'Santa Rosa' Shipping from Intel Next Month (May)

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Businessweek (http://www.businessweek.com/globalbiz/content/apr2007/gb20070419_847785.htm?chan=top+news_top+news+index_global+business) reports on Intel's upcoming mobile initiative, with a report confirming that the Intel "Santa Rosa" platform will be launching next month (May).

The Intel executive also noted that Intel's Santa Rosa platform will start shipping in notebooks from next month. The mobile platform will comprise an Intel Core 2 Duo processor, the mobile Intel 965 Express chipset family, 802.11n Wi-Fi connectivity and optional Intel Turbo memory that has been touted to improve application performance.

The Santa Rosa platform was previously detailed (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/25/next-generation-intel-platform-santa-rosa-tracking-for-may/) in February. It is essentially a mobile platform from Intel which incorporates the Core 2 Duo, 800Mhz front speed bus, improved graphics chipset and Intel's Robson flash-based caching technology.

This technology could correspond with reports of an Apple flash-based (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/08/flash-based-apple-laptops-again/) laptop have been ongoing for months. The most recent expectations (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/08/flash-based-apple-laptops-again/) have predicted them coming from Apple in "second half of 2007".

Our Buyer's Guide (http://buyersguide.macrumors.com/) points to MacBook and MacBook Pros approaching the end of their product cycles, based on historical update timeframes.

[superleccy]

Come on. Superleccy wants a new MBP.

SL

[zwida]

Come on. Superleccy wants a new MBP.

SL

I'll second that. This is what I keep saying I've been waiting for before pulling the trigger on a new MBP.

[koalition]

:) Great! Been waiting for ages!

[twoodcc]

good news indeed! looking forward to it ;) :apple:

[BenRoethig]

I expect new Santa Rosa Macs somewhere between june and august. If only my iBook could have held on a bit longer.

[AliensAreFuzzy]

I want one. :drool:

[student_trap]

i reckon it'll be put in macs around the same time as leopard arrives

[KIRA]

I'm excited! I cant wait to get my very first mac (MBP)!

[puckhead193]

cool, seems like a good time to update before all the kiddies get new computers for college

[Eidorian]

I've updated the guide (http://guides.macrumors.com/Merom)...

[xfusejc]

Here's to hoping it comes out during the summer.

[NewSc2]

Hm, how will Apple handle Santa Rosa with all the other emerging technologies -- Leopard, backlit LED displays, flash memory, etc.?

[flopticalcube]

Hm, how will Apple handle Santa Rosa with all the other emerging technologies -- Leopard, backlit LED displays, flash memory, etc.?

Easy. They will take people off the iPhone. :D

[aarond12]

I wonder if Apple is planning to use this technology in the Mac Mini. It's about due for an upgrade as well. My G4 Mac Mini has been waiting to be upgraded until Apple came out with something with a better graphics engine.

-Aaron-

[sikkinixx]

*feels the money in my pocket* my god its burning a hole in my jeans....

HURRY APPLE TAKE ADVANTAGE OF ME! RELEASE NOW!

[DsurioN]

So maybe WWDC won't be as disappointing as I thought it would be....

[Rocketman]

I have been clicking around Intel's website to try to get some specifics on Santa Rosa.

It supports better integrated graphics which makes sense since Apple has been ramping the minimum requirements for apps to the point where even the most recent shipping MacBook does not meet the requirements for some of their own software.

My understanding it it also increases the addressable memory to be "compatible" with true 64 bit systems, a first for Apple in low end systems. My hope is this means an update from 3GB max to 8GB max in low end systems. Memory prices drop over time and a 3 year old mac should be able to address the CHEAP 8GB memory available to it in three years.

The integrated wireless features are good. One wonders just how much "unsupported" wimax is in Santa Rosa considering the wimax rollout for Intel in early 2008.

Now that processors are so fast, the whole benefit to Robson is not boot times, but rather in energy savings, and in wake/sleep hardware wear reduction.

Rocketman

[Bern]

According to someone in another forum Apple will lock out all existing Intel Macs from using Leopard so we'll all have to upgrade to the new chipset anyways :D

Realistically though, any new Macs that may incorporate Santa Rosa won't be around until later in the year (probably October when Leopard is released as someone already mentioned). With that in mind I'm not waiting. I really need my new MBP and Adobe CS3.

[johnee]

agreed. I have the money, if I don't buy a mbp after wwdc, I might just spend it on something else.

[zap2]

About time...lets see thoughs new MacBook, iMac, MacBook and Mac Minis!!

This is one huge faul of Apple's whole line using laptop chips...updates will either all come at the same time, or be update with chip other PC maker are already using!!

[bommai]

Contrary to what many people are saying in these forums, Apple (and most other SW/HW companies), don't change a lot of software and hardware at the same time. So, there will be new hardware coming out that run Tiger. When Leopard comes out there will be no new hardware (at that time). Hardware will again be released at MWSF next January. It is a nightmare to deal with both new hardware and software at the sametime.

[benguin]

I hope they release sooner rather than later (obviously). I've been waiting a long time to upgrade from my 867mhz G4 12" PB. At this point though, there's no way I'm not waiting. I was really hoping to upgrade this spring though, not summer. :-/

[jwp333]

I'll take a Santa Rosa update in my new iMac or Mini, and you can hold the Leopard.

[landis]

wow, we all knew this was happening. really no new information.

[guitarmaster18]

Yeah, I'll sell my juced up macbook like the day before leopard and Santa Rosa come out to some poor unknowing soul. Lol, but, anyway, I am interested in the new GMA any word on the power, or if you will be able to adjust how much RAM it dedicates to itself? Thanks.

[localoid]

wow, we all knew this was happening. really no new information.

Yep. Intel said this last week, at its Developers Forum in Beijing...

[yagran]

sounds awesome. hope this comes in mac mini format. as that would mean i could end up putting a 2.3Ghz processor in a mac mini with santa rosa and the improved graphics and up to 4GB of ram in a mac mini.. YUMMY.

[kalii]

So will Macs get re-freshed before Leopard or not? I just couldn't imagine Apple letting the product line stagnate that long it has already been a long time for MB's and Minis. And how much of a performance boost will SR give macs overall? From what I've read not that much.

[maxink]

The 100 dollars off the printer rebate ends today and tomorrow is Tuesday. I am hopping to see an iMac refresh very soon. It is WAY overdue and I will be buying my father his first mac (24" imac) May 3rd. Anyone care to speculate on the chances of seeing this happen in the next two weeks. The rumor sites have been silent about this matter lately.

[yagran]

So will Macs get re-freshed before Leopard or not? I just couldn't imagine Apple letting the product line stagnate that long it has already been a long time for MB's and Minis. And how much of a performance boost will SR give macs overall? From what I've read not that much.

like i said it will support faster processors and memory and better graphics. if thats not a big enough boost i dont know what is?! lol

[FF_productions]

Finally some updates coming soon..

[iJawn108]

I want new mini's so i can buy one for my mom we are in need of a new desktop.

[flopticalcube]

The 100 dollars off the printer rebate ends today and tomorrow is Tuesday. I am hopping to see an iMac refresh very soon. It is WAY overdue and I will be buying my father his first mac (24" imac) May 3rd. Anyone care to speculate on the chances of seeing this happen in the next two weeks. The rumor sites have been silent about this matter lately.

Minis and iMacs are both overdue. Even a spec bump/price drop would be welcome. Come on :apple:.

[Cult Follower]

I hope apple gets on this right away, they need to stay ahead of the competition.

[irishgrizzly]

I want new mini's so i can buy one for my mom we are in need of a new desktop.

Same boat – mum needs a new computer and if the mini gets this update it would be perfect. Her first computer and I've been talking her out of getting a Dell.

I'm wondering what practical advantages this new chip set will offer. Faster booting with the flash memory? faster application booting? Stronger wifi signal? Is there much that could be demonstrated to someone who was not up on the finer points of Intel speed bumps, if say you put old and new together – how would you tell the difference?

[agentmouthwash]

According to someone in another forum Apple will lock out all existing Intel Macs from using Leopard so we'll all have to upgrade to the new chipset anyways :D

Realistically though, any new Macs that may incorporate Santa Rosa won't be around until later in the year (probably October when Leopard is released as someone already mentioned). With that in mind I'm not waiting. I really need my new MBP and Adobe CS3.


Everything you said is completely wrong.

[Samwise592]

Everything you said is completely wrong.


I completely agree.

Apple cant afford to integrate Santa Rosa ANY later than July, my bet is on early june, or mabye even late may. With all thease delays going on they need SOME incentive for people to buy macs.

Not to mention ALL of the buyers guides saying that the macbook pro, macbook, mini, and imac are all due for an update, some as long as a month overdue.

I'm NOT gonna buy until i get Santa Rosa.

[thesnowman16]

http://computershopper.com/shoptalk/2007/03/07/intel_centrino_pro_set_to_laun

There we go! :cool:

[thesnowman16]

Everything you said is completely wrong.

QFT

[agentmouthwash]

I completely agree.

Apple cant afford to integrate Santa Rosa ANY later than July, my bet is on early june, or mabye even late may. With all thease delays going on they need SOME incentive for people to buy macs.

Not to mention ALL of the buyers guides saying that the macbook pro, macbook, mini, and imac are all due for an update, some as long as a month overdue.

I'm NOT gonna buy until i get Santa Rosa.

I feel the same way. There is no way Apple is going to wait until late summer, or October to release new computers. They are coming to lose out to other companies (Like Dell) having newer chips and running programs like Photoshop faster than on Macs. If Santa Rosa comes out in May, Apple will release new computers with this chips at WWDC in June the latest.

Plus, why would Apple lock out current macs to run leopard? that is the most idiotic thing I've ever heard. They would love so much revenue. Leopard will most likely run on every G4/G4/Intel system - of course some features will not run on the older PowerPC chips, but that doesn't mean the OS will be locked out from it.

[Dustman]

actually, wouldnt it be awesome if they kept the ppc models in the apple store, like actually kept up with the powerpc technology while also having the option to go intel. that way u could have the choice and all applications can be made to work since they're now native on both platforms..

just a thought.. i really like powerpc and i think the g5 is the best processor ever created, definetly ahead of the competition at its time.. :D Come on guys, agree, ppc is what made apple unique. it had that much more "power"

[Rocketman]

I hope apple gets on this right away, they need to stay ahead of the competition.

1. There is no "actual" competition.

2. Steevie is still (secretly) the "insanely great" guy. As such he "skipped" one full update cycle to deliver whatever we are about to see. Fasten your seatbelts.

Free advise to Dell. Dude, bring that guy back and in your commercial out-do-apple by having him pass a joint :)

Rocketman

Did "I" say that? Shame :p

[Rocketman]

actually, wouldnt it be awesome if they kept the ppc models in the apple store, like actually kept up with the powerpc technology while also having the option to go intel. that way u could have the choice and all applications can be made to work since they're now native on both platforms..

just a thought.. i really like powerpc and i think the g5 is the best processor ever created, definetly ahead of the competition at its time.. :D Come on guys, agree, ppc is what made apple unique. it had that much more "power"

The G5 has legs for at least three more years. That says something indeed.

Did you hear? IBM now has a "multi-layer" processor. G7?

Rocketman

[Bern]

Everything you said is completely wrong.

well duh! I realise that. That is my point. :rolleyes:

hence the first two words in the next paragraph "In reality....". My opinion (I should have said that) is we won't see Santa Rosa this side of July.

I should spell things out for people on this form more clearly!

[Zadillo]

actually, wouldnt it be awesome if they kept the ppc models in the apple store, like actually kept up with the powerpc technology while also having the option to go intel. that way u could have the choice and all applications can be made to work since they're now native on both platforms..

just a thought.. i really like powerpc and i think the g5 is the best processor ever created, definetly ahead of the competition at its time.. :D Come on guys, agree, ppc is what made apple unique. it had that much more "power"

Mac OS is what makes Apple unique; their choice of processor wasn't really ever a benefit to them, and it's only helped them to switch to Intel (they don't have to worry about stagnation in the PowerPC line, especially as a mobile CPU)..... if for no other reason than that it makes it a lot easier for some people to switch to Macs and still use Windows if they want/need to.

-Zadillo

[flopticalcube]

well duh! I realise that. That is my point. :rolleyes:

hence the first two words in the next paragraph "In reality....". My opinion (I should have said that) is we won't see Santa Rosa this side of July.

I should spell things out for people on this form more clearly!

From the BusinessWeek article
The Intel executive also noted that Intel's Santa Rosa platform will start shipping in notebooks from next month.

I would hope that Apple is one of those, or not too soon after. New MBP at WWDC anyone?

