I miss cheap gas

[poppe]

I miss cheap gas. Today many things went wrong and have set a depression in, and the only thing that has really ever just solved this depression was the days of being able to drive a whole tank screaming wonderful lyrics of sorrow. With gas where I am sitting at 3.20 however I am no longer able to do such a drive.

Now I know I could go listen to music on my laptop or do something of that sort, but there is nothing like that beautiful feeling of going 75 down a 55 and the bass banging the pain out of your heart.

Anyone else feel that way?

[Cassie]

Well, I may not be able to drive yet, but that doesn't mean I don't pay attention to gas prices.:)

Yeah, cheap gas was great.

But I'm waiting for hydrogen powered vehicles to be mass produced.

[poppe]

I watched a lady today bang upon a door like a grizzly bear protecting her cubs from hunters. She pounded screaming and crying. A deep voice yelled back for her to go home. She pleaded to be let in. The door never budged... She screamed at him "How could you be sleeping with her" among other things. She grew silent after wearing herself out. She sat down against the door and began to weep. Her hands covered her face hiding her humiliation. She grew some strength and stood up to the towering white door. Pounding again she began to ramble questions of her lovers fidelities. A womans voice came stinging out from behind the door "Yeah bitch I'm pregnant to. So leave bitch." She paused for a moment catching her pain inside her throat. "Please just let me have my stuff. I just want my stuff so I can leave. Please..." The tears fell crashing to the floor. She stood in her sorrow waiting for her gold purse and cell phone. A few minutes later a door mad an echoing clicking sound. The door slid open a few inches, revealing a hand with a gold purse (the cell phone was inside). The door slammed leaving the woman hollow, in the lonely hallway. She quietly exited the apartment building.

[EricNau]

I watched a lady today bang upon a door like a grizzly bear protecting her cubs from hunters. She pounded screaming and crying. A deep voice yelled back for her to go home. She pleaded to be let in. The door never budged... She screamed at him "How could you be sleeping with her" among other things. She grew silent after wearing herself out. She sat down against the door and began to weep. Her hands covered her face hiding her humiliation. She grew some strength and stood up to the towering white door. Pounding again she began to ramble questions of her lovers fidelities. A womans voice came stinging out from behind the door "Yeah bitch I'm pregnant to. So leave bitch." She paused for a moment catching her pain inside her throat. "Please just let me have my stuff. I just want my stuff so I can leave. Please..." The tears fell crashing to the floor. She stood in her sorrow waiting for her gold purse and cell phone. A few minutes later a door mad an echoing clicking sound. The door slid open a few inches, revealing a hand with a gold purse (the cell phone was inside). The door slammed leaving the woman hollow, in the lonely hallway. She quietly exited the apartment building.
Wow, that's just... wow. I don't even know what to say. :o

That sounds like a scene from a soap opera or movie ...it's just unreal.

[poppe]

Wow, that's just... wow. I don't even know what to say. :o

That sounds like a scene from a soap opera or movie ...it's just unreal.

Tell me about it... I couldn't stop watching and it just kept stabbing a dagger in to my heart as I watched her heart shatter...

[faintember]

I feel your pain. I have had to park my baby (a '66 Pontiac Lemans 4-dr hardtop with a 389) for over a year because of gas prices.

Runs on 93 octane. 22 1/2 gallon tank. 13mpg when I am being "nice" in it and < 11mpg when I drive it as I enjoy most. :(

[Blue Velvet]

I miss clean air...

[devilot]

With gas where I am sitting at 3.20 however I am no longer able to do such a drive.

Anyone else feel that way?Mm hmm. Gas ain't cheap 'round here.

I think this (http://www.gasbuddy.com/gb_gastemperaturemap.aspx) map indicates average price for regular unleaded fuel, i.e the cheapest grade.

72406


My car requires premium unleaded. A listing of the cheapest ones 'round here...

72407

[faintember]

I miss clean air...Was that an unsolicited poke at my car?

[antonwalker]

Well, I may not be able to drive yet, but that doesn't mean I don't pay attention to gas prices.:)

Yeah, cheap gas was great.

But I'm waiting for hydrogen powered vehicles to be mass produced.

But it takes power to make hydrogen fuel, unless they have improved A LOT, hydrogen is not the way to go. It will make us less dependent on oil companies, but I don't think it will work that well to make use less dependet on energy in general. Water powered cares are the future ( a long time in the future).:(

[Blue Velvet]

Was that an unsolicited poke at my car?


No. It was an unsolicited poke at those that think their personal 'right' to a cheap, subsidised fuel with a limited and dwindling supply outweighs the need for an uncontaminated atmosphere for the rest of us... for all of us.

But, since you asked, I'm glad your ancient pre-catalytic car is on blocks, metaphorical or otherwise.

[faintember]

But, since you asked, I'm glad your ancient pre-catalytic car is on blocks, metaphorical or otherwise.I was going to send you a private message, but they are blocked/not allowed. Since that is the case I will respond here:

My car is no worse than a SUV. It passes my states emission guidelines with no problems, catalytic converter or no. If it could run on a alternative fuel I would be more than happy to use it, but alas, it does not.

Looks like it will be pulled out of the garage this week, you know, because of the weather getting nice and all...

[poppe]

No. It was an unsolicited poke at those that think their personal 'right' to a cheap, subsidised fuel with a limited and dwindling supply outweighs the need for an uncontaminated atmosphere for the rest of us... for all of us.

But, since you asked, I'm glad your ancient pre-catalytic car is on blocks, metaphorical or otherwise.

I get what you are saying, but that is not what we are talking about. There are many threads on here about conserving gas and all that stuff if you'd like to share your thoughts there.

This thread is more to find people who miss cheap gas so they could cruise in there car and be lost in the music when things start adding up.

[DZ/015]

Damned if I don't miss cheap gas also. I remember nearly filling a gallon jug for $0.25. I could ride my mini bike all day.

I used to buy gas for my car at $0.75 per gallon. Those were the days.

[furious]

But it takes power to make hydrogen fuel, unless they have improved A LOT, hydrogen is not the way to go. It will make us less dependent on oil companies, but I don't think it will work that well to make use less dependet on energy in general. Water powered cares are the future ( a long time in the future).:(

There is only one realistic source of hydrogen on earth and that is crude oil. Now if we need to use crude oil to produce hydrogen it will be a waste. What I would like to see is that we use crude oil to make plastics. That way crude oil will be semi-renewable. Meaning that we can recycle the plastic (which we currently have/made) and only need the oil to make new plastic.

Now if we really want hydrogen the only pure source is the sun. Good luck. Another is the atmosphere of Jupiter. Have fun.

[furious]

I was going to send you a private message, but they are blocked/not allowed. Since that is the case I will respond here:

My car is no worse than a SUV. It passes my states emission guidelines with no problems, catalytic converter or no. If it could run on a alternative fuel I would be more than happy to use it, but alas, it does not.

Looks like it will be pulled out of the garage this week, you know, because of the weather getting nice and all...

You could run your car on an ethanol blend. They have higher octane. Like a premium unleaded. Now I live in Australia and ethanol blends are cheaper what are they like in the USA?

Ethanol is only an alcohol. Two types of alcohol methanol and ethanol. Methanol is known as wood alcohol. Ethanol is known as grain alcohol. Look up the Wiki.

