AT&T to Target iPhone to Business Customers?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Macworld reports (http://www.macworld.com/news/2007/04/23/iphone/index.php) that AT&T (formerly Cingular) plans on marketing Apple's upcoming iPhone to business users.

Cingular, which was acquired by AT&T, recently decided that the iPhone will appeal to business users and the operator is now working hard to ensure that its backend enterprise billing and support systems will accommodate the device when it ships, said a source familiar with the company’s plans, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

The news comes in the wake of comments (http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9588_22-6177577.html) by a Microsoft executive that the iPhone would "irrelevant to business users" due to a lack of 3rd party support:

"[The iPhone is] a closed device that you cannot install applications on, and there's no support for Office documents. If you're an enterprise and want to roll out a line of business applications, it's just not an option. Even using it as a heavy messaging device will be a challenge," the executive added.

Analysts appear to agree and feel that it would be a mistake for AT&T to market it specifically to business users who may depend on these 3rd party applications as well as ongoing concerns about battery life and the non-removable battery.

Apple stated early on (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/11/apple-iphone-apps-coming-but-limited/) that they will be limiting 3rd party development on the Apple iPhone. While additional applications may become available, they will be in a "controlled environment".

[Bosunsfate]

Not really a surprise. After all, its only business people who could afford it.

Now if I can just get my boss to approve the requisition...:rolleyes:

[VanMac]

Well, I'm going to buy one, and write it off as a business expense :)

Not sure if I see many crackberry addicts switching, but I see no reason why it wont be able to be used by some companies as their corporate communication device.....

[Bosunsfate]

Analysts appear to agree and feel that it would be a mistake for AT&T to market it specifically to business users who may depend on these 3rd party applications as well as ongoing concerns about battery life and the non-removal battery.

I think these analysts have it wrong. How many people seriously edit, or for that matter even view, an office document on one of these devices?

Of course that goes against what MS is trying to advocate with the whole windows mobile media blitz.

Personally its one of those things, you think you need it, but never use it...

[yzp]

The news comes in the wake of comments (http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9588_22-6177577.html) by a Microsoft executive that the iPhone would "irrelevant to business users" due to a lack of 3rd party support:



MS' guys are just jealous...

[MacVault]

...The news comes in the wake of comments (http://news.zdnet.com/2100-9588_22-6177577.html) by a Microsoft executive that the iPhone would "irrelevant to business users" due to a lack of 3rd party support:

Analysts appear to agree and feel that it would be a mistake for AT&T to market it specifically to business users who may depend on these 3rd party applications as well as ongoing concerns about battery life and the non-removal battery...

Ok, let me try to understand this... the Microsoft exec says iPhone is bad because it's "closed" and thus won't run Office??? Well, isn't Office ****** "CLOSED" itself? What a hypocrit! :mad: :mad: :mad:

[peestandingup]

Microsoft is gonna make themselves look stupid in a few months when there are indeed apps that'll open/create word files & when other 3rd party apps are released for iPhone.

Saying that the user "cannot install applications on" the device is just stupid of them to even say. Oh, really Microsoft?? Last time I checked, no one said you wont be able to install apps on the phone, just that they will have to pass Apple's tests, like the iPod games are now.

How 'bout shuttin' up until we know the specifics, MS??

[EagerDragon]

I can see this for small businesses but not for large businesses.

Corporations need to be able to encrypt the content of the device, they need to comunicate over encrypted channels (end to end with their internal email server) and need to comunicate via email with outsiders via some other form of secured email.

Last but not least, entering the wrong code should wipe the device after n number of bad tries.

Based on what little we know so far, these capabilites are not in the iPhone making it like any other phone other than blackberry. Blackberry phone and their server software that runs on the Corporate email server has these capabilities and more.

Sorry not yet in the same league, but I do want one for my use not work.

[pilotError]

Is there some unannounced App that AT&T knows about?

Doesn't make sense unless they put together something to compete with the crackberries...

[chabig]

As the battery is CHARGABLE, who cares whether or not it's removable?

[jfruh]

Honestly, my understanding is that one of the things that most terrifies corporate IT departments is employees downloading and installing any old thing on their laptops or cell phones. They might see the limited ability to install apps on the iPhone as a plus.

[tribulation]

MS' guys are just jealous...

I don't think so. Apple is doing the same old detrimental thing again. Just as the iTV can be hacked, the phones will be too. But the quality of the apps that will run "hacked" will be nowhere near what they could have been if Apple would just release their darn SDK for 3rd party developers.

Another bold but stupid move. Nobody is saying that they have to financially support the 3rd party products, aka tech support, but they should by no means purposely prevent them.

3rd party apps are more than just MS Office viewer/editors. If you've ever owned a Palm you know what I mean. Games, scientific applications, finance utilities, etc etc etc etc. There are limitless possibilities if they opened up the API for the phone. Without out it, you'll be stuck with an addressbook, and a few other simplistic programs that in practice do little more than a $20 Nokia - look a bit prettier, but the features are not much different. It's like saying you can buy a new Mac Pro, but you can't install anything on it. You can only use iLife. For most people, they wouldn't buy it. You can only do so much with iLife. But the Mac thrives on 3rd party products, just like the mini OSX iPhone edition should/could. Totally stupid in my opinion.

They're shooting themselves in the foot. In the end, it will happen anyways with complex hacks and workarounds, but the products will not thrive and there will be little incentive for any developer to make anything for it since the experience level for just getting the software on it will be more than the novice can figure out.

If you don't want to install 3rd party apps on it, fine. Don't. But let those of us who do, do. A miniature mobile Mac OSX phone could be so cool. But a miniature mobile locked email and google map viewer is pretty low for the high price tag.

[longofest]

I can see this for small businesses but not for large businesses.

Corporations need to be able to encrypt the content of the device, they need to comunicate over encrypted channels (end to end with their internal email server) and need to comunicate via email with outsiders via some other form of secured email.

Last but not least, entering the wrong code should wipe the device after n number of bad tries.

Based on what little we know so far, these capabilites are not in the iPhone making it like any other phone other than blackberry. Blackberry phone and their server software that runs on the Corporate email server has these capabilities and more.

Sorry not yet in the same league, but I do want one for my use not work.

I agree... Also, Blackberry and MS has championed PUSH email. As far as I know, iPhone only supports pull-type email (IMAP). That is the first thing big business is going to look for, and when they see it isn't present, they will pass.

That is, unless Apple is building push-email support into it and we don't know it yet...

[pubwvj]

Frankly a closed iPhone is not all that interesting. Now, if it were a _real_ Mac, an open computer, then it would be highly interesting.

[tribulation]

Honestly, my understanding is that one of the things that most terrifies corporate IT departments is employees downloading and installing any old thing on their laptops or cell phones. They might see the limited ability to install apps on the iPhone as a plus.

If it's really running a mini OSX, then that's a simple task for standard user accounts and access privileges to take care of. The company installs whatever in admin mode, the user uses it in User mode. Just like on every Mac. Why the iPhone couldn't do something so simple like this is beyond me.

[EagerDragon]

Is there some unannounced App that AT&T knows about?

Doesn't make sense unless they put together something to compete with the crackberries...

Possible, but they maybe going after the small corporations that are not as security concious.

At my company, it would be a very hard sale without all the security features I mention previously, a server that pushes encrypted emails to the device, the ability to return encrypted emails back to the mail server, and the ability to lock the device so no unauthorized applications can be loaded or run.

Maybe Apple has all this coming, but not by June, maybe in a year or so, Rev2 or 3.

[zap2]

AT&T just slapped MS upside the face!


Now to see if it will work!

[EagerDragon]

I agree... Also, Blackberry and MS has championed PUSH email. As far as I know, iPhone only supports pull-type email (IMAP). That is the first thing big business is going to look for, and when they see it isn't present, they will pass.

That is, unless Apple is building push-email support into it and we don't know it yet...

They could do it with pull email, the phone provider would need to hold the encrypted messages until the device pulls it. They do the hosting/holding even for push since the device is not always geoing to be ready to receive. Push vs pull may not be an issue, but secured email would.

Oh and lets not forget the ability to read & edit MS documents.

[Cult Follower]

Well i guess I will be a free customer, because I want one anyway.

[john7jr]

I agree... Also, Blackberry and MS has championed PUSH email. As far as I know, iPhone only supports pull-type email (IMAP). That is the first thing big business is going to look for, and when they see it isn't present, they will pass.

That is, unless Apple is building push-email support into it and we don't know it yet...

Did you even see the announcement? It includes Push email... it comes with a free Yahoo Push email account. No doubt Google and Mac OS X Server will support that soon as well, yada yada...

"...today we are announcing with Yahoo that they are going to provide free PUSH
IMAP EMAIL to all iPhone's customers. So, this isn't just IMAP email, it is PUSH
IMAP email. So that when you get a message it will push it right out to the phone
for you, same as the Blackberry. FREE IMAP PUSH email from Yahoo".

[Macmaniac]

I think it would be silly of Apple not to include some kind of MS Office support, considering a great majority of both Mac(we hat to amdit it) and Windows users use MS Office. Honestly I would like to be able to open these documents on my phone. It makes no sense to limit something that is used so often:apple:

[BornAgainMac]

The Apple Phone will be reliable because Apple locked it down. The unreliable business phone OS from Microsoft isn't good for business. Possible data loss and dropped phone calls isn't acceptable.

Perhaps Microsoft should focus on the Business MP3 player called "Zune Business Pro". You can view Word documents and listen to your meetings and business music on the run. The Zune Shuffle can be used during business meetings to tune out unnecessary chatter during meetings.

[EagerDragon]

Honestly, my understanding is that one of the things that most terrifies corporate IT departments is employees downloading and installing any old thing on their laptops or cell phones. They might see the limited ability to install apps on the iPhone as a plus.

What most corporations fear are:
1) Data Stolen
2) Even worse, data that is not encrypted in a lost or stolen device
3) unauthorized applications that may do who knows what with the device content or to their network of computers. This also includes but not limited to virus, worms and trojans, in general "Malware".

[EagerDragon]

I don't think so. Apple is doing the same old detrimental thing again. Just as the iTV can be hacked, the phones will be too. But the quality of the apps that will run "hacked" will be nowhere near what they could have been if Apple would just release their darn SDK for 3rd party developers.


An SDK and training at developer conference I think is coming.

If there is so much of a wiff that the phone is hackable, Corporate's ass would close so tight you wont be able to push a neadle in. These guys are Risk Adversed, big black eye for Apple.

[twoodcc]

i don't think this is bad. could be good. only time will tell though

[MacbookSwitcher]

iPhone is not going to sell to business users.

No MS Exchange support
No Blackberry support
No viewing and editing of MS Office docs
No real keyboard for heavy email users

The iPhone will sell to young people with alot of disposable income (or rich parents)

[Rot'nApple]

Microsoft is gonna make themselves look stupid in a few months when there are indeed apps that'll open/create word files & when other 3rd party apps are released for iPhone.

Saying that the user "cannot install applications on" the device is just stupid of them to even say. Oh, really Microsoft?? Last time I checked, no one said you wont be able to install apps on the phone, just that they will have to pass Apple's tests, like the iPod games are now.

How 'bout shuttin' up until we know the specifics, MS??

iPhone runs a stripped down version of OS X, right?! Maybe it will run a stripped down version of Boot Camp called "Bootee Camp"?! Bootee being defined as... A soft, usually knitted shoe for a baby. Get your mind out of the gutter folks! Anyway, with Bootee Camp, you can run a stripped down version of MS Office and other stripped down version of other apps. That's if Bootee Camp isn't overshadowed by Parallels stripped down software "Lateral" for iPhone:D

[dadrop]

I am getting an iPhone the second I can, but:

Looks like they fixed it. But as long as the battery is CHARGABLE, who cares whether or not it's removable?

um..me. I would love to be able to have an extra battery. I know I should always plug it in while I'm driving...but I wont. And I am going to often have a dead iphone.

as far as business goes, I'll use it for business, but I am not a business user, I am a designer.

I saw a business user once...on a plane to chicago, befor the plane took off...it was crazy! He was like a high speed robot typing on his pda faster than I could ever type on a keyboard...called 6 people in 5 minutes, talking about profits and margins and other "businessy" stuff...all while drinking 3 screwdrivers. The clicking of his little keypad is how we all knew he was important...very important. The iPhone is not for him.

I have small clients, I consider them friends. I care more about the last episode of survivor than the stock market. My desktop picture will probably be a picture of my daughter playing at the beach or a picture of my wife's boobs. I am not important :) The iPhone is for me.

[herr_neumann]

I do not know how much I can believe something that starts out factually incorrect. Cingular bought AT&T and then decided AT&T was a more recognizable brand. Accordingly they switched the name. This was all over the Wall Street Journal, among others, a few months ago.

[SirOmega]

No one here is mentioning small businesses. They probably already have some IT solution and a tech guy or two, but this would go far in extending their ability to work outside the office. They dont need to view office documents or anything other than make phone calls and read/answer emails while they drive around all day (not while they drive hopefully, you get what I'm saying).

They dont think much about what happens if the device is stolen or whatever, they just want the increased productivity.

For these folks a blackberry, Q or blackjack is overkill and probably too complex for them to setup. If Apple keeps it simple and offers the key features, it could be a boon for mobile productivity in the small business space.

[Digitalclips]

Microsoft is gonna make themselves look stupid in a few months when there are indeed apps that'll open/create word files & when other 3rd party apps are released for iPhone.

Saying that the user "cannot install applications on" the device is just stupid of them to even say. Oh, really Microsoft?? Last time I checked, no one said you wont be able to install apps on the phone, just that they will have to pass Apple's tests, like the iPod games are now.

How 'bout shuttin' up until we know the specifics, MS??

Well said. Mind you it is fun to see MS folk obviously getting worried about all things Apple these days.

Meanwhile many folk dare not even open an Office doc for fear of having their Windoze Boxes taken over by aliens.

Maybe Apple will have a version of iWorks on the iPhone which can safely open MS docs.

[JNB]

My desktop picture will probably be a picture of my daughter playing at the beach or a picture of my wife's boobs. I am not important :) The iPhone is for me.


Off-topic, but I vote for the wife.

[EagerDragon]

No one here is mentioning small businesses. They probably already have some IT solution and a tech guy or two, but this would go far in extending their ability to work outside the office. They dont need to view office documents or anything other than make phone calls and read/answer emails while they drive around all day (not while they drive hopefully, you get what I'm saying).

They dont think much about what happens if the device is stolen or whatever, they just want the increased productivity.

For these folks a blackberry, Q or blackjack is overkill and probably too complex for them to setup. If Apple keeps it simple and offers the key features, it could be a boon for mobile productivity in the small business space.

Correct, self employed and small companies with little or no paranoia, would love the iPhone and the cool factor.

[EagerDragon]

I am getting an iPhone the second I can, but:



um..me. I would love to be able to have an extra battery. I know I should always plug it in while I'm driving...but I wont. And I am going to often have a dead iphone.

as far as business goes, I'll use it for business, but I am not a business user, I am a designer.

I saw a business user once...on a plane to chicago, befor the plane took off...it was crazy! He was like a high speed robot typing on his pda faster than I could ever type on a keyboard...called 6 people in 5 minutes, talking about profits and margins and other "businessy" stuff...all while drinking 3 screwdrivers. The clicking of his little keypad is how we all knew he was important...very important. The iPhone is not for him.

I have small clients, I consider them friends. I care more about the last episode of survivor than the stock market. My desktop picture will probably be a picture of my daughter playing at the beach or a picture of my wife's boobs. I am not important :) The iPhone is for me.

Sounds like the phone and you are a match made in heaven.

PS. Interesting choice for photos, LOL.

[kskill]

who really cares who they market it to?
you'll probably hear about it one way or another. if you want it, you'll get it.
the only downside to marketing it towards businesses is that the ads might be lame.

[maxp1]

I think the order of company aquisition is...

1. Cingular buys AT&T wireless. Get rid of the name, the network is just Cingular.
2. SBC buys Cingular.
3. SBC buys AT&T. Changes name from SBC to AT&T.

So AT&T has been aquired in parts and then come back together as a mostly different company.

[ktlx]

I think the order of company aquisition is...

1. Cingular buys AT&T wireless. Get rid of the name, the network is just Cingular.
2. SBC buys Cingular.
3. SBC buys AT&T. Changes name from SBC to AT&T.
Nope.

Cingular was a joint venture between SBC and BellSouth. They bought AT&T Wireless. SBC bought AT&T and renamed itself AT&T. AT&T bought BellSouth so Cingular was owned only by AT&T.

[iJawn108]

As the battery is CHARGABLE, who cares whether or not it's removable?

:rolleyes: Some people arn't attached to cars you know. It's nice to be able to bring extra batteries.

[Marlor]

No MS Exchange support

That's the main killer. Most business-types I know don't edit Office documents on their smartphones much... but they would be lost if they couldn't sync their email and schedules to it.

[boaredtodeath]

I see Rim just announced blackberry application for WM 6.
Wuuldn't it kick if they announced for the iPhone as well!

[longofest]

Did you even see the announcement? It includes Push email... it comes with a free Yahoo Push email account. No doubt Google and Mac OS X Server will support that soon as well, yada yada...

I did see the announcement, and I had forgotten that he had said that. Apple doesn't mention PUSH email on the iPhone (http://www.apple.com/iphone/internet/) pages.

[Whistleway]

Clearly those who are defending lack of app support seems to be out of touch with reality.

Just ask your neighbour crackberry addict :)

[nagromme]

Microsoft is surely right. ALL business users are identical and have identical needs :rolleyes:

[Sandfleaz]

Exchange server support is the one absolutely necessary function for business use.
I've got a company issued Blackberry. It's great to be able to receive e-mails anytime, anywhere.
But to say the interface is non-intuitive would be an understatement.

It wouldn't take much for the iPhone to eat it's lunch!

[Punkwaffle]

I work at Cingular, err now the new AT&T and today while fixing a customers account I saw that they have loaded the codes for the iPhone plans in the system. Not too descript, but they are APL1 and APL2 listed at $0.00 for the recurring monthly charge. This will probably change, but I have no doubt that AT&T will find a way to completely ****** this up the way they always do. They are a reactive company, not proactive. When Verizon does something we respond the next week. Very rarely have I seen the new AT&T have a vision and a keen eye for marketing.
I am hoping for the best, but I know better.