[thesnowman16]

From the BusinessWeek article


I would hope that Apple is one of those, or not too soon after. New MBP at WWDC anyone?


I know Dell are, there are several university websites around already advertising dell laptops with Santa Rosa chips in them for sale in 'early may'.

With the current release date rumored to by 9th May this would make sense.

Hope apple aren't far behind (We could really use some new MBPs and iMacs)

[ortuno2k]

Cool, I hope we see new Macs soon.

[thesnowman16]

Cool, I hope we see new Macs soon.

I'm sure we will see new macs within the next two months :D

[Stridder44]

actually, wouldnt it be awesome if they kept the ppc models in the apple store, like actually kept up with the powerpc technology while also having the option to go intel. that way u could have the choice and all applications can be made to work since they're now native on both platforms..



No. PPC + Mac = dead. Get over it. Things are way better now anyways. Jobs doesn't have to promise "3ghz by next summer!!" anymore because Intel is so damn awesome at churning out new tech.

And yeah, I think we'll see this between May/June. July would be too late.


But Apple must really have something crazy planned. I mean the whole line up + Mac OS (and iLife) is all about to be updated and has been kept a secret for a while now. I'm thinking Apple's going to change their look/image (removing the "Computer" from their name is also kind of a lead for this).

[Daveway]

I'm sticking with my May 8th prediction. It seems to fit perfectly with Apple's release schedule and the shipping dates on already announced SR notebooks.

[pimentoLoaf]

I'm waiting on Leopard before replacing my audio/video powerBook from 2003.

Question: wouldn't there have to be some kind of hard drive in these things for backup, should the Flash RAM fail? Or do I have it wrong that FR still needs a trickle of juice to maintain data?

[Tadros86]

but I have a feeling everything will be updated at WWDC07 if not sooner. Maybe May will be the month for iMacs and Mac Minis to get their updates to SR and then June the Macbook Pro and then maybe July or August for the Macbook to go for their student consumer base . But they HAVE to upgrade their systems to SR, their are nothing but benefits from it and if they don't their isn't really anything special about Macs anymore. I mean, how would you feel if you were spending give or take 2500- 3000 dollars on a Macbook Pro when you can get a laptop that has wwwwaaayyyy better features from another company. The only upside is Tiger, but to keep with those switchers that will be using XP and Vista on their Macs Apple will have to update their systems soon. Updating with Leopard is unreal, especially since by then the newer chips will be out, what are they set for Late 07? if Oct. isn't late 07 then I don't know what is! Updating to SR in Oct, and then having the newer chip come out a month or two after is just plain stupid! Other companies will have the newer chip set coming out and Apple will lag behind on SR, the only real way to think about it, is Apple doesn't use SR at all and just jumps to the next chipset, which in it self is unheard of! They will update, they have too! The whole Apple product line is getting really past due. Did you see the iMac and Mac Mini??? That's crazy, thats why I think they will be the first to get the new chipsets, if not iMac, Mac Mini and the Macbook Pro all at the same time. . .

[natejohnstone@g]

Apple HAS to release the new Macbooks this summer--like July--in order to hit the back-to-school people. They can't wait, and can't affort to miss that market when Dell and HP will be hitting it hardcore as always. They HAVE to do it.
If Macbooks have to come out around July, then MBPs have to come out early June I'd guess if they want to give time for the impatient ones to get a MBP instead of waiting for the MB.
WWDC at the very latest for the MBPs, then.
Though if it were me :) ...
I'd release the new MBP as soon as they are ready (end of May?) and then release the new, improve, super-cool Macbooks at WWDC along with the iPhone, and give a killer rebate deal if you buy the new Macbook ($200 off iPhone or something). If they hit the back-to-schoolers BEFORE the guys from Dell and HP do, then Apple will cash in big-time.

[tuc]

My hope is this means an update from 3GB max to 8GB max in low end systems. Memory prices drop over time and a 3 year old mac should be able to address the CHEAP 8GB memory available to it in three years.

It's a good dream but, alas, it never works that way. In three years you will be able to get nice cheap DDR6 (or whatever) SODIMMs but the DDR2 (or whatever) that Santa Rosa needs will still be pricey. Take a look at PC2700 SODIMMs now, for example.

[bête noire]

I've updated the guide (http://guides.macrumors.com/Merom)...

Yes, you've added Santa Rosa. But is not the introduction to Merom out of date? It refers to the 'current Yonah', and Intel claims Merom 'will have', etc.

[Val-kyrie]

I think it will be interesting to see when Apple debuts its new lineup because of SR's inclusion of Intel Turbo Memory (i.e. the new name for Robson Cache technology). I find it hard to believe that Apple would include a new technology like this which could significantly lessen OS boot times, wake from sleep times, and program load times, without demonstrating it. I wonder if Apple will use SR initially without the Intel Turbo Memory in some or all models or wait to demonstrate it at WWDC 07. (Of course, if there is little to no gain from it, then it may just be another silent update, but I doubt it.) To me, the answer to this question will determine the release date of new hardware.

[Daveway]

I think it will be interesting to see when Apple debuts its new lineup because of SR's inclusion of Intel Turbo Memory (i.e. the new name for Robson Cache technology). I find it hard to believe that Apple would include a new technology like this which could significantly lessen OS boot times, wake from sleep times, and program load times, without demonstrating it. I wonder if Apple will use SR initially without the Intel Turbo Memory in some or all models or wait to demonstrate it at WWDC 07. (Of course, if there is little to no gain from it, then it may just be another silent update, but I doubt it.) To me, the answer to this question will determine the release date of new hardware.

I don't see them using it period, or as the Turbo name sake. It just doesn't seem like Apple's way to do so.

[Eidorian]

Yes, you've added Santa Rosa. But is not the introduction to Merom out of date? It refers to the 'current Yonah', and Intel claims Merom 'will have', etc.DDR2-667 seems to be the current standard for the Santa Rosa derived hardware that is already out,

Yes, you've added Santa Rosa. But is not the introduction to Merom out of date? It refers to the 'current Yonah', and Intel claims Merom 'will have', etc.You are more then free to fix that. :p

[flopticalcube]

I don't see them using it period, or as the Turbo name sake. It just doesn't seem like Apple's way to do so.

They could put a little button on the front of the machine labeled "Turbo"! That would soooooo retro! :D

[Derwillie]

Buying a black MacBook this week, refurb if possible, or new with SR if a blue moon is on the horizon tonight!

This is my first post! (but I have been doing some ‘research’ here for a few weeks)

Unfortunately the MB is not for me, but my wife (and since she doesn’t want to wait for SR, we’ll never know if I would have waited…). We have an ancient PC that needs replacing & she is used to Macs at work (she’s a teacher & her school uses them exclusively). So she wants to get a MB with the educational discount before she takes maternity leave (2 new additions to the family: our first child & our first Mac!). I already have a new-ish Compaq laptop for my grad school work but after my ‘research’ into Macs, I wish it needed replacing too! I think her new black MB is going to make me green with envy…

p.s. I am definitely more excited about the baby ~ : )

[tristan]

MBP in June, MB in August. I know this because I can paint the future like that guy in Heroes.

Oh, and the MBP benchmarks won't be that great. C'mon people, it's just a 20% increase in bus speed. From the hype you'd think that Intel was installing a 32 gig flash blu-ray wireless cache drive with tokyo drift support.

Santa Rosa will be great for the MB though, because the onboard graphics chip is supposed to be a major improvement over the current offal. Did I say offal? I meant the current offering. Sorry.

[Episteme]

I have been clicking around Intel's website to try to get some specifics on Santa Rosa.

It supports better integrated graphics which makes sense since Apple has been ramping the minimum requirements for apps to the point where even the most recent shipping MacBook does not meet the requirements for some of their own software.

My understanding it it also increases the addressable memory to be "compatible" with true 64 bit systems, a first for Apple in low end systems. My hope is this means an update from 3GB max to 8GB max in low end systems. Memory prices drop over time and a 3 year old mac should be able to address the CHEAP 8GB memory available to it in three years.

It'll probably be 6 or 7GB.

You need some space for memory mapped IO. That's why the current systems are 3GB RAM even though the chipset supports 4GB.

The integrated wireless features are good. One wonders just how much "unsupported" wimax is in Santa Rosa considering the wimax rollout for Intel in early 2008.

None. All the wireless options are external to the main chipset. SR uses the same chipset as currently ships in the MB/MBP, ie Intel 4965AGN, and is usually on a card.

Now that processors are so fast, the whole benefit to Robson is not boot times, but rather in energy savings, and in wake/sleep hardware wear reduction.

Rocketman

That would be an implementation detail, I believe.

One thing no-one's touched on is the dynamic FSB switching, which provides extra power savings by halving the clockspeed when idling, much like the CPU frequency already does. Not a huge deal but power savings are always nice.

[Episteme]

MBP in June, MB in August. I know this because I can paint the future like that guy in Heroes.

Oh, and the MBP benchmarks won't be that great. C'mon people, it's just a 20% increase in bus speed. From the hype you'd think that Intel was installing a 32 gig flash blu-ray wireless cache drive with tokyo drift support.

Santa Rosa will be great for the MB though, because the onboard graphics chip is supposed to be a major improvement over the current offal. Did I say offal? I meant the current offering. Sorry.

Here's hoping they beef up the GPU on the MBP too. :)

[Stella]

Its been a few years since the Powerbooks had a redesign. Perhaps this is coming soon, especially since the PPC -> Intel transition is over, in terms of hardware?

[dAlen]

Ill tell you how it will work.

They will come out with Santa Rosa and everyone will buy.

But then they will release Leopard in Oct, and soon after (or in Jan) they will release Penrynn (whatever its called) that is at 40n process and actually is BUILT to work with Leopard.

You will see the advertisements, "Penrynn 40n processor and Leopard...the perfect match" - etc.

It is always like this. You buy the hardware then the new OS comes out and you realize that the machine you have actually isnt "primed" for the new OS.

So then your mind is already set on the idea of getting a machine that is "primed" for that OS. - in other words you are already looking to update.

Peace

[freddiecable]

sounds reasonable!

on another note: santa rosa looks more like a relevant update for MB/MBPs not that much for iMacs :confused:

Contrary to what many people are saying in these forums, Apple (and most other SW/HW companies), don't change a lot of software and hardware at the same time. So, there will be new hardware coming out that run Tiger. When Leopard comes out there will be no new hardware (at that time). Hardware will again be released at MWSF next January. It is a nightmare to deal with both new hardware and software at the sametime.

[Evangelion]

I wonder if Apple is planning to use this technology in the Mac Mini. It's about due for an upgrade as well. My G4 Mac Mini has been waiting to be upgraded until Apple came out with something with a better graphics engine.

-Aaron-

Mini will most likely get the regural Core 2's. After the upgrade we will have Mac Mini with 1.83Ghz Core 2 Duo, and Mac Mini with 2Ghz Core 2 Duo.

[Am3822]

So, will we be in for another round of 'Rev. A Horrors' once the new MacbookPro would be released?

[Evangelion]

But then they will release Leopard in Oct, and soon after (or in Jan) they will release Penrynn (whatever its called) that is at 40n process and actually is BUILT to work with Leopard.

Current processors will work just fine with Leopard. And Penryn is NOT "built to work with Leopard". That is, there are no features in Penryn that are specificly targetted at Leopard.

[Erasmus]

So, will we be in for another round of 'Rev. A Horrors' once the new MacbookPro would be released?

The first few might have flaws, but they won't be anything terrible, and probably not worth worrying about.

If SR MBP is classed as "Rev. A", I don't see how "Rev. B" or "Rev. C" can ever exist. I mean, it's not really much of an upgrade compared to sticking in Intel chips... Unless they do a massive redesign, which I really hope they do.

Either way, it's probably best to wait a week or two after they have been released to buy.

Oh, and um, I'm pretty sure the Leopard/Penryn thing is a joke... And also, Leopard will be out before Penryn, by at least a few months. I think MWSF2008 for the first Penryn macs. Compared to October for Leopard.

[Manic Mouse]

I don't understand why a lot of you are saying that Apple wont put SR in it's stuff until October, or 2150 or whatever. It's out next month and all their products using the mobile chipset are due for an upgrade. Why wont they simply release them as soon as possible like all other PC manufacturers?

[Episteme]

I don't understand why a lot of you are saying that Apple wont put SR in it's stuff until October, or 2150 or whatever. It's out next month and all their products using the mobile chipset are due for an upgrade. Why wont they simply release them as soon as possible like all other PC manufacturers?

Some here think Apple won't upgrade the hardware line until Leopard is ready.

Personally, I think Apple will upgrade much sooner than that, if only to keep the bulletpoints more or less equivalent to the Windows machines in time for the back-to-school market, lest the little darlings off to uni be lumbered with a more-impressive-sounding Windows laptop by the well-meaning-but-technically-inept parents who are paying for it.

