a button jam, I'm not sure why you think loss of buttons is a concern.


And not just buttons on a mouse, buttons on everything... The ACD don't have any buttons on them at all. Neither does the iPod Nano or fullsize or the iPhone. Not that buttons don't work or are inferior, just that it may be time to try something new. :) Nothing was wrong with film but we all have DSLRs and nothing was wrong with the abacus and look where we are now.

[JaegerMac]

i like sweet !

[Digital Skunk]

I am sorry, as huge of an Apple fan as I am, I have to admit IMHO Apple has never mad a GOOD mouse. I think the MightyMouse looks really nice, but ergonomicaly it is horrible. All their mice are too small and hurt your hands to use. And the scroll ball is cool in concept, but once again its too small, it doesnt feel good.

They do suck, the MM scroll wheel is the worst. But all other mice suck too. And I hate touching cheap plastic so every PC mouse out there is horrible to use.

Which is why there needs to be a change in them.

[johnee]

Nope... That means: (1) I have to have the mouse pad plugged in all the time, might as well get a Wacom tablet. And (2) I won't be able to carry the mouse with me and use it with my MacBook or any laptop or on any other machine unless I have the mouse pad with me.

Great idea... it's been done with the Wacom and other tablets in a much simpler way.:D

does the mouse batts get charged in the Wacom system?

[~Shard~]

It's a good idea that they're releasing another build, but nothing said on the "secret features" yet, and a tonload of bugs!
Starts me to think that the "secret features" are just overhyped standard features which have gotten a facelift.:rolleyes:
But I do think that a new GUI or Finder are possible, though.

I think you're in the wrong thread buddy. :p ;)

I am glad you understand... Why not use the first mouse Apple invented. Then we would have a big clunky box with a serial cable sticking out of the side.

Precisely. It never ceases to amaze me how change adverse some people can be. They seem to be comfortable and complacent with no desire to, once again, think outside the box - rather, to quickly dismiss anything which might alter what they are used to. Thank god there are some innovative people out there willing to take risks and push the envelope.

And yes, I realize we're talking about "just a mouse" here, but I am not speaking in the context of this being a simple "mouse upgrade" a la the Mighty Mouse - I see it having the potential to be much more than that, as I have alluded to in my previous posts. What bothers me is when people automatically dismiss something without giving it the attention it deserves and neglect to consider the big picture. :cool:

[gkarris]

Funny how Windows users complained that Mac only has one mouse button.

Apple's answer is to have a mouse with no buttons at all!!!:eek:

[wordmunger]

No. For one, the MM does have big "buttons", the left and right corners are basically huge sensing areas. To read a secondary mouse click, you must not have a finger near the primary button. If there is anything near the primary button when you click, the mouse assumes that you clicked the primary button. MM uses a capacitive sensing system, which senses proximity, not contact or pressure. In short, to use the secondary button, the user must raise their primary button finger in order to register as a secondary button press. That is a behavior requirement that is not forced by any other model of mouse I've ever used or seen.

Wow! Thank you for that! That's the first strategy I've ever seen for reliably right-clicking with a mighty mouse. It's stupid design, but now I know what I need to do to successfully right-click, my life will be much easier.

[Digital Skunk]

I think you're in the wrong thread buddy. :p ;)



Precisely. It never ceases to amaze me how change adverse some people can be. They seem to be comfortable and complacent with no desire to, once again, think outside the box - rather, to quickly dismiss anything which might alter what they are used to. Thank god there are some innovative people out there willing to take risks and push the envelope.

And yes, I realize we're talking about "just a mouse" here, but I am not speaking in the context of this being a simple "mouse upgrade" a la the Mighty Mouse - I see it having the potential to be much more than that, as I have alluded to in my previous posts. What bothers me is when people automatically dismiss something without giving it the attention it deserves and neglect to consider the big picture. :cool:

Hmmm. I hear the voices of those that wanted to stick to their CD players becasue there were cheaper and worked without a computer. The iPod is never going to succeed, it is useless, give me my big round CD player and clicky buttons, who cares about a digital music player with an annoying scroll wheel. Make me a better CD player.:D

[Counter]

Typo:

The one or more buttons are typically provided by on or more button caps that move relative to the mouse housing.

Apple is falling apart now I'm on holiday. I'll be having words when I get back.

[Digital Skunk]

Wow! Thank you for that! That's the first strategy I've ever seen for reliably right-clicking with a mighty mouse. It's stupid design, but now I know what I need to do to successfully right-click, my life will be much easier.

The design is good, its the tech that sucks.

[~Shard~]

Hmmm. I hear the voices of those that wanted to stick to their CD players becasue there were cheaper and worked without a computer. The iPod is never going to succeed, it is useless, give me my big round CD player and clicky buttons, who cares about a digital music player with an annoying scroll wheel. Make me a better CD player.:D

Well said. Glad to see I'm not alone in my line of thinking. :cool:

[QuarterSwede]

does the mouse batts get charged in the Wacom system?
Wacom mice don't use batteries. The tablet is plugged in via USB and tracks the mouse. The limitation is that the mouse has to be on the tablet to work.


Personally, I don't like the MM. If Apple made pressure sensitive sensors that worked instead of proximity ones and got rid of the scroll ball and opted for a two-fingered trackpad scroll approach, I'd be sold. In fact, I don't see why Apple doesn't just give the entire mouse a trackpad surface so you can just two finger scroll where ever. I used to hate trackpads until two-fingered scrolling trackpad came out. Now I think all mice suck because they scroll like crap.

[iBookG4user]

This could be interesting, although if it keeps the shape of the current mighty mouse I'll probably just keep my Logitech VX Revolution because it is so much nicer to use than the mighty mouse.

[zero2dash]

Ah... the mantra of Dell.

My grandma's B&W TV from the 60's still works - it ain't broke. But boy am I sure glad that RCA et al didn't listen to comments like yours.

Yes, I sure was talking about physically working versus being counter productive. How about a better comparison like if RCA made a tv that would only be viewed upside down. Or a cd player that only played discs backwards.

Or in other words, who needs innovation and progress? :rolleyes:

Yeah, because a pointing and clicking device is just crying for change. Why not reinvent toilet paper too!

[Digital Skunk]

This could be interesting, although if it keeps the shape of the current mighty mouse I'll probably just keep my Logitech VX Revolution because it is so much nicer to use than the mighty mouse.

For that price I would keep it even if Apple released a mouse that senses your thoughts and charged itself:D

[wordmunger]

The design is good, its the tech that sucks.

No, it's the design. The technology works fine: if your finger isn't touching the left side of the mouse, then when you click it behaves like a right-click. Works exactly the same every time.

The design is what doesn't work -- it doesn't take actual human behavior into account. It'd be like designing a car with an oval steering wheel.

You might be confusing design with aesthetic appeal. The Mighty Mouse looks better than a lot of other mice. It's just not well-designed.

[johnee]

Nope... That means: (1) I have to have the mouse pad plugged in all the time, might as well get a Wacom tablet. And (2) I won't be able to carry the mouse with me and use it with my MacBook or any laptop or on any other machine unless I have the mouse pad with me.

Great idea... it's been done with the Wacom and other tablets in a much simpler way.:D

ah, I see what you're saying, but if the mouse had batteries, the mousepad would simply charge them. If you left your desktop system, you could still take the mouse with you as the batts would power it.

[BenRoethig]

my opinion: they want to make their designs more intuitive, and they think removing buttons is the way to go. I don't agree with that, but let's see if they come up with an intuitive buttonless mouse.

Also, it gives them headlines... "Apple does something again!" :D

But part of innovation is coming up with products that work as well as the products they replace. I wonder sometimes if Apple actually understands that part. As revolutionary as the original mighty mouse is, it just doesn't work as well as a true multi-button scroll mouse. I can't say the mighty mouse is working to work everytime like my Kensington. With the scroll pad version version, I'm afraid that the Apple engineers are going to again forget the fact that are not working on a r&d project and that people actually have the thing every day.

[notjustjay]

Forget the mouse. How about something you wear on your fingertip that's so unobtrusive you forget it's there.

Nintendo PowerGlove, anyone? :)

[BenRoethig]

I think you're in the wrong thread buddy. :p ;)



Precisely. It never ceases to amaze me how change adverse some people can be. They seem to be comfortable and complacent with no desire to, once again, think outside the box - rather, to quickly dismiss anything which might alter what they are used to. Thank god there are some innovative people out there willing to take risks and push the envelope.

And yes, I realize we're talking about "just a mouse" here, but I am not speaking in the context of this being a simple "mouse upgrade" a la the Mighty Mouse - I see it having the potential to be much more than that, as I have alluded to in my previous posts. What bothers me is when people automatically dismiss something without giving it the attention it deserves and neglect to consider the big picture. :cool:


I'm not advertise to change, the mighty mouse is a great idea in theory. What I am adverse to is if that theory doesn't work all that great in real life like the mighty mouse. The question is whether this is going to be a practical, reliable replacement to the scroll wheel or if this is just one of those things that looks cool enough that 80% reliability is good enough for Apple.

[toneloco2881]

Or in other words, who needs innovation and progress? :rolleyes:



Who says they are trying to re-invent the wheel? Sure, perhaps they refer to this as a mouse, but depending how Apple does it, this could be a completely different type of input method utilizing multi-touch technology and providing 3D capabilities. It's not a matter of re-inventing the wheel, it's a matter of inventing a new, possibly superior method of input. :cool:

And regardless, that's progress - plain and simple. I suppose a few years ago you were lobbying that cell phone makers shouldn't change anything either? "It's just a phone, just let me make calls, that's all it needs to be - don't reinvent the wheel". If they had listened we wouldn't have streaming video, built-in cameras, MP3 capability or SMS - are these all bad innovations? Furthermore, we wouldn't have an iPhone either. :cool:



Is that what people said when the first mouse was released? I remember when that was, and there were all sorts of built-in tutorial programs on how to move the mouse, how to click, how to double-click, etc. So sure, if this is simply another mouse, fine, but if this is a completely new method of input as it has the potential to be, then a learning curve is simply to be expected - and welcomed.

Come on people, think outside the box. :cool:
My post was directed towards the mighty mouse more-so than Apple's development mantra as a whole. I stated myself that I respect Apple's desire to innovate. I just feel that with things like the mighty mouse, ADC connector, etc. sometimes Apple gets a little too ahead of themselves in trying to "think different". I of course value innovation, and appreciate Apple trying to push the envelope, but not when it seems like an answer in search of a problem. The usefulness of this device, if it should ever come to fruition remains to be seen, so of course I'm not going to say Apple should cancel it.

As for the phone comment, I for one am looking forward to the day where the convergence of a multitude of devices results in me having to carry one less device on my person. I plan to be first in line for an iPhone, so you obviously misunderstood the intent of my post.

[MacFly123]

I said before that I don't like the ergonomica of Apple's mice, BUT I think this could be really amazing if it were made to work with multi-touch, the key here is that Apple also designs the operating system and can decide how the mouse will interact with it like if they implemented multi-touch and this mouse with Leopard. WOW

[Object-X]

Ah, don't tell me they are getting rid of the clit-wheel.

[jialuolu]

The things I hate the most about the Mighty Mouse are the squeeze-activated (or whatever) side buttons. I always activated it without meaning to. A mouse with no buttons sounds horrible but at least nothing can be worse than the puck mouse?

