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MacRumors
Jun 18, 2003, 08:10 AM
dietsoda reports on a story which was briefly on Mac-Life.de (http://www.mac-life.de) that claims to have knowledge of upcoming PowerMacs based on the contents of the mysterious boxes.

This Spymac thread (http://www.spymac.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=29112) claims to contain the original text on the site.

There is no "G5" shown on the outer hull, just PowerMacintosh 970. The Computers are there is two versions. Grey plastic with Aluminium or white plastic with Aluminium. The grey version has got the grill optic (grey stripes), the white is completely white, no structure.
The Picture seen in here (where this was posted, --> the translator,MacCaine) is a fake, definitely.
The Machines are not shaped as seen on the picture, no grill-style air-intakes. But small holes on the top and bottom, rounded out on the front. Similar to the ones from the eMacs.
The Machines are rounded out to top-front side and to the front.
All have got Superdrives.
The sides are covered with Alu, the right cover can be opened to access the inside.
On top and bottom, the machine has got 2 polished steelparts.
The Slots for the drives are in a "box that can be pulled out!!!!!!" On this box is the Apple Logo and "Powermacintosh 970" It can be rotated 90 degr. If rotated you can use the machine as desktop or as tower. There is space for 5 drives - optical or HD.
on the frontside there are 1 FW 800 Port, Headphones, Mic, bluetooth logo, three apple typical buttons, and chromed speaker.
on the back are 1 FW 800, 1 FW 800, 2x USB, 1 USB 2.0, ethernet, ADC, DVI and four diagonal PCI Slots!!!!!, speaker connector, mic.
Size of hull.: 15cm x 65cm x 40cm

There is a new alu/white keyboard, optical 2 button mouse without cord, srollwheel made of alu, bluetooth



DrGonzo
Jun 18, 2003, 08:16 AM
sounds secky and better than that photograph, though, WHO KNOWS, i can't wait.

Wardofsky
Jun 18, 2003, 08:17 AM
Well, it certainly sounds like a treat.
The writer seems to climax the story while going through the info.

It sounds like a big computer PlayStation 2, for those who don't know, the PS2 has a 90 degree rotateable sign and grills.

pivo6
Jun 18, 2003, 08:21 AM
The biggest news, if this is true, is the inclusion of a 2 button mouse!:D I guess we'll see on Monday.

Mal
Jun 18, 2003, 08:21 AM
Doesn't sound too bad, but what's up with the "PowerMacintosh 970"? Apple has always called them either PowerMac or Power Macintosh (note the space). Could just be a typo, but I find that rather suspicious.

JW

dietsoda
Jun 18, 2003, 08:22 AM
i wasn't that upset with the photo that was doing the rounds, but i have to admit, this sounds better!

The rotating drives sound either like a flight of fancy, or another apple innovation we will all wonder how we did without.

Fingers' crossed!

EVERYTHING CROSSED!

nagromme
Jun 18, 2003, 08:26 AM
A mix of USB 2 and USb 1.1 ports? I don't think so! Why on earth? Would it save 25 cents?

Current PowerMacs are already supposed to have USB 2 chips, needing only software support.

mustang_dvs
Jun 18, 2003, 08:28 AM
Diagonal PCI slots?? Hmmmm?
:confused:

QuiteSure
Jun 18, 2003, 08:28 AM
This sounds like the ultimate mac fantasy. I hope it's true!

IndyGopher
Jun 18, 2003, 08:31 AM
Originally posted by dietsoda
i wasn't that upset with the photo that was doing the rounds, but i have to admit, this sounds better!

The rotating drives sound either like a flight of fancy, or another apple innovation we will all wonder how we did without.

Fingers' crossed!

EVERYTHING CROSSED!
The rotating drive cage is used in other computers to make reconfigurable desktop/towers.. the Compaq Deskpro EP comes to mind.

sinbushar
Jun 18, 2003, 08:31 AM
sounds like much too much for one update.....but we'll see...it'ld be cool as hell...and i think the rotating drive idea has been used by alot of others...i think you can do it on some old compaqs...not completely sure...just my thoughts

shadowfax
Jun 18, 2003, 08:33 AM
you know, the mouse is the weirdest thing about this. i mean, come on. if apple were going to change it's mouse design to the standard, i think it would have happened by now. as it is, it makes this sound just like some schmuck's wishful thinking all hoaxed up. we shall see though.

Freg3000
Jun 18, 2003, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by nagromme
A mix of USB 2 and USb 1.1 ports? I don't think so! Why on earth? Would it save 25 cents?

Current PowerMacs are already supposed to have USB 2 chips, needing only software support.

Yes that does sound a little screwed up. Also the article says "1 FW 800, 1 FW 800." It is most likely a typo, but it still makes me suspicious.

Additionally, the 90 degree rotatable Apple logo sounds really strange, but who knows.

Everything else checks out for me.

crazyastro
Jun 18, 2003, 08:38 AM
ummmmm, doesn't this sound like a desperate outpouring of every rumour about the new PowerMacs in recent days??? It sounds a little fishy: the "climax" of the story is a continuous string of rumours (although personally I would love to see a new bluetooth mouse), this sounds a little too fantastical to be real. Of course stating that the "mysterious boxes" have been opened instantly makes me suspicious: no one can verify these boxes exist!

dongmin
Jun 18, 2003, 08:39 AM
Originally posted by sinbushar
sounds like much too much for one update.....but we'll see...it'ld be cool as hell...

agreed, it has just about everything people have been asking for, and more. But sure would be nice if it was true. Apple hasn't done a case redesign in how many years, five? It's about time for a dramatic statement.

some interesting but unconvincing bits:

-two colors option--Apple has NEVER given you such options for pro Macs

-bluetooth + two buttons + scroll wheel

-'four diagonal PCI Slots!!!!!'--I have no idea what that means

-no mention of handles

DaveGee
Jun 18, 2003, 08:40 AM
Is the size strange or is it me... (metric challanged)

Size of hull.: 15cm x 65cm x 40cm
Size of hull.: 5.9" x 25.59" x 15.74"

Todays Machines:

Size: 8.9" x 17.0" x 18.4"

Well okay... I guess the numbers aren't too 'odd' since it's really smaller in 2 out of the 3 dimensions.. but either the new machines are MUCH taller or MUCH deeper (by over 8") than todays systems and I guess that fits in well with the the diag. PCI cards...

Dave

blakespot
Jun 18, 2003, 08:41 AM
Why would you need to rotate the slots depending upon desktop or tower orientation? A PCI card is not going to have a problem even if it's upside down with a card in it. Sounds like some false info from someone who has some strange ideas about the way slots must be oriented (ie, not Apple).


blakespot

pivo6
Jun 18, 2003, 08:41 AM
Originally posted by mustang_dvs
Diagonal PCI slots?? Hmmmm?
:confused:

I had the same reaction. Why diagonal? It can't be to save space. It makes little sense to me.

JBracy
Jun 18, 2003, 08:43 AM
It sounds a little too good to be true. If it is true that these boxes exist and someone has opened them, and been brave enough to post a detailed description, then why not post photos as well?

MorganX
Jun 18, 2003, 08:50 AM
Originally posted by pivo6
The biggest news, if this is true, is the inclusion of a 2 button mouse!:D I guess we'll see on Monday.

Indeed.

davei
Jun 18, 2003, 08:53 AM
Originally posted by pivo6
I had the same reaction. Why diagonal? It can't be to save space. It makes little sense to me.

Why is the iMac base round? Because it's cool and different? :) :)

dietsoda
Jun 18, 2003, 08:54 AM
it does seem a little odd there is no photo, and for me this is what makes the rumour doubtful.

although i don't agree that it would be too much for one update. Look at the leap we made to the B&W G3, and as someone else pointed out, it's been a long time since we've had a new case.

i presumed the two colours were an indication of speed/features. Perhaps the white ones have PPC 970s and the grey ones have G4s? The rotatable apple would be consistant with a tower/desktop combo, as when it's a desktop the apple could be rotated to face the user. this would seem to be a concern at apple as they chaned the laptop apple rotation to be correct when being used rather than when shut, something which still bugs some. (not me i must say)

as far as bluetooth mice go, IMHO it is not too much to ask, this is exactly the sort of advance pro mac users should expect as standard, and i'm amazed it hasn't happened yet. Unless of course there really is a 2 button mouse with scroll dial in the works and they didn't want the cost of changing mice twice in as many years.

pyrotoaster
Jun 18, 2003, 08:57 AM
Originally posted by JBracy
It sounds a little too good to be true. If it is true that these boxes exist and someone has opened them, and been brave enough to post a detailed description, then why not post photos as well?
Possibly because of the insanity and legal action that that would cause (possibly).

At the very least, this is very interesting. What I'm finding funny is that we haven't heard a peep from American resellers, while German and French ones are dishing all the dirt.

I like the description, and I like the prospect of new keyboards and mice (I mean, white is nice, but it gets so dirty! :p ).

Jeff Harrell
Jun 18, 2003, 08:58 AM
I don't buy it. It's possible, certainly, but it just doesn't sound right to me. The dimensions are wrong. I mean, they could be just estimates made from looking at the thing, but they seem too precise for that.

15cm is about 6 inches. Assume that's the width when the machine is set up as a deskside.

65cm is about 25". That's the depth. Sounds shallow. Xserve is 28" deep. They could maybe get rid of a few inches by reorienting the midline fans, but I'm not sure about it.

40cm is a mere 15.7". That would be the height dimension when the machine's a deskside. But that's too small to be a rackmount. Rackmounts are 19" wide from rack ear hole center to rack ear hole center, or about 17-1/2" wide overall.

I guess I'm nitpicking, but it just doesn't sound right to me. The width is wrong, and the height is wrong; the machine would be either 5-1/4" high (3 RU, 13.3 cm) or 7" high (4 RU, 17.8 cm). 15cm is almost exactly wrong.

Plus... diagonal PCI slots? Why? It's not like the machine (even at 3 RU) wouldn't be big enough to accomodate ordinary ones.

Mudbug
Jun 18, 2003, 08:59 AM
real or not, the image conjured in my head of this is one that is far more secksay that the fugly pic we saw yesterday all crumpled. This seems more in line with the Apple design motif, altho i'm not so sure i buy the line about the 2 button mouse... it's too much of an apple tradition to change at this point.

moosecat
Jun 18, 2003, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by dietsoda
it does seem a little odd there is no photo, and for me this is what makes the rumour doubtful.

There are several reasons to doubt this rumor, but I don't think the absence of a photo is one of them. It's one thing for some random employee to run into a back room, while on the job, and sneak a furtive glance at the contents of a box. It's quite another to go back there with a camera and snap pictures, likely requiring a flash.

If I were in that position, I probably wouldn't risk it by taking pictures. I'd already be risking my job so a small group of lunatics on Mac websites can have some information a few days earlier -- no need to risk it further.

beefstu01
Jun 18, 2003, 09:07 AM
Aluminum scroll wheel?!? Unless I'm missing something, what good is an aluminum scroll wheel?! All of 'em that I've seen have been rubber. This is unless the "scroll wheel" is the jog dial we've seen in past rumors, sorta like what the iPod has on it. My bets on this one, however, are that it's false. We'll see Monday... wouldn't it suck if they didn't release anything then?

rubikcube
Jun 18, 2003, 09:12 AM
This is pretty sketchy to me. Why does he open a box and not start one up? What's the deal with the usb 2.0? You don't have separate 2 and 1 ports because 2.0 is backwards compatible. This faker obviously has not done his homework. Cheers to arn for page 2.

