Some Panther Details?

[MacRumors]

Rosai Group posts (http://techs.rosai.com/pro/info.html) some details regarding the upcoming Panther upgrade.

Panther 10.3 will, as Jaguar 10.2 did, introduce and enable a lot of new functionality for both users and in network servers.


They describe improved Quicktime performance, focus on Directory Services, new open file system features, network browsing and printing improvements... along with the multiple (graphical) user login.

The source of these details is unclear, as no previous information has come from Rosai.

[MacManiac1224]

sounds good to me, I think that these features are well needed to make an inudstrial strength operating system comparable to things like Solaris and other Unix variants.

[Windowlicker]

oh please, please let the multiple user login be there!! I need it almost every day!

[Laslo Panaflex]

I think that all of the rumor talk has overshadowed how exciting Panther is and how good it should be. I can't wait for the show of Panther on Monday, anything else is just a bonus.

[shadowfax]

the most interesting thing to me in all this is the finder improvements. smart folders... sounds pretty cool to me!

[michaelrjohnson]

They make a very good point about staggered releases.. However, I still think WWDC is a great place for Steve to show off. I am very excited to see panther, I wonder when it will ship??? Anyhow, i think Panther is going to be very exciting, i would love to see a revolutionized finder "departing" from the system 7 approach. I think from this point on our ease of use and productivity will only go up!!! :)

[shadowfax]

what did they mean by Apple updating OS X every year-and-a-half? it's been less than a year since Jaguar, and I can't imagine that they will wait much past september to put Panther on the shelves.... i hope.... at any rate, it darn well better come before February of 2004, when this article seems to suggest it will.

[richard5mith]

Any previous report has expected it in September.

[emdezet]

i sure hope they really beefed up the printer interfacing. just this week i had to install MacOS 9 back onto my 10GB X-only-iBookHD just to be able to print the paper i had to hand in that day.

network panel told me apple talk was active and print center told me it wasn't. servers on the lan were available, but print center wouldn't let me add network apple talk printers.

fortunately appleworks still runs on OS9.

[heathpitts]

I agree that the printer features need updating. That is the biggest weakness that I can see with Jaguar.

[Ja Di ksw]

I didn't see anything about Piles. Are they still a possibility? People seemed to be really excited about them for awhile, but then a tiny blurb about them possibly not be included came out, and the Pile talk just died

[oliverlubin]

"Attend WWDC and you can walk away with your own preview copy..."

is this considered fact?

[macnews]

Printer and scanner support are the weakest items in OS X right now in my opinion. I have had HP,Microtek and Umax scanners that have worked off and on with different versions of OS X. I would like to know that they will just work - like the other parts of the digital hub. The same happens with printers! I have one Apple laser writer that will not work over airport (not extreme) on OS 10.4 or higher. PLEASE FIX printers and scanners with Panther. I don't like the short upgrade time frame but am hoping they will give Jaguar buyers a discounted upgrade price.

[richard5mith]

Originally posted by oliverlubin
"Attend WWDC and you can walk away with your own preview copy..."

is this considered fact?

Yes, Apple already announced that all conference attendees would get a copy.

[AppleMatt]

I'm really excited about this:

QuickTime performance from a revised architecture featuring reentrant code (so multiple applications or threads can make calls to QuickTime simultaneously). Since the existing QuickTime is based on--and contains much of--the classic Mac OS, it can't make use of Mac OS X's multithreaded features. New conferencing and collaboration features will tightly integrate QuickTime with existing iApps, and of course, enable some new ones.

I use QuickTime a lot, and had no idea it was still based so much on OS9 code. Also QT performance is pretty impressive already, so better performance :)

I wonder what the tighter integration will entail aswell. Panther's gonna be good!

Matt

[emdezet]

Originally posted by Ja Di ksw
the Pile talk just died

true. i was super-psyched by the idea of Piles and the iPod-dial-Mouse constituting a new interface paradigm.

i really hate Apple for stubbornly shipping one button mice only. i know, there are tons of usb-mice out there. but why register a patent like that dial-mouse and not market it.

[richard5mith]

Originally posted by Ja Di ksw
I didn't see anything about Piles. Are they still a possibility? People seemed to be really excited about them for awhile, but then a tiny blurb about them possibly not be included came out, and the Pile talk just died

The Smart Folders that the article talks about is kind of like how Piles were being described, where you specified something like an iTunes Smart Playlist (like give me all files updated in the last week from these folders) and you got a pile of documents made up with the result of that query. As the documents on your disk changed, the pile changed automagically.

So this sounds the same, just without the pile part, but displaying as a normal folder.

[AppleMatt]

new APIs for Text

Maybe this will bring improvements to the 'blurry text' that a lot of people don't like.

