Santa Rosa: really that significant?

[alana22]

Hi, I'm new posting here although I read this site quite a bit. This last week I read through all the "should I wait or not" threads I could find, etc, etc. I generally have a decent idea about the current state of Macs and what possible updates could be around the corner between June and early autumn. My question is this:

I am considering buying a black Macbook this week. The main things I will use it for are taking notes in class, internet/email, listening to music and some occasional graphic stuff with Adobe (nothing too serious). From what I've read now, it seems that nothing coming with Santa Rosa is going to be mindblowingly incredible, right? I mean, everyone was jumping with joy with C2D dropped, but a few months later everyone is saying to wait for Santa Rosa (and of course, when Penryn comes in 08 everyone will be saying not to get a Santa Rosa MB, etc).

Do you see what I'm getting at here? I mean, it's not like a Macbook with 120gig HD, 2g Ram and Santa Rosa is going to last me for the next 3-4 years while a system with the same setup except a 2.0ghz C2D instead of Santa Rosa will only last a few months. In fact, I'd venture to say that the moment the C2D starts to show its age, a system with the same specs and Santa Rosa will also show its age around the same time. I guess what I'm so vexxed about is why this forum is placing such a heavy importance on Santa Rosa when nothing I've read seems to indicate it will be a very significant upgrade over C2D.

I do know about the Leopard situation, and getting a copy of that when it comes out is not a problem. My main question here was regarding Santa Rosa. I see a lot of comments here telling prospective buyers to wait for Santa Rosa or else they will regret it, but I'm just trying to pinpoint what the exact regret would be. Santa Rosa is great and all, it is an upgrade... but is it really that major of an upgrade? Now Penryn, that seems like a major step forward. Santa Rosa though? I don't know. I'm not understanding the hype behind waiting for it?

Thoughts?

Thanks

[killmoms]

Santa Rosa is just a chipset. The "Santa Rosa" MacBooks will still have Core 2 Duos in them, that's the CPU. Santa Rosa has some nice architectural improvements, most notably the Intel X3000 integrated graphics, which are a step up from the GMA950 in the MacBooks at the moment. But from what you've described as being your primary uses for the machine, I don't think you'll find anything about the current MacBook would hold you back in any way. I'd say go for it and enjoy your purchase. :)

[Unspeaked]

Yeah, the difference would be negligible and you'll have a Mac that much sooner - I say pull the trigger!

[iW00t]

The new integrated graphics chipset is definitely worth waiting for.

[CV4]

A lot of people, including myself, are not just waiting for Santa Rosa but the graphics card and cpu updates that should come at the same time as Santa Rosa.

[Zwhaler]

A lot of people, including myself, are not just waiting for Santa Rosa but the graphics card and cpu updates that should come at the same time as Santa Rosa.

When people say "Santa Rosa" it is understood that that means the chipset itself, and the upgraded GPU/CPU that comes along with it. It is not like people are waiting for a chipset, but nothing to plug into it.

[CV4]

When people say "Santa Rosa" it is understood that that means the chipset itself, and the upgraded GPU/CPU that comes along with it. It is not like people are waiting for a chipset, but nothing to plug into it.

considering the thread starter didn't know what Santa Rosa is, thinking it is a new cpu, I thought I would point that out.

[psychofreak]

The integrated graphics now really are dreadful, if you can wait, then wait :)

[alana22]

The integrated graphics now really are dreadful, if you can wait, then wait :)


Aw, well waiting is no fun. It appears news just broke today that Leopard won't be out until October. However, do you think new versions of the MB with Santa Rosa will be out around May (or whenever Santa Rosa is officially released), or do you think Apple would wait until October to release everything at once alongside Leopard? Guesses?

I apprecaite all the responses so far.

I'd wait if a new MB model is due out next month. I won't wait if that model isn't due out til October. That's half a year away.

[BigPrince]

What about the Robson Cache?

[killmoms]

The integrated graphics now are only "dreadful" if you're trying to do 3D. For EVERYTHING the OP wants to do with his computer, they're FINE. I've used a MacBook and for all general tasks, OS X is quite responsive and smooth. Honestly. :rolleyes:

[Sun Baked]

If the RAM limit is 4GB it'll be a pointless upgrade, however if it is 8GB -- the machine will likely last you awhile.

Based on RAM alone, I'd say it is worth the wait to take a chance on 8GB of RAM being supported.

[killmoms]

If the RAM limit is 4GB it'll be a pointless upgrade, however if it is 8GB -- the machine will likely last you awhile.

Based on RAM alone, I'd say it is worth the wait to take a chance on 8GB of RAM being supported.

Doesn't matter if it supports 8GB of RAM... it'll be a WHILE before you start seeing 4GB DDR2 SO-DIMMS, considering there aren't any 4GB full-size DDR2 DIMMs yet.

[alana22]

If the RAM limit is 4GB it'll be a pointless upgrade, however if it is 8GB -- the machine will likely last you awhile.

Based on RAM alone, I'd say it is worth the wait to take a chance on 8GB of RAM being supported.

