PDA

View Full Version : "The Console War Thread" Experiment has failed.


Haoshiro
Apr 13, 2007, 10:31 AM
I'd like to make a formal post that the "The Console War Thread" experiment has failed and is now only serving to make this forum less and less worthwhile.

It seems any thread that happens to mention both PS3 and 360, or has any post that has any sort of comparison of different consoles gets moved their.

It's poor management that has killed the "experiment" and is ruining the fun and usefulness of this forum.

I guess the ban of MRU was indeed the ill-omen I thought it could be... more of this and I'm leaving too. It's been fun (or used to be)!

killmoms
Apr 13, 2007, 10:33 AM
HOLY DRAMA-MAMA, BATMAN! :rolleyes:

Haoshiro
Apr 13, 2007, 10:36 AM
Indeed.

There have been plenty of complaints about the threads being moved, not just mine. But it's enough to tip me over the edge of annoyance into... activist, or whatever...

It's dumb, and the drama bores me.

Markleshark
Apr 13, 2007, 10:59 AM
I'd have to agree.

Not leaving, but it is becoming a little silly.

mrgreen4242
Apr 13, 2007, 11:07 AM
Sign me up for that petition. I've tried to complain about similar issues before (different thread, same issue, though). I even did it in the Feedback section. It got locked and basically ignored. Then it got deleted! Not just wastelanded, but deleted! Then my numerous PMs about the issue were ignored.

I predict a similar fate for this thread because the current mod staff seems to more interested in having a "clean" looking forum than, I don't know, a useful one.

evilgEEk
Apr 13, 2007, 12:09 PM
Although I agree that the current "managing" of the threads is ridiculous, what else can be done?

The bottom line is that there simply isn't the level of maturity needed to discuss things in a civilized manner.

Whenever a Wii, PS3 or 360 thread is created there is always someone that has to pop in and throw around some very unneccesary comments which then gets everyone riled up.

Personally I don't blame the mods entirely, it's the forum members that can't hold their tongues and play nice.

I didn't realize MRU got banned. Of course I don't know the circumstances, maybe he deserved it, but I can think of quite a few other folks that are perpetual antaganizers that should be banned as well.

yellow
Apr 13, 2007, 12:15 PM
I'm sure the MRU's short lived ban was for a reason between him and the mods/admins. Please remember that a forum is not a democracy. It is a friendly totalitarian regime.

mrgreen4242
Apr 13, 2007, 12:15 PM
Although I agree that the current "managing" of the threads is ridiculous, what else can be done?

The bottom line is that there simply isn't the level of maturity needed to discuss things in a civilized manner.

Whenever a Wii, PS3 or 360 thread is created there is always someone that has to pop in and throw around some very unneccesary comments which then gets everyone riled up.

Personally I don't blame the mods entirely, it's the forum members that can't hold their tongues and play nice.

I didn't realize MRU got banned. Of course I don't know the circumstances, maybe he deserved it, but I can think of quite a few other folks that are perpetual antaganizers that should be banned as well.
Here's a thought: either let users decide if they want to read a thread, and if they do and don't want to read what a particular person who might be "ruining" the thread has to say they can add them to their block list.

If the post is particularly and unnecessarily offensive they can (and have in the past) deleted that one post. Why ruin a ton of otherwise fun discussion by making it IMPOSSIBLE to wade through any of it. (The thread is too long, and the constant random addition of other discussions to it make it very difficult to follow).

If it really bothers some mod, why not create a sub-forum for "console war" discussion, like they did with the politics forum over in the general discussion area? Then they can keep moving the threads, but over to a new location where at least the talk can be continued and not hampered by lumping it into a 1500 post long mess?

mrgreen4242
Apr 13, 2007, 12:18 PM
I'm sure the MRU's short lived ban was for a reason between him and the mods/admins. Please remember that a forum is not a democracy. It is a friendly totalitarian regime.