However, this is Apple we're talking about...

[MArcoetpolo]

Hi everyone!
I also think that apple is about to upgrade the MP series!
But I was wondering about the X1600 Cards...
Thoses are outdated now....
And some people are saying that SR is just adding the "robson" technlogy....

If Apple want to conquer more users , they must improve their graphics!!!
why do you think?

[Evangelion]

If Apple want to conquer more users , they must improve their graphics!!!

If anything, they need to improve the screen-resolutions....

why do you think?

Because I can ;)?

[SPUY767]

It will be a good time for me to turn in that toshiba, onto which 10.4.8 is hacked of course, and invest in a new MBP.

[Val-kyrie]

MBP in June, MB in August. I know this because I can paint the future like that guy in Heroes.

Oh, and the MBP benchmarks won't be that great. C'mon people, it's just a 20% increase in bus speed. From the hype you'd think that Intel was installing a 32 gig flash blu-ray wireless cache drive with tokyo drift support.

Santa Rosa will be great for the MB though, because the onboard graphics chip is supposed to be a major improvement over the current offal. Did I say offal? I meant the current offering. Sorry.

MBP benchmarks may not be that great, but they should get a decent boost if not from a higher frequency (i.e. clocked) chip then from the new Intel chips with more L2 cache, should Apple choose to use them. For more information, see this article (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7006) over at anandtech.

[jwa276]

I think based on what happened with the C2D MacBook Pro's, we will see new MBP's no earlier than July- If anyone can recall, it took Apple a few months to even implement the C2D.

This new processor will need software enhancements to take advantage of the new flash hardware–and as everyone already knows, Apple is busting a$$ on getting the iPhone out by pooling all of it's software resources to help out with the phone's mini OSX.

It would be sweet to see Santa Rosa in Apple's mobile platforms at WWDC, but I am just guessing with all this hype there will be a LOT of angry and pissed off Apple fan's who are ready to buy a new laptop. Given Apple's history with the C2D MBP update, I highly doubt they will release an update at WWDC. The only thing that suggests an update is the average length between updates... Everything else is pointing at a summer/fall update alongside Leopard.

p.s. LONG LIVE THE C2D MACBOOK PRO'S!!! :)

[tristan]

MBP benchmarks may not be that great, but they should get a decent boost if not from a higher frequency (i.e. clocked) chip then from the new Intel chips with more L2 cache, should Apple choose to use them. For more information, see this article (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7006) over at anandtech.

Those are desktop chips... highest frequency notebook chip is still the 2.33ghz Core 2 Duo.

You can see the intel lineup and price list here:
http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/10/101302/Apr_22_07_1ku_Price_r3.pdf

Dueling links baby... I'm on fuego...

[BenRoethig]

MBP benchmarks may not be that great, but they should get a decent boost if not from a higher frequency (i.e. clocked) chip then from the new Intel chips with more L2 cache, should Apple choose to use them. For more information, see this article (http://www.dailytech.com/article.aspx?newsid=7006) over at anandtech.

Those are the E-series (desktop). The notebook C2Ds are the T-series.

[tristan]

I think based on what happened with the C2D MacBook Pro's, we will see new MBP's no earlier than July- If anyone can recall, it took Apple a few months to even implement the C2D.



I agree... BUT you can also argue that 2006 was a transition year for Apple and now they're going to come out with the Intel-based updates faster. Like you, I think that's just wishful thinking, but I can understand the argument and in another year or so that may be the case.

[Kissaragi]

ill wait for wwdc, if they dont update the mbps then ill buy one anyway. Wish they would drop the price on the mac mini, the base model needs to be in the £299 range

[ready2switch]

I think based on what happened with the C2D MacBook Pro's, we will see new MBP's no earlier than July- If anyone can recall, it took Apple a few months to even implement the C2D.

This new processor will need software enhancements to take advantage of the new flash hardware–and as everyone already knows, Apple is busting a$$ on getting the iPhone out by pooling all of it's software resources to help out with the phone's mini OSX.

It would be sweet to see Santa Rosa in Apple's mobile platforms at WWDC, but I am just guessing with all this hype there will be a LOT of angry and pissed off Apple fan's who are ready to buy a new laptop. Given Apple's history with the C2D MBP update, I highly doubt they will release an update at WWDC. The only thing that suggests an update is the average length between updates... Everything else is pointing at a summer/fall update alongside Leopard.

p.s. LONG LIVE THE C2D MACBOOK PRO'S!!! :)

There's always that possibility. However, the first Intel Macs were released at MWSF06 the day after Intel announced the original Core Duo (Yonah) chip. So, there is really no way to tell.

My advice (as if Apple needs it) would be to update the iMac and MBP by the end of May, show off iPhone at WWDC and have it release end of June, and let the MacBook lag about 6-8 weeks for an update in July before Back to School.

[Wolfpup]

My number one hope is that they give the MBP a user replaceable hard drive. Number two is that they give it a good GPU. With a user replaceable drive I probably would have bought a MBP months ago though.


Question: wouldn't there have to be some kind of hard drive in these things for backup, should the Flash RAM fail? Or do I have it wrong that FR still needs a trickle of juice to maintain data?

No, it doesn't need power to maintain data...and the technology is just a cache of a few GB max that basically gives the system the equivalent of more RAM (and/or lets it boot faster). Vista already supports this on USB drives and other flash cards, but Intel's doing this as a built-in solution, which might give better performance.

Hi everyone!
I also think that apple is about to upgrade the MP series!
But I was wondering about the X1600 Cards...
Thoses are outdated now....
And some people are saying that SR is just adding the "robson" technlogy....

If Apple want to conquer more users , they must improve their graphics!!!
why do you think?

Totally agree. The x1600 was a joke when it was first put in there. I mean it's fine for some people, but if you need/want 3D hardware, that was low end last year. I really hope they boost it.

I think based on what happened with the C2D MacBook Pro's, we will see new MBP's no earlier than July- If anyone can recall, it took Apple a few months to even implement the C2D.

I pointed that out in another thread, but was told that was because it took a while for the Core 2 to hit higher clock speeds-they didn't have the 2Ghz+chips right at launch, I guess (or at least no in quantity). I was told that actually Dell took a while to get the faster chips too (even though they introduced systems with the Core 2 right away).

In other words, I was told that Apple actually did start using Core 2 faster than what we think.

This new processor will need software enhancements to take advantage of the new flash hardware

I'm guessing if they plan on using it, they'll have support built-in to 10.5. I doubt they'll bother supporting in in 10.4, since it would have to be a major patch, and 10.5 is already out anyway.

[Clive At Five]

It is essentially a mobile platform from Intel which incorporates the Core 2 Duo, 800Mhz front speed bus, improved graphics chipset and Intel's Robson flash-based caching technology.

By the way, as you even quoted in Intel's statement about the product, "Robson Caching" is now called "Turbo Memory." I think that not only the guide should reflect this but also MR's reporting.

But maybe I'm being picky.

-Clive

[ordinaryworld]

i ordered a C2D 2.16 yesterday, though.

[dernhelm]

So does Intel have a 1GHz+ FSB anywhere on their mobile processor roadmap?

[Mydel]

Totally agree. The x1600 was a joke when it was first put in there. I mean it's fine for some people, but if you need/want 3D hardware, that was low end last year. I really hope they boost it.

And what would be an alternative?? I really don't see anything on the maket what could have some serious advantage over x1600. Its either power suckers which wont fit in MBP or cards that dont offer any real improvment:rolleyes:

[Squonk]

My advice (as if Apple needs it) would be to update the iMac and MBP by the end of May, show off iPhone at WWDC and have it release end of June, and let the MacBook lag about 6-8 weeks for an update in July before Back to School.

I think it is also logical that you'll see iMac/MBP's updated first and then followed by the Mini/MB's. And I surely HOPE that we are talking MBP's by the end of May. That means I should be seeing refurb SR/MBP's in early July and SHAZAM! it will be mine! :D

[MArcoetpolo]

, in the future I would like apple to communicate a bit more upon their choices , and roadmaps lol
Because 'im sure that there are millions of people wanting to Switch to Mac stuff waiting the proper opportunity! (hardware , leopard..)
Soooo sad ,
I hope that there will be 2.33Ghz , with 2Gb ram , and X1800 (which don't suck tooo much power...) and , it will be fine!!

Humm another question ,DX10? on Santa ROSA?
Dream?
lol

[Wolfpup]

And what would be an alternative?? I really don't see anything on the maket what could have some serious advantage over x1600. Its either power suckers which wont fit in MBP or cards that dont offer any real improvment:rolleyes:

So redesign the case! Function over form and all that.

[Mydel]

So redesign the case! Function over form and all that.
I dont agree! If you need real power go desktop. Notebook have to compromise on many fronts and GPU is one of them. I think that for is at least as important as funktion. I would NOT trade form over better GPU. Actually x1600 is not that bad. You dont have to play games on it.

[Wolfpup]

I dont agree! If you need real power go desktop. Notebook have to compromise on many fronts and GPU is one of them. I think that for is at least as important as funktion. I would NOT trade form over better GPU. Actually x1600 is not that bad. You dont have to play games on it.

Well, not all of us can use a desktop. Yeah, notebooks make compromises, but that dosen't mean they have to use a low-end GPU. Windows notebooks have been using Geforce 7800/7900 chips for over a year, and the mid range 7600 would be a decent upgrade too. I'm disapointed they didn't at least throw something better like that into the 17" model.

[ClimbingTheLog]

I'm sticking with my May 8th prediction. It seems to fit perfectly with Apple's release schedule and the shipping dates on already announced SR notebooks.

I think you're right about the date, but I'd expect we'll see SR iMacs then. For some reason the notebooks seem to lag a month or two and the iMacs get the new technology much more quickly. I'll have a 24" on order if that happens, hopefully with a sexy new case.

[diamond.g]

I dont agree! If you need real power go desktop. Notebook have to compromise on many fronts and GPU is one of them. I think that for is at least as important as funktion. I would NOT trade form over better GPU. Actually x1600 is not that bad. You dont have to play games on it.

Noetbooks don't have to compromise. If you want a blueray reading, geforce go 7950gtx having notebook Dell (http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/cto_xpsnb_m1710?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs) is happy to ablige. Apple doesn't cater to videogame players. Never has, and probably never will.

[MArcoetpolo]

Ohhh yess a x1800 would be soooo great! and the consumption between x1600 and x1800 are not so different!
Moreover , I think that apple should realy improve theirs graphics , because , today , those damned graphics are the last reason not to have a mac!
Realy , with intel chips , parralels or boot camp , you can enjoy all the advantages of windows and mac!
Exepted the graphics...

I don't ask for an Sli of 8800GTx on the MBP lol , but just a solid Graphic hardware , for games , but also for others vid apps...

[Mydel]

Well, not all of us can use a desktop. Yeah, notebooks make compromises, but that dosen't mean they have to use a low-end GPU. Windows notebooks have been using Geforce 7800/7900 chips for over a year, and the mid range 7600 would be a decent upgrade too. I'm disapointed they didn't at least throw something better like that into the 17" model.

true they have it but in real life 7900 is about 10% better than x1600 so its not much. And ATI haven;t even announce anything that would possibly fit in MBP yet. So I guess 1600 is decent choice for now.

[Mydel]

Noetbooks don't have to compromise. If you want a blueray reading, geforce go 7950gtx having notebook Dell (http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/cto_xpsnb_m1710?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs) is happy to ablige. Apple doesn't cater to videogame players. Never has, and probably never will.

So why dont you get a dell:cool: :D

[MArcoetpolo]

Humm , I do not exactly agree when you say me that the perf between X1600 and 7900 are the same!

3dmark06 for X1600 : 1800 points
7900 Gs(also for laptops) 3800 points!

The difference is Huge!

Anyway , I think , that apple can win a lot with consteting other laptops designed for gaming!

Indeed with adopting Intel and Tiger , apple came from 7 million users to 26 milion , it's quite a sign..

[droz]

i don't get why everyone thinks the MBP is overdue for an update. I agree it would be nice, but realistically, Apple doesn't need to update the MBP right now since it's selling faster than they can make them. The standard MB's and the mac mini (and maybe iMac?) will likely be the target here since the santarosa's major contribution is the improved ONBOARD graphics set which is what really hinders both the MB and the mini right now.

[diamond.g]

So why dont you get a dell:cool: :D

I actually switched from a gateway to the macbook. I used to be a graphics card whore, but that has gotten too expensive. That and I have a 360 to play games on. I am perfectly content with my macbook.


I was just saying, the market Apple goes after doesn't include computer game players. Not sure how anyone could argue otherwise.

Although computer game players are willing to part with a grip of change for the latest kit... Apple could make a killing if they ever did target them.

[MacSA]

I'm really not optimistic about seeing any new hardware featuring this new chip anytime soon...If Apple are willing to delay their new operating system to make way for the iPhone, I doubt they'd think twice about delaying hardware.

[Mydel]

I was just saying, the market Apple goes after doesn't include computer game players. Not sure how anyone could argue otherwise.
.
I dont. You right! But I think they do it on purpose. In my mind if you wanna play games get a desktop or one of the consoles if you prefer. Its not that expensive. If someone can afford MBP Im sure buying 360, PS3 or Wii will NOT make a significant dent in his budget. All Im trying to say that I love apple form factor and card alsi is not all that bad. So I prefer sacrafice a little of GPU and have pleasure looking on my computer. I own a blac macbook and to tell you the truth I dont think that integrated GPU is bad. Granted I dont play games on it. But I also have MBP (work) and dont see gigantic difference (as long as Im not in illustrator or photoshop).

[MArcoetpolo]

That's the point!
If there are better graphics it would be better for softwares , AND gamings :d

[Wolfpup]

true they have it but in real life 7900 is about 10% better than x1600 so its not much. And ATI haven;t even announce anything that would possibly fit in MBP yet. So I guess 1600 is decent choice for now.

WHAAAAAT!?! :eek: No, they're not even in the same league. You're talking about a part that has 4 ROPS versus one with 20. One that was low end when it was introduced, and one that was high end (now mid-range, but still).

Humm , I do not exactly agree when you say me that the perf between X1600 and 7900 are the same!

3dmark06 for X1600 : 1800 points
7900 Gs(also for laptops) 3800 points!

The difference is Huge!

It's bigger than that in real games (versus donut marks). They're not remotely in the same league.

Anyway , I think , that apple can win a lot with consteting other laptops designed for gaming!

Indeed with adopting Intel and Tiger , apple came from 7 million users to 26 milion , it's quite a sign..

Yeah, and the thing is too-here at my university I notice a LOT of people who are buying Macbooks and combining that with a Windows PC kept around for gaming. If Apple had a good GPU in the Macbook Pro, at least some of those people would instead give that money to Apple (in the form of the price difference between those two systems).

And of course some people would buy the system period, versus going with a Dell.

[MacGuffin]

i don't get why everyone thinks the MBP is overdue for an update. I agree it would be nice, but realistically, Apple doesn't need to update the MBP right now since it's selling faster than they can make them.

The whole point of going Intel was keeping up with the Joneses, who happen to be Dell, Sony, et al. They will all have Santa Rosa models out of the gate.

Following this strategy, Apple will update the laptop line nearly as swiftly as the Wintel builders do.

What could hinder roll out is Leopard. We don't know how seriously broken it remains. If Leopard isn't too far off, so might be brand new MBPs. Apple would hold off a bit on the reasonable assumption that all the buzz from a major OS release can help it sell more hardware. But if Leopard is a mess and keeps slipping, the MBPs will be out much sooner, and I'll be right there to buy one, Leopard or no Leopard.

[agentmouthwash]

i don't get why everyone thinks the MBP is overdue for an update. I agree it would be nice, but realistically, Apple doesn't need to update the MBP right now since it's selling faster than they can make them. The standard MB's and the mac mini (and maybe iMac?) will likely be the target here since the santarosa's major contribution is the improved ONBOARD graphics set which is what really hinders both the MB and the mini right now.


It's not that the current MBP is overdue for an update, it's the fact that these new chips are coming out and Apple needs to stay current with the likes of Dell and other PC companies, or they will lose sales. Santa Rosa offers more than animproved onboard graphics set. I am excited for the faster bus, more memory, better battery life and NAND technology which will improve application start up time. Besides, Apple isn't going to give the mini or MB Santa Rosa before the MBP. Who would by a MBP then when the MB will have a better chip at 1/2 the price.

[CrimsonScythe]

It'll probably be 6 or 7GB.

You need some space for memory mapped IO. That's why the current systems are 3GB RAM even though the chipset supports 4GB.


This would be correct if the bus was increased from 32 bits to 33 bits. Since the address space has been extended to 64 bits, they could still address about 16 exabytes after subtracting a good chunk to I/O etc. 16 exabytes should be enough for running both Photoshop and Final Cut Studio, but it might be hard to make room in the MBP though...

[Eidorian]

And NoteBook Review (http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3657) has more release information from IBM/Lenovo.

[Wie Gehts]

Hi. I'm a sherpa guide. Should I wait for SR? I play asteroids. I'm also putting together a cd of music similar to 'Deep Forest' but using abominable snowman sounds rather than pygmie sounds. Will the batteries work at 20 below?

[lazyrighteye]

Anyone know...

When Intel announces a new chip, how long have companies like Apple, Dell, etc. been testing said chip on their hardware? With their OSes?
Do those companies' results effect launch dates of Intel's products? Meaning, if there are some issues with how the chip performs in (say) Vista but not OSX (or on varying hardware configs), would Intel delay a launch until all parties are happy or do they just do their own thing independent of others?

I would imagine that Apple has had Leopard running on SR (and the next couple of upcoming chips) in their labs. Just as I would also imagine Intel has the latest (even future Apple, Dell, etc.) product in their labs as well. Are these far fetched assumptions?

I'm just trying to gain an understanding of how close Intel and (in this case) Apple work together and how those relationships effect product cycles, release dates, etc. It appears the Intel switch was a smart move. But it makes it harder, for a random user like me, to connect all the dots. Was a bit easier to see how PPC dates would effect Mac dates, and vice versa. Not so much under Intel.

When I think of finally upgrading the family's G4/500 and iBook/500 (both of which are so incredibly long in the tooth, to the point of useless), I wonder if getting a Santa Rosa Mac, pre-Leopard, would be a mistake in terms of processor/OS compatibility & performance when I do eventually upgrade to Leopard?

[Episteme]

This would be correct if the bus was increased from 32 bits to 33 bits. Since the address space has been extended to 64 bits, they could still address about 16 exabytes after subtracting a good chunk to I/O etc. 16 exabytes should be enough for running both Photoshop and Final Cut Studio, but it might be hard to make room in the MBP though...

This would be correct if the bus size was all that mattered, and if the bus size was increased from 32 bits to 64bits. Since the address space on the processor was extended sometime last year (at C2D introduction) to something like 40 bits (physical, ie RAM lines) and 48 bits (virtual, ie MMU support), the current systems should still be able to address 512 gigabytes with the same left over for IO.

Of course, this doesn't matter because it doesn't matter a damn on current Intel systems what the CPU can address if the northbridge (containing the memory controller) doesn't support it.

The current mobile platform (napa) uses a controller that can address 4GB. Hence current mobiles can have 3GB physical RAM and the other 1GB is used for IO.

The northbridge used in the Santa Rosa platform however supports an 8GB address space. Hence SR-based systems will likey support 6-7GB of physical RAM maximum.

So, 6-7GB. Not 16 exabytes.

[Wolfpup]

Anyone know...

When Intel announces a new chip, how long have companies like Apple, Dell, etc. been testing said chip on their hardware? With their OSes?
Do those companies' results effect launch dates of Intel's products? Meaning, if there are some issues with how the chip performs in (say) Vista but not OSX (or on varying hardware configs), would Intel delay a launch until all parties are happy or do they just do their own thing independent of others?

I would imagine that Apple has had Leopard running on SR (and the next couple of upcoming chips) in their labs. Just as I would also imagine Intel has the latest (even future Apple, Dell, etc.) product in their labs as well. Are these far fetched assumptions?

I'm just trying to gain an understanding of how close Intel and (in this case) Apple work together and how those relationships effect product cycles, release dates, etc. It appears the Intel switch was a smart move. But it makes it harder, for a random user like me, to connect all the dots. Was a bit easier to see how PPC dates would effect Mac dates, and vice versa. Not so much under Intel.

When I think of finally upgrading the family's G4/500 and iBook/500 (both of which are so incredibly long in the tooth, to the point of useless), I wonder if getting a Santa Rosa Mac, pre-Leopard, would be a mistake in terms of processor/OS compatibility & performance when I do eventually upgrade to Leopard?

I wouldn't worry about Leopard compatibility. It'll work fine. Heck, 10.3 and 10.4 are supposed to run better on G3 systems than 10.2 and below do!

Most likely Apple would have had prerelease hardware for some time now, and if they have a new design, they'd have been working on that prior to getting the new chip. It's possible they're ramping up production on new stuff right now, as they get shipped the new chips from Intel.

I am SO glad they switched! It was just silly, when Windows notebooks were getting ever faster Pentium M chips...and Apple still had the G4.

[tristan]

When Intel announces a new chip, how long have companies like Apple, Dell, etc. been testing said chip on their hardware? With their OSes?


I heard that Intel was already showing off the Penryn last week in Beijing. I bet their big customers already have a test platform.

[Eidorian]

When Intel announces a new chip, how long have companies like Apple, Dell, etc. been testing said chip on their hardware? With their OSes?Engineering samples are out for months before release. I remember Core 2 benchmarks and samples showing up 4-6 months before release.

[CrimsonScythe]

This would be correct if the bus size was all that mattered, and if the bus size was increased from 32 bits to 64bits. Since the address space on the processor was extended sometime last year (at C2D introduction) to something like 40 bits (physical, ie RAM lines) and 48 bits (virtual, ie MMU support), the current systems should still be able to address 512 gigabytes with the same left over for IO.

Of course, this doesn't matter because it doesn't matter a damn on current Intel systems what the CPU can address if the northbridge (containing the memory controller) doesn't support it.

The current mobile platform (napa) uses a controller that can address 4GB. Hence current mobiles can have 3GB physical RAM and the other 1GB is used for IO.

The northbridge used in the Santa Rosa platform however supports an 8GB address space. Hence SR-based systems will likey support 6-7GB of physical RAM maximum.

So, 6-7GB. Not 16 exabytes.

This was so convincing that I had to check it up. You're closer to the truth than I was, but still wrong. The 965 chipset has 36 bits addressing space, allowing the CPU to address 64GB of "memory", with addressing set aside for 8GB of DRAM memory. So even if we "waste" more on non-RAM addressing than before, we will still be able to use the full 8GB. Not that I'd expect any notebook to support more than 4GB (or 2 memory banks), though. 4GB should be adequate for me for the next 3 years, so I'm fine with that.

[smythey]

Hi. I'm a sherpa guide. Should I wait for SR? I play asteroids. I'm also putting together a cd of music similar to 'Deep Forest' but using abominable snowman sounds rather than pygmie sounds. Will the batteries work at 20 below?

Deliciously random.... Possible that the Mighty Boosh has infiltrated us?

[Daveway]

16 exabytes?

Yummy:D

Maybe in 10 years...

[Maccus Aurelius]

Its been a few years since the Powerbooks had a redesign. Perhaps this is coming soon, especially since the PPC -> Intel transition is over, in terms of hardware?

The one thing I'm really hoping for is a redesign in the macbook pro that allows one to easily slide a new drive in and out like the macbook currently does. Overall, I really love the powerbook/macbook pro design. There aren't many things that really need to be changed. The whole package is pretty sublime. If I were to change anything, I'd probably just change the design of the keyboard to be more like the macbook, and just have the backlight remain.

[kalii]

i don't get why everyone thinks the MBP is overdue for an update. I agree it would be nice, but realistically, Apple doesn't need to update the MBP right now since it's selling faster than they can make them. The standard MB's and the mac mini (and maybe iMac?) will likely be the target here since the santarosa's major contribution is the improved ONBOARD graphics set which is what really hinders both the MB and the mini right now.

We have a realist on the boards. :) That is the most correct stament made today.

[Squonk]

i don't get why everyone thinks the MBP is overdue for an update. I agree it would be nice, but realistically, Apple doesn't need to update the MBP right now since it's selling faster than they can make them. The standard MB's and the mac mini (and maybe iMac?) will likely be the target here since the santarosa's major contribution is the improved ONBOARD graphics set which is what really hinders both the MB and the mini right now.

I doubt that Apple would release a SR MB before a MBP. So, the "consumer" laptop would have a faster FSB than the "pro" model? Not likely.

I do agree that the new graphics ship for the MB is going to be a huge improvement over the GMA950. But Apple will not do this at the expense of their flagship laptop.

[Wolfpup]

The one thing I'm really hoping for is a redesign in the macbook pro that allows one to easily slide a new drive in and out like the macbook currently does.

Yep. That's what I keep saying. If it had that one feature, I'd probably already own the current model. If I end up getting a Macbook instead, literally the ONLY reason would be the non-user replaceable hard drive.

Overall, I really love the powerbook/macbook pro design. There aren't many things that really need to be changed. The whole package is pretty sublime. If I were to change anything, I'd probably just change the design of the keyboard to be more like the macbook, and just have the backlight remain.

Ya lost me there :D I've only touched the Macbook once, but I'm assuming based on playing with Sony laptops with similar keys that I'd HATE that flat design. I mean there's a reason almost every keyboard on Earth has a similar design!

My understanding is the Macbook Pro has a more normal keyboard that's one of the best on a laptop, and can actually be used for heavy typing.

But geez...when I think about it, I may go with a Macbook over a Pro, and here's how this breaks down:

Macbook Pro advantages:
-larger screen
-better GPU
-faster CPU
-regular DVI port
-better keyboard

Macbook advantages:
-user replaceable hard drive.

ONE advantage in my eyes, and that's enough to out weigh all those other advantages :(

[King Crimson]

Contrary to what many people are saying in these forums, Apple (and most other SW/HW companies), don't change a lot of software and hardware at the same time. So, there will be new hardware coming out that run Tiger. When Leopard comes out there will be no new hardware (at that time). Hardware will again be released at MWSF next January. It is a nightmare to deal with both new hardware and software at the sametime.

Since Apple doesn't have to deal with such a variety of hardware components like Micro$oft, Apple should be ready to handle that ...

cheers,

Andreas

[Glenny2lappies]

Macbook Pro advantages:
-larger screen
-better GPU
-faster CPU
-regular DVI port
-better keyboard

Macbook advantages:
-user replaceable hard drive.

There's a few other benefits...
- smaller
- cheaper
- excellent value for money (e.g. in comparison with it's competition)
- it looks great in black
- uses a smaller power supply

These are important decisions. Not everyone needs a big beastie as some of us lug these things around daily. And seats in coach (economy) are getting well small.

Nobody's mentioned a replacement for the 12" PowerBook that's long overdue. I do wish they'd implement a low power, long battery life, small MacBook Pro. It's definitely missing in the product line and would be a great candidate for the TurboRobsonInjection cache that hopefully will result in the hard disc spinning less, and LED backlights resulting in lower power drain.

Just a thought.

[Val-kyrie]

Those are desktop chips... highest frequency notebook chip is still the 2.33ghz Core 2 Duo.

You can see the intel lineup and price list here:
http://media.corporate-ir.net/media_files/irol/10/101302/Apr_22_07_1ku_Price_r3.pdf

Dueling links baby... I'm on fuego...


Those are the E-series (desktop). The notebook C2Ds are the T-series.

Sorry, I glanced at the article only very briefly this morning. You are right. But perhaps this will still be good news for iMacs if they get a new enclosure.

[Erasmus]

Umm,

I believe the new mobile SR CPUs do not top out at 2.33. They top out at 2.4GHz, with 2.6 coming soon, and 2.8 at the end of the year.

[Wie Gehts]

How cum Sony can put an express34 slot in a $1000 laptop and Apple can't?

Message to SJ, entrepreneur and all around bon vivant: put a e34 slot in the macbook.

[Wolfpup]

There's a few other benefits...
- smaller
- cheaper
- excellent value for money (e.g. in comparison with it's competition)
- it looks great in black
- uses a smaller power supply

These are important decisions. Not everyone needs a big beastie as some of us lug these things around daily. And seats in coach (economy) are getting well small.

Well, yeah, I mean I know those are potential benefits, but not for me. Well the price is of course (and I really don't make much), but the size is mostly a negative for me. I plan on carrying my laptop to work and back every day (I mean just to and from my car), and don't see any real difference between using a 13" and a 17" system in terms of size or weight.

Also I have to dispute the Macbook being a great deal. It's not BAD, and it was one of the better deals Apple's ever done when it launched, but on the Windows side you can get 17" notebooks for cheaper, and definitely get higher end hardware for that price...though I think Apple has some better quality in many respects (like I guess the audio doesn't "hiss" like it does on many Windows notebooks-and that's sure worth something!)

Nobody's mentioned a replacement for the 12" PowerBook that's long overdue. I do wish they'd implement a low power, long battery life, small MacBook Pro. It's definitely missing in the product line and would be a great candidate for the TurboRobsonInjection cache that hopefully will result in the hard disc spinning less, and LED backlights resulting in lower power drain.

It's possible that's really coming, going by all those rumors...but I don't understand why anyone cares. I mean dosen't the Macbook fill that role just fine? It's already 13", supports an external monitor, and has a fast CPU. I don't know what else they could put in a 12", aside from making it smaller yet and POSSIBLY throwing in a slightly better GPU.

I just don't understand the need. But then again, I'm someone who doesn't understand what the big deal of carrying a 17" laptop is, so...

[Val-kyrie]

And NoteBook Review (http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3657) has more release information from IBM/Lenovo.

According to your link, "the rollout [of Santa Rosa notebooks for IBM/Lenovo] will be gradually over a couple of months for various configurations to be available;" however, one configuration will be available in May. If this lag spreads across the OEM industry, then I doubt we will see SR based Apple laptops anytime too soon. In fact, as I previously posted, if Leopard depends on SR for the Intel Turbo Memory, then Apple might skip this initial SR release and jump to Penryn if indeed Intel thinks Penryn will be ramped for production by the end of the year, as they have stated. However, as others have pointed out, I think it is still more likely Apple will release SR based mac mini, MB and MBP, if not only because of the integrated gfx boost for the first two and in order to maintain the proper hierarchy for the MBP.

[AidenShaw]

However, the first Intel Macs were released at MWSF06 the day after Intel announced the original Core Duo (Yonah) chip.

http://www.cnet.com/4520-6022_1-6410042-1.html

"Intel debuts Core Duo: dual-core processors come to laptops

By Justin Jaffe
Thursday, January 5, 2006

In a keynote speech today by CEO Paul Otellini at CES in Las Vegas, Intel officially unveiled its new Centrino Duo Mobile Technology. The centerpiece of the Duo Mobile chipset, previously code-named Napa, is Intel's Core Duo chip, which places two mobile processing cores on one chip. "


http://www.apple.com/hotnews/articles/2006/01/mwsf/

"Macworld Keynote
Apple CEO Steve Jobs delivered a keynote presentation on Tuesday, January 10, at 9 a.m. PST, introducing the latest products from Apple, including the new iMac and MacBook Pro computers built with the Intel Core Duo chip..."

It was the following week, not the next day.

[Episteme]

This was so convincing that I had to check it up. You're closer to the truth than I was, but still wrong. The 965 chipset has 36 bits addressing space, allowing the CPU to address 64GB of "memory", with addressing set aside for 8GB of DRAM memory. So even if we "waste" more on non-RAM addressing than before, we will still be able to use the full 8GB. Not that I'd expect any notebook to support more than 4GB (or 2 memory banks), though. 4GB should be adequate for me for the next 3 years, so I'm fine with that.

Doh.

Mea Culpa on the IO range, I'd assumed it was part of the 8GB that was addressable. That's what I get for just skimming the spec-sheet.

Still, I was several orders of magnitude closer ;)

I assume the reason for RAM being restricted to 8GB is number of lines on the RAM controller.

There's also one possible, albeit temporary, proviso -- does Tiger use PAE mode? It still runs in 32bit mode, so without PAE, nothing changes regardless of what the chipset supports. With PAE, you might be able to work around the addressing limits somewhat. AFAIK the reason that can't be done on current machines (945-based) is that the 945 ICH/MCH doesn't support anything but a single flat 32bit address space.

I assume Leopard will remove any such issues tho'.

[Episteme]

Umm,

I believe the new mobile SR CPUs do not top out at 2.33. They top out at 2.4GHz, with 2.6 coming soon, and 2.8 at the end of the year.

2.6/2.8GHz parts are part of the "Extreme" range tho', with equally "extreme" pricing. I have doubts we'll see one in a Mac before Penryn. Post Penryn release, I'd expect at the very least the 2.6GHz chip to move into the "performance mainstream" segment.

[Episteme]

How cum Sony can put an express34 slot in a $1000 laptop and Apple can't?

Message to SJ, entrepreneur and all around bon vivant: put a e34 slot in the macbook.

Apple wants you to buy an MBP, not an MB.

[Episteme]

According to your link, "the rollout [of Santa Rosa notebooks for IBM/Lenovo] will be gradually over a couple of months for various configurations to be available;" however, one configuration will be available in May. If this lag spreads across the OEM industry, then I doubt we will see SR based Apple laptops anytime too soon. In fact, as I previously posted, if Leopard depends on SR for the Intel Turbo Memory, then Apple might skip this initial SR release and jump to Penryn if indeed Intel thinks Penryn will be ramped for production by the end of the year, as they have stated. However, as others have pointed out, I think it is still more likely Apple will release SR based mac mini, MB and MBP, if not only because of the integrated gfx boost for the first two and in order to maintain the proper hierarchy for the MBP.

Intel Turbo Memory, (aka Robson) is an optional part of the SR platform. Apple can launch a notebook without it now and one with it come 2008. They'll probably upset a bunch of people if they do, but they'll upset a bunch of people no matter what they do so... :)

I also think Apple will want to maintain "bulletpoint parity" with the PC market.

[Wie Gehts]

Apple wants you to buy an MBP, not an MB.


Well put me in a prom dress and call me norman. MBP too much money.
How about 2 seperate fw busses in a MB then?

[Episteme]

Well put me in a prom dress and call me norman. MBP too much money.
How about 2 seperate fw busses in a MB then?

Guten Tag, Norman. Nice dress you've got there. :)

I respectfully refer you to my previous answer...

[Glenny2lappies]

I plan on carrying my laptop to work and back every day (I mean just to and from my car), and don't see any real difference between using a 13" and a 17" system in terms of size or weight.

I guess it's where it's used and what it's used for. More business (OK, we all know the getamac ads:-) oriented users will often rate small size as more important than large screen.

Where this is really important is if you're commuting any distance by public transport. It's much nicer to have a small machine than a big one - certainly the 17" is too big for use on a train. When it comes to planes, then bigger is definitely not better. Most coach seats are barely big enough to fit a person, let alone a lappie. The 15.4" screen just won't fit whereas the 12" PowerBook was just perfect as it fitted into the 'hole' left by the tray in the seat in front. And it's got a better battery life than the MBP.

I'm quite surprised that they've not filled the gap left by the PowerBook 12". OK, they've got the numbers, but from my experience I saw a lot of the 12" machines - far more of the PowerBook than the iBook. But then again, I might just move in those kind of circles?!

But then again, I guess that's what the BlackBook's for. I just wish it had an option for a half-decent graphics card (and full-size DVI, and backlit keyboard, and matt screen...).

[Wolfpup]

Umm,

I believe the new mobile SR CPUs do not top out at 2.33. They top out at 2.4GHz, with 2.6 coming soon, and 2.8 at the end of the year.

The current chips top out at 2.33GHz. 2.4 is what's coming with this update. (At least officially. Dell sells one model with an optional factory overclocked 2.66GHz Core 2...and I have a feeling it's semi-official with Intel.)

[tristan]

I believe the new mobile SR CPUs do not top out at 2.33. They top out at 2.4GHz, with 2.6 coming soon, and 2.8 at the end of the year.

2.4ghz? That's only a 3% increase from today's high-end. I dunno... Intel just did a price drop in April and the top mobile CPU was 2.33ghz and it cost almost $700. They usually do price drops every 3 months, so I would imagine that the next batch of CPUs aren't coming out until June or July, and I guess we could see a 2.66ghz then. Is that what you mean?

Also, does anyone have any info on the Robson cache aka Turbo memory? Is it a big deal or just a gimmick? Why not just put more RAM in the computer to start with?

If it's just about fast boot-up time and you want to save the post-boot up memory state, you can save that to the first track of the hard drive and just load it all at once - assuming the starting config doesn't change.

[Wolfpup]

2.4ghz? That's only a 3% increase from today's high-end. I dunno... Intel just did a price drop in April and the top mobile CPU was 2.33ghz and it cost almost $700. They usually do price drops every 3 months, so I would imagine that the next batch of CPUs aren't coming out until June or July, and I guess we could see a 2.66ghz then. Is that what you mean?

Also, does anyone have any info on the Robson cache aka Turbo memory? Is it a big deal or just a gimmick? Why not just put more RAM in the computer to start with?

If it's just about fast boot-up time and you want to save the post-boot up memory state, you can save that to the first track of the hard drive and just load it all at once - assuming the starting config doesn't change.

Presumably it'll work as well as Vista's support of USB flash drives does-or probably better, since it should be a bit faster. In tests (in Vista) it did make a difference, although the difference was far more dramatic in systems that were RAM starved than those equipped with 2GB of RAM already.

[Episteme]

2.4ghz? That's only a 3% increase from today's high-end. I dunno... Intel just did a price drop in April and the top mobile CPU was 2.33ghz and it cost almost $700. They usually do price drops every 3 months, so I would imagine that the next batch of CPUs aren't coming out until June or July, and I guess we could see a 2.66ghz then. Is that what you mean?

Not 2.66, 2.6Ghz. The new systems use an 800MHz FSB (well, 200MHz quad pumped really), so it'll be a 3.25 multiplier. That's the reason for the change from 2.33GHz to 2.4GHz.

I had another look at the roadmap and I just noticed there's a non-extreme 2.6GHz part (T7800) set for 4Q07. The "Extreme" part (X7800) is 3Q07.

When the T7800 appears, it seems likely Intel will follow SOP and move the prices of all other processors down a notch.

Also, does anyone have any info on the Robson cache aka Turbo memory? Is it a big deal or just a gimmick? Why not just put more RAM in the computer to start with?

If it's just about fast boot-up time and you want to save the post-boot up memory state, you can save that to the first track of the hard drive and just load it all at once - assuming the starting config doesn't change.

Vista uses "ReadyBoost" which basically caches prefetch info. HDs are generally faster for sustained xfer but by the time you add the latency for seek times etc., flash will often beat it for a smaller xfer.

Whether this will be put to a similar use on the MBP though, I've no idea. We don't even know IF a putative SR-based notebook would include it.

The reason for using a Flash-based caching solution over RAM is it's significantly cheaper than RAM in terms of per-gigabyte. Of course, it's also less useful.

[Wie Gehts]

Guten Tag, Norman. Nice dress you've got there. :)

I respectfully refer you to my previous answer...

Ich möchte fünfzehn blumenkohl Fleischerei

How about a MB being able to use a memory stick shoved into a usb port to boot from? Hows about a single fw port being able to actually do what its spec claims (ie, daisychaining more than one device) so I can hook up both a fw audio interface and recording drive together without having to spend over 2g's for 2 fw ports or/and e34 slot?

:) :D

[Episteme]

Ich möchte fünfzehn blumenkohl Fleischerei

How about a MB being able to use a memory stick shoved into a usb port to boot from? Hows about a single fw port being able to actually do what its spec claims (ie, daisychaining more than one device) so I can hook up both a fw audio interface and recording drive together without having to spend over 2g's for 2 fw ports or/and e34 slot?

:) :D

LOL

You'd like fifteen cauliflower .. something? Sorry, my high school German's failed me on this one... :)

As for the rest -- blame Apple ;)

[tristan]

Not 2.66, 2.6Ghz. The new systems use an 800MHz FSB (well, 200MHz quad pumped really), so it'll be a 3.25 multiplier. That's the reason for the change from 2.33GHz to 2.4GHz.


Ahhh... I understand now. The 800mhz multiplier. The 2.6ghz comes out in the summer, the 2.8 ghz in the fall, and then Penryn picks up at the 3.0 ghz range. That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

Steve Jobs, you think you're so smart but I've got you all figured out. Your switch to Intel and their new policy on public disclosure has made it so I can predict your every move. How the mighty have fallen... :D

[Evangelion]

If someone can afford MBP Im sure buying 360, PS3 or Wii will NOT make a significant dent in his budget.

Why is it so difficult for some people to understand that a console might not be an alternative? I like to play games on occasion. And consoles absolutely suck for the type of games I like to play, or they are not available at all on the console.

This "if you want to play games, get a console!"-argument is getting really old, really fast. It's more or less same as "if you want to play games, get a deck of cards!". Yes, you can play games on a console. But console-gaming is not necessarily an alternative to computer-gaming.

[Erasmus]

Why is it so difficult for some people to understand that a console might not be an alternative? I like to play games on occasion. And consoles absolutely suck for the type of games I like to play, or they are not available at all on the console.

This "if you want to play games, get a console!"-argument is getting really old, really fast. It's more or less same as "if you want to play games, get a deck of cards!". Yes, you can play games on a console. But console-gaming is not necessarily an alternative to computer-gaming.

Agreed.

You can't run SolidWorks or Matlab on a console. They will run far better on a MBP with a decent GPU, with gaming on the side, than on a MB.

[MArcoetpolo]

Yess erasmus lol , i love the kind of new MBP you want!

After considering the CPU , let's try to imagine which GPU could be present in the next Macs!!

I think( and like) the X1800 or even the X1900 for ATI
And Maybe if they switch to Nvidia a 7900!!
So guys? (and girls ^^)

[iamsleepy]

Yess erasmus lol , i love the kind of new MBP you want!

After considering the CPU , let's try to imagine which GPU could be present in the next Macs!!

I think( and like) the X1800 or even the X1900 for ATI
And Maybe if they switch to Nvidia a 7900!!
So guys? (and girls ^^)

Why not X2600? lol

[Episteme]

Ahhh... I understand now. The 800mhz multiplier. The 2.6ghz comes out in the summer, the 2.8 ghz in the fall, and then Penryn picks up at the 3.0 ghz range. That makes sense. Thanks for the clarification.

Steve Jobs, you think you're so smart but I've got you all figured out. Your switch to Intel and their new policy on public disclosure has made it so I can predict your every move. How the mighty have fallen... :D

The 2.6GHz debuts as an "extreme" part (X7800) in 07Q3, then a "regular" version arrives in 07Q4 (T7800), when the 2.8GHz "extreme" (X7900) arrives. I doubt we'll see those parts in the MacBook while they're in their "extreme" phase -- the Mac usually uses the ~$530 part and they'll be $795 on launch.

[Episteme]

Yess erasmus lol , i love the kind of new MBP you want!

After considering the CPU , let's try to imagine which GPU could be present in the next Macs!!

I think( and like) the X1800 or even the X1900 for ATI
And Maybe if they switch to Nvidia a 7900!!
So guys? (and girls ^^)

Those all draw too much power to be viable in the MBP casing.

[MArcoetpolo]

for the X2600 , i can't find much information about this GPU ,
is this GPU already installed on laptops?!

[Erasmus]

Yess erasmus lol , i love the kind of new MBP you want!

After considering the CPU , let's try to imagine which GPU could be present in the next Macs!!

I think( and like) the X1800 or even the X1900 for ATI
And Maybe if they switch to Nvidia a 7900!!
So guys? (and girls ^^)

Hooray! I have a disciple!

But I don't understand why people want a fast GPU that uses way too much power, and uses old technology??? I'd prefer a HD2600 to a X1900 any day. And the HD2600 will probably be faster.

And with the LED/LCD screen and low power Turbo Cache, Apple can splurge a bit in power and stick in an awesome GPU!

Then again, last time I had disciples, I was disappointed. I think it was the Merom MBP update, when I was hoping for an X1800 : (



The HD2600 (Not X2600, which has had a name change) has not been officially announced yet. Apparrently people under NDAs have been briefed on it, (like yesterday) for its official release a week or two into May.

[AidenShaw]

How about a MB being able to use a memory stick shoved into a usb port to boot from?

http://www.everythingusb.com/innodisk_readyboost_2gb_12288.html

http://www.everythingusb.com/images/list/innodiskreadyboost.jpg

:)

[diamond.g]

Those all draw too much power to be viable in the MBP casing.
Well that would be true if you ran them full tilt. But since Apple doesn't run the X1600 full tilt what makes you think they would run the others full tilt? That and with the added PS/VS/ROPS you probably dont even have to run full tilt to get any benefit.

for the X2600 , i can't find much information about this GPU ,
is this GPU already installed on laptops?!
The X2600 (HD2600) is also a desktop part. You guys should drop by Beyond3d.com they usually have all the good info on the new GPU's (Most of it uber technical though).

[Wie Gehts]

http://www.everythingusb.com/innodisk_readyboost_2gb_12288.html

http://www.everythingusb.com/images/list/innodiskreadyboost.jpg

:)

Groovy. So whats the problem? When you boot a computer and start an application it gets loaded into the computers memory ram and then runs from that, right?
All the HD drive does is to store the OS and applications prior to use. So whats the big deal about why not Apple can't store OS and apps on a memory stick and boot from that?


Episteme, my german stopped at high school too. Was ist los and In der bibliotek is about it. For the rest theres online phrase dictionaries. ;)

[roland.g]

I can't wait for SR. I just hope that Apple releases some products in May-July that make the wait worth it.

Since we won't see a midrange tower, here's to hoping there's a 24" iMac Pro.

2.xx (highest option available)
2GB RAM (minimum)
500GB HDD
7600GT (unless a better card is an option)
Anodized Aluminum to match Mac Pro and ACDs

Configuration available in stores so it doesn't have to be CTO'd.

[AidenShaw]

Groovy. So whats the problem? When you boot a computer and start an application it gets loaded into the computers memory ram and then runs from that, right?

Not really. Pieces get loaded as they are needed, rather than filling RAM with the entire OS or application. Those Photoshop filters sit on the disk until you run them.

In addition, the virtual memory manager brings the pages of the apps in as they are referenced - using a filter doesn't do a monolithic load of the filter, but selectively brings in the code according to the code paths taken during that run.

In addition, if memory runs low and the virtual memory manager decides to remove pages from memory - it will realize that the read-only code pages are still in the application file. There's no need to write those to the virtual memory file, they can be re-read from the application file if needed again.

In other words, there's constant access to OS and application executable files.


All the HD drive does is to store the OS and applications prior to use.

Often, an application also has data to be read and written ;).


So whats the big deal about why not Apple can't store OS and apps on a memory stick and boot from that?

As long as it can read and write to the USB drive as a normal disk, it can.

Note, however, that Robson Technology is used as a large non-volatile cache - not as a solid state disk. The speedup comes from the fact that the cache does not have a moving head - the access time for blocks in cache is much faster than for blocks on the disk if the disk head has to move. The disk, however, is faster for large reads and writes. A totally flash-based system would often be slower than a hard disk system.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robson_flash_memory
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReadyBoost
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ReadyDrive

[Wie Gehts]

Thanks Aidenshaw

[chambers7]

Macbooks need to be updated sooner than late summer! :mad: I'm hoping that they're coming out around late may... (like the report says). Is there a reason why Macbooks wouldn't have the new Santa Rosa by then?

Go :apple: !

[Zadillo]

I really don't get all these posts that seem to be claiming Apple has been dropping the ball by having an X1600 in the 15" MBP, and that it s hould have an X1800 or GeForce 7900GS.

This is ridiculous.... NO-ONE makes a 15" laptop (of any size, much less a 1" thick one) with an X1800 or GeForce 7900GS. The most powerful 15" laptop currently available is the Asus G1, with the GeForce 7700.... and that is also a behemoth of 15" laptop that is very thick and almost 7 pounds, and still runs very hot.

And the GeForce 7700 isn't THAT much more powerful than an X1600 or GeForce 7600.

Apple can only do so much with what hardware is available. But this idea that Apple is so behind the times when there aren't really that many more powerful 15" notebooks out there doesn't seem right to me.

To criticize Apple for not doing the impossible (sticking a GeForce 7900GS in a 15" screen 1" thick laptop) seems especially unfair.

If you want a more powerful GPU, wait for the upcoming DirectX 10 mobile GPU's. The GeForce 8600 Go (which will be available in 15" notebooks) is said to be on par, performance wise, with the 7900GS. Presumably there should be similar performance gains in ATI's equivalent chip.

Presumably Apple will be using one of these new parts to offer the same performance increases.

-Zadillo

[thedudeAbides]

i haven't seen a 15" notebook with a better graphics card, but there is a 17" alienware with dual 512 mb 7900 gs.

http://www.alienware.com/product_detail_pages/Aurora_m9700/aurora-m_specs.aspx?SysCode=PC-LT-AURORA-M-9700&SubCode=SKU-DEFAULT#pdp-nav

But it is 1.8" thick

[MIDI_EVIL]

Well i'm waiting for Nehalem...

:D

Rich.

[flopticalcube]

Macbooks need to be updated sooner than late summer! :mad: I'm hoping that they're coming out around late may... (like the report says). Is there a reason why Macbooks wouldn't have the new Santa Rosa by then?

Go :apple: !

The iMacs and minis are even more overdue. No reason why SR should not be in a new Mac within a few weeks of May 8. Apple must be a 1st tier customer of Intel and have access to all of its tech fairly early in the development cycle.

And now for something completely different. Has anyone else noticed that MR is a bit quiet lately?

[Zadillo]

i haven't seen a 15" notebook with a better graphics card, but there is a 17" alienware with dual 512 mb 7900 gs.

http://www.alienware.com/product_detail_pages/Aurora_m9700/aurora-m_specs.aspx?SysCode=PC-LT-AURORA-M-9700&SubCode=SKU-DEFAULT#pdp-nav

But it is 1.8" thick

Well, yeah, exactly.

[localoid]

... If you want a more powerful GPU, wait for the upcoming DirectX 10 mobile GPU's. The GeForce 8600 Go (which will be available in 15" notebooks) is said to be on par, performance wise, with the 7900GS. Presumably there should be similar performance gains in ATI's equivalent chip. ...

There's also the GeForce Go 8400 and GeForce Go 8300, both of which might end up in some <15" Santa Rosa notebooks...

[Zadillo]

There's also the GeForce Go 8400 and GeForce Go 8300, both of which might end up in some <15" Santa Rosa notebooks...

Yeah, true.... and I think they've already been seen in some lower-cost 15" Santa Rosa notebook specs (sort of like how HP uses only a GeForce 7400 in their current 15" Pavillion laptops).

It should be interesting to see what the performance level of the 8400 Go is especially; assuming it's more powerful than a 7400, but not as powerful as the GeForce Go 8600, it would be pretty nice if it offered performance somewhere along the lines of the current GeForce 7600. Frankly that would be pretty impressive, as it would allow some pretty nice performance in machines like the Sony SZ and Dell XPSM1210, for example.

[Daveway]

Dell's Santa Rosa offerings:

Engadget Link (http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/03/dell-says-us-too-with-latitude-d830-and-d630-santa-rosa-and-a/)

[dartzorichalcos]

The upgrades (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Rosa_platform) are going to be worth the wait (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=286247).

[Erasmus]

OK, How about this.
I see no reason why Apple would want to put in a X1800, X1900, Go 7900, etc in the Macbook Pro of any size. There is little point.

It seems to be a choice for Apple between sticking with the proven but slow X1600, and either the Go 8600 or Mobility HD2600. These are far more likely to give really decent improvements in performance, and hopefully won't draw much more power than the X1600. They are the next generation GPU, that can run DX10. The Go7900GS can not. Perhaps Apple will use some of the new technology in some sort of Apple version of DX10?

[diamond.g]

OK, How about this.
I see no reason why Apple would want to put in a X1800, X1900, Go 7900, etc in the Macbook Pro of any size. There is little point.

It seems to be a choice for Apple between sticking with the proven but slow X1600, and either the Go 8600 or Mobility HD2600. These are far more likely to give really decent improvements in performance, and hopefully won't draw much more power than the X1600. They are the next generation GPU, that can run DX10. The Go7900GS can not. Perhaps Apple will use some of the new technology in some sort of Apple version of DX10?

I think most of the frustrations is you are getting a high end notebook with a midgrade graphics solution. To be honest if I paid 1999 for a notebook it should come with the best graphics you can find (for the price). When people point towards getting a notebook that has 2 gig of ram and a larger hard drive I get kind of confused. The midrange MBP has the 256mb X1600 which is really it's only advantage over the cheaper model (the ram and the hd can be upgraded later possibly for a cheaper price [maybe]). The graphics card? Not so easy to upgrade that (especially since Apple refuses to use MXM). Shoot even on the 17 inch MBP they could have used the X1800 to further assert Apples leetness in notebook design.

On the DX10 thing. So far there is no equivelent OGL profile to do some of the eefects, like the geometry shaders. Does Apple allow the vender to update the OGL ICD? I know there are EXT's that allow access to those special functions, but there is no universal way of doing it yet. IMHO, that (and the complete lack of the software layer) is why D3d is easier to use.
I would be interested in seeing if Apple could come up with something that the IHV's (ie AMD + Nvidia) would go for.

[BenRoethig]

I think most of the frustrations is you are getting a high end notebook with a midgrade graphics solution. To be honest if I paid 1999 for a notebook it should come with the best graphics you can find (for the price). When people point towards getting a notebook that has 2 gig of ram and a larger hard drive I get kind of confused. The midrange MBP has the 256mb X1600 which is really it's only advantage over the cheaper model (the ram and the hd can be upgraded later possibly for a cheaper price [maybe]). The graphics card? Not so easy to upgrade that (especially since Apple refuses to use MXM). Shoot even on the 17 inch MBP they could have used the X1800 to further assert Apples leetness in notebook design.

On the DX10 thing. So far there is no equivelent OGL profile to do some of the eefects, like the geometry shaders. Does Apple allow the vender to update the OGL ICD? I know there are EXT's that allow access to those special functions, but there is no universal way of doing it yet. IMHO, that (and the complete lack of the software layer) is why D3d is easier to use.
I would be interested in seeing if Apple could come up with something that the IHV's (ie AMD + Nvidia) would go for.

in the high grade notebook market there are two classes: desktop replacement and thin and light. DTRs sacrifice mobility for greater power and features and the thin and lights sacrifice features to make themselves more portable and usually better looking. Apple only offers laptops in the thin and light class.

[diamond.g]

in the high grade notebook market there are two classes: desktop replacement and thin and light. DTRs sacrifice mobility for greater power and features and the thin and lights sacrifice features to make themselves more portable and usually better looking. Apple only offers laptops in the thin and light class.

Ah, interesting. I can see the conflicting interest there. Although in the 17" model they still could have used the 7900GS (only 3 watts more than the X1600 at stock clocks).

[Zadillo]

Ah, interesting. I can see the conflicting interest there. Although in the 17" model they still could have used the 7900GS (only 3 watts more than the X1600 at stock clocks).

I don't know, there might be other reasons an X1800 couldn't be used there (assuming they would use another ATI part). I've only seen the 7900GS in the Inspiron 1705 and the Toshiba P105, both of which are much heavier and thicker than a 17" MBP. I haven't seen any 1" thick 17" laptops that feature a 7900GS.

[diamond.g]

I don't know, there might be other reasons an X1800 couldn't be used there (assuming they would use another ATI part). I've only seen the 7900GS in the Inspiron 1705 and the Toshiba P105, both of which are much heavier and thicker than a 17" MBP. I haven't seen any 1" thick 17" laptops that feature a 7900GS.

Neither have I. Maybe Apple will blaze a trail in that arena :D.

EDIT:Found this (http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=70254) link. It has a decent list of the mobile GPU solutions. Some even have power requirements listed.

[Zadillo]

Neither have I. Maybe Apple will blaze a trail in that arena :D.

EDIT:Found this (http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=70254) link. It has a decent list of the mobile GPU solutions. Some even have power requirements listed.

Well, again, it's no longer going to be necessary. As long as Apple does use the updated GPU's (like the GeForce 8600 or ATI's mobile X2600), they will be able to offer that level of performance without any extraordinary effort.

The 8600 is already known to be available in some upcoming 14 and 15" notebooks from Asus, so it should be possible for Apple to use (or use the ATI equivalent).

[BenRoethig]

Neither have I. Maybe Apple will blaze a trail in that arena :D.

EDIT:Found this (http://forum.notebookreview.com/showthread.php?t=70254) link. It has a decent list of the mobile GPU solutions. Some even have power requirements listed.

even with a lower end midrange GPU, the MBP is pretty close to blazing whatever sits under it. Apple has taken the design to the edge here. Anymore and you could see a very unreliable machine.

[Swarmlord]

I think most of the frustrations is you are getting a high end notebook with a midgrade graphics solution.<snip>

I agree. Seems there's too much emphasis on the cpu and not enough focus on getting top notch graphics performance to go with it.

[Zadillo]

even with a lower end midrange GPU, the MBP is pretty close to blazing whatever sits under it. Apple has taken the design to the edge here. Anymore and you could see a very unreliable machine.

Yeah, honestly, I'm not sure what people expect Apple to do here. I see so many comments here about how there's no reason Apple shouldn't be sticking something like an X1800 or GeForce 7900GS in there, and it just doesn't seem realistic.

For people who think that it would be so easy to get more out of the current MBP, I'd invite them to spend some time with the Asus G1. That is a 15" laptop that is 1.5" thick and weighs 6.8 pounds, and features the best possible mobile GPU currently available, a GeForce 7700 with 512MB of RAM.

This is a machine that is much thicker and much heavier than a 15" MBP.....

But even with that extra room, it still runs VERY hot. And this is just a 7700, not even the 7900GS that some people are insisting could be crammed in a 15" MBP.

Seriously, Apple can only do so much with the parts that are available. With the upcoming next generation of mobile GPU's they will be able to offer better relative performance (just as a part like the X1600 offered better performance than the Radeon 9700 Mobility before it).

[diamond.g]

Yeah, honestly, I'm not sure what people expect Apple to do here. I see so many comments here about how there's no reason Apple shouldn't be sticking something like an X1800 or GeForce 7900GS in there, and it just doesn't seem realistic.

For people who think that it would be so easy to get more out of the current MBP, I'd invite them to spend some time with the Asus G1. That is a 15" laptop that is 1.5" thick and weighs 6.8 pounds, and features the best possible mobile GPU currently available, a GeForce 7700 with 512MB of RAM.

This is a machine that is much thicker and much heavier than a 15" MBP.....

But even with that extra room, it still runs VERY hot. And this is just a 7700, not even the 7900GS that some people are insisting could be crammed in a 15" MBP.

Seriously, Apple can only do so much with the parts that are available. With the upcoming next generation of mobile GPU's they will be able to offer better relative performance (just as a part like the X1600 offered better performance than the Radeon 9700 Mobility before it).

Well I figure that the 7900GS can be placed in the MBP. Why? Cause the X1600 isn't even running at full speed. I just figure the same can be done for the 7900GS. I mean are you guys saying that Apples MBP design can't handle maybe 3 more watts of heat? The 7900GS runs at a lower clock rate than the X1600 does stock. It also has the advantage of an additional 8 PS, 2 VS and 8 ROPS. Not even mentioning that it is a 265bit part that alone would be a godsend for graphics apps that rely on memory bandwidth.

[Zadillo]

Well I figure that the 7900GS can be placed in the MBP. Why? Cause the X1600 isn't even running at full speed. I just figure the same can be done for the 7900GS. I mean are you guys saying that Apples MBP design can't handle maybe 3 more watts of heat?

Your logic doesn't make any sense.

The X1600 even isn't running at the full clockspeed, so your suggestion is to cram a 7900GS in there and dramatically underclock it?

What would be the point exactly? All that would do is increase the price and offer no performance benefit, because it would be so dramatically underclocked.

Again, there is a reason that NO-ONE has a 15" laptop with a GeForce 7900GS in it right now...... and for that matter, no-one has a 1" thick 17" laptop with one either. It isn't physically possible, and it would serve no real performance benefit.

Even that behemoth Asus G1, which as I noted is 1.5" thick and 6.8 pounds, doesn't feature one, because it wouldn't work.

Again, if you want GeForce 7900GS level performance in a 15" laptop, you need to wait for the upcoming 15" laptops featuring a GeForce 8600, which are able to do that thanks to improvements in efficiency and manufacturing that now allow them to make a part suitable for 14 and 15" laptops that is more powerful (just as the current X1600 allows for power that previously hadn't been available in laptops of that form factor).

-Zadillo

[diamond.g]

Your logic doesn't make any sense.

The X1600 even isn't running at the full clockspeed, so your suggestion is to cram a 7900GS in there and dramatically underclock it?

What would be the point exactly? All that would do is increase the price and offer no performance benefit, because it would be so dramatically underclocked.

Again, there is a reason that NO-ONE has a 15" laptop with a GeForce 7900GS in it right now...... and for that matter, no-one has a 1" thick 17" laptop with one either. It isn't physically possible, and it would serve no real performance benefit.

Even that behemoth Asus G1, which as I noted is 1.5" thick and 6.8 pounds, doesn't feature one, because it wouldn't work.

Again, if you want GeForce 7900GS level performance in a 15" laptop, you need to wait for the upcoming 15" laptops featuring a GeForce 8600, which are able to do that thanks to improvements in efficiency and manufacturing that now allow them to make a part suitable for 14 and 15" laptops that is more powerful (just as the current X1600 allows for power that previously hadn't been available in laptops of that form factor).

-Zadillo

Sorry I expanded my thoughts while you must have been typing.

[ready2switch]

http://www.cnet.com/4520-6022_1-6410042-1.html

"Intel debuts Core Duo: dual-core processors come to laptops

By Justin Jaffe
Thursday, January 5, 2006

In a keynote speech today by CEO Paul Otellini at CES in Las Vegas, Intel officially unveiled its new Centrino Duo Mobile Technology. The centerpiece of the Duo Mobile chipset, previously code-named Napa, is Intel's Core Duo chip, which places two mobile processing cores on one chip. "


http://www.apple.com/hotnews/articles/2006/01/mwsf/

"Macworld Keynote
Apple CEO Steve Jobs delivered a keynote presentation on Tuesday, January 10, at 9 a.m. PST, introducing the latest products from Apple, including the new iMac and MacBook Pro computers built with the Intel Core Duo chip..."

It was the following week, not the next day.

Thanks for the correction. My memory had it as a Monday/Tuesday announcement schedule. Still, Thursday to Tuesday is a pretty fair turn around. :D

[Zadillo]

Sorry I expanded my thoughts while you must have been typing.

Yes, I saw that after my reply was posted.

Honestly though, I'd still say the same thing I said above. It just isn't feasible. This isn't just an Apple thing. I don't know all the technical details; I just know that the GeForce 7900GS in its current form is not available in any 15" notebooks, and all evidence points to it being pretty much pointless to try putting one in a 15" notebook (if you had to dramatically underclock it, the performance benefits of a 7900GS would be lost, and all you'd have is a much more expensive GPU that can't be fully utilized).

Again, for the performance desired, one needs to wait for the 8600 Go, which offers that kind of performance but with a new manufacturing process that allows them to make a GPU that CAN be used in 14 and 15" notebooks.

[diamond.g]

Yes, I saw that after my reply was posted.

Honestly though, I'd still say the same thing I said above. It just isn't feasible. This isn't just an Apple thing. I don't know all the technical details; I just know that the GeForce 7900GS in its current form is not available in any 15" notebooks, and all evidence points to it being pretty much pointless to try putting one in a 15" notebook (if you had to dramatically underclock it, the performance benefits of a 7900GS would be lost, and all you'd have is a much more expensive GPU that can't be fully utilized).

Again, for the performance desired, one needs to wait for the 8600 Go, which offers that kind of performance but with a new manufacturing process that allows them to make a GPU that CAN be used in 14 and 15" notebooks.

Hmm, after some digging (http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3564) it seems that the X1600 runs at it's normal clockrate. Is there a way for anyone with a MBP to find out what clockrate their GPU is running at? Cause if that is true then 3 watts isn't a big deal and it could be done. At this point I see Apple waiting for AMD's solution to see if it is better than Nvidia's. Since there is no DX for Mac's it comes down to things like power requirements and unit cost for Apple.

[Zadillo]

Hmm, after some digging (http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3564) it seems that the X1600 runs at it's normal clockrate. Is there a way for anyone with a MBP to find out what clockrate their GPU is running at? Cause if that is true then 3 watts isn't a big deal and it could be done. At this point I see Apple waiting for AMD's solution to see if it is better than Nvidia's. Since there is no DX for Mac's it comes down to things like power requirements and unit cost for Apple.

Yes, using ATItool on Windows while in Boot Camp. This guy posted a pretty detailed review of his C2D MBP:

http://lartren.com/mac/

Using ATItool he was able to determine the X1600 was clocked at 418.50 core and 445.50 memory (which was a significant improvement over the original Core Duo MBP, which had an X1600 clocked in the low 300's I believe (don't remember the exact numbers). The improved ventilation I think especially in the C2D MBP allowed for the higher default clockspeeds.

The stock clockspeeds of the X1600 are 470/470, but many laptop manufacturers that use the X1600 underclock it to some degree, especially in thinner and lighter notebooks that use them.

[milkmanamok]

Recently leaked: http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3671

First mention I've seen that seems to confirm EVDO & HSPDA could be available now:

* Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo T7100 / T7700, FSB 800MHz
* Memory: 4GB DDR2 PC2-5300 a 667MHz
* Screen: 14,1" WXGA BrightView
* Graphics: Intel GMA X3100
* Hard Drive SATA 80-120-160 at 5400rpm / 80GB at 7200 rpm
* Networking: BroadCom 5787 10/100/1000 LAN, Wireless LAN 802.11 a,b,g,n, Bluetooth 2.0, WWAN (EVDO, HSDPA)

[Zadillo]

Recently leaked: http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3671

First mention I've seen that seems to confirm EVDO & HSPDA could be available now:

* Processor: Intel Core 2 Duo T7100 / T7700, FSB 800MHz
* Memory: 4GB DDR2 PC2-5300 a 667MHz
* Screen: 14,1" WXGA BrightView
* Graphics: Intel GMA X3100
* Hard Drive SATA 80-120-160 at 5400rpm / 80GB at 7200 rpm
* Networking: BroadCom 5787 10/100/1000 LAN, Wireless LAN 802.11 a,b,g,n, Bluetooth 2.0, WWAN (EVDO, HSDPA)

Not sure why that would be a surprise; that's simply HP/Compaq saying that those are the WWAN options that will be options on some of their models. Plenty of laptop manufacturers have been including EVDO or HSPDA modems as options for a while now.

[Wolfpup]

Next week, May 9th is apparently the official launch. Still nothing leaked about Dell or Apple (the two companies I'm most likely to choose from).

Some of the leaked systems DO include Geforce 8600 or 8400 parts...and that on a 15" notebook. I *really* wish someone could get an 8800GTS in a 17" or 19" system, but I guess they won't do it until a process shrink.

[Zadillo]

Next week, May 9th is apparently the official launch. Still nothing leaked about Dell or Apple (the two companies I'm most likely to choose from).

Some of the leaked systems DO include Geforce 8600 or 8400 parts...and that on a 15" notebook. I *really* wish someone could get an 8800GTS in a 17" or 19" system, but I guess they won't do it until a process shrink.

Actually some info has leaked on two Dell Latitude models (the D630 and D840 or something..... replacements for the current similar models). Nothing really shocking though, just updates to the existing Latitudes they replace.

There will surely be an 8800 Go in 17" laptops, as that would be the logical replacement for the 7900's in current 17" systems. But it sounds like they are not due until later in the year (for the reason you cited).

[localoid]

Next week, May 9th is apparently the official launch. Still nothing leaked about Dell or Apple (the two companies I'm most likely to choose from). ...

Yep. Just days ago, Intel CEO Paul Otellini confirmed (http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1895,2125675,00.asp) that Santa Rosa will launch on May 9th.

Re: Dell -- there have been some leaks (http://www.engadget.com/2007/05/03/dell-says-us-too-with-latitude-d830-and-d630-santa-rosa-and-a/) about Santa Rosa offerings by that company.

Re: Apple -- we might hear about something on Wednesday. (But then again, maybe not.) ;)

[Wolfpup]

Two bad nobody's leaked the 17" Dells. Those are the interesting ones. It would have been pointless waiting more than a couple of weeks for a low end model to update.

[Aniej]

I would love to see an update in the next month or so. I would consider some info on Weds to be a delightful appetizer to June's main course. Oh and prior to June, or Wednesday for that matter, I would love to see a new guide made for MacRumors that teach both spelling and grammar.

[tristan]

* Memory: 4GB DDR2 PC2-5300 a 667MHz


What's with the 667 mhz memory? Shouldn't Santa Rosa be 800 mhz?

[Wolfpup]

What's with the 667 mhz memory? Shouldn't Santa Rosa be 800 mhz?

No, desktops currently ship with 667MHz RAM too.

[tristan]

No, desktops currently ship with 667MHz RAM too.

Me confused. Then what stuff does the CPU access at 800 mhz in the Santa Rosa platform? What else is on the FSB besides memory that's speed-dependent?

[Zadillo]

As I've read it, the Santa Rosa platform supports 800 MHz memory, but many manufacturers will be shipping laptops with only 667 MHz memory (I think this is sort of like how some manufacturers still ship machines supporting 667 MHz memory with cheaper 533 MHz memory)

[BenRoethig]

DDR800 (and 1066 on the desktop side) is expensive and rare.

[Erasmus]

DDR800 (and 1066 on the desktop side) is expensive and rare.

Quite. It seems Crucial RAM doesn't sell it.

In fact, I can't find any notebook versions of PC2-6400 in any size.
Oh well, Hope and pray Apple can get their hands on some nice 1 and 2 GB sticks. Personally, I'll take 2x1GB.

(To below post): Hope so.

[Zadillo]

DDR800 (and 1066 on the desktop side) is expensive and rare.

I read somewhere that RAM manufacturers are beefing up production of DDR800 RAM in order to meet demand after the Santa Rosa platform is released, so I imagine prices will become more reasonable

[localoid]

Speaking of RAM: Intel is rumored to have have something they'll say about DDR3 and "Bearlake" (http://www.theinquirer.net/default.aspx?article=39339) on on Wednesday... ;)

[Wolfpup]

Me confused. Then what stuff does the CPU access at 800 mhz in the Santa Rosa platform? What else is on the FSB besides memory that's speed-dependent?

The rest of the system, including the GPU, etc. Intel's FSB has run faster than the RAM clock speed for years now. And technically the RAM isn't really clocked at that speed anyway (transfers twice per clock cycle).

[jsbarone]

I'm sticking with my May 8th prediction. It seems to fit perfectly with Apple's release schedule and the shipping dates on already announced SR notebooks.

Judgement Day. When does Apple usually announce these kinds of things? Daddy wants a brand new Mac.

[BenRoethig]

Judgement Day. When does Apple usually announce these kinds of things? Daddy wants a brand new Mac.

When they want to. They don't exactly have set schedule.

[RRK]

Judgement Day. When does Apple usually announce these kinds of things? Daddy wants a brand new Mac.

The iMacs and Mac minis are about a month and a half to two months older then the MacBooks and MacBook Pros. They will probably get updated first then, soon after, the notebooks.

Unless they release them all at WWDC I would think iMac and Mac mini released before WWDC, LED MacBook Pro at WWDC, and Macbook shortly after. iPhone and later the new iPod should take us to the 10.5 ship date. M2C aka from my butt.

[jsbarone]

Well consider me disappointed. I was hoping---more like wishing that the new Macbooks would come out today. I suppose I'll just have to keep waiting for the new ones to come out.

[Zadillo]

Well consider me disappointed. I was hoping---more like wishing that the new Macbooks would come out today. I suppose I'll just have to keep waiting for the new ones to come out.

Releasing new MacBooks a day before ANY company can officially unveil their Santa Rosa-based laptops? Wouldn't make much sense. The official launch data for Santa Rosa even is May 9th, so Apple couldn't do an official announcement before that even if they wanted to.

[Eidorian]

http://www.hardwarezone.com/articles/view.php?cid=14&id=2256

[zechmann]

Intel is hosting a LIVE chat the 10/11 (4-5:30pm EST) about the new processor. maybe something about apple will slip out ... probably not :(

[localoid]

Intel has added the specs for its new chipsets (http://www.intel.com/products/laptop/chipsets/index.htm?iid=laptop_body+chips) and CPUs (http://processorfinder.intel.com/List.aspx?ProcFam=2643&sSpec=&OrdCode=) online...

[markfc]

I take it Apple will be using Centrino Pro and not Centrino Duo, as Duo doesn't have the Virtualisation stuff does it?

[localoid]

I take it Apple will be using Centrino Pro and not Centrino Duo, as Duo doesn't have the Virtualisation stuff does it?

Most of Intel's (current) mobile Core Duo CPUs do have VT support.

In fact, there are very few mobile Intel CD or C2D CPUs that do not support Intel's Virtualization Technology. The T5500 and T2300E are the only one I can think of (that do not). Both are low-end CPUs. There may be some other low-spec "OEM" CD or C2D Intel mobile CPUs that do not, but Apple hasn't used such (to date, at least.)

Intel's tool (http://processorfinder.intel.com/Default.aspx)will tell you for certain. See, for example: mobile Core Duo CPUs with Virtualization Technology (http://processorfinder.intel.com/List.aspx?ProcFam=2278&sSpec=&OrdCode=)

[jimN]

I take it Apple will be using Centrino Pro and not Centrino Duo, as Duo doesn't have the Virtualisation stuff does it?

So far I believe that Apple haven't taken the whole centrino platform but rather customised it themselves as they see fit - the wireless solution that they chose for the last round of MBP/MBs was not the centrino one for example. Hopefully apple will add H264 hardware decoding as it appears this is lacking. In addition it seems that all this fancy Robson caching stuff is design for vista use only - we'll have to hope for implementation in leopard or an update (I expect the microsoft lot will crow one way or the other).

[RRK]

Hopefully apple will add H264 hardware decoding as it appears this is lacking.

Didn't Apple make a statement a while ago that they were going to add this to all models.

[Eidorian]

Didn't Apple make a statement a while ago that they were going to add this to all models.It was rumored. :rolleyes:

[localoid]

As a side note regarding one of Santa Rosa's features...

I see it's only $50 (US) to add a 1G Intel Turbo Memory (aka, Robson cache) on Lenovo's new T61 notebook. That sounds like really decent bang for the buck. Hopefully, this inexpensive technology will turn up on most or perhaps all of Apple's new offerings. Err, along with the drivers for it, of course! ;)