New Apple iPhone Apps and Apple TV Updates to Come

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Apple made some interesting comments today during their Q2 Financial Results regarding their plans with the iPhone and Apple TV in the coming months.

The webcast was opened with a prepared statement, where Apple describes how they are planning to use subscription based accounting to document the income from the iPhone as well as the Apple TV. This means that income from these devices will be spread over a 24 month period from an accounting perspective.

Their reasoning behind the shift was due to plans to continue to develop new software features and "entirely new applications" and incorporate them into the iPhone. "We want to provide many of these new features and applications at no additional charge to users."

Similarly, they stated that periodic updates and enhancements will be provided at no charge to Apple TV customers.

Again, this has no effect on customer prices or purchasing and simply reflects a shift in internal accounting at Apple, but the plan for future updates and "new applications" for the iPhone to be delivered as free updates was somewhat revealing.

[05elstonc]

People need to realize this is a big deal. Apple got burned with the wireless N upgrade because of the accounting issues related to issuing new functionality on products whose revenue had already been fully realized. With this subscription model, it allows Apple to add new functionality without needing to charge for them. These will be "material" updates to iPhone. New Applications and new features over the life of the phone.

The other really cool part about all of this has to do with my solid belief that Apple has decided to keep the iPhone extremely tight. If you buy an iPhone at launch that phone will continue to be updated and will last more than 2 years since they are accounting for it over a 24 month period. This means you will not be screwed by buying an iPhone in the begining. The iPhone hardware is advanced enough to handle the new software apple will want to ship, and when 3G and more memory is added in new models the form factor will remain the same, and as new features are added the entire line will see the benefits. Unlike the iPod where 3g iPods cannot play the games or some of the other new iPod OS features.

[Multimedia]

Glad to hear they're planning on a lot of free updates to the iPhone service and the :apple: TV hardware.

[gwangung]

Glad to hear they're planning on a lot of free updates to the iPhone service and the :apple: TV hardware.

Nah, you're gonna hear a lot people whine about getting a beta-release of hardware....

[neutrino23]

This reinforces the argument that you can't judge the iPhone simply based on the available information. Apple is always conservative and undersells new products. It is quite possible, and today there was confirmation, that new features will be added in the near future. It may even be possible to adopt third party apps. We'll just have to wait and see. Recall that in January's keynote Steve pointedly remarked that fixed button sets don't allow you to add new features while a touch screen allows you to add new features.

[bigandtasty]

Ah Yes..... BIGANDTASTY :apple: Updates... This is a Good Thing!

[spotlight07]

This means you will not be screwed by buying an iPhone in the begining. The iPhone hardware is advanced enough to handle the new software apple will want to ship, and when 3G and more memory is added in new models the form factor will remain the same, and as new features are added the entire line will see the benefits. Unlike the iPod where 3g iPods cannot play the games or some of the other new iPod OS features.

So this means I get free updates to my iPhone and my aTV? If they did the accounting the other way they'd have to charge for it? How does this differ from free Mac OS X updates (like 10.4.x)? Sorry, I don't get it. I wasn't an accounting major in college. :D Debits and credits anyone? :eek:

[05elstonc]

This reinforces the argument that you can't judge the iPhone simply based on the available information. Apple is always conservative and undersells new products. It is quite possible, and today there was confirmation, that new features will be added in the near future. It may even be possible to adopt third party apps. We'll just have to wait and see. Recall that in January's keynote Steve pointedly remarked that fixed button sets don't allow you to add new features while a touch screen allows you to add new features.

Yep. Apple wants the iPhone hardware to be a simple slab that does not need updating as often as iPods do.

So this means I get free updates to my iPhone and my aTV? If they did the accounting the other way they'd have to charge for it? How does this differ from free Mac OS X updates (like 10.4.x)? Sorry, I don't get it. I wasn't an accounting major in college. :D Debits and credits anyone? :eek:

Yes, without the change they would have to charge for the updates, just like new versions of iLife or OSX. The software updates improve the existing codebase, it does not materially change the functionality of the software, it simply updates code without adding new major features.

[MacSA]

Did they say anything about computer hardware? :confused:

[FreeState]

iPhone as well as the Apple TV. This means that income from these devices will be spread over a 24 month period from an accounting perspective.

Interesting. So with todays earnings report only 1/24th of all :apple: TV's sold to date were included in the report. (The next report would have 3/24 - it was only out for 1 month in the current report.)