[DigitalAx]

Damned if I don't miss cheap gas also. I remember nearly filling a gallon jug for $0.25. I could ride my mini bike all day.

I used to buy gas for my car at $0.75 per gallon. Those were the days.

I was filling up at $.90 per gallon as little as 7 years ago. When the prices peaked last year it was 4 times that in my neck of the woods. Wow.

$20 used to last me a long time in my '77 Camaro (8-12 mpg), I switched to a BMW when the prices started to get high (30 mpg).

As for music when driving, I find Chill on Sirius to be extremely relaxing, but of course I've always got that custom "Road Rage" CD handy. ;)

[Queso]

Gas will be cheap again one day. All we need to do is kill off the five billion other humans and the Earth's entire resources will be ours once more.

All we need to do is synthesise a deadly virus that only effects people not living in Europe or North America (but it can kill the Aussies, more Gold medals for us that way), and you'll be able to drive your car to your heart's content :)

Or maybe instead we could form an über-pressure group and force our Governments to kick out the oil lobby and put some real rather than token effort into finding alternative energy sources.

Just a thought.

[DZ/015]

I like how you think, dynamicv. Screw those aussies (MJ), I just want cheap gas.

[furious]

No! Aussies are good Chaps. :p

[faintember]

You could run your car on an ethanol blend. They have higher octane. Like a premium unleaded. Now I live in Australia and ethanol blends are cheaper what are they like in the USA?We can normally get the e10 (10% ethanol) stuff at most gas stations, and of course e85.

The e10 causes the engine to begin spark knocking, but that might be the fuel injection system getting used to it, as I haven't tried it again since.

[DZ/015]

No! Aussies are good Chaps. :p

Mmmmm, the jury is out on this.:)

[Cassie]

Gas will be cheap again one day. All we need to do is kill off the five billion other humans and the Earth's entire resources will be ours once more.

All we need to do is synthesise a deadly virus that only effects people not living in Europe or North America (but it can kill the Aussies, more Gold medals for us that way), and you'll be able to drive your car to your heart's content :)

Or maybe instead we could form an über-pressure group and force our Governments to kick out the oil lobby and put some real rather than token effort into finding alternative energy sources.

Just a thought.
I choose option 2. :)

[Counterfit]

But it takes power to make hydrogen fuel, unless they have improved A LOT, hydrogen is not the way to go. It will make us less dependent on oil companies, but I don't think it will work that well to make use less dependet on energy in general. Water powered cares are the future ( a long time in the future).:(

Moving people takes work, work requires energy. Moving me in my car takes energy, no matter what fuel powers it.






If that seems incoherent, it's because I'm drunk. :)

[MACDRIVE]

This thread is more to find people who miss cheap gas so they could cruise in there car and be lost in the music when things start adding up.

This thread is about driving therapy, only you lack the raw talent to blurt it out like I do. :p

[Rodimus Prime]

Well, I may not be able to drive yet, but that doesn't mean I don't pay attention to gas prices.:)

Yeah, cheap gas was great.

But I'm waiting for hydrogen powered vehicles to be mass produced.

yeah Hydrogen powered cars is all hype and good example of how the media screws up good science and makes it seem like hydrogen is such a great thing.
There are really good sources of hydrogen in this world. One is from oil and natural gas and stripping the hydrogen off those is just a huge waste. It takes a lot of energy and it still uses up the resource and you get even less in return so just use the oil and natural gas where you have a lot more energy to work with.
2nd source is from water and to break the hydrogen off water takes a huge amount of energy and most of our power planets are fossil fuel base so really it would cause more pollution that using current systems. Plus we already are facing a water shortage world wide include almost everyone in the US and in what you think would be water rich areas are really struggling to find enough water. So not only would we need to find more water to make the fuel. We also are going to need more water to cool the power plants that supply the energy.
Hydrogen power cars are a very very bad idea and will never happen.

As for fuel price yeah I hate them as well. I remember filling up my car for less than a dollar a gallon. Hell I remember complain about a 1.60 a gallon being expensive and now I think $2.60 a gallon seems dirt cheap and a very slim chance of seeing that price again. I remember filling up my car from empty to full for less than $15 bucks. I just filled up my car last week and it coasted me $36 bucks and the tank is the same size. I miss the days of cheap gas.

[Queso]

This thread is about driving therapy, only you lack the raw talent to blurt it out like I do. :p
6 quarts of cheap gas?

[bartelby]

I like how American's moan about fuel being expensive when it's actually very cheap compared to, pretty much, the rest of the world.
In the UK it's about $7 a gallon ($7.42 per gallon of Premium)

[DZ/015]

I like how American's moan about fuel being expensive when it's actually very cheap compared to, pretty much, the rest of the world.
In the UK it's about $7 a gallon.

But the majority of that is taxes. Not so here in the states.

[DigitalAx]

I like how American's moan about fuel being expensive when it's actually very cheap compared to, pretty much, the rest of the world.
In the UK it's about $7 a gallon.

While this is true, keep in mind that things are generally more spread out here. The average commute for an American is much more than for a European.

[MACDRIVE]

6 quarts of cheap gas?

I would've just titled the thread Driving Therapy had I started the thread. ;)

[DZ/015]

Just pop in Spectres by BOC and hit the highway. Screw the cost of fuel and relax while you drive way too fast.

[Cassie]

yeah Hydrogen powered cars is all hype and good example of how the media screws up good science and makes it seem like hydrogen is such a great thing.
There are really good sources of hydrogen in this world. One is from oil and natural gas and stripping the hydrogen off those is just a huge waste. It takes a lot of energy and it still uses up the resource and you get even less in return so just use the oil and natural gas where you have a lot more energy to work with.
2nd source is from water and to break the hydrogen off water takes a huge amount of energy and most of our power planets are fossil fuel base so really it would cause more pollution that using current systems. Plus we already are facing a water shortage world wide include almost everyone in the US and in what you think would be water rich areas are really struggling to find enough water. So not only would we need to find more water to make the fuel. We also are going to need more water to cool the power plants that supply the energy.
Hydrogen power cars are a very very bad idea and will never happen.

As for fuel price yeah I hate them as well. I remember filling up my car for less than a dollar a gallon. Hell I remember complain about a 1.60 a gallon being expensive and now I think $2.60 a gallon seems dirt cheap and a very slim chance of seeing that price again. I remember filling up my car from empty to full for less than $15 bucks. I just filled up my car last week and it coasted me $36 bucks and the tank is the same size. I miss the days of cheap gas.

Good points, but deriving it from water; don't hydrogen powered cars produce water as a bi-product?

[bartelby]

While this is true, keep in mind that things are generally more spread out here. The average commute for an American is much more than for a European.

Are you sure?

European commutes
Italy: 23 minutes
Spain: 33 minutes
France: 36 minutes
EU average: 38 minutes
Netherlands: 43 minutes
Germany: 44 minutes
UK: 45 minutes

US:
Commute Time: Average 26 minutes

So if Americans cover larger distances in a shorter time then the average speed is higher and likely more fuel efficient.

[dops7107]

Are you sure?

European commutes

Netherlands: 43 minutes


I suspect cycling slows their commute down! Can't get more fuel-efficient than that.

To OP: I get your point, driving is a way to get some release. I think you just need to find another, cheaper, more socially acceptable way to get that release! ;)

[DZ/015]

My commute is 57 miles one way. Just about an hour without traffic. Usually more. Traffic into and out of Boston sucks.

[DigitalAx]

Are you sure?

European commutes
Italy: 23 minutes
Spain: 33 minutes
France: 36 minutes
EU average: 38 minutes
Netherlands: 43 minutes
Germany: 44 minutes
UK: 45 minutes

US:
Commute Time: Average 26 minutes

So if Americans cover larger distances in a shorter time then the average speed is higher and likely more fuel efficient.

You're assuming distance = time. You spend more time in traffic.

I'll freely admit if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure our overall travel costs are more.

Edit: missed your last line. There's other variables there too though, like overall fuel efficiency of the average cars in each area.

[bartelby]

You're assuming distance = time. You spend more time in traffic.

I'll freely admit if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure our overall travel costs are more.

Well, fuel in the US is about 1/2 the cost it is in the UK, but they travel under double the distance so don't quite come to the same cost.

[DigitalAx]

Well, fuel in the US is about 1/2 the cost it is in the UK, but they travel under double the distance so don't quite come to the same cost.

Not disputing that dude.

Just saying you've got to take it all into consideration, it's not quite as bad as it seems on the surface, but yes relatively speaking, you're getting screwed. I won't debate that.

[poppe]

My roommate from london can not believe the distance we all have to travel for school, groceries, and junk.

[bartelby]

Not disputing that dude.

Just saying you've got to take it all into consideration, it's not quite as bad as it seems on the surface, but yes relatively speaking, you're getting screwed. I won't debate that.

:)
If public transport didn't suck, cost more than running a car and take 5 times as long I'd use it.

[DigitalAx]

the average speed is higher and likely more fuel efficient.

BTW, higher speed = less fuel efficient.

Edit: found an interesting article - Average American cars gets 21.6 mpg, and the average European car gets 31.6 mpg.

http://www.csmonitor.com/2005/0826/p01s03-woeu.html

[bartelby]

BTW, higher speed = less fuel efficient.

55mph is more fuel efficient than 20mph.
Quoted efficiency figures from car manufacturers are usually calculated using 55mph.

[Queso]

BTW, higher speed = less fuel efficient.
Not always. Crawling in a jam takes a lot more fuel to cover the same distance.

[bartelby]

Not always. Crawling in a jam takes a lot more fuel to cover the same distance.

Exactly.
If you can see instant consumption figures as you're driving watch what happens when you're crawling along in traffic.

[DigitalAx]

55mph is more fuel efficient than 20mph.
Quoted efficiency figures from car manufacturers are usually calculated using 55mph.

Woah. I underestimated just how bad your traffic is. You drive 20mph to work? I thought we were talking about the difference of 45 - 55 mph (optimal) vs 70 mph.

[bartelby]

Woah. I underestimated just how bad your traffic is. You drive 20mph to work? I thought we were talking about the difference of 45 - 55 mph (optimal) vs 70 mph.

For me personally I have a nice easy drive to work. It can take between 10 - 15 minutes as I start work at 7 am.
But for a huge number of people the greater proportion of their commute is done at very low speeds.

[MACDRIVE]

Don't forget the people that live in San Diego and commute to work in Los Angeles.

If I'm not mistaken, that's about a 1.5 hour drive each way.

[bartelby]

Don't forget the people that live in San Diego and commute to work to Los Angeles.

If I'm not mistaken, that's about a 1.5 hour drive each way.

And there are people who commute from Coventry to London. That's about 2.5 hours each way.

[MACDRIVE]

And there are people who commute from Coventry to London. That's about 2.5 hours each way.

Is that all in one car? I'd want to have me a nice British Jaguar with all the trimmings.

[bartelby]

Is that all in one car? I'd want to have me a nice British Jaguar with all the trimmings.

A british Jag?
I see them as an American manufacturer now.
I'm glad Aston Martin is British again.

[fotografica]

Are you sure?


US:
Commute Time: Average 26 minutes


Where's that figure coming from?Try getting into Boston on 93 South on any weekday,lol..ALOT longer than 26 minutes :)...

[bartelby]

Where's that figure coming from?Try getting into Boston on 93 South on any weekday,lol..ALOT longer than 26 minutes :)...


Here (http://abcnews.go.com/Technology/Traffic/story?id=485098&page=1)

Remember it's an average.

[Mord]

I wish I had the memory of being able to cycle through a city without getting my throat all clogged up with crap to miss, but alas I was born in 88, it's always been like this.

[xlii]

When I first started driving 1969... gas was 28 cents a gallon. When I was in the Army (1972-1973) and was based in the Panama Canal Zone, gas down there was 16 cents a gallon. In them days gas was cheap. When I took a trip (10,000 miles) around the US in the summer of 1975 gas was 45 cents a gallon.

[ErikCLDR]

Well if anyone is ever in northern Connecticut, I know where you can pick up gas for $1 a gallon for 89 octane.

I went into the Cumberland Farms gas station in my town. The clerk was busy playing around in the cash drawer. I handed him a 50 dollar bill and ask for $30 of gas on pump 9. He immediately gave me $20 back, I put it in my pocket, and he shut the cash drawer. He typed into the computer and asked if I wanted a receipt. I said sure and he printed it off and gave me $20 back.

I walked out the door of the gas station and started pumping. It was then that I realized he gave me $20 back twice. $10 for ~10 of gas. Not a bad deal aye.

I felt bad knowingly ripping off the gas station, but I have a few grudges against them. 1) They built this huge unsightly gas station in my quaint little town 2) Oil companies are evil and will take as much money as possible as they can even though they already have gazillions of dollars and 3) I was with my friend whos uncle is a VP for Gulf Oil (I don't really know what that has to do with anything, but w/e)

I did make a good donation to the Connecticut Children's Hospital or something with the money that I had *saved*

[ErikCLDR]

A british Jag?
I see them as an American manufacturer now.
I'm glad Aston Martin is British again.

Nahh, I think Jag is still british. If they were American their reliability would not be rock bottom with Land Rover.

[DigitalAx]

A british Jag?
I see them as an American manufacturer now.
I'm glad Aston Martin is British again.

It may be owned by Ford, but they're still manufactured in Birmingham and Liverpool. They're anything but standard or popular here. I may see one a week.

[furcalchick]

you think this means more people will move to the city now?

and yeah, i miss cheap gas too...it meant alot more road trips than we make now.

[skinnylegs]

Yeah......I miss cheap gas.....especially since I have a company that requires keeping 4 gas-guzzling vehicles on the road each and every day. :mad:

Hell.....I remember when gas stations actually gave you something like a glass when you filled up your tank and gas was well under a buck a gallon.

[MalcolmJID]

A newspaper here yesterday said that over the summer, the price of petrol is likely to reach £4.55/gallon ($8.941 according to my widget).

It's shocking, and then I see a lot of Americans moaning about the price of fuel yet still seem to use cars that do <25mpg. Why do you insist on having such cars?

OK, I'm 18, and I only have a small car (Ford Fiesta). But I get 40+mpg. Surely if every car in the world had a mpg increase of say 5, then the amount of fuel needed would fall, and it would seem cheaper. There's also less of a strain on fuel resources.

