Samsung Begins Production Of 16Gb NAND Flash Memory

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Samsung has announced that they are beginning volume production of higher-density flash memory (http://www.samsung.com/PressCenter/PressRelease/PressRelease.asp?seq=20070429_0000341776).

Samsung claims to be the first to accomplish the feat of mass-producing 16 gigabit NAND flash memory, which is being manufactured at 51 nm, down from 60 nm with previous 8 gigabit technology.

The new 16Gb chip which has a multi-level cell (MLC) structure can facilitate capacity expansion by offering 16 gigabytes (GBs) of memory in a single memory card. Furthermore, by applying the new process technology, Samsung has accelerated the chip’s read and write speeds by approximately 80 percent over current MLC data processing speeds.

Apple currently uses flash memory in many of its products, including the iPod Nano, iPod Shuffle, and the upcoming iPhone. Rumors have been circulating that Apple will adopt Intel's flash caching technology (featured in the Santa Rosa platform (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/25/next-generation-intel-platform-santa-rosa-tracking-for-may/)) in its future MacBook lineups. Some analysts have even gone so far as to claim that Apple may introduce a totally flash-based laptop (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/03/08/flash-based-apple-laptops-again/).

[Jarooda]

Now that 8GB black nano seems small

[TheNightPhoenix]

Two 16gb chips and thats a real nice iPod video.

[psychofreak]

And the move to NAND takes one more step :)

[Spock]

Two 16gb chips and thats a real nice iPod video.

But how much will those things cost? Will it be a 32GB $600 iPod video?

[Belly-laughs]

Now that 8GB black nano seems small

The 8GB iPhone seems smaller… Not to mention the 4GB.

[macsforme]

The article mentions both gigabits and gigabytes... which are we referring to, or are we talking capacity vs. access speed?

[Tinlad]

Two 16gb chips and thats a real nice iPod video.
These are 16 gigabit chips, not 16 gigabyte chips. Two 16Gb chips is only 4GB.

[Eidorian]

16 Gigabits = 2 Gigabytes

[wakerider017]

These are 16 gigabit chips, not 16 gigabyte chips. Two 16Gb chips is only 4GB.

Exactly.

The Gigabits should be bolded in the original post with a footnote at the bottom.

8 Bits = 1 Byte

so

8 Gigabits = 1 Gigabyte

[Clive At Five]

The new 16Gb chip which has a multi-level cell (MLC) structure can facilitate capacity expansion by offering 16 gigabytes (GBs) of memory in a single memory card. Furthermore, by applying the new process technology, Samsung has accelerated the chip’s read and write speeds by approximately 80 percent over current MLC data processing speeds.


Wow. That's the part that impresses me. 80% speed increase?

Zoom Zoom.

-Clive

[nutthick]

So which is it, gigabit or gigabyte, there's a big difference?

[Thanatoast]

:sigh:

Guess no super-secret double-sized iPhones this June, then. Not enough time to manufacture 'em.

:(

[WildCowboy]

They're talking about the individual memory chips that go into flash devices/cards. Current cards use 8 Gbit chips, and they're moving to a denser 16Gbit chip. They stack up a bunch of these to make flash cards.

For instance, a current 8GB card uses two 4GB stacks of four 8Gbit (1GB) chips. With these new, denser chips, they can fit twice storage as much into the same space.

[hatcher002]

http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/common/product_list.aspx?family_cd=NFL0207
64 gig is in Mass Production status :) :apple: :apple:

[sushi]

It ceases to amaze me why someone would vote negative on this?

Anyhow, greater capacities plus much faster access = good news!

[rdowns]

From the article, emphasis mine.

The new 16Gb chip which has a multi-level cell (MLC) structure can facilitate capacity expansion by offering 16 gigabytes (GBs) of memory in a single memory card. Furthermore, by applying the new process technology, Samsung has accelerated the chip’s read and write speeds by approximately 80 percent over current MLC data processing speeds.

[MacFly123]

Yes it is talking about speed, but what about this part?

"can facilitate capacity expansion by offering 16 gigabytes (GBs) of memory in a single memory card."

Is that not saying they will make 16GB cards?