[mrweirdo]

So this means I get free updates to my iPhone and my aTV? If they did the accounting the other way they'd have to charge for it? How does this differ from free Mac OS X updates (like 10.4.x)? Sorry, I don't get it. I wasn't an accounting major in college. :D Debits and credits anyone? :eek:

I think it has something to do with more of a firmware update or something that improves the functionality of the hardware. Anyways thats my understanding. I'm sure someone will come along who's more knowledgeable on the matter.

[lizhersh]

IMHO, AAPL has assigned every-hand-on-deck to this project, is working like crazy to meet the June deadlines, and has now decided that it will deliver the most basic product to customer, and update it as they go. This is becoming a common tactic with large, unending IT projects. The stratgey is, deliver a stable, but "half baked" product, meet the project deadline, start generating cash, and then complete the project as you go. Waiting for a "Perfect" iPhone, with all the pre-planned features would probably have taken APPL into October for iPhone too.

I bet the same will apply to Leopard. \

[Doctor Q]

Might the accounting change be a sign that they are moving to subscription music?

It would also make sense if they were accounting for a share of income from iPhone service contracts.

[Dustinndiego]

This was inevitable! Look at the "home" page of the iPhone there is a ton of unused and unbalanced free real-estate on the display you had to know Apple would be add more apps, let the guessing game begin again.
I think this also has a lot to do with leopard being delayed, look for a ton of interopability with the new OS, i.e. Word Processing App (Pages) and Spreadsheet App (?Charts?) that are "desktop quality". Also put my money on GPS of some type to interface with the Google Maps.
Plus EnGadget posted an "internal" AT&T Document that reads "... no subsidies are being offered on the phone at this time." HERE IS THE KEY!!! I don't know how it could be more clear, NO SUBSIDIES at this time, Steve Jobs said that this price point of $499 and $599 was with a 2 year contract thus subsidized. There is the conflict if AT&T now says the $499 and $599 price reflect NO SUBSIDIES. My two year contract with Cingular is up but I am waiting for the iPhone to re-up, if I don't get a subsidy for the iPhone, I will use my subsidy on a different phone and sell it, using the money to help offset the cost of (subsidizing) the iPhone. Keywords "AT THIS THIS TIME. Expect a big dog Steve Jobs announcement with some added features release date and subsidy info around June maybe the 11th or Apple's World Wide Developer Conference.
Remember this phone is "Magic" and "Revolutionary" and "5 years ahead of the competition". Apple has put more behind this product than any other in its history and Steve Jobs said last October “Looking forward, 2007 is likely to be one of the most exciting new product years in Apple’s history.”
Apple is taking no prisoners in this one, and I can wait to see Steve Ballmers video reaction to the next round of announcements.
Remember this is just one man's opinion ;) (sorry about the spelling and grammar, I'm excited)

[longofest]

People need to realize this is a big deal. Apple got burned with the wireless N upgrade because of the accounting issues related to issuing new functionality on products whose revenue had already been fully realized. With this subscription model, it allows Apple to add new functionality without needing to charge for them. These will be "material" updates to iPhone. New Applications and new features over the life of the phone.

Apple didn't get "burned" with the 'N' upgrade in so far as they made it a PR fiasco. Even big accountants said that Apple's explanation didn't make any sense (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/25/prominent-accountants-blast-apples-1-99-802-11n-upgrade-reasoning/). However, if they want to change the way they report the sales of the iPhone and :apple: TV, I don't care.

The big news of the day is that it is confirmed that Apple is gonna be giving us free updates to the :apple: TV and the iPhone. Since I have an :apple: TV, I'm excited about that :D

[05elstonc]

Might the accounting change be a sign that they are moving to subscription music?

It would also make sense if they were accounting for a share of income from iPhone service contracts.

No. This has nothing to due with subscription music.

[Andrew D.]

That's interesting, good thing they are going to do so nonetheless.

