MPAA ''Committed To Fair Use, Interoperability, DRM''

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

The MPAA is committed to fair use, interoperability, and DRM (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070426-mpaa-drm-must-be-interoperable-dvds-should-be-rippable.html), according to a report by Arstechnica. The statements, made by MPAA boss Dan Glickman this week at a LexisNexis conference on DRM, indicate a migration of thinking by movie studios.

Amongst the ideas proposed by the MPAA was a plan to let consumers rip DVDs for use on home media servers and iPods. However, Ars notes that the plan is not without caveats, and the plan is still in its infancy. For one, it appears as though the movie studios would want Digital Rights Management (DRM) applied to any ripped movies.

I asked him specifically about DVDs, which are currently illegal to rip under the DMCA, and how the law would square with his vision of allowing consumers to use such content on iPods and other devices. "You notice that I said 'legally' and in a protected way," Glickman responded, suggesting that some form of DRM would still be required before the studios would sign off on such a plan. He noted, however, that no specific plans have been made.

However, the MPAA does have its sights on making DRM more inter-operable.

In his speech, Glickman said that the industry needs "a collective philosophical commitment" to move forward on issues of interoperability and authorized use, and said that the MPAA has now made that commitment. He called on other companies in the industry to sit down and work out a solution. Though he never mentioned Apple by name, it's clear that the Cupertino-based company was number one on the list of companies that need to get involved; whether interoperable DRM and legitimate DVD ripping actually mesh with Apple's own business priorities is another question, though.

Apple recently made a deal with EMI for DRM-less music tracks (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/02/emi-apple-press-conference-coverage/) to be sold through the iTunes Store. However, many analysts believe that such a deal is unlikely to succeed with movie studios. While Apple has signed up a number of movie studios to provide content for the iTunes Store, only Disney-owned companies provide new releases, perhaps highlighting the work still left to be done in the online movie market.

[PlaceofDis]

not surprising. i don't see the movie industry giving up DRM anytime soon. they're almost worse in some ways than the RIAA. some ways.

[princealfie]

Both of the MPAA and RIAA are part of the true axis of evil by far. I consider them to be on the top 5 most wanted list.

[stompy]

The MPAA is committed to fair use, interoperability, and


profit, above all else.


Amongst the ideas proposed by the MPAA was a plan to let consumers rip DVDs for use on home media servers and iPods. .


Why on earth would Apple care about this? Apple already has a revenue generating means of putting video content on an iPod.

[ibjoshua]

<breaths calmly />
I'm not holding my breath.

ibjoshua

[SunnyBonno]

how is this at all really relevant to apple? it's not really this organizations call on anything when you get down to it.

[Small White Car]

Ha. Funny they should use the word "interoperability" as it's THE entire basis for the best anti-DRM article I've ever seen to date:

http://daringfireball.net/2006/06/drm_interoperability

Short version: A company can have good, strong DRM or you have interoperability. Not BOTH.

The music industry has been fooling themselves for years by pretending this isn't so. They're just now starting to wake up and realize that they HAVE to choose. Not surprisingly, some have now decided that interoperability matters more than DRM. Good choice.

Apparently it's going to take Hollywood ANOTHER decade to figure that out for themselves.

[kalisphoenix]

"I see that you're having sex with my daughter. Very well, I will allow you to kiss her."

[princealfie]

"I see that you're having sex with my daughter. Very well, I will allow you to kiss her."

Be careful that you're not talking to Humbert Humbert over there. :p :p

[slu]

Why on earth would Apple care about this? Apple already has a revenue generating means of putting video content on an iPod.

Because people like the option of using stuff they already bought once, fairly and legally, rather than having to buy them again.

You don't think if it was legal to rip DVDs for fair use that Apple would incorporate that functionality into iTunes?

They also want to sell more AppleTVs, and this would certainly help. I know I would consider one if it was only a one step process to get movies from DVD into iTunes like CDs.

[05elstonc]

Why on Earth would Apple allow the ripping of CDs as a means for putting music on an iPod? I mean they have a revenue generating means for this....

Because people like the option of using stuff they already bought once, fairly and legally, rather than having to buy them again.

You don't think if it was legal to rip DVDs for fair use that Apple would incorporate that functionality into iTunes?

Yep! Apple will allow users to burn their DVD's if the MPAA allows it. They can put FairPlay on the content to keep it safe. This would really help the AppleTV.

[GFLPraxis]

I don't know what is more important to me; being able to rip a DVD to an iPod, or being able to burn iTunes purchases to DVD.

Well, for me, personally, the latter is more important, because I already use Handbrake. But to the majority of people, being able to rip a DVD to the iPod will make a huge difference in their purchasing plans, because many people don't want to re-buy content online and so disregard the iPod's video capabilities.

On the other hand, I just bought the first nine episodes of Heroes on iTunes, and I have to hook my iPod up to any TV I want to watch it on. Why can't they develop a way to burn a DVD w/CSS?

[GFLPraxis]

Both of the MPAA and RIAA are part of the true axis of evil by far. I consider them to be on the top 5 most wanted list.

Microsoft, RIAA, MPAA, Sony BMG, and who else? Wal-Mart? McDonalds?

[john7jr]

As long as Macrovision is the weakest link in Video DRM I'll continue to use Handbrake to get my legally purchased movies onto my video iPod.

"I see that you're having sex with my daughter. Very well, I will allow you to kiss her."

Exactly.

[skellener]

Amongst the ideas proposed by the MPAA was a plan to let consumers rip DVDs for use on home media servers and iPods.

Geee, thanks MPAA!! Umm...most people including me do this already. DMCA or not. I say it's FAIR USE. I bought it, it's mine, leave me alone. Sure, they should go after people posting stuff on the net, but if I have a legit copy of it, I will do as I please for my own personal use. They can go to hell for all I care. I don't need "permission" to handle my property. It's mine.

[Stella]

profit, above all else.



Why on earth would Apple care about this? Apple already has a revenue generating means of putting video content on an iPod.

Because it'll affect what functionality Apple will provide in iTunes. Maybe an option of ripping DVDs -> iTunes -> iPod ( with DRM wrapper ).

[job]

Because it'll affect what functionality Apple will provide in iTunes. Maybe an option of ripping DVDs -> iTunes -> iPod ( with DRM wrapper ).

Bingo.

As much as we don't like to admit it, that might be the best possible use for DRM.

[princealfie]

Because it'll affect what functionality Apple will provide in iTunes. Maybe an option of ripping DVDs -> iTunes -> iPod ( with DRM wrapper ).

