Apple's Subnotebook 'Delayed' Until Late 2007/Early 2008?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Appleinsider (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/04/27/resetting_the_timeline_for_apples_ultra_portable_initiative.html) now believes that Apple's "ultra-thin and lightweight notebook" with NAND flash may take more time than originally projected.

The rumor site had previously believed (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/16/apple-sub-notebook-nearing-release/) that a "lighter and more compact than any other Mac portable Apple has put forth in recent years" was on track near WWDC (June 2007).

Citing a maturing timeline, people familiar with the initiative now have the chic notebook tracking for the latter half of the year, with a contingency plan in place to transition the device into a Macworld 2008 product should engineers require the additional time.

This is in spite of recent news (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/23/santa-rosa-shipping-next-month-may/) that Intel's Santa Rosa initiative will be shipping as early as next month. The Santa Rosa platform similarly provides NAND-flash caching to improve boot times and battery lives.

If true, the latest rumor, indicates that Apple's own version of this technology will not see light of day until late 2007 or early 2008.

This timeframe is also consistent with analyst reports (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/08/flash-based-apple-laptops-again/) of the same:

The maker of the popular iPod music player and Macintosh computers hopes to introduce so-called flash memory in small computers known as subnotebooks in the second half of 2007

The first rumors of a NAND-flash caching Mac laptop came in January 2006 (http://www.macrumors.com/2006/01/05/apple-notebook-with-robson-caching/) from Digitimes, but has since been corroborated by multiple other reports. Just today, Digitimes (http://digitimes.com/NewsShow/NewsSearch.asp?DocID=PD000000000000000000000000001517&query=NAND+) reports that Apple has been negotiating with Samsung for volume purchasing of more NAND flash.

Apple is asking for 400-500 million 4Gbit NAND flash equivalent chips from Samsung, the sources said. Since the volume requested by Apple is 10-15% more than what the two parties agreed earlier, Samsung is not 100% sure its capacity can meet the need, the sources indicated.

While these supplies are presumed to be for the iPod and iPhone, Apple could also be planning for future NAND-flash based laptops.

[DMann]

Better late than 2008........... would love to have seen them at WWDC:rolleyes:

[theheadguy]

The sooner the better. I consider this good news... There really isn't anything solid to discuss lately.

[PlaceofDis]

better late than never!

well i certainly hope there is some truth to this and the product sees the light of day.

[sikkinixx]

Common Apple theme these days : delays.

[FF_productions]

I probably won't buy it but it seems pretty cool.

Funny how they can say it is delayed when it hasn't even been announced by Apple yet.

[theheadguy]

Funny how they can say it is delayed when it hasn't even been announced by Apple yet.
It can certainly be delayed without being announced, it's just not pleasing to read since we don't know without a doubt if it exists or not.

[pknz]

Spelling error, cashing?

[mkrishnan]

Who knows? It seems like weird never-die rumors about Apple have actually had a pretty good track record of late. God knows, this is the one I want to come true. :D

I wonder whether it will really end up using a "light" version of OS X like the iPhone does.

[Wild-Bill]

Common Apple theme these days : delays.

Another common Apple theme: sink all resources into iPhone. Allow all other product lines to suffer.

[Peace]

All these delays bring me to believe all new apple hardware is being optimized for Leopard.

[IJ Reilly]

Another common Apple theme: sink all resources into iPhone. Allow all other product lines to suffer.

Even products that don't actually exist. Oh, the horror!

[Erasmus]

Gimme.

Santa Rosa Macbook Pro.

Now. Now. Now now now now nownownownownownownownownow.

What!!! No SR MBP!!!

Why, Steve, Why? Why do you hate your eyes so??? Is seeing really so terrible???

:D

[steve_hill4]

I'd love a sub-MacBook Pro, (Al casing). Since I have no plans for maybe another 12 months or more, I can easily wait for MWSF 08 or 09. Would be nice to see one soon though for others and to let it bed in a bit for myself.

[OwlsAndApples]

Ahh..more delays. Bliss :rolleyes:

[Project]

400m-500m chips? Is that a typo? Or another potential ET cartridge for the Atari situation

[Scarlet Fever]

i used a mates Vaio sub-notebook the other day. Its really cool, but its damn thick for what it is; its thicker than my MacBook!

An Apple sub-notebook would be awesome, if they could keep the price down a bit.

[emptyCup]

Common Apple theme these days : delays.

Another common theme: Make up rumors of non-existent products and when they don't appear make up rumors of delays. As far as I know there has been only one delay: Leopard. All the rest are just people who hope that wishing will make it so and then get frustrated when it doesn't.

[papadopolis1024]

If there really is one I wonder how much they will sell it for. If it was in the 800$ (US) I would jump on that train. But I doubt it will run that low.

[sikkinixx]

Another common theme: Make up rumors of non-existent products and when they don't appear make up rumors of delays. As far as I know there has been only one delay: Leopard. All the rest are just people who hope that wishing will make it so and then get frustrated when it doesn't.

True, but it still sucks reading how full-size video iPods are delayed, SR notebooks keep falling further and further back into '07, Leopard not till the fall, Apple TV shipping late, etc even if they are just rumors. Perhaps Q3/4 will be the half year of the Mac.

[PlaceofDis]

If there really is one I wonder how much they will sell it for. If it was in the 800$ (US) I would jump on that train. But I doubt it will run that low.

unlikely. subnotebooks typically cost more than the normal run of the mill 'books but depends on how small we're talking here too. and what components they're using.

[papadopolis1024]

unlikely. subnotebooks typically cost more than the normal run of the mill 'books but depends on how small we're talking here too. and what components they're using.

Ya Im just hoping for somthing that would not have alot of power just enough for internet, word docs, and maybe movies.

[4np]

I was under the impression that the sub notebook would be flash only (no hd for storage but flash). This would be different from santa rosa as that would be hd + flash caching. So, I would say santa rosa mbp's with flash caching are still expected for june/july release...

[robPOD]

Why the delays apple???? i used a subnotebook 11" sony vaio laptop the other day, it felt way to small to use comfortably.

[TantalizedMind]

I'd love a sub-MacBook Pro.

Isn't that called the MacBook? ;)

[O. Frabjous-Dey]

Why the delays apple???? i used a subnotebook 11" sony vaio laptop the other day, it felt way to small to use comfortably.

I've got a 9" subnotebook from Fujitsu and the only complaint I have about its form factor is the screen resolution. If Apple's working on resolution independence in Leopard, we can expect to see pixels being jammed tighter together next year. Maybe.

As much as I would love an ultraportable from Apple, that desire is at odds with my need for a machine with room for an actual graphics card. Argh!

[johnee]

I'm thinking sub-notebooks will replace macbooks.

3 lines of laptops might be too much. The price point would have to be $1000

[ktlx]

This is in spite of recent news (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/23/santa-rosa-shipping-next-month-may/) that Intel's Santa Rosa initiative will be shipping as early as next month. The Santa Rosa platform similarly provides NAND-flash caching to improve boot times and battery lives.

If true, the latest rumor, indicates that Apple's own version of this technology will not see light of day until late 2007 or early 2008.
For the life of me, I cannot see the leap from an article saying a a flash-only subnotebook release being delayed to saying Apple won't use Intel's Robson/Turbo Cache technology until late this year/early next year. The two technologies are only related in the sense they both use flash memories.

[iSee]

better late than never!

well i certainly hope there is some truth to this and the product sees the light of day.

This is an unannounced product with no public schedule to be delayed. It may not even exist. :rolleyes:

Common Apple theme these days : delays.

This is an unannounced product with no public schedule to be delayed. It may not even exist. :rolleyes:

Ahh..more delays. Bliss :rolleyes:

This is an unannounced product with no public schedule to be delayed. It may not even exist. :rolleyes:

Why the delays apple???? i used a subnotebook 11" sony vaio laptop the other day, it felt way to small to use comfortably.

This is an unannounced product with no public schedule to be delayed. It may not even exist. :rolleyes:

You should direct your complaints toward AI for inaccurate rumoring...

[nagromme]

I want this machine bad! Let's hope the rumors are false :)

I'd probably buy this over an iPhone, even--though both are inevitable for me.

I want it to have a real GPU and full pro features--and if that means it has to cost more than a 15" then so be it.

[jesteraver]

Apple is delaying everything, argh.

:apple: tv
iPhone
Leopard

Now this, what next?

[shawnce]

Now this, what next?

Well... how about more posts bitching about how a unannounced, unofficial product, is delayed for unverifiable reasons...

[TheAnswer]

I've heard from reliable sources that the next big rumors from Appleinsider, which were scheduled to appear May 1st, now face unknown problems and will be delayed until just prior to WWDC. The problems in the supply pipeline are believed to be similar to those that effected Thinksecret, namely the need to continue to publish rumors and generate ad revenue despite absence of credible sources. Despite these reports, analyst Pshaw You expects Appleinsider's revenue to remain steady..."Despite the recent setbacks, we believe that Appleinsider's ability to generate rumors from re-hashed analyst speak provides a viable income stream for the rumor generator in these uncertain times."

[Yonizzle]

I've got a 9" subnotebook from Fujitsu and the only complaint I have about its form factor is the screen resolution. If Apple's working on resolution independence in Leopard, we can expect to see pixels being jammed tighter together next year. Maybe.
I was thinking along similar lines. I figured if the project exists at all, it probably wasn't gonna come out before Leopard. I doubt they'd go lower than 1024 x 768 in terms of actual pixels, but they'd have to up the density to something that doesn't work with Tiger.

Sigh.. I really want a new Mac laptop, and a subnotebook would be ideal, but I don't think I can wait past early summer. I guess I'll get the next MacBook and try to sell it if a "MacBook mini" shows up later.

Apple is delaying everything, argh.

:apple: tv
iPhone
Leopard

Chill out; iPhone isn't "delayed" until a) Apple says so or b) June ends without it shipping..

[SiliconAddict]

Obviously it was delayed because of the iPhone. :p

[scrambledwonder]

I've heard from reliable sources that the next big rumors from Appleinsider, which were scheduled to appear May 1st, now face unknown problems and will be delayed until just prior to WWDC. The problems in the supply pipeline are believed to be similar to those that effected Thinksecret, namely the need to continue to publish rumors and generate ad revenue despite absence of credible sources. Despite these reports, analyst Pshaw You expects Appleinsider's revenue to remain steady..."Despite the recent setbacks, we believe that Appleinsider's ability to generate rumors from re-hashed analyst speak provides a viable income stream for the rumor generator in these uncertain times."

Brilliant!

[scrambledwonder]

Oh well. I didn't expect a tiny Apple laptop anyway. I just want a MacBook Pro with a better screen. The 15-inch has a bad screen. And the MacBook is PLASTIC. Yuck.

I want an aluminum 13-inch MacBook. Any word on that?

-D

[quigleybc]

so the rumor is the delay of something that was rumored
......


I love MacRumors :D

[BigPrince]

for the love of god

[Maccus Aurelius]

Ugh, first Apple delays Leopard, then the flash notebooks.....at this rate we'll never get those iReplicators. :mad:

[aswitcher]

Next year for sure. Unless the OSX has been delayed till October for a simultaneous release.

[papadopolis1024]

For all the people saying that its not a real product so it can not be delayed, It can be. Apple dose not have to show it to you to for it to be there. Yes it is a rumor but this site is MacRumors so dont complain about "this is a rumor its not true" cause what do you think the point of this site is!!! some people are DUMB!

[DaBrain]

I've heard from reliable sources that the next big rumors from Appleinsider, which were scheduled to appear May 1st, now face unknown problems and will be delayed until just prior to WWDC. The problems in the supply pipeline are believed to be similar to those that effected Thinksecret, namely the need to continue to publish rumors and generate ad revenue despite absence of credible sources. Despite these reports, analyst Pshaw You expects Appleinsider's revenue to remain steady..."Despite the recent setbacks, we believe that Appleinsider's ability to generate rumors from re-hashed analyst speak provides a viable income stream for the rumor generator in these uncertain times."

Thanks I need a good Laugh!--))) Well done!:)

[Rocketman]

atnn

[IJ Reilly]

Apple dose not have to show it to you to for it to be there.

That's not a rumor, that's a mirage.

[siurpeeman]

The sooner the better. I consider this good news... There really isn't anything solid to discuss lately.

i also think this is good news. any rumors of a new product, however far away, has to be good, no?

[BigPrince]

I am not really sold on the idea of Apple forgetting about there computer roots.


But everyday it seems like the case gets stronger and stronger.

[iSee]

I've heard from reliable sources that the next big rumors from Appleinsider, which were scheduled to appear May 1st, now face unknown problems and will be delayed until just prior to WWDC. The problems in the supply pipeline are believed to be similar to those that effected Thinksecret, namely the need to continue to publish rumors and generate ad revenue despite absence of credible sources. Despite these reports, analyst Pshaw You expects Appleinsider's revenue to remain steady..."Despite the recent setbacks, we believe that Appleinsider's ability to generate rumors from re-hashed analyst speak provides a viable income stream for the rumor generator in these uncertain times."

LOL!!!! This is classic :D :D :D

[jwa276]

Sweet! My C2D MacBook Pro will hold it's new-ish value for a bit longer! Wohoo!!

My buddy at work (who is / has been waiting for the SR MacBook Pro's) is gonna be pissed though. I know I'm biased because I still have Apple's most recent MBP revision (and I don't want it to be outdated quite yet), but it makes sense to me that Apple would work on getting Leopard up to speed with flash caching rather than trying to concentrate development on makinig Tiger support it–especially with iPhone on the horizon!

I guess we still might see it before Leopard, but I have been thinking we wouldn't see Santa Rosa in Apple products for a while. This rumor seems to confirm my doubt of the earlier rumor post about Santa Rosa MacBook Pro's at WWDC.

[pieman02]

Well I finally joined the forums I read them so often...anyway I really hope this lil laptop thing sees the light of day - I wrote my technical report on flash memory in laptops last term and I wanna see Apple prove all my Windows-using nay-sayin firends wrong that it can/will be done :D

[MikeTheC]

Something I really don't understand, though it might at first seem to fly in the face of common sense, is why people want smaller, thinner, less substantial portable computers.

I can understand weight reduction -- nobody likes a heavy notebook.

I can understand conservation of physical mass -- nobody likes a fat notebook.

But even thinnner than they already are? Aren't they easy enough to damage as they presently are? How does making them thinner and lighter improve in this area? I mean, if Apple sold $300 laptops, then yeah, maybe it wouldn't matter too much if you dropped and killed it, but considering the product line we're talking about is likely to be >$1000, maybe even >$2000, they're not what I'd call "disposable". (Unless you're a millionare, maybe.)

Someone earlier here mentioned a Sony sub-notebook. Remember that Sony is *not* -- I repeat, *not* -- either a true innovator or pioneer. They simply try and re-work other company's stuff. Apple has Sony beat, and probably always will. And besides, Sony considers their notebook line not so much a "computer" product but an entertainment or experience product. The philosophy within Sony is very, very different than at Apple.

Anyhow, sorry to get sidetracked on that bit. However, getting back to the thinness factor, I mean just how thin does a notebook need to be? I own a PowerBook G4; I've owned an iBook G3 and I've used MacBooks sufficiently enough to not see a real benefit to be gained by going thinner. I also would see no benefit in going smaller, but that's a conversation for another time and place.

[sushi]

Something I really don't understand, though it might at first seem to fly in the face of common sense, is why people want smaller, thinner, less substantial portable computers.
<snip>
In places like Japan, smaller is better in many cases.

I am on the road a lot. I used to carry my PB15. Now I carry my Sharp MM20 because it is much more effective for me to use. It is lighter, smaller, better wireless connectivity, and very sturdy.

Now I use my PB15 at home and the MM20 on the road.

And right now, if Apple does not introduce a subnotebook model, I am looking to get a Thinkpad X60s series laptop.

Note, I would much rather get an Apple laptop but they currently do not have a laptop that fits my needs. And guess what, many of my Japanese friends feel the same. Apple will do well if they introduce a 12 inch laptop.

[Whistleway]

Every rumor these days is about the inevitable delays. Did Apple bite more than it can chew with the silly iPhone?

[iW00t]

Even products that don't actually exist. Oh, the horror!

Does the iPhone currently exist?

Last I checked OS X "Leopard" and iLife do exist. Oh, and it is 2007 by the way.

[Anawrahta]

But even thinnner than they already are? Aren't they easy enough to damage as they presently are? How does making them thinner and lighter improve in this area? I mean, if Apple sold $300 laptops, then yeah, maybe it wouldn't matter too much if you dropped and killed it, but considering the product line we're talking about is likely to be >$1000, maybe even >$2000, they're not what I'd call "disposable". (Unless you're a millionare, maybe.)

The whole idea of subcompacts is that they're made out of strong composite materials, like Panasonic's tough books, or Sony's carbon VAIOs. That said, who drops their laptop? I've never dropped any of mine, and if you're clumsy enough to drop it hard enough that it breaks, then you should pay the price.

Someone earlier here mentioned a Sony sub-notebook. Remember that Sony is *not* -- I repeat, *not* -- either a true innovator or pioneer. They simply try and re-work other company's stuff. Apple has Sony beat, and probably always will. And besides, Sony considers their notebook line not so much a "computer" product but an entertainment or experience product.

Apple bought over designers FROM Sony to design their current crop of notebooks. The very first Powerbook was DESIGNED and built BY Sony. To say that Sony's electronics division is not a true innovator is simply ignorant. Heard of the CD?

The subcompact VAIOs are not entertainment experience computers, they are meant for people working on the go, and the Japanese market that prefers more compact devices. Apple is shrinking in the world's second largest market. They need this computer over here.

[Earendil]

How can a yet to be announced product, that is only rumor and not fact, be "delayed" ?!

[localoid]

Well... although rumor has it that Apple's rumored ultra-mobile notebook may be delayed, hopes for (some) new notebooks (coming soon) from Apple isn't lost!

At least not according to this Digitimes article (http://www.digitimes.com/bits_chips/a20070330PD206.html), which claims that Apple "is going to introduce mass production of its new series of notebooks in the second quarter." ;)

[sushi]

At least not according to this Digitimes article (http://www.digitimes.com/bits_chips/a20070330PD206.html), which claims that Apple "is going to introduce mass production of its new series of notebooks in the second quarter." ;)
Let's hope so!

[iMikeT]

Rumors, rumors. That's all this is. Either way, people cry...:rolleyes:

[GanleyBurger]

This baby's got it all...

[xJulianx]

I would love a sub notebook from Apple. I'd jump straight on it, I have a 13" MacBook for on the road, but it is a bit bigger and heavier than what would be ideal.

[karlfranz]

Great! Now the same idiots who complain about iPhone, iLife, and iWork being "late" will complain that Apple is again unable to deliver on time. Nevermind that this is yet another fantasy product that (thus far) Apple has never confessed to be releasing. Some people refuse to understand the concept that these stories are all R-U-M-O-R-S. :rolleyes:

[karlfranz]

For all the people saying that its not a real product so it can not be delayed, It can be. Apple dose not have to show it to you to for it to be there. Yes it is a rumor but this site is MacRumors so dont complain about "this is a rumor its not true" cause what do you think the point of this site is!!! some people are DUMB!

QED :rolleyes:

[karlfranz]

Apple is delaying everything, argh.

:apple: tv
iPhone
Leopard

Now this, what next?
Show me a single place that proves that (to date) Apple has delayed the release of the iPhone.

Another common theme: Make up rumors of non-existent products and when they don't appear make up rumors of delays. As far as I know there has been only one delay: Leopard. All the rest are just people who hope that wishing will make it so and then get frustrated when it doesn't.
Finally, somebody who gets it.

I've heard from reliable sources that the next big rumors from Appleinsider, which were scheduled to appear May 1st, now face unknown problems and will be delayed until just prior to WWDC. The problems in the supply pipeline are believed to be similar to those that effected Thinksecret, namely the need to continue to publish rumors and generate ad revenue despite absence of credible sources. Despite these reports, analyst Pshaw You expects Appleinsider's revenue to remain steady..."Despite the recent setbacks, we believe that Appleinsider's ability to generate rumors from re-hashed analyst speak provides a viable income stream for the rumor generator in these uncertain times."

BRAVO! I nominate "TheAnswer" for the "Post of the Year" award.

[hulugu]

Something I really don't understand, though it might at first seem to fly in the face of common sense, is why people want smaller, thinner, less substantial portable computers.

I can understand weight reduction -- nobody likes a heavy notebook.

I can understand conservation of physical mass -- nobody likes a fat notebook.

But even thinnner than they already are? Aren't they easy enough to damage as they presently are? How does making them thinner and lighter improve in this area? I mean, if Apple sold $300 laptops, then yeah, maybe it wouldn't matter too much if you dropped and killed it...However, getting back to the thinness factor, I mean just how thin does a notebook need to be? I own a PowerBook G4; I've owned an iBook G3 and I've used MacBooks sufficiently enough to not see a real benefit to be gained by going thinner. I also would see no benefit in going smaller, but that's a conversation for another time and place.

Well, wouldn't a thinner notebook be a conservation of physical mass? Ideally, you'd want a thin and light laptop that's just wide and deep enough for a decent sized monitor. Really, until you can unfold the monitor like an origami trick, that's going to be the inherent limit in the size of a laptop, so to make it occupy less physical space in a bag you have to make it thinner.

Now, since you can't have everything, making a laptop slightly thicker to make it stronger is a good trade-off, but that's not always necessary. As Anawrahta mentioned you can make a laptop out of different materials to solve the structural problem, carbon fiber, magnesium frames, etc.

Does the iPhone currently exist?

Last I checked OS X "Leopard" and iLife do exist. Oh, and it is 2007 by the way.

I think you missed IJ's point, which is simply:

Apple's sub-notebook is a rumor which may or may not actually exist, therefore claiming it's part of a pattern with Apple is putting the cart before the horse.

[Erasmus]

At least not according to this Digitimes article (http://www.digitimes.com/bits_chips/a20070330PD206.html), which claims that Apple "is going to introduce mass production of its new series of notebooks in the second quarter." ;)

Yes. You see, this really has nothing to do with subnotebooks, and everything to do with a wholly new designed Santa Rosa Macbook Pro! The redesigning was neccessary to accommodate the as yet to be released Radeon Mobility HD2600XT, Turbo Memory, LED backlit screen, bigger HDD, longer lasting battery, and brand new unreleased 2.6GHz Core 2 Duo Extreme mobile processor.

[DHUK]

Sorry Apple, I wouldn't be interested in something like this. I could imagine that a number of people would want one here but it's a product that is for a niché market.

Saying that, I'm not interested in the iPhone either - maybe I'm out of touch with what consumers want?

I'm looking for a refreshed SR MacBook. I'll gladly buy one before Leopard, please just refresh consumer hardware a little more often. ;)

[mrthieme]

All these delays bring me to believe all new apple hardware is being optimized for Leopard.

I have the same impression. Leopard is crucial for us to see new hardware, and I mean new, not a proc speed bump.

[mgauss]

Oh well. I didn't expect a tiny Apple laptop anyway. I just want a MacBook Pro with a better screen. The 15-inch has a bad screen. And the MacBook is PLASTIC. Yuck.

I want an aluminum 13-inch MacBook. Any word on that?

-D


Why do you say the 15 has a bad screen? And is the 17 MBP also a bad one? I'm thinking of a 15 or 17 MBP these days.

[BornAgainMac]

Why do you say the 15 has a bad screen? And is the 17 MBP also a bad one? I'm thinking of a 15 or 17 MBP these days.

I bet they confuse the non-glossy screen as a "bad" screen. For the MBP, you have a choice between the non-glossy and glossy screens and they may only know about the non-glossy screens. Consumers tend to like the glossy screens, Pros tend to like the non glossy screens. I have both and I agree that the glossy screen looks nicer but when actually using it for hours, I prefer the non glossy screen. Both the 15' and 17' inch screens are excellent.

[Hattig]

Whoever wrote this story seems to have a serious misunderstanding about flash memory for caching certain data on a hard drive, and flash memory as a drive.

They seem to be implying that Santa Rosa is a subnotebook chipset. No. It is a full mobile chipset, and Apple will clearly be utilising it in the very near future in their normal notebook range otherwise their technology will fall behind their competitors'.

The subnotebook may be delayed, but that has nothing to do with Santa Rosa's feature set.

[iW00t]

I bet they confuse the non-glossy screen as a "bad" screen. For the MBP, you have a choice between the non-glossy and glossy screens and they may only know about the non-glossy screens. Consumers tend to like the glossy screens, Pros tend to like the non glossy screens. I have both and I agree that the glossy screen looks nicer but when actually using it for hours, I prefer the non glossy screen. Both the 15' and 17' inch screens are excellent.

The 15" suffers from graininess (no it is not the matte finish, the screens have a specular look to them especially apparent if you compare a matte 15" MBP to a matte 17" MBP)

The 17" has uneven backlighting.

Both the 15" and 17" inch screens are shitte. I have seen better screens on Dells and on HPs.

[Bern]

Hhmmm I recall mentioning in another thread not too long ago that if Apple did implement the SR technology it would not be until later in the year and someone telling me point blank I was wrong on both accounts.

What was I thinking???? :rolleyes: :cool:

[mkrishnan]

What was I thinking???? :rolleyes: :cool:

I think Hattig's post applies to yours. The subnotebook may or may not use Santa Rosa, but the adoption of it is appropriate for the larger notebooks as well... No reason to expect it to be delayed there because the subnotebook that supposedly exists has supposedly been delayed.

[iW00t]

Hhmmm I recall mentioning in another thread not too long ago that if Apple did implement the SR technology it would not be until later in the year and someone telling me point blank I was wrong on both accounts.

What was I thinking???? :rolleyes: :cool:

Apple does not necessarily need to implement SR in a subnotebook, so this delay, even if true, means nothing.

The current line of Macbook (Pros) are going to look pathetic once Dell starts shipping their SR based crap. It may be crap, but it is faster crap.

[hotdamn]

Oh well. I didn't expect a tiny Apple laptop anyway. I just want a MacBook Pro with a better screen. The 15-inch has a bad screen. And the MacBook is PLASTIC. Yuck.

I want an aluminum 13-inch MacBook. Any word on that?

-D

The black Macbook has an aluminium casing. It is not plastic.

[PCMacUser]

The black Macbook has an aluminium casing. It is not plastic.

Really? I didn't realise that either. I was playing with one at a store today and it felt really plastic. Ah well! I prefer the MBP's anyway :)

[Bern]

Apple does not necessarily need to implement SR in a subnotebook, so this delay, even if true, means nothing....

I agree, that was the point I was trying to make before. I don't think SR would make much of a difference if implemented in a MBP, it could be worth it to a MB sure.

But see we are also talking about completely different operating systems. Windows, and certainly Vista, needs a bloated fully loaded pc for the "Ultimate" version (or what ever the heck it's called). OS X on the other hand doesn't. I think regardless of the introduction of Intel to Macs we're still talking apples to oranges in some way.

[shawnce]

I agree, that was the point I was trying to make before. I don't think SR would make much of a difference if implemented in a MBP, it could be worth it to a MB sure. SR is a lot more then just better graphics. MBP would benefit from SR (for example it should be able to support 4 GiB, if not more, of RAM).

[DENZIE]

The black Macbook has an aluminium casing. It is not plastic.

according to apple their shell is polycarbonate, hence more resistant to dents than aluminium ;)

[emotion]

The black Macbook has an aluminium casing. It is not plastic.

Mine's plastic. Nice looking plastic, mind, but plastic all the same.

[mkrishnan]

Mine's plastic. Nice looking plastic, mind, but plastic all the same.

Yeah, I was going to respond to this also, but then, I thought to myself, ":rolleyes:™" and decided not to. :o

[IJ Reilly]

Does the iPhone currently exist?

Last I checked OS X "Leopard" and iLife do exist. Oh, and it is 2007 by the way.

All announced products, being the essential difference. This subnotebook is nothing but a rumor. Notice that "delayed" is in quotes in the subject heading.

Yes, I do believe I am aware of the current year. :rolleyes:

[Rocketman]

I think the "new Apple" is focused on component cost. Apple had everything needed for a clovertown 8-way when they were released by Intel in 10-06, but did not release the 8-way until 4-07. That sounds precisely like Intel's price reduction timeframe.

In terms of flash, Apple has major contracts with substantial prepayments with at least three suppliers.

I think the new Apple is timing price reductions on component parts to determine when to release new products so they can:

1. Stay within a pricepoint marketing has determined works.

2. Have a relatively long lifecycle of the product by being at the "center of the" leading edge, rather than at the "bleeding edge" as they have often been in the past.

It also results in the second price drop of the parts happening in mid product cycle, thus juicing margins and profits.

Hence the talk about 500m 4 gigabit flash units rather than 250m 8's or 125m 16's. The price per gigabit is MUCH lower than the others. So we might see a subnotebook or larger iPhone form factor device (ATNN) with perhaps 2-4 flash units installed. Maybe even a micro-drive at 120GB.

Wouldn't a display on both interior faces of the clamshell be cool?

Rocketman

I refer to an old post:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=255429

[neildmitchell]

I wouldnt rush out and get the first gen (maybe even 2nd) of an apple subnotebook due to the limitation of writes to the memory and quality of the memory.

In a gadget such as iPhone or iPod, I can understand the use of NAND Flash. In an actual laptop I can see the benefits, but not sure I would want to risk it. As a complete hard drive replacement...No Primarily used as a read only cache , then maybe.

My desision would of course come down to HOW the memory was being used IN and BY the system.

(to quote Wikipedia)

"Another limitation is that flash memory has a finite number of erase-write cycles (most commercially available flash products are guaranteed to withstand 1 million programming cycles). This effect is partially offset by some chip firmware or file system drivers by counting the writes and dynamically remapping the blocks in order to spread the write operations between the sectors. This technique is called wear levelling. Another mechanism is to perform write verification and remapping to spare sectors in case of write failure, which is named bad block management (BBM)."

1 million seems like a lot, but it isnt.

"The error-correcting and detecting checksum will typically correct an error where one bit per 256 bytes is incorrect. When this happens, the block is marked bad in a logical block allocation table, and its undamaged contents are copied to a new block and the logical block allocation table is altered accordingly. If more than one bit in the memory is corrupted, the contents are partly lost, i.e. it is no longer possible to reconstruct the original contents.
Most NAND devices are shipped from the factory with some bad blocks which are typically identified and marked according to a specified bad block marking strategy. By allowing some bad blocks, the manfacturers achieve far higher yields than would be possible if all blocks were tested good. This significantly reduces NAND flash costs and increases the size of the parts.
The first error-free physical block (block 0) is always guaranteed to be readable and free from errors. Hence, all vital pointers for partitioning and bad block management for the device must be located inside this block (typically a pointer to the bad block tables etc). If the device is used for booting a system, this block may contain the master boot record."


Id wait to see reports on the Flakiness factor, before any purchase of a laptop.
like I said before, My desision would of course come down to HOW the memory was being used IN and BY the system.

[Eraserhead]

I've got a 9" subnotebook from Fujitsu and the only complaint I have about its form factor is the screen resolution. If Apple's working on resolution independence in Leopard, we can expect to see pixels being jammed tighter together next year.

This is true, also waiting for 10.5 means they can leave out the optical drive, by the time 10.6 is released you'll be able to download it from Apple direct, they let you get Xcode now which is 920MB so the whole OS should be possible in a couple of years.

[johnee]

I wouldnt rush out and get the first gen (maybe even 2nd) of an apple subnotebook due to the limitation of writes to the memory.

I'm going to get an SR mbp when they come out, but SR incorporates some flash ram, which makes me a little hesitant. But I'm going to make an assumption that intel wouldn't release a product with known major issues.

[NintendoFan]

"The error-correcting and detecting checksum will typically correct an error where one bit per 256 bytes is incorrect. When this happens, the block is marked bad in a logical block allocation table, and its undamaged contents are copied to a new block and the logical block allocation table is altered accordingly. If more than one bit in the memory is corrupted, the contents are partly lost, i.e. it is no longer possible to reconstruct the original contents.
Most NAND devices are shipped from the factory with some bad blocks which are typically identified and marked according to a specified bad block marking strategy. By allowing some bad blocks, the manfacturers achieve far higher yields than would be possible if all blocks were tested good. This significantly reduces NAND flash costs and increases the size of the parts.
The first error-free physical block (block 0) is always guaranteed to be readable and free from errors. Hence, all vital pointers for partitioning and bad block management for the device must be located inside this block (typically a pointer to the bad block tables etc). If the device is used for booting a system, this block may contain the master boot record."

That is no different from hard drives today, that normally ship with bad sectors.

[scrambledwonder]

I bet they confuse the non-glossy screen as a "bad" screen. For the MBP, you have a choice between the non-glossy and glossy screens and they may only know about the non-glossy screens. Consumers tend to like the glossy screens, Pros tend to like the non glossy screens. I have both and I agree that the glossy screen looks nicer but when actually using it for hours, I prefer the non glossy screen. Both the 15' and 17' inch screens are excellent.

Well, let me clarify. I can see a definite "grain" on both the glossy and matte finish MBP screens. Most people don't notice it, but it really bothers me, to the point where my eyes become extremely fatigued and I get a headache. I've compared the screen to a 12-inch PowerBook screen, a 15-inch Ti PowerBook screen, a MacBook screen and my finacee's 17-inch MBP screen. All of these screens are much more clear, without the grain.

I'm not the only one who notices:

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=251352

It could be my eyes. They could be extra sensitive to this grain as a result of my glasses/prescription or some other factor. But for me, the grain is really apparent (on both finishes) and it causes focusing problems that make the computer difficult to use, for me anyway. Oh, and I have had my eyes checked recently. ;)

I prefer the MacBook screen, but the plastic wouldn't age well with me because I work on my laptop for about 12 hours a day.

[mlarkin]

A rumor about a product with a rumored rollout date and a rumor that the rumored product won't meet the rumored rollout date and now its a 'fact' that the product is late.

MacRumors, you are clueless idiots. Cut the goddamn crap. Who the **** ever said the product was promised at any point in history.

And worse, the board is full of asswipes crying like babies that 'Apple is late again'.

Grow the **** up.

[scrambledwonder]

A rumor about a product with a rumored rollout date and a rumor that the rumored product won't meet the rumored rollout date and now its a 'fact' that the product is late.

MacRumors, you are clueless idiots. Cut the goddamn crap. Who the **** ever said the product was promised at any point in history.

And worse, the board is full of asswipes crying like babies that 'Apple is late again'.

Grow the **** up.

Much truth in these words. . . but man, total anger issues. :confused:

[gnasher729]

1 million seems like a lot, but it isnt.

Actually, it is. If you write at 10 MB/sec continuously, no interruption, forever, how long does it take to write each one of 4 GB one million times?

Answer: About thirteen years.

[AidenShaw]

Actually, it is. If you write at 10 MB/sec continuously, no interruption, forever, how long does it take to write each one of 4 GB one million times?

Answer: About thirteen years.

Your statement assumes that you revisit the same block every 4 GB - but in reality filesystems tend to have "hot spots" in the meta-data files.

Every time you create a file, you need to write to the space allocation bitmap and to the file header (and probably a file header allocation bitmap) and to the directory.

These hot spots are the problem, not the file data.

[JonHimself]

Yes I can't wait for this product.. especially so that when/if it does come out people can complain that it isn't tailored to their specific needs and is underpowered to edit video/record 100 live audio tracks/render 3d graphics/convert to h.264 at blazing speeds/all while recording HD TV

[brianus]

Your statement assumes that you revisit the same block every 4 GB - but in reality filesystems tend to have "hot spots" in the meta-data files.

Every time you create a file, you need to write to the space allocation bitmap and to the file header (and probably a file header allocation bitmap) and to the directory.

These hot spots are the problem, not the file data.

One of the reasons why flash is ok for things like music players and maybe extra storage but not so much if you intend to use it for your boot volume. OS's are constantly writing and rewriting and appending to certain crucial internal files. It probably wouldn't take long to start getting directory corruption.

True, but it still sucks reading how full-size video iPods are delayed, SR notebooks keep falling further and further back into '07, Leopard not till the fall, Apple TV shipping late, etc even if they are just rumors. Perhaps Q3/4 will be the half year of the Mac.

Full-size video iPods are not "delayed". Since iPhone was announced, every thinking person has assumed the iPod refresh would not be until the fall. Previous rumors about a full screen iPod were actually about the iPhone. That said, it is true that virtually every product announced or widely expected for the last 8 months or so has been late: Mac Pro and XServe (could have come a month earlier in the former case and several in the latter); MacBook Pro C2D refresh (nearly 2 months late); Apple TV (a month late); 8-core Mac Pro (nearly 6 months past the first possible rumored release date); Leopard (originally January 2007, then "spring" 2007, then widely expected to be pushed to the very end of spring, now October). Even the iPhone itself may not be out until the very end of June at this point.

About the subnotebook rumor.. I could have sworn this was rumored for early 2008 to begin with. I can't ever remember reading 2007. Can't say I'm disappointed.

[mutantteenager]

This is what I'm waiting for, a pro, small, real replacement for a 12" Powerbook. Not in any hurry, but why another year?!

To all those fanboys getting excited about black laptops, well, they've been around for a long time! When Apple release the new iMac in beige, I can't wait to read those posts...

[localoid]

...About the subnotebook rumor.. I could have sworn this was rumored for early 2008 to begin with. I can't ever remember reading 2007. Can't say I'm disappointed.

The Mac ultra-small notebook rumor (http://www.engadget.com/2007/02/16/rumor-rehash-apple-macbook-ultraportable-coming-soon/) has been reported, and then re-reported and reinvented (as needed), many times within what -- the last year or so?

[MrFusion]

Apple bought over designers FROM Sony to design their current crop of notebooks. The very first Powerbook was DESIGNED and built BY Sony. To say that Sony's electronics division is not a true innovator is simply ignorant. Heard of the CD?

Yes, I have heard from the CD. It was invented by Philips.
If you would have said the walkman...

[localoid]

Yes, I have heard from the CD. It was invented by Philips.


You heard wrong (http://www.research.philips.com/newscenter/dossier/optrec/index.html)...

In 1979 Philips and Sony set up a joint task force of engineers to design the new digital audio disc. Prominent members of the task force were Joop Sinjou, Kees Immink and Toshi tada Doi. After a year of experimentation and discussion, the taskforce produced the "Red Book", the Compact Disc standard. Philips contributed the general manufacturing process, based on video LaserDisc technology. Philips also contributed the Eight-to-Fourteen Modulation, EFM, which offers both a long playing time and a high resilience against disc handling damage such as scratches and fingerprints, while Sony contributed the error-correction method, CIRC. The Compact Disc Story, told by a former member of the taskforce, gives background information on the many technical decisions made, including the choice of the sampling frequency, playing time, and disc diameter. According to Philips, the Compact Disc was thus "invented collectively by a large group of people working as a team."

Source (http://www.answers.com/topic/compact-disc-2)

[Val-kyrie]

All these delays bring me to believe all new apple hardware is being optimized for Leopard.

This also makes me believe that Apple will upgrade the laptop line without the Intel Turbo Memory (i.e. previously called Robson Cache) included in this update. These delays just strengthen the arguments of those who are waiting for Leopard to buy new hardware. For me, it is a practical choice. I figure I can buy new hardware with Leopard with iLife (Leopard) included and with Apple Care I won't have to worry about upgrading until Apple Care is expired. By then, Intel will have a whole new chip architecture with integrated memory controller, possibly also integrated graphics chip, and Apple will be releasing/have recently released a new OS by then. For me, this is the optimal upgrade cycle.

[Erasmus]

A rumor about a product with a rumored rollout date and a rumor that the rumored product won't meet the rumored rollout date and now its a 'fact' that the product is late.

MacRumors, you are clueless idiots. Cut the goddamn crap. Who the **** ever said the product was promised at any point in history.

And worse, the board is full of asswipes crying like babies that 'Apple is late again'.

Grow the **** up.

Oh my GOD, man. You're right! We really are just asswipe babies crying and complaining!!! Do you think we should be more like you, randomly insulting people? That's cool. You're my new hero, man.

So, did you enjoy the sarcasm???

Welcome back to MacRumours. If all you have to say is trollish attacks on members of this forum, perhaps you should leave? I'm sure your two posts won't be missed.

Oh well, at least you used proper spelling and punctuation to do your trolling, which most trolls don't bother with.

[I WAS the one]

ok ok , please tell me... what does Steve Jobs will be showing in June? just the iPhone release? c'mon! at first the Leopard was cancelled, then the thin Mac book release was cancelled, even the quad iMac "rumored" was cancelled.. what will Steve will show us in June deside the iPhone? anyone?

[MacinDoc]

ok ok , please tell me... what does Steve Jobs will be showing in June? just the iPhone release? c'mon! at first the Leopard was cancelled, then the thin Mac book release was cancelled, even the quad iMac "rumored" was cancelled.. what will Steve will show us in June deside the iPhone? anyone?
No announced product has been cancelled. This is a rumor site, and a large of threads here are based on mere speculation. Leopard's release date has been postponed, but none of the other products ppl are complaining about (iLife, iWork, ultraportable, etc) have even been officially announced by Apple, as far as I know.

[Erasmus]

ok ok , please tell me... what does Steve Jobs will be showing in June? just the iPhone release? c'mon! at first the Leopard was cancelled, then the thin Mac book release was cancelled, even the quad iMac "rumored" was cancelled.. what will Steve will show us in June deside the iPhone? anyone?

Leopard secret features, the new Santa Rosa Macbook Pro, iMac and Stoakley-Seaburg Mac Pro.

Plus iLife'08, and a few minutes on the release of the iPhone, and how well AppleTV, iPod and ITMS are going.

[Rocketman]

ok ok , please tell me... what does Steve Jobs will be showing in June? just the iPhone release? c'mon! at first the Leopard was cancelled, then the thin Mac book release was cancelled, even the quad iMac "rumored" was cancelled.. what will Steve will show us in June deside the iPhone? anyone?

I have an "old" prediction in reply to that. So far so good BTW.

Warning, long . . .

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3389965&highlight=rocketman#post3389965

Next Generation Intel Platform (Santa Rosa) Tracking For May

Page 4 Post #86

Timing

I seem to have my ear to above average ground and many of my "predictions" have been pretty close.

So here we go . . . . .

iTV 3-07
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/26/apple-tv-delayed-until-march/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/10/apple-tv-shipments-pushed-to-march/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/05/itunes-7-1-apple-tv-support-and-quicktime-7-1-5/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/12/apple-tv-orders-being-charged/
== CONFIRMED 2 of 12

iPhone 6-07
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/28/apple-coo-on-iphone/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/21/xscale-arm-cpu-in-iphone/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/14/iphones-os-x-less-than-500mb-flash-vs-hard-drive-iwork-integration/
iMac Santa Rosa 6-07
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/25/next-generation-intel-platform-santa-rosa-tracking-for-may/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/23/santa-rosa-shipping-next-month-may/
Mac-Mini C2D 6-07
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/07/ipod-nano-mini-announcements-this-month/
MacBook Pro Santa Rosa late 7-07
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/17/intels-penryn-chip-boosts-speeds/
MacBook Santa Rosa 9-07
iMac C2Q late 7-07 dieshrink version
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/12/power-efficient-quad-core-xeons/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/30/apple-quad-core-processors-in-new-macs/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/17/intels-penryn-chip-boosts-speeds/

MacPro Octo announced at NAB, shipping 7-07
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/20/hd-mac-pros-at-nab/
http://news.yahoo.com/s/macworld/20070301/tc_macworld/nabevent20070301_0
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/20/apple-nab-media-event-invites/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/04/apple-releases-8-core-mac-pro/
== CONFIRMED 3 of 12

MPO bundles:
Adobe CS3
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/21/adobe-photoshop-creative-suite-3-on-march-27th/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/05/adobe-to-ship-cs3-march-27th/
== CONFIRMED 1 of 12

FC Extreme (studio)
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/02/final-cut-pro-6-final-cut-extreme-details-displays-again/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/20/apple-nab-media-event-invites/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/13/apple-nab-special-event-this-weekend/
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=296277&page=4
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/15/nab-apple-updates-final-cut-studio/
== CONFIRMED 7 of 12

Logic Extreme / Audoi apps
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/28/revamped-logic-on-the-way/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/17/logic-8-thursday/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/20/apple-nab-media-event-invites/
Leopard 10.5.0 May 1 and 10.5.1 delivered at WWDC-07 in time to be installed on most "new" Macs.
http://www.amazon.com/Mac-OS-Version-10-5-Leopard/dp/B000FK88JK
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/22/mac-os-x-10-5-leopard-still-waiting/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/12/apple-delays-leopard-release/
== CONFIRMED FAILED 4 of 12 (first failure)

There. Anything "sooner" is a win. Anything missing entirely or more than 2 months later is a loss.
I am shooting for a 70% record. Buy Apple stock.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15837290/?q=AAPL


ATV
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/Ou/?p=406
http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2951&p=1


==
4-1-07

A better question is since there IS a press event with Steve Jobs present,
what might he announce as "one more thing"?

Primary:
EMI content on iTunes
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/02/emi-apple-press-conference-coverage/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/02/behind-the-apple-emi-deal/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/02/emi-apple-press-conference-coverage/
== CONFIRMED 5 of 12

Likely:
Watermarked vs DRM format
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/02/emi-apple-press-conference-coverage/
== CONFIRMED 6 of 12


Apple loseless format
HD 720i music videos

Less Likely:
iMac Quad with some music related software (Logic Extreme, Garage band 4 or something)
Apple BUYS EMI (they already own the Apple trademark free and clear)
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/17/intels-penryn-chip-boosts-speeds/

[JPark]

That's 4-5x as many iPods as have ever been sold (including hard drive units). If there's any truth to that rumor, Apple must be working on something big--either the subnotebook or a flash based 6th Gen. iPod with Video.

[mkrishnan]

That's 4-5x as many iPods as have ever been sold (including hard drive units). If there's any truth to that rumor, Apple must be working on something big--either the subnotebook or a flash based 6th Gen. iPod with Video.

Note a 4GB product would have eight of these equivalents, and a 8GB one would have 16. Giga*BIT*. ;)

[DTphonehome]

All these delays bring me to believe all new apple hardware is being optimized for Leopard.

Yeah, I agree. Maybe super hi-rez screens for the resolution independent OS, and hybrid HDs.

I would like an Apple subnote, but frankly, my MacBook's screen feels way too small for me, and I thought I would sell it for a 15" MBP when Leopard is out. This complicates things...if the subnote is amazing, I might want that (given a high enough screen rez).

[JPark]

Note a 4GB product would have eight of these equivalents, and a 8GB one would have 16. Giga*BIT*. ;)

Interesting. I read that and assumed the "Gb" was a typo. Is this how flash is sold for the existing line of iPods? Does a 4GB nano have 8 of these things in it?

[Erasmus]

Interesting. I read that and assumed the "Gb" was a typo. Is this how flash is sold for the existing line of iPods? Does a 4GB nano have 8 of these things in it?

Yes. For example, Ram and Hard Disks are marketed as Gigabytes (GB), while broadband internet and Ethernet are marketed as Gigabits (Gb). Gigabit is better used for low level physical amounts for hardware developers, because that's how many little switches it has, or how many zeros and ones are transferred per second, but gigabyte is better conceptually for computer storage comparison by consumers, because information is saved in bytes.

Well, at least that's what I think.

[scrambledwonder]

I have an "old" prediction in reply to that. So far so good BTW.

Warning, long . . .

http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?p=3389965&highlight=rocketman#post3389965

Next Generation Intel Platform (Santa Rosa) Tracking For May

Page 4 Post #86

Timing

I seem to have my ear to above average ground and many of my "predictions" have been pretty close.

So here we go . . . . .

iTV 3-07
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/26/apple-tv-delayed-until-march/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/10/apple-tv-shipments-pushed-to-march/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/05/itunes-7-1-apple-tv-support-and-quicktime-7-1-5/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/12/apple-tv-orders-being-charged/
== CONFIRMED 2 of 12

iPhone 6-07
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/28/apple-coo-on-iphone/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/21/xscale-arm-cpu-in-iphone/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/14/iphones-os-x-less-than-500mb-flash-vs-hard-drive-iwork-integration/
iMac Santa Rosa 6-07
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/25/next-generation-intel-platform-santa-rosa-tracking-for-may/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/23/santa-rosa-shipping-next-month-may/
Mac-Mini C2D 6-07
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/07/ipod-nano-mini-announcements-this-month/
MacBook Pro Santa Rosa late 7-07
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/17/intels-penryn-chip-boosts-speeds/
MacBook Santa Rosa 9-07
iMac C2Q late 7-07 dieshrink version
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/12/power-efficient-quad-core-xeons/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/30/apple-quad-core-processors-in-new-macs/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/17/intels-penryn-chip-boosts-speeds/

MacPro Octo announced at NAB, shipping 7-07
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/20/hd-mac-pros-at-nab/
http://news.yahoo.com/s/macworld/20070301/tc_macworld/nabevent20070301_0
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/20/apple-nab-media-event-invites/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/04/apple-releases-8-core-mac-pro/
== CONFIRMED 3 of 12

MPO bundles:
Adobe CS3
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/21/adobe-photoshop-creative-suite-3-on-march-27th/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/05/adobe-to-ship-cs3-march-27th/
== CONFIRMED 1 of 12

FC Extreme (studio)
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/02/final-cut-pro-6-final-cut-extreme-details-displays-again/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/20/apple-nab-media-event-invites/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/13/apple-nab-special-event-this-weekend/
http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?t=296277&page=4
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/15/nab-apple-updates-final-cut-studio/
== CONFIRMED 7 of 12

Logic Extreme / Audoi apps
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/28/revamped-logic-on-the-way/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/01/17/logic-8-thursday/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/20/apple-nab-media-event-invites/
Leopard 10.5.0 May 1 and 10.5.1 delivered at WWDC-07 in time to be installed on most "new" Macs.
http://www.amazon.com/Mac-OS-Version-10-5-Leopard/dp/B000FK88JK
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/22/mac-os-x-10-5-leopard-still-waiting/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/12/apple-delays-leopard-release/
== CONFIRMED FAILED 4 of 12 (first failure)

There. Anything "sooner" is a win. Anything missing entirely or more than 2 months later is a loss.
I am shooting for a 70% record. Buy Apple stock.
http://www.cnbc.com/id/15837290/?q=AAPL


ATV
http://blogs.techrepublic.com.com/Ou/?p=406
http://www.anandtech.com/mac/showdoc.aspx?i=2951&p=1


==
4-1-07

A better question is since there IS a press event with Steve Jobs present,
what might he announce as "one more thing"?

Primary:
EMI content on iTunes
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/02/emi-apple-press-conference-coverage/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/02/behind-the-apple-emi-deal/
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/02/emi-apple-press-conference-coverage/
== CONFIRMED 5 of 12

Likely:
Watermarked vs DRM format
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/02/emi-apple-press-conference-coverage/
== CONFIRMED 6 of 12


Apple loseless format
HD 720i music videos

Less Likely:
iMac Quad with some music related software (Logic Extreme, Garage band 4 or something)
Apple BUYS EMI (they already own the Apple trademark free and clear)
http://www.macrumors.com/2007/04/17/intels-penryn-chip-boosts-speeds/

So no MacBook Pro revision in June, huh? None at all? Not until July? That's your prediction?

Makes sense, though, considering that everything else in the line is getting long in the tooth, especially the iMac.

Ugh.

-D

[mkrishnan]

Interesting. I read that and assumed the "Gb" was a typo. Is this how flash is sold for the existing line of iPods? Does a 4GB nano have 8 of these things in it?

When they say equivalent, I think they use 4Gb equivalents as a metric for measuring the volume -- I'm not sure that it's necessarily 16 separate 4Gb chips -- it might be a mix of some kind of that and larger modules (I think larger capacity ones exist).

But yes, memory chips are always in bits. Note how memory modules for computers almost invariably have four or eight RAM chips on the card.

[Erasmus]

When they say equivalent, I think they use 4Gb equivalents as a metric for measuring the volume -- I'm not sure that it's necessarily 16 separate 4Gb chips -- it might be a mix of some kind of that and larger modules (I think larger capacity ones exist).

But yes, memory chips are always in bits. Note how memory modules for computers almost invariably have four or eight RAM chips on the card.

Yep, and so any RAM chips with four 4Gb chips on them are 4GN RAM modules : ) (GigaNybble for those not in the know (hope it's spelt right) 1 Nybble = 4 bits!)

[Cult Follower]

I think if this product ever does make it out, it will be something amazing. I already want one.:p So here;s to hoping its earlier than later.

[Rocketman]

So no MacBook Pro revision in June, huh? None at all? Not until July? That's your prediction?

Makes sense, though, considering that everything else in the line is getting long in the tooth, especially the iMac.

Ugh.

-D

You didn't have to repost the whole quote :)

I say traditionally they do the 15" MacBookPro first, work out any kinks and then release the 17". A month or TWO later the MacBook. Fully debugged and ramped-up to handle the onslaught of demand.

It seems the onslaught is getting worse every quarter. :)

BTW doesn't the plastic case have better wireless reception than the Al one?

Rocketman

My TiG4-400 Rev A has a RESET BUTTON on back (and an IR port with no remote).

[Ludde]

I'm thinking sub-notebooks will replace macbooks.

3 lines of laptops might be too much. The price point would have to be $1000

I find your statement most unlikely :rolleyes:

[Episteme]

Your statement assumes that you revisit the same block every 4 GB - but in reality filesystems tend to have "hot spots" in the meta-data files.

Every time you create a file, you need to write to the space allocation bitmap and to the file header (and probably a file header allocation bitmap) and to the directory.

These hot spots are the problem, not the file data.

Modern flash controllers -- which are part of the flash itself -- have wear-levelling algorithms which spread writes around. So, when you "rewrite" stuff, it'll write it to a physically different block. Because it's flash, "fragmentation" doesn't matter. A change in write strategies, essentially.

Then there's OS-level threads that handle file system maintenance usually, to keep stuff from being "too static", stuff like that. Usually done when the system is in use but otherwise idle, probably restricted to when AC powered in the case of a notebook.

There's a bunch of whitepapers around on this stuff. I recall reading one from MS based on stuff they did for WM5, which changed their design focus from battery-backed RAM to flash.

So, this is a problem that's already been solved for the PDA and PDA/Phone convergence markets. Granted, the devices have a limited expected lifespan of something like 4-5 years, but that's all the majority of the subnotebook market likely expect anyway...

I was contemplating that solid state HDs for the data and a Robson-esque separate cache where the majority of the OS lived might also work well.

Just so long as the flash parts are user-replacable, I think it'd work out okay.

[Episteme]

Yes. For example, Ram and Hard Disks are marketed as Gigabytes (GB), while broadband internet and Ethernet are marketed as Gigabits (Gb). Gigabit is better used for low level physical amounts for hardware developers, because that's how many little switches it has, or how many zeros and ones are transferred per second, but gigabyte is better conceptually for computer storage comparison by consumers, because information is saved in bytes.

Well, at least that's what I think.

Yup, that's pretty much it.

Traditionally, network equipment was rated in bits because it was serial and thus sent one bit at a time -- so that measurement makes the most sense.

RAM is described as such because, depending on chip and system design, a full byte may not be stored on a single chip, but rather split up across multiple chips. These days, a full 32bit longword is usually stored across 4 chips but designs vary.

Once we get outside of hardware design, we're not really interested in bits, 'cause addressing works in terms of bytes. So that becomes a more useful measurement.

Of course, Nintendo and Sega also used to use the Megabit rating for their carts, way back -- but that was because it made 'em sound a lot bigger ;)

[shigzeo]

The whole idea of subcompacts is that they're made out of strong composite materials, like Panasonic's tough books, or Sony's carbon VAIOs. That said, who drops their laptop? I've never dropped any of mine, and if you're clumsy enough to drop it hard enough that it breaks, then you should pay the price.



Apple bought over designers FROM Sony to design their current crop of notebooks. The very first Powerbook was DESIGNED and built BY Sony. To say that Sony's electronics division is not a true innovator is simply ignorant. Heard of the CD?

The subcompact VAIOs are not entertainment experience computers, they are meant for people working on the go, and the Japanese market that prefers more compact devices. Apple is shrinking in the world's second largest market. They need this computer over here.

personally, i cannot even think of carrying a laptop as they are heavy and/or bulky. apple laptops look good and i think are the best but only on a desk - you cannot effectively use them on the go.

on the go does not mean american - in the car, on your desk, to a meeting. try carrying one all day on the train, then walking home from the train (2k or so) and trying to make sure it does not snap during rush or something.

apple is dying out in japan yes... this needs to be fixed. you cannot design hamburgers for people who do not eat them, you need to innovate

[MrFusion]

You heard wrong (http://www.research.philips.com/newscenter/dossier/optrec/index.html)...

Not entirely. Both were involved. So we are both right (you: sony, me:philips) and wrong (me: not knowing about sony, you: not giving credit to philips).

[Wild-Bill]

MacRumors, you are clueless idiots. Cut the goddamn crap. Who the **** ever said the product was promised at any point in history.

And worse, the board is full of asswipes crying like babies that 'Apple is late again'.

Grow the **** up.

I see a vacation from the forums in your future. If you don't want to hear people whining about product rumors, DONT COME TO A MAC-RUMORS website. You are the only clueless idiot I see.

mlarkin - macrumors nOOb. Joined in 2004, and has a whopping TWO posts.

[avus]

apple is dying out in japan yes... this needs to be fixed. you cannot design hamburgers for people who do not eat them, you need to innovate

dying out in japan...? DYING? Shrinking, yes, but you must keep in mind that the entire PC shipments were DOWN in 1Q/07 compared to 1Q/06 there, so IMHO Apple did as well as it could, despite some strong comments by Peter Oppenheimer in the conference call last week.

I think Apple is still relevant there, iPod being very popular. However, I doubt that any Mac, even a sub-notebook a la PowerBook 2400, would have much impact because the main focus in Japanese IT field had shifted from PC and MP3 player to cell phone and game console - only the localized iPhone would do it there.

[Shagrat]

Wow, slow news day...

Personally i think this is coming across as just about the most useless thread ever at MR...even I have absolutely nothing of interest to man nor beast, to add to this already stultifying thread!

I want to vote 0, not +ve or -Ve, BTW...:)

[Counter]

BREAKING NEWS JUST IN: Apples Subnotebook delayed because developers had to be pulled from the project to work on iQuiz, the all new quiz game for the popular iPod music player.

[MonkeyClaw]

God I love this place, its the only place I can go to read a bunch of children complaining about a non existant product being delayed. I thought Mac users were smarter, guess not...

[kiang]

Common Apple theme these days : delays.

They haven't announced any sub-nootbook yet, so you can't call this a delay, this is speculating about speculation :p

[Chupa Chupa]

They haven't announced any sub-nootbook yet, so you can't call this a delay, this is speculating about speculation :p

Exactly! I wonder about some people's logic skills around here.

[mkrishnan]

Exactly! I wonder about some people's logic skills around here.

I'm just happy to see the rumours stay alive! :o Far from being disappointed by delays, I was beginning to become conditioned to the idea that there may not be a smaller notebook anytime soon. :( I've even learned to really optimize and enjoy my iBook again.

[twoodcc]

looking forward to seeing this new laptop.....the sooner the better

[sugarmagnolia]

I really need a new macbook pro... it does not seem like yesterday's entry has anything to do with this model. I am wondering if there will be any significant changes in the macbook in the near future...

I have one month to take advantage of an educational discount so I am a little anxious to know...

Thanks

[strange days]

At the recent IDF Intel announced a new generation of processors and chipsets specifically designed to feed the UMPC niche; while it's true that no 'oficial' rumor has been leaked, here's my forecast for 1h2008 :

An upgraded Iphone with a keyboard ( or a miniature macbook if you prefer ). No optical drive.

http://www.brighthand.com/default.asp?newsID=12969

Bring on the Macpod !=)

[I WAS the one]

so, as I thought... There's no new stuff on the WWDC 07. I don't know but I think Apple gotta come with this new stuff (non-computer non handheld) that will make strong the new APPLE INC name... something out of the basics...

well... I hope Apple Inc. stays a float.

[peharri]

How can something that's not been announced be "delayed"?

The headline makes no sense.

Leopard was actually delayed. It was announced for release in the Spring, but now it's going to be Autumn.

This device... Apple hasn't confirmed it exists, let alone given a release date. This product has not been "delayed" by any reasonable definition of the word.

[emotion]

How can something that's not been announced be "delayed"?

The headline makes no sense.

Leopard was actually delayed. It was announced for release in the Spring, but now it's going to be Autumn.

This device... Apple hasn't confirmed it exists, let alone given a release date. This product has not been "delayed" by any reasonable definition of the word.

What they're saying is: We had some inside info for a product and now that info has been updated to say it's internally delayed and the release date will probably shift too.

Not that hard to get a grip on really.

Whether you think there's any substance to the original rumour/inside info is another thing entirely.

[dernhelm]

What they're saying is: We had some inside info for a product and now that info has been updated to say it's internally delayed and the release date will probably shift too.

Not that hard to get a grip on really.

Whether you think there's any substance to the original rumour/inside info is another thing entirely.

Except that the common passerby could read it out of context and think:

"Another Apple product that's delayed. So how is this company any better than Microsoft? First OS/X 10.5, now this, they don't have their act together out in Cupertino"... blah blah blah.

And while this is posted on MacRumors (so if you considered the source, you would likely deduce this meant a delay of a rumored product, rather than a delay of an actual product) this is the internet, and headlines from "front page" stories have a way of circulating around the internet out of context.

That's the concern I think he was addressing.

[Poopface Morty]

So where it says Don't Buy -- Updates Soon, can that pretty much be changed back to Buy Only if you Need It? I need to get a MBP, and was expecting something out during June. Guess not anymore. :mad:

[scrambledwonder]

So where it says Don't Buy -- Updates Soon, can that pretty much be changed back to Buy Only if you Need It? I need to get a MBP, and was expecting something out during June. Guess not anymore. :mad:

If you need it now, go ahead and get it. It's a rockin machine—super fast and gorgeous. It will still be totally rockin in two years' time. . . unless they release the Cyberdine chip, then we're all screwed.

[scrambledwonder]

I really need a new macbook pro... it does not seem like yesterday's entry has anything to do with this model. I am wondering if there will be any significant changes in the macbook in the near future...

I have one month to take advantage of an educational discount so I am a little anxious to know...

Thanks

Again, go ahead and get it. It'll make you happy. It'll let you get your work done. It will have enough power for you to do pretty much anything for the foreseeable future.

I used to be a "waiter." But then my friend came over to my house with her new MacBook. So NICE. So FAST. I'm getting one, regardless of whether they come out with something new tomorrow.

Anyway, worst-case scenario: You get the MBP, the next they they release something that's super super awesome that you really really NEED, you put your machine on eBay, sell it at a loss of a few hundred bucks and get the new one. A few hundred bucks isn't all that much in the scheme of things, especially for someone who can afford a MBP. . . And the Tiger Migration Assistant makes it SUPER easy to transfer your stuff to a new machine.

[Wie Gehts]

Bring back Gil Bring back Gil Bring back Gil Bring back Gil !!!

[TheAnswer]

Bring back Gil Bring back Gil Bring back Gil Bring back Gil !!!

He's back!

[Clive At Five]

They haven't announced any sub-nootbook yet, so you can't call this a delay, this is speculating about speculation :p

How can something that's not been announced be "delayed"?

The headline makes no sense.

Apple Insider is notoriously over-dramatic about this sort of stuff. Plus they've been riding the "Sub-Notebook" wave pretty hard since Shaw Wu sh@t out his 'insider report' about it several months ago. Knowing AI, they will ride the wave hard until the product is released, be it months or years.

:rolleyes: idiots. :rolleyes:

I'm assuming the "delayed" was in quote to make fun of AI, not in seriousness.

-Clive

[ac-mac]

why didnt they take people from the macbook(pro) team and put them on the iphone, so we could have leopard on time. Im sure many here would prefer leopard to an expensive flash based macbook

[Earendil]

why didnt they take people from the macbook(pro) team and put them on the iphone, so we could have leopard on time. Im sure many here would prefer leopard to an expensive flash based macbook

Because software is harder to debug.
The iPhone is running a slimmed down version of OSX.
Which team knows more about slimming down OSX, the Laptop Hardware team or the OSX Team?
But that's a good question ac-mac, and one that may not be obvious to those that don't work in hardware/software.

On a side note: Contrary to some peoples portrayals, Apple actually has smart people running it, and if they are doing something that seems blatantly stupid, it is more often than not because you/we don't have all the facts. Let's all remember this :)


edit:
I just realized this is the subnotebook delayed forum, and not the OSX delayed forum. wtf people?
I don't care if they haven't got the kinks worked out on mars yet, can we just send all the people complaining about OSX there and have them figure it out?

[Clive At Five]

why didnt they take people from the macbook(pro) team and put them on the iphone, so we could have leopard on time. Im sure many here would prefer leopard to an expensive flash based macbook

Because software is harder to debug.

[...]

edit:
I just realized this is the subnotebook delayed forum, and not the OSX delayed forum. wtf people?

I think ac-mac was joking. Obviously the MacBook Pro team would require hardware and design engineers while Leopard and the iPhone OS requires software engineers.

-Clive

[Erasmus]

Umm, this is a thread about the SUBNOTEBOOK being delayed. The product we don't know exists.

We DO know that the Macbook Pro exists, and that a new chipset will be available for it really soon.

Therefore, this rumour has NOTHING to do with delayed Macbook Pros, and therefore anyone who was going to wait until WWDC in June to buy their MBP should continue to do so. A rumoured delay on a rumoured product that really has no connection with any of Apple's present lineup is not going to affect when real things, like the Macbook or Macbook Pro, will be released.

Geez...

[MonkeyClaw]

Umm, this is a thread about the SUBNOTEBOOK being delayed. The product we don't know exists.

We DO know that the Macbook Pro exists, and that a new chipset will be available for it really soon.

Therefore, this rumour has NOTHING to do with delayed Macbook Pros, and therefore anyone who was going to wait until WWDC in June to buy their MBP should continue to do so. A rumoured delay on a rumoured product that really has no connection with any of Apple's present lineup is not going to affect when real things, like the Macbook or Macbook Pro, will be released.

Geez...

Don't worry, logic seems to lie just out of reach for the majority in this thread...

[drwrbrts]

What do you feel are the chances of a 12/13" MBP coming out in June or October with Leopard? With the >$2000 prices for subnotebooks on the market, I think I'd much rather pay around 1500-1700 for a smaller MBP. Maybe I'm just jealous of my girlfriend's 12 inch PB, but I'd rather see the MBP get smaller than a whole new line of ultraportables.

[princealfie]

I still dig my 12" PB for the short route... however the HD is dead now :(

[scrambledwonder]

I still dig my 12" PB for the short route... however the HD is dead now :(

No worries man. That just means it's time to get a nice set of torx drivers and some instructions from http://www.ifixit.com

it's totally fun and don't worry, you won't mess it up. They just tell you that so you take it to a "professional"

[John Jacob]

Your statement assumes that you revisit the same block every 4 GB - but in reality filesystems tend to have "hot spots" in the meta-data files.

Every time you create a file, you need to write to the space allocation bitmap and to the file header (and probably a file header allocation bitmap) and to the directory.

These hot spots are the problem, not the file data.

That shouldn't be a problem, because the wear levelling algorithms of the flash controller would take care of it.

[Erasmus]

That shouldn't be a problem, because the wear levelling algorithms of the flash controller would take care of it.

OK, hypothetical situation. Say the flash disk is completely full of information, but just a few bits need to be changed often. What is the controller going to do? If it uses a different spot to put the new information, that means it has to write over some other data, and if we don't want that data to be written over because we might need it soon, where's it going to go? Somewhere else, over the top of something else we might need?

If the disk is full, any wear levelling methods won't work. The only way they can work is if a large portion of the drive is left empty, so new data can be written over empty cells, and where the original data was can be left until the wear levelling algorithms say its that bit's turn again.

[mrtekkid]

Okay, so sorry.... maybe this was already discussed..... but does that mean that a SR MacBookPro will not be out til later this year?? Like end of 2007??

If that is the case I will pull the trigger on the Mac Book Pro now and buy it. My patience grows thin with Apple.

I am switching and I was planning on getting one this summer if it was going to be released but I want a Mac now and I am tired of all of these delays. But if the hardware is not being updated until the end of the year, I cannot see the advantage in waiting any longer.

I need a mac for school.

[mrjmaxdp]

I was considering buying a Macbook Pro for college this upcoming fall. So after reading this, I'm guessing that the new one is not going to come out until late 07 or early 08? great... One of my coaches who has Apple stock and who really is up to date with Apple says sometime around June, which is what I was hoping for, like during WWDC. What do you guys think I should do? Get it now, or wait until it comes up? Thanks for the support.

[Poopface Morty]

I was considering buying a Macbook Pro for college this upcoming fall. So after reading this, I'm guessing that the new one is not going to come out until late 07 or early 08? great... One of my coaches who has Apple stock and who really is up to date with Apple says sometime around June, which is what I was hoping for, like during WWDC. What do you guys think I should do? Get it now, or wait until it comes up? Thanks for the support.

I think there's some confusion, as this forum post that is linked from the MacBook Pro buyer's guide section is specifically referring to the subnotebooks which haven't been released. At least, that's how I understand.

[sugarmagnolia]

I think there's some confusion, as this forum post that is linked from the MacBook Pro buyer's guide section is specifically referring to the subnotebooks which haven't been released. At least, that's how I understand.

so there are no rumors about the macbook pro being updated?

[Erasmus]

THERE ARE NO RUMOURS AS TO WHEN THE MACBOOK PRO WILL BE UPDATED, AS IS TO BE EXPECTED FROM APPLE.

Again, this thread has nothing to do with updates of Apple's existing lines. Apple will not wait until the end of the year to release Santa Rosa Macbook Pros. They will not. That would put the time since refresh at well over a year. Apple usually refreshes notebooks twice a year.

The Santa Rosa Macbook Pros will come at latest July, far more likely June WWDC, and possibly later this month.

As far as anyone who doesn't specifically want an Apple subnotebook should be concerned, and is waiting for an update to existing products, you should assume that the Apple subnotebook DOES NOT EXIST, and WILL NEVER EXIST.
If you specifically want one, well, maybe it does. But its existence and or release date will not affect the release of other Apple products.