[stealthman1]

That's the deal breaker as far as business is concerned IMHO, MS Exchange push (ie Good) and there is nothing holding business back. Most of the high power dudes I know want this phone, it just has to sync to their office. Provide a piggyback power source backup (which I know there is for iPod) and it's a done deal.

[mambodancer]

I have talked to several sales reps at several cingular stores and they all report and say the same thing. Every cingular rep wants one. They get dozens of people asking about the Apple Phone daily, price isn't the issue, they want to know if there is a waiting list and can they sign up. Cingular itself has over a million people signed up just to be notified when the iPhone is available (more interest in this product than any product in there history) and the stores feel they will offer a special event the day the phone becomes available. They anticipate a mob scene and they are probably right to expect it. They also seem to think that Steve Jobs estimate of 1% of market share is conservative. I tend to agree.

[jbernie]

Possible, but they maybe going after the small corporations that are not as security concious.

At my company, it would be a very hard sale without all the security features I mention previously, a server that pushes encrypted emails to the device, the ability to return encrypted emails back to the mail server, and the ability to lock the device so no unauthorized applications can be loaded or run.

Maybe Apple has all this coming, but not by June, maybe in a year or so, Rev2 or 3.

Or maybe sell to corp. using macs, when it comes to companies running primarily windows machines then the iPhone doesn't have much luck. My company has only allowed a very very small # of macs les than 0.33 % of end user machines are macs and they needed a business case wih their Director approval and our IT Director approval as well.

iPhone for us? No chance. If it doesn't integrate with Exchange then you have zero chance to even get it to the point of being considered. Too many companies won't allow it as it won't synch with their mail servers. Crackberry users won't cope with that.

Now in the small busines market I think you will get some moderate sales as the person wanting the device is the person paying the bills and they only need to justify the cost and integration issues to themselves and maybe their spouse :).

The phone definately has some neat features, but business ready it is not. Maybe in v2 or something when they take care of some of these issues will business really come on board, though I would inclinded to say that windows based businesses will stick with windows based phones or newer blackberry versions as they are released.

Keep in mind, large companies that have blackberrys normally have blackberry servers inhouse and they cost $$$ to setup and maintain, so you would need a good reason to swich your servers (hw or sw) and your devices. Not a wise decision to make without some really good features.

[JimmyTJ]

Honestly, my understanding is that one of the things that most terrifies corporate IT departments is employees downloading and installing any old thing on their laptops or cell phones. They might see the limited ability to install apps on the iPhone as a plus.

I agree 100%. From a corporate IT perspective, this is a Feature!

[Object-X]

Think about it. There is no doubt that Apple will sell millions of these phones despite it's high price. But for it to really be successful it will need more than the Mac faithful to take it to the next level. Clearly corporate users could be a nice market for the device.

However, Apple is really not in the enterprise is a serious way. The real issue is wether it would work with Exchange. But Apple has it's own Excahnge equivalent coming in October with Leopard Server's calendaring software.

Exchange is expensive. Start with $700 for the application itself. Then add about $67 per user for the CALs. Then add another $3000 - $4000 for a nice server to run it on. Depending on the size of your company, that's some serious money. Now compare that with Apple's $3000 Xserve which comes with Leopard calendar and no CAL restrictions. It does everything Exchange does pretty much (and probably better).

It's very competitive. Will Apple push it? Will they try to sell Xserves as Exchange replacements? If a large corporation like AT&T were to back it that might help. Could this be an incentive for Apple to start pushing into the enterprise? I think it might be. Apple certainly has a vested interest to see the iPhone succeed.

Here is a product that might encourage Apple to be more aggressive with their server line. I think they can do what would have seemed impossible just a few years ago -- take market share away from Microsoft in the enterprise.

[jicon]

As said by others...

Worthless to corporations running Exchange. I don't know of any businesses who utilize yahoo mail.
3rd Party Apps are a must.
Removable battery a must.
Some sort of tactile feel of the keys is needed for frequent use of the keyboard. I can see many getting frustrated with the phone.

[tutubibi]

I get the feeling that this Apple/AT&T relationship will end up in a messy divorce, sooner than anybody expected.

The good side of it: Apple will probably offer iPhone without MNO ties and unlocked sooner that expected.

[tribulation]

An SDK and training at developer conference I think is coming.

There's nothing scheduled as of today, the only thing related is a session called "Developing Sites for iPhone" [http://developer.apple.com/wwdc/sessions/].

It mentions "hosted web application". But that's hardly anything worthwhile and a far cry from a local full fledge application. Too bad :(

I agree with concern of a more open device is a less-secure device argument. But it can be both. Again, look at OSX. The User/Admin approach in OSX has thus far kept the system more secure than just about anything else. Of course there are vulnerabilities in everything, the iphone will most certainly have system updates as well and could/will have security updates too.

Would a checkbox in the Admin user/mode that allows or disallows foreign applications really be that insecure or difficult? Click it, a warning comes up saying that it can make your system insecure, unstable, blah blah...
Then if the user proceeds, it is just the same ballpark as any other computer. If not, the user is safe with apple only apps. Seems like this would fit all users perfectly and since the Admin user in a corporate environment would be password protected, the employee wouldn't be able to do anything with it anyways that the employer didn't want.

[tribulation]

Microsoft is gonna make themselves look stupid in a few months when there are indeed apps that'll open/create word files & when other 3rd party apps are released for iPhone.

Saying that the user "cannot install applications on" the device is just stupid of them to even say. Oh, really Microsoft?? Last time I checked, no one said you wont be able to install apps on the phone, just that they will have to pass Apple's tests, like the iPod games are now.

How 'bout shuttin' up until we know the specifics, MS??

This will not end up being much better than the default Apple supplied apps. As it stands now, the iPod is barely, barely open to developers, and only then a very small subset with money. There is absolutely no way for smaller developers to get a foothold in it.

Look at the selection you have now. There are currently 12 official games available for the iPod. That's ridiculous. Apple has very publicly chosen the select few developers to make those games, and not let anyone else in the race - even very skilled and accomplished companies that would have made killer games 50 times what they have now.

Plus Apple takes care of the sale of these apps. I can only image the petty share the developer gets out of that $4.99 for an iPod game.

So no, an Apple-controlled "marketplace" or approved apps will not make it a platform that people will develop for. Anyone that does anything besides email and web browsing on a normal Mac uses umpteen shareware type products daily. Really, look through your computer and check out the number of shareware apps you have and use all the time that were created by a smaller company with less than a million-dollar annual income [figure picked from the sky, you know what I mean]. Some of the best programs available and most used programs on the Mac were and are made by small developers with 1-5 people. Those companies would not stand a chance in an Apple-controlled iPhone world...

[dashiel]

I can see this for small businesses but not for large businesses.

Corporations need to be able to encrypt the content of the device, they need to comunicate over encrypted channels (end to end with their internal email server) and need to comunicate via email with outsiders via some other form of secured email.

Last but not least, entering the wrong code should wipe the device after n number of bad tries.

Based on what little we know so far, these capabilites are not in the iPhone making it like any other phone other than blackberry. Blackberry phone and their server software that runs on the Corporate email server has these capabilities and more.

we don't know one way or the other. apple has let very little about the phone other than the gee-whiz features be known, all else is speculation. considering it's running leopard, and os x has had file vault, secure erase, etc... for some time now it's not difficult to imagine the iphone either will have those features on launch, or could easily have them enabled.

also keep in mind several of the new communication features of leopard server. encrpyed ichat server, server side logging of chats, caldav, exchange support, open directory etc... and that's the stuff they've announced. i'm fairly confident that come june we'll start hearing a lot more about a leopard server/iphone integration, things like push imap, that will make exchange look like... well windows xp to os x.

[sinstoic]

Apple iPhone is a camera phone and many workplaces do not allow camera phones! Does your workplace allow camera phones?

[Xapplimatic]

I have had three different iPods.. Not one of them have I had to change the battery on.. and they all still charge fine. I've never needed to change the battery on a cell phone either.. And I've never kept a cell phone longer than 18 months, so battery longevity has never been an issue. If a business would invest in iPhones for their employees (not a cheap phone), would they then become cheap and not also buy the Apple Care extended warrantees which would cover the batteries? I don't see batteries as an issue here.

[Rot'nApple]

iPhone is not going to sell to business users.

No MS Exchange support
No Blackberry support
No viewing and editing of MS Office docs
No real keyboard for heavy email users


...iPhone support for any of the above.

But the initial iPod, I bet, was not dreamed up as a way to exercise (Nike + iPod) or plug into your car's radio or become integrated into the audio system by auto companies during the manufacturing process of said auto, or seen as an educational device at colleges and possibly public schools or the possiblities of medical related uses let alone the morphing of the device into a audio/visual aid with future possiblities and of course just the word's "iPod" and "podcasting" into the lexicon of our language.

No, the initial iPod came out and I ranted about why the heck a computer company is even wasting it's time and resources with this stuff! Glad someone had better vision then I.

Maybe better business support will come along in the future. Maybe not.

The iPhone will sell to young people with alot of disposable income (or rich parents)

I don't think Steve will worry about the young people and I don't think that's his ultimate target. Most kids today have an iPod in one hand and a cell phone in the other, so merging the two products only made sense with regards to that demographic.