Heck no, at that rate I would keep using Handbrake without DRM wrapper! :mad:

[reallynotnick]

Because it'll affect what functionality Apple will provide in iTunes. Maybe an option of ripping DVDs -> iTunes -> iPod ( with DRM wrapper ).

Heck even I might be into that even though I use handbrake if it saves me a couple of seconds.

But otherwise I personally don't care to much about this, but it would be VERY cool to have the average consumer getting DVD's onto their iPod, BUT this could slow down the transition to HD discs. Being that DVD's are cracked their is nothing to expose, but with both HD discs they are not fully cracked and they would have something to lose by integrating this, as the hacker community could take this code and use it.

So I guess someone needs to make ripping HD discs as easy as handbrake, so they will open those up to iTunes too!

[Digital Skunk]

Sounds great.... I LOVE DRM :D :D

[Digital Skunk]

Heck no, at that rate I would keep using Handbrake without DRM wrapper! :mad:

I will be doing the same thing my friend. :)

[ariza910]

Did the MPAA forget about DVD rental service like Netflix or Blockbuster?

If the MPAA allows legal DVD ripping I could see a lot of people questioning why they need to buy a DVD when they can just rent and rip a copy.

[EricNau]

So far, DRM has protected the movie industry from piracy (for the most part), so I completely understand their stance on DRM and why they want to keep it.

It would be in everyone's best interest if iTunes users could copy DVDs for personal use, while applying FairPlay on the digital copy. If iTunes had this feature customers would win with the ability to easily (and legally) rip DVDs to use for their iPod/Apple TV, and the movie industry would win by discouraging users from making DRM-free copies of their movies. Plus, Apple would win by selling more Apple TVs.

Right now, we can't (legally) rip movies at all, so this deal sounds like a great compromise for everyone.

[longofest]

Did the MPAA forget about DVD rental service like Netflix or Blockbuster?

If the MPAA allows legal DVD ripping I could see a lot of people questioning why they need to buy a DVD when they can just rent and rip a copy.

Hopefully, they acknowledge that most people understand that such practices are stealing. I don't forsee them giving up their anti-movie-stealing campaign that they have been running in the theaters anytime soon.

I think most people out there would at least be satisfied if the MPAA allowed companies like Apple to make an ecosystem where they could take content and put it on their devices as they choose, even if there are some copying restrictions (as in, its not a free pass to pass it on to all your friends).

Why on earth would Apple care about this? Apple already has a revenue generating means of putting video content on an iPod.

To reiterate what some others have said, Apple doesn't care if they make a few cents of the iTunes Store. What they DO care about is making much more money off of :apple: TV sales, or iPod sales, etc.

Apple already allows you to rip CD's in iTunes. That capability was around long before the Music Store was around, lest we forget, and it was doing a fine job of selling iPods. Anything that helps make them a more attractive option for selling their hardware/software bundle will be welcome. Obviously, if people can rip their already-owned DVD collection into iTunes, that is a HUGE advantage for something like the Apple TV, and I think Apple would be all for the MPAA to allow them to do such a thing.

[tk421]

I think it would be great if I could rip my DVDs into iTunes. The people in these forums are more technologically savvy than most. The average person doesn't want to mess with Handbrake, or they don't know about it.

This would make the Apple TV more enticing.

Secondly, if you could burn a DVD of your iTunes video purchases (just like you can burn a CD of iTunes music), more people would be interested in downloading video content from iTunes. My wife would have used this just last week. She had some episodes of The Office and wanted to take them to a friend's house. Unfortunately, I was going out of town with the video iPod. If she could easily burn a DVD, she would have done that the day before.

While I see this as positive, I do understand why most people are reacting so negatively. Ideally, people wouldn't steal. And ideally, the movie industry wouldn't treat legitimate users (like me) like we are thieves. Then we'd have no DRM.

[Thataboy]

Well, the argument Apple often brings up about removing DRM from music is that CDs, which make up the bulk of music sales, have no DRM to begin with.

The same cannot be said of DVDs.

Of course, one can easily argue that it takes just ONE PERSON to rip a DVD with handbrake and upload it to a P2P network -- at that point, it is in the wild for anyone to take if they so desire. Meanwhile, DRM still simply penalizes legitimate users and purchasers of digital content. I won't hold my breath that the MPAA will see it that way.

That said, it is not SUPER UNREASONABLE for the MPAA to say "look, you can rip DVDs in iTunes for use on iPods or :apple:tv, but we just want it be a 1:1 transaction -- there was DRM before, and there is DRM after." Contrast that to the outrageous behavior of the Zune, which ADDS DRM to the songs it squirts to other Zunes, whether the song was bought online or not.

Ultimately, I think it is fine for the MPAA to allowing ripping of DVDs in iTunes if DRM is added. For those of us who have an issue with that, there is always handbrake. It'll simply make :apple:tv more useful to the masses who don't know what handbrake is.

At some point, Apple really should establish a Netflix-like subscription service for video content. I personally don't understand anyone who wants to "own" an iTunes movie at a quality below DVD, with no extra content, at such a high price. It boggles the mind, when one can easily buy a DVD for little more $, use handbrake, and have all the extra content + DVD quality + no DRM. What, you REALLY need to see Pirates of the Caribbean now now now?

[EricNau]

Secondly, if you could burn a DVD of your iTunes video purchases (just like you can burn a CD of iTunes music), more people would be interested in downloading video content from iTunes. My wife would have used this just last week. She had some episodes of The Office and wanted to take them to a friend's house. Unfortunately, I was going out of town with the video iPod. If she could easily burn a DVD, she would have done that the day before.
I don't see that happening anytime soon. While it may encourage video purchasing from the iTunes store, it would discourage Apple TV sales (who would spend $300 when you could just burn a DVD instead?). ...Remember, Apple makes their money from hardware sales, not iTunes.

It would also discourage movie corporations from selling content through iTunes (besides the piracy issue, it could also decrease DVD sales).

[shamino]

... fair use, interoperability, and DRM
Hmmm... That third item, by definition, eliminates any possibility of the first two.

I wonder if their next press release will be a call for a peaceful nuclear war.

What they ask for can be done - license code to decrypt, rip, and re-encrypt with a different tech (like FairPlay). But it really won't accomplish anything. Right now, anybody who wants to bother can easily download software to break DVD encryption and rip it without DRM.
Both of the MPAA and RIAA are part of the true axis of evil by far. I consider them to be on the top 5 most wanted list.The RIAA and MPAA have no independent will. They say what their member corporations are saying.

The source of these statements are the record labels and movie studios (Sony, Warner Bros, Universal, Disney, etc.) If anybody is being "evil" here, it is these companies. The RIAA/MPAA will very quickly change its press releases if/when its member companies decide to change their collective minds.
If the MPAA allows legal DVD ripping I could see a lot of people questioning why they need to buy a DVD when they can just rent and rip a copy.
I'm sure the studios are thinking about this. And it will probably nix any possible deal. But in the real world, it doesn't matter - those who want to illegally rip a DVD can do so today, and many people are doing just that.

[Stella]

Exactly!

Apple have movie / show downloads from iTuness, yes. What people are forgetting is that this is limited to a small consumer base - i.e., the states only.

iTV is for windows as well as Mac. As it stands, iTV is very limited, you cannot legally put DVD content on to your computer.

This MPAA aim will allow Apple to offer such functionality within iTunes and make iTV ( and iPod ) more appealing.



To reiterate what some others have said, Apple doesn't care if they make a few cents of the iTunes Store. What they DO care about is making much more money off of :apple: TV sales, or iPod sales, etc.

Apple already allows you to rip CD's in iTunes. That capability was around long before the Music Store was around, lest we forget, and it was doing a fine job of selling iPods. Anything that helps make them a more attractive option for selling their hardware/software bundle will be welcome. Obviously, if people can rip their already-owned DVD collection into iTunes, that is a HUGE advantage for something like the Apple TV, and I think Apple would be all for the MPAA to allow them to do such a thing.

[Xapplimatic]

They are obviously in panic mode because they can see the tide of consumer resentment against DRM is clearly not in their favor. This is a Microsoft style adopt and assimilate move (ala Borg genre) which tries to say oh look! Our DRM isn't so bad after all! What ever! Weaker DRM is even more pointless.. yet just another insult to consumers and a waste of our precious time... Weaker DRM with more loop-holes clearly is even more pirate fodder than stronger DRM with fewer. What's their point? I think it's this: We hate our customers just as much as the people who steal from us blatantly..

[PNW]

So far, DRM has protected the movie industry from piracy (for the most part)

What?
I'd argue the opposite. Given the multitude or both free and commercial products currently on the market for copying/ ripping DVD’s I fail to see how DRM has prevented anything but non tech-savvy users from backing up their DVDs



It would be in everyone's best interest if iTunes users could copy DVDs for personal use, while applying FairPlay on the digital copy.

Not in mine, or anyone else who doesn’t use iTunes for everything. I’ve currently got MythTV running on an old Dell with a Suse install hooked up to my TV. This would just give me the “choice” of ponying more $$ for an apple TV that’s not as versatile if I wanted to make “legal” digital copies to watch at home.

You want compromise; make it legal to copy with complete interoperability and illegal to distribute.

[EricNau]

What?
I'd argue the opposite. Given the multitude or both free and commercial products currently on the market for copying/ ripping DVD’s I fail to see how DRM has prevented anything but non tech-savvy users from backing up their DVDs
Has movie pirating reached the same level as music pirating? No, so something is obviously working.

Not in mine, or anyone else who doesn’t use iTunes for everything. I’ve currently got MythTV running on an old Dell with a Suse install hooked up to my TV. This would just give me the “choice” of ponying more $$ for an apple TV that’s not as versatile if I wanted to make “legal” digital copies to watch at home.
iTunes was purely an example. Surely other programs would be able to do the same.

You want compromise; make it legal to copy with complete interoperability and illegal to distribute.
And has that worked for the music industry? No, so that obviously does not work.

[zioxide]

"Committed To Fair Use, Interoperability, DRM"

wait, what?

You can't be committed to fair use and committed to DRM. DRM restricts fair use and interoperability.

If I own a DVD and I want to make it so I can watch it on my iPod, I should be able to without having to break the DRM. If I can't, than it's restricting my fair use of something that I OWN.

[PNW]

Has movie pirating reached the same level as music pirating? No, so something is obviously working.

Um, file size for starters.
Second is likely the idea that people have been freely passing music around between friends for years (a la mix tapes) and as such they are less likely to think of sharing as stealing. The web just expanded the sphere of one person’s “friends” to a size that bit into the record companies profits and there was a backlash. People are starting to get the idea that you can’t just “publish” someone else’s work even for free.

Movies are different we weren’t making mix tapes on betamax 25 years ago and passing them out to our friends.



iTunes was purely an example. Surely other programs would be able to do the same.
Right just like DRMd music from iTunes (or anywhere else) plays so well in Amarok.


And has that worked for the music industry? No, so that obviously does not work.
Given that iTunes is now selling DRM free music, I'd say it has.

You can either assume that everyone's a crook and given the opportunity to steal they will so you work for laws like the DMCA that turn otherwise law abiding citizens into criminals for simple fair use of a product they purchased. Or you can assume that any copy protection code can and will be cracked and focus your attention on the distribution and sales of illegal material.

[ariza910]

Isnt focusing on DVDs in 2007 kind of like focusing on the 8-Track during the early 80s?

DVDs are an aging distribution model - they will slowly give way to direct downloads to set top boxes like the :apple: TV or XBOX360.

Downloading content will ultimately become the distribution model in the future. What the MPAA will need to focus on is a way to allow that downloaded content to be moved from one device to another and to move that downloaded content to physical media like a DVD for storage.

[slughead]

Amongst the ideas proposed by the MPAA was a plan to let consumers rip DVDs for use on home media servers and iPods. However, Ars notes that the plan is not without caveats, and the plan is still in its infancy. For one, it appears as though the movie studios would want Digital Rights Management (DRM) applied to any ripped movies.


Thanks for permission, I've been doing that for years.

I own the DVD, and the computer. It's called personal property.

If I'm going to go to jail for ripping my own DVDs, I should probably just pirate them, since I'm going to jail anyway, right?

[EricNau]

Given that iTunes is now selling DRM free music, I'd say it has.
Quite the opposite really. The music industry is phasing out DRM because they've already lost the battle against piracy. DRM isn't making a difference anymore (not that it ever was). They've gotten to the point where they can no longer discourage piracy, so instead they're finding ways to encourage legal purchasing. Quite frankly, they can't do anything to make it worse than it already is.

Quite differently, DRM has worked very well for the movie industry, and I can understand perfectly why they would be reluctant to change that. They don't want piracy to spread to movies as well, which is exactly what would happen if they removed DRM as you are suggesting.

Keep in mind, the movie industry is digitally closed - every digital movie shipped today is shipped with DRM, making piracy quite difficult for the average consumer. The music industry, on the other hand is 95&#37; open, and has been since the release of the CD. ...This is what makes the two markets completely different.

[joeshell383]

Did the MPAA forget about DVD rental service like Netflix or Blockbuster?

If the MPAA allows legal DVD ripping I could see a lot of people questioning why they need to buy a DVD when they can just rent and rip a copy.

They could always give rental services special DVDs that won't rip.

There is so much fuss about DRM on these boards, and I just don't get it. For normal users it really doesn't interfere with the usability/enjoyability of the files at hand (but DOES help, somewhat at least, with keeping piracy down). This especially true for Joe Schmo who doesn't even know that DRM is being applied to his iTunes Store music, and thinks the 128kbps file is "A-OK digital quality."

DRM can be fair and interoperable. I think Fairplay is one of the best examples of such a mechanism.

BTW, this proposal is a BIG plus. It will turn :apple: TV into the next iPod, because it sure wasn't iTMS that made the iPod take off, it was pirated and legally ripped music.

[slughead]

Isnt focusing on DVDs in 2007 kind of like focusing on the 8-Track during the early 80s?

DVDs are an aging distribution model - they will slowly give way to direct downloads to set top boxes like the :apple: TV or XBOX360.

Downloading content will ultimately become the distribution model in the future. What the MPAA will need to focus on is a way to allow that downloaded content to be moved from one device to another and to move that downloaded content to physical media like a DVD for storage.

yeah, except downloaded content SUCKS

see how long it takes to download a full quality HDDVD movie... oh wait, you don't even have the "8-track" (dvd) quality available online.

I guess it's not so outdated after all.

[PNW]

Keep in mind, the movie industry is is digitally closed - every digital movie shipped today is shipped with DRM, making piracy quite difficult for the average consumer.

So you're saying that the average consumer is a thief. Personally I find that offensive, and it's exactly what pisses me off so much about DRM, especially considering that distributing pirated material requires more ingenuity than removing DRM.

In other words from my point of view the majority of average consumers are not and don’t want to be pirates, and all pirates are not average consumers.

[EricNau]

Isnt focusing on DVDs in 2007 kind of like focusing on the 8-Track during the early 80s?

DVDs are an aging distribution model - they will slowly give way to direct downloads to set top boxes like the :apple: TV or XBOX360.

Downloading content will ultimately become the distribution model in the future. What the MPAA will need to focus on is a way to allow that downloaded content to be moved from one device to another and to move that downloaded content to physical media like a DVD for storage.
That future is a very long way off. Digital music has been available for purchase online since 2000 (7 years ago), but is still only at 5&#37; of music sales. This is the first time movies have been available for purchase online and you can bet that adoption will be even slower than the music market.

Even the majority adoption of Blu-Ray or HD DVD is several years away.

You'll be seeing the DVD for quite some time still.

[EricNau]

So you're saying that the average consumer is a thief. Personally I find that offensive, and it's exactly what pisses me off so much about DRM, especially considering that distributing pirated material requires more ingenuity than removing DRM.

In other words from my point of view the majority of average consumers are not and don’t want to be pirates, and all pirates are not average consumers.
Are you trying to tell me that, if DRM were completely removed from all movies, pirating would not increase?


I think the MPAA is trying to reach a compromise that helps consumers without hurting sales. Why is this s bad thing? ...Why do you need your ripped movies completely DRM free?

[joeshell383]

So you're saying that the average consumer is a thief. Personally I find that offensive, and it's exactly what pisses me off so much about DRM, especially considering that distributing pirated material requires more ingenuity than removing DRM.

In other words from my point of view the majority of average consumers are not and don’t want to be pirates, and all pirates are not average consumers.

Unfortunately, a lot of consumers do steal/would steal intellectual property/media content when given the opportunity/easy access.

To me your argument could be compared to "most costumers don't steal, so why should I lock the doors and install video cameras". It is to protect against those who DO steal. Again, media content is EVEN easier to steal and far more anonymous than walking into a b&m store. Sometimes, people aren't even aware of it, i.e. casual piracy (sharing software, CD's, etc.)

I'm all for DRM, and other anti-piracy mechanisms such as activation, when it really is fair and does not impede on my personal usage.

(Personally, I do believe most current anti-piracy mechanisms on the market are fine for general use as is.)

[PNW]

There is so much fuss about DRM on these boards, and I just don't get it. For normal users it really doesn't interfere with the usability/enjoyability of the files at hand

It does and it doesn't. I’d like to be able to buy a movie, rip it to a computer, and watch it where ever I like. For me, that means the ability to play it on a Mac, a Windoze box or a Linux box depending on where I am at the time. I currently can’t do that without technically breaking the law.

[Stella]

DRM doesn't have to restrict interoperability - its just like that for digital music. There can be a standard created.

HDVD / BlueRay has standard DRM. All players must support that DRM otherwise they don't play. A few weeks ago a patch was made to the encryption after it was cracked. The encryption key was changed and all software based players and hardware players must have a software update.

This is interoperability working - you can play your HDDVD on your computer, on your HDDVD player next to your TV - just like CDs.

Hopefully DRM for HD-DVD / BlueRay / digital movies - won't become fragmented like music. Still time to make a standard!

"Committed To Fair Use, Interoperability, DRM"

wait, what?

You can't be committed to fair use and committed to DRM. DRM restricts fair use and interoperability.

If I own a DVD and I want to make it so I can watch it on my iPod, I should be able to without having to break the DRM. If I can't, than it's restricting my fair use of something that I OWN.

[SPUY767]

Heck no, at that rate I would keep using Handbrake without DRM wrapper! :mad:

You have to believe that if if Apple were to include that functionality in iTunes that it would be many times faster with better quality than Handbrake. I've used a UB on Handbrake and it's slow even on y Mac Pro.

[SPUY767]

Contrast that to the outrageous behavior of the Zune, which ADDS DRM to the songs it squirts to other Zunes, whether the song was bought online or not.

Apple does the same thing by not letting users copy songs easily from their iPod to another computer or iPod. They have to do that or the RIAA will swoop down on them like a falcon on a helpless kitten.

[PNW]

HDVD / BlueRay has standard DRM. All players must support that DRM otherwise they don't play. A few weeks ago a patch was made to the encryption after it was cracked. The encryption key was changed and all software based players and hardware players must have a software update.

Talk about making it hard for the "average user". People are barely used to the idea of regularly updating their computers. Now they’ll need to update the firmware on their HD-DVD player every time the code gets cracked.

When DVD drives started appearing for computers the MPAA made the requirements for obtaining the key to write a DVD player application so onerous that no application with a GNU license could comply. It wasn’t until the key was cracked that you could play a commercial DVD on a Linux box. Given that, I think it is actually currently illegal to even play a DVD on a Linux box. If you’re going to exclude the open source community you can’t really claim to be interoperable.



Locking the store is one thing, but the MPAA’s actions are more like following me home from the drug store and setting up a camera in my kitchen just to make sure I don’t convert that one box of Sudafed I just bought into Meth.

[EagerDragon]

Makes sense to me, They are going to allow you to do legaly, what you are already doing illegaly.

Lots of people use handbrake and others to rip the movies, and those moviews now have zero DRM and zero restrictions on where they are played and by whom.

By allowing you to copy the movie while is is wrapped by DRM, they are allowing you to do the same, but they have a say of the number of copies, who gets to use it and on what device.

Overall, as long as it is not too restrictive sounds like a win for consumers and MPAA.

[Stella]

Plug your next gen DVD player 'into the internet' and let it automatically download patches. If you don't have internet then contact your manufacturer.

Yes, it is harder for the average user, but its better than the fragmented DRM for digital music, in the long term.

Its not as if the DRM is going to be cracked every month.

Talk about making it hard for the "average user". People are barely used to the idea of regularly updating their computers. Now they’ll need to update the firmware on their HD-DVD player every time the code gets cracked.

[EagerDragon]

The encryption key was changed and all software based players and hardware players must have a software update.


Two set of releated questions:
a) How do you patch the hardware? Do they come to my house and burn a new eprom?

b) What about previously released titles created prior to the patch? Do they stop working and how do you keep the old titles from being copied even after the patch is released? Are they planning to path the piece of plastic (DVD)?

[Highland]

Hmmm... That third item, by definition, eliminates any possibility of the first two.

I wonder if their next press release will be a call for a peaceful nuclear war.
Couldn't agree more. It's just not technically possible.

And you know what? I don't care about HD DVD or Blu-ray if it means using draconian DRM. I'm sure I'll be fine sticking to DVDs.

And for anyone arguing for DRM, try this:
1. Pick any movie that's available to you to buy in your region.
2. Google the movie name with "torrent" after it.

DRM doesn't stop piracy. The only thing it does it hurt paying customers (oh, and up the system requirements for Vista).

[princealfie]

Are you trying to tell me that, if DRM were completely removed from all movies, pirating would not increase?


I think the MPAA is trying to reach a compromise that helps consumers without hurting sales. Why is this s bad thing? ...Why do you need your ripped movies completely DRM free?

That's because we have integrity and realize that DRM is a form of fascism by the corporations and thus we are willing to stand up against the big guy. We don't need DRM because it's the principle of the dictators trying to impose a meaningless standard that houses no value within the files we are trying to playback.

[Stella]

Two set of releated questions:
a) How do you patch the hardware? Do they come to my house and burn a new eprom?
[QUOTE]
- Plug it into internet ( obviously the device has to have support )
- contact the manufacturer

Existing DVD players can have their firmware upgraded by inserting a CD with the patch on - the device recongises the file name and updates it self.
[QUOTE=EagerDragon;3587974]
b) What about previously released titles created prior to the patch? Do they stop working and how do you keep the old titles from being copied even after the patch is released? Are they planning to path the piece of plastic (DVD)?

- if the new key doesn't work, try the previous keys
--

Anyway, you'd still get these problems on multiple DRM standards for digital movie downloads but of course its easier to update your computer, iPod et al than it is to update a NextGen dvd player. Yes, updating a next Gen dvd player box does have issues.

[Highland]

Are you trying to tell me that, if DRM were completely removed from all movies, pirating would not increase?
I know music isn't the same, but it seems like all the reliable research suggests sales will INCREASE if there's no DRM.

At the very least, DRM is useless. At the worst, it's a punch in the face to loyal customers.

[JoeG4]

(*#@%&

the MPAA.


You want to rip DVDs?

http://handbrake.m0k.org/

No DRM. End of ****** story.

[EagerDragon]

[QUOTE=EagerDragon;3587974]Two set of releated questions:
a) How do you patch the hardware? Do they come to my house and burn a new eprom?
[QUOTE]
- Plug it into internet ( obviously the device has to have support )
- contact the manufacturer

Existing DVD players can have their firmware upgraded by inserting a CD with the patch on - the device recongises the file name and updates it self.


- if the new key doesn't work, try the previous keys
--

Anyway, you'd still get these problems on multiple DRM standards for digital movie downloads but of course its easier to update your computer, iPod et al than it is to update a NextGen dvd player. Yes, updating a next Gen dvd player box does have issues.

Hi Stella, I understand that for a computer, but what about a hardware DVD player. It does not sound practical. Also what is the motivation for the customer to go thru the trouble of downloading a patch and applying it to every dedicated DVD player?

Also the new patch may break old titles and that would piss the consumer. The avarage consumer would not know how to do all of that including going back to the old key, to me is not practical. They (MPAA) have to comeup with something and live with it.

[GFLPraxis]

Has movie pirating reached the same level as music pirating? No, so something is obviously working.


Only because of bandwidth issues. It takes a lot more peers to transfer a movie in a reasonable length of time than an MP3.

[EagerDragon]

Only because of bandwidth issues. It takes a lot more peers to transfer a movie in a reasonable length of time than an MP3.

based on some articles I seen, some of the big time pirating is occuring before the movie hits the theaters, never mind waiting to come out on DVD. Apparently this is going on big time in Asia, where you can buy DVDs from street vendors for next to nothing on or about the time the movie is being played in theaters.

So like with music, I am not sure that DRM buys them much. I am willing to live with DRM if the model is close to fairplay with the Mac/iPod. If too restricted, most people will just rip or buy from blackmarket or P2P.

[EricNau]

"Give someone an inch and they'll take a mile."

It seems everyone should be thrilled with the new plan, but all some of you can do is complain. :confused: Sure, it would be great if people could be trusted and movies could be shipped DRM free but this isn't a perfect world. Instead, the MPAA has come up with a good compromise that helps both sides. Under this new plan, you would be able to make legitimate copies of your DVDs and play them on virtually any device, while the MPAA can still utilize DRM to fight piracy. ...or would you rather keep the current system and purchase two copies of each movie (one for your DVD player & one for your iPod)?

If people would just learn to compromise this world would be a better place.

[matticus008]

We don't need DRM because it's the principle of the dictators trying to impose a meaningless standard that houses no value within the files we are trying to playback.
The content doesn't belong to you. Someone else created them and retains ownership of that content. It is being shared with you by contractual means, secured by the government on your behalf so that you don't have to negotiate your own license. Without getting into a philosophical argument of whether or not that should be the case, the fact of the matter is that you don't own the content you're trying to play back. You own the disc and a set of rights to use that content. Those rights are more complicated than most lay people can understand, because they lack perspective. No single statute or online summary accurately depicts the situation in its entirety. Yes, you have fair use rights; simultaneously, the owners have distribution rights, which do include platform access.

There is a difference between wanting something to play on your intended device and wanting to have complete and total control of a multimillion dollar film for $20. There currently are some problems with the balance, but "total consumer ownership" is not the answer and is not going to happen.

Unlike a pure property transfer, your software purchase involves a particular license (which accounts for the bulk of the purchase price). Without that license, all you're buying is a sliver of plastic in a little box, worth about a dollar.

When DVD drives started appearing for computers the MPAA made the requirements for obtaining the key to write a DVD player application so onerous that no application with a GNU license could comply. It wasn’t until the key was cracked that you could play a commercial DVD on a Linux box. Given that, I think it is actually currently illegal to even play a DVD on a Linux box. If you’re going to exclude the open source community you can’t really claim to be interoperable.
"The open source community" (by which you actually mean the most militant and extremist portions which will not accept proprietary software under any conditions) has chosen to exclude itself. There is no reason why a software publisher could not license the keys and make a player for Linux (Flash and an assortment of other technologies, along with graphics card drivers are all proprietary software released at no cost to the Linux community).

Some segments refuse to use any closed-source content at all (which automatically excludes ANY encrypted content), and that's their choice. But it's a choice with consequences, and other businesses are not responsible for that isolation.

[Mr. Amiga500]

I desperately want the ability to rip movies from DVD to store on HD similar to music in iTunes. I've been wanting that for years. It'd be great to have all your movies/TV episodes in a list and you just select the one you want and it starts playing instantly - WITHOUT ALL THE STUPID FBI WARNINGS! It is extremely annoying to see American FBI warnings (FBI has no jurisdiction outside US) and see them every single time I put a disc in - and most times you can't skip it.

My (expensive) DVD player "crashes" all the time when there's a hair or piece of dust on a DVD. It actually crashes and I have to unplug it because it won't turn off and the screen is all corrupted. If you can rip DVDs, you know there's no chance of a scratch, hair or dust to suddenly cause screwups.

An added bonus would be if there is a standardized menu system for all movies within the "iMovies" software - so you don't have to see all those badly designed and annoying custom menus (that have cut-scenes you can't skip!). Also, you should be able to skip to any part of the movie quickly, similar to the music "time slider" (or whatever you call it) on iPod.

I actually thought that this is what the AppleTV would do... before it came out as the lame streaming thing that it is.

[SiliconAddict]

In other news surgeons have successfully grafted a jet engine and wings onto a pig. Trial flights are expected any day.

Seriously though, can you say lip service? The MPAA's idea about fair use would simply be a means of putting pay per view DRM on media. So you have two options. Leave it on the disk or rip it and pay for each time you view the content. Its all about profit and NOT in any way shape or form about fair use. This is a marketing stunt because there is speculation that most music labels will be going DRMless in the next 6 months. (http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070425-exec-music-labels-about-to-cave-in-the-next-six-months-on-drm.html) the spotlight will immediately turn to the MPAA and the inevitable question will be asked. This is nothing more then a preemptive strike trying to make them look like the good guys. I call bull pellets.

[SiliconAddict]

I desperately want the ability to rip movies from DVD to store on HD similar to music in iTunes. I've been wanting that for years. It'd be great to have all your movies/TV episodes in a list and you just select the one you want and it starts playing instantly - WITHOUT ALL THE STUPID FBI WARNINGS! It is extremely annoying to see American FBI warnings (FBI has no jurisdiction outside US) and see them every single time I put a disc in - and most times you can't skip it.

My (expensive) DVD player "crashes" all the time when there's a hair or piece of dust on a DVD. It actually crashes and I have to unplug it because it won't turn off and the screen is all corrupted. If you can rip DVDs, you know there's no chance of a scratch, hair or dust to suddenly cause screwups.

An added bonus would be if there is a standardized menu system for all movies within the "iMovies" software - so you don't have to see all those badly designed and annoying custom menus (that have cut-scenes you can't skip!). Also, you should be able to skip to any part of the movie quickly, similar to the music "time slider" (or whatever you call it) on iPod.

I actually thought that this is what the AppleTV would do... before it came out as the lame streaming thing that it is.

Umm I hate to break this to you but you can now as long as you aren't a boy scount about "OMG I'm violating the DMCA! I'm going to burn in heck!!!! ARRRRRRGGGHHHH!!!"
As for what software you would use....one word... Handbrake (http://handbrake.m0k.org/) I've got about 2 dozen of my 580 movies ripped onto my MBP. Sometime this summer I will be buying one of those new TB drives that just came out and ripping all of them.

[Mr. Amiga500]

Umm I hate to break this to you but you can now as long as you aren't a boy scount about "OMG I'm violating the DMCA! I'm going to burn in heck!!!! ARRRRRRGGGHHHH!!!"
As for what software you would use....one word... Handbrake (http://handbrake.m0k.org/) I've got about 2 dozen of my 580 movies ripped onto my MBP. Sometime this summer I will be buying one of those new TB drives that just came out and ripping all of them.

Ah ha! Nice. Thanks for letting me know. :D (why did you hate to break it to me?) I'll check it out when I buy a Mac... and a few monster harddrives.

No, I'm not a "boy scount"... whatever that is. And I'm quite happy to violate the DMCA. I'd only rip the discs I own. If any movie company ever complained to me about that, then I'd start ripping movies I don't own... just to get revenge for their stupidity.

[matticus008]

If any movie company ever complained to me about that, then I'd start ripping movies I don't own... just to get revenge for their stupidity.
If any movie company ever had a bone to pick with you, pirating would be the only way you could get movies, because you certainly couldn't afford them.

I'm all for rejecting the DMCA on principle, and even fully supportive of people who choose to violate it--with one caveat. If you break the law, you accept the consequences. Obviously the DMCA doesn't apply to you in Canada (yet), but the sentiment is the same with whatever civil and/or criminal liabilities you'd have depending on your country of residence.

I admit that I speed every day of my life, but I certainly would never lie about it if I got caught. I'd apologize and be courteous and admit that I wasn't watching my speed. If I got a ticket though, I'd pay it. Same goes here. If you're willing to accept the possible consequence of thousands of dollars in fines and tens of thousands of dollars in legal fees, have at it.

Meanwhile, a number of us are working to get the law fixed. Some of the DMCA provisions have been pared back already, and other revisions lie in the future. Take the thirty minutes to write a thoughtful and logical letter to your representative(s). You can copy it to all of them. I assure you that they are read by staffers and they do come into play in meetings behind closed doors and with attorneys. Some letters in particular are archived in bill legislative histories, which are used daily by lawyers in practice and kept for decades in storage.

[goosnarrggh]

Hi Stella, I understand that for a computer, but what about a hardware DVD player. It does not sound practical. Also what is the motivation for the customer to go thru the trouble of downloading a patch and applying it to every dedicated DVD player?

Also the new patch may break old titles and that would piss the consumer. The avarage consumer would not know how to do all of that including going back to the old key, to me is not practical. They (MPAA) have to comeup with something and live with it.

You've actually raised an interesting point.
In order for a HDDVD or BluRay player to be licensed to play back encrypted content in the first place, it is required to pass on an equivalent strength of content protection on all of its digital high definition outputs. Each model of player (hardware and software) is assigned a unique key with which the HD content can be decrypted, after demonstrating the measures they've taken to protect the downstream integrity of the content protection.

There is actually a supply of billions of possible keys, any of which could potentially be used to decrypt any HDDVD or BluRay content. Keys become invalid proactively by means of a blacklist distributed with every title.

If it is ever discovered that any player's content protection has been cracked, then it is possible to add that player's key to the blacklist of all future titles. It would be impossible to play back any newer discs on any device whose content protection key is included on that disc's blacklist.

Older discs would continue to function, but newer discs simply wouldn't -- until such a time as the manufacturer is able to release a patch including a newly assigned key. Note that by assigning a new key, you are NOT breaking compatibility with any older titles -- since that replacement key wouldn't have yet been added to any existing title's blacklist.

The patch may be achieved by means of a product recall. Or maybe the manufacturer could mail out a free CD containing the patch to every customer who actually sent in their registration card. Or maybe when the player discovers that its key has been blacklisted, it could display a message on the screen with instructions to the customer on how to obtain service.

[shamino]

If I'm going to go to jail for ripping my own DVDs, I should probably just pirate them, since I'm going to jail anyway, right?
If all you do with the rips is use them personally, nobody is going to send you to jail. Not because it's legal (it isn't), but because law enforcement has better things to do than investigate and prosecute cases where there are no real damages.
Quite frankly, they can't do anything to make it worse than it already is.
They could make it all pay-per-view/subscription. DivX tried to do that with movies. It was a colossal failure. This should've been the wake up call that the public isn't going to buy every hairbrained scheme that gets invented, but it clearly wasn't.
Quite differently, DRM has worked very well for the movie industry
Not really. Sure, it keeps some casual home users from giving copies to friends, but it does nothing to stop the distribution of pirated DVDs and internet file sharing. In some cases, because the DRM was broken years ago (and anybody who cares can easily download CSS-removing softwre), and in some cases, because the content was pirated without any DVD at all (masters stolen from studio servers, camcorders in theaters, etc.)
Keep in mind, the movie industry is digitally closed - every digital movie shipped today is shipped with DRM, making piracy quite difficult for the average consumer.
Not difficult at all. Software to do this is one Google search away. Some people here have actually posted links to DVD-copying applications. DRM does nothing but inconvenience honest customers.
Are you trying to tell me that, if DRM were completely removed from all movies, pirating would not increase?
I don't think it would increase by any significant amount. Especially if they keep up with prosecuting those who redistribute these copied discs.
I'm all for DRM, and other anti-piracy mechanisms such as activation, when it really is fair and does not impede on my personal usage.
When the content producer uses it to decide what brand/model player you can use, then it's impeding on your personal usage.
DRM doesn't have to restrict interoperability - its just like that for digital music. There can be a standard created.
Not if you want it to work. If dozens of players all have the DRM-removing software, then there will be no way to keep the DRM from being broken. DRM, by its nature, requires closely guarded secrets. When those secrets are known (and distributing them worldwide, with or without NDA contracts) the DRM will collapse soon afterwards.
HDVD / BlueRay has standard DRM. All players must support that DRM otherwise they don't play. A few weeks ago a patch was made to the encryption after it was cracked. The encryption key was changed and all software based players and hardware players must have a software update.
So if my player isn't attached to the internet, it will stop playing new content? Sounds like a great plan to force consumers to repeatedly buy new players before the old ones break. Sounds like a lousy attempt at accomplishing anything else.
Seriously though, can you say lip service? The MPAA's idea about fair use would simply be a means of putting pay per view DRM on media.
You mean like DivX?

[shamino]

... Each model of player (hardware and software) is assigned a unique key with which that HD content is encrypted before being passed on.

There is actually a supply of billions of possible keys, any of which could potentially be used to decrypt any HDDVD or BluRay content. Keys become invalid proactively by means of a blacklist distributed with every title.

If it is ever discovered that any player's content protection has been cracked, then it is possible to add that player's key to the blacklist of all future titles.
They tried this scheme with DVD. When the DeCSS program came out that cracked ALL of the keys, that was the end of that.

I don't think any of his HD-DRM stuff will work any better.

[slughead]

If all you do with the rips is use them personally, nobody is going to send you to jail. Not because it's legal (it isn't), but because law enforcement has better things to do than investigate and prosecute cases where there are no real damages.

According to the article (and what I've read elsewhere), it IS a crime to break encryption on DVDs, even those you own.

That's why they can't sell DVD ripping software.

The article is talking about the MPAA eventually allowing people to do this, but only in a certain way that allows for DRM on the resulting file. I, for one, will not play ball.

I'm not worried about getting busted for ripping my own personal DVD collection (you're right, law enforcement wont bother), but that doesn't mean I'm not pissed that the DMCA exists and makes something like this a crime.

[BPS, Inc.]

Could it be that they are losing court cases? Kaleidescape is a company that sells a dvd storage system.

MOUNTAIN VIEW, CA – March 29, 2007 — Kaleidescape Inc. is pleased to announce that today, after a seven-day trial, Judge Leslie C. Nichols of the Santa Clara Superior Court ruled that Kaleidescape is in full compliance with the DVD Copy Control Association's license to the Content Scramble System, the method used to encrypt video and audio data on DVDs. As part of his statement of decision, Judge Nichols noted Kaleidescape’s good faith in its efforts to ensure that its products were fully compliant.

"Kaleidescape has been operating in the shadow of the DVD CCA's allegations for over three years. We are gratified that after hearing all of the evidence, the Judge has completely vindicated our position," said Michael Malcolm, founder, chairman and CEO of Kaleidescape.

http://www.kaleidescape.com/company/pr/PR-20070329-DVDCCA.html

[ATG]

Interoperable DRM? Now how does that work?

[shamino]

According to the article (and what I've read elsewhere), it IS a crime to break encryption on DVDs, even those you own.
I think I said that. Maybe next time I'll put it in 50-point blinking text so it will get noticed.
I'm not worried about getting busted for ripping my own personal DVD collection (you're right, law enforcement wont bother), but that doesn't mean I'm not pissed that the DMCA exists and makes something like this a crime.
Funny, you sounded concerned when you wrote:
If I'm going to go to jail for ripping my own DVDs, I should probably just pirate them, since I'm going to jail anyway, right?
I was just pointing out that you're not going to jail anyway, unless you do something really stupid (like sell the copies or confess to law enforcement).

[SiliconAddict]

You mean like DivX?

Like DivX sans the hardware. Plus DivX was never really ever backed by any of the major studios other then Disney/Buena Vista. It was Circuit City's brain child that never took off because at the time it was seen as a competitor against DVD itself.

[Maccus Aurelius]

Well I am certainly glad I had a copy of a DVD file for a disc that broke a few days ago (War of the Worlds). I simply put the uncompressed file in Toast Titanium, and voila, instant replacement. Oh MactheRipper, how I love thee.

[twoodcc]

seems like good news to me. better to make it legal to rip dvds

[matticus008]

seems like good news to me. better to make it legal to rip dvds
Well you clearly didn't actually read the article, because it doesn't make anything you do legal.

It also isn't illegal to rip DVDs anyway; it is only illegal to break the encryption. Contrary to popular belief, breaking encryption has absolutely nothing to do with fair use. Every player authorized to play DVDs (by virtue of supporting the commercial discs) is licensed to decrypt the DVDs for playback. There actually are legal DVD players for Linux (Intervideo makes one, I believe), released in the same proprietary fashion as Adobe Flash, some drivers, and a number of other software titles made by commercial companies.

There is no need for programs currently distributed on the Internet to break the encryption. Making a personal copy, as allowed by the HRA, means making a personal copy, not extracting the contents sans encryption. If these tools left the encryption intact at the end, there would be no real problem. This company is trying to do that exact thing, and a court is simply reiterating that it's acceptable under the law.

[shamino]

There is no need for programs currently distributed on the Internet to break the encryption. Making a personal copy, as allowed by the HRA, means making a personal copy, not extracting the contents sans encryption. If these tools left the encryption intact at the end, there would be no real problem. This company is trying to do that exact thing, and a court is simply reiterating that it's acceptable under the law.
Except that the firmware in DVD burners is explicitly designed to not burn the part of the disc where the CSS keys are stored, so you can't make a copy without decryption (unless you hack the drive's firmware and/or use an expensive "mastering" drive.)

What has been proposed in the original article is not a way to duplicate a disc without decrypting (which would completely undermine the point of CSS), but a way to decrypt the data and simultaneously apply some other form of DRM to the result.

[matticus008]

Except that the firmware in DVD burners is explicitly designed to not burn the part of the disc where the CSS keys are stored
They're designed not to copy the part where the keys are stored. They certainly read and write these sectors, otherwise they would be of little use in storing data. They could easily write a new key for authorized copies.
What has been proposed in the original article is not a way to duplicate a disc without decrypting (which would completely undermine the point of CSS), but a way to decrypt the data and simultaneously apply some other form of DRM to the result.
Which is the exact same thing. A licensed copier would decrypt the disc, copy the disc, and reinsert the appropriate encryption at the end. The result is a product that does not break the encryption on the disc. "Breaking the encryption" is not the same as "decrypting." "Breaking" involves taking it out and throwing it away, whereas "decrypting" is part of the normal process for playback (and indeed for a hypothetical backup/storage system).

The problem with copying is access control. One license to the media should and does correspond to one usable copy of the contents. The reality is, though, that creating multiple usable copies leaves room for unlawful use. Activating/deactivating copies (a la iTunes account management) is certainly a solution, but it's one that standalone players cannot embrace ("Please connect your DVD player to the Internet to play this disc" wouldn't go over well with older generations of customers). There's also the "trust the customer" approach, but customers seem to have forgotten their end of the deal. It's not their movie. Metonymy seems to have clouded the minds of modern people--it's their licensed copy of the movie, a copy which does not grant them full control.

In my opinion, the best solution is to forget about trying to prevent copying and ditch physical media altogether. Give people a good system for casual sharing with friends (for example, mark a mix as "for Sarah Generic" and aggressively pursue people in possession of large quantities of unauthorized content. In a more connected world, users would be able to transfer their content to any of their devices, and even access it from guest devices. DRM as a concept actually opens up a lot of interesting doors (like the Sony demo where an individual begins watching in his living room, moves to the kitchen and picks up at the same moment, takes it with him on an iPod-like thing, and accesses his home content from the train). The technology for the good parts of DRM isn't all the way here yet, and its implementation as a lockout has completely soured its reputation.

[shamino]

They're designed not to copy the part where the keys are stored. They certainly read and write these sectors, otherwise they would be of little use in storing data. They could easily write a new key for authorized copies.
That's just not true. Those sectors are read-only. How is a bare drive in a computer supposed to know if the data is original or taken from another disc?

It is impossible to make a CSS-protected disc using a consumer drive, even with your own original content.

[matticus008]

It is impossible to make a CSS-protected disc using a consumer drive, even with your own original content.
Only because the media that is sold to the general public already has those sectors written with a "blank" key. If they were not pre-filled, there would be no issue. It's not impossible; it's just currently not permitted.

[shamino]

Only because the media that is sold to the general public already has those sectors written with a "blank" key. If they were not pre-filled, there would be no issue. It's not impossible; it's just currently not permitted.
And now your circular logic is complete.

The industry won't allow you to make a CSS disc, therefore you have to break the DRM in order to make a copy. The same entities that invented the DRM are the ones that make it impossible to make copies without breaking that DRM, and they are the same entities that pushed through the laws to make the process illegal.

What you are claiming is possible will only be possible if the entire movie industry gets a brain transplant. A "licensed copier" can't be developed without replacing consumers' drives and media. That won't ever happen because there are laws mandating that the drives and media disallow the creation of protected content. The entities applying the DRM are the same entities that got the laws written, and they're the same entities that would have to license this copier. It's inconceivable that they would be willing to undo the entire rat's-nest of policies that would have to come apart in order to make such a copier.

And this ignores the fact that once the technical blocks (drives and media) are removed, there would be absolutely nothing preventing the development of an unlicensed copier that leaves the encryption intact.