Eric_Z
Jun 18, 2003, 09:17 AM
From http://www.mactechnews.de/vote_news_comment.php?id=3371

Hallo leude, war gestern bei einem Kumpel der bei einem grossen MacShop arbeitet - Stadt und Shopname darf ich nicht sagen, sonst issa seinen Job los. Die haben vorgestern neue Rechner gekriegt und es handelt sich tatsächlich um die neuen 970-Rechner mit warscheinlich Mac OS X 10.2.7.
Ich also nach gestern nach feierabend sofort da hin:
Aufm Gehäuse steht aber nix von G5 oder so - einfach nur Power Macintosh 970. Die Rechner gibts in grauem plastik mit Aluminium oder in weiss mit Aluminum, wobei das graue plastik die gestreifte optik aufweiist und das weisse völlig weiss ist. Das Bild das hier kursiert ist definitv ein Fake.
Die rechner sind nicht so rechteckig und weisen auch nicht geschlitzte Lufteinlässe auf, sondern löcher oben und unten auf der frontseite nach oben ausgewölbt, ähnlich derer des eMacs.
Die rechner laden nach vorn und oben auf der Fronseite bauchig aus und haben ALLE ein DVD-Writer!!
An den Flanken sind sie mit Aluminium verkleidet, wobei die rechte verkleidungen nach unten weggeklappt werden kann. Oben und unten hat der Rechner jeweils 2 Polierte trapezförmige Stahlbügel.
Die schächte für die Laufwerke sind in einer herausziebaren quatratischen Box (auf der sich das Logo und die Aufschrift Power Macintosh 970 befindet) eingebaut die um 90 Grad gedreht werden kann um den rechner als Desktop oder als Tower zu benutzen. Diese Schublade enthält incl. DVD-Writer 4!!! Schächte.
Auf der vorderseite befinden Sich ein Firewire 800 / 400 Bus sowie Kopfhörer USB (2??) und Mic und eine kleine Halbkugel mit dem Bluetooth logo drunter. Dadrüber bfinden sich die 3 appletypischen Knöpfe und ein verchromter lautsprecher. Auf der rückseite befinden sich 1 Firewire, 1 Frewire 800, 2x USB, 1x USB 2, Netzwerk, ADC, DVI, sowie 4 schräg !!! angeordnete Blechverkeidungen für die PCI-Steckplätze sowie Lautsprecher, Mic, etc.
Das Gehäuse ist ca 15 cm breit 65 cm Hoch und 40 cm tief.
Dabei ist eine neue Alu/weisse tastatur und eine optische 2 tastenmaus mit einem wirklich ungewöhnlichen Scrollrad aus Alu, allerdings ohne Kabel aber mit der gleichen halbkugle vorn darann wie auf dem PPC-Gehäuse.
Von meiner mitgebrachten Mac OSX 10.2.6 Firewire-Festplatte startete der rechner allerdings nicht, so dass wir ihn leider nicht anmachen konnten (man hätte das system ja personalisieren müssen), daher gehe ich davon aus das da mindestens 10.2.7 drauf sein muss oder sone art enabler für den PPC 970 Prozessor.
Leider hatten wir nicht genug zeit die Kiste voll auszuchecken,da der wachdienst bald kommen sollte, aber sie ist SCHÖN!!!! besonder aber wenn man sich die neuen Displays daneben vorstellt - die haben jetzt auch diese Polierten Stahlbügel als Ständer und sehen irgendwie i-Mac-Massig aus, haben aber zusätzlich einen feinen ALU-Rahmen. Witziger weise sind auf der linken Flanke des PPC-Gehäuses kleine Nuten eingestanzt in die dies Bügel exaxt hineinpassen, so dass man wenn man den rechner als Desktop mit einem Apple Display benutzt dieses auf den rechner gestellt werden kann ohne zu verutschen!!!!
Leider kann ich keine Aussage über die taktung des Prozessors machen, es war aber nur ein Prozessor drin. Auf dem Kühler stand Dual-Core / Hypertransport, allerdings weiss ich nicht was das bedeuten kann.
Es war bei genauerer Betrachtung nur ein Prozessor darunter so dass hier wohl der Kühler des Dual-Prozessors verbaut wurde.

Die leute in dem shop haben im übrigen strickte anweisung keine Infos nach aussen zu tragen - sonst droht fristlose entlassung - darum bitte ich um verständnis für die schlechte quellenangabe!!!

===============

Arno: Woran würde man Sound 5.1I/O erkennen? In der Verpackung waren zumindest keine Boxen oder sowas drin. leider bin ich technisch nicht so versiert, und es ist durchaus möglich, das ich einige der von mir beschriebene Anschlüsse falsch interpretiert habe. Allerdings kann ich eins mit bestimmtheit sagen: dass dort mehr anschlüsse dran waren als an meiner bald hoffnungslos veralteten Dual 1,25 - Kiste.

Loet: Tut mir leid, wenn ich hier die Spekulationen zur nichte gemacht habe - aber es gibt ja NOCH keine Bilder von der Kiste - so dass über das genaue Aussehen ja noch weiter spekuliert werden kann.

===============

ob da nun power mac, powermac oder power macintosh draufstand, weiss ich natürlich nicht so genau, die 970 im namen ist mir aber fotografisch in der erinnerung geblieben; hätte mir vielleicht was zu schreiben mitnehmen sollen. G5 stand auf jedenfall nirgends auf der kiste!!!

===============

Burma: Die höhe ist ca 55 cm incl. Bügel, hatte leider die falsche taste getroffen so das im beitrag 65 cm stand, was ja riesig wäre.
Ohne Bügel schätze ich die Höhe auf ca 40 cm. Alle Masse sind Schätzungen, da ich weder Zeit noch Möglichkeit hatte nachzumessen.

Meinst Du das "rmf" wirklich von Apple D kommt? Ich hoffe ich krieg hier kein Ärger, weil ich Industriespionage betrieben hab oder so....

===============

Liebe Leute,
Angesicht der rapiden Verbreitung der von mir geposteten Infos, werde ich mich nicht mehr an diesem Thread beteiligen - Am Montag seht Ihr ja dann alle was ich gesehen hab!

===============

Hab das in einem anderen Forum gesehen, hört sich plausible an und scheint kein Wichtigtuer zu sein:

HILDE schrieb:

Also, irgendwie hat dieser Jens offensichtlich ein kleines Poblem mit der Abschätzung von Längen. Was die Beschreibung der Geräte betrifft, hat er entweder die richtige EINGABE (dann muss er Hellseher sein) gehabt, oder er hat das Ding wirklich gesehen...

Was die Dimensionen anbelangt:
h:35/42,5 (ohne/mit Bügel)
t: 40
b: 17

Ausserdem heisst es: PowerMac 970

Taktung:
2 GHZ Single und DualCore
Hypertrans BusSpeed: 500MHZ
oder 2,4 GHZ DualCore
Hypertrans BusSpeed: 600MHZ

Caches:
128KB level 0 oncore.
512KB level 1 onchip (Dualcore=2x512kb).

(DualCore=2Prozessorkerne auf einem Chip - gibts aber erst ab Sebtember)


Die Laufwerks-Schublade lässt sich nur um 90 Grad nach links drehen, wenn das Gehäuse aufgeklappt wird und diese Herausgezogen werden kann.
Der rechte Seitendeckel wird inklusive der oberen Hälfte des Gehäuse ausgeklappt.
im Desktopbetrieb kann dann der Linke Gehäuseteil nach oben geklappt werden.
Die Metallbügel sind so mit dem Gehäuse über einen Metallrahmen verbunden, dass sie in beiden Betriebsarten (Tower /Desktop) beim Aufklappen stehen bleiben (Schwingtürmechanik).

ADC-2: Komunikation mit dem Disply (Systemeinstellungen:Monitore) über Bluetooth oder USB.

AppleAdvancedMouse: Bluetooth 2-Tasten-Mouse mit Drehscheibe zum Scrollen, etc.

AppleAdvancedKeyboard2: Über Metalbügel höhenverstellbare Tastatur mit Sound und Display-Funktionen über BlueTooth ODER!!! USB.

AppleBlueToothConnector: Kommunikation mit Geräten (Tastatur, Maus, Display(s), etc ) über Bluetooth auf propitärem Steckplatz auf der Hauptplatine (Antenne in kleiner Kugelförmiger Ausbuchtung an der unteren Frontseite des Gehäuses (auch bei den Displays und den Eingabegeräten).

Betriebssystem:
MacOS X 10.2.7 (ADC-2 enabled, ABTC (AAK2, AAM) enabled, Hypertransport enabled, 64 bit enabled)

Den Rest könnt Ihr euch dann am Montag bei Apple.de selbst anschauen.

--------------------------------------------------

Dualcore 970 in september... riiiight.

Frobozz
Jun 18, 2003, 09:30 AM
Originally posted by pivo6
I had the same reaction. Why diagonal? It can't be to save space. It makes little sense to me.

Well, if the whole machine can be a desktop or a tower (horizontal or vertical), then the compromise for hard-wired internal PCI slots could be diagonal. Now, I'm not sure WHY either.... but it could be possible. I'd be much mroe include to say that would be horizontal if the machine was vertical, just like they are today.

arn
Jun 18, 2003, 09:37 AM
I guess I should point out that the article is more likely to have been pulled for being false than true.

but makes for fun reading

e-coli
Jun 18, 2003, 09:41 AM
Originally posted by Jeff Harrell
I don't buy it. It's possible, certainly, but it just doesn't sound right to me. The dimensions are wrong. I mean, they could be just estimates made from looking at the thing, but they seem too precise for that.

15cm is about 6 inches. Assume that's the width when the machine is set up as a deskside.

65cm is about 25". That's the depth. Sounds shallow. Xserve is 28" deep. They could maybe get rid of a few inches by reorienting the midline fans, but I'm not sure about it.

40cm is a mere 15.7". That would be the height dimension when the machine's a deskside. But that's too small to be a rackmount. Rackmounts are 19" wide from rack ear hole center to rack ear hole center, or about 17-1/2" wide overall.

I guess I'm nitpicking, but it just doesn't sound right to me. The width is wrong, and the height is wrong; the machine would be either 5-1/4" high (3 RU, 13.3 cm) or 7" high (4 RU, 17.8 cm). 15cm is almost exactly wrong.

Plus... diagonal PCI slots? Why? It's not like the machine (even at 3 RU) wouldn't be big enough to accomodate ordinary ones.


I disagree with your reasoning for thinking these are fake dimensions. If you ask me, this case is HUGE. It's a few inches narrower, the same height, but it's EXTREMELY deep compared to the MDD G4's.

e-coli
Jun 18, 2003, 09:44 AM
Originally posted by Freg3000
Yes that does sound a little screwed up. Also the article says "1 FW 800, 1 FW 800." It is most likely a typo, but it still makes me suspicious.

Additionally, the 90 degree rotatable Apple logo sounds really strange, but who knows.

Everything else checks out for me.

I think he meant the drive bays were rotatable, not the logo, silly. ;)

MikeH
Jun 18, 2003, 09:46 AM
Ahhh, joy. These 'reports' are getting more and more interesting and so many people are being worked up into a frenzy over mere rumors - 700 comments at the last count on the aledged PowerMac photo!!! I think the photo is a fake - I reckon Apple can come up with a better design than a box with slots on the front.

And back to the point at hand:- This version sounds great, but I'm taking it with a pinch of salt. A two buttons mouse would be fantastic (for me), but I'd be suprised if Steevo allows it.

I'm really looking forward to next week, just to see whether any of these rumors are accurate - and then to sit back and watch sparks fly as people bitch about their wet dreams not coming true.

Not long now...

RHutch
Jun 18, 2003, 09:49 AM
Originally posted by rubikcube
This is pretty sketchy to me. Why does he open a box and not start one up? What's the deal with the usb 2.0? You don't have separate 2 and 1 ports because 2.0 is backwards compatible. This faker obviously has not done his homework. Cheers to arn for page 2.

Try this scenario:

A current Mac user has several USB 1.1 peripherals and 2 USB 2.0 peripherals. They connect everything to a USB 1.1 hub they have had for a while. Currently it doesn't matter, since they can't take advantage of the increased speed of USB 2.0 on their Mac anyway.

Now new Macs come out with only 2 USB 2.0 ports and no USB 1.1 ports. They connect one of the 2.0 peripherals to one of the USB 2.0 ports. They connect the rest of their peripherals to the hub and connec the hub to the other USB 2.0 port on the machine. The USB 2.0 peripheral connected to the hub will not get USB 2.0 speed. But if you plug the peripheral into the other port on the machine, what do you do with all of the USB 1.1 peripherals?

I suppose that you could plug and unplug everytime you wanted to use a different peripheral. But I think that there might be reason to leave a regular USB port on the machine.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

Freg3000
Jun 18, 2003, 09:54 AM
Originally posted by arn

but makes for fun reading

It makes for fun reading!!! It screws with my emotional status! ARGHHHH!!!! :D


Originally posted by e-coli
I think he meant the drive bays were rotatable, not the logo, silly. ;)

Yeah, that was pretty dumb. I am silly. :)

jxyama
Jun 18, 2003, 09:55 AM
if the story is not true (which i think is the case), it's one heck of a mind twisting job by some prankster, as far as the audience of MR is concerned... it was fun and somewhat exciting to read, nonetheless. :D

2-button mouse kinda did it for me. i really doubt that apple would "cave" in and make it a standard after all these years.

just being ignorant here, but can you just "look" and tell the difference between usb 1.1 and 2.0? if 2.0 is backward compatible, won't they have the same plug shape? (i guess fw800 is backward compatible with 400 but has different plug shape...)

evil
Jun 18, 2003, 10:00 AM
these rumors get more andmore out of hand. i cant wait until monday so they will die down (for a while)

Haenk
Jun 18, 2003, 10:03 AM
[rough translation]

HILDE wrote:

Somehow, Jens has a little problem with the dimensions [note: he later posted that his dimensions contained a typo]. Considering the description, he either had the right intuition or he did see it by himself.

Concerning the dimensions:

height: 35cm/42.5cm (w/o - w/ handle)
depth: 40cm
width: 17cm

titled "PowerMac 970"

Speed:
2GHz single and DualCore with Hypertransport 500MHz
2.4GHz DualCore with Hypertransport 600MHz

Caches:
128kB level 0 oncore
512kB level 1 onchip (DualCore = 2*512kB)

(DualCore = 2 CPU cores on a chip, available starting september)

it is possible to rotate (and pull out) the drive tray, when the case is opened
right case part will open with the upper part of the case attached
while using it as a desktop computer, the left part of the case can be opened (upwards)
the metal handles are attached to the case with a metal frame, so that in both operating modes (tower / desktop) they will stay in position while openeing the case [I don't excatly understand this]

ADC-2: communication to the display using BlueTooth or USB

AppleAdvancedMouse: 2-button BlueTooth with scrolling wheel

AppleAdvancedKeyboard2: using BlueTooth or USB; adjustable height; controls for sound and display

AppleBlueToothConnector: communication with hardware (keyboard, mouse, display) - using a propriety connector on the mainboard - antenna is mounted inside a small bulb on the lower front side of the case (same as on displays and input devices)

os:
MacOS X 10.2.7 (ADC-2 enabled, ABTC (AAK2, AAM) enabled, Hypertransport enabled, 64 bit enabled) [whatever that means]

since this sounds like some marketing language, it is likely to be real...


[edit: some typos fixed]

Sol
Jun 18, 2003, 10:03 AM
There are a few interesting twists in this story.

The optical drives can be rotated? That is a neat gimmick.

If the PCI slots are diagonal that would mean heat will float up through the cards regardless of the Powermac's position.

The USB 1.1 & 2.0 bit sounds like Apple. The 17" PowerBook has one FW400 and one FW800 port. What is the point of that? FW800 is supposed to be backwards compatible.

rock711
Jun 18, 2003, 10:15 AM
Think about it; remember the original PC's that were horizontal in orientation? Well the PCI cards looked silly being vertical in that configuration. However, if the cards were in a diagonal orientation then they would look balanced in a tower or desktop position. Perhaps making the new PM look nice as a desktop or tower is one of the key points the designers sought to accomplish with the new design. By changing the PCI cards orientation and having a perfectly square, removable drive bay that could be rotated so that it was upright in whatever configuration you are inclined to use, I feel that it would look impressive and correct in both configurations. This is probably why the name and logo is on the rotatable box as opposed to the tower.

By the way -- first post.

arby
Jun 18, 2003, 10:20 AM
I can't see this being true. Why would Apple make a brand new case with drive bays which can be rotated so that it can become either a tower or desktop?

All of Apple's displays are designed to stand alone, and considering the average (lying flat on the horizontal) desktop is used to put the display on top, it doesn't seem to work...:confused:

Could it be some sort of quasi workstation / server thingy? Doesn't sound like a real Apple design.

Just my thoughts on this. :p

MikeH
Jun 18, 2003, 10:21 AM
I notice someone mentioned a rotating logo and that someone else said that this was silly (or that the poster had misread the original artical, and was therefore silly).

Anyway, my Playstation2 has a rotating logo on the disk tray - so the logo stays the right way up if it's vertical or horizontal. Silly yes, but a nice touch. If (and it's a big if) these new PowerMacs really can be horizontal or vertical Apple may well have a rotating logo.

Edit: Just noticed Wardofsky said the same thing. Doh.

gralem
Jun 18, 2003, 10:23 AM
This page2 article is a prime example of what I like to call COMPLETE CRAP! If he opened the box, where's the photo? Why would someone in GERMANY have access to these boxes? Remember the famous "german" iwalk video from spymac?

We'll see next week.

---gralem

bretm
Jun 18, 2003, 10:25 AM
Originally posted by davei
Why is the iMac base round? Because it's cool and different? :) :)

No. Because it retains it's form factor as you rotate the screen around it. If you had a square base then rotated the screen around 45° then you'd have a corner of a computer jabbing at you, plus a loss of work space.

Squire
Jun 18, 2003, 10:33 AM
Originally posted by MikeH
I notice someone mentioned a rotating logo and that someone else said that this was silly (or that the poster had misread the original artical, and was therefore silly).

Anyway, my Playstation2 has a rotating logo on the disk tray - so the logo stays the right way up if it's vertical or horizontal. Silly yes, but a nice touch. If (and it's a big if) these new PowerMacs really can be horizontal or vertical Apple may well have a rotating logo.

I didn't know that the PS2 logos rotated. I'll have to go check it out on mine.

If this thing is real, it sounds like a lot of accompanying stuff will be introduced as well (i.e. mouse, keyboard, BT monitor?).

Squire

e-coli
Jun 18, 2003, 10:34 AM
Originally posted by RHutch
Try this scenario:

A current Mac user has several USB 1.1 peripherals and 2 USB 2.0 peripherals. They connect everything to a USB 1.1 hub they have had for a while. Currently it doesn't matter, since they can't take advantage of the increased speed of USB 2.0 on their Mac anyway.

Now new Macs come out with only 2 USB 2.0 ports and no USB 1.1 ports. They connect one of the 2.0 peripherals to one of the USB 2.0 ports. They connect the rest of their peripherals to the hub and connec the hub to the other USB 2.0 port on the machine. The USB 2.0 peripheral connected to the hub will not get USB 2.0 speed. But if you plug the peripheral into the other port on the machine, what do you do with all of the USB 1.1 peripherals?

I suppose that you could plug and unplug everytime you wanted to use a different peripheral. But I think that there might be reason to leave a regular USB port on the machine.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.


USB 2 is backwards compatible. Users will just have to et USB2 hubs, and trash the old ones. Such is progress.

This is way too detailed to be fake. Although mac fanatics have gone to greater lengths in the past.

My vote is on "it's real". But the chip speeds seem awfully high. Not that that's a bad thing. And two cores on one chip>> w00t!!!!!

JBracy
Jun 18, 2003, 10:37 AM
Originally posted by e-coli
USB 2 is backwards compatible. Users will just have to et USB2 hubs, and trash the old ones. Such is progress.

This is way too detailed to be fake. Although mac fanatics have gone to greater lengths in the past.

My vote is on "it's real". But the chip speeds seem awfully high. Not that that's a bad thing. And two cores on one chip>> w00t!!!!!

The problem with USB 2 is that if you have any USB 1 devices on the USB 2 bus then all of the devices will slow down to USB 1 speed. So it sounds very likely that Apple would put both on the MB just like they did with FW.

Jason

MarksEvilTwin
Jun 18, 2003, 10:43 AM
Originally posted by davei
Why is the iMac base round? Because it's cool and different? :) :)

Like the guy before me said, its round because it remains constant no matter how you rotate the screen. my view on why its semi-spherical is that all the heat flows naturally to the very top, no problem, where it can be vented out by that single, quiet fan. keeps noise and heat to a minimum, while making for a damn cool design.

As for the new size, lets say this rumor is true, i can understand perhaps why the new dimensions would be like that. first of all, it fits the rumor of the long thing m-board, secondly, secondly, the diagonal PCI cards would very well help with air ventilation no matter the orientation (Tower or Desktop). Finally, maybe we have to dimensions misinterpreted. what if the long one is not depth, but height (as a tower) so when it lays down as a desktop, its really wide. That would accomodate a 23" screen sitting atop it, would it not? And for those concerned about the monitor being too high then, didn't we hear rumors of more adjustable displays?

Oh well, i agree with the general concensus, that this is way too many rumors we've heard packed into one neat package. I'm just playing a bit of a devil's advocate as to what these things could mean if they ARE true.

Mark

mykuki
Jun 18, 2003, 10:44 AM
Originally posted by MikeH
I notice someone mentioned a rotating logo and that someone else said that this was silly (or that the poster had misread the original artical, and was therefore silly).

Anyway, my Playstation2 has a rotating logo on the disk tray - so the logo stays the right way up if it's vertical or horizontal. Silly yes, but a nice touch. If (and it's a big if) these new PowerMacs really can be horizontal or vertical Apple may well have a rotating logo.

as someone stated before: it's not that the logo itself can be twisted but the box which hold the drives!

this box holds the logo. like that you can rotate the box/drives correspondingly to your macs orientation (desktop/tower) and the logo will automatically upright.

and by the way:
the original german text sounds much more convincing than the translation. it's correct though.

the answer/correction given by HILDE does seem even more authentic.
though i can pretty well imagine HILDE as a friend of the guy who jumps on the wagon to avoid us uncovering the fake because of too much inconsistencies.

if it's made up, HILDE is definetely the smarter guy of them.(though HILDE is a girl's name, i suppose he's not)

ok. i hope there will be more info when i come back in a few hours. :)

mykuki

ps: i'm having severe problems translating my thoughts into english today. sorry!

pyrotoaster
Jun 18, 2003, 11:05 AM
Originally posted by arn
but makes for fun reading
As long as it doesn't bring the forums to a screeching halt, fun is good. :)

This interesting, but it seems a little nonsensical, too. Ah... where are all the accurate leaks...?

akushlan
Jun 18, 2003, 11:06 AM
May be there aren't two options, but one is the new eMac (as they said the white one was like that), and they are sticking with grey for PowerMac line :confused:
Just my $.02

soggywulf
Jun 18, 2003, 11:10 AM
The Slots for the drives are in a "box that can be pulled out!!!!!!"

...

optical 2 button mouse without cord, srollwheel made of alu

I don't know about the tip as a whole, but it will seriously kick ass if these two things happen.

Halleluiah, a vertical drive box that can be easily removed! What a complete pain it is in our current B&W-style cases. Even my ancient Dell has a hinged swinging vert drive holder.

It would be nice to see the two-button scroller too, just to get more uniform integration with into the OS/apps for the second button and wheel. Although I admit it is already pretty well integrated with 3rd party scrollers. Control-clicking sucks. I don't know why they didn't go 2+scroll a long time ago (especially with the introduction of control clicks), except maybe the collective ego of Apple which couldn't admit that Wintel had the better solution a long time ago. :rolleyes:

But if the mouse doesn't happen, I'll happily stay with my optical MacAlly scroller. :)


Now these guys opened the box, right? So how about some dirt on the 9800 or FX5900 that had damn well better be inside?? :D

zuggerat
Jun 18, 2003, 11:23 AM
i think one possibility of the rotatable or reconfigurable drives and PCI stuff is that maybe the new powermac can be situated on ones desk in different ways...if the tower is layin on it's side it would be nice to change the orientation of the drives so that they are always parallel to the desk surface no matter what the position of the case of the computer... jsut a thought

gotohamish
Jun 18, 2003, 11:31 AM
Originally posted by mustang_dvs
Diagonal PCI slots?? Hmmmm?
:confused:

Cool! Bring 'em on!

My first reaction (well, the first practical reaction) was that they'd be hard to install cards into (which defeats the point), but then one remembers it's Apple, so of course it will be easy to install! :D

Ugg
Jun 18, 2003, 11:39 AM
An interesting photo at www.macguardians.de Looks a heck of a lot more appealing than the other one.

It also lists the specs which sound pretty darned nice

noverflow
Jun 18, 2003, 11:41 AM
Id say fake, for one reason.

This person is claiming to have
1: read the manual
or
2: turned on the machone and looked at the system profile

Why

USB 2.0 and 1.1 loook exactly the same.
How would this person know the differance?