[05elstonc]

This was inevitable! Look at the "home" page of the iPhone there is a ton of unused and unbalanced free real-estate on the display you had to know Apple would be add more apps, let the guessing game begin again.
I think this also has a lot to do with leopard being delayed, look for a ton of interopability with the new OS, i.e. Word Processing App (Pages) and Spreadsheet App (?Charts?) that are "desktop quality". Also put my money on GPS of some type to interface with the Google Maps.
Plus EnGadget posted an "internal" AT&T Document that reads "... no subsidies are being offered on the phone at this time." HERE IS THE KEY!!! I don't know how it could be more clear, NO SUBSIDIES at this time, Steve Jobs said that this price point of $499 and $599 was with a 2 year contract thus subsidized. There is the conflict if AT&T now says the $499 and $599 price reflect NO SUBSIDIES. My two year contract with Cingular is up but I am waiting for the iPhone to re-up, if I don't get a subsidy for the iPhone, I will use my subsidy on a different phone and sell it, using the money to help offset the cost of (subsidizing) the iPhone. Keywords "AT THIS THIS TIME. Expect a big dog Steve Jobs announcement with some added features release date and subsidy info around June maybe the 11th or Apple's World Wide Developer Conference.
Remember this phone is "Magic" and "Revolutionary" and "5 years ahead of the competition". Apple has put more behind this product than any other in its history and Steve Jobs said last October “Looking forward, 2007 is likely to be one of the most exciting new product years in Apple’s history.”
Apple is taking no prisoners in this one, and I can wait to see Steve Ballmers video reaction to the next round of announcements.
Remember this is just one man's opinion ;) (sorry about the spelling and grammar, I'm excited)

Great post. I would disagree that there will be a subsidy on the iPhone.

[Troyte83]

so doesthis mean there is going to be new features on the iPhone. if so then i just fell even more in love with it. is there also a possibility of storage capacity being upgraded. (8gb 16 gb)?

[aftk2]

No-brainer: the business/people directory search dashboard widget, complete with one-touch dialing, add to address book, etc.. It's so simple, and so easy for them to do...and yet none have done it!

Say goodbye, 411!

[mrthieme]

This to me is what is so great about the iPhone, it is completely soft and changes can be made at any time. New interfaces and apps whenever they come up can be implemented. I expect this will be an exciting product with Apple throwing so much in the way of resources behind it.

On a side note, today I had reason to use the calculator on my Razr, I believe it took 9 button presses to get to it. Everytime I catch a glimpse of that iPhone and envision osx on it my current phone grows more repulsive to look at and use. Come on June.

[brianus]

This is excellent news. Maybe iPhone will eventually have a shot at appealing to business types after all. So what if it doesn't support Office docs/Exchange now...

(and maybe, in a parallel universe, they'll update AppleTV and QuickTime to natively support *.avi and VIDEO_TS folders, too!)

[spotlight07]

... Steve Jobs said that this price point of $499 and $599 was with a 2 year contract thus subsidized. There is the conflict if AT&T now says the $499 and $599 price reflect NO SUBSIDIES...

The way I understood it was the 2 year contract was there as part of the deal to get Cingular on board as a partner with Apple & to develop the special voicemail, etc. Cell phones are easily "unlocked" these days so I'm sure that's what Cingular was worried about (though the iPhone might be difficult to change to another provider without losing voicemail and possibly other functionality, but we'll have to see). Apple doesn't want to devalue their products with subsidies, though like you said people are used to them and will find ways around it.

[mrthieme]

Apple is taking no prisoners in this one, and I can wait to see Steve Ballmers video reaction to the next round of announcements.
[/QUOTE]

Probably the same as last time, a halfhearted laugh, that nervous look in his eyes, some BS reasons why Apple doesn't matter. What a tool.

[arn]

Plus EnGadget posted an "internal" AT&T Document that reads "... no subsidies are being offered on the phone at this time." HERE IS THE KEY!!! I don't know how it could be more clear, NO SUBSIDIES at this time, Steve Jobs said that this price point of $499 and $599 was with a 2 year contract thus subsidized. There is the conflict if AT&T now says the $499 and $599 price reflect NO SUBSIDIES.

Steve Jobs said $499 and $599 with 2 year contract. he never said that it was with subsidies. people just assumed.

arn

[dmlogs]

Plus EnGadget posted an "internal" AT&T Document that reads "... no subsidies are being offered on the phone at this time." HERE IS THE KEY!!! I don't know how it could be more clear, NO SUBSIDIES at this time, Steve Jobs said that this price point of $499 and $599 was with a 2 year contract thus subsidized. There is the conflict if AT&T now says the $499 and $599 price reflect NO SUBSIDIES.

IMO another hint at possible future subsidies is the fact that the phone is locked to cingular / at&t and you can't take it over as an unlocked phone and stick your tmobile sim card in it or anything. An AT&T / Cingular 2 yr contract subsidy would not lower Apples profits from the phone, only cingulars. Also you must take in to account $500-600 for a phone is a huge cost above other phones for the common consumer in a market where most phones are between Free to $100 with a 2 yr contract.

I would think Cingular is paying apple a ton of money to get exclusive rights for cell service on the iphone, which would mean they will probably have some way of making the iphone more appealing to the average consumer, especially teenagers who are constantly buying ipods and new cellphones. the iphone combines these

[Ars Diaboli]

While I don't know the reason for doing Apple TV that way, I do remember that Cingular/ATT had to give up some monthly revenue on the 2-yr contracts to Apple. This is the most likely reason, accounting for the income as it accrues instead of on a cash basis.

This will lead to a modified statement, if I am hearing the report right. It appears that some of Apple's income is cash accounting (accounted when a sale is booked). This would create a hybrid statement if part were cash and part were on the accrual method.

And I do not for a minute think that the 'N' fiasco was due to accounting problems.

[roland.g]

Good to hear. As an Apple TV early adopter, many of us know that there are improvements that can be made within Apple TV software.

[Rocketman]

Steve Jobs said $499 and $599 with 2 year contract. he never said that it was with subsidies. people just assumed.

arn

During the conference call the only subsidy discussed was what AT&T will be paying TO APPLE to offer the service exclusively through them and let them exclusively sell such a popular and high priced piece of hardware in their stores.

There is no "subsidy" because there is a "reverse subsidy", even at the $599 price point and 50% gross margin :)

UPOD

Rocketman

[twoodcc]

Glad to hear they're planning on a lot of free updates to the iPhone service and the :apple: TV hardware.

me too. looking forward to getting an iPhone :cool:

[Ars Diaboli]

Now, It also stands to reason that Cingular will be able to offer cheaper plans for use of the iPhone. But somehow, I doubt that is going to happen.

Cingular has rollover minutes and a new text to everyone, ATT customers or not (but not incoming texts, these appear to still cost you (and I will stand corrected when someone can prove otherwise)). ATT has an all you can eat data plan, but it is expensive and not a quality communication venue, imho.

I believe that these will be required for optimization of the iPhone: a data plan, enrollment in the text service, and rollover (rollover comes standard). Now how much of that phone is really subsidized over the life of the contract.

My question is, is it reasonable to expect a monthly phone bill cut by 20% because I did not have to subsidize the cost of the new phone?

How much monthly revenue is Apple going to get from ATT? Is that 20% going to go to apple now? If so, I know of two companies that will have an increasing net revenue stream for 2007, Apple and ATT.

AAPL posted a $770MM net profit! And this is mainly because of new mac's. Wait till the iPhone hits!! Ye Gods! This stock will bump $150 and then split and possibly break $100 again by this time next year!!

[ShaneM]

Does anyone know if it will be possible for them to then add 3G support to the iPhone or is that a hardware thing? I know I'm gonna be locked in for 2 years so getting a non-3G phone when Jobs said he was going to release 3G devices in the future scares me.

[droz]

good, maybe they will actually push out some new firmware that will make the apple tv something more than a crappy paper weight.

[zwida]

Does anyone know if it will be possible for them to then add 3G support to the iPhone or is that a hardware thing? I know I'm gonna be locked in for 2 years so getting a non-3G phone when Jobs said he was going to release 3G devices in the future scares me.

It's a hardware thing. They could build the 3G chipset into the phone and activate it later (but they won't do that...).

[e28]

Deferring revenue for accounting I think has more to do with Apple hiding sales #'s for units of iPhones and AppleTV's and spreading the earnings increase over 2 years (less stock price volatility). They don't have to spread it out because they are offering free updates - that's just their excuse.

Nonetheless, it's certainly nice to hear that there will be functionality updates!

[Object-X]

So, this means the current AppleTV and the iPhone will be good for at least two years before Apple comes out with a next gen device.

I thought this had to be the case with the AppleTV. There is just too many possibilities this device has for it to remain static for any length of time. And I guess it makes sense for the iPhone since you have to sign up for a two year contract.

But will the next generation AppleTV support 1080p? I should be able to afford a nice Sony by then. :)

[SiliconAddict]

"We want to provide many of these new features and applications at no additional charge to users until the iPhone becomes insanely popular. At which point we'll just release updates for the latest and greatest iPhone."

Fixed that for you. :rolleyes: Apple not trying to force people into upgrading their hardware through software updates is like Microsoft not pulling some underhanded slimeball business tactic. It just doesn't happen.

[shawnce]

So, this means the current AppleTV and the iPhone will be good for at least two years before Apple comes out with a next gen device. Don't assume that. The 24 month spreading of revenue from the device doesn't really say anything about how often they are going to rev the hardware.

[shawnce]

Deferring revenue for accounting I think has more to do with Apple hiding sales #'s for units of iPhones and AppleTV's They can hide those numbers by not stating them... spreading their revenue over 24 months isn't going to improve hiding of unit numbers. If they state any numbers then you can divide by 24 and make a guess at the unit volume, etc.

[syklee26]

The other really cool part about all of this has to do with my solid belief that Apple has decided to keep the iPhone extremely tight. If you buy an iPhone at launch that phone will continue to be updated and will last more than 2 years since they are accounting for it over a 24 month period. This means you will not be screwed by buying an iPhone in the begining. The iPhone hardware is advanced enough to handle the new software apple will want to ship, and when 3G and more memory is added in new models the form factor will remain the same, and as new features are added the entire line will see the benefits. Unlike the iPod where 3g iPods cannot play the games or some of the other new iPod OS features.


not quite. if there is hardware problem, you are out of luck. for example, first gen MBP, despite all the updates and stuff, is not as good as the recent ones because of hardware problems.

[dongmin]

It's a hardware thing. They could build the 3G chipset into the phone and activate it later (but they won't do that...).

Why not? I can see Apple producing one iPhone that works for both the 2.5G network in the US and the 3G network in Europe/Japan. Once 3G becomes wide-spread in the US, I can see a firmware update that upgrades your iPhone to utilize the 3G network.

Regarding the AppleTV, Apple will most likely activate the USB in a future firmware upgrade so that you can add peripherals to the AppleTV, as the recent patent application suggests.

[ShaneM]

So, this means the current AppleTV and the iPhone will be good for at least two years before Apple comes out with a next gen device.

I thought this had to be the case with the AppleTV. There is just too many possibilities this device has for it to remain static for any length of time. And I guess it makes sense for the iPhone since you have to sign up for a two year contract.

But will the next generation AppleTV support 1080p? I should be able to afford a nice Sony by then. :)

Not at all. 3G is not supported by iPhone and WILL be soon. 1080p is not supported on :apple: TV but WILL (i am speculating here) be soon. I may be mistaken but both of those are hardware updates. Just as computers and applications are updated constantly, hardware is too. This will also apply to iPhone. You will always have the latest version of the apps and firmware, but not the hardware.

I suppose if you meant will it still be usable in 2 years, yes. But it will by no means be the latest release (which is a big problem as this is the only apple product for which you must sign a contract :mad: ).

[toolhouse]

Leopard is the reason for the accounting change. The "secret" features in Leopard interface and add amazing functionality to both the iPhone and :apple: TV. But Leopard doesn't release until October...and they don't want to get caught in another "N" mess. I keep looking at my :apple: TV and know that it does more. I was at the keynote and know the iPhone does more (Video iChat anyone?). Leopard is the key to unlocking the windoze world, you wait and see.

[rlreif]

Why not? I can see Apple producing one iPhone that works for both the 2.5G network in the US and the 3G network in Europe/Japan. Once 3G becomes wide-spread in the US, I can see a firmware update that upgrades your iPhone to utilize the 3G network.

Regarding the AppleTV, Apple will most likely activate the USB in a future firmware upgrade so that you can add peripherals to the AppleTV, as the recent patent application suggests.

why?
3g is widespread in the most populated parts of the country NOW
its not like you have anything to lose by having a 3g capable phone but no 3g service in your area, your device will use edge. why should apple decide that my capable device shouldnt get to use the 3g that already exists in my area, until they determine that it is widespread enough, thereby 'activating' it?

there is absolutely no reason for apple to sell a disabled device for future activation

[justflie]

Agreed. Even if the iPhone had 3G, it would be backward compatible, so why not? If they actually expect people to hang onto these/want to buy them, the specs can't (at release day nonetheless!) be worse than current offerings of other companies.

[quik]

The only reason why they want to spread the revenues through 24 months is simply because they don't want to get one or two great Q and get back to normal after. This is no good for the stock.

I got no idea how we call it in english, but in french we call it "amortissement & amortissement cumulé". They will probably also spread their developpement costs too :)

[Tadow]

Why not? I can see Apple producing one iPhone that works for both the 2.5G network in the US and the 3G network in Europe/Japan. Once 3G becomes wide-spread in the US, I can see a firmware update that upgrades your iPhone to utilize the 3G network.

Regarding the AppleTV, Apple will most likely activate the USB in a future firmware upgrade so that you can add peripherals to the AppleTV, as the recent patent application suggests.

3G in Europe is NOT the same as 3G in the US. One is at 1900 and the other at 2100. I found this out the hard way when I purchased the Nokia N80 and it would not work with Cingular's 3G.

[imacdaddy]

Going to take a stab at this

[imacdaddy]

Going to take a stab at this…please correct me if I’m wrong.

It all depends on how Apple is selling the iPhone to AT&T and other carriers going forward. I can think of 2 options mainly the 2nd relating to this news. (Option 1) Direct Sales to the Carriers. Payment received in full on receipt of goods by customer. In accounting, costs treated as COSP and booked as expense. Full revenue and cost of sales booked at the time of sale. (Option 2) Direct Sales to the Carriers with monthly installments from Carriers over an extended term (24 months). Cost treated as COSP and booked as expense. Revenue is accrued and spread over 24 months and cost can be amortised over the contract term. Option 2 will have a positive impact on their P&L at the Gross Margin level quarter on quarter. Perhaps in reverse, AT&T would prefer option 2, so in their accounting, they don’t have to be hit with huge OPEX for the iPhone even though they are receiving upfront payment from end customers. This way their revenues will be positive and the costs of the iPhone can be accrued over an extended period, ultimately improving their P&L on paper.

This accounting bit was just to give a heads up to investors that their P&L will look different from next quarter on without getting into too much detail on their relationship with the carriers, while hinting there will be a “subscription” base service coming. We shall be seeing something exciting for the iPhone and perhaps a monthly subscription for movie rentals or TV show packaging for AppleTV. Everything done up till this moment has been direct sales, one time revenue and cost booked up front (eg. Revenue from Apple Store/Vendors, songs from iTunes, software, hardware etc.)

As for free software/software update, Apple has been doing this all along with all their hardware and software so this is not unexpected. This is just reassurance that Apple is committed to these NEW products as much as the iPod, Macs and their apps.

[PubGuy]

I remember reading that the reason 3G was not going in iPhone in the first release was because of poor battery life. Seems the 3G saps more from the battery that the EDGE does and that Apple was still either seeking a more power efficient 3G hardware chip or needing to figure out a way to tweak more life via power management. :cool:

[ortuno2k]

Hmmm...ok, cool?

[cwedl]

hello skype for iphone!!

[sionharris]

On a side note, today I had reason to use the calculator on my Razr, I believe it took 9 button presses to get to it. Everytime I catch a glimpse of that iPhone and envision osx on it my current phone grows more repulsive to look at and use. Come on June.

14 on my Nokia phone, 16 if you include unlocking the keypad first. Well over 30 if you consider my getting lost every time I want to use something other than phoning, texting or internet.

And to think that Nokia are the least confusing and most intuitive phones that I have used...... (Don't get me started on Motorolas.)

[sionharris]

As for free software/software update, Apple has been doing this all along with all their hardware and software so this is not unexpected. This is just reassurance that Apple is committed to these NEW products as much as the iPod, Macs and their apps.

If anything, I would like some reassurance that Apple are as committed to Macs as they are the NEW products!

[firsttube]

On a side note, today I had reason to use the calculator on my Razr, I believe it took 9 button presses to get to it. Everytime I catch a glimpse of that iPhone and envision osx on it my current phone grows more repulsive to look at and use. Come on June.

9 button presses? You do know that Motorola's interface is completely customizable and you can change the up, down, left, right, or either of the soft keys into a one press calculator. I'm not crazy about motorolas interfaces by any means, but at least learn what you can do (and change!) with your device before you go complaining about it. :rolleyes:

[Stella]

9 button presses? You do know that Motorola's interface is completely customizable and you can change the up, down, left, right, or either of the soft keys into a one press calculator. I'm not crazy about motorolas interfaces by any means, but at least learn what you can do (and change!) with your device before you go complaining about it. :rolleyes:

Same for the Nokia owner above.

The UI is customizable, you can move around apps, assign short cuts etc.

[dernhelm]

hello skype for iphone!!

That would totally rock. I might actually buy an iPhone if I didn't need to pay for service I rarely use. I have WiFi and Home and WiFi at work, and only really need standard phone service when I'm on the road and not in range of a WiFi signal. While that means I'd still need it, I could get by with bare-bones phone service (at a much lower cost) and I'd never even really notice.