I saw that ban mentioned and didn't know what it was over, so I did a quick search for any post by MRU in any open forum. Nothing there. Seems they've gone and deleted every post he ever made. Now, sure they can do whatever they want, it's not a democracy as you point out. But, how is removing all his posts helpful? Further, if moderation on a site reaches the point where it bothers users, they will eventually do the only thing they can do: leave. And that sort of defeats the purpose of having a forum.

yellow
Apr 13, 2007, 12:21 PM
I saw that ban mentioned and didn't know what it was over, so I did a quick search for any post by MRU in any open forum. Nothing there. Seems they've gone and deleted every post he ever made. Now, sure they can do whatever they want, it's not a democracy as you point out. But, how is removing all his posts helpful?

Uhhh... forgive me if I'm wrong, but doesn't MRU = MacRumorUser?

Who still has 6,899 posts?

http://forums.macrumors.com/member.php?u=57197

Perhaps I am off my rocker and it's someone else completely. I don't typically stray into the game subforum anymore, as it seems to be reduced to name calling and "fanboism", and I get sucked in all too easily.

grapes911
Apr 13, 2007, 12:23 PM
You are leaving MR because you feel that you can no longer discuss the new consoles anymore? I'm not seeing the logic behind this one. Maybe you should try IGN or Game Informer for your video game needs and MR for your Mac needs. I wouldn't go to IGN to discuss OS X.

There were too many threads about the consoles and there are way to many new ones created everyday. The same things keep being repeated over-and-over. What else could the mods have done?

The mods do a great job around here and I applaud them for the time and effort they put in to the site. Its not like they get paid or anything.

MacNut
Apr 13, 2007, 12:27 PM
There is an easy solution, just get rid of the Games forum. If the kid's can't play nice with their toys you take them away.

mrgreen4242
Apr 13, 2007, 12:33 PM
Uhhh... forgive me if I'm wrong, but doesn't MRU = MacRumorUser?

Who still has 6,899 posts?

http://forums.macrumors.com/member.php?u=57197

Perhaps I am off my rocker and it's someone else completely. I don't typically stray into the game subforum anymore, as it seems to be reduced to name calling and "fanboism", and I get sucked in all too easily.

Do a search for posts by username and get back with me.

You are leaving MR because you feel that you can no longer discuss the new consoles anymore? I'm not seeing the logic behind this one. Maybe you should try IGN or Game Informer for your video game needs and MR for your Mac needs. I wouldn't go to IGN to discuss OS X.

There were too many threads about the consoles and there are way to many new ones created everyday. The same things keep being repeated over-and-over. What else could the mods have done?

The mods do a great job around here and I applaud them for the time and effort they put in to the site. Its not like they get paid or anything.

MR used to have one of the best gaming forums round. Who cares if it's a site intended for Apple stuff, the users are generally intelligent and like games. I've proposed an easy solution if they didn't want lots of console discussion popping up in the main games forum. They could keep moving threads they don't like if they want that way, but the people who want to have those discussion could keep doing so.

The mods do a decent job for the most part, but they used to do much better. It's not just the gaming forum where they have been overusing the move and lock commands. Yes, they are volunteers, and don't HAVE to do this. All the more reason to let the users ignore what they don't want to read, block the users they don't want to hear from, and just get on with things.

BTW, most other gaming sites (like IGN) are much much worse than this, the users can't type, spell, or form complete sentences.

There is an easy solution, just get rid of the Games forum. If the kid's can't play nice with their toys you take them away.

Apparently you many of you don't think there should be a gaming section on this site. So, why are you reading it?

Vidd
Apr 13, 2007, 12:33 PM
Who still has 6,899 posts?


Depending on the forum, the process posts being deleted does not always detract them from the postcount but I'm not sure if that's the case here.

Anyway, relevant to the discussion, I generally feel as if it's best to leave it to the admins and mods to decide this sort of stuff as it's those people who have to deal with actually moderating the forum.

Sky Blue
Apr 13, 2007, 12:38 PM
yeah, it's silly... You can make a post about a current gen console without it being sucked in there. There is a little repetition in some threads, but they could be merged. People post threads, then they're sucked into Console Wars, then some one else comes along and makes another one...

yellow
Apr 13, 2007, 12:40 PM
Do a search for posts by username and get back with me.

???

If his posts were deleted, then he wouldn't have 6,899 total posts.

Go to my link and click on "Find all posts by MacRumorUser"

http://forums.macrumors.com/search.php?searchid=5663316

And finally.. perhaps you're searching incorrectly. Because I came back with quite a few when I did the search the hard way.