[Queso]

OK, I'm 18, and I only have a small car (Ford Fiesta). But I get 40+mpg. Surely if every car in the world had a mpg increase of say 5, then the amount of fuel needed would fall, and it would seem cheaper. There's also less of a strain on fuel resources.
That's finally beginning to happen. Sales of big engined cars in Europe fell dramatically during 2006 after several successive growth years, pretty much all thanks to the increasing fuel costs associated with running such an engine. The US will catch us up on that at some point.

[poppe]

A newspaper here yesterday said that over the summer, the price of petrol is likely to reach £4.55/gallon ($8.941 according to my widget).

It's shocking, and then I see a lot of Americans moaning about the price of fuel yet still seem to use cars that do <25mpg. Why do you insist on having such cars?

OK, I'm 18, and I only have a small car (Ford Fiesta). But I get 40+mpg. Surely if every car in the world had a mpg increase of say 5, then the amount of fuel needed would fall, and it would seem cheaper. There's also less of a strain on fuel resources.

Well I got $300 to my name and a kick in the ass so if you got $ 15,000 let me know and I'll gladly go get me a used prius and you won't hear me too sad about gas anymore. Just let me know when you want to wire me that money

[IJ Reilly]

I remember joyriding. I think I must have given it up right around the time the price of gasoline crossed $0.70 a gallon -- probably in 1979.

BTW, if you don't like the cost of fuel, drive less, and don't speed. I can hardly believe the number of people who still careen down the freeway at 80 MPH and more. Instead of paying $3.20 a gallon, they're effectively paying closer to $4.00 -- voluntarily! So no wonder the price keeps going up and up... :rolleyes:

[adk]

It's shocking, and then I see a lot of Americans moaning about the price of fuel yet still seem to use cars that do <25mpg. Why do you insist on having such cars?



If you've ever been rear-ended by a soccer mom in a suburban, you would understand.

That said, I drive a honda civic and I'm loving my 36 mpg right now.

[Applespider]

My roommate from london can not believe the distance we all have to travel for school, groceries, and junk.

Distance is all relative. If you live in the central zone of a town or city, you don't generally have to travel far for anything - but you pay more for living there. If you live in the suburbs, you generally have to travel a little further for work and shopping but you're more likely to have some greenery, a bigger property. If you live out in the country, then yes, you have to go a long way for everything - but that's true regardless of the country you are in.

I don't think anyone begrudges those who live rurally their cars - and they lose out doubly with both lower salaries and generally higher fuel costs.

But, there's a question whether those who live in an urban environment really need a car or whether it's a luxury. Less cars and perhaps there might be more spaces to build places to chill or zone out without the need to drive.

[quagmire]

Cheap gas was nice, but we need to stop using fossil fuels. Unlike what the gov't believes( regulate the car manufactures to death to get cars cleaner and reduce our demand on foreign oil), what will get us off fossil fuels faster is what Bob Lutz says, higher gas prices. The higher the cost to the American consumer has to pay for gas, the more they will demand for a cheaper alternative. Look at what happened when gas hit $3 a gallon for the first time. People dumped their SUV's and went to buy Prius's( although their excuse for buying it is to save the environment is funny. It's all about saving money for them. Putting out less Carbon monoxide is an added bonus).

We all should know the last user of fossil fuels will be power plants. It will be years before they will switch to a new source of energy to produce electricity( sorry, I don't think Nuclear energy is the answer. We'll just be trading air pollution to land pollution with the waste materials). We can use the power plants as refineries for hydrogen as there is a process that can use the waste created by the power plants to get hydrogen. Hydrogen is the ideal fuel. But, the question is will it ever get practical enough to use? We haven't seen that yet.

[shecky]

after i move into my new place in June i get the best gas prices of all: $0.00/gallon; since i can use public transit or more likely a bike to get to and from work. :) i cannot wait. especially since starting the car, driving for 2 miles and turning it off equates to some ridiculously low MPG. i'm more than happy to take the bus or bike. plus i will no longer pay $200/month just to park the car.

[it5five]

after i move into my new place in June i get the best gas prices of all: $0.00/gallon; since i can use public transit or more likely a bike to get to and from work. :) i cannot wait. especially since starting the car, driving for 2 miles and turning it off equates to some ridiculously low MPG. i'm more than happy to take the bus or bike. plus i will no longer pay $200/month just to park the car.

I'm in the same situation. I move in a month, and the location is great. School is about a 3 minute bike ride, work is about a 10 minute bike ride, and it's near a bus line if I ever need to go to the library or something. I'm really really excited. I hate cars and everything about them. Gas, tires, oil changes, batteries... everything is so expensive.

[shecky]

i agree; as much my testosterone makes me like/lust after some cars overall i find them to be a huge pain in the ass and i would be happy to never have to deal with one. between insurance, maintenance, upkeep, gas and purchase price its one big expense after another. i would rather not have a car and use Zipcar or something like it when i need to; unfortunately Providence is not contained enough to live quite like that yet. give it another 50 years :)

[devilot]

...I see a lot of Americans moaning about the price of fuel yet still seem to use cars that do <25mpg. Why do you insist on having such cars?Believe me, I'd love a little diesel car and I'd convert it to biodiesel, too... If it weren't for CA's damned emissions laws making it terribly difficult to do.

FYI, we don't get the nifty cars that you Europeans do. For whatever reason, the masses don't go for it. I'd love a Lupo or Polo. Or SMART. Or MINI one. I would, I truly would.

[adk]

Hydrogen is the ideal fuel.

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/airship/hindenburg.jpg

[Rodimus Prime]

Cheap gas was nice, but we need to stop using fossil fuels. Unlike what the gov't believes( regulate the car manufactures to death to get cars cleaner and reduce our demand on foreign oil), what will get us off fossil fuels faster is what Bob Lutz says, higher gas prices. The higher the cost to the American consumer has to pay for gas, the more they will demand for a cheaper alternative. Look at what happened when gas hit $3 a gallon for the first time. People dumped their SUV's and went to buy Prius's( although their excuse for buying it is to save the environment is funny. It's all about saving money for them. Putting out less Carbon monoxide is an added bonus).

We all should know the last user of fossil fuels will be power plants. It will be years before they will switch to a new source of energy to produce electricity( sorry, I don't think Nuclear energy is the answer. We'll just be trading air pollution to land pollution with the waste materials). We can use the power plants as refineries for hydrogen as there is a process that can use the waste created by the power plants to get hydrogen. Hydrogen is the ideal fuel. But, the question is will it ever get practical enough to use? We haven't seen that yet.

as I point out in my early post hydrogen is not an ideal fuel and is worse that fossil fuels. Reason being is to get it where you want it from it has to come from water and we already are fasting water source problems world wide. Just to supple the US needs for cars that are hydrogen power we would need 7 trillion gallons of fresh water a year. That does not include the extra water that would be needed to cool the power plants to produce it. Nor the fact that we would be making more pollution due to the increase power demand.

On top of that we have no effect way of storing hydrogen in cars. Liquid i not an option so it hi pressure only and well to get cars up to the range they have now the tanks would have to impractical huge size. On top of that hydrogen will leak out. It very difficult to make the tanks seal well enough to prevent all of it escape. It is jut to small of an element so you have more loses there.
Hydrogen power is pure hype. We do not have the resource to produce it on a scale we need.
Taking it from fossil fuels is impractical because all it would do is increase our need for it and it a huge waste of energy that could be used from the fossil fuel.


Hydrogen power is pure hype and is a very impractical fuel.