[WildCowboy]

http://www.samsung.com/Products/Semiconductor/common/product_list.aspx?family_cd=NFL0207
64 gig is in Mass Production status :) :apple: :apple:

That's 64 gigabits, or 8 gigabytes.

"can facilitate capacity expansion by offering 16 gigabytes (GBs) of memory in a single memory card."

Is that not saying they will make 16GB cards?

Yes, using the new 16Gbit chips (eight of them).

[SiliconAddict]

Stack 5-6 of these together and I have no problems going all flash. :p

[hatcher002]

its 8, 8 gig stacks on a single chip

That's 64 gigabits, or 8 gigabytes.



Yes, using the new 16Gbit chips (eight of them).

[WildCowboy]

its 8, 8 gig stacks on a single chip

It's a matter of semantics/nomenclature, but the chips are currently 8 Gbit, soon to be moving to this new 16 Gbit level. That's the max density currently available. Anything larger than that is simply stacks of chips, not a single chip.

[jbernie]

Yes it is talking about speed, but what about this part?

"can facilitate capacity expansion by offering 16 gigabytes (GBs) of memory in a single memory card."

Is that not saying they will make 16GB cards?

It says they have the potential.... we have the potential to make anything we want, the question is when they can do it at a cost that makes it appealing to the companies to put it in devices.

Given how cheap very large hard drives are these days I wouldn't necessarily expect an all flash laptop etc just yet, maybe they could include flash somehow to increase boot speed or similar. But even on high end models you would be paying crazy $$ for a reasonable amount of space which would be a fraction of what would be offered by other companies for the same price.

There are definately lots of benefit to going to flash, but until all the pros outweight the cost, we won't make that jump.

[bloodycape]

I have read and seen pics of Samsung Laptops from Japan/Korea(not sure which show it was), that had one 32gig flash drive(16gb*2chips or so I read) and has been on sale for something like 10 or so months now in Asia. There is also the Sony UX series which use to be 16gb flash and was updated to 32gbs a while back. We can only hope to see that on our MB and MBP(maybe 3*32?).

[Analog Kid]

Funny, I thought these had been shipping for a while now... So the Nano's have 2 and 4 chips in them?

The article mentions both gigabits and gigabytes... which are we referring to, or are we talking capacity vs. access speed?

Little b= bits, big B= bytes.

[Analog Kid]

For those who are tracking these things, there's a Dell Latitude with a Flash drive option. The 32GB Flash drive is $620 more than the 80GB magnetic.

[twoodcc]

maybe they'll upgrade the 8GB iPhone to 16GB......for free?;)

[emotion]

maybe they'll upgrade the 8GB iPhone to 16GB.

At this stage I think we're looking at bigger iPods and a bigger capacity iphone rather than laptops.

[One Bad Duck]

It says they have the potential.... we have the potential to make anything we want, the question is when they can do it at a cost that makes it appealing to the companies to put it in devices.

Well if anyone has the buying power to demand a subsidised price for these things its Apple.

[4np]

That sounds like Robson Caching will be more likely in the next gen (Santa Rosa) MacBook Pro's :)

[PlaceofDis]

imo, they'd have the highest probability of being used in upgraded/updated Nanos than anything else.

[gnasher729]

Two 16gb chips and thats a real nice iPod video.

Not really. Two 16Gb chips and you have a real nice 4 GB iPod. The article explicitly says "gigabit". Eight of those can be combined to produce a 16 GByte card.

[dernhelm]

Any word on the expected cost differential between the current 8GB cards and these just announced 16GB cards? Can Apple use more than one NAND card in an iPhone?

And just so we are clear, the fact that each chip is 16Gb (gigabit) and that it takes 8 of then to produce a 16GB (gigabyte) card is not really all that interesting. No one buys individual NAND chips anyway. What is interesting is the fact that new high-end NAND cards will have twice the capacity and perform 80% better.

Not that anyone expected the capacity to shrink or the performance to decrease...
:D

[guzhogi]

Little b= bits, big B= bytes.

In these articles, I'm never quite sure whether they meant to make the b lower case or not. I saw some people in this thread put GB as gb so you never can really know for sure. I'm well aware that 8 b = 1 B, but some people don't know that, or at least don't take the time to press the Shift button.

[andiwm2003]

....................... I'm well aware that 8 b = 1 B, but some people don't know that, .............................

you"re kidding! come on, everybody knows that. some people just don"t use capital letters. but it"s clear from the context what they are talking about.

[guzhogi]

you"re kidding! come on, everybody knows that. some people just don"t use capital letters. but it"s clear from the context what they are talking about.

You may know that, but I remember seeing a few posts in other threads saying they didn't know. Plus, ask the average person on the street and they wouldn't know the difference between GB and Gb. While I admit many people don't use the shift key in this forum, and it's clear what they mean by the context, assuming that's the case w/ every is just stupid and arrogant.

I don't mean to be rude, but people on this forum need to realize that not everyone is just like you and knows everything you do.

[johnee]

hmm, is 2GB a lot for an L3? I guess not, however if this memory is to be used for the SR platform, it's likely only a percentage of that would be used for dynamic allocation, and the rest would might used a byte/word/cacheline at a time as the used portions degrades over time from all the read/write cycles.

[Detlev_73]

Apple, may I please have a 16 gigabyte iPod Nano? Pretty please, with sugar and a cherry on top? :o

[andiwm2003]

..................................
I don't mean to be rude:eek: , but people on this forum need to realize that not everyone is just like you and knows everything you do.

after rereading this thread i agree it is ambiguos.
okay, being one of the people who almost never use the upper case:o i'll try to use it in the future for units like b and B.

[JimmyTJ]

Given how cheap very large hard drives are these days I wouldn't necessarily expect an all flash laptop etc just yet, maybe they could include flash somehow to increase boot speed or similar.

I have to wonder if we might not be ready to make the jump to flash now. My work laptop (a WinTel machine) is setup so that all documents are saved to the network rather than the harddrive. Even when working remotely, I have to connect to these servers to perform any work. For us, the hardrives are only needed to store software.

With all the issues around private data being obtained through stolen laptops, more companies may move to this same setup and if they do, flash drives would make a lot of sense. Heck, offering users a super slim, lightweight laptop that has a longer battery life, may be enough to get users to want such a setup, - that is storing all their content on the server rather than locally.

[guzhogi]

after rereading this thread i agree it is ambiguos.
okay, being one of the people who almost never use the upper case:o i'll try to use it in the future for units like b and B.

Thanks. It just really frustrates me reading posts that rip people or ideas just b/c they're different. As I said, there are so many people on this forum and other websites that think everyone is just like them: same opinions, know the same things, use the same things in the same ways. Yet when something comes in that is different comes a long, they're like "Why does anyone need this feature?" or "How could anyone live without this feature?" or "Why the ^%$^ do you think that? Everyone uses it this way!" It really p!$$es me off. Now if the new thing changes everything just for the sake of change or some other stupid reason or condoning violent behavior or something like that, I could understand the bitterness Criticizing someone/something just because it's easier for them to do it differently is just BS.

[guzhogi]

I have to wonder if we might not be ready to make the jump to flash now. My work laptop (a WinTel machine) is setup so that all documents are saved to the network rather than the harddrive. Even when working remotely, I have to connect to these servers to perform any work. For us, the hardrives are only needed to store software.

My job is the same way. I work @ an elementary school where all staff and all students have their own network account. On the hard drives themselves is just the OS and software. While it's possible to boot from the server using Netboot, we just don't have the resources to do that for over 100 computers. Right now, we have 1 server doing DHCP, plus storing all the accounts. So when a class of 22 kids comes in, it takes a while. Plus, we use a wireless network for our laptops and it's god awful slow in some places. Sometimes, it takes 20+ minutes just to log in, just in time to quit, log out and move on to the next activity. Unfortunately, we don't have the money to upgrade to a better network and more servers.

[Analog Kid]

I have to wonder if we might not be ready to make the jump to flash now. My work laptop (a WinTel machine) is setup so that all documents are saved to the network rather than the harddrive. Even when working remotely, I have to connect to these servers to perform any work. For us, the hardrives are only needed to store software.

With all the issues around private data being obtained through stolen laptops, more companies may move to this same setup and if they do, flash drives would make a lot of sense. Heck, offering users a super slim, lightweight laptop that has a longer battery life, may be enough to get users to want such a setup, - that is storing all their content on the server rather than locally.
As I mentioned above-- Dell offers a 32GB Flash drive for $620 more than a 80GB magnetic drive. I think that means we're not ready.

I guess my question here is why a Flash drive would give you any benefit? If you've got to be connected to the network, then power and speed really aren't concerns right?

[guzhogi]

I guess my question here is why a Flash drive would give you any benefit? If you've got to be connected to the network, then power and speed really aren't concerns right?

If you're using laptops, power is an issue. The school I work @ has over 50 iBooks for student use. Power is an issue in this case b/c it could mean the difference between using them for 5 minutes and 20 minutes or something. Speed isn't an issue w/ hard drives vs. flash b/c all our student accounts are on a central server, not the hard drive.

[Analog Kid]

If you're using laptops, power is an issue. The school I work @ has over 50 iBooks for student use. Power is an issue in this case b/c it could mean the difference between using them for 5 minutes and 20 minutes or something. Speed isn't an issue w/ hard drives vs. flash b/c all our student accounts are on a central server, not the hard drive.
Not necessarily... Many people use laptops to move from one desktop location to another. I would have figured that if you had network connectivity then you had a power outlet. Sounds like that's not the case for your situation though...

[Jetson]

Solid state memory is a great technology, but it seems to still be an immature one.

At this point the consumer needs much more storage capacity than even the 80GB provided by Apple's largest iPod. I could easily use 500GB for all the video and music and text I'd like to have available. An hour long video consumes up to 500MB. It doesn't take long to gobble up an entire iPod.

Nand memory promises to be wonderful as far as extending battery life is concerned. Add the fact that it's relatively impervious to physical shock (no more crashed hard drives) makes it even more attractive. But it still has a way to go before providing the kind of massive storage that high end consumers will be demanding in the near future.

[Dustman]

Solid state memory is a great technology, but it seems to still be an immature one.

At this point the consumer needs much more storage capacity than even the 80GB provided by Apple's largest iPod. I could easily use 500GB for all the video and music and text I'd like to have available. An hour long video consumes up to 500MB. It doesn't take long to gobble up an entire iPod.

Nand memory promises to be wonderful as far as extending battery life is concerned. Add the fact that it's relatively impervious to physical shock (no more crashed hard drives) makes it even more attractive. But it still has a way to go before providing the kind of massive storage that high end consumers will be demanding in the near future.

Not only that, but isnt it immature in the sence that it can only be written/read a cetrain amount of times before becoming unreliable? i mean i know hds die, but isnt flash more vulnerable?

[dominicansrul93]

Wouldnt it make sense to install OS on flash drive to improve boot speeds and have a big hard drive for apps and media?

[j26]

Wouldnt it make sense to install OS on flash drive to improve boot speeds and have a big hard drive for apps and media?

Or a decent sized flash drive for OS and apps and an iPod hd for media and files?

[Konradx]

Anyone think Apple will use flash for faster booting in their laptops & iMacs kinda like vista for fast booting, and quicker load times?

[MrCrowbar]

Anyone think Apple will use flash for faster booting in their laptops & iMacs kinda like vista for fast booting, and quicker load times?

It's highly probable Apple computers (i.e. Macs) will use flash cashing. Maybe not for booting, because you don't really reboot a Mac as often as a windows system, but more as a cache between the RAM and the hard drive. Safe Sleep on my Macbook takes a few seconds, because the RAM content (2GB in my case) has to go on the hard drive. It's already fairly fast, but with Flash Memory, it could be even faster.

Also the swap files (when your RAM is full but your applications need more memory, the hard drive is used as RAM too, but a very slow one) could easily be put on flash Memory. That would give you a tremendous speed boost when multitasking, kinda like having loads of RAM. 2GB of RAM plus 4 GB of Flash Memory would be affordable I think.

Some Hardware Manufactures already have hybrid hard drives that have the flash memory built in.

[Tedio]

I am in heaven. A hard drive with no moving parts. Not that I drop my laptop. I am just thinking of the instantaneous start up and reducing the damage when dropped.