So go ahead and get back with me.

;)

Depending on the forum, the process posts being deleted does not always detract them from the postcount but I'm not sure if that's the case here.

It's not. As I found the the link to his user by searching the forums for his posts, and then clicking on his avatar's icon.

For example:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=294894
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=296053

Sky Blue
Apr 13, 2007, 12:44 PM
His posts weren't deleted..he's still here, he posted yesterday.

mrgreen4242
Apr 13, 2007, 12:49 PM
???

If his posts were deleted, then he wouldn't have 6,899 total posts.

Go to my link and click on "Find all posts by MacRumorUser"

http://forums.macrumors.com/search.php?searchid=5663316

And finally.. perhaps you're searching incorrectly. Because I came back with quite a few when I did the search the hard way.

So go ahead and get back with me.

;)



It's not. As I found the the link to his user by searching the forums for his posts, and then clicking on his avatar's icon.

For example:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=294894
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=296053

Must be something goofy, but when I follow your link (and if I do a search forum by username) I get no posts found. When I followed a link to a thread he posted in, though, I was able to do a search by clicking on his name and selecting find more posts and that worked.

I stand corrected.

BlizzardBomb
Apr 13, 2007, 12:54 PM
All the more reason to let the users ignore what they don't want to read, block the users they don't want to hear from, and just get on with things.

BTW, most other gaming sites (like IGN) are much much worse than this, the users can't type, spell, or form complete sentences.

Thanks a lot for stealing the points I was going to make in my post! :D Like it or not, there will always be "fanboys" so it's up to the others to just ignore posts which seem like flamebait.

yellow
Apr 13, 2007, 12:55 PM
Must be something goofy, but when I follow your link (and if I do a search forum by username) I get no posts found.

Weird. You're using the "Advanced Search" feature, right?

Wait.. a Windows user!! Spy! Spy! :)

SpankyPenzaanz
Apr 13, 2007, 12:57 PM
I am waiting fr the irony of this thread being absorbed into the console war thread:D

evilgEEk
Apr 13, 2007, 01:00 PM
If it really bothers some mod, why not create a sub-forum for "console war" discussion, like they did with the politics forum over in the general discussion area? Then they can keep moving the threads, but over to a new location where at least the talk can be continued and not hampered by lumping it into a 1500 post long mess?

I think this is a great idea. :)

Dumping every new thread in to the "Console Wars" thread is ridiculous. It makes it impossible to follow. The threads might as well be deleted instead.

mrgreen4242
Apr 13, 2007, 01:03 PM
Weird. You're using the "Advanced Search" feature, right?

Wait.. a Windows user!! Spy! Spy! :)

Yup, going through the advanced search and I know I'm typing the name in correct because it autocomplete's it for me based on the user database. I'm at work, so stuck on the Windows machine for another 3 or so hours. :(

I think the fact that there's enough unsettlement about the issue that there are people complaining and defending both sides is indication that there is a need for change and the status quo is not acceptable.

I maintain that a Console Gaming, or "Console Wars" (stupid term, I think) sub-forum is in order. It's a good compromise that should make everyone happy - people who don't want to read about the current gen consoles can just stay out, and people who do won't have to wade through 1300 posts.

Worked well in the off-topic/politics forums.

I think this is a great idea. :)

Dumping every new thread in to the "Console Wars" thread is ridiculous. It makes it impossible to follow. The threads might as well be deleted instead.

It's not a new idea, but hey, thanks for saying it's a good one. I'll even volunteer to moderate the sub forum so it won't add any work for existing mods, other than the work they are already doing in moving threads there.

Vidd
Apr 13, 2007, 01:03 PM
It's not. As I found the the link to his user by searching the forums for his posts, and then clicking on his avatar's icon.

For example:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=294894
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=296053

I didn't mean forum as in "Games" or "Buying Tips" - is that what you thought I meant?
I meant as in a per site basis e.g. Macrumors, IGN or possibly forum engine (e.g. phpBB or Invision).
I was just throwing that idea out there. :p

Haoshiro
Apr 13, 2007, 01:05 PM
Because Macs aren't a particularly ripe gaming platform, Mac users are often console owners. It makes sense they use this forum.

And that is the common thing with most of the posters here, they are Mac Users.

Which is one of the reasons I prefer a forum like this over to IGN, etc. It's a community of Mac users, and this is where a good number of them talk about games in general.

Heck, if we didn't talk about forums, what would we have to talk about? This forum would be a ghost town if it was purely restricted to Mac Games, heh.

Lord Blackadder
Apr 13, 2007, 01:24 PM
You are leaving MR because you feel that you can no longer discuss the new consoles anymore? I'm not seeing the logic behind this one. Maybe you should try IGN or Game Informer for your video game needs and MR for your Mac needs. I wouldn't go to IGN to discuss OS X.

I disagree - I come here for Macs first and foremost, but I also shoot my mouth off in the political forum and talk about other interests I have in common with other MR people, like in the Top Gear thread or the Formula 1 threads...I don't see anything wrong with allowing people talking about all kinds of video games.

With that said, the Gaming forum here easily contains the worst behavior on MR, and that includes the political forum...I pop in now and then but some of the threads are unreadable rants about consoles - I'm sure the mods have better things to do than referee that sort of stuff. As long as some people here keep getting into personal squabbles over video game systems, it's going to be seen as a problem.

ReanimationLP
Apr 13, 2007, 01:28 PM
I made a thread about the 20GB being discontinued and it got moved. :confused:

Sure, the guy afterwards made a flamebait comment about "why dont they discontinue the 60GB." But thats not a very good reason to move my thread. My thread was mainly there to discuss how/why they axed it.

Sure, it was obvious to anyone that this has been coming for months. I mean, if you wanted a 20GB, the only real way I saw to get one is in the November launch period. After that, it was all 60GB.

I'll be perfectly honest. I cant STAND fanboys.

gkarris
Apr 13, 2007, 01:30 PM
Is that where all the console threads went to?

Really, I thought no one was posting anymore...

mrgreen4242
Apr 13, 2007, 01:31 PM
I disagree - I come here for Macs first and foremost, but I also shoot my mouth off in the political forum and talk about other interests I have in common with other MR people, like in the Top Gear thread or the Formula 1 threads...I don't see anything wrong with allowing people talking about all kinds of video games.

With that said, the Gaming forum here easily contains the worst behavior on MR, and that includes the political forum...I pop in now and then but some of the threads are unreadable rants about consoles - I'm sure the mods have better things to do than referee that sort of stuff. As long as people here keep getting into personal squabbles over video game systems, it's going to be seen as a problem.

I guess I just don't see it that way. Most of the threads here are pretty mild, especially compared to the game threads on other forums. There's the occasional childish remark but it's mostly pretty decent. Perhaps if they make a forum just for consoles discussion (but not actually game discussion, just talk about the systems themselves) they could post limit it like politics and marketplace are, as it seems most of the rude/unhelpful comments come from newbies.

Haoshiro
Apr 13, 2007, 01:33 PM
I made a thread about the 20GB being discontinued and it got moved. :confused:

Sure, the guy afterwards made a flamebait comment about "why dont they discontinue the 60GB." But thats not a very good reason to move my thread. My thread was mainly there to discuss how/why they axed it.

Sure, it was obvious to anyone that this has been coming for months. I mean, if you wanted a 20GB, the only real way I saw to get one is in the November launch period. After that, it was all 60GB.

I'll be perfectly honest. I cant STAND fanboys.

Yeah, and this makes the forum nearly pointless.

People will start duplicating threads because they don't see a thread on the subject already.

The fact that 20GB PS3s are discontinued could be interesting news to a lot of people, and now it's impossible to find on the forum.

People seemed to like my Game List comparison threads as well, I thought they were useful not only to compare the systems, but so everone knew what was coming out soon.

Moving all these threads into single thread makes the forum a worthless pointless place to be, imho.

Is that where all the console threads went to?

Really, I thought no one was posting anymore...

Yes.

gkarris
Apr 13, 2007, 01:35 PM
I guess I just don't see it that way. Most of the threads here are pretty mild, especially compared to the game threads on other forums. There's the occasional childish remark but it's mostly pretty decent. Perhaps if they make a forum just for consoles discussion (but not actually game discussion, just talk about the systems themselves) they could post limit it like politics and marketplace are, as it seems most of the rude/unhelpful comments come from newbies.