But I would never need 8g of ram anytime soon, right? Really, I email, download mp3s and occasionally mess around with Adobe. I think for some people 8gigs of ram would be welcomed, but for me? I'm not so sure.

[solvs]

If you can wait 2 months, wait. If they aren't out by WWDC, who knows. They could come out next week, who knows. If you absolutely have to have it now, get a refurb when they're in stock, then upgrade the RAM third party.

[Erasmus]

Robson internal flash emory would be nice, but I haven't heard that Apple will be using it, and IIRC, I seem to remember months ago someone said that they Wouldn't be using it. I mean, it's quite likely they've changed their mind, but whatever. I dunno. I fanyone can confirm or deny this, it'd be great.

It all depends. If you don't intend on playing games on the MB, only foresee needing 2GB RAM, don't care that the CPU *might* get a small speed bump (from 2 to 2.2 eg.), and don't want to risk having to wait until October, or maybe even MWSF, if Apple just decides to wait for Penryn, buy now.

Just 20 more posts until Avatar rights gained!

[Vidd]

I can see the point in waiting for the X3000 if you're doing anything involving 3D work/games but otherwise, with no temptation of Leopard now, there's very little point.

I've waited what has seemed like ages for an iMac update but personally, I'm just going to wait until something seems like it's significant and that doesn't count as Santa Rosa.
If Apple are going to release this new "industrial design" then I'll bite before Leopard but the only other thing would be the Robson cache and not only do I not know how likely that is, I don't know what real practical use it has desktop.

[localoid]

Doesn't matter if it supports 8GB of RAM... it'll be a WHILE before you start seeing 4GB DDR2 SO-DIMMS, considering there aren't any 4GB full-size DDR2 DIMMs yet.

But, you could utilize 4GB (2GB x 2). While most people won't really need 4GB, for some users, the extra RAM can be put to good use.

[localoid]

Santa Rosa is just a chipset. The "Santa Rosa" MacBooks will still have Core 2 Duos in them, that's the CPU. ...

Santa Rosa isn't "just the chipset". The Santa Rosa mobile line introduces a new cpu socket, socket P, vs the current socket M. Faster 800 MT/s front side bus and NAND flash-memory caching (Robson) are a couple of other features, with the possibility of larger L2 caches on some cpus.

Users will see a performance boost over the old Socket M c2d systems, but the really big boost however comes with Montevina (Penryn support and SSE4, etc.)

[CRAZYBUBBA]

June is more likey than may.

If you buy Santa Rosa, the resale value of your laptop will be higher.

Aw, well waiting is no fun. It appears news just broke today that Leopard won't be out until October. However, do you think new versions of the MB with Santa Rosa will be out around May (or whenever Santa Rosa is officially released), or do you think Apple would wait until October to release everything at once alongside Leopard? Guesses?

I apprecaite all the responses so far.

I'd wait if a new MB model is due out next month. I won't wait if that model isn't due out til October. That's half a year away.

[alana22]

Thank you all very much for the responses. It's been very helpful. I've decided that for me personally there is no point in waiting. Blackbook = this weekend. :)

[Deepdale]

I've decided that for me personally there is no point in waiting. Blackbook = this weekend. :)

I, too, have read all replies within this thread. For the needs cited in your OP, you will be well served during the period of ownership by a MB. Technology evolves fairly quickly and a good number of people continue to be unduly influenced by expanded capabilities of an unreleased chip and/or operating system, versus the far more relevant question of what will satisfy all needs now and for the forseeable future.

Playing the waiting game long enough will result in one season after another passing you by as you feel more like a window shopper who is excluded from entering the store. You are doing the right thing ... I wish you well. Let us know your impressions after you purchase it.

[Abstract]

In fact, I'd venture to say that the moment the C2D starts to show its age, a system with the same specs and Santa Rosa will also show its age around the same time.

The only thing I wanted to point out is the fact that I have been saying this here for 5 years, and I have never heard anyone else say it before. Two computers that seem different in spec today will probably be seen as "identical" later. I can't imagine myself thinking that an 800 MHz G3 iBook would run iPhoto a lot faster than a 700 MHz G3 iBook, and yet back in the day, people said they got the faster model to "future-proof" their purchase. Funny. :p

Anyway, I agree 100% with what you said. ;)


Waiting for better integrated graphics? How many 3D apps are you having trouble with? If you play games, that may be a problem. Otherwise, you're like me. There's nothing wrong with the GMA 950 from my seat. I think as long as it is powerful enough to run an external monitor, it's fine. My MacBook runs an external LCD with 1680 x 1080(?) resolution without a hiccup. It's also a Core Duo model, not one of the "fancy" Core 2 Duo models that you're buying. :)

I'd get 2 GB of RAM, though. Get it at a RAM dealer like OWC, maybe NewEgg. :)

If Robson Cache is coming, it's likely to show up in the MacBook Pro.

[eenu]

I'm in the same position i was waiting for SR and Leopard in June on a Macbook but now i am unsure what to do.