AppleMatt

[maradong]

oh, where ar my piles.. I really need them ;-)

[michaelrjohnson]

Gosh... I hadn't realized that attendees would recieve a copy!!! that's SO amazing... we can get feature-laden threads in this forum.. (somebody MUST be going).

I too am excited about "Smart" folders, could prove helpful.

[shadowfax]

just a reminder--this article doesn't encompass all new Panther features, i hope. if it failed to mention one, that shouldn't be taken as meaning that it won't be there ;)

[iShater]

Inevitable question, paid upgrade for Jaguar users? any discounts? I know I got some kind of proof of 10.2 coupon like forms in the iBook box.

Any information about that anywhere?

[strider42]

Originally posted by iShater
Inevitable question, paid upgrade for Jaguar users? any discounts? I know I got some kind of proof of 10.2 coupon like forms in the iBook box.

Any information about that anywhere?

Obviously no info out there since 10.3 isn't released yet.

As for the coupons in the iBook box, apple always does this. its usually for if you buy a machine directly before an OS upgrade. SO they won't be any good to you at all.

As for discounts, why would apple offer discounts to 10.2 users. If they are going to charge for it (I think they probably will), they are going to charge everyone full price. They've never offered upgrade pricing before, probably because most people upgrading already have 10.2, so they don't need to offer the incentive and lose money because of it.

[MacsRgr8]

Finally some attention to Panther!

10.3 speed improvements....hmmmm no need for a 970 now :D

[iShater]

Originally posted by strider42
Obviously no info out there since 10.3 isn't released yet.

As for the coupons in the iBook box, apple always does this. its usually for if you buy a machine directly before an OS upgrade. SO they won't be any good to you at all.

As for discounts, why would apple offer discounts to 10.2 users. If they are going to charge for it (I think they probably will), they are going to charge everyone full price. They've never offered upgrade pricing before, probably because most people upgrading already have 10.2, so they don't need to offer the incentive and lose money because of it.

Ah, so that is what those are for. Oh well, I couldn't wait.

Other OS vendors (mainly MS) charge an upgrade price and full price. So if you bought Windows XP, you would get an upgrade price for Longhorn, but if you have NT, you don't get the upgrade pricing.

If they stick to the $129 or even less, it would be worth it.

[jimthorn]

What is the big deal about Piles? Smart Folders I can see being useful, but I just don't see the point of the Pile concept.

[AppleMatt]

Originally posted by jimthorn
What is the big deal about Piles? Smart Folders I can see being useful, but I just don't see the point of the Pile concept.

What are smart folders? I have read no rumors on these (aside from this thread and linked article).

AppleMatt

[Freg3000]

Originally posted by AppleMatt
What are smart folders? I have read no rumors on these (aside from this thread and linked article).

AppleMatt

Smart folders would presumably work like smart playlists in iTunes, so files would automatically be sorted according to their type. So, if you downloaded a MOV or MPEG file, it would head to your Movie folder in your home directory. Sounds cool to me. :)

[shadowfax]

yeah, only it would extend beyond file types i am sure. you could probably make folders that would then contain all files with a certain size range, or a certain word in the filename, or something like that. man, that will be a nice feature. you could use it to find the biggest files on youf computer to clear out space, for instance. here's hoping :)

[QuiteSure]

The happiest Apple could make me would be to configure Panther and the seemingly inevitable 970 machine to optimize performance on VPC. If I could get the VPC emulator to run at least as well as the Classic emulator that would really open up amazing things for me.

[Java]

I know, a little off topic, but has anyone heard of a price yet? I don't want to shell out another $129 bucks for panther (although I probably will anyways).

I really hope this is just one big software update.

[Malic]

All I wanna hear is "Significant Finder performance improvements."

It's interesting to see that there is legacy code in places that one wouldn't think; re: QuickTime. With work being done in that area and others, I think I may partly get my wish.

Oh. That and a FINAL solution for my iSub not waking up after putting my iMac DV to sleep!!! I've been unplugging and re-plugging my USB chain regularly for MONTHS (years?!) to resolve this problem when it occurs!

Heck, if Pather resolved that one issue, I'd be happy. I'm easy to please. :D

[coolfactor]

Originally posted by Java
I know, a little off topic, but has anyone heard of a price yet? I don't want to shell out another $129 bucks for panther (although I probably will anyways).

I really hope this is just one big software update.

I guarantee it won't be "one big software update". These major new versions are like completely new operating systems in their own right and $129 is peanuts compared to the benefits us users will reap as a result of the engineers' hard work. They deserve my $200 Canadian.

I'll also be upgrading and renewing my .Mac account.

[nicmac]

If the manufacturers of wide format printers are not going to supply us with drivers that work perhaps Apple will help out. We are suffering out here and leaking oil. HELP US!!

[nagromme]

Just to clear up a common misconception:

Apple does offer upgrade pricing, just like MS does--you do NOT have to pay full price again for any new versions of Mac OS.

$129 IS the upgrade price. So... what's the full/original price? Built in to the cost of your Mac--whether it was OS 9, 10.1, or whatever. So we never see that cost to compare.

With Windows you can buy the OS by itself to put on a machine that never came with it. So you can see two prices, "new" and "upgrade." Macs ALWAYS come with the OS already, so we never SEE a "new" price to compare.

Forget 970s... getting Panther on my CURRENT Mac this fall is the big news! I hope half that stuff is true.

[DamnDJ]

Originally posted by nagromme


$129 IS the upgrade price. So... what's the full/original price? Built in to the cost of your Mac--whether it was OS 9, 10.1, or whatever. So we never see that cost to compare.


While this is nice spin, it's pretty much a made up story.

http://store.apple.com/1-800-MY-APPLE/WebObjects/AppleStore?productLearnMore=M8712LL/A

Regardless if I even have a Mac, it's still $129. If I build my own G4, I'd still have to pay $129.

Don't get me wrong, I won't mind paying the $129 fee, but don't try to say this is the upgrade price because it's not. ;)

[myrdred23]

Well considering installing an Apple OS on a non-apple computer is against the EULA, he is right, it is the upgrade price!

Because its impossible to legally use that operating system on a computer that you are not upgrading, thus it is the upgrade price.

[DamnDJ]

Originally posted by myrdred23
Well considering installing an Apple OS on a non-apple computer is against the EULA, he is right, it is the upgrade price!

Because its impossible to legally use that operating system on a computer that you are not upgrading, thus it is the upgrade price.

Heh, really? Okay, if that's the case then I am wrong. Oh well, bring on Panther! Full or upgrade price! ;)

[Lepton]

Smart Folders would be immensly useful. My speculation about it is this: You create a new Smart Folder and it automatically fills with aliases to existing items that meet whatever smart criteria you specify.

You tell it to contain all Movie files, and presto you have a folder full of aliases to every movie file on your disk, and as new movie files are created anywhere on your disk, new aliases appear in the folder, as files are deleted, so are the corresponding aliases.

I guess you might be able to specify any criteria that you can now put in the Finder's Find command. How about a smart folder holding all files that contain "Macintosh" _anywhere in their text content_? Cool!

[ginoledesma]

I know this is too much to ask, but I'm just _hoping_ that Apple makes the update for free. I hope they stick to the pattern that "odd numbered releases = free, even numbered releases = paid". :)

Their reasoning for Jaguar being a paid OS was that it had "too many new features" to fit into a free [downloadable] release (it did, after all, come with 2 install discs excluding the developer tools disc). I'm only speculating at this point that all new OS revisions will have "too many new features" to fit into a downloadable release. Hmph. So far what's Panther got? There's Piles, for starters, and a new filesystem? As not much is advertised yet, it still hasn't bordered on "too many new features" (8.1 did after all get a new FS, and it wasn't a paid-upgrade).

Here's hoping... (10.3 + .Mac subscription renewal + G5 Mac = dead broke!!!).

[AppleMatt]

I would like for the $19.95 thing (or walk into Apple store and get it for free), and the same over here (UK). Somehow I just don't see it happening.

Originally posted by Malic
It's interesting to see that there is legacy code in places that one wouldn't think; re: QuickTime.

Yes that shocked me too!

AppleMatt

[burntoutjoy]

Originally posted by ginoledesma
I know this is too much to ask, but I'm just _hoping_ that Apple makes the update for free. I hope they stick to the pattern that "odd numbered releases = free, even numbered releases = paid". :)

...

Here's hoping... (10.3 + .Mac subscription renewal + G5 Mac = dead broke!!!).

Dude, it's not going to happen, and if I'd been developing Panther, this reply'd be a lot more harsh than it is ;)

This is a *major update*, and the reason for it being paid is not because it's too big a download. A huge amount of work has no doubt gone into Panther - Apple aren't just going to give it away for (bandwidth +) free.

We haven't heard about many features because Apple haven't officially told us yet. I'm sure when they do tell us, it'll be clear this'll be a great update.

Apple are *certainly* getting my £70, no questions asked.

[BillyShears]

Originally posted by Lepton
Smart Folders would be immensly useful. My speculation about it is this: You create a new Smart Folder and it automatically fills with aliases to existing items that meet whatever smart criteria you specify.

You tell it to contain all Movie files, and presto you have a folder full of aliases to every movie file on your disk, and as new movie files are created anywhere on your disk, new aliases appear in the folder, as files are deleted, so are the corresponding aliases.

I guess you might be able to specify any criteria that you can now put in the Finder's Find command. How about a smart folder holding all files that contain "Macintosh" _anywhere in their text content_? Cool!

As I recall, I read about "smart folders" in an older MacOS. I think it was something like you drag a font file (myFont.ttf) onto your "System" folder, and it automatically moves it to "System/Fonts/" Something like that, but I like your idea better, and it sounds more like iTunes, which is the analogy I keep hearing when this is discussed.

I believe the new FS is going to be database driven (I think I heard that, somewhere... rumors rumors everywhere but none to drink). If that were so, we could have really, really cool "smart folders." For instance, "All .psd files opened in the past week"... that would be "Recent Projects." You'd no longer have to keep track of where you are storing files (sort of), because when you wanted to open one, all the ones you worked on recently would be there.

[Ananna]

I would really like to see some insanely great font management make its way into Panther. Or at least, improvement on the font management that is in Jaguar. Or at least something, anything.

Auto-activation of fonts where the system finds the font on your hard disk and temporarily or permanently adds it to the Font menu. They could call it "Smart Fonts".

Just any improvement would be nice.

Or Adobe coming out with ATM Deluxe for Panther. I so miss ATM Deluxe.

[Doctor Q]

I still haven't figured out if it makes sense for a typical family to use multiple logins. It makes sense to have Junior's homework in his own home directory, and Mom and Dad's financial documents separate, and separate e-mail for each person, but iPhoto libraries, desktop pictures, some Internet bookmarks, and various other items often want to be shared because they are for the whole family. If Mom bookmarks the novel she wants for Mother's Day, others in the family should be able to see it. Having family members drop copies of files in each other's drop boxes (and then lose track of who's got which version) is a pain.

Using multiple logins is simply a tradeoff as things are now, and I wonder if Apple's got some ideas up their sleeve in this regard.

[jelloshotsrule]

very well said doc..

my parents sometimes use separate logins and it seems to cause more problems than anything else...

especially because they're not terribly computer savvy, so trying to get them to share files is just going to fall on me or my brothers to tell them how... a pain...

we'll see if multiple users at once or whatever we are hearing bout will help...

[whawho]

Originally posted by Malic
All I wanna hear is "Significant Finder performance improvements."

It's interesting to see that there is legacy code in places that one wouldn't think; re: QuickTime. With work being done in that area and others, I think I may partly get my wish.

Oh. That and a FINAL solution for my iSub not waking up after putting my iMac DV to sleep!!! I've been unplugging and re-plugging my USB chain regularly for MONTHS (years?!) to resolve this problem when it occurs!

Heck, if Pather resolved that one issue, I'd be happy. I'm easy to please. :D

I feel ya on the "Significant Finder performance improvements." I just recently bought a new powermac...so I am not as excited as others upgrading to the possible 970's-->I hope the new Panther is an improvment on Jaguar as far as GUI is concerned... (not that Jaguar is slow or anything.) Just want something to be excited for. ;)

[Jeff Harrell]

Originally posted by Freg3000
Smart folders would presumably work like smart playlists in iTunes, so files would automatically be sorted according to their type. So, if you downloaded a MOV or MPEG file, it would head to your Movie folder in your home directory. Sounds cool to me. :)
Smart folders would be incredibly easy to implement in the Finder. The Finder already understands packages, which are just directories with a designated name suffix and a predefined structure. To implement smart folders, just define a new package format (".smart" or something) and put a plist file defining query criteria inside, in /Contents. When the user double-clicks on such a folder, the Finder would open a window and run the query. The only tricky part would be figuring out the caching, but it seems like they pretty much got that one nailed with iTunes. (I have many thousands of songs in my library. Smart folders are instantaneous.)
Originally posted by ginoledesma
I know this is too much to ask, but I'm just _hoping_ that Apple makes the update for free. I hope they stick to the pattern that "odd numbered releases = free, even numbered releases = paid". :)
I don't know if you're kidding or not, but this is really one of my pet peeves. Apple has never established any such pattern, either officially or unofficially. We've had one free upgrade to Mac OS X and one $129 upgrade. You could say that the next upgrade should be free... but you could just as easy say that it should be $258!

Of course, I think it would be pretty spiffy if Panther buyers got a steep discount on their .Mac subscription, though. I'm staring at $99 come the end of this year, and I'm not feeling very good about it. Between that and the new Harry Potter book... whew! ;)

[Wonder Boy]

sounds good...but how much...especially for jag owners???