True, I like discussing stuff here.

I went over to the high-def digest website forum to ask question about the whole HD DVD and Blu-ray stuff, and all they did was shoot me down for being "ignorant" having a "cheap home theater system" and not spelling "HD DVD" and "Blu-ray" (these are the PROPER SPELLINGS) right...

mrgreen4242
Apr 13, 2007, 01:35 PM
I made a thread about the 20GB being discontinued and it got moved. :confused:

Sure, the guy afterwards made a flamebait comment about "why dont they discontinue the 60GB." But thats not a very good reason to move my thread. My thread was mainly there to discuss how/why they axed it.

Sure, it was obvious to anyone that this has been coming for months. I mean, if you wanted a 20GB, the only real way I saw to get one is in the November launch period. After that, it was all 60GB.

I'll be perfectly honest. I cant STAND fanboys.

And even the comments like that were pretty clearly jokingly made... they all had ;) and :) with them, etc. I think that I mentioned the 360 in that thread, discussing whether I thought it was a good move for Sony to axe a product that was the closest thing they had price and feature wise to their nearest competitor, which may be why it was moved, but that's still a pretty flimsy argument.

I'm amazed there hasn't been at least SOME kind of reaction from a mod about this yet. Something to say "we hear you and don't care" or "a change is being considered" or even a thread lock/delete/move. I take that back, I'm not surprised as much as I am disappointed.

sikkinixx
Apr 13, 2007, 01:37 PM
maybe its a little overboard, some threads are kinda odd being moved but overall i like it.

It gets a little annoying hearing about how much one system sucks over and over and over :rolleyes:


Besides so many of the topics, like the OP's "360 vs PS3 game Q2 list" are just screaming to turn into flame wars.....

grapes911
Apr 13, 2007, 01:41 PM
I disagree - I come here for Macs first and foremost, but I also shoot my mouth off in the political forum and talk about other interests I have in common with other MR people, like in the Top Gear thread or the Formula 1 threads...I don't see anything wrong with allowing people talking about all kinds of video games.

I agree with you, I talk about other things and I enjoy many other non-Mac topics. But I am under the impression that the OP's primary reason for leaving is because it is difficult to talk about video games. If the political forum closed, would you leave MR all together? You might get your fill of political talk elsewhere, but my guess is that you'd still hang around MR.

Fezwick
Apr 13, 2007, 03:30 PM
This forum would be a ghost town if it was purely restricted to Mac Games, heh.

Na. I'm sure we'd have plenty of "Does X game work on my MacBook?" threads to populate the games forum. ;)

evilgEEk
Apr 13, 2007, 04:03 PM
maybe its a little overboard, some threads are kinda odd being moved but overall i like it.

It gets a little annoying hearing about how much one system sucks over and over and over :rolleyes:


Besides so many of the topics, like the OP's "360 vs PS3 game Q2 list" are just screaming to turn into flame wars.....

I liked it at first too, because there was SO much flaming going around. It was just annoying to click on a thread and see that it had turned in to a 2 year old temper tantrum. But I didn't realize every thread that had anything to do with any sort of comparison was going to be dumped in there. As has already been said, it's nearly impossible to follow because you'll be going along and then all the sudden there's a full page of another thread that got randomly inserted.

Regardless, the bottom line remains that it's the lack of maturity that has caused this. Unfortunately that's always going to be a problem on public forums.

I still think the sub-forum idea is the best one.

mrgreen4242
Apr 13, 2007, 04:17 PM
Na. I'm sure we'd have plenty of "Does X game work on my MacBook?" threads to populate the games forum. ;)

Those will probably be merged into the "Games I have tried on my Macbook" thread, so we can have a whole forum with just 5 or 6 threads of 1500+ posts each.

Seriously, though, can we get a mod to comment on this. Even if it just to say, "**** you're not getting a new forum and we're going to continue merging all console threads into one huge useless pile" or "we are discussing possibilities of changing the policies in the gaming forum, but no decision has been made yet".

Rower_CPU
Apr 13, 2007, 04:25 PM
"We are discussing possibilities of changing the policies in the gaming forum, but no decision has been made yet." ;)

Seriously, though - we are discussing things and will see what can be done that fits the needs of the community, the structure of the forums, and the time/energy of the mods/admins.

mrgreen4242
Apr 13, 2007, 04:54 PM
"We are discussing possibilities of changing the policies in the gaming forum, but no decision has been made yet." ;)

Seriously, though - we are discussing things and will see what can be done that fits the needs of the community, the structure of the forums, and the time/energy of the mods/admins.

I'll reiterate that if there is a sub forum, I'll volunteer to moderate it to minimize the impact on staff time. Thanks for posting, though, it's good to know that you folks recognize there's need for change.

risc
Apr 13, 2007, 05:17 PM
Seriously who cares? How about no moderation in the games forum and we can all fight like we used to? Those were the good old days! :)

Counterfit
Apr 13, 2007, 06:33 PM
Whatever keeps the endless "My thoughts on the Wii/PS3/360" threads off the front page is fine by me.

Vidd
Apr 13, 2007, 06:39 PM
Actually, just from posting in this forum I can see why that huge topic exists and I see the point in it now. :/
I see there's a large potential for decent threads to degrade into petty arguments.

Ja Di ksw
Apr 13, 2007, 06:55 PM
People seemed to like my Game List comparison threads as well, I thought they were useful not only to compare the systems, but so everone knew what was coming out soon.

A comparison of games? I like that idea! Was it of the list in general or per game combo? In other words, was it about the entire catalog for a system, or did you take all similar games and compare those (FPS, RPG, etc)? That sounds like it could be very helpful.

I wonder why I didn't see your thread.

. . .

oh wait . . .

GFLPraxis
Apr 13, 2007, 08:05 PM
I think this is a great idea. :)

Dumping every new thread in to the "Console Wars" thread is ridiculous. It makes it impossible to follow. The threads might as well be deleted instead.


Yes, great idea! My problem with the Console War thread is that people get in to different discussions. I had a thread where we were discussing who had SDTV's and who had HDTV's, but since the OP had sales numbers, it was thrown in there; the discussion was immediately lost due to twenty other ongoing discussions in the same thread.

Throw threads INTACT into another section, not merging, please!

zap2
Apr 13, 2007, 08:24 PM
maybe its a little overboard, some threads are kinda odd being moved but overall i like it.

It gets a little annoying hearing about how much one system sucks over and over and over :rolleyes:.

I agree...there was a point when this part of MR was out of control...now its better. We can still talk about things in the console war thread, and other issue out side of it.


However I do agree that in the future some of the types of recently moved threads, should not be moved.

zero2dash
Apr 14, 2007, 01:46 AM
Is that where all the console threads went to?

Really, I thought no one was posting anymore...

Not that I'm a self-proclaimed anybody, but I don't post here in the games forum much anymore. Most of the voices of reason around here don't either, and we're left with tons of console bashers and fanboys. The "war" thread seems like nothing more than an insult contest to me. It's like a 10 to 1 ratio of bashers to common sense/open minded posters. You guys all post meaningful stuff, I'm not talking directly to any of you. :)

That being said - the mods do what they can. It looks like the game threads get the most action on a daily basis, and they're busy enough patrolling every other forum here as well. I'm not saying they need "help" or can't do their jobs, what I'm saying is it's a hard job and I think they do as best as they can.

I'll be glad when all the mud slinging is over with between some of the lurkers here, but until it is...I'll stay outside of the proverbial window and post less than before so I can stay out of the firefight. :o

ericsthename
Apr 16, 2007, 02:03 PM
I have stood by and watched where this thread went over the last while.

After watching, I too must chime in that the games section over here has become a lot less lively. I agree that oftentimes people chime in with useless comments, however the majority of core users have legitimate and interesting posts.

The other day when the poll thread was posted I was genuinely interested to see how many people had/supported which console, but it only got to a handful of comments before it was closed.

I just find that this board has become less interesting overall because not only are threads being closed and merged, but people are really dumbing-down their language and in some cases (speaking for myself) not posting at all.

I guess it really comes down to, are we going to let a few brainless sheep (aka fanboys) destroy the whole vibe of this forum?

Eric