[mccldwll]

I'm sure this little to do with Apple's stated explanation, and is driven by its arrangement with ATT to support the service and revenue share, since the phone is worthless to consumer without the service.

[puckhead193]

As long as i can get "ichat" and a PDF/word viewer i'm a happy camper.
Do you think AIM express would work if i really needed to go on AIM?

[bdj21ya]

As long as i can get "ichat" and a PDF/word viewer i'm a happy camper.
Do you think AIM express would work if i really needed to go on AIM?

If I understand you correctly, then no. Since you can't load 3rd party software on, and since the software would no work with the phone's OS, there would be no way to make that work. However, I will be very disappointed in Apple if they don't add iChat AV functionality at least at some point during the next year or so (although the "V" part might be pointless, since the camera is on the back, at least for now). iChat works with AIM, so you'd be good to go if they implement it. For AIM text chat, I'm sure it will be included with the first edition.

[mrthieme]

9 button presses? You do know that Motorola's interface is completely customizable and you can change the up, down, left, right, or either of the soft keys into a one press calculator. I'm not crazy about motorolas interfaces by any means, but at least learn what you can do (and change!) with your device before you go complaining about it. :rolleyes:
OK Spare me the defense of how well my phone works, I use it alot and I'm not impressed. I'll grant you that I could have spent an unknown amount of time learning how to customize the interface of a phone, but that really doesn't appeal to me. It's a phone for God's sake, I want to pick it up and have simple functions readily apparent and easy to use.

So I guess the default for OSX should be to have all the items in your dock hidden away in obscure folders, and accessible only through Finder. But if you stumble upon the commands to do so, you can set up a visable dock that makes sense, oh wait, that is how it ships from the factory. Sounds very intuitive, we should submit that idea to Apple.

My experience with Macs has raised my levels of expectation with everything I buy, and the iPhone makes my Razr look ridiculous.

[aftk2]

OK Spare me the defense of how well my phone works, I use it alot and I'm not impressed. I'll grant you that I could have spent an unknown amount of time learning how to customize the interface of a phone, but that really doesn't appeal to me. It's a phone for God's sake, I want to pick it up and have simple functions readily apparent and easy to use.


Amen. Heh. Customize the UI in order to use one feature that one very rarely uses? Reserve a keystroke for said feature? Bleh. To continue the analogy above... OS X allows someone to add shortcuts to menu items and customize toolbars, but this is a poor substitute for making the user experience enough intuitive in the first place.

And yes, the Razr is atrocious. This isn't Apple-praising, either: My Sony Walkman phone is a great phone - easy to use, intuitive, etc... My wife's Razr is an abomination. Seriously...it's probably the ugliest, least intuitive UI I've ever used.

[JMax1]

although the "V" part might be pointless, since the camera is on the back, at least for now).

I think Belkin will come up with a very reasonable solution to the camera being on the back by a very low-cost attachment of a mirror or two that that the camera is facing you. You just have to hold the phone upside down so you come across as right-side up. I think. Maybe Belkin will give the software that flip the image upside down.

Photobooth for the iPhone?

[Porchland]

Interesting. So with todays earnings report only 1/24th of all :apple: TV's sold to date were included in the report. (The next report would have 3/24 - it was only out for 1 month in the current report.)

Yeah, but it's cumulative. Next quarter you'll have 3/24 of the sales made in the first month, 3/24 of the sales made in the second month, etc.

I don't know if this was part of Apple's intent but it should make the quarter-over-quarter sales numbers more consistent and steadily growing, and the markets love consistency with steady growth.

[bretm]

This to me is what is so great about the iPhone, it is completely soft and changes can be made at any time. New interfaces and apps whenever they come up can be implemented. I expect this will be an exciting product with Apple throwing so much in the way of resources behind it.

On a side note, today I had reason to use the calculator on my Razr, I believe it took 9 button presses to get to it. Everytime I catch a glimpse of that iPhone and envision osx on it my current phone grows more repulsive to look at and use. Come on June.

Someone needs to rtm and learn how to use shortcut keys. My calculator is 2 keys away. Menu, 3. My calendar, menu,2. My alarm clock, menu,1.

[mrthieme]

Someone needs to rtm and learn how to use shortcut keys. My calculator is 2 keys away. Menu, 3. My calendar, menu,2. My alarm clock, menu,1.
You're joking, right? I need to memorize sets of keystroke combinations in order to access my calender in reasonable time?

Look, I'm happy for you, it's great that you have taken the time to learn the intricate menus and shortcuts required to use a phone. I'm hoping for something a little better. Some people like to write command lines, I prefer GUI.

[JMax1]

You're joking, right? I need to memorize sets of keystroke combinations in order to access my calender in reasonable time?

Look, I'm happy for you, it's great that you have taken the time to learn the intricate menus and shortcuts required to use a phone. I'm hoping for something a little better. Some people like to write command lines, I prefer GUI.



Right on, brother

[sionharris]

Someone needs to rtm and learn how to use shortcut keys. My calculator is 2 keys away. Menu, 3. My calendar, menu,2. My alarm clock, menu,1.

And what about people like me who remember things by sight, not by number? I can't even remember which F key brings up Exposé - I use active screen corners instead. I tried using Quicksilver but found I hated using the keyboard and much preferred icons on the Dock.

I used to have a head for sequences but my memory has been shocking since I left school. Probably caused by too much alcohol. :(

[mrthieme]

Right on, brother
I'm glad I'm not alone here. Basic functionality should be at the topmost levels of an interface, and it should be easy to get to. Drilling down into labrynths of submenus is for more advanced features and less used tools.

Think about the screen on the iPhone, the basic features are always docked at the bottom so they are never more than a click away, and if you leave an app to go into another app for something, when you come back to it you will be right where you were when you left it, like in the iPod. That's smart.

[mrthieme]

And what about people like me who remember things by sight, not by number? I can't even remember which F key brings up Exposé - I use active screen corners instead. I tried using Quicksilver but found I hated using the keyboard and much preferred icons on the Dock.

I used to have a head for sequences but my memory has been shocking since I left school. Probably caused by too much alcohol. :(
I too have a hard time with keyboard shortcuts and do most everything with my mouse, having visual cues is essential for me.

[MacbookSwitcher]

I too have a hard time with keyboard shortcuts and do most everything with my mouse, having visual cues is essential for me.

That is strictly personal preference. Keyboard shortcuts can be just as fast and effective as using the mouse or touching.

Also, there are many phones on the market which have addressed alot of the usability issues the iPhone is trying to hit. For example, on Windows Mobile, major applications can be accessed in one tap from the today screen via each app's respective today view plug-in. Honestly, do you think apple created the idea of a "Home view" on mobile phones?

It's amazing here the lack of knowledge about mobile devices, and the conclusions being made from them!

[mrthieme]

I have learned something today. My Verizon Razr is not crap, it is a beautiful, inspiring piece of technology that I just never took the time to love. Maybe if I start now by June I will have mastered the requisite skills for using it. With hindsight, I clearly understand that the iPhone is a rehash of the pioneering efforts of Motorola and Microsoft, and that I shouldn't want anything more. I have been schooled.

[Cult Follower]

I am really glad to hear this, now i have no excuse to not get one

[JNB]

There is no "subsidy" because there is a "reverse subsidy", even at the $599 price point and 50% gross margin :)


We don't know what the gross margin is - the iSuppli estimate is (a), just that, an estimate, and (b), cost of materials only.

The gross margin will be the percentage or dollar markup over the total cost, which is made up of fixed, variable, and semi-variable costs.

Assuming iSuppli's numbers are right - and on that point I have no opinion - a more realistic gross will be more in the neighborhood of 25 - 35%, indicating a total cost to Apple of $445 - $480.

And if you've ever read Apple's financials, you know that we'll never be able to really break it down. Outside of Steve, the accounting & finance departments, and the board of directors, pretty much nobody's ever been able to truly decipher the particulars of Apples discrete P&L line items.

[jesteraver]

:apple: tv updates are much needed atleast play avi :p

Actually they should update the Airport Extreme again with 10/100/1000 (4-ports), 2 usb ports. Only thing thats really keeping me from buying it.

[GregA]

The AppleTV could easily be on an "interim" OSX 10.4.7, when in fact they are planning to share the OS with the iPhones OSX-Lite (whatever that means - certainly much lower memory requirement).

That could be a significant 'upgrade' to the AppleTV, even if they've made the existing OSX look similar to the future one. It could increase performance & enable new functionality.

they stated that periodic updates and enhancements will be provided at no charge to Apple TV customers.

I assume such an upgrade will be free even though it's significant... if so they'd make sure they aren't forced to charge us & this new accounting method may be necessary.

ps. There seem to be a few similar threads... don't think I saw this before.