[furcalchick]

I hate cars and everything about them. Gas, tires, oil changes, batteries... everything is so expensive.

i agree; as much my testosterone makes me like/lust after some cars overall i find them to be a huge pain in the ass and i would be happy to never have to deal with one. between insurance, maintenance, upkeep, gas and purchase price its one big expense after another. i would rather not have a car and use Zipcar or something like it when i need to; unfortunately Providence is not contained enough to live quite like that yet. give it another 50 years :)

i agree with this. i'm 21 and have never owned a car or had a driver's license (although i may just for id and future rent-a-car reasons), and i have little desire to own a car. the only reason i thought about owning a car was because of how inconvenient and near impossible it is to live in south florida without one. public transportation is non existent in my town, and forget about biking around here. when i was in high school, all of my friends had cars and stuff, but i didn't care, as i was in san diego at the time and also i felt cars were just a huge pain in the butt to take care of, and i don't like handling two ton bricks. i feel alot better on my bike. and with the cost of owning a car just very annoying, i'm probably thinking about moving out to the city to escape those costs, and don't forget the social costs and everything else.

enough from me.

[Rodimus Prime]

i agree with this. i'm 21 and have never owned a car or had a driver's license (although i may just for id and future rent-a-car reasons), and i have little desire to own a car. the only reason i thought about owning a car was because of how inconvenient and near impossible it is to live in south florida without one. public transportation is non existent in my town, and forget about biking around here. when i was in high school, all of my friends had cars and stuff, but i didn't care, as i was in san diego at the time and also i felt cars were just a huge pain in the butt to take care of, and i don't like handling two ton bricks. i feel alot better on my bike. and with the cost of owning a car just very annoying, i'm probably thinking about moving out to the city to escape those costs, and don't forget the social costs and everything else.

enough from me.
You know you can go to the State DMV and just get a Id card. It not good for a DL but it is a legal id and legally you need to have one of those to do anything that require an id.

[fotografica]

you think this means more people will move to the city now?

and yeah, i miss cheap gas too...it meant alot more road trips than we make now.

I would say that's doubful as the cost of living in major urban areas/cities is out of control.It practically negates the cost of not having an automobile.

I also miss cheap gas as well.It's pretty bad when you're excited about seeing $2.55 gallon for unleaded regular :( And it's not even Memorial Day yet. One hurricane going thru the gulf,and the oil companies will use that as an excuse to really boost up prices.I'm tired of having to grab my ankles every time I gas up..

[FrankBlack]

Yeah......I miss cheap gas.....especially since I have a company that requires keeping 4 gas-guzzling vehicles on the road each and every day. :mad:

Hell.....I remember when gas stations actually gave you something like a glass when you filled up your tank and gas was well under a buck a gallon.

I remember free road maps at gas stations. :eek:

[quagmire]

http://www.aerospaceweb.org/question/history/airship/hindenburg.jpg

How about gas? Like that won't explode when there is a spark........ As I said hydrogen is the ideal fuel. But, I am not saying it will be the answer and become the new fuel for our cars. There is the storage issue and how to get hydrogen without using fossil fuels, etc. You may think electric cars might be the answer. Plug them into your house. Where does your energy come from? Coal powered power plants. They're issues of all the alternative energy sources. Solar powered you say, how about when it is cloudy?

[it5five]

Solar powered you say, how about when it is cloudy?

I hate hearing that argument, along with the "the sun is only out half the day" argument.

The amount of solar power that would be drawn in would far exceed the amount being used (depending on where the solar panels are placed). That excess energy is saved in batteries that can be used when people aren't able to draw power directly from the solar panels (like when it is cloudy or when it is dark). Obviously, solar power wouldn't be the ideal form of energy in certain places like the far far north, where in the winter there may be only a few hours of sunlight, but for places with a lot of sun, like Arizona for example, solar power makes so much sense it is ridiculous it isn't being utilized. We have over 300 sunny days a year, yet HOA's block home-owners from placing solar panels on their roofs, and there has been little effort to promote the use of solar panels from the local and state governments.

[Rodimus Prime]

I would say that's doubful as the cost of living in major urban areas/cities is out of control.It practically negates the cost of not having an automobile.

I also miss cheap gas as well.It's pretty bad when you're excited about seeing $2.55 gallon for unleaded regular :( And it's not even Memorial Day yet. One hurricane going thru the gulf,and the oil companies will use that as an excuse to really boost up prices.I'm tired of having to grab my ankles every time I gas up..

Umm do not blame the oil companies for that part. It all about supply and demand.
As it stand the US is running over 90% of it production capabilities for gas. a 10% extra capacity is not much. Now if a a hurricane comes though and hits the right areas the US demand for gas exceeds what it can produce and now gas is going to shoot up in price. 2 years ago when the gulf was pounded by 2 large hurricanes we are talking about over 30% of the nations production of gas was off line for a least 2 weeks since a lot of plants on the gulf coast shut them in case their area was going to be hit. It takes a while to shut down a plant correctly and at least a week to get one back up and running. This is not including the damage to the plants that did get hit which will stay off line even longer.

Oil right now is very expensive to buy and you are right the oil companies are passing alone that increase cost to them to the consumer. Also I might like to point out that the people in the US do not have much room to complain because the ones crying the loudest are the ones driving gas guzzlers that get less than 20 mpg. They are a huge part of the reason gas is so high in price. They increase their own demand for it and wonder why it is more expensive. To it off people will make multiple small trips wasting more fuel or driving a distance that could easily be walked or bike. My college is a good example of this.
The parking lot is full of cars of people who live less than 5 miles from campus. Hell a lot of people who drive to school could get to class in the same amount of time that they could bike once you factor in the time it takes to find a parking spot and then walk to class. I figure this out when I started biking to my afternoon classes that I was getting to class in about the same amount of time as it took me to drive. Hell a lot of people will drive home if they are close between their class I know I do because it is easy but I do try to bike to my afternoon classes depending on the weather (wet and/or cold there is no way in hell I am going to bike to class and the cold part why I have yet to bike to my morning classes)

You know if we all drove more fuel efficient cars the price of gas would go down since the demand for it would also great be reduced but most people just waste gas by driving cars that get less than 20 mpg and hardly any one drives a car than can even get over 27mpg at highway. My car pulls 24mpg city and 30mpg highway and yeah it could be better but at the same time I knew when I got the car I was giving up some gas mileage for a little sportier car.

[it5five]

Umm do not blame the oil companies for that part. It all about supply and demand.


Really? So we shouldn't blame the oil companies when ExxonMobil is making tens of billions of dollars a year, all the while completely screwing over the consumer with insanely high prices at the pump. Who want's to bet that next year ExxonMobil will once again have record high income, and the gas prices will also have a new record high? Who also wants to bet that the increase in gas prices will be due to "refining issues" or "supply line problems"; yeah right :rolleyes:

[quagmire]

I hate hearing that argument, along with the "the sun is only out half the day" argument.

The amount of solar power that would be drawn in would far exceed the amount being used (depending on where the solar panels are placed). That excess energy is saved in batteries that can be used when people aren't able to draw power directly from the solar panels (like when it is cloudy or when it is dark). Obviously, solar power wouldn't be the ideal form of energy in certain places like the far far north, where in the winter there may be only a few hours of sunlight, but for places with a lot of sun, like Arizona for example, solar power makes so much sense it is ridiculous it isn't being utilized. We have over 300 sunny days a year, yet HOA's block home-owners from placing solar panels on their roofs, and there has been little effort to promote the use of solar panels from the local and state governments.

Yes, I know that the excess energy could be put into batteries. But, how far can the batteries last? It might last just for the commute from home to work and back, but what happens on long trips? Cloudy all day and you're driving for 2 days down to Florida. Lets say the batteries will last 300 miles. When the batteries are almost dead what am I supposed to do? Pull over and plug in for what? 4 hours and let the batteries recharge? While a trip like that would be rare, Americans won't go for that because of the limits of batteries and how long they will have to recharge. Maybe in the future they can recharge in 2 minutes, but who knows. As of now solar energy is less practical then hydrogen, Ethanol, BioDiesel, etc. As I said all of these forms of alternative energy sources have there flaws. Solar isn't exempt from it.

[fotografica]

Umm do not blame the oil companies for that part. It all about supply and demand.


Really?I've been hearing about alternative fuel sources for as long as I can remember,which seems to be the Ford/Carter era.And everytime some alternative energy initiative comes up,it gets stonewalled and buried by the oil co's multimillion dollar lobbyists.During Carter,it was all about corn being turned into ethanol. An alternative to gasoline..How did that work out?The oil co's (and big business for that matter) have far more clout and influence in Washington than most people realize or want to acknowledge. Regardless of which party is in 1600 Pennsylvania Ave,the White House has always been in bed with the oil industry...

[SteveG4Cube]

Thank Bush for reverting all the clean air policies Clinton put into place. It's the big factories and other things that are the major cause of pollution, not cars. And when it comes to cars, the millions of single car commuters sitting and idling in rush hour BS every day are causing ALOT more pollution than a niche of car collectors who like to take their pre-emissions rolling memorabilia out for a spin once a week. :rolleyes:

As for gas prices, try driving a car that only runs on 100+ octane race gas at $7+ a gallon ;)

[ryannel2003]

I miss cheap gas. Today many things went wrong and have set a depression in, and the only thing that has really ever just solved this depression was the days of being able to drive a whole tank screaming wonderful lyrics of sorrow. With gas where I am sitting at 3.20 however I am no longer able to do such a drive.

Now I know I could go listen to music on my laptop or do something of that sort, but there is nothing like that beautiful feeling of going 75 down a 55 and the bass banging the pain out of your heart.

Anyone else feel that way?

I'm the same way when it comes to driving... I will sometimes get in the car and just drive around. Might even put 100 miles on my car not going anywhere special. I have a pretty fuel efficient car (2000 Toyota Camry LE) but even though I get 25MPG, it still costs about $50.00 to fill the car up. I do have a part-time job, but I find it hard to balance gas, going out with my friends, and buying my computer stuff all at the same time. Will just have to stop driving less to conserve more gas :(

[DigitalAx]

Really?I've been hearing about alternative fuel sources for as long as I can remember,which seems to be the Ford/Carter era.And everytime some alternative energy initiative comes up,it gets stonewalled and buried by the oil co's multimillion dollar lobbyists.During Carter,it was all about corn being turned into ethanol. An alternative to gasoline..How did that work out?The oil co's (and big business for that matter) have far more clout and influence in Washington than most people realize or want to acknowledge. Regardless of which party is in 1600 Pennsylvania Ave,the White House has always been in bed with the oil industry...

Actually the corn thing went away because of the feasibility. The amount of corn you'd have to grow to begin seriously considering it as a fuel source was ridiculously high, not to mention that the processing of the corn also released harmful pollutants into the air.

Really? So we shouldn't blame the oil companies when ExxonMobil is making tens of billions of dollars a year, all the while completely screwing over the consumer with insanely high prices at the pump.

No, we shouldn't. You're blaming a company for being profitable? If every person in the world wanted a Mac, I don't think Apple could keep up with the 6 billion unit demand, thus costs for consumers and profits for the companies would go up.

That's basic business, not conspiracy theory.

[satty]

... so enjoy the cheap gas/petrol!

I reduced my driving to 350 km this year so far (less than 20 litres altogether) and very soon I will be a car-less person. :)

Soon many people are going to realise how much our food supply depends on oil and gas. The food prices will go through the roof in the next couple of years.

And alternatives like ethanol will put even more pressure on food prices.

[fotografica]

I've never seen an instance where an increase in the raw material cost results in an instantaneous increase in it's primary product.Yet on the other side,when the cost of raw crude goes down,it takes several days to see a drop at the pump. Go figure. And it's always ironic how that when OPEC decides to reduce output there is suddenly an oil shortage..That's not a manipulated market?

[adk]

I've never seen an instance where an increase in the raw material cost results in an instantaneous increase in it's primary product.Yet on the other side,when the cost of raw crude goes down,it takes several days to see a drop at the pump. Go figure. And it's always ironic how that when OPEC decides to reduce output there is suddenly an oil shortage..That's not a manipulated market?

OPEC is a self-admitted cartel. There has never been any debate as to whether or not the middle eastern oil market is manipulated.

[Cassie]

How about we forget gas and all this crap, and go back to horse-drawn carraiges?

Seemed to work fine for a couple hundred years...;)

[840quadra]

I like it! I want to see less trucks, SUVs, and van's that people don't really need.

While I understand that even SUV's are getting better fuel milage, not everyone needs a MER (Massive Earth Roamer) just to drive back and forth to work every day, with just them, their wallet (or purse), and a cup of coffee!

If your vehicle cannot make it over 450 miles on less than 15 gallons of fuel, it shouldn't be a daily driver, period.

I love cars, and I love technology. We have the technology to make damn powerful cars that get good fuel economy, so why the hell do we have so many V8 powered hulks that can't even get 30 MPG in a year round useable vehicle!?!?

[fotografica]

OPEC is a self-admitted cartel. There has never been any debate as to whether or not the middle eastern oil market is manipulated.

Which in turn affects the global economy...

[juanster]

I Want Cheap Gasssssss.

[SteveG4Cube]

If your vehicle cannot make it over 450 miles on less than 15 gallons of fuel, it shouldn't be a daily driver, period.

I love cars, and I love technology. We have the technology to make damn powerful cars that get good fuel economy, so why the hell do we have so many V8 powered hulks that can't even get 30 MPG in a year round useable vehicle!?!?

Err, my '06 Civic is rated at 30/40mpg. I used to average about 34-35mpg during my weekly commute which is mostly highway. Now with ethanol blended gas, I'm lucky to average 30mpg on a tank. :mad:

[Rodimus Prime]

Err, my '06 Civic is rated at 30/40mpg. I used to average about 34-35mpg during my weekly commute which is mostly highway. Now with ethanol blended gas, I'm lucky to average 30mpg on a tank. :mad:

quote from the turth. Ethanol has quite a bit less power in it and gas mileage drops a lot on it and mostly it increase the polution we put out because of the fairly large drop in mileaged.

[MACDRIVE]

100% ETHANOL

I was just wondering if we had cars that ran on straight ethanol, if they would still require the use of a catalytic converter for emissions regulations. Does anyone know?

[MongoTheGeek]

100% ETHANOL

I was just wondering if we had cars that ran on straight ethanol, if they would still require the use of a catalytic converter for emissions regulations. Does anyone know?

Yes. The catalytic converter and such are needed because it is impossible to get perfect combustion. Ethanol helps reduce the CO and hydrocarbons because it brings extra oxygen to the mix. I don't know enough about the various chemistries to say if it burns faster or not. The extra oxygen though increases the production of NOx.

[Rodimus Prime]

Yes. The catalytic converter and such are needed because it is impossible to get perfect combustion. Ethanol helps reduce the CO and hydrocarbons because it brings extra oxygen to the mix. I don't know enough about the various chemistries to say if it burns faster or not. The extra oxygen though increases the production of NOx.


Yes it reduces CO and hydrocarbons per gallon but the fact that fuel mileage decreases their is a net increase in CO and hydrocarbons per mile driven.

[Sdashiki]

To those who claim the profit windfalls made in the last few years from the price-gouging of gas, is merely "Capitalism Working"....

gimme a break.

Billions of dollars in profit where the increase in pricing that created that large profit was brought on by "problems" which would in turn reduce profit, or keep it level, not increase it to where they are now. Profit levels/margins like this, on an energy source (which is not the same as other consumables) are not supposed to happen.

Gasoline helps our economy, our society, and all that froo froo junk. How can a company, in good conscience, make SO much money when they are supposed to be supporting the basic blood of america? This just doesnt sit well with most americans, and yet we still take it straight up the chute.

This is not capitalism working, this is greed run amok.

When oil costs $70 a barrel, compared to $25 from pre-2001, profits SHOULD NOT GO UP!

[Rodimus Prime]

To those who claim the profit windfalls made in the last few years from the price-gouging of gas, is merely "Capitalism Working"....

gimme a break.

Billions of dollars in profit where the increase in pricing that created that large profit was brought on by "problems" which would in turn reduce profit, or keep it level, not increase it to where they are now. Profit levels/margins like this, on an energy source (which is not the same as other consumables) are not supposed to happen.

Gasoline helps our economy, our society, and all that froo froo junk. How can a company, in good conscience, make SO much money when they are supposed to be supporting the basic blood of america? This just doesnt sit well with most americans, and yet we still take it straight up the chute.

This is not capitalism working, this is greed run amok.

When oil costs $70 a barrel, compared to $25 from pre-2001, profits SHOULD NOT GO UP!

You know that might carry some weight if most people where not driving SUV that get piss poor gas mileage. They drive this cars that takes a ton of gas to run and then they complain about high prices. Drive something that gets more than 20 mpg and that might carry some weight.

and why shouldn't they go up. Like other business and hell retail they charge a certain % over their cost. When there cost double our cost is going to double and yes they make double the profit. Most company do not just add a flat fee to their work and a lot of it is based % above cost. Go look at the construction industry. They do not charge a flat fee on their work. No the contractors will charge 10% above their cost which is per profit. All over head cost are past on and then they make a certain % more. It how it works. (plus they are making a lot of money right now because their is more work to be done than their are contractors that are able to do it.)

Also I might like to point out if everyone drove cars that got better gas mileage and just reduced the demand for gas just 10% prices of gas would fall by at least 10% because demand drop so much.

Right now the oil company have a long list of reasons and you can blame the American public for most of it. First off the country consumes gas at 90% of max production capabilities. On top of that it hard for the oil companies to increase their production capabilities because of tree huggers preventing them from getting the land or the permits to be able to do it. And then that same groups complains about high prices.

You can not have your cake and eat it to here. Drive a car that gets better gas mileage.


Also if any one who drives a car that gets less than 27mpg really has no room to talk (unless you use that vehicle as it was designed for and really require it)

[TBi]

You can make hydrogen from sea water. We have an abundance of that. We only have a shortage of fresh water.

[Rodimus Prime]

You can make hydrogen from sea water. We have an abundance of that. We only have a shortage of fresh water.

yes you can make it from sea water exept for the fact that you have remove the salt from it first because we need it to be fresh water before we can use it. We can not really use salt water for cooling and what not because of the high salt content. Plus the engery demand to make it from water is very high.
So now not only do you have to deal with the engery demand of getting the hydrogen from the water but also the high engery demand to remove the salt from the water.

[MongoTheGeek]

yes you can make it from sea water exept for the fact that you have remove the salt from it first because we need it to be fresh water before we can use it. We can not really use salt water for cooling and what not because of the high salt content. Plus the engery demand to make it from water is very high.
So now not only do you have to deal with the engery demand of getting the hydrogen from the water but also the high engery demand to remove the salt from the water.

I think its funny that you are responding to someone with Optimus Prime as an avatar.

I personally have always found the idea of the hydrogen cars to be a false hope. The only way to get hydrogen is to electrolyze water which requires more energy that you get out.

[840quadra]

I think its funny that you are responding to someone with Optimus Prime as an avatar.

I personally have always found the idea of the hydrogen cars to be a false hope. The only way to get hydrogen is to electrolyze water which requires more energy that you get out.

Indeed!

The only way that is environmentally friendly is to get that electricity from solar, wind, or hydro power, but wouldn't that power be better suited for something else?

On the subject of Ethanol.

I agree with the last few posters against it. Great idea, but it's lower energy output, and high production cost defeats the purpose.

[TBi]

The only way that is environmentally friendly is to get that electricity from solar, wind, or hydro power, but wouldn't that power be better suited for something else?

Not if you made it on some far off windy island which has loads of room for wind turbines but no one on the island to use it. Then you just pump it back to the mainland.

[MongoTheGeek]

The only way that is environmentally friendly is to get that electricity from solar, wind, or hydro power, but wouldn't that power be better suited for something else?


Don't forget Geothermal and Nuclear.

Another problem with hydrogen is that it is a pain and a half to deal with. It doesn't compress well. Gasoline has more hydrogen per gallon than liquid hydrogen. LNG has almost twice as much. Hydrogen also leaks. Its leaks through solid aluminum. To be useful to store you need to keep it at insane pressures which exacerbates the leaking.

[shecky]

today was great, as i started my AM by getting to change my blown (and very, very worn) tire on the side of the highway in high wind + rain.

4 new tires, 205/55r16 = around $550.
this week's gas bill = around $50.
contributing to the detriment of the environment with emissions = priceless.

i cannot wait to move and start using a bike.

[satty]

Don't forget Geothermal and Nuclear...

Since when is nuclear energy environment friendly?
Where from and how do we get the Uranium?
What are we doing with the waste?

The price for Uranium ore is increasing exponentially at the moment, because the mining is very energy intensive (mainly oil used => CO2 into atmosphere) and we used most stockpiles of old nuclear weapons. See:

Uranium ore price chart for the last 15 years (http://www.uxc.com/review/uxc_g_price.html)

In my opinion Nuclear is not a long term option.

[MongoTheGeek]

Since when is nuclear energy environment friendly?
Where from and how do we get the Uranium?
What are we doing with the waste?


Nuclear energy doesn't produce large amounts of harmful byproducts. It does however create small amounts of very harmful byproducts. Most of the harmfulness goes away in 100 years. Which seems like a huge time scale, but its less than most of the global warming panic time scales. If you look at millennia long problems century long ones aren't so extreme.

Uranium is mined from hard rock and doesn't involve strip mining.

Local storage in elevated glass lined steel casks for 100 years will drop the radioactivity to safe levels. After which it can be buried, perhaps in the same hard rock mines it came out of.

I read a great article about this in "Mechanical Engineering" a couple of years ago.

[Rodimus Prime]

Nuclear energy doesn't produce large amounts of harmful byproducts. It does however create small amounts of very harmful byproducts. Most of the harmfulness goes away in 100 years. Which seems like a huge time scale, but its less than most of the global warming panic time scales. If you look at millennia long problems century long ones aren't so extreme.

Uranium is mined from hard rock and doesn't involve strip mining.

Local storage in elevated glass lined steel casks for 100 years will drop the radioactivity to safe levels. After which it can be buried, perhaps in the same hard rock mines it came out of.

I read a great article about this in "Mechanical Engineering" a couple of years ago.

Something interesting about Nuclear energy is if we recycle the parts it reduces the waste by a lot. The US is the only nation that has nuclear power that does not recycle it due to an stupid law passed during the cold war that would not allow it. It was hope that other nation would follow this idea so nuclear weapons could not be made from it. The other nations where smart enough to see the stupidity of dealing with large amount of nuclear waste and chose to recycle it and have next to no Nuclear waste. On top of that we have a way of putting the fuel in this little sphere things pretty cheaply and after it used up they are self sealed and never well leak. As an added bonus they can never be used for a nuclear weapons because the cost to get the nuclear material out of them is astronomically high.

As for wind energy. It can never and will never be a main stay power supply. All wind energy can do is reduce power demand. The reason why wind can never be come primary power sources is because it a use it or lose type of deal and it has no spare capacity for when power demands jump. Now our coal burning plants can increase and decrease the power out put on demand unlike wind.

That being said wind power is a great way to go because it at least reduces the strain on the power plants.
The biggest problem with the renewable energy is we can not get much more power out of them. We are sitting near the theoretical max on efficiency (which is like nice high 10%) and that is just because they are just not hot enough to be much better.

[MongoTheGeek]

Something interesting about Nuclear energy is if we recycle the parts it reduces the waste by a lot. The US is the only nation that has nuclear power that does not recycle it due to an stupid law passed during the cold war that would not allow it.

Thank you Mr Peanut.

It was hope that other nation would follow this idea so nuclear weapons could not be made from it. The other nations where smart enough to see the stupidity of dealing with large amount of nuclear waste and chose to recycle it and have next to no Nuclear waste. On top of that we have a way of putting the fuel in this little sphere things pretty cheaply and after it used up they are self sealed and never well leak. As an added bonus they can never be used for a nuclear weapons because the cost to get the nuclear material out of them is astronomically high.

Pebble bed reactors. :) Each "pebble" on its own is relatively harmless and extracting the nuclear material from the core is difficult.

As for wind energy. It can never and will never be a main stay power supply. All wind energy can do is reduce power demand. The reason why wind can never be come primary power sources is because it a use it or lose type of deal and it has no spare capacity for when power demands jump. Now our coal burning plants can increase and decrease the power out put on demand unlike wind.

That why you team it with pump storage facilities. Coal plants don't really have that fast of a turn around. It can take an hour or two to build up a head of steam. Fast turn around is what gas turbines are good at.

[Cassie]

For our power plants, I believe solar is the way to go.

Stick some solar panels in the sunniest spot on earth, plus other places that get a lot of sun, and we just reduced our fossil fuel usage.

[iBlue]

I like how American's moan about fuel being expensive when it's actually very cheap compared to, pretty much, the rest of the world.
In the UK it's about $7 a gallon ($7.42 per gallon of Premium)

yup, I got this far into the thread and thankfully found one of these posts. (because I was going to write one myself, as a matter of course) :p

When I lived in the states I bitched about fuel prices, then I moved to the UK and found out what fuel prices can REALLY be like. ($7 + per gallon)

Them's da brakes, USA: You go about wasting the world's resources but you can at the very least pay your very nominals fees for it. It's the least you can do. :rolleyes:

[edesignuk]

For our power plants, I believe solar is the way to go.

Stick some solar panels in the sunniest spot on earth, plus other places that get a lot of sun, and we just reduced our fossil fuel usage.I little bit of sun will not replace a nuclear power plant. Not least as they're only 40% efficient (http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/06/solar-cell-breakthrough-40-efficiency-achieved/) at the moment.

Solar can help, but I don't see how it can be a solution.

[poppe]

What I've been told about ethanol and from the reports I've read was that sure ethanol is not fuel effecient at the moment, but that it has the ability to become more fuel efficient to the point that it would be the same as gasoline now. Sadly don't have any links or anything.

[mfacey]

All Americans need to stop wining about expensive gas. The current recommended retail price for a liter of 95 octane (so regular stuff) is €1.475 here. In US units that's $7.56 per GALLON. For Super Plus (98 Octane) its even $7.86 per gallon.

The biggest issue isn't the longer distances covered, its that lots of Americans still insist on driving seriously over-powered cars. I remember when I was over last summer that the vast majority of the ads on TV were screaming 200+hp for even the most basic sedan. Its kind of senseless (although I do like a nice and powerful car myself :D ). I don't see gas prices dropping to old levels anymore so the change is going to have to come from the consumers by trading is their huge V8s for something more sensible like a Smart :)

[MACDRIVE]

Too many Americans over here drive trucks and SUV's. I like cars. I like cars with 4 doors and a nice trunk. There's whole lot of nice vehicles that fit that description. :)

[After G]

All Americans need to stop wining about expensive gas. The current recommended retail price for a liter of 95 octane (so regular stuff) is €1.475 here. In US units that's $7.56 per GALLON. For Super Plus (98 Octane) its even $7.86 per gallon.

The biggest issue isn't the longer distances covered, its that lots of Americans still insist on driving seriously over-powered cars. I remember when I was over last summer that the vast majority of the ads on TV were screaming 200+hp for even the most basic sedan. Its kind of senseless (although I do like a nice and powerful car myself :D ).

Too many Americans over here drive trucks and SUV's. I like cars. I like cars with 4 doors and a nice trunk. There's whole lot of nice vehicles that fit that description. :)I really think gas should be $8 or $9 a gallon, because that's the true cost of obtaining it. (from pumping to refining to shipping). My problem is I drive a small car shared with 4 other people and my gas prices go up when someone with a Hummer pisses away the supply. I really think those who waste more gas need to pay more for it. (In other words, more government incentives for economic vehicles)

The problem as I see it (at least here in the US) is:

1) Urban sprawl. Can you say 2 hour commute each way (at least where I live)?
2) Stupid drivers. People cutting me off at a red light, only to brake heavily (and waste gas). People who don't plan their route so they cut to an exit at the last minute, forcing lines of drivers to brake and waste gas. People who stop traffic with accidents causing whole freeways of people to get 0 MPG.
3) Consumerism. It encourages being wasteful and replacing things that work perfectly well.
3.5) People buying more than they need. SUVs that will only ever see a freeway piss me off the most.
4) The replacement of conscience with self-will. (but that's going off-topic)

[adk]

[QUOTE=mfacey]All Americans need to stop wining about expensive gas. The current recommended retail price for a liter of 95 octane (so regular stuff) is €1.475 here. In US units that's $7.56 per GALLON. For Super Plus (98 Octane) its even $7.86 per gallon.
[QUOTE]


Regular gas in the US is 87 octane. The octane difference and your higher tax rate accounts for much of the difference. In Oregon, for example, fuel is taxed at $.24 per gallon, or $.06 per liter.