But notice the way Steve talked about the iPhone during it's introduction at MacWorld and compared it's functionality or ease of use with regards to all the other smartphones that one typically thinks of when thinking of a smartphone brand to use for business. If Steve's just wanted to target a lot of rich kids with a married device of an iPod/Cell phone he could have demoed it that way.

I think the Rich kids are already considered in the bag. I think, in some form, the business market is on Apple's radar screen. I won't even begin to possibly fathom how Apple will do it, but then again, I poo-pooed the iPod and never dreamed of the software applications of iTunes jukebox or the advent of the iTunes Music store now selling music, ibooks, podcasts, music videos, tv shows, movies...

So I say, let's just wait until the product is out there. Let's just see what finished software apps are on the phone at the time of release and what's in the pipeline and let's visit this discussion again in five years and see where everything stands.

That's my take at least.

[peestandingup]

This will not end up being much better than the default Apple supplied apps. As it stands now, the iPod is barely, barely open to developers, and only then a very small subset with money. There is absolutely no way for smaller developers to get a foothold in it.

Look at the selection you have now. There are currently 12 official games available for the iPod. That's ridiculous. Apple has very publicly chosen the select few developers to make those games, and not let anyone else in the race - even very skilled and accomplished companies that would have made killer games 50 times what they have now.

Plus Apple takes care of the sale of these apps. I can only image the petty share the developer gets out of that $4.99 for an iPod game.

So no, an Apple-controlled "marketplace" or approved apps will not make it a platform that people will develop for. Anyone that does anything besides email and web browsing on a normal Mac uses umpteen shareware type products daily. Really, look through your computer and check out the number of shareware apps you have and use all the time that were created by a smaller company with less than a million-dollar annual income [figure picked from the sky, you know what I mean]. Some of the best programs available and most used programs on the Mac were and are made by small developers with 1-5 people. Those companies would not stand a chance in an Apple-controlled iPhone world...
Agreed. I dont know why there arent more games for the iPod by now. Seems with even the developers they have at this point, they would put more out there.

True, the iPhone will not be able to compete with a high end Windows Mobile device for business use, Exchange, etc. Its just not that type of deal.

However, the quote from the MS rep said it wouldnt be able to open Word files, even though they dont have the slightest clue whether it will or wont. Its an asinine comment. We all know damn well that the phone is running a mobile version of OSX & last I checked, OSX CAN open/create word docs straight outta the box using text editor. Word doc files (not the Word program itself) is a standard, so if Apple doesnt build support in the phone (which im sure they will), then an approved 3rd party will.

Oh, and MS saying "Even using it as a heavy messaging device will be a challenge" just shows they are either blind, stupid, or just plain scared. Messaging is CLEARLY a strong point with this device.

[donlphi]

I think these analysts have it wrong. How many people seriously edit, or for that matter even view, an office document on one of these devices?

Of course that goes against what MS is trying to advocate with the whole windows mobile media blitz.

Personally its one of those things, you think you need it, but never use it...

I agree. I have a sprint pocket PC with MS word, excel, etc. and I can count on 1 hand how many times I've NEEDED to use these apps. I have used these apps because I was bored, but I thought trying to type a letter on the device was just annoying. Squinting is not the a good way to do work.

The only thing I could see holding me back from buying an iPHONE is the lack of a "SLINGBOX" like app. It is a travel necessity. I'm hoping with Leopard coming out and Apple TV entering living rooms around the world, they will allow users to stream all of that media (it would certainly make up for the lack of HD space).

The pieces are in place. Keep your fingers crossed.

:D

[phillipjfry]

Apple iPhone is a camera phone and many workplaces do not allow camera phones! Does your workplace allow camera phones?

I haven't heard that the iPhone will have a camera in it? I haven't heard alot of the things that people have mentioned.
Can't we just wait till the thing comes out, or at the very least WWDC, until we start deciding how bad what direction the iPhone is going??
:)
Everything about every product from every company is up in the air until it sits right there on your desk.
Unless my gf gets a job at cingular (why do i have to leave my job?? :D ) I see myself watching everyone else with the iPhone rev1 for the first year or so. That's when things will get interesting seeing how Apple handles itself working with AT&T, yahoo, google, and 3rd parties trying to keep up with this thing. :)

[quandmeme]

As a whole I think you are on target, with the issues and the solutions. I just hope (1) Apple is listening, and (2) there is time to have this addressed to at least and announceble degree by June.

I'm just getting out of grad school so I won't be in on the iPhone 1.0, but I hope it doesn't Newton/Zune before 2.0 is out. I'm in love. (I'm not sure if Newton is a verb, but I'm sure zune will be :p )

[TheBobcat]

I don't know why this ability to edit MS Documents keeps coming up. I mean, yeah, read them as attachments, I can see that, but who really does any editing on a phone? I know a lot of people with the ability, but most just read. If they want to edit it, they either call the person who made it and tell them to or make a note of it and deal with it when they get to their laptop. I don't think its a deal breaker.

But iPhone is definitely not made with large-scale business in mind. It could work for it, but it is designed as a smartphone for the average person who normally wouldn't care about MS Exchange servers. AT&T marketing it to a group that it wasn't intended for just further proves the complete incompetence of AT&T and their marketing department (for starters, things such as dropping Cingular's name).

[Analog Kid]

I think most businesses would be happy to not have non-essential apps loaded on the phone. I don't know of any reason TextEdit wouldn't run on an iPhone to read basic Word docs, and I don't think opening Office docs is a big deal. I'm using my Mac with an Exchange server right now, and I don't understand why everyone seems to think the iPhone won't be able to. Push? Maybe that's something.

This will probably change, but I have no doubt that AT&T will find a way to completely ****** this up the way they always do. They are a reactive company, not proactive.
Not true. AT&T has proactively screwed me over on several occasions...

[TheBobcat]

Not true. AT&T has proactively screwed me over on several occasions...

I think everyone has a story on why they loathe a telcom. Unfortunately, they're all pretty much equal opportunity offenders.

[Curtis72]

My company doesn't allow camera's at work. A lot of companies have the same rule. So no iPhone for me until Apple produces a version of it without one. And 24GB would be nice!

[csubear]

Something just dawned on me as to why the iphone is not going to allow un-approved 3rd party app.

Apple wants to iphone to be easy to use right? This means no username/password. This means the default log in is running as root (or some approximation). This means that any app 'installed' could have complete controller over the system. Is this why apple is not allowing 3rd party? To control potential malware?

[Stella]

The vast majority of companies have Exchange servers ( or compatible ) already.


Exchange is expensive. Start with $700 for the application itself. Then add about $67 per user for the CALs. Then add another $3000 - $4000 for a nice server to run it on. Depending on the size of your company, that's some serious money.


Reliability has nothing to do with Apple restricting the third party iPhone environment.

I've *never* had dropped / missed calls due to third party software on my smartphone ( Symbian device ). The only time I have lost data is of the very rare occurrence that an application crashes. Apple doesn't restrict 3rd party applications for Macs over reliability concerns and people lose data every day on their Macs due to an application crash. Losing data on your Mac is more likely to have more of an impact than losing data on your iPhone.

Apple's reasoning for not allowing 3rd party applications has little merit. To even suggest that you can take down an entire cell network due to 3rd party smartphone like SJ said is totally BS. Likewise, to suggest you'll have dropped / missed calls too is total BS. If the iPhone is affected in this way by 3rd party software then you have to question the quality of the iPhone software itself - i.e., Mobile OSX.

The iPhone will only be enriched by having an open 3rd party developer environment. There are a lot of companies that would support the iPhone, but whom cannot. You aren't forced to install 3rd party applications, and indeed, not many people do. However, this will change in the future.

The Apple Phone will be reliable because Apple locked it down. The unreliable business phone OS from Microsoft isn't good for business. Possible data loss and dropped phone calls isn't acceptable.


As many people have already point out, the iPhone simply lacks the functionality required for businesses, such as Exchange and Blackberry support, for starters. Currently the only use it is for business is a piece of eye candy.

To even ship a phone that doesn't have a replaceable battery is just unbelievable. Cell phone batteries rarely last for 2 years or more, and a lot of people keep their phones longer than the original battery. I'm more likely to have missed calls due to having to send in my iPhone into Apple ( or authorised dealer) for a battery replacement than due to dodgy 3rd party software!!!!

[Stella]

Apple iPhone is a camera phone and many workplaces do not allow camera phones! Does your workplace allow camera phones?

I think these type of companies are still in the very minority. How many people on here are in a workplace that disallow camera phones?

[jbernie]

Does anyone work for a company that buys them a US$400 or $500 ipod?

The users will scream for an iphone, the corporate purchasing people will be laughing that people think they need it and crying for putting up with people continually asking for it.

The internet part I would rate higher than most other phone devices simply because it appears to have the bigger screen which makes surfing easier. However, the battery life kills that fast.

The device is 'cool' for now, Apple to my knowledge has been wise and not been proclaiming the iphone as the must have device for the business world. The ipod portion alone says it is consumer orientated only. However, we all know that once a device is must have people will want one for work.

Unfortunately the lack of integration with existing business software makes this an over glorified phone with a stand alone calendar feature.