I think i will wait until 1st July maximum for the SR MBs and if they aint here by then i will just buy the current ones and then pay the £129 upgrade to Leopard.

[Jarcrew]

I can no longer be bothered waiting, to be honest.

[Vidd]

The only thing I wanted to point out is the fact that I have been saying this here for 5 years, and I have never heard anyone else say it before. Two computers that seem different in spec today will probably be seen as "identical" later. I can't imagine myself thinking that an 800 MHz G3 iBook would run iPhoto a lot faster than a 700 MHz G3 iBook, and yet back in the day, people said they got the faster model to "future-proof" their purchase. Funny. :p


I've never thought about that and it makes sense!
That's another reason why I'm more interested in new features than processor speed.

[agentmouthwash]

I'm playing the waiting game as well.
Was originally waiting for Leopard & Santa Rosa, but now 10.5 is delayed.
I'm not sure what to do. Santa Rosa is supposed to be released in May. Is Apple going to update the laptops soon or just wait until the Fall? Nobody knows. They sure did take their sweet ass time releasing the Core 2 Duo.

[zioxide]

The biggest advantage of Santa Rosa is 64-bit.

[psycoswimmer]

The biggest advantage of Santa Rosa is 64-bit.

Core 2 Duo is 64 bit, as it Leopard.

[jhtrico1850]

Merom the CPU is already 64 bit. Santa Rosa, the platform, just requires Merom (64 bit). Most important things will be 802.11n (faster wireless), NAND (faster boot/app access times), minor performance boosts (from FSB bump from 533 to 800).

[Vidd]

Core 2 Duo is 64 bit, as it Leopard.
Someone said before on the forums that Core 2 Duo is a 64-bit Processor but it's running on a 32-bit platform/chipset.
Was there any validity to that? I can't remember exactly what they said.

[k2k koos]

But I would never need 8g of ram anytime soon, right? Really, I email, download mp3s and occasionally mess around with Adobe. I think for some people 8gigs of ram would be welcomed, but for me? I'm not so sure.

You seem like a down to earth person, that weighs out the options carefully.

For what you want to do, the current Macbook is more than sufficient. Everything you mention you want to do, I do with ease on a 4 year old first generation ALu PB G4, on 1.25Ghz. The Macbook trashes this machine with one core sleeping and the other barely awake.

In other words, if you are techie, wanting the latest and the greatest, hold off a while, but if you just want to be productive with a system that works, and will work for years to come, buy now and enjoy. As said, my PB is still going from strenght to strenght, only needed a new battery recently as the old one wasn't holding it's charge very well anymore. You are likely to get a lot of milleage out of the current Macbook line up.

[zioxide]

Someone said before on the forums that Core 2 Duo is a 64-bit Processor but it's running on a 32-bit platform/chipset.
Was there any validity to that? I can't remember exactly what they said.

That's what I'm talking about. Yes, the Merom processor is a 64-bit processor. But it's currently running on the Centrino Napa platform, which is 32-bit. Therefore, you're limited to 4GB of ram and all of the regular 32-bit limitations. The Santa Rosa chipset (Crestline) is 64-bit, so it's going to give you a maximum ram amount of 16TB. Of course, there's no 8TB ram sticks, so you wont get 16TB of ram, but it will allow for 8 or 16GB of ram in a year or two when we get 4 and 8GB sticks.

In addition to this, you'll get the 2nd generation Merom processors. Most likely for Macbook Pros, this will mean a 2.4GHz and 2.6GHz configuration. Also, you'll get a faster 800MHz fsb.

[Vidd]

That's what I'm talking about. Yes, the Merom processor is a 64-bit processor. But it's currently running on the Centrino Napa platform, which is 32-bit. Therefore, you're limited to 4GB of ram and all of the regular 32-bit limitations.

Ah, thanks for explaining that.

[Sun Baked]

The Santa Rosa chipset (Crestline) is 64-bit, so it's going to give you a maximum ram amount of 16TB. Of course, there's no 8TB ram sticks, so you wont get 16TB of ram, but it will allow for 8 or 16GB of ram in a year or two when we get 4 and 8GB sticks.

You have to look at the physical RAM addressing, which isn't 64-bit in the C2D, it is 36-bit physical memory addressing -- or 64GB Memory.

Of course the chipsets generally are being stepped toward that slowly by Intel.

So Santa Rosa will either be 4GB or 8GB maximum memory when it ships, whatever Intel is likely to support -- which seems more likely to be 8GB, hopefully.

[jhtrico1850]

:confused: Tell me how a chipset can be any "bit". Are you going to upgrade your notebook past 2GB? Then why 64 bit?

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820134414
Well isn't that cheap:rolleyes:

Seriously, even if the CPU is 64bit
1. Notebooks aren't workstations!
2. You don't need it
3. lol

[BigPrince]

I plan on getting 4 gigs so that I can give 2 for parallels and 2 for OS X

[jhtrico1850]

In that case nvm. My argument is targeted to those that say "omg I need 8GB to run Firefox!"