iTunes, Indies and Kids

[MacRumors]

Rolling Stone (http://www.rollingstone.com/news/newsarticle.asp?nid=18233) has a brief article documenting Apple's June 5th meeting (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030606081257.shtml) with independent record labels.

The article claims that Apple could potentially increase their number of songs on the iTunes Music Service to 400,000 songs (from 200,000) with the addition of the indie labels.

Of interest, it appears Apple may be trying to bring the iTunes Music Store into closer reach to kids without credit cards in the form of "stored-value cash cards" that teens could use at the iTunes Music Store to buy music.

Overall reception to the iTunes Music Store by music executives is reported to be positive.

[synthetickittie]

two questions.. when are we going to find out what exact labels and when are the songs going to be put on?

[noverflow]

Originally posted by synthetickittie
two questions.. when are we going to find out what exact labels and when are the songs going to be put on?

Exactly what i want to know.

[Digipimp]

Yeah this is something I mentioned when the store came out at the very begining. Apple should have cards that are essentially like gift cards that they sell in their stores and other stores that carry apple products such as CompUSA and if BestBuy starts to carry again. Then people can buy something like a $20 or $50 gift card and give it as a gift or something so that they can use it to buy music online. This is great for people without credit cards as well so they can go into the store and pay cash. Great all around and I hope they do it.

[mymemory]

That stuff for kids is something that no other provider can bring to not credit card users.

That is so good.

[Nermal]

So now I just need to import some of these cards, and use the service over here :)

[FredAkbar]

Perhaps Apple will announce this deal, and the no-credit-card feature, at MWNY. Or is this going to happen a lot sooner than that?

--Fred

[hugemullens]

The no credit card is a great idea, , so kids could get these instead of annoying mom and dad requesting to use the credit card for a 99 cent per purchase. As for the indie lables, more the better, i hope they get them up soon, the store is great but still lack the variety most people desire.

[ozubahn]

Originally posted by hugemullens
The no credit card is a great idea, , so kids could get these instead of annoying mom and dad requesting to use the credit card for a 99 cent per purchase.

And more important, from Apple's perspective, is that a prepaid card avoids the micropayments problem. They get a lot more profit out of one $50 card than they do from fifty $1 song purchases.

[arvidvdb]

Any news on ITMS getting available outside the US? It sure sounds better and better.
The card-system would sound as a good temp. solution for europe, unfortunately, we don't have apple-stores here

I'd hate it if microsoft 'd beat them to it in europe.:(

[Nermal]

Originally posted by arvidvdb
Any news on ITMS getting available outside the US? It sure sounds better and better.
The card-system would sound as a good temp. solution for europe, unfortunately, we don't have apple-stores here

I'd hate it if microsoft 'd beat them to it in europe.:(

Yeah, international users can still use the service if they've got a US credit card. So the card system would avoid this problem - if you can get hold of a card.

[irmongoose]

Well, exactly what I needed. I really don't want to be bugging my dad every time I want to buy a song... because he certainly hates the idea of giving out his credit card number online...

All I need now is for the service to become available outside the US!



irmongoose

[dguisinger]

Originally posted by ozubahn
And more important, from Apple's perspective, is that a prepaid card avoids the micropayments problem. They get a lot more profit out of one $50 card than they do from fifty $1 song purchases.

True, however with merchant accounts there is usually a minimum fee per transaction, for example $0.05 or $0.10.

Apple gets around this as much as possible, by grouping purchases made over a 1-2 day period.

They first reserve the funds and make sure they are available, but they do not finish the transaction until after they see if an additional order or two come through, thus saving them money.

Plus, a company of Apple's size probably has very good discount rates with their merchant provider.

[benjaminpg]

Obviously these cards could be used as gift cards, but it would also be nice to be able to give electronic gift cards. You would enter the email address of the person you wanted to give it to and they would get sent a message with a number in it. This number could then be entered into their account to add credit to buy stuff.

The electronic gift cards should be able to be purchased with these cash cards or with a traditional credit card.

It would also be cool to be able to buy specific songs/albums as gifts. They would have to be authorized for the recipient's account instead of yours.

This is all sounding very cool, especially about getting more indie music.

P.S. It's nice to hear something not centered around 970s and WWDC.

[PowerBook User]

Originally posted by Digipimp
Yeah this is something I mentioned when the store came out at the very begining. Apple should have cards that are essentially like gift cards that they sell in their stores and other stores that carry apple products such as CompUSA and if BestBuy starts to carry again. Then people can buy something like a $20 or $50 gift card and give it as a gift or something so that they can use it to buy music online. This is great for people without credit cards as well so they can go into the store and pay cash. Great all around and I hope they do it.
That is certainly a good idea. Then all Apple would need is Windows users and international support. I also think getting a lot of indie songs will get many more people visiting iTMS.

[ozubahn]

Originally posted by dguisinger
True, however with merchant accounts there is usually a minimum fee per transaction, for example $0.05 or $0.10.

Apple gets around this as much as possible, by grouping purchases made over a 1-2 day period.


That is the micropayments problem I'm referring to. Apple pays 65 cents per song to the labels, and they would rather not pay an additional several cents to the credit card company. Aggregating purchases helps, but there are a lot of people who might by a song or two per week. This is especially true of the kids, who often don't have that much money and are reluctant to spend large amounts of it within any two-day period.

And then, of course, there is the fact that a ridiculous percentage of gift certificates and cards are never actually redeemed. Good for Apple. :)

[C14ru5]

I have an idea for Steve: What about Apple buying Apple Records, thereby ending all possible name disputes AND putting all those easy-selling Beatles songs out for sale?

Well, perhaps it isn't so realistic, but it's a good idea, right?

[solvs]

I never considered the kids' aspect. I just assumed people who would use the service would have credit cards. If you didn't have credit/debit cards, I figured you'd be a P2P'er. But this is a great idea - for gifts, too. And people who don't want to use their CC, for 1 or 2 songs here and there especially.

[C14ru5]

Yes, I agree.

In Norway, the average Joe is completely paranoid when it comes to credit card payment on the net. Such an approach from Apple would give a more "easy-going" attitude, which again results in higher sales.

[macgroove]

Can someone please explain to me what "indie" labels are.....

I am not too familiar with tech-talk on the music industry... Hope someone can clarify

[dstorey]

Originally posted by C14ru5
I have an idea for Steve: What about Apple buying Apple Records, thereby ending all possible name disputes AND putting all those easy-selling Beatles songs out for sale?

Well, perhaps it isn't so realistic, but it's a good idea, right?

It would be cool if apple bought apple records...ending the name dispute et all and allowing them to even sign little known acts and release them via itms as i mentioned in another thread a while ago...however it wouldn't help with the beatles...they are released on apple records but wako jacko controls the rights to the songs and i wouldnt like it if apple bought him ;)

[Digipimp]

Originally posted by macgroove
Can someone please explain to me what "indie" labels are.....

I am not too familiar with tech-talk on the music industry... Hope someone can clarify

It's just short for independant record labels, in other words every other record label except the major 5.

[C14ru5]

The way I see it, "indie" is equivalent to "underground". Indie labels are small labels on small budgets signing small artists, thus they must emphasize subliminal value instead of commercial value.

...but of course that makes no sense. Indie labels are just as interested in making money as the rest of the business :p

[Stella]

Apple will do this and that blah blah blah, all very nice but ... Apple must focus on bringing ITS to the rest of the world.

But it is good that Apple is trying to make it more appealing and thus getting more ahead of the competition.

[bennetsaysargh]

i have been suggesting the apple gift card since the iTMS first came out! i told it to the manager of one of the stores, and he said that is a great idea and i should get it heard.:)
this would help get the international people. even though there are no apple stores outside the US and some people in the US without an apple store by them, they could sell it at most apple re-sellers.

problem solved. now to get windows and indies:rolleyes:

[Squire]

Originally posted by Nermal
Yeah, international users can still use the service if they've got a US credit card. So the card system would avoid this problem - if you can get hold of a card.

I'm not sure that's true. As soon as I log on to the ITMS, I get a message saying that it's not available here. Do you have to sign up with one-click again on a US card? (Not sure, but I THINK I can send photo albums to a Canadian address. I got 3/4 of the way through the process without a hitch.)

Squire

P.S. By the way, good petition.

[MacFan25]

I think the no credit card idea is great. :) Not having a credit card is the reason I haven't bought anything from iTMS.

I wonder when this will be announced. :confused:

[tricky]

I am on the mailing list for Bloodshot Records and received an email from them saying that "by the end of the summer (hopefully) their entire catalog would be in the iTunes Music Store"

They are a really good label if you like the alt.country scene or whatever you want to call it.

check them out at:

www.bloodshotrecords.com

[MetallicPenguin]

Originally posted by bennetsaysargh
i have been suggesting the apple gift card since the iTMS first came out! i told it to the manager of one of the stores, and he said that is a great idea and i should get it heard.:)
this would help get the international people. even though there are no apple stores outside the US and some people in the US without an apple store by them, they could sell it at most apple re-sellers.

problem solved. now to get windows and indies:rolleyes:

I think this gift card idea would be very useful, if not make it look that way at least. I'm not really sure what group Metallica is under but they have to get them, I have a feeling it would be hard with Lars going psycho and such.


PS: I actually did suggest Safari to the people at Apple, through the feedback section I started talking about how much I liked the MSN Explorer and that Apple should make some sort of browser; that was like 1.5-2.5 months before they announced it.

[Sabenth]

Like others have said get the services round the world introduce pay as you go cards just like mobile phones ensure that each country has a unique number so you dont get lost in all the countrys. but have the ITMS grouped up into one huge database as such and everyone can get what they want when they want credit cards are ok if you have one but there of no use to people like me who dont own such bits of plastic ...


I do own a bank card though dose that count for anything and my banks owned by an american bank which is tied to an english bank thats tied to an australian bank .... see iam well conected already..


Sabenth

[JohnHummel]

Originally posted by Digipimp
Yeah this is something I mentioned when the store came out at the very begining. Apple should have cards that are essentially like gift cards that they sell in their stores and other stores that carry apple products such as CompUSA and if BestBuy starts to carry again. Then people can buy something like a $20 or $50 gift card and give it as a gift or something so that they can use it to buy music online. This is great for people without credit cards as well so they can go into the store and pay cash. Great all around and I hope they do it.

I would add two things to this:

1. The cards must be in the Apple section - this way, you actually have to go back and see the pretty machines back there. (If the store clerks are smart, they'll put some games on those machines so the "kids" (or the parents buying stuff for them) can check it out.

2. Or, barring that, just put them in the Apple stores only, or sell them as gift certificates online. I can see myself getting a $20 Apple iTunes Store Certificate to my brother-in-law (he used to be a roadie).

But this would be a great way of spreading the service, selling more music - and most people always have an addition $0.35 - $0.75 they either don't use, or have to spend an extra dollar of "real money" anyway, so Apple can make more money.

[Stella]

It is true. You need a US registered credit card otherwise ITMS tells you were to go!

Whats the betting that these rumoured ITMS are only available in the states (thus once again ignoring the majority of the world)?

Apple should try to sell them in record stores and spread the appeal of the ITMS rather than just selling them in Apple stores, which (a) limits visibility of them being known by consumers, and (b) limits availability to just the US. (This of course, once Apple gets ITMS rolled out to the majority of the world's population)



Originally posted by Squire
I'm not sure that's true. As soon as I log on to the ITMS, I get a message saying that it's not available here. Do you have to sign up with one-click again on a US card? (Not sure, but I THINK I can send photo albums to a Canadian address. I got 3/4 of the way through the process without a hitch.)

Squire

P.S. By the way, good petition.

[Sonofhaig]

Originally posted by Digipimp
Yeah this is something I mentioned when the store came out at the very begining. Apple should have cards that are essentially like gift cards that they sell in their stores and other stores that carry apple products such as CompUSA and if BestBuy starts to carry again. Then people can buy something like a $20 or $50 gift card and give it as a gift or something so that they can use it to buy music online. This is great for people without credit cards as well so they can go into the store and pay cash. Great all around and I hope they do it.

Couldn't Apple work something out with "Tower Records" to sell cards like this in their stores as well. I realize that in a record store one would usually purchase a "physical" CD, but why not give that option to the consumer?
I may be way off on this, so please educate me if I'm wrong.

Otherwise, this "gift card" is a fantastic idea, I agree!

[Windowlicker]

Have you thought about this: if those "gift cards" or whatever they would be called were available, kids could buy (relatively cheap) music and that way they would learn no to use p2p things.. and the record companies would be happy.

of course it's not so simple, but I think it might change attitudes a bit..

[MasterX (OSiX)]

1) i understand that its VERY IMPORTANT for Apple to go international with the iTMS, but consider Apple's point of view. Ok so for you outer states guys "most of the world" is you, right? Well sure, but for Apple 2 countries (US/Canada) is about half their market. And most of the music on the iTMS is American-based so perhaps that also impacts sales. And consider that for the iTMS to work out of the states/canada they have to set it up for dozens of countries, thats a lot of work.

2) If the iTMS GIft Cards are only sold in Apple stores i can definately see a LOT of them going up on eBay for over seas customers :-D

[Nawlins]

I think a lot of people, even minors, can get debit cards (spend it anywhere the card provider is offered, but it deducts funds directly from your checking account) from their local bank or a major credit card company. I plan on getting a debit card before college, and will use it on the iTMS.

Alex

[bennetsaysargh]

Originally posted by Nawlins
I think a lot of people, even minors, can get debit cards (spend it anywhere the card provider is offered, but it deducts funds directly from your checking account) from their local bank or a major credit card company. I plan on getting a debit card before college, and will use it on the iTMS.

Alex

but then you need a checking account.
i want to be able to use Apple Store Gift Cards.

[noverflow]

Originally posted by C14ru5
The way I see it, "indie" is equivalent to "underground". Indie labels are small labels on small budgets signing small artists, thus they must emphasize subliminal value instead of commercial value.

...but of course that makes no sense. Indie labels are just as interested in making money as the rest of the business :p


Tell that to dischord (minor threat, fugazi etc). They dont even sign their bands. They are fully non profit. Back in the 90s when they where making a ton of money, they took the extra cash and got all the bands health insurance.

Some people are actually about the art, and dont care about the money.

[sethwerkheiser]

I use my PayPal debit card for my iTunes purchases and get back 1% on each purchase. Thus my .99 cent downloads really only cost .98! WOW!

haha.. a big penny.:p

[dynamicd]

Originally posted by C14ru5
The way I see it, "indie" is equivalent to "underground". Indie labels are small labels on small budgets signing small artists, thus they must emphasize subliminal value instead of commercial value.

...but of course that makes no sense. Indie labels are just as interested in making money as the rest of the business :p

There are plenty of indie bands, groups, or artists that are widely known. For instance, dashboard confessional is considered indie but is in no way considered underground since so many people know about him. Indie money usually stems from touring and t-shirt sales since their records aren't as easily accesible.

[bennetsaysargh]

Originally posted by sethwerkheiser
I use my PayPal debit card for my iTunes purchases and get back 1% on each purchase. Thus my .99 cent downloads really only cost .98! WOW!

haha.. a big penny.:p

or buy 99 get 1 free!
lol:p

[schalliol]

Another benefit of the stored value gift-type cards would be that people would give them as gifts and perhaps people won't figure out how to use them and Apple keeps the bucks.

You could sell the certificates online, at the Apple stores and other places. If you wanted to get fancy you could give ones that only allow "clean" lyrics, so parents could let the kid go wild in the store.

One other thought would be for Apple to build CD vending machines based on iTMS. You could sign up for an account on the kiosk and buy songs that would be available on any of your "authorized computers" via download and get a CD copy right there for only an extra $0.99 or $0.49. That way when you're out at the airport and want to listen to something on your flight, you just sign in, use your card or your iTMS stored information on apple.com. Also, it would be a great place to sell the stored-value cards.

[Abstract]

Originally posted by Stella
Apple will do this and that blah blah blah, all very nice but ... Apple must focus on bringing ITS to the rest of the world.

But it is good that Apple is trying to make it more appealing and thus getting more ahead of the competition.

Thats true. Get iTMS music store out to everybody first, then worry about smaller details later. I'd love to buy music online, but I guess I'm stuck with P2P for now.

[mgescuro]

Tower Records is practically going out of business. Best for Apple to stay away from Tower Records all together.

Best to work with larger distributors liek Target or Wal-Mart where people are more likely to buy CD's. ALso, Apple's got their retail store infrastructure. Might as well leverage that.



Originally posted by Sonofhaig
Couldn't Apple work something out with "Tower Records" to sell cards like this in their stores as well. I realize that in a record store one would usually purchase a "physical" CD, but why not give that option to the consumer?
I may be way off on this, so please educate me if I'm wrong.

Otherwise, this "gift card" is a fantastic idea, I agree! :cool:

[Java]

Originally posted by mgescuro
Tower Records is practically going out of business. Best for Apple to stay away from Tower Records all together.

Best to work with larger distributors liek Target or Wal-Mart where people are more likely to buy CD's. ALso, Apple's got their retail store infrastructure. Might as well leverage that.



:cool:

FYI, it is Wherehouse that is going out of business. I have to say that I don't mind them going away. Most of their rock music was upwards of $20. Sorry, but I'm not giving $20 for Sticky Fingers.

Tower is doing well from what I can tell. I used to buy music from them until the iTMS came out.:cool:

Also, I am graphic designer for a few independent artists and I would love to see the indies get onto the iTMS. If Apple can do that, they will be recognized big time in the indepedent music scene.