Apple should go with the same format for an ipod only device, and likewise an ipod free device to appeal to the corporate folks who buy devices. Also, US$500 phones aren't the greatest thing in the corporate world when you can buy 3 blackberrys for the same price.

[Fukui]

3rd party apps are more than just MS Office viewer/editors. If you've ever owned a Palm you know what I mean. Games, scientific applications, finance utilities, etc etc etc etc. There are limitless possibilities if they opened up the API for the phone.
Asynchronous XML + Javascript is quite satisfactory for many projects, as corporations move their custom apps web-based.It has the added benefit of making more applications device agnostic, perhaps something apple thought about when designing their device.

[csubear]

I've *never* had dropped / missed calls due to third party software on my smartphone ( Symbian device ).


I have. Nokia 3650. Didn't like taking calls while i played doom.

[GregA]

How many people seriously edit, or for that matter even view, an office document on one of these devices?

I wonder if we could "synchronise" our documents to the iPhone, but have the Mac automatically "convert for iPhone" (like it can with movies) by creating a pdf version of the word document?

also keep in mind several of the new communication features of leopard server. encrpyed ichat server, server side logging of chats, caldav, exchange support, open directory etc... and that's the stuff they've announced.

Ultimately we need some better "exchange-like" services for calendaring, contacts, & email management. I believe Apple is working on that for the Mac (check out Apple's Teams info from
http://www.macsimumnews.com/index.php/archive/of_the_enterprise_leopard_and_teams/ ), but I'm not sure what Apple could do on Windows.

The ipod portion alone says it is consumer orientated only. <snip>
Apple should go with the same format for an ipod only device, and likewise an ipod free device to appeal to the corporate folks who buy devices.

I'd like to see an iPod widescreen video with the same form factor as the iPhone. This would also divert some of the demand for the iPhone which would be useful if there is huge demand (as some articles are saying!)

[koobcamuk]

Microsoft is gonna make themselves look stupid in a few months ...

I thought they've looked stupid for years...

[panamajack]

As the battery is CHARGABLE, who cares whether or not it's removable?

Your joking right ? Even the causal business user would quickly use most of the iPhone's juice during their transit commute to work, let alone making it useful for business trips, when one would expect to be far away from their charger for extended periods of time.

My Powerbook has a replaceable battery; assuming the iPhone's battery will have a similar capacity (while using the devices full capacities ) then having a replacable battery makes tons of sense! Hell, cell phones that hold a charge for three days have replaceable battteries ! What a ridiculous comment.

[Belly-laughs]

Your joking right ? Even the causal business user would quickly use most of the iPhone's juice during their transit commute to work, let alone making it useful for business trips, when one would expect to be far away from their charger for extended periods of time.

My Powerbook has a replaceable battery; assuming the iPhone's battery will have a similar capacity (while using the devices full capacities ) then having a replacable battery makes tons of sense! Hell, cell phones that hold a charge for three days have replaceable battteries ! What a ridiculous comment.

A piggyback power solution is tidier, quicker than separate batteries…

[glowingstar]

that craaazy microsoft!!

if *I* owned $150 million in a company's stock, i sure as hell wouldn't talk smack about that company! i think i'd want them to be successful so my stock would go UP! :D

[dnedved]

That's what it all comes down to, and that's why those horrible RIM devices are so popular. The average corporate drone has no choice on their email -- they have to use their company's exchange server. If the iPhone has seamless integration (with calendars, meeting invites, all that crap) business users will flock to it. If it doesn't they can't and won't. It's that simple.

Seeing as Apple doesn't have that sort of integration on their full-size computers with their full-size OS, do you really think they'll debut that on this little device?

Of course that could tie in interestingly with the rumors that apple is looking into combining mail, calendar, and address book apps together in OSX...

[skinnylegs]

Without out it, you'll be stuck with an addressbook, and a few other simplistic programs that in practice do little more than a $20 Nokia I see where you're going and I 'kinda agree.

I'm immersed in Mac hardware and software so it really doesn't bother me. I'll be a happy camper if the iPhone syncs with iCal and Address Book. That said, it does render it less desireable to non-Mac users who run different PIM software. Actually, a lot of Mac users run other PIM software. Hmmm.....

Of course that could tie in interestingly with the rumors that apple is looking into combining mail, calendar, and address book apps together in OSX...If this is true it may make for a bit of an awkward period of time post iPhone release/pre-Leopard release.

If the iPhone has seamless integration (with calendars, meeting invites, all that crap) business users will flock to it.This is a huge deal to a guy like me. I own a small company and the abiltiy to have access to my complete customer datablase and calendar without lugging around a laptop is huge. I get 20-30 calls a day and when I'm out in the field without my laptop it is a bit of a hassle that usually requires a return phone call.

[GregA]

that craaazy microsoft!!

if *I* owned $150 million in a company's stock, i sure as hell wouldn't talk smack about that company! i think i'd want them to be successful so my stock would go UP! :D
Microsoft bought that (2&#37;?) of Apple many years ago, and sold it later for a tidy profit. Good on them :)

ps. Apple is worth 40 times as much now, than when MS bought in (I think)

[dnedved]

I think these analysts have it wrong. How many people seriously edit, or for that matter even view, an office document on one of these devices?

I agree with you, but maybe a more important question is "how many people buy a Pocket PC device because they THINK they'll use that feature?" I think 50% of Pocket PC's early wins over Palm were because of that feature. And you're right, they ended up not doing it at all.

[imacdaddy]

AT&T to Target iPhone to Business

I think that is a mistake. It should be "AT&T to ALSO Target iPhone to Business"

The iPhone is a combination of 3 products. It will appeal to everyone...not just businesses.

[imacdaddy]

Your joking right ? Even the causal business user would quickly use most of the iPhone's juice during their transit commute to work, let alone making it useful for business trips, when one would expect to be far away from their charger for extended periods of time.

There's going to be loads of external battery packs available for these emergencies. I'm gonna go out on a limb and say we will see something from Belkin since there are external battery packs available for iPods today.

[mstecker]

Funny, it's acceptable today for the thousands of large companies that allow access to their email systems through Blackberry Enterprise Server or through GoodLink.

It's as simple as this: Unless and until Apple strikes as deal with RIM or Good (now Motorola - hah!) to bundle their software in the iPhone, it won't be an option for most corporate users.

The Apple Phone will be reliable because Apple locked it down. The unreliable business phone OS from Microsoft isn't good for business. Possible data loss and dropped phone calls isn't acceptable.

[Vorst]

Microsoft is right about
- exchange/blackberry/office compatibility, it is essential for business users.
At the other hand the iPhone change the way we work with Smart phones.
Apple only aims at 1% of the market next year.
Apple never said it is a closed system. (they will certify the 3rd party software, to avoid instability).
In the beginning iPhone may have some incomplete solution, but I'm sure this is solved by year end, just at period the logical thinking business man starts to recognize this iPhone.

I'm also a commercial guy, when I start to talk too much about my competition, it means I'm worried about them. Also I always loved when my competitors told people that our technology didn't work, then I showed my secret trick ....
Also you can be sure that Microsoft and others will try to play copy machine to catch up with Apple invention.

[Mac Fly (film)]

Well seen as practically every consumer on this planet already knows about and kinda wants an iPhone, it seems logically to tell business customers about it too. They could market this thing towards their grandmothers left boob and it would still sell like very hot cakes. Everytime I look at the keynote in iTunes even now, it still fails to disappoint me, it's simply amazing, purly amazing! :eek:

[JNB]

They could market this thing towards their grandmothers left boob and it would still sell like very hot cakes.


Now there's a picture that will haunt me the rest of the day. :eek:

[Stella]

Yes.

Quite saggy!


Now there's a picture that will haunt me the rest of the day. :eek:

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mac Fly (film)
They could market this thing towards their grandmothers left boob and it would still sell like very hot cakes.

[Sean7512]

See below...its amazing, does ANYONE even watch the keynote??? It says "MS Exchange" clear as day, or am I hallucinating? What do you guys think?

[dernhelm]

It all depends on what AT&T means by "businesses"....

Fortune 150 companies? I don't see a lot of in-roads here. Blackberries sell because they integrate with Exchange servers (no one really cares if they allow anyone to work with Office formatted files, BTW, that is far too painful). But being able to interface with their corporate e-mail while on the road is invaluable.

Now switch the focus. Imagine a commercial where the Fortune 150 executive looking harried in a power suit is using a Blackberry to stay on top of business while waiting at a gate in the airport. You see him squinting and making small pecking motions at his ridiculously small keyboard in order to "seal the deal". During this time, he gets a call, and after he hangs up, you see him cursing under his breath as he tries to locate his incomplete his e-mail.

Meanwhile some young smartly dressed guy sits down next to him with earbuds in enjoying some song and looking relaxed. He gets a call, pulls out his iPhone and answers it. "Oh hi Jerry! <small talk>. You need more detail on that proposal? Hang on, let me see if Bonnie is available". Switches out and conferences in Bonnie. Bonnie answers some questions and agrees to mail him an altered proposal. "The man cuts in and says go ahead and mail it directly to me, I'll approve it and pass it along.".

While he's still on the original call, he gets the mail from Bonnie, adds his 2 cents, and forwards it along to Jerry. "You should see it in the next couple of minutes.". They talk a little more small talk, setting up a chance to do dinner or something (maybe bouncing out to a web browsing app to find a good place to eat), when Jerry gets his e-mail, says it's exactly what he was looking for, and seals the deal on the phone. When he hangs up, the music resumes.

Meanwhile, power-suit guy finally finishes his e-mail. He calls the person he sent it to, finds out it was accepted, but he may need a few small alterations, and ends the call looking more like he crossed the finished line after a long race, than anything.

The point is, is that the small entrepeneuers may not need Exchange server support or Microsoft Office document support, but they still need to be able to work from the road. The iPhone is the tool for the small business owner that uses tools like Yahoo small business e-mail, but still needs to stay connected.

[dernhelm]

See below...its amazing, does ANYONE even watch the keynote??? It says "MS Exchange" clear as day, or am I hallucinating? What do you guys think?

Wow! Missed that completely!
:eek:

[MacVault]

Microsoft is right about - exchange/.../office compatibility, it is essential for business users...

Well, maybe Microsoft should stop being so hypocritical and open their "closed" technologies BEFORE they bash on Apple for making a "closed" iPhone.

[rubberduck007]

Your joking right ? Even the causal business user would quickly use most of the iPhone's juice during their transit commute to work, let alone making it useful for business trips, when one would expect to be far away from their charger for extended periods of time.

My Powerbook has a replaceable battery; assuming the iPhone's battery will have a similar capacity (while using the devices full capacities ) then having a replacable battery makes tons of sense! Hell, cell phones that hold a charge for three days have replaceable battteries ! What a ridiculous comment.


I've never had to replace or carry a spare battery (Samsung E900) and my phone gets some serious usage in a day (calls, texts and surfing) - it will still go 3-4 days before running low so I think the replacable battery complaint is not really valid as yet... see how long it lasts, otherwise plug it in to charge while at work/or get a car charger!

[diamond.g]

Do business customers include government? Most government agencies I have came into contact with, don't allow phones with cameras on the premises if there is classified data around. Which is why Nextel/Sprint is very popular, who else offers a whole line of phones with no camera?

Shoot we all know how the government spends money on not needed things, it would be an easy target for Apple as long as it supports certificates (for signed and encrypted email), can have mail from Exchange pushed to it (replacing blackberry) and has no camera.

[granex]

I don't know why everyone is getting so bent out of shape. If things go as they appear, you simply won't be able to get an iPhone for a while while the early adopters line up to fork over their money. Apple can move pretty fast (especially since we are mostly talking about software here), and so I would expect the next generation iPhone to come out within six months. This may indeed be a more business oriented phone, but right now Apple will be fine with getting this thing out the door as currently promised.

If it works as advertised, then they will sell a ton and be well set up for the long term. They don't need to solve every problem right now, they just need to not screw up this one big chance.

I also don't see why so many are saying that people won't give up their Blackberries. This is a very recent addiction it seems to me. Blackberry helped to define the current market space, but it is new enough that it can be done better/differently and be quickly swept off the scene (see Osborne portable computers).

[davidmaxwaterma]

Microsoft is gonna make themselves look stupid in a few months when there are indeed apps that'll open/create word files & when other 3rd party apps are released for iPhone.

Saying that the user "cannot install applications on" the device is just stupid of them to even say. Oh, really Microsoft?? Last time I checked, no one said you wont be able to install apps on the phone, just that they will have to pass Apple's tests, like the iPod games are now.

How 'bout shuttin' up until we know the specifics, MS??

Right, and almost every other phone OS requires some form of testing before they'll allow it installed.

S60 (now) needs the majority of applications to be signed (even freeware) which requires testing. End users can still install such applications though.

Brew (v.common in US and Japan) is even more restrictive, requiring over-the-air downloads, IINM.

Don't know/care about MS Windows...

[AidenShaw]

I think these type of companies are still in the very minority. How many people on here are in a workplace that disallow camera phones?

http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2004-01-12-phones_x.htm

"Some major employers are banning camera phones on the job amid growing fears the high-tech gadgets pose serious threats to workers' privacy and company secrets.
The phones, which average about $150, allow users to take pictures and transmit them globally.

Companies fear employees will use the phones to send images of new products or other company information, or else to take pictures of unsuspecting co-workers in locker rooms or bathrooms."

[pilotError]

Apple's reasoning for not allowing 3rd party applications has little merit. To even suggest that you can take down an entire cell network due to 3rd party smartphone like SJ said is totally BS. Likewise, to suggest you'll have dropped / missed calls too is total BS.

I think your dead on with regards to 3rd party support.

Knowing now that they cannibalized the Leopard team to work on iPhone, they probably didn't want to deal with 3rd party support while building the initial product. Its tough enough finding / fixing your own bugs, but having to research 3rd party bugs was probably too much for them to handle. I'm sure they didn't want the bad back-channel press either.

Once the platform stabilizes, I think you'll see an SDK show up. You can bet that the Hacker community will be going nuts to crack this thing open.

[Porchland]

I agree... Also, Blackberry and MS has championed PUSH email. As far as I know, iPhone only supports pull-type email (IMAP). That is the first thing big business is going to look for, and when they see it isn't present, they will pass.

That is, unless Apple is building push-email support into it and we don't know it yet...

Compatibility with Exchange will be the No. 1 factor for MANY businesses. No matter how good the iPhone is, companies are not going to dump Treos and Blackberries that talk to ActiveSync for iPhones that don't.

I'm hoping Leopard's Mail will include much better Exchange integration than Tiger.

[pilotError]

"Some major employers are banning camera phones on the job amid growing fears the high-tech gadgets pose serious threats to workers' privacy and company secrets.
The phones, which average about $150, allow users to take pictures and transmit them globally.

Companies fear employees will use the phones to send images of new products or other company information, or else to take pictures of unsuspecting co-workers in locker rooms or bathrooms."

We have these policies too, I've never seen them enforced though. We've had these policies before there were camera phones.

How many companies (non-gov't) enforce the policy?

[macspeedy]

...Apple never said it is a closed system. (they will certify the 3rd party software, to avoid instability). ...
They can't allow users installing 3rd party software because then everybody would use Skype or some other VoIP software when there's WiFi available and not pay ridiculously high cellular phone fees.

First they'll ditch Cingular, then they'll allow installing (and maybe include a full version of iChat), wait and see :D

[Stella]

Right, and almost every other phone OS requires some form of testing before they'll allow it installed.

S60 (now) needs the majority of applications to be signed (even freeware) which requires testing. End users can still install such applications though.

Brew (v.common in US and Japan) is even more restrictive, requiring over-the-air downloads, IINM.

Don't know/care about MS Windows...

Symbian has a good comprise. For your average shareware / freeware application, you can self sign because these applications tend not to delve too deeply into firmware and thus doesn't require many privileges.

However, for more complex applications that require more privileges, and consequently, may be more of a risk, security wise, you have to get your application certified.

I believe thats how it works - some one correct me please.

Symbian's security model in Symbian 9.x is rather good, actually, the best of the lot, of all smartphone OSs, IMO.

[dernhelm]

http://www.usatoday.com/money/workplace/2004-01-12-phones_x.htm

"Some major employers are banning camera phones on the job amid growing fears the high-tech gadgets pose serious threats to workers' privacy and company secrets.
The phones, which average about $150, allow users to take pictures and transmit them globally.

Companies fear employees will use the phones to send images of new products or other company information, or else to take pictures of unsuspecting co-workers in locker rooms or bathrooms."

I was also reading that there were companies banning laptops with webcams as well. That doesn't bode well for iSight enabled MacBook and MacBook Pros. If Apple cares about these markets, it will need to offer a "no camera" option on all their systems.

Since I've seen no evidence of such a move, I can only assume that Apple is not concerned about sales into those types of companies.

[Stella]

This isn't much different now - you can use VIOP on many smartphones, i.e., Nokia E-series / some N-series with WIFI.. However, if you buy your phone on contract, you can bet the operator has disabled VOIP, like Vodaphone did with the N95.

Instead, buy the phone outright and it won't be been crippled.


They can't allow users installing 3rd party software because then everybody would use Skype or some other VoIP software when there's WiFi available and not pay ridiculously high cellular phone fees.

First they'll ditch Cingular, then they'll allow installing (and maybe include a full version of iChat), wait and see :D

[macspeedy]

Now if the iPhone was only available without contract...
If I ever get one then surely not a crippled down version.
Off topic? I don't think so: business users would appreciate VoIP, too. At least my company would...

This isn't much different now - you can use VIOP on many smartphones, i.e., Nokia E-series / some N-series with WIFI.. However, if you buy your phone on contract, you can bet the operator has disabled VOIP, like Vodaphone did with the N95.

Instead, buy the phone outright and it won't be been crippled.

[iMosaic]

It's amazing how many complaints there are about a phone that is not even out yet. I can only guess these are the whinings of people that really want the iPhone but their business or spouse won't let them get it!:( If i remember right, the only part Jobs compared the iPhone and they other smartphones were the unsightly buttons. iPhone is a clean interface that adapts to the application as needed. I for one, hope the marketing stays how Apple plans. The wider the market the more demand. And we all know about supply and demand. I don't want to wait several more months for more iPhones to be available, ie PS3!

[Stella]

I don't ever remember saying your post was off topic!

In some countries, Apple may be forced to sell an unlocked version due to local laws.
Result: Grey Imports!

Now if the iPhone was only available without contract...
If I ever get one then surely not a crippled down version.
Off topic? I don't think so: business users would appreciate VoIP, too. At least my company would...

[Rocketman]

How 'bout shuttin' up until we know the specifics, MS??

I don't want them to shut up! Ever since that internal MS letter was released declaring the Mac vastly superior to Wintel generally, the whining has been really entertaining. Especially from a "declared monopolist".

Among my first posts on ATN I said it was a superior business device "if" the software they already use is supported even if by clone.

I am betting the product lifecycle is closer to that of an iPod (about a year) than a Mac (6-10 months). Steevie specifically talked about "freezing hardware" and adding features via software over time. It is handy to remember how excited he was to give the iPhone demo at MWSF. Several times he said "isn't this cool?"

Rocketman

[whooleytoo]

Microsoft is surely right. ALL business users are identical and have identical needs :rolleyes:

And they're absolutely right. We do all have identical needs, and those needs are Microsoft applications. If you don't use them, you're not a business user. And if you're not a business user, you shouldn't even be in an office. Oh, and hand in your smartphone at reception on the way out, because you clearly have no idea what you do for a living...

(:p !)

[aristobrat]

I'd really be surprised if Cingular is doing much more than making sure they can provide the iPhone to their "valued" major-business accounts...

... not that the iPhones sold would necessarily be used for business.

I'd be very surprised of some of our C + V level executives don't come to our telecom dept asking them to order an iPhone for their kids/wife.

[sactown]

I think that limiting the amount of third party software will end up being a costly mistake. For instance, I am a medical student, and the vast majority of medical students and doctors use some sort of hand held device with specialized medical applications installed on them. Some schools require their students to purchase a device in order to have that software. If apple does not make some of those programs available, I think they will be missing out on a huge market.

[peharri]

Reminds me of back when AT&T Wireless (now a part of Cingular, which ironically is being rebranded to AT&T, hence the wording of the headline) started promoting their new GSM network. They pulled the same BS, promoting it as a way for high-powered business execs/salespeople on the move to stay in contact, using GPRS to access their e-mail from remote places like airports.

The sheer stupidity of the campaign, which was wrong on so many levels, amazed me:


AT&T already had something called Pocketnet that ran exactly like GPRS in terms of remote access to email. It was never made clear how GSM/GPRS was "new". GPRS was actually significantly more expensive at the time, and coverage was poor.
They completely alienated the early-adopters: computing people interested in mobile Internet connections had to go through the business serving part of AT&T to get any answers
GPRS has never been exactly fast, and it was billed by several cents to the kilobyte. It really wasn't a viable technology for downloading your secretary's email containing the latest version of the 4M promotional Powerpoint presentation. GSM did have an established moderate-speed data technology at the time called HSCSD (High Speed Circuit Switched Data, not to be confused with HSDPA) that would have at least provided ISDN speed access, but AT&T didn't want to implement it for reasons that are unclear to this day.

A few months later, presumably because AT&TWS wanted to throw out its AMPS/D-AMPS network, they finally "got-it", and started marketing GSM at everybody.

I think these kinds of things are a failure of marketing people. They always seem to assume the target audience for any product to do with communications are some mobile business-people. Computer enthusiasts, despite their willingness to buy into entirely new technologies and who aren't dependent upon some company sponsor that also needs convincing, are frightening and scary to the marketing departments of your average telecommunications company.

This is why the telecommunications industry screwed up Internet access from 1993 to 2001 so incredibly badly.

Now here's the GOOD news: the iPhone doesn't need Cingular to promote it. Apple is also going to be heavily promoting it, and they're doing it today. The only way Cingular can screw this up is if they don't make a consumer talk plan available that's viable for iPhone use.

[orbital]

um partnership with Google... duh
Just open your browser and login to Google docs. Thats the benifit of a full version of safari on the system.

[Stella]

um partnership with Google... duh
Just open your browser and login to Google docs. Thats the benifit of a full version of safari on the system.

On WIFI it'll be OK, but otherwise, since the iPhone doesn't support 3G yet, using Google Docs will be painfully slow.

Safari needs work since it doesn't yet work correctly with Google Docs. This may have changed in the nightly builds of webkit.

As good as Safari is, its still lacking in some areas.

[asphalt-proof]

we don't know one way or the other. apple has let very little about the phone other than the gee-whiz features be known, all else is speculation. considering it's running leopard, and os x has had file vault, secure erase, etc... for some time now it's not difficult to imagine the iphone either will have those features on launch, or could easily have them enabled.

also keep in mind several of the new communication features of leopard server. encrpyed ichat server, server side logging of chats, caldav, exchange support, open directory etc... and that's the stuff they've announced. i'm fairly confident that come june we'll start hearing a lot more about a leopard server/iphone integration, things like push imap, that will make exchange look like... well windows xp to os x.

I think the point that is being made is that businesses are not going to dump their MS Exchange servers just so that the CEO can have the coolest phone is in the boardroom. The Leopard Server looks great but its going to take awhile for market penetration. Meanwhile, the iPhone will lack MS Exchange support (so far as we know) and that is going to be a big knock against it in the business community. Actually the business community, education, political... these spheres all rely on either Blackberry or Exchange for their push email solutions. Yahoo just doesn't cut it. It will for the high school/ college kid but not someone who has to be in contact with their corporate email.
Apple could easily rectify this by licensing Blackberry and have Exchange support built in. Will it happen? Probably not. I think this article should be taken like all other articles written by analysts: Printed then promptly thrown away.

[Maccus Aurelius]

I don't know what you guys are talking about. My iPhone works great. Oh...wait. :rolleyes:

[feffer37]

Oh man Microsoft, I totally see the error in my ways!

As a small businessman, I sure won't need that underperforming iPhone!

I sure as hell won't use it for full

[feffer37]

Oh man Microsoft, I totally see the error in my ways!

As a small businessman, I sure won't need that underperforming iPhone!

I sure as hell won't use it for full access to myspace, which I use to schedule bands to play at my record store! Nor will I be able to use it to contact my clientelle directly for my marketing and promotions!

And forget about managing my amazon.com store and ebay auctions for all that merchandise I put up there every month!

You can just kiss the possibility goodbye that I'd even THINK of using my Online Terminal Credit Card Processor at my booth at a Record/CD show! Heaven forbid!

Don't forget about all that email I'll be doing AWAY FROM THE COMPUTER and that worthless DIGITAL VOICEMAIL I sure won't need to manage all my contacts!

And if one thing is for certian, I certianly won't need it's ability to DO EVERYTHING ONLINE THAT I NEED TO DO TO RUN A BUSINESS AWAY FROM THE OFFICE! Special Orders! Product & Supply Orders! Product Research! Marketing Analysis.

Give me a Break Microsoft! The iPhone is THE Single most important piece of equipment I will be buying for my business this year! Quit poo-pooing something that you cannot possibly build effectively yourselves! Put your money where your mouth is and COMPETE, because I've got my checkbook ready, and I'm buying.

See you all in line @ the Apple Store. I'm out.

[kadajawi]

Oh man Microsoft, I totally see the error in my ways!

As a small businessman, I sure won't need that underperforming iPhone!

I sure as hell won't use it for full
You won't. Are you sure as a businessman, that you want a phone that stops working during an important phone call, because the battery is flat? And you can't do anything against it because opposing to other phones you can't simply take out the battery and replace it with a spare one?
There are many smartphones out there which let you go on the internet. That have decent screens, better battery life (+you can change the battery). They aren't that good as MP3/video player, sure, but then it's a business phone.

I recall reading an article about businessmen buying old Nokia phones at high prices, because they need a reliable, no frills phone that simply works and has a long battery life, and that is nearly indestructable?

Really, I think they are targetting the wrong audience. Just like the B&O Serene. It's a fashion phone, and I'd say it is more appealing to women than to men... but those marketing guys tried to sell it to men.

I won't buy the iPhone. I own a smartphone that has a similar battery life... but in my case Motorola was smart enough, they actually packed in a spare battery and a docking station where you could charge both batteries at the same time (one in the phone and one in a slot). Without that the phone would be useless. Really. Even with a second battery in the phone for emergencies I think its useless. Unless maybe that battery is able to keep at least the phone functions alive for a few days... which I doubt with such a big display etc.
That and limiting 3rd party software kills it for me, eventhough I love the interface. I enjoy reading books, and I'm using the Mobipocket Reader for that. It is available for many plattforms... but since Apple probably won't allow that... also the resolution of the screen could be higher.

The iPhone is a fashion thing, or something for gadget freaks. Or people who want one of the best MP3 players out there (at least interface wise... we will have to see how the sound quality is).

[garzaroger]

Everyone is forgetting Cisco, and I see that they can come up with the functionality of a dual Phone... Once you are in the corporate you make the calls via VoIP in the WI/FI network... and once you leave use GSM. Could add the IM, presence, etc.
So if Apple+ATT+Cisco pushes this types of services in the enterprise of course it´s going to succeed in IT

[Analog Kid]

um partnership with Google... duh
Just open your browser and login to Google docs. Thats the benifit of a full version of safari on the system.
I just love how companies won't allow camera-phones, but they'll let Google scan their draft documents...

[Stella]

I just love how companies won't allow camera-phones, but they'll let Google scan their draft documents...

Quite right!
In a previous company, Google toolbar and search was banned, due to the security risk.

[EagerDragon]

I think that limiting the amount of third party software will end up being a costly mistake. For instance, I am a medical student, and the vast majority of medical students and doctors use some sort of hand held device with specialized medical applications installed on them. Some schools require their students to purchase a device in order to have that software. If apple does not make some of those programs available, I think they will be missing out on a huge market.

You are correct, however the number of people in that position in comparison to the population of a country, lets say USA is not financialy significant.

Applications are coming if you use their API and have the software tested/certified by Apple and distributed via iTunes.

I could be wrong of course but I do not think Apple wants anyone to create applications and load them in the phone. Only a select number of vendors will be invited and they have to certify their software.

Apple has expressed concerns about stability, I think it is becuase this mini version of the OS may not be able to protect itself and the applications it runs like the full OS version would. It could be bacause of the lack of CPU support for something, (just a guess, memory protection?)

[EagerDragon]

Quite right!
In a previous company, Google toolbar and search was banned, due to the security risk.

In my company all software not installed by the company from one of its servers is banned.

[tribulation]

Something just dawned on me as to why the iphone is not going to allow un-approved 3rd party app.

Apple wants to iphone to be easy to use right? This means no username/password. This means the default log in is running as root (or some approximation). This means that any app 'installed' could have complete controller over the system. Is this why apple is not allowing 3rd party? To control potential malware?

That's probably the reason, but it's easily overcome by just putting in a simple checkbox in the phone's preferences, I'm sure there will be an overall "system settings" type of utility on the phone somewhere. Check the box, you get further settings [password, user, etc]. Comes defaulted to unchecked. That way unless you want to actively use that feature, you will never see it or even know it's there.

[tribulation]

Asynchronous XML + Javascript is quite satisfactory for many projects, as corporations move their custom apps web-based.It has the added benefit of making more applications device agnostic, perhaps something apple thought about when designing their device.

Yes this would work for very basic, mainly data driven apps. But for a solid, fast, and robust application, those languages are extremely simplistic compared to C/ObjC. Once you get out of the realm of having a simple database with some fields being viewed on the screen, you need a real OOP language. The most advanced application I can see with this approach is the most advanced OSX widget you can find. They're great for displaying a simple RSS feed or the weather. But more than that, and it's not really feasible.

[Stella]

That's probably the reason, but it's easily overcome by just putting in a simple checkbox in the phone's preferences, I'm sure there will be an overall "system settings" type of utility on the phone somewhere. Check the box, you get further settings [password, user, etc]. Comes defaulted to unchecked. That way unless you want to actively use that feature, you will never see it or even know it's there.

If this is really the case, mobile osx is seriously flawed, security wise.

[tribulation]

Right, and almost every other phone OS requires some form of testing before they'll allow it installed.

S60 (now) needs the majority of applications to be signed (even freeware) which requires testing. End users can still install such applications though.

Brew (v.common in US and Japan) is even more restrictive, requiring over-the-air downloads, IINM.


Right, except you aren't also running a Brew desktop OS on your Mac. Brew type phones and the like are a whole different, albeit un-evolved breed. The carriers control what you get sent over to your phone, the whole thing is cheesy, and as far as I know, no really useful or impressive Brew applications have ever been released.

I at least, think of the iPhone more of a Laptop/Mac/PDA rather than a phone. And in all 3 of the former, I can customize it and load the 3rd party applications I need directly to it. If Apple keeps their "approval only" approach, I guarantee that you will see no more than 10 "approved" applications in the next 1-2 years. Again, look at the iPod games selection. Even if they do open up approval more, it will most definitely be a process that small (and excellent) developers won't be able to get their hands on or ever have the chance to use.

[tribulation]

If this is really the case, mobile osx is seriously flawed, security wise.

Agreed :)

[pilotError]

I don't know what you guys are talking about. My iPhone works great. Oh...wait.

You didn't happen to Pick that up in the Fulton Mall did ya? ;) :D

[wnurse]

um partnership with Google... duh
Just open your browser and login to Google docs. Thats the benifit of a full version of safari on the system.

Hmm, the security implications of doing that is numerous. I'm a consumer and i wouldn't trust google docs with my documents.. why would i?.. what happens if i cannot access the network for some reason?... Can google gurantee absolute security?. What about data charges.. will it be free while i am uploading/downloading my document?. If i am using google apps, does that mean i am continuosuly connected to the google server, thus encuring unimaginable data charges (or does this mean i must get unlimited data plan)?.
What if i am a midsize business with 1000 employees.. do i have to get them all unlimited data plans just so they can do google docs?.

Google docs on a phone sounds like a good idea until you start to ask questions.

[aricher]

Pending Exchange push capabilities the CTO of my company has approved the purchase of 60 8 GB iPhones for our salespeople and upper management. There's been talk of them upgrading from older Blackberries but our CTO is holding off until full specs of the iPhone are solid. C'mon Apple - make it sync flawlessly with Exchange servers and you have a serious winner in the business community.

[capone2]

iPhone is not going to sell to business users.

No MS Exchange support
No Blackberry support
No viewing and editing of MS Office docs
No real keyboard for heavy email users

The iPhone will sell to young people with alot of disposable income (or rich parents)

it will....dont forget you are dealing with ATT they are huge in the corporate world.

[Analog Kid]

Pending Exchange push capabilities the CTO of my company has approved the purchase of 60 8 GB iPhones for our salespeople and upper management. There's been talk of them upgrading from older Blackberries but our CTO is holding off until full specs of the iPhone are solid. C'mon Apple - make it sync flawlessly with Exchange servers and you have a serious winner in the business community.
Why does Blackberry have such a lock on the market? Are there IP issues? The can't have a lock on the ability to push from Exchange, can they?

[Stella]

it will....dont forget you are dealing with ATT they are huge in the corporate world.

To do this, Apple will have to allow AT&T to develop applications - thus open up the iPhone to them. Maybe, this will happen, but its a lot of work.

[morespce54]

...
I have small clients, I consider them friends. I care more about the last episode of survivor than the stock market. My desktop picture will probably be a picture of my daughter playing at the beach or a picture of my wife's boobs. I am not important :) The iPhone is for me.

LOL!!! ;)

Okay, I was not sure about getting one but now, the way you put it, the iPhone is for me (too)! ;) :)

[Bosunsfate]

Microsoft is surely right. ALL business users are identical and have identical needs :rolleyes:

Ahem.

See below...its amazing, does ANYONE even watch the keynote??? It says "MS Exchange" clear as day, or am I hallucinating? What do you guys think?

Thank you for actually taking the time to get that picture. Its been pretty lame seeing how many people get this wrong.

Whats getting people is that you don't get the push from exchange server like a blackberry. But frankly, that's just temporary...you can still pull the email down, and soon to come will be a push system, even for Exchange.

[tribulation]

Thank you for actually taking the time to get that picture. Its been pretty lame seeing how many people get this wrong.

Whats getting people is that you don't get the push from exchange server like a blackberry. But frankly, that's just temporary...you can still pull the email down, and soon to come will be a push system, even for Exchange.

I have never used an exchange account, but from what I understand there is a lot more to it than just checking email. While the iPhone looks like it can check an exchange email account, what about the calendar/scheduling stuff, I wonder if they'll do anything with it.

[whooleytoo]

You won't. Are you sure as a businessman, that you want a phone that stops working during an important phone call, because the battery is flat? And you can't do anything against it because opposing to other phones you can't simply take out the battery and replace it with a spare one?
There are many smartphones out there which let you go on the internet. That have decent screens, better battery life (+you can change the battery). They aren't that good as MP3/video player, sure, but then it's a business phone.


Well, I for one never have a spare battery, since changing the battery means downtime and hanging up during that important phone call. I bring a charger with me, so instead of 2 charges with downtime in between, I can keep the phone going almost indefinitely without interruption. So the iPhone wouldn't (for me) lost out by not having an easily replaceable battery.

I'd agree that the media player aspect is largely a non-issue for most business users, though the large capacity is a plus. (Actually, for my company - software for the media/advertising industry - a media playing phone would be very useful if the iPhone has some kind of video-out capability - easier to bring a phone to meetings than a laptop).

Whether 3rd party applications ever appear or not, the file formats that the iPhone supports will be crucial. Good Flash support is crucial, given how powerful Flash is becoming these days.

It appeals to me as a business phone (compared to my recent phones) because of:
- Fast, responsive UI.
- Larger screen for reading text.
- Large storage capacity.
- Visual voicemail (not having to listen through dozens of messages to get at the one that matters, oh yes!)
- Gesture based UI. (not having to click tiny buttons in the corners with my stylus to scroll up and down, then click a tiny button to go to the next/previous document).
- Likelihood of excellent integration with iSync/iCal for contacts & schedules (this is, after all, a Mac site).

Negatives:
- Lack of 3G - the biggie.
- No push email - though not a major issue for me personally.

[Maccus Aurelius]

With regards to the battery, I think a big plus is that this iPhone will work with the sync cable/USB charger combo AND the various battery-powered chargers that we now use with iPods. And it's true that lots of people do not walk around with spare batteries. I know I sure don't, and I'm certain I'd forget to charge the spare. :o