JackRipper
Jun 18, 2003, 11:46 AM
Originally posted by noverflow
USB 2.0 and 1.1 loook exactly the same.
How would this person know the differance?

Aren't hardware specs listed on the box? Maybe all this guy did was type up the HW list?

mkaake
Jun 18, 2003, 11:49 AM
Originally posted by JBracy
The problem with USB 2 is that if you have any USB 1 devices on the USB 2 bus then all of the devices will slow down to USB 1 speed. So it sounds very likely that Apple would put both on the MB just like they did with FW.

Jason

no, they don't.

common falicy. word has it that they did this for a very short time after 2.0 was introduced, but the problem was solved shortly thereafter.

as for the rest of it, he seems to have a pretty intimate knowledge of this machine... enough that he would have had to turn it on to get these specs... which of course, is why it's 'fun' reading, and why it's on page 2...

but i would laugh my butt off if this guy turns out being right on monday (or tuesday, or whatever)

matt

Mr. Anderson
Jun 18, 2003, 11:54 AM
Originally posted by Ugg
An interesting photo at www.macguardians.de Looks a heck of a lot more appealing than the other one.

It also lists the specs which sound pretty darned nice

That image was used by another submission that goes to a Russian page - the image is a fake. Now, as to the specs? Who knows.....less than a week to go.

D

groovebuster
Jun 18, 2003, 12:03 PM
Originally posted by gralem
Why would someone in GERMANY have access to these boxes?

Errmm... maybe because Apple is selling their products world-wide and product launches are normally world-wide at the same date?

So tell me why someone in Germany should have NOT access to these boxes??? Or do you think that Apple products are USA exclusive for 3 months before other "unworthy" nationalities can get their hands on them?

Nice little world you are living in! :rolleyes: ;)

groovebuster

noverflow
Jun 18, 2003, 12:08 PM
When did the mac become a sony pc?
bluetooth logos?
970 logos?
Last time i saw a logo on a mac wass a powerpc logo.


also the mac will be a g5 not a 970.
Why?
because what hapens when the 975 comes out? people will think it is a different class of processor.

think if the g4 was the 7410.
we would have had so many diff numbers to keep track of
7410
7441
7445
7447
7451
7455
7457

I guess we could call it the 970 class powermac. then when the 975 comes out it is still in the range of 970

Im not sure about my numbers... if wrong im sorry.

backspinner
Jun 18, 2003, 12:11 PM
1. maybe the new towers will only be available first in Europe
2. after all, we have to wait for the iTMS so that will only be fair :p
3. maybe next to the USB ports "1.1" and "2" has been printed
4. Apple wants sales, and the most heard question about the mac is "it does has weird mice", so maybe at last they give in on this and start selling two button mice

jbh001
Jun 18, 2003, 12:17 PM
65cm is just over 2 feet long.

Picture how odd it would be to have something 6 inches wide and as deep as a standard filing cabinet.

If that dimention is height, then with the resulting "tower" you would almost have enough room to put one on either side of your chair with a board resting from one to the other to make a desk (depending on how long your shins are). Want computing power? Don't get a "desktop" computer. Get the new Apple Power "Desk"!!

Its either screwed up rack mount dimensions, fake, or crazy. Time will tell.

soggywulf
Jun 18, 2003, 12:19 PM
Originally posted by gotohamish
but then one remembers it's Apple, so of course it will be easy to install! :D

Ever tried removing or replacing your optical drive?

Reed Black
Jun 18, 2003, 12:23 PM
I can't stand back and watch from the sidelines anymore, had to jump in.

First of all SOME of you guys seem to think that the people at Apple are kinda stupid when it comes to designing computers. All these speculations about the look and how this doesnt make sense that Apple would do this or how that doesnt make sense... Apple is an EXTREMELY innovative company, especially when it comes to designing computers! If they have diagonal pci slots, you gotta know that they figured out a way for this to work! If they have a rotating drive slot, they figured out a way for this to work as well.

All this seems totally plausible to me and right in line with the radical designs apple comes with. Thats why we love them so much. They think waayyy ahead of all the other CPU makers. Now, granted sometimes they get a little too cute but overall they are very consistant in their design and thinking. I'd like to bet some of you that what was described is probably dead on. I believe Apple may have two boxes with different colors. Why, one for PRO USERS and one for CONSUMER USERS. This would be another example of their forward thinking. Anyway, that just my 5cents. Back to the sidelines now.

Sun Baked
Jun 18, 2003, 12:23 PM
Did I miss the description of the spiffy new keyboard?

Though the last new eMac keyboard, may of may not be a hint of Apple's color scheme.

indar20
Jun 18, 2003, 12:25 PM
i think that people are missing the point of the diagonal pci slots. if this part is to be believed, then clearly the case is just too thin to fit pci cards horizontally (if the case is in the tower position), and apple wanted more pci slots than could fit vertically. rotating the pci slots is an elegant and simple solution--the kind that apple is known for.
however, there is one part of the description that people are simply overlooking. the report discusses a removeable, rotatable drive bay. in order for this to work in a normal computer case, the face of the drive bay would have to be square. however, the fact that there are 5 drive slots suggests otherwise--there is simply no way that the computer could be too thin to fit pci cards horizontally, and thick enough to put 5 drive slots vertically. the only solution that i see is for the drive bay to be exposed on the top and sides. this would also necessitate a rectangular 'cut' in the case. ive included a kidpix mockup (at least i tried to--i dont know how to post pictures so this might not work).

note! im not saying i think this is how the case will look--im just saying that this would be necessary given the description.

peace.

JBracy
Jun 18, 2003, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by indar20
i think that people are missing the point of the diagonal pci slots. if this part is to be believed, then clearly the case is just too thin to fit pci cards horizontally (if the case is in the tower position), and apple wanted more pci slots than could fit vertically. rotating the pci slots is an elegant and simple solution--the kind that apple is known for.
however, there is one part of the description that people are simply overlooking. the report discusses a removeable, rotatable drive bay. in order for this to work in a normal computer case, the face of the drive bay would have to be square. however, the fact that there are 5 drive slots suggests otherwise--there is simply no way that the computer could be too thin to fit pci cards horizontally, and thick enough to put 5 drive slots vertically. the only solution that i see is for the drive bay to be exposed on the top and sides. this would also necessitate a rectangular 'cut' in the case. ive included a kidpix mockup (at least i tried to--i dont know how to post pictures so this might not work).

note! im not saying i think this is how the case will look--im just saying that this would be necessary given the description.

peace.

You're assuming that all 5 drive bays are in the rotating enclosure. It says that there is "space for 5 drives" It does not say if this is total or just in the removable rotating enclosure.

mislabeledstar
Jun 18, 2003, 12:33 PM
Originally posted by Haenk
[rough translation]

HILDE wrote:
Speed:
2GHz single and DualCore with Hypertransport 500MHz
2.4GHz DualCore with Hypertransport 600MHz
[edit: some typos fixed]

do you believe by "dualcore" they mean dual processor? 970's don't have "dualcores" correct?

indar20
Jun 18, 2003, 12:39 PM
Originally posted by JBracy
You're assuming that all 5 drive bays are in the rotating enclosure. It says that there is "space for 5 drives" It does not say if this is total or just in the removable rotating enclosure.

very good point . . . i did not think of that.

peace

jettredmont
Jun 18, 2003, 12:42 PM
Originally posted by RHutch
Try this scenario:

A current Mac user has several USB 1.1 peripherals and 2 USB 2.0 peripherals. They connect everything to a USB 1.1 hub they have had for a while. Currently it doesn't matter, since they can't take advantage of the increased speed of USB 2.0 on their Mac anyway.

Now new Macs come out with only 2 USB 2.0 ports and no USB 1.1 ports. They connect one of the 2.0 peripherals to one of the USB 2.0 ports. They connect the rest of their peripherals to the hub and connec the hub to the other USB 2.0 port on the machine. The USB 2.0 peripheral connected to the hub will not get USB 2.0 speed. But if you plug the peripheral into the other port on the machine, what do you do with all of the USB 1.1 peripherals?

I suppose that you could plug and unplug everytime you wanted to use a different peripheral. But I think that there might be reason to leave a regular USB port on the machine.

I'm sure someone will correct me if I'm wrong.

You are wrong.

Even if both ports were on the same root hub (which may or may not be the case), in order to qualify as a USB 2.0 hub the hub must be able to simultaneously service "Hi-Speed" (2.0) devices at full speed and 1.1/1.0 devices at their full speed.

Now, if the theoretical Mac user above attempted to plug their 2.0 device into a 1.1 hub, then, yes, they would not get a high-speed connection. This is because of the hub "in the middle", though, not because somewhere on the tree of devices there is a 1.1 device!

VIREBEL661
Jun 18, 2003, 01:01 PM
Originally posted by Ugg
An interesting photo at www.macguardians.de Looks a heck of a lot more appealing than the other one.

It also lists the specs which sound pretty darned nice

THAT PICTURE ROCKS!!!! Fits in with Apple's elegant design too... BRING 'EM ON BABY!!!

gralem
Jun 18, 2003, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by groovebuster
Errmm... maybe because Apple is selling their products world-wide and product launches are normally world-wide at the same date?

So tell me why someone in Germany should have NOT access to these boxes??? Or do you think that Apple products are USA exclusive for 3 months before other "unworthy" nationalities can get their hands on them?

Nice little world you are living in! :rolleyes: ;)

groovebuster


At least I'm living in reality. I'm not saying "USA IS BEST". I'm saying:

If this is such a top-secret deal, and Apple has *ZERO* apple-branded stores in Germany, than why would Apple pre-send this hardware to anyone who isn't duty-bound to keep the boxes sealed until monday.

I'm just evaluating the likelyhood that Apple would pre-ship to EVERY LITTLE vendor these boxes that are so secret. I have not heard word of ANY boxes being shipped to anything but APPLE-BRANDED stores.

First, there has to be a presumption that these rumored "boxes" to the apple stores contain computer hardware and not display items.

Second, there has to be a presumtion that Apple is pre-seeding EVERY LITTLE vendor with the same top-secret hardware. Not necessary since they can FED-EX anything and have it there Monday afternoon or Tuesday morning.

Third, (I'm not saying this is the best business practice) it is a FACT that Apple generally makes its equipment and software available in the US first. For example, *IF* new hardware is announced and even made available at WWDC, that exact same hardware may be listed at the apple UK store (http://www.apple.com/uk/thestore/) that day, but not ship for 2 weeks.

Fourth, there have been a remarkably poor track record of rumors coming out of Germany. I named the last big fake (iWalk). Can you name the last big success?

Please don't jump to the idiotic conclusion that I'm anti-german or something. I'm not jumping to the conclusion that you are illogical! You just didn't think it out.

---gralem

bertagert
Jun 18, 2003, 01:04 PM
Originally posted by noverflow
When did the mac become a sony pc?
bluetooth logos?
970 logos?
Last time i saw a logo on a mac wass a powerpc logo.


maybe Apple now reconizes that people who use PC's are the same people who leave the stickers on their digital cameras, printers and scanners. They figure those people have lots of money and wanted them to have something they're used too?

gotohamish
Jun 18, 2003, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by soggywulf
Ever tried removing or replacing your optical drive?

Er, yeah, lots. it takes about 5 whole minutes! Really simple too!

Veldek
Jun 18, 2003, 01:09 PM
Originally posted by jbh001
65cm is just over 2 feet long.

Picture how odd it would be to have something 6 inches wide and as deep as a standard filing cabinet.

He already corrected himself and said it was a typo. He meant 55 cm with handles and even less if you don't count the handles in.

jimthorn
Jun 18, 2003, 01:13 PM
Originally posted by soggywulf
Halleluiah, a vertical drive box that can be easily removed! What a complete pain it is in our current B&W-style cases. Even my ancient Dell has a hinged swinging vert drive holder.

That would also be convenient for rack mounting, if you turned the tower 90 degrees on its side, you could turn the optical drive box too.

But my money's on the other design from yesterday, the photo the guy "smuggled out in his pants". :)

nagromme
Jun 18, 2003, 01:13 PM
Nothing said here makes sense out of having USB 1.1 and USB 2.0 ports both. They are the same physical size/shape, unlike FW400/800. USB 2.0 doesn't slow down because of 1.1 peripherals--and if it did, that would be a reason to have more than one 2.0 bus--not a reason to have one bus be 1.1-only. And USB 2.0 is not expensive either. Its not as if having all ports support BOTH 1.1 and 2.0 would make the price go through the roof. Look at all the PCs with USB 2.0 ports. Do any have separate 1.1 ports too? No. No reason to. It would only be confusing.

(The Macguardians "photo" is a 3D render by the way)

soggywulf
Jun 18, 2003, 01:24 PM
Originally posted by gotohamish
Er, yeah, lots. it takes about 5 whole minutes! Really simple too!

Really? On my QS I have to pop out the lower plastic tab on the front, remove a bunch of screws, and then deal with the nightmare of squeezing the trolley out with all sorts of protrusions getting in the way at every which angle! I'm amazed I got it out at all. Reminds me of the sofa on Richard MacDuff's stairs.

Wonder Boy
Jun 18, 2003, 01:34 PM
if it's true...

Awsome, F*@#ing Awsome!

bignumbers
Jun 18, 2003, 01:40 PM
The most plausable description thus far.

The only thing I hope isn't accurate is there was no mention of USB on the front, and only one FW port. To be a clean machine like Steve likes (fewer cables) and a good "digital hub" we need a few of each on both back and front.

Fun to think about though.

Vlade
Jun 18, 2003, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by soggywulf
Really? On my QS I have to pop out the lower plastic tab on the front, remove a bunch of screws, and then deal with the nightmare of squeezing the trolley out with all sorts of protrusions getting in the way at every which angle! I'm amazed I got it out at all. Reminds me of the sofa on Richard MacDuff's stairs.

On my QS I replaced the stock 12X drive with a 52X one from a staples rebate, and it was pretty simple. I learned that power supply cords are VERY tight and to use pliers.

jihad the movie
Jun 18, 2003, 02:08 PM
Remember that white plastic thing, said to be produced in Asia awhile back.... Doesn't that seem like something that could be used to switch the orientation of two optical drives? I can't find a link to it now, but I remember that as something posted up as a rumor here and on appleinsider awhile back.....



here we go:

Here is a messageboard reference to it:



http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=21160&highlight=white+plastic

gotohamish
Jun 18, 2003, 02:11 PM
Originally posted by soggywulf
Really? On my QS I have to pop out the lower plastic tab on the front, remove a bunch of screws, and then deal with the nightmare of squeezing the trolley out with all sorts of protrusions getting in the way at every which angle! I'm amazed I got it out at all. Reminds me of the sofa on Richard MacDuff's stairs.

Well, to be fair, one look at the QS and it's obvious that a drive upgrade will not be as simple as the MDD or the Yikes!/Sawtooth/DA models.

fraggle
Jun 18, 2003, 02:31 PM
Originally posted by MikeH
And back to the point at hand:- This version sounds great, but I'm taking it with a pinch of salt. A two buttons mouse would be fantastic (for me), but I'd be suprised if Steevo allows it.


The NeXT Cube had a two button mouse...

BaghdadBob
Jun 18, 2003, 02:37 PM
Originally posted by groovebuster
Errmm... maybe because Apple is selling their products world-wide and product launches are normally world-wide at the same date?

So tell me why someone in Germany should have NOT access to these boxes??? Or do you think that Apple products are USA exclusive for 3 months before other "unworthy" nationalities can get their hands on them?

Nice little world you are living in! :rolleyes: ;)
Oh get off your soapbox. Not that you haven't already been replied to, but the idea that any vendor outside the US has these boxes is even assuming the products will be ready to be sold on Monday! Nice little world you are living in, my friend!

Before all you international types start accusing Americans of arrogant superiority isolationism, maybe you should introspect what attitude your accusations stem from.

Back OT, I remember one year I was in the bleachers for the big annual rivalry football game, and a ref made a rediculously bad PI call. The crowd (starting with me and my rowdy friends) started chanting something that I think is about appropriate for this article:

"Bull-****!"
"Bull-****!"
"Bull-****!"

Totally.

JBracy
Jun 18, 2003, 02:44 PM
Originally posted by BaghdadBob
Oh get off your soapbox. Not that you haven't already been replied to, but the idea that any vendor outside the US has these boxes is even assuming the products will be ready to be sold on Monday! Nice little world you are living in, my friend!

Before all you international types start accusing Americans of arrogant superiority isolationism, maybe you should introspect what attitude your accusations stem from.

Back OT, I remember one year I was in the bleachers for the big annual rivalry football game, and a ref made a rediculously bad PI call. The crowd (starting with me and my rowdy friends) started chanting something that I think is about appropriate for this article:

"Bull-****!"
"Bull-****!"
"Bull-****!"

Totally.

Actuall you are the one who needs to do a little introspecting. The facts are:

1) international shipping is notoriously dicey, so if Apple wanted to ensure that they would be in the retail chain on time they would have sent them last week.
2) As I mentioned before - Apple does NOT have actual Apple owned stores in Europe, so who do you think will get these? Cancom and FNAC. They are the 2 largest Apple Authorized retail stores in Europe.

PaisanoMan
Jun 18, 2003, 02:46 PM
Originally posted by pivo6
I had the same reaction. Why diagonal? It can't be to save space. It makes little sense to me.

Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there are strict specifications regarding the size, position, spacing, and all other physical aspects of PCI slots. I don't think any form of diagonal cards could be called "PCI slots," because they wouldn't conform to the specification.

It just doesn't seem necessary (the airflow hypothesis doesn't make any sense, either).

BaghdadBob
Jun 18, 2003, 02:48 PM
Originally posted by JBracy
Actuall you are the one who needs to do a little introspecting. The facts are:

1) international shipping is notoriously dicey, so if Apple wanted to ensure that they would be in the retail chain on time they would have sent them last week.
2) As I mentioned before - Apple does NOT have actual Apple owned stores in Europe, so who do you think will get these? Cancom and FNAC. They are the 2 largest Apple Authorized retail stores in Europe.

Ahem...HELLO!!!

Are you under the impression that these will be ready to sell on Monday? I thought most of the members around here had given up such fantasies and resigned themselves to the fact that although the 970 may well be primo'd at WWDC, they are almost definitely NOT going to be shipping for another couple of months.

Maybe I'm just being pessimistic :rolleyes:

Ayre
Jun 18, 2003, 02:50 PM
Originally posted by Ugg
An interesting photo at www.macguardians.de Looks a heck of a lot more appealing than the other one.

It also lists the specs which sound pretty darned nice

Does anyone have a cache or an image of what he's talking about? The page seems to be down, and Google won't let me view its cache.

JBracy
Jun 18, 2003, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by BaghdadBob
Ahem...HELLO!!!

Are you under the impression that these will be ready to sell on Monday? I thought most of the members around here had given up such fantasies and resigned themselves to the fact that although the 970 may well be primo'd at WWDC, they are almost definitely NOT going to be shipping for another couple of months.

Maybe I'm just being pessimistic :rolleyes:

Who knows? I guess we'll all find out Monday. Why would Cancom and FNAC be recieving boxes of PowerMacs that aren't for sale?

How can anyone have resigned themselves to anything? IT'S ALL RUMORS!!! I can't believe that so many people get so worked up about rumors! Nothing is set in stone, we can't draw any conclusions based on any of the thousands of threads bouncing around. Pure and simply it's all 100% speculation until Steve takes the stage.

JBracy
Jun 18, 2003, 02:58 PM
Originally posted by Ayre
Does anyone have a cache or an image of what he's talking about? The page seems to be down, and Google won't let me view its cache.

It was an old rendering that popped up on SpyMac a few months ago - right after the MDD came out. Nothing to get excited about, it looked nice but if it were real it would fall over due to the curved bottom!

noverflow
Jun 18, 2003, 03:03 PM
Anyone in here besides me ever use a blue tooth mouse?

ok, now how many have used it for photoshop work?

I have the MS blueooth mouse, I CANT use it for graphic work, because it jumps around.

It will loose connection for a sec and when it comes back, the mouse tries to guess where it should be.

if this happens when drawing a curve, it will result in a big straight line in the middle of it.

I for one hope there is not a bluetooth mouse.

Though on an imac, it could be nice because there would be NO wires basically

however, now that the mouse has been changed and is no longer called the "pro mouse" i do think a new mouse is completely possible with two buttons.


hmmm... i thought they changed the name... but on second look, it is still the pro mouse

e-coli
Jun 18, 2003, 03:06 PM
Originally posted by PaisanoMan
Someone correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe there are strict specifications regarding the size, position, spacing, and all other physical aspects of PCI slots. I don't think any form of diagonal cards could be called "PCI slots," because they wouldn't conform to the specification.

It just doesn't seem necessary (the airflow hypothesis doesn't make any sense, either).

You could still have the same size, position, and spacing for the PCI cards, but just have them rotated 45 degrees or so. I don't see the big deal.

groovebuster
Jun 18, 2003, 03:14 PM
Originally posted by gralem
At least I'm living in reality. I'm not saying "USA IS BEST". I'm saying:

I didn't take it that way...

Originally posted by gralem
If this is such a top-secret deal, and Apple has *ZERO* apple-branded stores in Germany, than why would Apple pre-send this hardware to anyone who isn't duty-bound to keep the boxes sealed until monday.

That shows that you don't know anything about dealers in europe. Of course the certified Apple dealers here have an NDA with Apple. That puts them on the same level with Apple stores in the US.

Originally posted by gralem
I'm just evaluating the likelyhood that Apple would pre-ship to EVERY LITTLE vendor these boxes that are so secret. I have not heard word of ANY boxes being shipped to anything but APPLE-BRANDED stores.

Why do you assume that there are only little vendors in europe? I know at least 4 or 5 Apple vendors in Germany who are certified Apple dealers who are likely to have received those boxes.

Second you should inform yourself better. There are several rumors meanwhile about stores in Germany that received those mysterious boxes too.

Originally posted by gralem
First, there has to be a presumption that these rumored "boxes" to the apple stores contain computer hardware and not display items.

That's why we talk about rumors here, right? ;)

Originally posted by gralem
Second, there has to be a presumtion that Apple is pre-seeding EVERY LITTLE vendor with the same top-secret hardware. Not necessary since they can FED-EX anything and have it there Monday afternoon or Tuesday morning.

Two wrong presumptions on your side...

1) (again) Not every vendor is little outside the US.

2) To ship an amount of that many boxes around the world (we are talking about thousands here) isn't that easy. I am pretty sure FedEx wouldn't be very happy to ship 20,000 PowerMacs to Europe or across the USA over one(!) night. It would be almost impossible volume wise. They want to make sure that the stuff is available everywhere with a big bang.

Originally posted by gralem
Third, (I'm not saying this is the best business practice) it is a FACT that Apple generally makes its equipment and software available in the US first. For example, *IF* new hardware is announced and even made available at WWDC, that exact same hardware may be listed at the apple UK store (http://www.apple.com/uk/thestore/) that day, but not ship for 2 weeks.

Not entirely true. Lately at least the hardware was always shipping in europe at the same time as in the US.

Originally posted by gralem
Fourth, there have been a remarkably poor track record of rumors coming out of Germany. I named the last big fake (iWalk). Can you name the last big success?

That doesn't prove that it is not true and has nothing to do with the other points.

Originally posted by gralem
Please don't jump to the idiotic conclusion that I'm anti-german or something.

I never concluded that so thanks that i am not an idiot then. ;)

Originally posted by gralem
I'm not jumping to the conclusion that you are illogical! You just didn't think it out.

Same what I think about you...

Good night from Berlin,

groovebuster

soggywulf
Jun 18, 2003, 03:16 PM
Originally posted by noverflow
It will loose connection for a sec and when it comes back, the mouse tries to guess where it should be.

if this happens when drawing a curve, it will result in a big straight line in the middle of it.

Yuck. I'll keep the MacAlly, thank you.

Originally posted by noverflow
Though on an imac, it could be nice because there would be NO wires basically

One of those old-fashioned infrared mice should work just as well for that. :)

Originally posted by noverflow
however, now that the mouse has been changed and is no longer called the "pro mouse" i do think a new mouse is completely possible with two buttons

Amen. Don't forget the scrollwheel, Apple.

groovebuster
Jun 18, 2003, 03:25 PM
First... calm down! ;)

Originally posted by BaghdadBob
Oh get off your soapbox. Not that you haven't already been replied to, but the idea that any vendor outside the US has these boxes is even assuming the products will be ready to be sold on Monday! Nice little world you are living in, my friend!

So far nobody knows for sure what is in these boxes anyway. But there is a big event in Berlin for the press when Jobs has his keynote at the WWDC, whatever will be sold from monday on in the stores, it will be available immediately also in Europe at certified Apple dealers.

Originally posted by BaghdadBob
Before all you international types start accusing Americans of arrogant superiority isolationism, maybe you should introspect what attitude your accusations stem from.

*yawn* ... finished? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by BaghdadBob
Back OT, I remember one year I was in the bleachers for the big annual rivalry football game, and a ref made a rediculously bad PI call. The crowd (starting with me and my rowdy friends) started chanting something that I think is about appropriate for this article:

"Bull-****!"
"Bull-****!"
"Bull-****!"

Totally.

What is so special about football that you had to highlightfoot?

Very interesting that you like football... :rolleyes:

We'll see. Maybe I am wrong, maybe I am right...

groovebuster

toekook
Jun 18, 2003, 03:38 PM
All this could be so much easier if people just dragged simple digital camera's with them and posted the pics on the net.

seamuskrat
Jun 18, 2003, 03:44 PM
OK-
I think its total BS.
Reasoning:
1. Dual core 970? At first I thought it was a translational thing until it later said Dual core = two cores on chip (singular).
We know beyond any doubt that the 970 will be a single core microporcessor. The 980 will be capable of having multiple cores, not the 970.
So, this just shows the posters general ignorance of the situation, or some other grievous error.

2. Regardless of NDA aggreements, I find it hard to believe that actual local retailers have these machines. I can say that I do part time work at an Apple branded retail store, and here in the US in California, we have no stash of mysterious boxes. That said, if we got stor epromo materials, they would be courier delivered or FEDEX delivered Saturday or Sunday to us. But I just don't think the announcement of the single most important release in the history of Apple in the past decade would be sitting in local retailer store rooms worldwide.

3. The kitchen sink theorey. This rumor tossed in every other rumor out there. They left none behind, possibly in the hopes that if they get 65% correct they did good. Its all a shotgun approach.

4. Box/manual/System Profiler
If they copied the box, which would have the stats, then we would also know videocard (a big mystery and an important fact), system software version, bundled software, etc. I do not think unless major changes ocurred to the box dsign, the details of pivoting drive bays, or diagnol PCI slots would make it on the box. If they read the manual, then they would have the same data with more detail. If they turned it on, then they would have even more, which was not provided.

5. Blue tooth ADC 2 connection? What is this? Bluetooth connection to a wireless monitor? Bullshi*. And if the machine has BT builtin, y9ou do not need it in the monitor as well. Just doesn't make any technical sense.

gralem
Jun 18, 2003, 03:44 PM
Originally posted by groovebuster
I didn't take it that way...

Good night from Berlin,

groovebuster

Yes, you DID take it that way.

I'll leave it with this. Forget all of my other points.

0)This whole story is a bunch of crap--it's a stupid story and no PROOF can be given that boxes were actually opened.
1)NO STORE OTHER THAN APPLE-BRANDED STORES ARE REPORTED GETTING BOXES (and the boxes may not even contain hardware or even pictures of hardware).
2)There is no apple-branded store in .de
3)This whole story is a bunch of crap--no boxes in .de.

Let's discuss after WWDC when the FACTS are known.

---gralem

PixelBoy
Jun 18, 2003, 03:53 PM
You could still have the same size, position, and spacing for the PCI cards, but just have them rotated 45 degrees or so. I don't see the big deal.

In general I don't see it as a big deal either, but some cards are designed to take two of the standard back-plane openings. For instance the lastest high-end Geforce FX cards, or the Perception Video Recorder. So having them set at a diagonal would make these cards unusable. Granted there are very few of those types of cards out there, but it is a drawback.

I guess we'll see (or not) in a few days huh? The biggest surprise I see with this rumor is the suggestion of dual-core processors (and the clock ratings). IBM hasn't announced such a chip yet, although that could be at Apple's request. I think it would be sweet if it is true. I personally don't ever care to go back to single processor computers ever again (except in laptops, where it makes sense). Both my PC and Mac are dual now, and I like it that way. Single processor (with single core) computers would be a definite "no-buy" for me.

DamnDJ
Jun 18, 2003, 04:09 PM
Originally posted by PixelBoy
In general I don't see it as a big deal either, but some cards are designed to take two of the standard back-plane openings. For instance the lastest high-end Geforce FX cards, or the Perception Video Recorder.

Since when is Apple concerned about standards? :D

And I think the GeForce FX will be the first (and last) cards to take up dual slots. The new GeForce's will not have this. Pretty much a non-issue.

tysonrinderknec
Jun 18, 2003, 04:57 PM
ok, havent read the entire thread yet....so help me if this has been brought up.

Has anyone else read the hole text in german? It says taht this guy tried to boot it from a FW HD (10.2.6) and it didn't work...thats why he couldn't test the thing running. He says it defenetly needs 10.2.7 to run.

Please correct me if im wrong, but when has apple ever shipped a computer without an OS installed? Or more relevent, whens the last time and if so, why?

this is just one of the things that smell fishy about this roumor.

Its funny how gaga people over at the spymac threads are going over this.

tysonrinderknec
Jun 18, 2003, 05:01 PM
umm, for the guy that said ther are no apple branded stores in germany...im not sure *exactly* what you mean by that, but Gravis is an all apple store in germany...very popular.

I would say they compare to apple stores very closely, although ive never been in one (apple store). They also recieved 20in cinema displays days after they were announced.

not to fule this fire though...i don't take this roumor seriously.

Moonlight
Jun 18, 2003, 05:13 PM
Yea right, like apple would put a bluetooth logo on the front of the powermac...:rolleyes: Puuuhhleeeesssee !

Bob Knob
Jun 18, 2003, 05:13 PM
Originally posted by tysonrinderknec
ok, havent read the entire thread yet....so help me if this has been brought up.

Has anyone else read the hole text in german? It says taht this guy tried to boot it from a FW HD (10.2.6) and it didn't work...thats why he couldn't test the thing running. He says it defenetly needs 10.2.7 to run.

Please correct me if im wrong, but when has apple ever shipped a computer without an OS installed? Or more relevent, whens the last time and if so, why?

If you boot a new computer it will have you set it up (user and so on), if you boot from a drive already set up you don't have to set up anything on the computer. If this was unpacked, tested and repacked no one would be able to tell. I'm not saying the whole story is true or not, but that part seems reasonable to me.

MikeH
Jun 18, 2003, 05:21 PM
The NeXT Cube had a two button mouse...

I stand corrected and I live in hope...

Kal-EL
Jun 18, 2003, 05:45 PM
Originally posted by tysonrinderknec
ok, havent read the entire thread yet....so help me if this has been brought up.

Has anyone else read the hole text in german? It says taht this guy tried to boot it from a FW HD (10.2.6) and it didn't work...thats why he couldn't test the thing running. He says it defenetly needs 10.2.7 to run.

Please correct me if im wrong, but when has apple ever shipped a computer without an OS installed? Or more relevent, whens the last time and if so, why?

this is just one of the things that smell fishy about this roumor.

Its funny how gaga people over at the spymac threads are going over this.

I read the entire German text and this is what I got out of it: He says that he brought his Firewire hard drive with OS 10.2.6 installed and that the computer required 10.2.7 (which means that is what it is shipping with). That doesn't mean that there is no OS on the computer, what it means is that the computer is incapable of booting up on anything less than 10.2.7. Like when I had my first G3. It came with OS8 installed and I upgraded all the way through to OSX. During it's tenure, I bought Norton Utilities and could always boot from the CD when problems arose as it had a 9.0 system folder on it. When I bought my G4 500Mh DP, I could never get the machine to boot from the Norton CD and couldn't figure out why. I eventually figured out that the computer came with OS 9.1 pre installed and couldn't boot from anything less, not even the original OS9.0 installation CD. Same thing here. The 970 (if it really exists), as described, can't boot up from 10.2.6. It only knows 10.2.7 and later.

phranque27
Jun 18, 2003, 06:24 PM
What's reallly funny about this 'rumor' is that Apple has apparently decided to just start shipping random computers to resellers that haven't even ordered them. Last I checked, resellers were only allowed to order products that actually EXIST, because only announced products have SKUs.

But hey, I could be wrong. Perhaps apple's new strategy is to just ship computers to resellers at random and see what they think.

Maybe they'll ship me one! :)

TitaniumBook
Jun 18, 2003, 06:27 PM
Originally posted by noverflow
I have the MS blueooth mouse, I CANT use it for graphic work, because it jumps around.

It will loose connection for a sec and when it comes back, the mouse tries to guess where it should be.
Why do you assume that it's bluetooth's fault? Surely it's the Microsoft Label on that mouse that's causing all the problems. Come on you guys! Someone on this thread should have been all over that by now.
On the mac platform it will be as smooth as a baby's bum, and twice as cute. Soon there will be irons and printers that echo it's design cues. It'll change the world.

I love all this hype. It's this kind of hyper-sensitive rumor feeding frenzy that makes me proud to be a Mac user. Well done chaps/chapettes!

tazznb
Jun 18, 2003, 06:38 PM
Originally posted by gralem
This page2 article is a prime example of what I like to call COMPLETE CRAP! If he opened the box, where's the photo? Why would someone in GERMANY have access to these boxes? Remember the famous "german" iwalk video from spymac?

We'll see next week.

---gralem

If this article is true it'll be awhile before I let you live it down.

If you are right I'll SELF-BAN myself from this site.... for at least 10 minutes (quite a task I might add.) :)

I really hope it is true. Some of the things said were left out; I had it translated.

I really think the guy would be asking for trouble taking a photo of the thing, and could possibly create a trail that would get him / her nailed.:eek:

tazznb
Jun 18, 2003, 07:09 PM
Originally posted by Ugg
An interesting photo at www.macguardians.de Looks a heck of a lot more appealing than the other one.

It also lists the specs which sound pretty darned nice

Hello leude, was with a buddy with a large MacShop works yesterday - I may not say city and Shopname, otherwise issa its job loosely. Those gekriegt new computers and it actually concern the new 970-Rechner the day before yesterday with warscheinlich Mac OS X 10.2.7. I thus after yesterday after end of workday immediately there: Oversize housing stands however nix from G5 or so - simply only for power Macintosh 970. The computers gibts in grey plastics with aluminum or in knows with Aluminum, whereby grey plastics the touched optics aufweiist and the white is completely white. The picture that circulates here is definitv a Fake. The computers are not so rectangular and do not exhibit also slit air intakes, but holes above and down on the front side upward expenditure-curves, similarly those of the emacs. The computers unload forward and above on the Fronseite bulgy and have ALL a DVD Writer!! At the flanks they are disguised with aluminum, whereby the right linings can be away-folded downward. Above and down the computer in each case 2 polished ones has trapezoidal steel brackets. The pits for the drive assemblies are in a herausziebaren quatratischen box (on that the Logo and the label power Macintosh 970 are) inserted around 90 the degrees to be turned can around the computer as Desktop or as Tower use. This drawer contains inclusive. DVD Writer 4!!! Pits. On the front is one Firewire 800/400 bus as well as headphone USB (2??) and Mic and a small hemisphere with the Bluetooth logo more drunter. Dadrueber bfinden themselves the 3 appletypischen buttons and a chromed loudspeaker. On the back are 1 Firewire, 1 Frewire 800, 2x USB, 1x USB 2, network, ADC, DVI, as well as 4 diagonally!!! arranged Blechverkeidungen for the PCI card locations as well as loudspeaker, Mic, etc.. The housing is approx. 15 cm broad 65 cm high and 40 cm deeply. A new aluminum/white keyboard and optical 2 a palpation mouse with a really unusual Scrollrad made of aluminum is, however without cables however with the same halbkugle in front darann as on the PPC housing. Of my bring along Mac OSX 10,2,6 Firewire non removable disk did not start the computer however, so that we could not put on it unfortunately (one would have had to personalisieren the system), therefore I go of it out of there at least to 10,2,7 drauf be must or sone kind more enabler for the PPC 970 processor. Unfortunately we did not have enough time the crate fully auszuchecken, since the guard service should come soon, but it is BEAUTIFUL!!!! special however if one imagines the new displays beside it - those saw now also these polished steel brackets as stands and somehow in-ACMASSIVELY out, have however additionally a fine aluminum framework. Funnier point are on the left flank of the PPC housing small slots in-punched into this the handles exaxt fit in, so that one uses if one the computer as Desktop with a Apple display this on the computer be placed can without to verutschen!!!! Unfortunately I cannot make a statement about clocking the processor, it was however only one processor in it. On the radiator dual core/hypertransport stood, however white I not which that mean can. It was with more exact view only one processor under it so that the radiator of the dual processor was probably blocked here. The people in shop do not have in all other respects knitted to instruction information outward to carry - otherwise summary dismissal threatens - therefore please I around understanding for the bad indication of pouring!!! =============== Arno: What would one recognize sound 5.1I/O? In the packing at least no boxes were or sowas in it are technically not so experienced unfortunately I, and it is quite possible, which I unite that from me described connections interpreted wrong. However I can say one with certainty: that more connections to were than on my soon dual become outdated hopelessly 1.25 - crate there. Solder: Wrong does to me, if I made the speculations here the niece - however it..... This is where I reached the max limit on words.

Enjoy!

tysonrinderknec
Jun 18, 2003, 07:12 PM
Originally posted by phranque27
What's reallly funny about this 'rumor' is that Apple has apparently decided to just start shipping random computers to resellers that haven't even ordered them. Last I checked, resellers were only allowed to order products that actually EXIST

heh, true dat!

gralem
Jun 18, 2003, 08:11 PM
Originally posted by tysonrinderknec
umm, for the guy that said ther are no apple branded stores in germany...im not sure *exactly* what you mean by that, but Gravis is an all apple store in germany...very popular.

I would say they compare to apple stores very closely, although ive never been in one (apple store). They also recieved 20in cinema displays days after they were announced.

not to fule this fire though...i don't take this roumor seriously.

Yeah, you just don't get it either. Gravis is not fully owned and operated by Apple, is it? What is so difficult to understand about my statements?!!

It is not an "Apple Store". That is what an "Apple branded" store means.

Geez!

The rumor is still crap.

XnavxeMiyyep
Jun 18, 2003, 10:05 PM
No Mac would be effected by a number that came after the second decimal, as it is a free upgrade. I would understand if it required 10.3, but the difference between 10.2.6 and 10.2.7 is no more than the difference between 9.2.1 and 9.2.2, which is not enough to make a difference in ability to boot a Powermac.

So either it is a fake, or the person just made a mistake in guessing it required 10.2.7. Then again, it could just be a fake for the various other reasons...

mathiasr
Jun 18, 2003, 10:29 PM
Originally posted by XnavxeMiyyep
No Mac would be effected by a number that came after the second decimal, as it is a free upgrade. I would understand if it required 10.3, but the difference between 10.2.6 and 10.2.7 is no more than the difference between 9.2.1 and 9.2.2, which is not enough to make a difference in ability to boot a Powermac.
The early x100 PowerMacs shipped with System 7.1.2, it was the first OS that was able to boot a PowerPC Mac, System 7.5 came later on.

cgc
Jun 18, 2003, 10:32 PM
Originally posted by blakespot
Why would you need to rotate the slots depending upon desktop or tower orientation? A PCI card is not going to have a problem even if it's upside down with a card in it. Sounds like some false info from someone who has some strange ideas about the way slots must be oriented (ie, not Apple).


blakespot

Maybe to help dissipate heat depending on which way the tower is oriented.

XnavxeMiyyep
Jun 18, 2003, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by mathiasr
The early x100 PowerMacs shipped with System 7.1.2, it was the first OS that was able to boot a PowerPC Mac, System 7.5 came later on.
I stand corrected.

Sun Baked
Jun 18, 2003, 10:41 PM
Originally posted by XnavxeMiyyep
No Mac would be effected by a number that came after the second decimal, as it is a free upgrade. I would understand if it required 10.3, but the difference between 10.2.6 and 10.2.7 is no more than the difference between 9.2.1 and 9.2.2, which is not enough to make a difference in ability to boot a Powermac.

So either it is a fake, or the person just made a mistake in guessing it required 10.2.7. Then again, it could just be a fake for the various other reasons... And I would have thought that significant hardware changes would have required an updated OS version, since they usually carried the upgraded ROM files and Applications that new hardware required.

In OS 1 to 9, new machines routinely needed updated ROMs, extensions, control panels, etc. to make sure that all the spiffy new features that came with new machines worked with the OS.

I would have thought now that the OS 9 is dead, the new machines will probably routinely break the current OS once again -- since there's no reason to hold hardware semi-stable for OS 9 -- thus requiring the next version of the OS to run.

Thanks for setting us straight.

mim
Jun 18, 2003, 11:01 PM
Originally posted by gralem
Yeah, you just don't get it either. Gravis is not fully owned and operated by Apple, is it? What is so difficult to understand about my statements?!!

It is not an "Apple Store". That is what an "Apple branded" store means.

Geez!

The rumor is still crap.

You appear to be basing your whole argument (that the rumor is false) around the fact that Europe doesn't have Apple Stores.

You seem to think that Apple, who are probably coming out with a new product that they want an international launch for (hence the Berlin invite) would ship boxes only to Apple stores? And they wouldn't ship boxes to their largest distributors in Europe? So Europe would not have the goods at the time of launch?

Do you think the Europeans don't want their new Mac's as soon as you do?

There are plenty of reasons why this rumor might be false, but I think your 'boxes' theory is not terribly valid.

toekook
Jun 18, 2003, 11:21 PM
What's with this Gralem guy? Why is he so agressive? Can't he join the US-army and go shoot some foreigners in some godforsaken oilrich country while his president covers him? No offence intented;-)

Not everything from the US is better, faster or bigger. It might come as a shock to you, but OUTSIDE of the US sometimes things happen too.

But anyway, on Monday the truth will be reveiled.

Don't forget to take your Retalin, Gralem if things turn out to be true.......

beefstu01
Jun 18, 2003, 11:46 PM
Originally posted by bertagert
maybe Apple now reconizes that people who use PC's are the same people who leave the stickers on their digital cameras, printers and scanners. They figure those people have lots of money and wanted them to have something they're used too?

Duuuuude, I want to put a "Type-R" sticker on my Power Mac! Then a "Nos" sticker... you think those'll boost the power enough?

groovebuster
Jun 19, 2003, 12:20 AM
Originally posted by gralem
Yes, you DID take it that way.

Hey, cool! You can read minds?

Maybe you should apply for the NSA? I am sure they are despereate for people like you! ;)

Dude, be nice and stop telling me what I am thinking. Because if you really mean that, you called me an idiot in your first post and I am sure you don't really wonna know how it is when I start acting like one! ;)

Originally posted by toekook
It might come as a shock to you, but OUTSIDE of the US sometimes things happen too.

Stop bashing the US and it's citizens you anti-american international communist guy!!! ;)

Originally posted by toekook
But anyway, on Monday the truth will be reveiled.

Yup! And I have no problem to stand corrected when I was wrong. But if I was right, it will be my personal pleasure to rub it into the face of this weird acting guy who is getting a heart-attack when Apple products are launched not exclusively in Apple branded stores in the US! ;)

Originally posted by toekook
Don't forget to take your Retalin, Gralem if things turn out to be true......

:D

groovebuster

n00bieriffic
Jun 19, 2003, 03:16 AM
About the mouse: The mice that come with the new eMacs now just say "Mouse" on the bottom instead of "Pro Mouse". It is likely we will see a change in the mouse.

RandomDeadHead
Jun 19, 2003, 05:32 AM
Duuuuude, I want to put a "Type-R" sticker on my Power Mac! Then a "Nos" sticker... you think those'll boost the power enough

LOL, ME TOO!

I want a big powered by ---- sticker. Doesnt matter what, just powered by something.

Oh, oh, and a sticker on it advertising something it doesnt have! Mabe some form of linux sticker, A little potrait of Tux would fit the bill! Stuck right becide the bluetooth sticker, a usb 2 sticker, and the Powered by (fill-in-the-blank) sticker!

And while were at it, a IBM inside sticker!

jihad the movie
Jun 19, 2003, 05:42 AM
Is this what you had in mind?


http://m6.hwgn.net/articles/rice_case2/index.shtml


You don't get any more Type-R than that.

PaisanoMan
Jun 19, 2003, 05:45 AM
Originally posted by DamnDJ
Since when is Apple concerned about standards? :D

And I think the GeForce FX will be the first (and last) cards to take up dual slots. The new GeForce's will not have this. Pretty much a non-issue.

They are not nearly the first -- many workstation cards (i.e. higher-end CAD, DCC boards) and server cards (i.e. telephony) take up more than one slot.

Macs have not traditionally been used in these markets, but I think it's very naive to think Apple could just "innovate" and disregard a standard as ubiquitous and widespread as PCI*. Apple relies on cross-platform standards to stay competitive with Windows.

(*Again, I'm not certain that the size and position of the slots are part of the spec, which was my original question.)

yossele
Jun 19, 2003, 06:33 AM
"There is no "G5" shown on the outer hull, just PowerMacintosh 970. The Computers are there is two versions. Grey plastic with Aluminium or white plastic with Aluminium. The grey version has got the grill optic (grey stripes), the white is completely white, no structure".

Check out this link it cofirms the above specs:

http://www.fullpoint.com/listinoApple.html

Check out the last 2 lines!!!????

soggywulf
Jun 19, 2003, 06:51 AM
Originally posted by PaisanoMan
They are not nearly the first -- many workstation cards (i.e. higher-end CAD, DCC boards) and server cards (i.e. telephony) take up more than one slot.

Absolutely. The slots had _better_ not be diagonal. Especially since it would cause us to miss the FX card (which we don't even have yet, let alone future geforces). And I don't see why "dual-slot" (not on the mobo of course, just the phys dims) AGP cards shouldn't becaome _more_ prevalent, given that more power = more clockspeeds = more heatsinks for any given chip.

Diagonal slots--what a useless thing to do. It doesn't make anything thinner, since you are limited by the width of the superdrive anyway. That's the thing that most convinces me that this is a hoax, which is too bad since there's some other good stuff there.

groovebuster
Jun 19, 2003, 07:25 AM
Originally posted by yossele
Check out this link it cofirms the above specs:

http://www.fullpoint.com/listinoApple.html

Check out the last 2 lines!!!????

So we will have a G5 and a 970? How likely is that?

Maybe they don't have any precise info anyway so far and just wrote anything to attract customers?

groovebuster

mykuki
Jun 19, 2003, 07:29 AM
Originally posted by yossele
"There is no "G5" shown on the outer hull, just PowerMacintosh 970. The Computers are there is two versions. Grey plastic with Aluminium or white plastic with Aluminium. The grey version has got the grill optic (grey stripes), the white is completely white, no structure".

Check out this link it cofirms the above specs:

http://www.fullpoint.com/listinoApple.html

Check out the last 2 lines!!!????

mmh... G5 and 970 side by side?
did anyone think of that as a possibility?

i'm not very much into this processor names thing, but i guess the G5 might actually just be a new G4. please correct me if i'm wrong. :rolleyes:

on the other hand, why are both powermacs listed as IBM/Motorola? Not very convincing.

and by the way: fullpoint.com doesn't seem to have that much of a tight connection to apple.

FNAC, Gravis and Cancom at least do have.

Ahh, i just don't know.:confused:

and i just shouldn't care either. so much to do for me, and i keep reading f*# rumors. grr :mad:

groovebuster
Jun 19, 2003, 07:40 AM
Originally posted by soggywulf
Diagonal slots--what a useless thing to do. It doesn't make anything thinner, since you are limited by the width of the superdrive anyway. That's the thing that most convinces me that this is a hoax, which is too bad since there's some other good stuff there.

Don't get too much into it... the original text says ... , sowie 4 schräg !!! angeordnete Blechverkeidungen für die PCI-Steckplätze....

Schräg doesn't mean diagonal, it means inclined. The guy also didn't say anything specific about how that looks like, just that the metal covers of the PCI-slots are inclined. So my guess is, that the cards sit in perfect 90° on the board, but that maybe the board itself is not in an 90° angle to the case. That makes your point pointless ;) since it wouldn't have any effect like you described above.

groovebuster

daZ-M
Jun 19, 2003, 07:56 AM
http://www.macguardians.de/cgi-bin/macforum/YaBB.pl?board=news;action=display;num=1055939872

what do you think? this scribble is from the same dude, who post the detailed specs on mac-life.de about the new ppc 970 yesterday.

btw... i am not talking about the render image below the scribble. that´s apparently a fake.

greetingZ
daZ M

groovebuster
Jun 19, 2003, 08:05 AM
I guess you mean this one:

http://80.86.188.170/ppc970_skizze.jpg

Kal-EL
Jun 19, 2003, 09:24 AM
Along with the Power Mac 970's being released on Monday, I have it from a very reliable source that Apple is announcing plans to acquire Microsoft.:D

soggywulf
Jun 19, 2003, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by groovebuster
So my guess is, that the cards sit in perfect 90° on the board, but that maybe the board itself is not in an 90° angle to the case.

Yeah, that'd be fine. I don't see the point of inclining a motherboard (except style points, of course), but as long as they do it in a non-stupid fashion I have no probs with it. I just want my damn FX. :)

Sun Baked
Jun 19, 2003, 09:45 AM
fullpoint = ROFL

Very trustworthy site, yay let's trust a site doesn't even know the price of the current Macs let alone what machines are shipping now. :rolleyes:

gralem
Jun 19, 2003, 09:47 AM
Originally posted by toekook
What's with this Gralem guy? Why is he so agressive? Can't he join the US-army and go shoot some foreigners in some godforsaken oilrich country while his president covers him? No offence intented;-)

Not everything from the US is better, faster or bigger. It might come as a shock to you, but OUTSIDE of the US sometimes things happen too.

But anyway, on Monday the truth will be reveiled.

Don't forget to take your Retalin, Gralem if things turn out to be true.......

PLEASE STOP ATTACKING ME! It's not a US/non-US. It is an Apple Store, non Apple Store issue. No Apple Store in .de, no boxes in .de.

---gralem

dietsoda
Jun 19, 2003, 10:10 AM
Apple Stores are (almost?) exclusively limited to the US, so I think the point being made is that in europe where we don't have Apple Stores, it would make sense that Apple would have shipped to the leading Apple Affiliated chains.

Cetainally the fact that the invite only Berlin event is taking place suggests that Apple are looking for an international launch with whatever they're gonna do, so it would make sense to distribute ready for that event.

I just wish I'd hear one of these 'secret box' rumours from here in the UK! :)

thedrumone
Jun 19, 2003, 10:54 AM
this sounds so much more like the real deal, even if it is made up. that "photo" we've alll seen can't be real. i'm at least hoping this story is closer to what we'll see...can't wait.


-----------
G4 933 QS, 60&80 drives, 1.25RAM, Superdrive, Latest X

Kal-EL
Jun 19, 2003, 10:56 AM
Originally posted by gralem
PLEASE STOP ATTACKING ME! It's not a US/non-US. It is an Apple Store, non Apple Store issue. No Apple Store in .de, no boxes in .de.

---gralem

Why are you so convinced that any Monday product announcements will be available in Apple Stores and only Apple Stores? Forget about Germany for a minute, what about all of the American Pro Mac users that would make immediate purchases were they available, that live hundreds of miles away from the nearest Apple Store but within 10 minutes of a CompUSA? You think Apple's going to snub them too come Monday?:confused:

JBracy
Jun 19, 2003, 11:07 AM
Originally posted by Kal-EL
Why are you so convinced that any Monday product announcements will be available in Apple Stores and only Apple Stores? Forget about Germany for a minute, what about all of the American Pro Mac users that would make immediate purchases were they available, that live hundreds of miles away from the nearest Apple Store but within 10 minutes of a CompUSA? You think Apple's going to snub them too come Monday?:confused:

In a word "YES".

If they really want it ASAP they can either drive to an AppleStore or order online.

MetallicPenguin
Jun 19, 2003, 11:36 AM
I kind of doubt they would just forget about CompUSA and all the other places. I live about 1.5 hours away from an Apple store, I would think Apple would send the other places the computers too.

JBracy
Jun 19, 2003, 11:41 AM
Originally posted by MetallicPenguin
I kind of doubt they would just forget about CompUSA and all the other places. I live about 1.5 hours away from an Apple store, I would think Apple would send the other places the computers too.

Well you can think what you want, but my Local CompUSA is still selling the 800mHz 17" iMac as the latest model for $1799, so I don't put alot of faith in them having the latest stuff. The whole point of Apple opening their own line of stores was to have a place to showcase the latest and greatest. CompUSA has a very bad record of being knowledgeable and up to date.

Rower_CPU
Jun 19, 2003, 11:53 AM
Originally posted by JBracy
Well you can think what you want, but my Local CompUSA is still selling the 800mHz 17" iMac as the latest model for $1799, so I don't put alot of faith in them having the latest stuff. The whole point of Apple opening their own line of stores was to have a place to showcase the latest and greatest. CompUSA has a very bad record of being knowledgeable and up to date.

Yes, but now with the "Apple Store within a Store" (or ASS for short ;)), and Apple employees doing the selling, that should no longer be the case.

JBracy
Jun 19, 2003, 12:11 PM
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Yes, but now with the "Apple Store within a Store" (or ASS for short ;)), and Apple employees doing the selling, that should no longer be the case.

Well it was the case last week when I went in. Maybe the fact that there are 2 Apple Stores within 5 miles has something to do with it!

awinn233
Jun 19, 2003, 01:34 PM
How would this person be able to tell the difference between USB 1.1 and USB 2.0? Don't they look the same? It's fake.

Kal-EL
Jun 19, 2003, 01:55 PM
Originally posted by awinn233
How would this person be able to tell the difference between USB 1.1 and USB 2.0? Don't they look the same? It's fake.

Perhaps he read the specs off the side of the box. They're usually there, as well as a picture of the product.

Sublime
Jun 19, 2003, 03:34 PM
The inclined pci slots can only mean one thing.

The Powermac Wedge 970.

A simple machine. Can also be used as a fulcrum with the Lever option.

Lever not included.

cubist
Jun 19, 2003, 04:11 PM
Originally posted by groovebuster
Don't get too much into it... the original text says ... , sowie 4 schräg !!! angeordnete Blechverkeidungen für die PCI-Steckplätze....

Schräg doesn't mean diagonal, it means inclined. ...

Could it also mean "staggered" or "stepped"? Also what is it that is inclined, the "Blechverkeidungen", this is not the cards themselves but perhaps small sloped covers?

I dunno. It still sounds really weird.

SiliconAddict
Jun 19, 2003, 05:04 PM
Originally posted by dietsoda
i wasn't that upset with the photo that was doing the rounds, but i have to admit, this sounds better!

The rotating drives sound either like a flight of fancy, or another apple innovation we will all wonder how we did without.

Fingers' crossed!

EVERYTHING CROSSED!

Actually the Compaq Deskpro EN series did exactly this but in a really crappy manner where you had to flip the drives rather then the bay itself.. The Compaq logo detached and could be replaced with a provided horizontal logo. But then again the EN series was a crash prone nightmare. (Hmmm why am I getting a BIOS error for no video card detected when there is one in the AGP slot?)
Somehow I doubt the 970's will incorporate that portion of the Compaq design. :P ;)


*sighs* No word on PowerBooks yet.......Why do I have the feeling I'm going to be waiting til 2004 to get my first Mac since my 2e so long ago. :(

dsma
Jun 19, 2003, 09:55 PM
I would bet against this account of a new machine, but two things caught my attention.
1. is it possible Apple cant use G5 name for their new computers because toshiba has a laptop line with same name. http://dynabook.com/pc/catalog/dynabook/020612g5/index_j.htm
2. While a convertible desktop/tower is intresting...why? Desktops are dead. But... from apple history 101 the Mac IIci was Mr. Jobs baby (my favorite mac to date, I am old) and was a great destop that could be used vertically.
Someone please open the box already.

groovebuster
Jun 20, 2003, 12:19 AM
Originally posted by cubist
Could it also mean "staggered" or "stepped"? Also what is it that is inclined, the "Blechverkeidungen", this is not the cards themselves but perhaps small sloped covers?

I dunno. It still sounds really weird.

It could mean staggered or stepped. The author is so unspecific in his language that it could mean almost anything. That's why I can't see how anybody would intereprete too much into it.

The German of that guy is really bad and his inability to describe things properly goes along with his bad expression and hilarious orthography. His German is way worse than my English.

Actually I was wondering a little bit o such a brain-dead person can be a Mac user with a Dual G4. But you never know...

Maybe he did that to cover up who he is?

At least it is pure speculation if that "report" is real or not. Since we don't know how the real machines look like and if the will really come right on monday, we don't have evidence for it being right or wrong.

I just find it funny how people go crazy (some of them even agressive) and make all kinds of assumptions why it can't be.

I remember I did that when the MDDs came out and was a bit unfriendly to the informant. So I know where it can take you when you are too desperate for new machines... Luckily the MDDs were not worth the hype and it brought my feet back on the ground! ;)

groovebuster

tysonrinderknec
Jun 20, 2003, 02:09 PM
hmm, I wonder how the leaked apple.com specs stack up to this rumor....

noverflow
Jun 20, 2003, 05:53 PM
leaked mac from apple says 3 pci
this says 4 pci

apple: 3 usb 2.0
them: 1 2.0 2 1.1
them 1 fw800 1 fw400
apple: 1 fw800 2 fw200

proof it is fake

elmimmo
Jun 21, 2003, 07:20 AM
It is curious how, if that rumor becomes true, the name "PowerMac 970" leaves Motorola out for any near future (years) unless Moto somehow gets some sort of license from IBM to build those too. Remember that while Moto does not seem to be very interested in the Apple market now, it is too looking to sell its processor department, and hence you do not know what it might be doing in, say, 2 years. The "G3" term was more anonymous, and hence you have G3s from IBM and Moto.

BTW, did not we see some piece of news months ago that Moto had announce a "G5", with that very name, processor for embedded market. Maybe that is why Apple is not using that term, because it is owned by Motorola.

:rolleyes:

Kal-EL
Jun 21, 2003, 04:09 PM
G5 is not so much a name is it is a term. The "G" stands for generation. When the G3 came out, it was the 3rd generation of Mac chip. Hence G3 or Generation 3. G4 was the 4th generation chip, and G5, of course will be the 5th generation regardless of who the manufacturer is. It's not so much a brand name as it is a description. Also, as others have posted here, if the chip is the IBM 970, then each minor upgrade will have a separate build number to it like 970.1, 970.2, 971, and so on while being just upgrades on the same chip. Calling it a G5, eliminates the customer confusion as to the different chipe numberings.

elmimmo
Jun 21, 2003, 04:33 PM
You did not understand me. You are saying exactly the same thing that I did, but I added how it was weird that Apple would NOT be using G5 and stick a "PowerMacintosh 970" (if the rumor is confirmed), because that term lose the ambiguity of the G5 term, and hence, the open door to different processors or manufacturers.

And not a brand name? Yeah, whatever tell that to Apple when they had the big "G3" in the b/w g3 or the way the apple store tags current systems. Do you see anywhere "PowerMac with dual Motorola whatever"?

For Apple, I am certain, G3 and G4 are brands.

prewwii
Jun 21, 2003, 10:48 PM
Originally posted by elmimmo
It is curious how, if that rumor becomes true, the name "PowerMac 970" leaves Motorola out for any near future (years) ......snip..........
:rolleyes:

In the news for the last few weeks the story goes that Motorola has their chip making division up for sale. Seems another good reason to kiss Motorola good bye.

spiff
Jun 22, 2003, 04:14 AM
this is def. a fake:

how can there be 5 opticaldrive-slots, which can be put in 90 deg. turned? that mac would have to be REAL wide. not gonna happen.

elmimmo
Jun 22, 2003, 03:24 PM
What the name "PowerMac 970" implies is not simply "kissing Motorola good bye", but whoever else but IBM, including whoever is going to buy that Moto's division. Sticking to 1 manufacturer of processors has not been very positive to Apple in the near past.

dornball
Jun 23, 2003, 06:10 PM
well, we know that this rumor wasn't true now.

-dornball

groovebuster
Jun 23, 2003, 11:53 PM
As well as mayn others... :)

hvfsl
Jul 16, 2003, 08:03 AM
I hope this is true and they do release a G5 PM soon.

Rower_CPU
Jul 16, 2003, 11:46 AM
They did...about 3 weeks ago. :rolleyes: