Panther Screenshots [Archive]

Sol

Jun 21, 2003, 02:08 AM

No big surprises here. OS X.3 seems like a refined OS X.2.

The Activity Monitor utility seems like an improvement over previous monitoring applications.

The new DVD player may look better but there is no sign of surround sound options (maybe the optical audio rumor is just that).

Expose is novel enough but we have yet to see it in action; clever Open GL graphics in the Finder perhaps?

The Finder Get Info window seems like The Son Of HappyMac. Glad to see he has grown so much since last year.

We do not accept money from Finder Labels in this Mac. Glad to see one of OS 9's best UI features make an overdue return.

iChat with video and audio streaming? I would like to know if it will work with any FireWire camera or just USB.

Mail is same old and so is System Preferences.

Looks like the Apple Mouse is still the same.

ibookin'

Jun 21, 2003, 02:11 AM

Originally posted by kishba
can someone post a mirror?

I'd host it but I don't want to swamp my connection.

übergeek saved them and sent them to me, and I have to say that they look really good. I hope that the changes are more than skin-deep, however. More speed for my iMachines would be much appreciated.

Eric-C

Jun 21, 2003, 02:11 AM

A very generous person at apple insider's forum posted the pictures.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26400

EDIT: The pictures are no longer posted.

Agasthya

Jun 21, 2003, 02:15 AM

Originally posted by Eric-C
A very generous person at apple insider's forum posted the pictures.

http://forums.appleinsider.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=26400

Also mirrored on this MacNN thread:
http://forums.macnn.com/showthread.php?s=&postid=1453203

Abstract

Jun 21, 2003, 02:16 AM

I'll need tissue paper to clean the drool off my pants. :D

Oh wait......that's not drool!! :( :o

I like the "Expose in action" pic. Niiiiiice!! I just wished that iChat was more like Trillian (on Windows) and supported 5 different types of IM types. Trillian logs me into all of them at the same time, and makes it easier for me to use because every contact is on one list and I don't need to worry about which IM I use.

simX

Jun 21, 2003, 02:18 AM

Doesn't look like any are posted. I love these "generous" people who put the screenshots up for two seconds and then take them down because someone else mirrored them.

(HINT: Mirrors are supposed to lighten the load on everybody by spreading the pictures to more mirrors!)

Stridder44

Jun 21, 2003, 02:21 AM

Originally posted by simX
Doesn't look like any are posted. I love these "generous" people who put the screenshots up for two seconds and then take them down because someone else mirrored them.

Yeah, really:p

j33pd0g

Jun 21, 2003, 02:23 AM

I can't wait, those pics of the refined aqua were all I needed to get worked up over panther. I just hope it runs on my 1.25 dp G4. There weren't any screenshots of "piles" though. Lables looked nice! I like how they had the rounded color backdrop in the icons text.

Eric-C

Jun 21, 2003, 02:24 AM

Did you get to see them from the link that Agasthya provided? I think they're still up.

iMike_4OSX

Jun 21, 2003, 02:25 AM

Hey everybody, it's iMike, the editor-in-chief at 4 OS X.

Please mirror these and help us out as much as you can. We didn't expect to take such a hit and we didn't know the server couldn't handle it, mainly because it's never happened before. :(

Sorry to those who couldn't get through, but mirroring should ease the traffic a bit.

Thanks!

Agasthya

Jun 21, 2003, 02:26 AM

Originally posted by Eric-C
Did you get to see them from the link that Agasthya provided? I think they're still up.

As long as the university of illinois or apple don't email me to take them down, they will remain online :)

jessefoxperry

Jun 21, 2003, 02:26 AM

here's a miror for u all's enjoyment! long live apple! apple WILL role the universe come Monday.

http://www.microplate.com/PANTHER

Jesse Perry

TPistrix

Jun 21, 2003, 02:28 AM

damson34

Jun 21, 2003, 02:30 AM

the only thing i have noticed on the pics is that on the icon for iCal in the dock the day is grey not black.

Abstract

Jun 21, 2003, 02:31 AM

They're still at 4OSX. You just have to wait or reload. I went to the link, which gave me the message board, but no pictures (text only), then went to the mirror, which didn't work for me either, but when I went back to 4OSX, all the pictures appeared.

@The Grinch: You already stole Christmas and had your fun. Don't steal these photos. :(

@Satan: You too, Lucy!!!

*shakes fist in air like an angry old man*

Eric-C

Jun 21, 2003, 02:33 AM

Ok. So we've got intel on the new G5 towers and Panther... Now all we need is the scoop on laptops... Oh man... I'm headed for college in the fall and I could really use an updated 15incher. I'm praying for a 970 in that bad boy, but I'd be willing to settle for any kind of update at WWDC or at least this week/month.

I'm in the same situation. What's worse - my college requires that I have a laptop, so when school finally begins and if the powerbooks aren't upgraded, I'll have to spend money on unwanted hardware.

Choppaface

Jun 21, 2003, 02:34 AM

eee gad, there better be a way to turn the metal off... they used it way too much and it looks really tacky now bleh!

Sol

Jun 21, 2003, 02:35 AM

I bet Apple is monitoring these threads to see where the pictures pop up next.

Give us an iPod for video allready!

macdop

Jun 21, 2003, 02:36 AM

We have blazingly fast G5s coming out, and this awesome looking OS just on the horizon, I can't believe how incredible these things are going to be, I bet I know the big use that they are going to start putting quartz extreme under, and if it is what I think it is, it's going to be damn near revolutionary!

Xenex

Jun 21, 2003, 02:37 AM

Mac OS X 10.3 "Panther" images. (http://www.opinionstick.com/panther/)

zuggerat

Jun 21, 2003, 02:37 AM

i think that screen capture was done on a powerbook cause if u notice on the taskbar at the top far right there's the battery symbol and that makes think that its on a laptop so maybe the 15" 970's are in good shape for monday or shortly afterwards

aafuss1

Jun 21, 2003, 02:38 AM

The screenshots were still viewable in the orginal thread. Generally the screenshots are well done-.

wildmac

Jun 21, 2003, 02:38 AM

Originally posted by iShater
Hmm, they look good. Now, the question is which part is going to be worth the paying for the upgrade? :confused:

The 64 bit optimization!!!!! That's what! :D :D :D In other words, what's under the hood.....

Sol

Jun 21, 2003, 02:39 AM

Originally posted by macdop
I bet I know the big use that they are going to start putting quartz extreme under

Care to share it with us?

I think Quartz will be used to do real-time scaling of each window and with the press of a button all the windows will scale to fit together in one screen.

Abstract

Jun 21, 2003, 02:44 AM

Originally posted by Eric-C
I'm in the same situation. What's worse - my college requires that I have a laptop, so when school finally begins and if the powerbooks aren't upgraded, I'll have to spend money on unwanted hardware.

Thats an expensive requirement. :o I have to get a laptop as well, but I'm going to another country to do so, and it only makes sense for me.

I think there may be PB's at 1.2 GHz, but I'm not too sure about 1.4GHz. You never know what will happen since you don't know how hot the laptops get with the 970 inside.

@Zuggerat: Good eyes. Eyes of a hawk. Now if you had the strength of a bear and the speed of a puma, you'd be my hero. ;)

edenwaith

Jun 21, 2003, 02:45 AM

One thing I'm very glad to see is the Print Center now in the System Preferences. One anti-Mac person I used to work with hated Macs. One of his main irks was how in OS 7-9, changing printers was through the Chooser. Yes, doesn't make much sense. And in OS X, the printer has once again been kept away from all of the other control/system preferences. Now, however, it seems like it has been finally joined up where it belongs.

And I think the metal look in Finder is kind of ugly. I'll stick with the standard Aqua interface, thanks.

zuggerat

Jun 21, 2003, 02:46 AM

pianojoe

Jun 21, 2003, 02:51 AM

Umph! Now that's what I call "major redesign"!

digitalgiant

Jun 21, 2003, 02:51 AM

and when i come home i get this!! so nice. bah, to drunk to say anymore on this and this girl wants me to finish what i started. i cant wait till monday!!

later boys!!

<edit for bad spelling, glad i brought home an english teacher:)>

maradong

Jun 21, 2003, 02:52 AM

wellwell ;-)
in about 5 minutes
http://www.luxadmin.org/~hentges/pics/panther/
should be a mirror as well.
Have phun. ;-)

MacBandit

Jun 21, 2003, 02:57 AM

I don't know about anyone else but I am way more excited about 10.3 then I am the new desktops. The new desktops are great and all but unless I can seel my current MDD Powermac for a decent price I won't be getting a new tower for a couple years yet. On the other hand if 10.3 is as revolutionary as 10.2 was I can't wait. To the guy saying that they hope it will run on their dual/1.25 I hope you are joking. The word I am getting is it is faster then 10.2 on all hardware even old unsuported hardware on a factor slightly greater then the difference between 10.1.5 and 10.2. For newer hardware with a modern graphics card it will be even faster as Quartz Extreme has had an overhaul and is doing much much more and has brought a whole new level of zip to the system. Also I don't think metal is the only view in the finder. Notice the comment on the 4osx page saying that the screenshot is of the Finder using the brush metal look. This seems to infer that there are other choices. I personally don't have a problem with brush metal but I can understand why people would want choices. Personally for me Expose is the one feature that has got me wetting myself. The ability to set hot corners of the screen or key combinations that when activated magically zoom out and organize your windows allowing you to chose the one you want and then go back to the regular view is a dream. Let me rephrase that. A WET DREAM!!! Also folder actions is really cool. Imagine opening your picture folder and having your photo app automatically launching so it's ready for a no wait load of your photo when you double click it.

All I want to hear from Steve on Monday is that 10.3 will be available very soon and that I can preorder NOW!!!

wrc fan

Jun 21, 2003, 02:59 AM

rogueimage

Jun 21, 2003, 03:00 AM

Originally posted by zuggerat
i think that screen capture was done on a powerbook cause if u notice on the taskbar at the top far right there's the battery symbol and that makes think that its on a laptop so maybe the 15" 970's are in good shape for monday or shortly afterwards

is this possible in anyone elses opinion

Well, the size of the screenshot is 1151x767. The second highest resolution the 15" TiBook does is 1152x768. No other Apple display comes as close to this resolution. I'm not quite sure why there would be a pixel missing in each dimension, but I would say the screenshots were definitely taken on a 15" Powerbook. I don't think there's anything more that can be inferred from this. Hopefully there will be new Powerbooks, though.

Edit: was typing this while the previous message was being posted. I agree with OaklandBum that it could have been a current Powerbook. It seems a little odd that they would not use the native resolution of the LCD, though.

PowerBook User

Jun 21, 2003, 03:06 AM

Originally posted by edenwaith

And I think the metal look in Finder is kind of ugly. I'll stick with the standard Aqua interface, thanks.
I agree. However, I hope there are themes for the OS (aqua, metal, etc.). I actually like the more 3D aqua used in OS 10.0-10.1.5.

zuggerat

Jun 21, 2003, 03:08 AM

i dont think the apple displays had a 15" widescreen other than whats on the powerbook

richie

Jun 21, 2003, 03:09 AM

*Wow*

It took me a few minutes to work out what Exposé did, but now I get it... even wower!

zuggerat

Jun 21, 2003, 03:10 AM

i think i missed the whole point...im tired

shadowfax

Jun 21, 2003, 03:12 AM

the new features are cool, but i am shocked at the way they took away the pretty halftones on the titlebars. that alleviated the monotone of them for me a lot better than those icky gray to gray linear gradients. and it looked really classy. i noticed on that shot of the sysprefs from that spymac link that the prefs window still had that halftoning. i dearly hope apple doesn't force a third party to undertake theme support. apple could do such a wonderful job at that. even if they don't have open theming, i hope they will let us keep the halftoning on the windows. i like the recessed buttons, but that is just too much to put that milk-style titlebarring in there. :(

MacBandit

Jun 21, 2003, 03:16 AM

Originally posted by Shadowfax
the new features are cool, but i am shocked at the way they took away the pretty halftones on the titlebars. that alleviated the monotone of them for me a lot better than those icky gray to gray linear gradients. and it looked really classy. i noticed on that shot of the sysprefs from that spymac link that the prefs window still had that halftoning. i dearly hope apple doesn't force a third party to undertake theme support. apple could do such a wonderful job at that. even if they don't have open theming, i hope they will let us keep the halftoning on the windows. i like the recessed buttons, but that is just too much to put that milk-style titlebarring in there. :(

I agree the the title bars are kind of blah but at the same time I am really glad they are getting rid of the striped title bars. Now if they could only come up with someway of differentiating the title bar from the rest of the page in a classy way they would have it made.

celaurie

Jun 21, 2003, 03:17 AM

*speechless* ;)

jimthorn

Jun 21, 2003, 03:23 AM

Originally posted by damson34
the only thing i have noticed on the pics is that on the icon for iCal in the dock the day is grey not black.

That's how mine looks on my iBook. I could swear the number was black with the original release of iCal, but sometime in the last few months, the number became more grey instead of black. The default "JUL 17" icon looks fine (black), but when I launch the app, it changes to gray. It's kind of annoying. If anyone knows how to fix this, it would make me happy.

Archmage

Jun 21, 2003, 03:25 AM

Hit me up on AIM/iChat or email if you want a copy of these images.

randy.walker@mac.com

I only have so much bandwidth each month, or I'd offer a real mirror.

MacBandit

Jun 21, 2003, 03:30 AM

Originally posted by jimthorn
That's how mine looks on my iBook. I could swear the number was black with the original release of iCal, but sometime in the last few months, the number became more grey instead of black. The default "JUL 17" icon looks fine (black), but when I launch the app, it changes to gray. It's kind of annoying. If anyone knows how to fix this, it would make me happy.

Mines black even after launch.

jimthorn

Jun 21, 2003, 03:35 AM

After looking over the pictures, I think one of the coolest things is Expose. It took some examination to figure out what it was doing, and how it was activated, but very cool. It uses "active corners" to display selected types of running apps. The screenshot of the control panel shows "Application Windows", "Desktop", "All Windows", and inactive corners, but presumably this will be fairly configurable, so that you could even switch from one app to another with a simple mouse gesture. You could have more apps open than would fit the screen, but not have to work to get at the one(s) you need. I love the idea, and I can't wait to see it in action on Monday. :p

VIREBEL661

Jun 21, 2003, 03:45 AM

Weird it took this long to get some Panther shots... I could have missed something, though..

awulf

Jun 21, 2003, 03:45 AM

I Have set up a Mirror:
http://www.pacmeb.com/forum/index.php?act=ST&f=10&t=10&s

I like the new milky look of the aqua windows but Brushed metal doesn't fit in the finder.

Awimoway

Jun 21, 2003, 03:52 AM

I'm very disappointed to see no theme support in the prefs panel. If it's not there, I don't think they'll have it.

As for Piles, I don't agree that there is no evidence of piles, just none in use in these shots. Couldn't that be one of the folder actions?

Overall, it looks like nice but I'm not sure it will be worth $100+ like Jaguar. $49 or less would be more reasonable, but I'm not holding my breath.

PowerBook User

Jun 21, 2003, 03:59 AM

Does anyone think Steve will say anything about Panther's price on Monday?

nagromme

Jun 21, 2003, 04:04 AM

Looks great--a work in progress, and this is just a glimpse--but great. Labels... thank you! Mac OS 9? What's that?

I like the subtle appearance changes--although the window titles are a mystery. Inactive windows have stripes and active ones don't? I doubt Apple would truly allow theming (it dillutes brand recognition) but maybe they have offered additional built-in themes?

Exposé looks VERY cool! With that and MIP (please??) who'd need windowshade?

Apple could have made Panther just by tweaking and polishing Jaguar, and adding in some missing stuff from 9. Looks like they went MUCH farther than that.

I hope the images turn out to be real on Monday. Panther excites me more than new towers!

If every attendee gets a preview CD, we'll get lots more to look at soon!

I knew there was a reason I couldn't sleep and got up again...

jimthorn

Jun 21, 2003, 04:05 AM

Originally posted by PowerBook User
Does anyone think Steve will say anything about Panther's price on Monday?

Probably not. Apple tends not to state a price until the product is ready. Plus Steve's goal on Monday is tell you how cool it is, get you to drool all over yourself, and then tell you it won't be out for another few months. Then when the release date hits, people will be willing to line up again to shell out their $129 (?). I was there last year on release night. There were a lot of freakin' people lined up with cash in hand.

QCassidy352

Jun 21, 2003, 04:09 AM

Originally posted by PowerBook User
Does anyone think Steve will say anything about Panther's price on Monday?

ah, that is my real question. Panther looks cool... but I just bought an ibook 900, and I'm not about to pay $120 more for an OS upgrade that will soon be shipping as a standard feature of the same model mac that I have.

macdop

Jun 21, 2003, 04:23 AM

...wouldn't to be mind-blowing if Panther was ready, as well as the G5s? Not gonna happen, but if it did, that would be real cool

nagromme

Jun 21, 2003, 04:24 AM

Next question: what will Microsoft call Exposé when they steal it and add it to Longhorn?

iMike_4OSX

Jun 21, 2003, 04:33 AM

Good question. Probably Exposure or something unimaginative like that. :p

Spart

Jun 21, 2003, 04:37 AM

Originally posted by rogueimage
Well, the size of the screenshot is 1151x767. The second highest resolution the 15" TiBook does is 1152x768. No other Apple display comes as close to this resolution. I'm not quite sure why there would be a pixel missing in each dimension, but I would say the screenshots were definitely taken on a 15" Powerbook. I don't think there's anything more that can be inferred from this. Hopefully there will be new Powerbooks, though.

Edit: was typing this while the previous message was being posted. I agree with OaklandBum that it could have been a current Powerbook. It seems a little odd that they would not use the native resolution of the LCD, though.

It isn't really all that odd at all. Try this yourself: use command+shift+4 to take a screen shot (so that you get the selection tool.) Try to capture the entire image. Notice that, although you selected the entire screen with the marquee, the resulting image is one pixel smaller in both dimensions...

holmesf

Jun 21, 2003, 04:57 AM

Originally posted by iMike_4OSX
Good question. Probably Exposure or something unimaginative like that. :p

Extortion perhaps? Oh wait, thats what they call their day to day bussiness.

kirk26

Jun 21, 2003, 05:19 AM

Originally posted by macdong
you don't need to.
just buy a new PowerMac G5 later when OS X 10.3 is shipping.

Exactly! I waited for one of my clients to get the new G4's last year and it shipped with Jaguar! Woohoo! All my Macs clients are drooling about the Mac news lately.

vollspacken

Jun 21, 2003, 05:23 AM

... sweet, nice that it looks like a careful evolution of jaguar... I like that!

I hope they finally add ICQ-support for iChat.

piles? who needs piles anyway...

vSpacken

gotohamish

Jun 21, 2003, 05:27 AM

Originally posted by QCassidy352
ah, that is my real question. Panther looks cool... but I just bought an ibook 900, and I'm not about to pay $120 more for an OS upgrade that will soon be shipping as a standard feature of the same model mac that I have.

Fair enough - but when the rest of us buy it and rave about it's amazing features, what will you think then? Would you buy a great stereo and cheap speakers? Get the best you can for everything, and you will be given the best in return.

rockman2023

Jun 21, 2003, 05:29 AM

I'd bounce off walls if I could!!! :D
As far as themes go, IF they're in Panther, then it's gotta be in the Appearance pane, as was Appearance in OS9. Login Items isnt in Sys Prefs, neither is the single account pane or ColorSync. Security seems to be new; I wonder if it has to do with Firewall prefs or what not. Also, Help is gone from the contextual menu.
[edit] Looks like Internet was changed to .Mac [edit]

Summer school sux. I HAVE to go class on monday (finals coming up and all). I'm gonna check the stream (if I can) during my break @ 1:45-2:00. I might even stay @ school and watch the whole thing if I can :D

[edit] HOLD UP?!!! A while back, it was stated here on MR that Panther would include Quicktime 6.5; we're only up to 6.3 now. Maybe Panther wont be available soon after all..... :( [edit]

TMA

Jun 21, 2003, 05:36 AM

Don't know if this has been mentioned already (i'm dashing about getting ready for work) Someone over at AI mentioned this:

Look at the Mouse/Keyboard pref pane icon in the screenshots and compare it to the current Mouse icon - I can't see any wire in the screenshot icon!? Could be because the image of the mouse is reduced but it could also be a big big clue!

rockman2023

Jun 21, 2003, 05:39 AM

Originally posted by TMA
Don't know if this has been mentioned already (i'm dashing about getting ready for work) Someone over at AI mentioned this:

Look at the Mouse/Keyboard pref pane icon in the screenshots and compare it to the current Mouse icon - I can't see any wire in the screenshot icon!? Could be because the image of the mouse is reduced but it could also be a big big clue!

Interesting, but I woudnt jump the gun just yet. Never know though......Apple......

backspinner

Jun 21, 2003, 05:40 AM

At last, print center in the system preferences. No more searching for these prefs in the utilities folder.

And it says "print & fax". Fax software by Apple?

inkswamp

Jun 21, 2003, 05:48 AM

Originally posted by nagromme
Exposé looks VERY cool! With that and MIP (please??) who'd need windowshade?

Exposé sounds great, but it doesn't look like a replacement for windowshade, nor is the ability to minimize to the dock. Maybe it's just my line of work or how I interact with the UI, but I find that I frequently used windowshade to hide the front window to peek briefly at something in another window when I didn't want to bring any other window forward. It was a great way to view another window then return to your primary window and a very efficient approach.

To look behind the current window in 9, you click the windowshade button, look, click again with no mousing around. Quick, easy, efficient. In X, minimizing windows involves hitting the minimize button, looking, then going over to the dock and bringing the window back. Too much mousing around for such a simple need. Exposé sounds great, but it doesn't look like a replacement for windowshade. MIP would be cool and would offer that functionality, but I doubt we'll see it. For whatever reason, Apple seems to have adopted a somewhat snotty attitude toward all thing 9 and only begrudgingly give back those features. Not sure why.

Anyway, I just want 10.3 to give me back text clippings that work correctly (for God's sake why can't you copy the contents of a clipping to the clipboard as in 9????) and windowshade and I will be one happy camper. I'm not kidding. I'll gladly pay the upgrade price for those things alone, if it means I don't have to install some skanky hack that will hose my system at some random point in the future.

The rest will be icing on the cake. Fingers crossed.

inkswamp

Jun 21, 2003, 05:51 AM

Originally posted by nagromme
Next question: what will Microsoft call Exposé when they steal it and add it to Longhorn?

XPosé, of course.

soggywulf

Jun 21, 2003, 06:19 AM

Originally posted by Sol
The new DVD player may look better but there is no sign of surround sound options (maybe the optical audio rumor is just that).

The optical output may be a simple stereo PCM 16-bit 44-khz stream. It doesn't have to be surround to be optical.

That said, I still think the optical out exists and is used for surround (AC3) when playing DVDs. You don't need any "output controls" on the DVD player to make this happen. Both analog and digital outputs can be active simultaneously, and there is really no choice for the user to make other than to hook up their amps to one or the other.

Golem

Jun 21, 2003, 06:40 AM

Originally posted by rockman2023 \

[edit] HOLD UP?!!! A while back, it was stated here on MR that Panther would include Quicktime 6.5; we're only up to 6.3 now. Maybe Panther wont be available soon after all..... :( [edit] [/B]

Just because we are at 6.3 and a 6.5 will be released in future doesnt imply a 6.4 will be released in between, ie 6.3 was a .1 upgrade from 6.2 and 6.5 will be a .5 upgrade from 6.x series.

shadowfax

Jun 21, 2003, 06:41 AM

Originally posted by nagromme
Next question: what will Microsoft call Exposé when they steal it and add it to Longhorn? i am thinking they will call it "striptease" or something like that.

I was thinking, you know, a company needs a sense of humor to do that, but hey, MS codenamed their next OS "Longhorn." not "Khan." not "Tiger." not even "Rhino." "Longhorn." that's kind of funny, eh? what do they expect it to do, spear the competition with its horns? maybe bill was just feeling kind of horny. which brings me back to what they will call their implementation of "expose..."

billyboy

Jun 21, 2003, 06:51 AM

If the info is correct I hopefully just saw my doddery old 867Mhz PB processor breathe a huge sigh of relief as a few CPU hogging haxies and beta products get binned in place of "proper Apple" video conferencing software. Also, goodbye some clever but buggy haxie for getting all windows up on the desktop, hallo expose, and goodbye Camino hallo a full blown Safari.

If Panther is extremely efficient and nippy, does that mean that the resale value of my PB loaded with Panther will rise and become a tasty proposition for a switcher not blind to the current deficiencies in Jaguar?

BTW what are these labels?

makkystyle

Jun 21, 2003, 07:01 AM

Originally posted by rogueimage
Well, the size of the screenshot is 1151x767. The second highest resolution the 15" TiBook does is 1152x768. No other Apple display comes as close to this resolution. I'm not quite sure why there would be a pixel missing in each dimension, but I would say the screenshots were definitely taken on a 15" Powerbook. I don't think there's anything more that can be inferred from this. Hopefully there will be new Powerbooks, though.

Edit: was typing this while the previous message was being posted. I agree with OaklandBum that it could have been a current Powerbook. It seems a little odd that they would not use the native resolution of the LCD, though.

One thing I noticed is on the full screen shot the windows for safari and iPhoto are really small. I mean they are full windows just miniaturized. I have a 15-inch PB and was trying to get my windows to look like that, but I couldn't figure out how to. I'm on the highest resolution. Is there a way to scale down the viewable size of a window? And before someone says "drag the bottom right corner", I'm talking about shrinking the icon and font size as well. Just take a look at the screen shot and look how small iPhoto is!! It's less than a quarter of the screen. Compare this to the font size of the Safari finder bar at the top of the screen. Can you do this is 10.2??

shadowfax

Jun 21, 2003, 07:05 AM

Originally posted by makkystyle
One thing I noticed is on the full screen shot the windows for safari and iPhoto are really small. I mean they are full windows just miniaturized. I have a 15-inch PB and was trying to get my windows to look like that, but I couldn't figure out how to. I'm on the highest resolution. Is there a way to scale down the viewable size of a window? And before someone says "drag the bottom right corner", I'm talking about shrinking the icon and font size as well. Just take a look at the screen shot and look how small iPhoto is!! It's less than a quarter of the screen. Compare this to the font size of the Safari finder bar at the top of the screen. Can you do this is 10.2?? it's apparently the new Panther Exposé feature that organizes all your windows in a shrunken state so you can evaluate what you've got going on or something along those lines.

Sol

Jun 21, 2003, 07:24 AM

Jaguar can allready do window scaling.

Try this:

Hold down Shift and click on the yellow button of your web-browser...

Nice, isn't it?

Thom_Edwards

Jun 21, 2003, 07:57 AM

Originally posted by digitalgiant
and when i come home i get this!! so nice. bah, to drunk to say anymore on this and this girl wants me to finish what i started. i cant wait till monday!!

later boys!!

<edit for bad spelling, glad i brought home an english teacher:)>

<MarvAlbertVoice>YES!!!</MarvAlbertVoice>

Manuel Moreno

Jun 21, 2003, 08:06 AM

themes & sounds?
font size?
speed?
:confused:

some screenshots are very lamme, too.
i don't like the look of panther.
:mad:

Thom_Edwards

Jun 21, 2003, 08:20 AM

i'm with everybody else, here--can't wait. like rock 'n roll, i think this os x thing is here to stay!:)

i won't reitereate all the things i like cuz they're the same things everyone has mentioned. one thing NOT mentioned is the mail toolbar. look at the compose button--now it will be a full sized icon. i don't know bout you guys, but some buzzed up, late nite emailing with the current mail can be tough. trying to target that skinny little pencil to start a new mail to your ex-girlfriend, who really doesn't want to hear your drunken ramblings, turns into a game of chance!:D

i realize this is trivial, but it's just another example of the attention to detail that our dear brothers/developers at apple put in to things.

these panther features, along with the new hardware expectations, makes it a great time to be a machead. gitty up!

(sorry for the back-to-back posts. i made the "YES!!!" post just above as i was making my way through the pages...)

AppleMatt

Jun 21, 2003, 08:40 AM

Something I noticed...there's no "Open with >" on the contextual menu, I use that all the time :(

Also the selection on the system preferences seems to have gone back to OS 10 style, a box around the icon.

I LOVE the dividers on the contexual menus though, Jaguar has been crying out for those.

I hope they include at least some kind of theming, perhaps 10.1 style, 10.2 style and 10.3 style (default). Customisation would be cool too. Also there is another minimisation effect built into Jaguar that isn't activated, I hope that is in 10.3 (trivial I know).

The new DVD player looks so much nicer than the current one.

LABELS!!! LABELS!!!! LABELS!!!

AppleMatt

Stella

Jun 21, 2003, 08:40 AM

I like the look of the flatter screens. I wonder if apple needed to remove some of the previous Aqua look to help push the performance of OSX up? (ThinkSecret did an article that Apple wanted significant performance improvements in Panther).

I'd gladly pay $199 (CA) again if Panther turns out to be a significant upgrade.

Shame Apple can't introduce Virtual Desktops. Currently I use CodeTek, but have a VD support shipped with the OS would be very nice.

gotohamish

Jun 21, 2003, 08:41 AM

In response to the person saying the new Mouse SP icon doesn't have a cord - nor did the 'old' on in Jaguar - doesn't mean it's wireless.

And...

If you look at the icon in SP for Appearance - it shows striped aqua - which might mean you can switch back to 'jaguar' aqua if you like? Maybe.

AppleMatt

Jun 21, 2003, 09:05 AM

Just noticed...top of expose2.jpg (the big desktop window), the file "Picture 4" is highlighted, it has a transparent box over it.

I quite like the current pinstripes, but the new style really lets the icons on the menu bar really stand out.

AppleMatt

DavisBAnimal

Jun 21, 2003, 09:08 AM

Originally posted by AppleMatt
Something I noticed...there's no "Open with >" on the contextual menu, I use that all the time :(

When I first saw that I was kind of bummed, too, since I use "Open with..." all the time. But then with all the talk of "Folder Actions" there on the bottom partition, I figured that pic was a contextual menu coming off of a Folder, in which case there is no need for "Open with...". Control-Clicking on a folder in Jaguar doesn't have an "Open with..."

Davis

AppleMatt

Jun 21, 2003, 09:13 AM

Originally posted by DavisBAnimal
When I first saw that I was kind of bummed, too, since I use "Open with..." all the time. But then with all the talk of "Folder Actions" there on the bottom partition, I figured that pic was a contextual menu coming off of a Folder, in which case there is no need for "Open with...". Control-Clicking on a folder in Jaguar doesn't have an "Open with..."

Davis

Fantastic! Well spotted! I was surprised that Apple had got rid of it, it looks now like they haven't.

AppleMatt

macmax

Jun 21, 2003, 09:42 AM

If Apple told us the last time that their money will be coming mainly from laptops, why are we thinking that the 970 could not make it's debut in a Powerbook?
Did you notice the battery symbol????

dietsoda

Jun 21, 2003, 09:46 AM

Overall it looks good, but I'm not that impressed ith two things:

1. the title bars do look very much like the Milk (http://homepage.mac.com/max_08/themes/milk.htm) skin. Which i kinda like, but is a little bit bright, and a touch tacky.

2. the labels look horrid. if the losenges lost the gradient highlight it would be better, and i hope we'll be able to specify custom colours through the appearence prefpane.

can't wait!

Veldek

Jun 21, 2003, 09:50 AM

Originally posted by macmax
If Apple told us the last time that their money will be coming mainly from laptops, why are we thinking that the 970 could not make it's debut in a Powerbook?
Did you notice the battery symbol????

And did YOU notice the possibility of Panther running on a laptop without a 970 in it? Or do you think 10.3 will only run on the new hardware?

Macboom

Jun 21, 2003, 09:56 AM

just found the screenshots on another site openc.org :

http://www.openc.org/B1060014028/C973201619/E1857769454/index.html

they have something on that PAL thing as well ..

h'biki

Jun 21, 2003, 10:01 AM

Originally posted by vollspacken

piles? who needs piles anyway...

Actually, if PILES are like Smart Playlists in iTunes they would be very very useful.

To use an example a friend of mine gave (he's a pro shake compositor)... it'd be great to have a folder that shows all your latest shake scripts.

For me (I'm mostly an audio/video editor) being able to have a folder of all my latest protools sessions or final cut pro project files would be great...

These would be especially cool if they automatically resolved the aliases in copying.

That way I could make backups every day to my iPod of my new sessions/projects easily.

The possibilities are great :)

redAPPLE

Jun 21, 2003, 10:36 AM

miradu

Jun 21, 2003, 10:51 AM

I'm not sure I like he user interface changes - It's doesn't have the same candy appeal anymore.

More importantly, there is no way Apple is going to be able to charge for this. Mail and iChat should be free upgrades for 10.2 owners, so that doesn't leave many features left to charge for. Let's hope Apple keeps the pattern and only charge for even releases :)

Freg3000

Jun 21, 2003, 10:52 AM

All the photos from the SpyMac Gallery have been removed from their database!

Apple is making the rounds....

Sol

Jun 21, 2003, 11:00 AM

Now really, do we really need 970 PowerMacs to use Finder labels?

elo

Jun 21, 2003, 11:03 AM

Originally posted by h'biki
Actually, if PILES are like Smart Playlists in iTunes they would be very very useful.

To use an example a friend of mine gave (he's a pro shake compositor)... it'd be great to have a folder that shows all your latest shake scripts.

For me (I'm mostly an audio/video editor) being able to have a folder of all my latest protools sessions or final cut pro project files would be great...

These would be especially cool if they automatically resolved the aliases in copying.

That way I could make backups every day to my iPod of my new sessions/projects easily.

The possibilities are great :)

I think you're confusing Piles and Folder Actions. The latter are AppleScriptable, so you can use them for things like what you're discussing. Piles are also cool, but not at all the same thing. Think of them as a loose organizational tool for non-hierarchically grouped items.

elo

Abstract

Jun 21, 2003, 11:06 AM

Originally posted by nagromme
Next question: what will Microsoft call Exposé when they steal it and add it to Longhorn?

XP. Oops, they already used that name. :p

zach

Jun 21, 2003, 11:10 AM

Hey, i'm a little confused here.

Do we know these are real screenshots? If we do, I'm drooling. Hell, I'm drooling anyway, but I was just wondering whether these are confirmed. If someone could help out poor confused me, that would be great.

Anyway, I happen to like the metal themes alot. did anyone else notice the metal seems to be toned down a bit, for instance in mail? I like it, cause while I like Metal in Jaguar, it is a bit too dominating to be used for Finder.

Just my two cents.

venture160

Jun 21, 2003, 11:10 AM

in response to the audio questions regarding the DVD player and surround sound....

notice the drop down menu's for the audio button and the subtitles as well. The surround sound could be there. Just an idea

FrankMtl65

Jun 21, 2003, 11:20 AM

If this is what I think it is then Apple finally wised up about the crappy 3rd party fax software and included their own. Here's to hoping they bought GlobalFax's (probably the best fax software but only available with the now-defunct Global Village modems) code and spruced it up for X.

Frank

Flowbee

Jun 21, 2003, 11:25 AM

Originally posted by miradu

More importantly, there is no way Apple is going to be able to charge for this. Mail and iChat should be free upgrades for 10.2 owners, so that doesn't leave many features left to charge for. Let's hope Apple keeps the pattern and only charge for even releases :)

I think it's wrong to assume that these screen shots represent *all* of the new features of Panther. I'm sure there will be tons more (at least as many as Jaguar claimed). I'd be verrrry surprised if it's free. (pleasantly surprised, however)

zigzag

Jun 21, 2003, 11:29 AM

This looks fake to me, there are almost no new features. Has no one noticed this? The improvements are way too minor to be a major update, especially the way Apple has been hyping 10.3 and the WWDC.

Expose? Come on! Some little utility can do that.

Mail seems to look the same, the finder looks useless, ooh a new DVD player skin, yay.

This is total rubbish. I am amazed that so many people here seem impressed.

The new Aqua looks terrible.

I do not buy it.

EDIT: The only thing that makes me believe is the fact that there are only a couple of days to go until the keynote. But that is no valid reason to believe it!

iAlan

Jun 21, 2003, 11:33 AM

Yeah, oh ****** yeah!!

I am guessing we can either have a 'universal' metal or aqua look. Would like some other customizable features too - given it is now called 'Appearance' versus 'General' as is curently the case.

Also, where is 'Login Items' and 'My Account'? Could these be hiding someplace else?

When you select a folder/file/app on the desktop it looks like the name is highlighted, with little rounded ends!. Easy to follow

Can't wait to see what else is going on in there, and to actually see it in action. I don't know if Steve will have enough time to demo Panther, show us the new hardware, part the Red Sea and add the eleventh Comandment 'Thou Shall All Be Mac Users (OS X.3 and G5 mandatory)':p

jessefoxperry

Jun 21, 2003, 11:38 AM

zap23, yea these images are definitly real. we know they are just because there are so many. if these aren't then we'd just see like one picture that was badly done in photoshop. personally, i like how the 3 buttons are "sunk in" on the title bar, kinda like how it changed with the 10.2.5 update in safari. and in the mail screenshot, i know its not much but i like how the compose icon u press is bigger and its not just this little pencil ur trying forever to click. the new finder view is cool with the drives and favorites on the side....but let's just hope u can change that because it would get annoying i think. and maybe i just dont know what im talking about, but aren't expose a form of piles? i mean in piles the idea was to be able to quickly access a folder or doc from a bunch of little icons, right? i dunno

jessefoxperry

Jun 21, 2003, 11:40 AM

my guess is that my account and login items are in the accounts panel. and same with colorsync, probably put in the displays panel.

iAlan

Jun 21, 2003, 11:41 AM

Originally posted by jessefoxperry
...and maybe i just dont know what im talking about, but aren't expose a form of piles? i mean in piles the idea was to be able to quickly access a folder or doc from a bunch of little icons, right? i dunno

I am not really up with Piles either but i kind of agree with you. Expose sounds pretty useful in that regard.

iAlan

Jun 21, 2003, 11:42 AM

Originally posted by jessefoxperry
my guess is that my account and login items are in the accounts panel. and same with colorsync, probably put in the displays panel.

Good call!

jessefoxperry

Jun 21, 2003, 11:49 AM

and check out the finder icon in the dock, looks wierd, the smile is wider and the edges are sort of beveled, i like the current more classy look. maybe that icon just means its a beta or alpha version and they'll switch it back when panther becomes availible. the finder icon in the about box matches the old one.

mariner77

Jun 21, 2003, 11:50 AM

Have never been a fan of brushed metal and never will. I really dislike the brush metal theme of the new finder. Why can't they just stop insisting it on us? No, it'll never look good. Everything else looks cool.

jessefoxperry

Jun 21, 2003, 11:53 AM

they're not makeing us use it thankfully, u can change it back to the theme you see used for mail

AppleMatt

Jun 21, 2003, 11:55 AM

Originally posted by Sol
Now really, do we really need 970 PowerMacs to use Finder labels?

Well clearly, they are very demanding on the CPU, using them on anything less than a Dual 2GHz 970 tower would slow the system to a crawl :D

Originally posted by zigzag
This looks fake to me, there are almost no new features. Has no one noticed this? The improvements are way too minor to be a major update, especially the way Apple has been hyping 10.3 and the WWDC.

Expose? Come on! Some little utility can do that.

Mail seems to look the same, the finder looks useless, ooh a new DVD player skin, yay.

This is total rubbish. I am amazed that so many people here seem impressed.

The new Aqua looks terrible.

I do not buy it.

EDIT: The only thing that makes me believe is the fact that there are only a couple of days to go until the keynote. But that is no valid reason to believe it!

As I understand it, most of the 10.3 changes are under the hood. Apple's own internal tests cited boot speed, log-in time and UI responsiveness as target areas. Also Quartz Extreme should be getting an update (I REALLY hope so). Many applications/technologies are still using classic code (QuickTime being the most shocking example), all (?) of which have been rewritten in 10.3

Finally I think it is unfair to pass judgement on a new OS based on 12 screenshots!

AppleMatt

edit: I read this morning the speed improvement from 10.2 > 10.3 was greater than that seen from 10.1 > 10.2, even on the oldest hardware.

richie

Jun 21, 2003, 11:58 AM

Just to clarify this:

Exposé appears to be a feature whereby all the windows on screen are displayed at once, non-overlapping. They are shrunk to fit on screen so that all of them are viewable at once, allowing you to quickly select between windows by looking at them, instead of relying on window names alone. You can, it seems, choose to do this to all windows, or just to ones in the current application, simply by moving your mouse into a corner of the screen.

To me, they don't seem to be like piles, they work with currently open windows.

So, for example, and I reckon this would be *very* cool, you pick something up in the Finder, say in your Home folder. But your current folder obscures your destination folder: you drag the file to the corner of the screen, then drop the file into the destination folder, which is now viewable, and upon completion, it all snaps back. Bam!

That is, provided it works with drag and drop. :D

DGFan

Jun 21, 2003, 12:03 PM

I like the new window appearance. It looks like they splt the difference between the regular windows and the brushed metal. It almost looks like there are two options now: Brushed Metal and Non-brushed Metal.

rockman2023

Jun 21, 2003, 12:05 PM

Originally posted by Golem
Just because we are at 6.3 and a 6.5 will be released in future doesnt imply a 6.4 will be released in between, ie 6.3 was a .1 upgrade from 6.2 and 6.5 will be a .5 upgrade from 6.x series.

Eh?
What I meant was that Quicktime 6.4 still needs to be released. WHY would they skip a .x release.
We all know that QT .x releases come out every............6 to 8 weeks or so. Therefore, 6.4 might come out next month maybe, then Panter will be released in August/September with QT 6.5. Remeber folks, attendees are getting a preview version of Panther. So....we all gotta wait :(

Originally posted by richie
So, for example, and I reckon this would be *very* cool, you pick something up in the Finder, say in your Home folder. But your current folder obscures your destination folder: you drag the file to the corner of the screen, then drop the file into the destination folder, which is now viewable, and upon completion, it all snaps back. Bam!

Maybe Expose is like a souped-up verion of those collapseable windows we had in OS9. Seems like they took some OS9 features and improved on them in Panther.

As for the Finder window and the "toolbar" being on the left side, wouldn't it be nice to show file and folder info in there (like Windoze) instead of having to press Command + I each time?

zach

Jun 21, 2003, 12:09 PM

Originally posted by jessefoxperry
zap23, yea these images are definitly real. we know they are just because there are so many. if these aren't then we'd just see like one picture that was badly done in photoshop. personally, i like how the 3 buttons are "sunk in" on the title bar, kinda like how it changed with the 10.2.5 update in safari. and in the mail screenshot, i know its not much but i like how the compose icon u press is bigger and its not just this little pencil ur trying forever to click. the new finder view is cool with the drives and favorites on the side....but let's just hope u can change that because it would get annoying i think. and maybe i just dont know what im talking about, but aren't expose a form of piles? i mean in piles the idea was to be able to quickly access a folder or doc from a bunch of little icons, right? i dunno

yeah, i was pretty sure these were real. its just that in about every rumor we have people saying fake and people saying real, but here we have none of that.

im pretty sure these are real too, i was just wondering if we have any confirmation.

Goekeli

Jun 21, 2003, 12:15 PM

I hope that my ol' 867QS 1.5G RAM can keep up with the new OS. I mean, I won't even think about a hardware up grade until they are 3 times as fast or 3 times the processor power as my current old beast. I will definatly let some others go first before upgrading or doing a clean wipe and install of panther. It looks really cool. Anyone know where piles might have gone?

Goe

Jimmni

Jun 21, 2003, 12:17 PM

First, I'm really really really pissed off because I wrote this whole message and then accidentally deleted it. Seems you can't control-Z in these input boxes.

Second, I think these shots are fake, too. I hope they are for some of the reasons outlined below. I'll be going into a lot less detail in light of the fact that I'm having to type it all again. I did do an Observation/Conclusion thing, but this time I'll just make the observations and you can make your own conclusions.

I have only skimmed the thread, so apologies if these points have been brought up. Just seemed like everyone was "WOOHOO"ing without really looking closely. And similarity to other posts is just coincidence.

OBSERVATION: In the Activity Monitor window there are strange inconsistencies.

* First there are really tacky colours. Windows type tacky colour, not beautiful Apple colours.

* Second, the "% Nice" uses a , to seperate the decimals, not a . like the rest of the %'s. This smacks to me of a slip-up by someone European making the fakes.

* Third, the "Threads" and "Processes" don't line up right. Unless this is a very early build, it's very sloppy.

OBSERVATION: Yahoo Instant messenger is in the dock and on the desktop. If this is Panther, that presumably means no Yahoo support in iChat.

OBSERVATION: In the full screen of the expose desktop, Safari is all blocked out. Why? What incriminating website could he/she be looking at?

OBSERVATION: Why are the iChat windows censored totally? Why not just block them out like the Safari window?

OBSERVATION: About Finder is all wrong. "The Macintosh Desktop Experience"? And why "Finder version 10.3" rather than "Mac OS X (10.3)" like we'd expect? These aren't big things, obviously, but still...

OBSERVATION: No build number. Seems strange, since they'll most likely be giving out preview copies on Monday, and developers will want to know what build they're working with. If it's the final release, how did slip-ups like above creep in?

OBSERVATION: In the iChat window, it says "There is no camera attached to this computer." Yet the progress bar seems to be showing activity of some sort?

OBSERVATION: The Finder window named Xdrive is metal, but not entirely consistently. The metal has a bar down the right, next to the scroll bar, unlike Safari. This on its own is nothing that important, but the grow icon thing in the bottom right seems misplaced.

OBSERVATION: In the Mail screenshot, the "Working Offline" seems all wrong. Especially the "o" in working.

It just seems all wrong to me. I'm bound to end up with egg on my face, but I thought these items needed discussion.

- Jimmni :)

jessefoxperry

Jun 21, 2003, 12:18 PM

who cares about 10.3! i just got secret images of 10.6!

crassusad44

Jun 21, 2003, 12:19 PM

Originally posted by rockman2023
Eh?
What I meant was that Quicktime 6.4 still needs to be released. WHY would they skip a .x release.

What?!?!?!?!???
Version numbering on software usually goes like this... x.0 for a grand release. x.0.1 for bug fixes, x.1 for a minor update and x.5 for a big update, but that don't justify a x.0 release.

Apple went from Mac OS 8.1 to 8.5, but they didn't «skip» three x.1 updates. There is no need for Apple to release QT 6.4 before version 6.5. The 6.5 version number indicates a big update to the software. Version 6.4 would indicate a minor update.

To get back on topic...:
I surely do not hope the Finder is going to look anywhere like what's in the posted screenshot in the final version of Panther.

zigzag

Jun 21, 2003, 12:29 PM

Originally posted by AppleMatt
As I understand it, most of the 10.3 changes are under the hood. Apple's own internal tests cited boot speed, log-in time and UI responsiveness as target areas. Also Quartz Extreme should be getting an update (I REALLY hope so). Many applications/technologies are still using classic code (QuickTime being the most shocking example), all (?) of which have been rewritten in 10.3

Finally I think it is unfair to pass judgement on a new OS based on 12 screenshots!

AppleMatt

edit: I read this morning the speed improvement from 10.2 > 10.3 was greater than that seen from 10.1 > 10.2, even on the oldest hardware.

You are right it is unfair to judge the OS on 12 screenshots, I never did judge the OS. I am judging the screenshots, and I judge they are FAKE.

You are correct, 10.3 has a major performance boost, and actually, I know why :-)

Now, as for under the hood... well, people, ordinary users, don't care much for under-the-hood when they buy a new version, they have to see physical improvements... things they can take advantage of. And up to jaguar there has been a lot of both under-the-hood and over-the-hood improvements. I really believe that panther should have the most new features yet (when compared to previous releases of os x).

Those screenshots look like a user-hacked Jaguar.

jdang

Jun 21, 2003, 12:34 PM

i dont know if any of you guys noticed (or maybe i am just wrong) but the new toned down interface of aqua was also "previewed" slightly when the powermac specs were leaked. after the apple store went down the first time (it went down then came back up then went down again), if you looked at the menu bar on the top of the website it had this same toned down aqua appearance. now MAYBE i could be wrong, but i would be willing to bet quite a bit that after monday or sometime in the very near future the apple website will take on this new aqua interface. im pretty sure they already have it ready because i could bet my paycheck that the menu bar on the "sorry we are updating the apple store. please come back in an hour" page had the panther version on the menu bar.

jm.

zuggerat

Jun 21, 2003, 12:38 PM

what is all that mosaic crap all over the screen...its in the dock, the taskbar far right corner, as well as all over the safari browser including the address bar. i dont get it...maybe some other peeps can lay the smack down on this mofo

zigzag

Jun 21, 2003, 12:41 PM

Originally posted by zuggerat
what is all that mosaic crap all over the screen...its in the dock, the taskbar far right corner, as well as all over the safari browser including the address bar. i dont get it...maybe some other peeps can lay the smack down on this mofo

It is 'covering up' parts that the person did not want to show.

More proof that its fake. Can't even show any part of the iChat window? come on!

And the dock hasn't changed one bit, wee.

And the system clock is 'mosaic-ed' ? But the iCal icon shows the date, wee.

zuggerat

Jun 21, 2003, 12:44 PM

It is 'covering up' parts that the person did not want to show. More proof that its fake. Can't even show any part of the iChat window? come on!

yeah thats weird i dont think that apple would format the video conferencing to be merely a box in the middle of the screen. i think they would have some kind of metalic boarder or some sort of tab to enlarge or change the shape of the viewer

The Grimace

Jun 21, 2003, 12:45 PM

Originally posted by AppleMatt
Something I noticed...there's no "Open with >" on the contextual menu, I use that all the time :(

Probably taken from a folder contexual menu, to show the "folder actions" additions. Folders don't show the "Open with..." option.

(tig)
mod -1 redundant

richie

Jun 21, 2003, 12:47 PM

Originally posted by Jimmni

Second, I think these shots are fake, too. I hope they are for some of the reasons outlined below....

OBSERVATION: In the Activity Monitor window there are strange inconsistencies.

...

* Second, the "% Nice" uses a , to seperate the decimals, not a . like the rest of the %'s. This smacks to me of a slip-up by someone European making the fakes.

* Third, the "Threads" and "Processes" don't line up right. Unless this is a very early build, it's very sloppy.

...
OBSERVATION: About Finder is all wrong. "The Macintosh Desktop Experience"? And why "Finder version 10.3" rather than "Mac OS X (10.3)" like we'd expect? These aren't big things, obviously, but still...

You know, the more I look at these particular points, the more I think you may have a case here. Desktop Experience? Sounds kinda XP-y for Apple to actually use... and the process manager observations are spot-on. I'm torn, because Exposé sounds so cool, but there are strangeness with these shots - not least of which is the fact that people don't appear to have been C&Ded yet :(

zigzag

Jun 21, 2003, 12:50 PM

Actual panther screenshot!

zuggerat

Jun 21, 2003, 12:53 PM

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG....ITS SO ART DECO I LOVE IT!

zigzag

Jun 21, 2003, 01:05 PM

This is against Apple HIG (having multiple selectable items in one menu item):

julzmon

Jun 21, 2003, 01:16 PM

the more i look at those shots the more i think something is fishy

the big desktop capture... all the perspective is completly off.. the windows are way to small for that desktop look at the top menus..

and all those inconsistencies in the window title bar. one is smooth other striped other metal... i don't see this happening even in a beta. I also think if they got rid of the stripes on the title bar they would get rid of them on the windows them selves

just seems way to sloppy
starting to thing these are fakes

edit: what is that red blotch on the iTunes window in the big desktop capture?

rice_web

Jun 21, 2003, 01:18 PM

Originally posted by julzmon
the more i look at those shots the more i think something is fishy

the big desktop capture... all the perspective is completly off.. the windows are way to small for that desktop look at the top menus..

and all those inconsistencies in the window title bar. one is smooth other striped other metal... i don't see this happening even in a beta. I also think if they got rid of the stripes on the title bar they would get rid of them on the windows them selves

just seems way to sloppy
starting to thing these are fakes

edit: what is that red blotch on the iTunes window in the big desktop capture?

They're small because it's demonstrating Expose

bretm

Jun 21, 2003, 01:20 PM

Originally posted by Goekeli
I hope that my ol' 867QS 1.5G RAM can keep up with the new OS. I mean, I won't even think about a hardware up grade until they are 3 times as fast or 3 times the processor power as my current old beast. I will definatly let some others go first before upgrading or doing a clean wipe and install of panther. It looks really cool. Anyone know where piles might have gone?

Goe

I think a single 1.6 ghz 970 will be at least 3 times faster than your dual 867. The bus speed improvements alone might do that. MacBidoule's rumored test results showed a 1.4 single 970 as a couple times faster than a dual 1.42 at some tasks.

daveL

Jun 21, 2003, 01:21 PM

Originally posted by inkswamp
Exposé sounds great, but it doesn't look like a replacement for windowshade, nor is the ability to minimize to the dock. Maybe it's just my line of work or how I interact with the UI, but I find that I frequently used windowshade to hide the front window to peek briefly at something in another window when I didn't want to bring any other window forward. It was a great way to view another window then return to your primary window and a very efficient approach.

To look behind the current window in 9, you click the windowshade button, look, click again with no mousing around. Quick, easy, efficient. In X, minimizing windows involves hitting the minimize button, looking, then going over to the dock and bringing the window back. Too much mousing around for such a simple need. Exposé sounds great, but it doesn't look like a replacement for windowshade. MIP would be cool and would offer that functionality, but I doubt we'll see it. For whatever reason, Apple seems to have adopted a somewhat snotty attitude toward all thing 9 and only begrudgingly give back those features. Not sure why.

Anyway, I just want 10.3 to give me back text clippings that work correctly (for God's sake why can't you copy the contents of a clipping to the clipboard as in 9????) and windowshade and I will be one happy camper. I'm not kidding. I'll gladly pay the upgrade price for those things alone, if it means I don't have to install some skanky hack that will hose my system at some random point in the future.

The rest will be icing on the cake. Fingers crossed.
I use CodeTek Virtual Desktop and Unsanity's WindowShade. I think they cost me a total of $40 and both have been absolutely rock solid under every 10.2 point release. I'm from a Unix background, so I really missed the functionality of a virtual desktop when I came over to the Mac. I'm not sure Expose will change that.

Also, I think 10.3 is going to allow you to pick between a couple flavors of aqua and brushed metal, and that's why these attributes are being shown in the screen shots.

rice_web

Jun 21, 2003, 01:32 PM

Originally posted by Jimmni
OBSERVATION: In the Activity Monitor window there are strange inconsistencies.

* First there are really tacky colours. Windows type tacky colour, not beautiful Apple colours.

* Second, the "% Nice" uses a , to seperate the decimals, not a . like the rest of the %'s. This smacks to me of a slip-up by someone European making the fakes.

* Third, the "Threads" and "Processes" don't line up right. Unless this is a very early build, it's very sloppy.
* You know, it is a technical panel that most users will never even notice. If the colors are off, big freakin' woop.

* You noticed the comma as opposed to the decimal, and I can only suggest that Apple is still very early in the development of this panel, a simple mistake.

* Finally, they do match up. Just remember that unless the font is courier, fonts never line up, per se.

OBSERVATION: Yahoo Instant messenger is in the dock and on the desktop. If this is Panther, that presumably means no Yahoo support in iChat.
And that's a problem? Heck, we're still waiting on ICQ support.

OBSERVATION: In the full screen of the expose desktop, Safari is all blocked out. Why? What incriminating website could he/she be looking at?
Perhaps it was e-mail? I'd block out my e-mail if I had kept it open in the screenshot. Not that I keep anything terribly personal in my e-mail, but it's a matter of privacy.

OBSERVATION: Why are the iChat windows censored totally? Why not just block them out like the Safari window?
Maybe he had video conferencing going, and he didn't want the other person in the conversation to be seen by thousands of Mac Heads.

OBSERVATION: About Finder is all wrong. "The Macintosh Desktop Experience"? And why "Finder version 10.3" rather than "Mac OS X (10.3)" like we'd expect? These aren't big things, obviously, but still...
I do question this myself, but maybe it's an attempt to remove the new-user-unfriendly technical information. In my opinion, "The Macintosh Desktop Experience" is much better than a technical window.

OBSERVATION: No build number. Seems strange, since they'll most likely be giving out preview copies on Monday, and developers will want to know what build they're working with. If it's the final release, how did slip-ups like above creep in?
I also questioned this, but maybe they'll throw this in when they begin to seed this to developers. Who knows how old a version this user was actually using? He may have been using a Panther seed from months ago.

OBSERVATION: In the iChat window, it says "There is no camera attached to this computer." Yet the progress bar seems to be showing activity of some sort?
I've always hated video conferencing, but I hate it more when you have to type as opposed to talk. Perhaps, and quite likely, he's chatting with voice, but without video.

OBSERVATION: The Finder window named Xdrive is metal, but not entirely consistently. The metal has a bar down the right, next to the scroll bar, unlike Safari. This on its own is nothing that important, but the grow icon thing in the bottom right seems misplaced.
This window certainly does look "fat" as you describe. I personally do not see this as a short-coming. However, I do question the significant difference between "About Finder" and the Finder itself, or how about the half-aqua half-metal Finder window that can be found at the bottom of the last screenshot.

OBSERVATION: In the Mail screenshot, the "Working Offline" seems all wrong. Especially the "o" in working.
This text does seem off slightly, but Anti-Aliasing can do this, not that I don't find it a little odd.

rtdunham

Jun 21, 2003, 01:37 PM

what are the implications of the "censored" windows in the expose screen shot? do they suggest that iChat and a second app have features important enuff they could not be disclosed on the screen shots being shared with us? Or perhaps they simply had a person's image that wasn't authorized for publication? Or do they have some other less significant meaning? I haven't seen them mentioned...:confused:

Vlade

Jun 21, 2003, 01:41 PM

Originally posted by rtdunham
what are the implications of the "censored" windows in the expose screen shot? do they suggest that iChat and a second app have features important enuff they could not be disclosed on the screen shots being shared with us? Or perhaps they simply had a person's image that wasn't authorized for publication? Or do they have some other less significant meaning? I haven't seen them mentioned...:confused:

It could give the identity of the poster away, apple might be able to figure out who has those people on there friends list.

Also, do you want your name posted so millions can see, and then message you asking "WHOS UR FRIEND WHO HAS PANTHER, THX!"

backspinner

Jun 21, 2003, 01:55 PM

Originally posted by Jimmni
* First there are really tacky colours. Windows type tacky colour, not beautiful Apple colours.

OBSERVATION: Yahoo Instant messenger is in the dock and on the desktop. If this is Panther, that presumably means no Yahoo support in iChat.

These colors are the default ones for the cpu monitor in Jaguar as well. I always change them to softer ones after an install since I have the cpu monitor running in the dock.

And maybe he has yahoo messenger on his system because he is testing the new yahoo compatability in iChat?

MacFan25

Jun 21, 2003, 01:56 PM

The screenshots look nice. I really want ot see this new iChat with videoconferencing. Maybe Steve will unveil a webcam at WWDC. :)

AppleMatt

Jun 21, 2003, 01:58 PM

Originally posted by Goekeli
I hope that my ol' 867QS 1.5G RAM can keep up with the new OS. I mean, I won't even think about a hardware up grade until they are 3 times as fast or 3 times the processor power as my current old beast. I will definatly let some others go first before upgrading or doing a clean wipe and install of panther. It looks really cool.

Panther will speed up the OS X experience on EVERY machine, from the Beige G3's to the dual 1.42GHz MDD's.

You have no worries.

AppleMatt

rogueimage

Jun 21, 2003, 02:01 PM

Originally posted by Awimoway
I'm very disappointed to see no theme support in the prefs panel. If it's not there, I don't think they'll have it.
There is still an Appearance set of preferences. Themes could certainly be changed there.

jessefoxperry

Jun 21, 2003, 02:15 PM

oh man....these 1800myapple people are killing me.....call them and ask for a g5, they've got some great things to say lol....acually if u start talking to them they acually let up and start talking..........a little. this one guy i called said that he's "had his share of calls from people asking for G5s" lol! try it out yourself....its good fun

Delenn

Jun 21, 2003, 02:44 PM

Originally posted by Jimmni
OBSERVATION: About Finder is all wrong. "The Macintosh Desktop Experience"? And why "Finder version 10.3" rather than "Mac OS X (10.3)" like we'd expect? These aren't big things, obviously, but still...

- Jimmni :)

Also, in Jaguar, the About Finder box says copyright 2002, and the Panther one is 1983 to 2003. Why would they change that?

Wonder Boy

Jun 21, 2003, 02:54 PM

I love how the color labels are back. I missed those!

iAlan

Jun 21, 2003, 03:00 PM

Originally posted by Delenn
Also, in Jaguar, the About Finder box says copyright 2002, and the Panther one is 1983 to 2003. Why would they change that?

Because it is 2003? And if there are significant changes/improvements these could be concidered 'new' and are c and TM for there 2003 release.

iAlan

Jun 21, 2003, 03:03 PM

Apple making fun of the whole 'Windows Experience' thing....

daveL

Jun 21, 2003, 03:10 PM

It reports that "piles" will NOT be part of Panther. Also, iChat WILL support video conference and there WILL be an Apple-branded video camera to go along with it. This info is supposed to come from an Apple insider. Finally, Safari is expected to emerge from beta status.

tjwett

Jun 21, 2003, 03:37 PM

Thanks to AppleMatt and pellucidity for the pics. Kewl.

saint.duo

Jun 21, 2003, 03:51 PM

I'm sorry to burst your bubble. But I have neither seen nor heard ANY inidication from Apple that odd numbered releases would be free. Whoever came up with this idea is being wishful. Every major OS upgrade has been paid in the past, usually on a 9-15 month cycle (7.6, 8.0, 8.5, 9.0, X). 10.1 was an exception to this because Apple needed to get a release of X out without the bugs that the 10.0 series had.
Both 10.1 and 10.2 are/were functionally complete. They both work(ed), without any serious bugs. I only know of people upgrading because they want this or that feature, or addition, not because it "fixes some problem" they're having.
Also, Jaguar was called Jaguar with the fancy box to set it apart from 10.0 and 10.1, to attempt to separate it in the minds of users. The fact that many people would have happily paid for jag if it were dubbed 10.5, proves to me that Apple's thinking was correct. I will be surprised if Panther, or any other 10.x release is free ever again. Jaguar and Panther are feature releases. 10.1 was a serious bug fix release, but enough of a change to warrant a .x version change.

Originally posted by miradu
I'm not sure I like he user interface changes - It's doesn't have the same candy appeal anymore.

More importantly, there is no way Apple is going to be able to charge for this. Mail and iChat should be free upgrades for 10.2 owners, so that doesn't leave many features left to charge for. Let's hope Apple keeps the pattern and only charge for even releases :)

iJon

Jun 21, 2003, 03:53 PM

someone may have already posted this. i think they may be fake. if you look at the activity monitor under the nice percentage. it has a comma instead of a decimal. unless a comma is suppose to be there, which i dont see why it would.

iJon

pcp_ip

Jun 21, 2003, 04:07 PM

Originally posted by tjwett
ok, i hooked up like 20 people with the pics from the crumpled supposedly leaked G5 Powermac picture. could someone who has all the Panther screenshots PLEASE hook me up. i'm on dial-up at my my girlsfriend's and i only got a few of the pics before they went down. i really want to see the iChat pics. please send me a PM if you have them. thanks so much.

I *think* they're all here (http://www.studio2f.com/archives/000065.php#more)

rtdunham

Jun 21, 2003, 04:09 PM

daveL says Forbes "reports...there WILL be an Apple-branded video camera to go along with (iChat). This info is supposed to come from an Apple insider. Finally, Safari is expected to emerge from beta status."

here's what Forbes is reporting, direct from its website. CAPS are mine:

" RUMOR mills are buzzing about the POSSIBILITY of a Macintosh computer based on IBM's Power PC 970 chip, a 64-bit processor that would give any Mac running it a considerable performance boost. What is known is that Apple will reveal features of its latest operating-system upgrade, Mac OS X 10.3, code-named Panther. We're told by one reliable source inside Apple that one rumored feature known as piles--a method for grouping related documents--is just that, a rumor, and will not appear in the new software. However, RUMORS about new developments to Apple's iChat instant messaging software--like a videoconferencing feature and an Apple-branded Web camera to support it--may bear fruit. Apple's Web browser Safari will LIKELY emerge from beta-testing, "

so any or all of the things you refer to, dave, could happen, but the status is considerably different from "WILL". No big deal, repeating rumors on a rumor site, just need to distinguish between what's been reported as fact (I got excited momentarily by your post!) and what's reported as rumor.

peace
terry

iJon

Jun 21, 2003, 04:14 PM

Originally posted by saint.duo
I'm sorry to burst your bubble. But I have neither seen nor heard ANY inidication from Apple that odd numbered releases would be free. Whoever came up with this idea is being wishful. Every major OS upgrade has been paid in the past, usually on a 9-15 month cycle (7.6, 8.0, 8.5, 9.0, X). 10.1 was an exception to this because Apple needed to get a release of X out without the bugs that the 10.0 series had.
Both 10.1 and 10.2 are/were functionally complete. They both work(ed), without any serious bugs. I only know of people upgrading because they want this or that feature, or addition, not because it "fixes some problem" they're having.
Also, Jaguar was called Jaguar with the fancy box to set it apart from 10.0 and 10.1, to attempt to separate it in the minds of users. The fact that many people would have happily paid for jag if it were dubbed 10.5, proves to me that Apple's thinking was correct. I will be surprised if Panther, or any other 10.x release is free ever again. Jaguar and Panther are feature releases. 10.1 was a serious bug fix release, but enough of a change to warrant a .x version change.
its not wishful thinking, phil schiller said it himself that every other os would be free. now what we do not know is apple will stick to this plan. because this announcement was a while back. but bitch and argue with me all you want since youve never heard of this. many people on this site will tell you that ive defended this statement for a long time now, but we will just have to see, maybe even monday.

iJon

zigzag

Jun 21, 2003, 04:14 PM

95% fake.

8320

Jun 21, 2003, 04:45 PM

Mac OS XP ... Panther droppings.

Why can't Jobs give us a selection of themes/skins for OS X, so WE can decide what our user experience looks like? I LIKED the aqua interface, with its pulsing gumdrop OK button and pinstripes. Why does my user experience need to look like a 1979 stereo? I HATE brushed metal. I WANT the pinstripes back... they were soothing to the eyes.

Both the new alleged hardware cabinet and the new OS interface are DULL, BORING, and look too much like the lame world of Windows XP. Why does Apple need to take a way-cool interface and dull it down?

Jobs, you are losing it.

Mac user since 1988.

pgwalsh

Jun 21, 2003, 04:45 PM

fake or not fake.. fun nonetheless...

Would love to see a turbo graphics feature where you can turn off all the graphic features for you slow computer.. but that would never be a good thing in SJ's book. hehe

Yes, I do use shadowKiller..

I do like the metal look... but It reminds me of xp's metal look. I wonder if it's a theme because it also looks like some linux versions.

Hope you're all having a great weekend. Can't wait till Monday.. :D :p :D

Alexander

Jun 21, 2003, 05:06 PM

Originally posted by iJon
someone may have already posted this. i think they may be fake. if you look at the activity monitor under the nice percentage. it has a comma instead of a decimal. unless a comma is suppose to be there, which i dont see why it would.

iJon

In European countries, they switch the comma and decimal point around, i.e. 1,234.56 would be written as 1.234,56 . I'll agree that it's a little suspicious that only that one number is formatted like that, but it is pre-preview software.

ZildjianKX

Jun 21, 2003, 05:17 PM

My friend has a beta of Panther... they're not fake.

Doctor Q

Jun 21, 2003, 05:20 PM

I'm surprised that the Activity Monitor doesn't have a CPU Time column. The total time a process has accumulated is an important part of the command-line top display, and I'm sorry it's not included here.

The features shown in the screenshots might not make you think a 10.3 upgrade is worth paying for, but not all improvements are visual. For Jaguar, Jobs said there were 129 features for $129 dollars. So without knowing the full feature list and real price, it's too soon to decide whether Panther is "worth the price".

Finally, it's obvious what Microsoft will call their version of Exposé. They'll call it Expose (pronounced EX-POZE). Then they'll accuse Apple of being unpatriotic for using the French version.

AppleMatt

Jun 21, 2003, 05:20 PM

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
My friend has a beta of Panther... they're not fake.

Screenshots please :)

We're a cynical lot.

AppleMatt

jessefoxperry

Jun 21, 2003, 05:39 PM

Originally posted by ZildjianKX
My friend has a beta of Panther... they're not fake.

umm my email is jessefoxperry@yahoo.com id be glad to see some screenshots come my way....and would pay some money for a little extra........ :cool:

Alexander

Jun 21, 2003, 05:53 PM

Originally posted by Doctor Q
The features shown in the screenshots might not make you think a 10.3 upgrade is worth paying for, but not all improvements are visual. For Jaguar, Jobs said there were 129 features for $129 dollars. So without knowing the full feature list and real price, it's too soon to decide whether Panther is "worth the price".

I'd buy it for Exposé alone. I AM Let1kWindowsBloom.

Of course, I'd also buy it even if I couldn't tell the difference...

JoeRadar

Jun 21, 2003, 06:18 PM

Originally posted by Eric-C
when school finally begins and if the powerbooks aren't upgraded, I'll have to spend money on unwanted hardware.

Another approach is to pick up a used PowerBook or iBook to hold you over for the first quarter/semester, and then pick up a new machine around Christmas (and sell the twice-used PowerBook).

It might be a little more expensive (or not if the prices on the new machines drop for Xmas), but in the end you get what you want.

BaghdadBob

Jun 21, 2003, 06:51 PM

Silly little idosyncrasies aside, if these shots are fake they are very well done, imaginative, and well flushed out.

There are a lot of subtle visual tweaks (other than the milk look) that look like the work of the Apple team.

As opposed to the LAME piles "Panther" shots...

Just take a look at the full desktop and see what I mean.

They could be fake, but if they are bravo. Very well done. So much so, that I happen to believe they are real.

And for those of you saying "under the hood" improvements don't justify the upgrade without a ton of new features...uh, the Jaguar UI can be a little less snappy than desired sometimes...

Although ALL the iApps need updating. iCal needs to be exchange compatible pronto.

And hopefully AppleWorks will see some major improvements, and hopefully the rumored accounting SW will be out in some form...

Anyway, rambling........

Vonnie

Jun 21, 2003, 07:00 PM

It seems strange to me that Apple Legal would send cease and desist letters to Thinksecret and MOSR on ichat, small software updates, powermac spec images, .. Yet they don't take down panther screenshots.. Seems pretty strange to me.

iJon

Jun 21, 2003, 07:04 PM

Originally posted by Alexander
In European countries, they switch the comma and decimal point around, i.e. 1,234.56 would be written as 1.234,56 . I'll agree that it's a little suspicious that only that one number is formatted like that, but it is pre-preview software.
ah thats interesting, thanks for letting me know. yeah it does look odd but who knows, they look pretty damn good to me.

iJon

jessefoxperry

Jun 21, 2003, 07:08 PM

ok people ur gonna have to miror this FAST apple is after me.....
http://www.microplate.com/NEWOSX!.jpg

AppleMatt

Jun 21, 2003, 07:15 PM

jessefoxperry please do not spam. This is the second time I've seen this.

AppleMatt

jessefoxperry

Jun 21, 2003, 07:17 PM

im sorry, im a evil, evil man

bobindashadows

Jun 21, 2003, 07:19 PM

Originally posted by jessefoxperry
ok people ur gonna have to miror this FAST apple is after me.....

Dude... you definitely just posted that screenshot for the second time. Not cool. I'm not sure if it was because you didn't get the attention you wanted before, I thought they were funny, but please don't post anything more than once, unless it needs reiteration.

jessefoxperry

Jun 21, 2003, 07:29 PM

oh, really thats my bad because im on like 3 different forums and do'n other stuff and i forget what im doing. i wont do it again

pyrotoaster

Jun 21, 2003, 07:35 PM

Originally posted by BaghdadBob
And hopefully AppleWorks will see some major improvements, and hopefully the rumored accounting SW will be out in some form...
This is really just my angry opinion, but AppleWorks needs to be shot.

Apple just absorbed Claris to rename ClarisWorks AppleWorks, but it's still a sub-par office app. I think Keynote is evidence that Apple's got a real office suite on the horizon. Sure, it would piss off Microsoft to the point of stopping MS Office development, but if Apple can just put together decent compatibility, that'll be a moot point.

As for the pics, I love the new finder window they show. Not really because it's brushed metal (although I'm glad to see something that isn't just plain white with pinstripes), but because of that sweet new take on the navigation. That looks like the ultimate way to get through one's directories easily.

Can't wait for Monday!

BTW, while I really do hate Claris, I love Clarus (moof! to all that get the reference).

RIP

Jun 21, 2003, 08:29 PM

I'm hoping that 10.3 won't choke my overclocked 466 too bad so as to have time enjoying this version while saving for the expected G5. There is no way I won't install 10.3. I'll go insane if I don't

Originally posted by Goekeli
I hope that my ol' 867QS 1.5G RAM can keep up with the new OS. I mean, I won't even think about a hardware up grade until they are 3 times as fast or 3 times the processor power as my current old beast. I will definatly let some others go first before upgrading or doing a clean wipe and install of panther. It looks really cool. Anyone know where piles might have gone?

Goe

zigzag

Jun 21, 2003, 08:43 PM

1. Calm down everyone, Panther will run on your systems better than Jaguar ever did.

2. Those screenshots are obviously fake. They look real, because they are not doctored in photoshop (for the most part), instead they are made by hacking a regular jaguar installation.

3. Apple didn't take it down because of the above.

4. This does not feel apple-like at all, who ever did it may have fooled most people, but I am not fooled, and come monday, you will see that, indeed, these screenshots are fake.

jessefoxperry

Jun 21, 2003, 08:51 PM

if he just hacked these....hes a excellent hacker.....i still dont know what to think about these screen shots

Macco

Jun 21, 2003, 08:53 PM

I'm sorta hoping that the screenshots are fake. I want to be surprised Monday morning. Maybe this, and the PowerMac leak, is all a big conspiracy by Steve to lull us into thinking that this is all there is, and then, come WWDC, he'll pull something really crazy.
Then again, maybe I'm wrong...

BKMaggert

Jun 21, 2003, 09:06 PM

Someone said that there was nothing new in the dock, but there is!

There is now a line over the icon of the front most app. Nice little touch.

MasonMcD

Jun 21, 2003, 09:12 PM

I think that the censored pics of iChat video-conferencing windows, aside from no picture from a possible lack of camera, that it might be something along the lines of a DVD screen cap, in that when someone attempts to screen cap an iChat videoconference, a "censored" warning appears in the cap.

Just a guess, but it's in line with Apple's minimal DRM. I think it's also illegal to "record" someone without their permission in most states, and maybe a vid cap represents something like that.

blahblah123

Jun 21, 2003, 09:36 PM

Originally posted by MasonMcD
I think that the censored pics of iChat video-conferencing windows, aside from no picture from a possible lack of camera, that it might be something along the lines of a DVD screen cap, in that when someone attempts to screen cap an iChat videoconference, a "censored" warning appears in the cap.

Just a guess, but it's in line with Apple's minimal DRM. I think it's also illegal to "record" someone without their permission in most states, and maybe a vid cap represents something like that.
good point

pyrotoaster

Jun 21, 2003, 09:37 PM

Originally posted by zigzag
1. Calm down everyone, Panther will run on your systems better than Jaguar ever did.

2. Those screenshots are obviously fake. They look real, because they are not doctored in photoshop (for the most part), instead they are made by hacking a regular jaguar installation.

3. Apple didn't take it down because of the above.

4. This does not feel apple-like at all, who ever did it may have fooled most people, but I am not fooled, and come monday, you will see that, indeed, these screenshots are fake.
The screen shots are real. Period. It's not a Duality theme or anything like that. Many parts of the shown interface don't exist at all, like the new (and very sleek) finder window (the brushed metal hard drive window) (and you said it wasn't Photoshopped...).

Despite Apple Legal's reputation, they don't pull everything. The only thing they're sure to pull is leaked hardware, they aren't nearly as trigger happy with screen shots.

It looks very Apple. Sleek, with many new and old features being added (can you explain the ability to add labels? No Jaguar hack will give you a menu for that). It looks like a real step forward for OS X, and come Monday we'll get to see this new look in all its glory.

Manuel Moreno

Jun 21, 2003, 09:41 PM

My grandpa has a beta of Panther... they're not fake.

blahblah123

Jun 21, 2003, 09:43 PM

Has anyone taken a close look at folder.jpg?

The file in the background next to "Move to Trash" seems to be titled "DellOnline.doc".

Not that I necessarily even know what that could mean, if anything.

nagromme

Jun 21, 2003, 09:45 PM

Exposé sounds great, but it doesn't look like a replacement for windowshade, nor is the ability to minimize to the dock. Maybe it's just my line of work or how I interact with the UI, but I find that I frequently used windowshade to hide the front window to peek briefly at something in another window when I didn't want to bring any other window forward. It was a great way to view another window then return to your primary window and a very efficient approach.

Exactly--a very important function! But I wasn't talking about minimizing to the Dock. MIP = Minimize in Place, and THAT--if it makes it into Panther--is like windowshade only better. The window shrinks to a useful thumbnail instead of a needlessly-wide bar, but stays right where you are instead of going to the Dock. Betas of Jaguar had this. Bring it back please!!

nagromme

Jun 21, 2003, 09:52 PM

There were lots of Jaguar shots leaked. Apple didn't go after them all. And they were real.

Manuel Moreno

Jun 21, 2003, 10:01 PM

Look through Dell Online...
yeah great panthers leaks...

richie

Jun 21, 2003, 10:19 PM

Originally posted by nagromme
There were lots of Jaguar shots leaked. Apple didn't go after them all. And they were real.

The only shots I remember of Jaguar were those by Thinksecret et al. after the official demonstration of Jaguar - ie, from the public developer seed, which wouldn't be restricted in the same way. I may just be forgetting some from before that though, I just can't remember :)

rogueimage

Jun 21, 2003, 10:23 PM

Originally posted by BKMaggert
There is now a line over the icon of the front most app. Nice little touch.

In the Exposé screenshot, the frontmost application is Safari. There is no line over it. I think the line over the icon is either because it's a sloppy, non-Apple icon, or an artifact of the weird mosaic censoring.

pyrotoaster

Jun 21, 2003, 10:24 PM

Originally posted by Manuel Moreno
Look through Dell Online...
yeah great panthers leaks...
Yes. They're great leaks. And no, I'm not being sarcastic.

These are real. Period.

rogueimage

Jun 21, 2003, 10:44 PM

The "Gear Menu" in the brushed metal Finder window screenshot bothers me a little. It has the same icon used in iTunes for a smart playlist. One would think that the icon would be used for smart folders in the Finder, but the menu has no smart folder or folder action options. I'm not saying this proves the screenshots fake, just that it seems a little inconsistent, coming from a company that prides itself on a consistent user interface.

Second, Finder windows have never had menus. Yes, I know you can command-click on the window title to bring up a path menu, or add a path menu to the toolbar. I don't really consider a shortcut for navigating the file structure the same as a menu for manipulating selected files and folders. These types of menus are always at the top of the screen. This "Gear Menu" is a little too close to having "File," "Edit," etc. across the top of a window, a la M$ Windows.

pyrotoaster

Jun 21, 2003, 10:49 PM

Originally posted by rogueimage
The "Gear Menu" in the brushed metal Finder window screenshot bothers me a little. It has the same icon used in iTunes for a smart playlist. One would think that the icon would be used for smart folders in the Finder, but the menu has no smart folder or folder action options. I'm not saying this proves the screenshots fake, just that it seems a little inconsistent, coming from a company that prides itself on a consistent user interface.

Second, Finder windows have never had menus. Yes, I know you can command-click on the window title to bring up a path menu, or add a path menu to the toolbar. I don't really consider a shortcut for navigating the file structure the same as a menu for manipulating selected files and folders. These types of menus are always at the top of the screen. This "Gear Menu" is a little too close to having "File," "Edit," etc. across the top of a window, a la M$ Windows.
Apple isn't necessarily consistent between applications, though. And the "Gear" is more like an "Options" thing than a "Smart ______" thing.

If anything the "Gear Menu" proves these are real. There's no way to fake that without Photoshopping, and these weren't Photoshopped.

The menu's incredibly useful IMHO. I like the idea of sticking "Get Info" and the returned color labels right there. It's there with out being in the way.

rogueimage

Jun 21, 2003, 11:00 PM

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
If anything the "Gear Menu" proves these are real. There's no way to fake that without Photoshopping, and these weren't Photoshopped.

The menu's incredibly useful IMHO. I like the idea of sticking "Get Info" and the returned color labels right there. It's there with out being in the way.

I think they are real. It just surprised me, that's all. I use contextual menus to get to the same things in that menu, and the normal top o' the screen menus are another option. I suppose from the standpoint of more options for the user, it's a good thing, and I imagine said menu will be an option under "Customize Toolbar." If only Apple would ship a two-button mouse, this menu would always be at a user's fingertips, and an extra menu would be unnecessary. Sigh.

Edit: If I say "menu" twice in this sentence, I continue to average one use of the word "menu" per sentence. Word.

rice_web

Jun 22, 2003, 12:31 AM

Originally posted by Manuel Moreno
Look through Dell Online...
yeah great panthers leaks...

I don't know what this proved. We're dealing with a JPEG here, that was likely saved at a compression rate that allowed some loss of data. Plus, you've obviously expanded the image and increased the sharpness, thus adding artifacts.

rjstanford

Jun 22, 2003, 12:43 AM

Originally posted by rogueimage
If only Apple would ship a two-button mouse, this menu would always be at a user's fingertips, and an extra menu would be unnecessary.Not that big a deal for many systems, considering their wide availability. Ticks me off (low-impact, and less than using Windows does) whenever I'm on ye trusty powerBook though. I refuse to be one of those people who carries a mouse with me ... the whole purpose of a laptop is to be self-contained, after all.

Especially for X apps ... two button mice can emulate three button mice pretty easily (simultaneous == middle), but it gets really annoying with only one.

-Richard

scan300

Jun 22, 2003, 01:08 AM

Jaguar already has folder actions, (see my screen grab) they just aren't pre-installed. To install, open your applescript folder and double click 'script menu.menu' which installs a script menu. Obviously though, there is no contextual menu, just a main menu item.

There are things that bother me with the screenshots:
1. The folder actions menu has 'disable folder actions' but no 'enable folder actions'
2. The inconsistency of font size in the 'Activity Monitor', the missing process name at ID 799, and the process ID of 0. (Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought process IDs started at 1) and why would you use the mail icon to represent the export option?

Also, someone said that Europeans change the commas and points around. I've never seen it. The decimal system came from Europe and they put the point where everyone else put the point.

Trent Hare

Jun 22, 2003, 01:35 AM

A quick Google search provided the following...

"Decimal point or decimal sign?

One of the confusions between English and many other European languages is that English uses a decimal point, or dot, on the line to mark the numerator: (6.456). Norwegian and many other European languages use a comma: (6,456). ISO's Council has now ruled on this, which settles the matter as far as ISO documents are concerned:

In documents in the English language, a dot is often used instead of a comma. If a dot is used, it should be on the line. In accordance with an ISO Council decision, the decimal sign is a comma in all ISO documents. ISO 31-0:1992 (E), Note 17. (My stress)

On the other hand, most leading English dictionaries such as the Oxford English Dictionary or Webster's, like the calculator on your desk, make it clear that in other British and American English contexts, the decimal point is the normal decimal marker in English. This is of course why the dot is called the decimal point in these dictionaries, rather than decimal sign.

You are likely to confuse your readers if you are tempted to adopt the ISO standard for non-ISO documents in English. It would be reasonable to guess that 90% of native English readers have never heard of the Council decision in ISO 31-0 and using a comma as a decimal marker in English is probably going to be interpreted as a thousand marker. If you are quoting a unit price of NOK 6,456 per kilo, this may not result in an order as most English or American contractors will probably understand this as: six thousand four hundred and fifty six kroner a kilo.

Thousand marker

ISO 31-0 also considers the confusion of a price in an English document written with a thousand marker as it sometimes is in Norwegian. For example, NOK 145.650. Does this mean NOK 145 or NOK 145 650? (An English law court would probably decide that the price is NOK 145, so be careful, this could be a very expensive mistake.) ISO 31-0 states that such groups of digits are to be separated by a space, never by comma or point (ISO 31-0, Part 3).
A space is also used in English and Norwegian as a thousand marker. However, as I just mentioned with the price of NOK 6,456 it is also common in English to use commas to mark thousands."

holmesf

Jun 22, 2003, 01:36 AM

Originally posted by scan300
Jaguar already has folder actions, (see my screen grab) they just aren't pre-installed. To install, open your applescript folder and double click 'script menu.menu' which installs a script menu. Obviously though, there is no contextual menu, just a main menu item.

There are things that bother me with the screenshots:
1. The folder actions menu has 'disable folder actions' but no 'enable folder actions'
2. The inconsistency of font size in the 'Activity Monitor', the missing process name at ID 799, and the process ID of 0. (Correct me if I'm wrong but I thought process IDs started at 1) and why would you use the mail icon to represent the export option?

Also, someone said that Europeans change the commas and points around. I've never seen it. The decimal system came from Europe and they put the point where everyone else put the point.

The French for example use commas for decimal points. I don't see what the big deal is about this. There are plenty of countries in Europe that do this.

Manuel Moreno

Jun 22, 2003, 01:41 AM

I don't know what this proved. We're dealing with a JPEG here, that was likely saved at a compression rate that allowed some loss of data. Plus, you've obviously expanded the image and increased the sharpness, thus adding artifacts.
__________________
I'm smarter than you

aren't two folders with the names "Look trough" and "DellOnline.doc" overlayed by a contextual menu on folder.jpg?!? :eek:

If you're so smart why don't open your photoshop...

Ananna

Jun 22, 2003, 01:55 AM

I've started to think of Mac OS X as a work in progress, rather than something that is "lickable" and will forever remain so. This might bug a lot of people, and it bugs me too, sometimes. But I remember the long, slow transition from System 6 to Mac OS 9, which was basically the same user interface, but being constantly refined and updated.

Apple sometimes finds themselves in a design cul-de-sac, and sometimes finds a real user interface winner (and sometimes takes that winner and throws it out the window for no reason that I can comprehend).

Certainly Panther, in the screen shots we see here is a move away from Jaguar. Whether it is for the better or for the worse, I think is not for us to tell from these screen shots. From my understanding, Panther has a ways to go, and next week is just a sneak peek for developers. I expect a lot of refinement to take place between Monday and September.

It is interesting to watch these snapshots in the development process, though. I'm interested in seeing how much of this makes its way into the Golden Master of Panther and how much is yet to be seen.

BaghdadBob

Jun 22, 2003, 02:01 AM

Originally posted by Manuel Moreno
aren't two folders with the names "Look trough" and "DellOnline.doc" overlayed by a contextual menu on folder.jpg?!? :eek:

If you're so smart why don't open your photoshop...
Yeah, I think you may have something here....are we being had?

How will we find the answer...until Monday?!?

Time to spend countless hours investigating it to pass the time ;)

Seriously, that is a little bit disturbing though.

Doctor Q

Jun 22, 2003, 02:08 AM

Originally posted by holmesf
The French for example use commas for decimal points. I don't see what the big deal is about this. There are plenty of countries in Europe that do this. It's not a big deal that there are two styles. It's a potential big deal that the single comma-instead-of-period separator in the column of numbers in the Panther screenshot could be evidence that it isn't a real screenshot (because one would presume that a given Mac system would be set one way or the other, so all numbers should be one style or all number should be the other style). Of course, the comma could also be evidence of a bug in the new Activity Monitor.

iAlan

Jun 22, 2003, 03:16 AM

Regarding 'Themes' I am guessing there will be at least two...a toned down more whitish-aqua like theme (for those of us with the LCD iMacs and eMacs and a brushed metal-ish theme for those of us who will be buying the new metal-ish G5's being released soon...

billyboy

Jun 22, 2003, 04:07 AM

The Folder dialogue boxes with repeats of the functions in the pop out box aren't very Mac at all.

Monday's demo will be spot on and genuine.

scan300

Jun 22, 2003, 05:55 AM

In the screenshot of the Activity viewer:
Does anyone know what Process ID 0: kernel_task is? I'm only aware that the first process is always PID 1: /sbin/init

The example of the finder shows a find window with home as the default search destination, even though the finder is showing the root folder.

The list of volumes in this new fangled finder shows the icon of a disk image file amongst the list of volumes. Not a mounted disk image. Does that mean that a file can be a volume?

The DVD player controls have no 'disclose widget' to open the extra controls drawer.

The iChat video preference panel can be maximized but not minimised. It can be resized but there is no window resizing handle. Do they plan to have video conferencing available only while you are adjusting your preferences? Will it not be possible to adjust the microphone gain of the device; it seems to show audio input monitoring, but no input adjustment. (Feedback city).

Exposé preference panel has a maximise button. Do they mean that this preference panel will be the first and only resizable preference panel?

What happened to colorsync, ink, login items. Where will all the other internet config items go now that .Mac has replaced the internet preference pane.

Is Apple trying to confuse us, is this a very sloppy early build or is it more likely a fake?

Arcady

Jun 22, 2003, 06:10 AM

Originally posted by rockman2023
Eh?
What I meant was that Quicktime 6.4 still needs to be released. WHY would they skip a .x release.

Then where are OS 8.7, 8.8 and 8.9? Or 9.3-9.9? You don't have to use every number. Apple went from 7.1 to 7.5, and they went from 6.0.8 to 7.0. So there doesn't have to be a QuickTime 6.4.

Jimmni

Jun 22, 2003, 07:35 AM

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
The screen shots are real. Period.

What makes everyone so sure they're real? MacRumors seems sure, a lot of you guys seem sure... with so many points to quibble, why are people so adamant that they're real? What do you people know that we don't?

- Jimmni :)

RIP

Jun 22, 2003, 10:49 AM

Originally posted by Manuel Moreno
aren't two folders with the names "Look trough" and "DellOnline.doc" overlayed by a contextual menu on folder.jpg?!? :eek:

If you're so smart why don't open your photoshop...

I used COMMAND-OPTION + and zoomed in on it having ZOOM turned on in Universal Access. I can see the same thing as you however I don't understand your point. Are you implying that the person who provided these screenshots is a DELL employee?

Doctor Q

Jun 22, 2003, 10:54 AM

Originally posted by scan300
In the screenshot of the Activity viewer:
Does anyone know what Process ID 0: kernel_task is? I'm only aware that the first process is always PID 1: /sbin/initThat's correct. The first process is init, pid 1. I suspect that kernel_task is a catch-all of some kind, combining all threads of a certain type. For example, it could represent all of the zombie processes (those that have lost their parent process). To find out, someone with the software could select kenel_task, click the Quit Process icon, and see what part of the system fails!

pyrotoaster

Jun 22, 2003, 11:26 AM

Originally posted by Manuel Moreno
aren't two folders with the names "Look trough" and "DellOnline.doc" overlayed by a contextual menu on folder.jpg?!? :eek:

If you're so smart why don't open your photoshop...
I've looked at your overly pixelated and sharpened image, and I've used Photoshop to see a more clear image (your magnification was way too high, that could've said "Joe's Crab Shack") by using the burn tool to basically burn off the menu. From what I see doing that, it says "DellOnline.doc".

Last time I checked, Dell didn't have a bunch of Macs that they could use to fake some Panther screen shots in a wild conspiracy (oooh! It's those evil interns!). And, last time I checked, Dell sold Printers, handhelds, and iPods. For all we know, this is some guy who bought an iPod from Dell (they occassionally have them on sale). Might I point out that we don't have the slightest idea what that document says. For all we know, it's a letter he's writing to Dell telling them about how much he hates them (I'm just considering all the possibilities).

Also, I see the folder titled "Look Through" (It's not "trough", it's "through"), and I don't understand what your problem is what that folder. It's probably a folder of documents that he needs to look through (whoa! crazy idea!).

Panther

Jun 22, 2003, 12:07 PM

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
Last time I checked, Dell didn't have a bunch of Macs that they could use to fake some Panther screen shots in a wild conspiracy (oooh! It's those evil interns!)Er... I actually work in Dell Online (the team the manages the website). Apart from me, there's only one other Mac-head in the whole group of 300 or so (as far as I'm aware)... and I'm pretty sure he didn't post them... so I don't think it came from Dell...

Besides, if anyone thinks that Dell's product folks cares about the Mac enough to try to fake something like this, then you probably saw The Recruit and think they have a team that does R&D into cryptography as well (and we all laughed when Al Pacino talked about how "... in a few years you'll be earning $200K" :p )

AppleMatt

Jun 22, 2003, 12:24 PM

Doctor Q

Jun 22, 2003, 12:37 PM

Originally posted by Panther
Er... I actually work in Dell Online (the team the manages the website). Apart from me, there's only one other Mac-head in the whole group of 300 or so (as far as I'm aware)...So we have two Dell suspects, Panther and the "other Mac-head".and I'm pretty sure he didn't post them...That eliminates one of the two suspects. Sounds like you just confessed, Panther! ;)

Panther

Jun 22, 2003, 12:53 PM

Originally posted by Doctor Q
So we have two Dell suspects, Panther and the "other Mac-head".That eliminates one of the two suspects. Sounds like you just confessed, Panther! ;) Doh! Well, I'll be there tomorrow along with most of the folks here, I guess... Once I get my hands on Panther, I'd be happy to post some screenshots... I just wish I had it now I so I could have posted these :D

shadowfax

Jun 22, 2003, 01:59 PM

Originally posted by Panther
Besides, if anyone thinks that Dell's product folks cares about the Mac enough to try to fake something like this, then you probably saw The Recruit and think they have a team that does R&D into cryptography as well (and we all laughed when Al Pacino talked about how "... in a few years you'll be earning $200K" :p ) dell doesn't do any R&D at all, do they, unless you count box design, and i would bet they may even contract that out.

jessefoxperry

Jun 22, 2003, 03:25 PM

i dont know if anyone else has already addressed this, so feel free to make fun of me if they have. in the desktop screenshot of panther.....in the lower left hand corner how is the clock open but its not in the dock? makes no since. im getting a headache

Panther

Jun 22, 2003, 04:22 PM

Originally posted by Shadowfax
dell doesn't do any R&D at all, do they, unless you count box design, and i would bet they may even contract that out. There is some... but mostly its in the area of optimizing the chassis design, or coming up with funky ways to jig with the motherboard to get the form factor the marketing folks are looking for.

They leave it to IBM and the other manufacturers to do the R&D heavy lifting (and spending). Part of the "power of the direct model" :p

shadowfax

Jun 22, 2003, 04:32 PM

Originally posted by Panther
There is some... but mostly its in the area of optimizing the chassis design, or coming up with funky ways to jig with the motherboard to get the form factor the marketing folks are looking for. Dell doesn't take anything from IBM that i know of. not even hard drives anymore, i think they use fujitsu and maxtor now. but Intel is heavy into R&D and Dell is exclusively with them on procs.

i got that dell R&D spot on though eh ;)

Panther

Jun 22, 2003, 04:48 PM

Originally posted by Shadowfax
Dell doesn't take anything from IBM that i know of. not even hard drives anymore, i think they use fujitsu and maxtor now. but Intel is heavy into R&D and Dell is exclusively with them on procs.

i got that dell R&D spot on though eh ;) Its not that we take products from IBM... Where it gets interesting is that these companies will patent ideas their engineers have, then use the patents like trading cards to avoid having to pay licensing fees... So I guess if you boil it down, you could say Dell does just enough R&D to avoid paying anybody for their technology.

With some of the stuff Apple is putting into these new PowerMacs (allegedly), such as HyperChannel and PCI-X, I wouldn't be surprised if the other vendors didn't cross-license some of the innovations Apple made along the way there too. What goes around comes around.