[ortuno2k]

Hmmm. I hear the voices of those that wanted to stick to their CD players becasue there were cheaper and worked without a computer. The iPod is never going to succeed, it is useless, give me my big round CD player and clicky buttons, who cares about a digital music player with an annoying scroll wheel. Make me a better CD player.:D

The comment to being on the wrong thread went to me; I posted on the Leopard thread (or so I thought) and it ended up here, don't ask me how.
Or maybe I didn't....hey it's almost time to go home.:cool:

[matthewHUB]

Anyone thought they could use an accellorometer in a mouse, and have the movement of curser denoted purely by the spacial movment of the mouse? This would work in many planes too. We've seen this already being implimented in Wii and PS3 controllers. Would be pretty cool. also, it could mean you could hold the mouse close to your body and be controlling it, not having your hand draped over a desk uncomfortably for hours on end.

my 2 cents

[phaine]

Rather than requiring the user to move his or her hand back and forth on the mouse, why not let the user tilt the mouse side to side or heel to toe? The greater the angle, the faster the tilt.

For more on this idea see: http://stealthisidea.com/articles/tilt-mouse/

[~Shard~]

Yeah, because a pointing and clicking device is just crying for change. Why not reinvent toilet paper too!

Right, so you'd be fine with still using leaves for toilet paper (what's wrong with that after all?) and you'd be completely happy with having to use this with your Mac:

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3699/img0021hg3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

:rolleyes:

Innovation is a good thing. Think outside the box - think different. :cool:

My post was directed towards the mighty mouse more-so than Apple's development mantra as a whole. I stated myself that I respect Apple's desire to innovate. I just feel that with things like the mighty mouse, ADC connector, etc. sometimes Apple gets a little too ahead of themselves in trying to "think different". I of course value innovation, and appreciate Apple trying to push the envelope, but not when it seems like an answer in search of a problem. The usefulness of this device, if it should ever come to fruition remains to be seen, so of course I'm not going to say Apple should cancel it.

As for the phone comment, I for one am looking forward to the day where the convergence of a multitude of devices results in me having to carry one less device on my person. I plan to be first in line for an iPhone, so you obviously misunderstood the intent of my post.

Thanks for the clarification - agreed, and points taken. :)

[Counter]

This will be going on the iPhone, not OSX.

iPhone owns Cupertino.

[Digital Skunk]

No, it's the design. The technology works fine: if your finger isn't touching the left side of the mouse, then when you click it behaves like a right-click. Works exactly the same every time.

The design is what doesn't work -- it doesn't take actual human behavior into account. It'd be like designing a car with an oval steering wheel.

You might be confusing design with aesthetic appeal. The Mighty Mouse looks better than a lot of other mice. It's just not well-designed.

The design of the guts of the mouse then.

[Digital Skunk]

The things I hate the most about the Mighty Mouse are the squeeze-activated (or whatever) side buttons. I always activated it without meaning to. A mouse with no buttons sounds horrible but at least nothing can be worse than the puck mouse?

Nothing can be worse than the first mouse. :D

[Digital Skunk]

Ah, don't tell me they are getting rid of the clit-wheel.

Funny.... I am assuming that this wasn't a typo. :D

[zero2dash]

Right, so you'd be fine with still using leaves for toilet paper (what's wrong with that after all?) and you'd be completely happy with having to use this with your Mac:

http://img90.imageshack.us/img90/3699/img0021hg3.jpg (http://imageshack.us)

:rolleyes:

I think you better contact Apple; they shipped you the wrong mouse.






..........mine's larger. :p

[TheLAD]

I could have sworn that this idea looks familiar... (http://www.maclife.com/forums/post/1244475#p1244475)

Check the post date ;)

[GanleyBurger]

Love Macs... Hate the Apple mouse.

I wish Apple would allow $60 off if you don't want to buy thier mouse and keyboard with a new computer.

[JesterJJZ]

I don't really mind the scroll ball, but I think this could definitely be interesting (especially after seeing the patent pics).


Oh I love my little scroll ball, they just need to make it clogless. :D

[CommodityFetish]

Why all the high-tech sensors apple? I like tactile-feedback - that goes for the touch-sensor buttons on the might mouse too. This is like using a crane to crush a fly...

[~Shard~]

I think you better contact Apple; they shipped you the wrong mouse.

..........mine's larger. :p

Since you've stated that something as basic and simple as a mouse doesn't need to be updated to stay current with future technological advances, such as potentially a 3D UI, I believe this - the very first mice were even bigger, that's correct. Why update it, as you say? It's just an input device after all. I'm sure you must also believe then that Nintendo are complete idiots for developing the Wii controller as well. What a useless innovation, why can't they just leave the input device alone, right? A controller is no different than a mouse... :p

And like you say, why re-invent the wheel? The old stone and wooden wheels should work just fine on your car - no need for silly advancements such as rubber, treads, using air in the tires, etc., right? :rolleyes:

:cool:

[Digital Skunk]

Why all the high-tech sensors apple? I like tactile-feedback - that goes for the touch-sensor buttons on the might mouse too. This is like using a crane to crush a fly...

Yes you are so right... and lets put wires back on everything... I am sure my Mac likes tactile feedback from its internet connection. And I want my game controllers to have wires stretching from across the room. And I want the tactile feedback of vinyl scratchy noise when I play my music. I want to FEEL EVERYTHING!:mad:

:D

[zero2dash]

Since you've stated that something as basic and simple as a mouse doesn't need to be updated to stay current with future technological advances, such as potentially a 3D UI, I believe this - the very first mice were even bigger, that's correct. Why update it, as you say? It's just an input device after all. I'm sure you must also believe then that Nintendo are complete idiots for developing the Wii controller as well. What a useless innovation, why can't they just leave the input device alone, right? A controller is no different than a mouse... :p

Nintendo's track record on redesigning products is much better than Apples, largely due in part to their horrendous mouse design. But please do continue comparing apples to oranges. :rolleyes:

And like you say, why re-invent the wheel? The old stone and wooden wheels should work just fine on your car - no need for silly advancements such as rubber, treads, using air in the tires, etc., right? :rolleyes:

:cool:

Yes, because one has to do with the other. :rolleyes:

[~Shard~]

Nintendo's track record on redesigning products is much better than Apples, largely due in part to their horrendous mouse design. But please do continue comparing apples to oranges. :rolleyes:

Who's talking about Apple, and specifically their track record on redesign? You appear to be confused - my point of discussion is the importance to continue the advancement of input devices, not "what is Apple's redesign track record been like?". In other words, evolve the mouse as we know it today into something much more utilizing multi-touch technology and allowing for interaction with a revolutionary 3D UI. It won't even be a "mouse" afterwards, and something like this patent could be the stepping stones towards that. You have stated you do not want input devices to evolve whereas I have said I think this is a good idea. Let's leave it at that then. :cool:

Yes, because one has to do with the other. :rolleyes:

You were the one who said we shouldn't re-invent the wheel, not I. If one has nothing to do with the other then you shouldn't have brought it up in the first place. :p ;)

Seriously, it should be obvious that I was simply citing those examples to prove a point. In this thread we are reading comments along the lines of, "The mouse is simple, it's fine, don't change it". The same argument could have been made for other devices at a time when they were deemed to be adequate. But once again, I'll go back to one of my initial points - think outside the box and look at the big picture. Try and understand where these types of advancements could potentially lead us and what part it could play in the advancement of technology. Striving to innovate is important, even if you make a few missteps along the way. :cool:

[MonkeyClaw]

This sounds interesting. Presumably some way off actually making it out into the public market though?

As far as I understand, thats how the mouse and pen work for the waccom tablets. We have some in our MMAS lab (30 G5's!!!) and basically the mouse has no removable batteries and it only works on the tablet which functions as the mouse pad. The pen also will only work on the tablet. So as far as I gather from people who know more than I, the mouse is powered via the manner that was just described. Its pretty cool.

[ironring2006]

I know that some of you get this, but I'm surprised that more people haven't commented on this. This is where the multi-touch technology is going, not on a 30 in touch screen display. That old linked post of a trackpad grafted to the surface of the mouse is the best description of this.

This gives you the advantage of both the mouse and the touchpad. I know personally I find the mouse itself is much better as a pointing device than the trackpad, but I love the finger scrolling on my Macbook. Flipping through album covers in iTunes coverflow really does feel like flipping pages in a book. They're not really getting rid of buttons. Think of every discrete point on the surface of the mouse as a button.

Think of choosing a colour wheel by feeling around the surface of the mouse.
Think of adjusting volume in iTunes by "turning" the mouse in your fingers like a dial.
Think of inertial scrolling that you can stop by putting your finger "in" the page.
Think different.

[~Shard~]

I know that some of you get this, but I'm surprised that more people haven't commented on this. This is where the multi-touch technology is going, not on a 30 in touch screen display. That old linked post of a trackpad grafted to the surface of the mouse is the best description of this.

This gives you the advantage of both the mouse and the touchpad. I know personally I find the mouse itself is much better as a pointing device than the trackpad, but I love the finger scrolling on my Macbook. Flipping through album covers in iTunes coverflow really does feel like flipping pages in a book. They're not really getting rid of buttons. Think of every discrete point on the surface of the mouse as a button.

Think of choosing a colour wheel by feeling around the surface of the mouse.
Think of adjusting volume in iTunes by "turning" the mouse in your fingers like a dial.
Think of inertial scrolling that you can stop by putting your finger "in" the page.
Think different.

Thank you for reinforcing what myself and others here are trying to explain to anyone who might be challenged with "thinking different" at times. These are exactly the types of advancements I am referring to. :cool:

[Gasu E.]

Ahoy-hoy! Who needs another useless, new-fangledy gizmo to get lost behind the icebox?

Now leave me to wind my Victrola in peace.:eek:

[Dustman]

Wouldnt it be nice if apple designed a mouse that worked as beautifully as they looked. No denying every mouse that apple has put out is good looking.. but they've all been far from usable. Apple Pro Mouse wasnt bad.. (circa 2002)

[Dustman]

Yes you are so right... and lets put wires back on everything... I am sure my Mac likes tactile feedback from its internet connection. And I want my game controllers to have wires stretching from across the room. And I want the tactile feedback of vinyl scratchy noise when I play my music. I want to FEEL EVERYTHING!:mad:

:D

hahaha, i know a guy with a little white pill that could provide everything u just said.. you'll FEEL EVERYTHING!

[~Shard~]

hahaha, i know a guy with a little white pill that could provide everything u just said.. you'll FEEL EVERYTHING!

Could I get his phone number? :o

And for the record, I'll be phoning him from my rotary dial phone - who needs touch tone, cordless or cell phones anyway? As others have stated in this thread, why re-invent the wheel? They are soooo right... :p :cool:

[TheBobcat]

Could I get his phone number? :o

Kinky.

[bobber205]

As long as it's under 80 dollars, I would buy this so fast my head would spin. ;)

[~Shard~]

Kinky.

It's like you've known me my entire life. :cool:

[Dustman]

@~Shard~

867-5309.. Ask for Jenny ;-) haha

[~Shard~]

@~Shard~

867-5309.. Ask for Jenny ;-) haha

The even more amusing thing is that there are probably people here who don't get that joke... ;) :D

[Dustman]

The even more amusing thing is that there are probably people here who don't get that joke... ;) :D

Betcha got the number on your wall ;-) hahaha

[~Shard~]

Betcha got the number on your wall ;-) hahaha

Actually I do. I tried calling it once, but I lost my nerve. I tried my imagination, but I was disturbed. :cool: