More on Apple iPhone Issues

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Arstechnica's blog (http://arstechnica.com/journals/apple.ars/2007/04/19/source-iphone-running-into-os-issues-wont-meet-demand) provides some confirmation of earlier reports that Apple's iPhone is going through last-minute quality control and development issues.

An earlier report (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/17/iphone-seeing-some-delays/) claimed Apple had run into several issues with the iPhone's software as well as some concerns about Battery life.

Ars claims that according to their source that Apple has "50 OS engineers working around the clock in Taipei to make sure that this shipped on time." They also claim that the last minute issues remain "software Q/A and OS-related issues" rather than battery life concerns.

As a result, their source believes that only a "trickle" of iPhones will make there way into shipping by the end of June, with difficulties with keeping up with early demand.

[aricher]

Looks like we can expect frequent software updates for the first few months after the release. At least they're trying to stay firm on the shipping date.

[nagromme]

I have no doubt initial demand will be tight--that's been the case for less-unique products in the past.

As for "issues"--it's hard to imagine a complex software-hardware device NOT having "issues" still in progress 2.5 months before release. Evidence of anything more dire than that is lacking--just anonymous vague comments and speculation.

Software issues are the best kind at least :)

[roland.g]

Of course, this thing can't be buggy beyond an acceptable level when it ships with all the hype, especially if early adopters are to be your promoters. You don't want someone saying this thing has this problem and that.

[therif]

I think I'll be taking a 2nd generation iPhone :p Definitely :D

[aricher]

I think I'll be taking a 2nd generation iPhone :p Definitely :D

And that would be released when? Christmas? I'm thinking MacWorld in January.

[BlueRevolution]

Of course, this thing can't be buggy beyond an acceptable level when it ships with all the hype, especially if early adopters are to be your promoters. You don't want someone saying this thing has this problem and that.

Agreed. Can't forget the buzz about Nanos scratching that was around right after their release.

[iamcrazyed]

"50 OS engineers working around the clock in Taipei..."

And if they work long enough, they could possibly reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare, and, if we're lucky, Leopard by October.

[Chaszmyr]

I think I'll be taking a 2nd generation iPhone :p Definitely :D

I will too... Of course, I'll be taking a 1st generation iPhone first :p

I don't like to hear about delays causing supply issues, I was hoping that Apple would ramp up production a couple months in advance to meet demand.

[ejbenjamin]

There's a few things about this rumor that seem a bit off to me. For one, if the problems are software-related, then why have the engineers been shipped to Taipei?

And two, would software issues really cause production shortages? iPhones that have already been manufactured could simply be updated before they're boxed up and shipped out. That's not going to cause a delay on the scale the rumor implies.

Maybe I'm not familiar enough with the development processes involved, but this one just isn't fitting together.

[05elstonc]

The fantastic part about the device, and all new Apple devices is their ability to update themselves. The iPhone will not be used heavily without being synced to a computer. This means apple can push any software updates it needs too whenever they need to. Unlike most cell phones that have maybe 1 update their entire life cycle, the iPhone can be updated monthly if needed. Plus the majority of people will charge their iPhone at their computer at least 3 times a week, so people will not be going long stretches without software updates unable to update their device. Furthermore much of the batterlife is dependent on OS optimization which can be updated. As long as the hardware components are reliable and work well together, the iPhone will work the way apple intends because the experience will come down to the software. I cannot wait to line up at the Apple store the day of the release and play with the device. It is going to be crazy.

[johnee]

"50 OS engineers working around the clock in Taipei..."

And if they work long enough, they could possibly reproduce the entire works of Shakespeare, and, if we're lucky, Leopard by October.

"it was the best of times, it was the blurst of times? you stupid monkey! (monkey screeches) " .... ala the simpons

[iamcrazyed]

"it was the best of times, it was the blurst of times? you stupid monkey! (monkey screeches) " .... ala the simpons

Hahaha, you read my mind!!!

[acrafton]

There's a few things about this rumor that seem a bit off to me. For one, if the problems are software-related, then why have the engineers been shipped to Taipei?

I don't think the issue is that they "shipped engineers" to Taipei but that is where they are doing the IPhone OS engineering. The engineers there are most likely working at 50% of what an American would want, don't demand options, and will do pretty much what Apple tells them to do.

This approach can work well for maintenance or legacy work but rarely works well for new, cutting edge development due to the language differences, time differences, etc. . .don't know, but this may be adding to the delay and then Apple woke up and said 'oh shi*' and pulled a bunch of QA and other developers off of Leopard to get this thing back on track.

[johnee]

Hahaha, you read my mind!!!

I don't have anything intelligent to say about the iphone (some would say about anything) but when I saw that I HAD to post. I love the old Simpsons!

[MisterMe]

...

Maybe I'm not familiar enough with the development processes involved, but this one just isn't fitting together.I totally agree. If the problem is software, then there is nothing to prevent hardware production from going forward. The software can be loaded when it is ready. Also, a software problem should not cause a slowdown; it should cause a halt in production until shippable code is ready to be loaded. And no, it makes no sense to spend the money required to fly 50 engineers across the Pacific and keep them there for two months to fix a software problem. The more I think about it, the more holes I find in this story.

[Konradx]

i bought the first Video ipod the second it was announced and on available on the apple store. Should i take the same risk again with the iPhone? I dont think Apple would pull an EA or Ubisoft and ship a broken product, with patches out before its even released (I Hope).

[johnee]

I totally agree. If the problem is software, then there is nothing to prevent hardware production from going forward. The software can be loaded when it is ready. Also, a software problem should not cause a slowdown; it should cause a halt in production until shippable code is ready to be loaded. And no, it makes no sense to spend the money required to fly 50 engineers across the Pacific and keep them there for two months to fix a software problem. The more I think about it, the more holes I find in this story.

that software is loaded during production, either as a HD or ROM. If the software isn't ready, what are they going to do with 1 million phones, just let them take up space while the software gets worked out? Then they have to program 1 million phones?

no, the software must be done before production can begin.

[CoreWeb]

There's a few things about this rumor that seem a bit off to me. For one, if the problems are software-related, then why have the engineers been shipped to Taipei?

That is an excellent point - all that developers should need is ONE finished iPhone (or a few) to test on, and then they can work at Cupertino, or even Hawaii, to get the OS complete. With the internet, anything is possible.

And two, would software issues really cause production shortages? iPhones that have already been manufactured could simply be updated before they're boxed up and shipped out. That's not going to cause a delay on the scale the rumor implies.

I doubt it would be that easy to update hundreds of thousands or millions of iPhones. How would one go about doing that? Take each one to a computer and update the software? Not likely.

In other words, I'm not sure why developers would have been sent to Taipei, but it makes sense that software issues could delay the iPhone.

[twoodcc]

well i guess i probably won't get it in June......hopefully July though

[ajonessn]

I would venture out and say that Apple knows what they're doing. Even if there are software issues, you're looking at some of the brightest minds in technology (except those guys working at Google) and surely they'll be able to solve whatever issues are prevalent.

Would anyone else bet that Apple wouldn't have announced the device if they hadn't planned for something like this?

[roland.g]

My birthday is in July. However, neither my wife or any of my family get on MR. So I think the hint will go unnoticed. Not to mention my wife is not going to get me a $600 phone.

[iMikeT]

I guess Apple wasn't lying about barrowing their Leopard engineers for the iPhone.

[slb]

More rumors. I've decided never to believe any Apple rumors again.

[yellow]

I love the quote:

All I can say in response to that is that I hope some of you are getting ready to perform sexual favors for your favorite Apple and/or Cingular retail store personnel, come June/July.

+1

Classic!

[TimmyD]

Grammatical error:

"...iPhones will make there way into shipping..."
should be
"...iPhones will make their way into shipping..."

[peestandingup]

WOW, there has been a lot of last minute iPhone issues. The Leopard delay makes much more sense now.

Guess thats why a few weeks ago, Apple claimed that Leopard was still on time for a spring release. Then, they start having all these last minute iPhone OS issues, they pull almost everyone off Leopard to make sure iPhone is released on time, Leopard gets delayed. Makes sense now, so I dont think they lied to us originally about Leopard being on time for spring.

[iamcrazyed]

My birthday is in July. However, neither my wife or any of my family get on MR. So I think the hint will go unnoticed. Not to mention my wife is not going to get me a $600 phone.

I think you're forgetting about the power of suggestion: "accidentally" set her browser homepage to the iPhone section of apple.com, then when you're out with your married friends, make sure she overhears how great of a deal these phones are. "The functionality alone is worth $600, not to mention how cool they are!" Then, let your current cell phone take an "accidental" tumble down the stairs, or better yet, a nice ride in your washer/dryer. Edit: It's even better if you put your phone in a pants pocket that she likely won't check... then you have the guilt working with you!

If that doesn't work, just use your birthday money you get from your parents to buy one. Yeah, hopefully your parents still give you birthday money in your card.

[FoxyKaye]

I confess I'm completely lukewarm on the whole iPhone - I can't afford one, and wouldn't want one if I could. Plus, this project seems to have completely taken over at Apple:

* No new iPod revisions - why? The iPhone.
* No Leopard till October - why? The iPhone.
* And now, possibly no iPhone in June - why? The iPhone.

This, plus the fact that I've had really horrendous support interactions with Apple lately has me wishing for the "good old days" of 2% market share. I was actually really looking forward to buying the Leopard upgrade for my iMac G5 after the first 10.5.x shipping revision (to give time to work out the 10.5 release bugs), which probably now won't happen until the end of the year or beginning of next.

Blah.

[noriyori]

i bought the first Video ipod the second it was announced and on available on the apple store. Should i take the same risk again with the iPhone? I dont think Apple would pull an EA or Ubisoft and ship a broken product, with patches out before its even released (I Hope).

I have had a mentality over the years of "never buy the first release" of any product, whether it be apple or GE or anyone else.(having owned a powerbook 5300, powerbook 'lombard' and G4 1.67gHz powerbook, numerous iPods and desktops dating back to the II GS). I, being an apple "fanboy", hope apple has their ducks in a row on this one. which I believe is why we've seen so many dates pushed back. They can't, at this point, release a product that is not up to top notch standards. They're stuck. which is most of my reasoning why, when my sony ericsson decided to stop turning on last month, to hold out for the iPhone. Thank goodness I'm with cingular and have a phone upgrade discount available.

Granted there will be many updates in the first few months. I think apple really knows what they're sitting on and will not ship a product, in such a market, that can't compete. In such a price bracket they have to be able to hold up in functionality... word docs, pdf's, pushmail, calendar, etc...

I think the OS 10.5 setback is totally unrelated to the iphone. I think as they are expanding so quickly they are seeing the criticism of they're decline in quality and need to rethink how they are releasing products. They need to live up to they're reputation and an average 2 hour wait on hold for tech support is not helping them.

They've had a wild ride with the ipod, but hopefully now seeing, there are a lot bigger fish to fry in the apple world.

Any setbacks in delivery I would hope would make up for in functionality.
We'll see. Apple has created a chance at making a device that can really be revolutionary. Let's just see if the programmers and politicians can deliver.



My optimistic view on things.

[rxse7en]

"Moron iPhone Problems"

:D

[yellow]

Guess thats why a few weeks ago, Apple claimed that Leopard was still on time for a spring release. Then, they start having all these last minute iPhone OS issues, they pull almost everyone off Leopard to make sure iPhone is released on time, Leopard gets delayed.

I would have thought these issues were apparent for quite a while.

My guess is someone promised someone that the QA issues would be easily ironed out. And they weren't. And now the current predicament. I'm also guessing someone lost a job.

[MacNut]

Part of me wants the iPhone to be a bust so Apple gets its ego out of the sky and back down to earth.

[fblack]

well i guess i probably won't get it in June......hopefully July though

I thought I read something previously that according to the agreement with cingular/at&t if apple doesn't ship on time there are some penalties apple would incur. Anyone familiar with that?

[yellow]

Part of me wants the iPhone to be a bust so Apple gets its ego out of the sky and back down to earth.

I don't care for that part of you. Put it back in your pants please.

[MacNut]

I don't care for that part of you. Put it back in your pants please.The doctor said it would be fine in a week.:p

My point is that Apple is so convinced about the iPhone that I hope it doesn't get its hopes up if this thing doesn't pull in the big numbers.

[yellow]

The doctor said it would be fine in a week.:p

LOL. Penicillin! The cure all!

[Wingsy]

It seems everywhere I go I see people saying that Apple had pulled engineers off Leopard to fix last minute issues with the iPhone. Apple never said that. They never said WHEN they transferred resources to the iPhone. It could have been on day #1 for all we know. And as time went by they realized that they weren't going to make the June deadline. So, when they announced it, it doesn't mean that they suddenly got in a bind. It means we suddenly were let in on the problem. It was probably coming for months.

If I were Apple and saw that I wasn't going to meet my deadline, I'd probably add a month or 2 MORE to what I expected to be its release date, to give my engineers even more time to polish things off. If you're gonna be late by 2 months, why not by 4 and give yourself more time for the refinements and testing.

No need to panic about this or the imagined iPhone "issues".

[maxdet]

First Leopard and now probably the iPhone aswell. It's a pity Apple is delaying such products. When we hear of a new Apple product at any one of the conferences we like to hear the "and we're shipping today" which hasn't been said recently. The whole surprise effect and secrecy is ruined. But more importantly I think Apple is loosing much of its credibility.

Apple is my religion and its products my God: loosing faith in God...

[zap2]

^^^ They haven't delayed the iPhone...in fact they work extra hard to get it here on time. Take every rumor as fact, your done for!




Sure hope I can get one on launch day!

[macwatcher]

No biggie! Remember the first iPod? Heavy, little battery life, really expensive... It probably needed updates and patches too but they weren't as popular back then.

You gotta start somewhere and this is it! Still getting one in September when my Verizon contract is up.

[Cult Follower]

I really really want one of these but I don't want to get one with issues.:(

[ortuno2k]

Grammatical error:

"...iPhones will make there way into shipping..."
should be
"...iPhones will make their way into shipping..."

Yes! I noticed this too on the article.
And I've seen these types of mistakes made on books...BOOKS!
Hopefully the admin will correct it.

[thejadedmonkey]

I think the OS 10.5 setback is totally unrelated to the iphone. I think as they are expanding so quickly they are seeing the criticism of they're decline in quality and need to rethink how they are releasing products. They need to live up to they're reputation and an average 2 hour wait on hold for tech support is not helping them.

My average hold time has been less then 10 minutes.

No biggie! Remember the first iPod? Heavy, little battery life, really expensive... It probably needed updates and patches too but they weren't as popular back then.

You gotta start somewhere and this is it! Still getting one in September when my Verizon contract is up.
I think the original iPod is on firmware version 1.3, which is pretty much perfect.. they had all the time in the world to work on it because it was never pre-announced, but even the original firmware works amazingly well.

[burntoutjoy]

I love the quote:
+1
Classic!
Thank you for adding your boundless insight to this thread.

[elppa]

I don't agree that Apple needs to ship a month before.

They will probably charter every plane they can get their hands on to fly from Taipei to the states. It may be expensive, but the negative pr/loss of good will from having only a tiny amount of units at launch would potentially cost more.

[quigleybc]

Anyone who buys a first gen iPhone is really asking for it sounds like..

I won't be buying mine until I'm satisfied that it's not going to have a ton of issues, thinking around Halloween

[papadopolis1024]

I cant see apple ********** up there first cell phone..... apple would want it perfect!

[Music-Man]

I cant see apple ********** up there first cell phone..... apple would want it perfect!

Steve Jobs wants it perfect, which means it HAS to be perfect. I've never seen Steve so personally excited about a product before. This is HIS project, built out of his desire for the perfect next gen phone. I'm sure he has his bags packed ready to jump on a plane and make sure each and every iPhone has his seal of approval.

Have faith my friends.

[MV103]

I don't think the issue is that they "shipped engineers" to Taipei but that is where they are doing the IPhone OS engineering. The engineers there are most likely working at 50% of what an American would want, don't demand options, and will do pretty much what Apple tells them to do.

Yeah... Apple doesn't do design outside of Cupertino. Ever notice the products tend to almost always say "Designed by Apple in CUPERTINO, or CALIFORNIA." In cases where its done in other places, its merey because companies were acquired in those locations and as part of the acquisition, they didn't make the employee's move to Cupertino. If anything cutting edge is going on, rest assured its happening in Cupertino.

I *highly* doubt the OS Engineers (and thus iPhone engineers) are sweat shop programmers in Taipei, give me a break.

This approach can work well for maintenance or legacy work but rarely works well for new, cutting edge development due to the language differences, time differences, etc. . .don't know, but this may be adding to the delay and then Apple woke up and said 'oh shi*' and pulled a bunch of QA and other developers off of Leopard to get this thing back on track.

Exactly, this is cutting edge stuff, pushing the envelope, its grad students applying theory to make fact, its incredibly knowledgeable old school OS coders making magic happen. It's incredibly insulting for you to think that Apple hires monkeys to type out code, especially for a product like the iPhone. Give. Me. A. Break. You were kidding right?

[jesteraver]

better late then never, eh

[KIRA]

hopefully i can get it this june, i need to start using my savings for this damn phone!

[dAlen]

keep up with early demand should not be a problem.

Everyone has early desire...but not the funds for demand.

With the phone going for $600 and not offered in Europe (u.k. is not, at least represenative of europe - nor is it released there even in June)...so that will help some of the demand issues.

With what they posted here about contracts at about $75 per month plus iphone...thats crazy, crazy. $75 for a phone. You have to excuse me, I have not owned a phone for years. (landline, mobile...I use skype, and have my own skype number. Unlike most people, Im not addicted to having to talk to someone all the time. If they need to reach me, they will get me...dont need to be tethered to a phone.) ;)

Having said that, who has the money that apple needs to concern themself with the demand...ah, the debted ones.

Anyway...lower price apple, and phone carriers...I can pay $75 per month for gas...it warms my a**. :) But a phone, come on.

Peace

[spotlight07]

For one, if the problems are software-related, then why have the engineers been shipped to Taipei?

Wonder if it'll still be "Designed by Apple in California":D

[Hunabku]

50 Mac OS engineers burst into a Taipei factory and the foreman of the factory says, “Wow, I appreciate that so many of you showed, but you won’t be able to fix the iPhone in time, because the problem makes no sense at all – it won’t accept Chinese songs.”

The lead Mac OS engineer exclaims, “It what?! I can’t understand how it would know the difference between Chinese songs and other songs . . . well if we can’t fix it by June then will ship it as is – since not that many people in the US listen to Chinese songs anyway.” The foreman responds “OK, but we have another problem . . . eh . . . the iPhone is up my butt and it won’t come out.”

The lead engineer laughs “Come on, now I know your joking.” “No its true”, says the foreman “I pack the iPhone up there when we are not working on it, you know Steve’s secrecy policies. The iPhone must have known you were coming, that you would force it to accept Chinese music, and that’s why it won’t come out.”

After a long ponderous pause, the lead engineer concludes, “This all makes sense, and I know how we can get it out.” The 50 engineers form a circle around the foreman and start singing Kumbaya. After several days and nights of non-stop singing the iPhone pokes its head out and says – “I give up! I give up! I’ll accept Chinese songs, just stop singing Kumbaya! And why don’t you programmers go back to working on the Macintosh operating system, I hear its in even deeper ****** than I was.”

[MrCrowbar]

[...]
The 50 engineers form a circle around the foreman and start singing Kumbaya. After several days and nights of non-stop singing the iPhone pokes its head out [..]


1. What are you smoking?
2. Can I have some?
3. LOL

:eek: :p :o

[Morky]

Trickles occur from manufacturing/yield problems. An OS problem would lead to no phones being released, not a trickle. Once the OS is ready, they should be able to roll it out to the hardware pretty quickly.

[shawnce]

* No new iPod revisions - why? The iPhone.
What do you think the next gen iPod may be based on? Humm just possibly the same OS X that is going into the iPhone.

Apple appears to be setting itself up to be able to reuse and share more OS technology then they have in the past across their products... things might be a little gated on the OS X aspect in the short term (it all centers around technology related to Leopard) ...but I assure Apple has generally separate teams working on all of the other product lines (iPod, Macs, various software products, etc.). They aren't all focus on a given product at a given time like some many folks continue to state.

[morespce54]

50 Mac OS engineers burst into a Taipei factory and the foreman of the factory says, “Wow, I appreciate that so many of you showed, but you won’t be able to fix the iPhone in time, because the problem makes no sense at all – it won’t accept Chinese songs.”

The lead Mac OS engineer exclaims, “It what?! I can’t understand how it would know the difference between Chinese songs and other songs . . . well if we can’t fix it by June then will ship it as is – since not that many people in the US listen to Chinese songs anyway.” The foreman responds “OK, but we have another problem . . . eh . . . the iPhone is up my butt and it won’t come out.”

The lead engineer laughs “Come on, now I know your joking.” “No its true”, says the foreman “I pack the iPhone up there when we are not working on it, you know Steve’s secrecy policies. The iPhone must have known you were coming, that you would force it to accept Chinese music, and that’s why it won’t come out.”

After a long ponderous pause, the lead engineer concludes, “This all makes sense, and I know how we can get it out.” The 50 engineers form a circle around the foreman and start singing Kumbaya. After several days and nights of non-stop singing the iPhone pokes its head out and says – “I give up! I give up! I’ll accept Chinese songs, just stop singing Kumbaya!...”

LOL
Now, that's funny! ;)

[yellow]

Thank you for adding your boundless insight to this thread.

You're welcome. I see you're following in my footsteps?

[acrafton]

Yeah... Apple doesn't do design outside of Cupertino. Ever notice the products tend to almost always say "Designed by Apple in CUPERTINO, or CALIFORNIA." In cases where its done in other places, its merey because companies were acquired in those locations and as part of the acquisition, they didn't make the employee's move to Cupertino. If anything cutting edge is going on, rest assured its happening in Cupertino.

I *highly* doubt the OS Engineers (and thus iPhone engineers) are sweat shop programmers in Taipei, give me a break.



Exactly, this is cutting edge stuff, pushing the envelope, its grad students applying theory to make fact, its incredibly knowledgeable old school OS coders making magic happen. It's incredibly insulting for you to think that Apple hires monkeys to type out code, especially for a product like the iPhone. Give. Me. A. Break. You were kidding right?

I never said they hired sweat shop programmers - you did. I pointed out that they are obviously doing programming in Taipei to save money as there is nothing a Tapei engineer has that a US one doesn't that would give them an advantage - other than lower pay package. You explain to me why the work is being done in Tapei and not in Cupertino?

I also never said Apple hires monkeys - you did. I work in the industry and amazed that large sophisticated clients ROUTINELY send mission critical new work to India (or wherever) to save a few dollars. The allure of 'global sourcing' is too much for them to resist. Not that the work can't get done overseas and get done well but it is much easier to walk down the hall and work with engineers than to rouse them in India or wherever and get something done.

[JJayguy23]

And that would be released when? Christmas? I'm thinking MacWorld in January.

You know, it would need to be updated within 3-6 months after initial release, just like Motorola and Nokia do with their cell phones, in order to stay up to speed.

[kcroy]

You know, it would need to be updated within 3-6 months after initial release, just like Motorola and Nokia do with their cell phones, in order to stay up to speed.

I beleive the iPhone will be here in June. The launch is going to be huge. Apple is smart. They are going to show off the Beta of Leopard and the numerous ways the iPhone interacts with Leopard and Apple TV. Demand for all three will be huge.

I think the iPhone is going to have TWO cameras. The one we all know about in the back, but a SECOND secret camera facing the user behind the actual interface screen. We sawa glimpse of this in an earlier patent filing. Calling home will have an all new meaning with iChat video conference to your computer OR Apple TV. This is revoluntionary!!!!! Call home on your iPhone, choose iChat video, talk with everyone in the living room. (Yeah, I know...the Apple TV will need an iSight. No problem....they're much smaller now.)

Leopard is the key to everything. The iPhone is a marketing ploy for Leopard OS. Just like how Mac users can do more with an iPod than PCs can now....the iPhone will bring an entirely new meaning to this. At the very least...a PC user will want an Apple TV if not a full Switch.

This is a rumors site. Well, there it is. Send me an email in June.
:rolleyes: