Microsoft Silverlight Supports Mac

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

A Channelweb article (http://www.crn.com/software/199202806;jsessionid=AWYF3QS1QPVBUQSNDLPSKH0CJUNN2JVN) describes a new product from Microsoft called Silverlight which is a new web browser client for "advanced, browser-based video functionality."

Silverlight is said to be going head-to-head against Adobe's Flash, and is said to offer advanced functionality.

Netflix plans to adopt Silverlight as the foundation for its instant-viewing feature; a demo showed off high-quality streaming video overlaid with DVD-like menus and controls. A preview of forthcoming on-demand video functionality from MLB.com had attendees clamoring for the developing new features to hurry up and get finished.

As impressive as the demos were, the most remarkable aspect of the demo was Microsoft's commitment to make the platform "open" and "interoperable".

While Microsoft is famed for its halfhearted or nonexistant support for running its software on rival platforms, the company vows Silverlight will be different: Version one is slated to run natively in Safari and Firefox as well as Internet Explorer (both version 6 and 7), and Opera support is in the works.

The demo stage reportedly had a number of Macs with a large portion of the demo devoted to their usage. Unfortunately, authoring support is only available on the Windows platform.

A beta version (http://www.microsoft.com/silverlight/default01.aspx) is available now.

[stoid]

The demo stage reportedly had a number of Macs with a large portion of the demo devoted to their usage. Unfortunately, authoring support is only available on the Windows platform.

And there's the kicker... I wonder what the chances are of there ever being a compareable Mac authoring package. :rolleyes:

Looks like Microsoft is trying to muscle it's way into the creative market by once again leveraging it's OS market share.

[Roads0]

Hopefully this will translate into Macs being able to use Netflix's Watch Now feature.

[jholzner]

And there's the kicker... I wonder what the chances are of there ever being a compareable Mac authoring package. :rolleyes:

Looks like Microsoft is trying to muscle it's way into the creative market by once again leveraging it's OS market share.


edit: First post worth reading :rolleyes:

The real question is...how long until they abandon the Mac client like with WMP. My vote is for Adobe and their Flash player. They have no OS agenda like MS.

[fastred]

This needs to be killed early....

Its just another MS attempt to kill off rival standards - be it Flash, GoogleVideo, YouTube, Quicktime etc etc.

Avoid like the plague, or we will all suffer later....

[x86isslow]

Hopefully this will translate into Macs being able to use Netflix's Watch Now feature.

I was seriously about to buy Parallels just for the Netflix thing. If this really happens, I won't ever need Windows.

[combatcolin]

I think i'll stick to Flash.

Microsoft have enough products in m home, don't need any more.

[Max Payne]

I hope Microsoft lose lots of money in this. :mad:

[longofest]

This needs to be killed early....

Its just another MS attempt to kill off rival standards - be it Flash, GoogleVideo, YouTube, Quicktime etc etc.

Avoid like the plague, or we will all suffer later....

Flash doesn't really have any real competition out there, so I wouldn't go on such an extreme and call for an immediate boycott. In the end, SOME competition is most often good for the consumer as it drives companies to make their products better.

[davidjearly]

Isn't this screenshot from the demo video rather like the iPhone....:eek: :p

http://www.microsoft.com/silverlight/

David

[plinden]

There are a lot of websites delivering WMV content out there that don't work at all on Macs - like the Netflix player (due to use of ActiveX for player control). Anything that works cross platform, no matter who produces it, is welcome to me.

I put the wpf/e beta (aka silverlight) on my Mac several weeks ago, and it works just as well as in Windows. The team has promised Linux support later.

As for the development tools - you don't need MS's tools. Silverlight is based on XAML and javascript so you can use any text editor to create content, albeit with a lot of trouble. If this takes off, there will be third party OSS projects to create such tools.

By the way, Flash isn't a "standard", any more than Windows is (i.e. it's a de facto standard). It's proprietary. You have to pay Adobe for the Flash development tools.

[adrianm]

and where's the rumour part?

[MLeepson]

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/1866/woopsgi1.png

In true MS fashion.

I'm never leaving my Flash, now.

[donlphi]

This needs to be killed early....

Its just another MS attempt to kill off rival standards - be it Flash, GoogleVideo, YouTube, Quicktime etc etc.

Avoid like the plague, or we will all suffer later....

I find it hard to believe that people are really looking for new standards. The only nice thing would be that MAYBE adobe will lower it's prices.

I really don't want to download yet ANOTHER player for my browser.

Rather than see APPLE create their own platform for web animation, they should create a program similar to iWEB or add to iWEB allowing people to use templates to create advanced FLASH files without needing to know how to edit the script.

Drag and Drop, but still supporting FLASH and it's "mission"

I know these programs already exist, but they aren't that well known. There is room for growth in that market and room for the "APPLE TOUCH".

[KingofAwesome]

There are a lot of websites delivering WMV content out there that don't work at all on Macs - like the Netflix player (due to use of ActiveX for player control). Anything that works cross platform, no matter who produces it, is welcome to me.

I put the wpf/e beta (aka silverlight) on my Mac several weeks ago, and it works just as well as in Windows. The team has promised Linux support later.

As for the development tools - you don't need MS's tools. Silverlight is based on XAML and javascript so you can use any text editor to create content, albeit with a lot of trouble. If this takes off, there will be third party OSS projects to create such tools.

By the way, Flash isn't a "standard", any more than Windows is (i.e. it's a de facto standard). It's proprietary. You have to pay Adobe for the Flash development tools.

I haven't had any trouble in recent memory viewing WMV files on my mac, do you have Flip4Mac?

[applekid]

Great. More web standards. :rolleyes:

I will applaud Microsoft on keeping it open interoperable though.

[marco114]

I just watched in their showcase the Die Hard trailer and then on Apple's site. Apple's quicktime video is SOOOO MUCH cleaner.

Microsoft's version:
http://www.silverlight.net/fox/

http://www.apple.com/trailers/fox/livefreeordiehard/t1_large.html

Sorry M$, you need to do better.

http://www.statajax.com/video.jpg

For fair comparison, even the "Medium" quality quicktime is better/crisper

http://www.statajax.com/medium.jpg

[BRLawyer]

No thanks, MS won't have my bacon. I will never download a MS software that phones home...period.

[plinden]

I haven't had any trouble in recent memory viewing WMV files on my mac, do you have Flip4Mac?

It's not the content, it's what these websites use to deliver the content - take a look at Netflix's "Watch Now" or AT&T's Broadband TV. An ordinary WMV will display fine with Flip4Mac, but if the player is controlled via ActiveX, there's no way you are going to be able view anything without IE on Windows.

[KingofAwesome]

Well, so far I've got a bad impression of it. In the download instructions, step two is to leave that page for another page and press the download button. Why are you making users browse away from the instructions so soon, Microsoft?

The big show-stopper for me came after running the installation package. There's no option to just install for this user, and since this is a work computer I don't have admin rights. Why can't I install it just under my own account?

[dornoforpyros]

*Yawn*

Whatever happened to the photoshop "rival" M$ released a year or two ago?

All I really remember of it was M$ released a beta and the design community had a good chuckle and got back to work.

[The General]

It seems to work okay ... but what is the benefit of this over flash?

Flash supports all three operating systems and works okay.

This supports two operating system and works okay.

I don't get it?

[KingofAwesome]

It's not the content, it's what these websites use to deliver the content - take a look at Netflix's "Watch Now" or AT&T's Broadband TV. An ordinary WMV will display fine with Flip4Mac, but if the player is controlled via ActiveX, there's no way you are going to be able view anything without IE on Windows.

Ok, that's different. I thought you were saying you couldn't view any video that used the WMV codec.

I haven't been able to use ActiveX sites in quite some time anyway because for the last few years I used PC's, I was running Firefox and Mozilla. Hey, if they don't want my web traffic, I can click on the ads on other websites instead. :)

[Peace]

It seems to work okay ... but what is the benefit of this over flash?

Flash supports all three operating systems and works okay.

This supports two operating system and works okay.

I don't get it?

It's just Microsoft muscling it's way into yet another try at controlling the intertubes.

[Analog Kid]

Ah yes, the ol' "We're really going to play nice this time" ploy... This is just going to go the way of all their other cross platform initiatives: WMP, IE, Windows NT, VPC, MAPI, PlaysForSure... I'm sure ya'll can add to that list.

Flash doesn't really have any real competition out there, so I wouldn't go on such an extreme and call for an immediate boycott. In the end, SOME competition is most often good for the consumer as it drives companies to make their products better.
I agree, but this isn't competition-- this is a trap. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me a few dozen times and I start to notice the pattern...

[RichP]

MS is scared...of Google. They are trying desperately to regain their footing in a market that is changing to more open standards and OS independence.

Hell, all current mac hardware is essentially OS independent, and I bet in Leopard we see some fancy Bootcamp integration that make the lines between windoze and OSX even more blurred (in a good way)

[ph0rce]

Looks to me like everyone in that video is using a Multi-touch wall (http://www.apple.com/iphone/technology/)... where did that come from :cool:

[Kosmonaut]

I sure hope that whatever happens with Silverlight and MLB.tv won't affect my ability to display streaming games on my TV. Right now, the WMP file launches externally in Quicktime, which I can easily display full screen on my TV. If it gets trapped in some weird Flash-like monster, I may lose control over how big the picture can be, or the controls, or it just plain might not work right. Basically, it works perfectly now, so there is nowhere for it to go but downhill, and I don't have a lot of faith in MS.

[theBB]

I agree, but this isn't competition-- this is a trap. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me a few dozen times and I start to notice the pattern...
Of course it is a trap. If Silverlight captures a very large part of the market, then MS will probably start treating non-Windows clients very poorly to enforce its Windows domination. However, if it becomes big enough to push Flash into improving, but never large enough to dominate the online video market, then I don't think they could afford to drop Mac or Linux support. That would be good for the consumer. However, it is risky...

[Object-X]

The real question is...how long until they abandon the Mac client like with WMP. My vote is for Adobe and their Flash player. They have no OS agenda like MS.

This is perhaps a predictable response, but completely ignores what the technology is and why Microsoft is developing it. As an alternative to Flash, Microsoft must support all platforms and continue to do so or the technology will loose it's ability to compete. As long as Flash is cross platform compatible, Silverlight will be as well.

What would be more interesting is if Microsoft were to port .Net to Unix and allow developers to develop .Net applications on OS X and Linux. Obviously they have a vested interest in not doing this, so this story is really not all that interesting. But it does demonstrate how much a threat Adobe has become to them. I doubt Silverlight will really challange Flash; it will most likely find a niche market among .Net development shops that will find it easier capitalize on the knowlege pool with their existing developent teams. Why learn Flash and Action Script when they already know .Net?

[Westside guy]

Silverlight currently supports both Mac AND Linux - but I can't believe anyone would actually take Microsoft's word on it remaining cross-platform. It doesn't matter if it's based on an open standard - so is Active Directory, which is where Microsoft "embraced and extended" Kerberos.

Thing is, though, Flash video is no great shakes. It doesn't matter if Silverlight is inferior to Quicktime - Flash is their target.

[bigwig]

Hell, all current mac hardware is essentially OS independent, and I bet in Leopard we see some fancy Bootcamp integration that make the lines between windoze and OSX even more blurred (in a good way)
It's OS independent now. What do you think the real point of Vista is? I think the real point, given how much hardware manufacturers have had to alter their hardware to conform to Vista, is to make all hardware OS dependent.

[notjustjay]

... right, because what the world really needs right now is yet ANOTHER video format.

Edit: the above had been said, numerous times, already... so let me add another thought:

I think whatever the internet video standard becomes, DOES need improving. Look at the current quality of YouTube (Flash) videos... not exactly something you want to play on a HDTV with your AppleTV, which is where things are supposed to be moving.

[AtHomeBoy_2000]

This needs to be killed early....

Its just another MS attempt to kill off rival standards - be it Flash, GoogleVideo, YouTube, Quicktime etc etc.

Avoid like the plague, or we will all suffer later....

I agree. MS needs everything to be THEIR standard.

[iWill]

Ah yes, the ol' "We're really going to play nice this time" ploy... This is just going to go the way of all their other cross platform initiatives: WMP, IE, Windows NT, VPC, MAPI, PlaysForSure... I'm sure ya'll can add to that list.


I agree, but this isn't competition-- this is a trap. Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me a few dozen times and I start to notice the pattern...

Well to me this is good news. I mean if it were Apple that was releasing a flash rival we would all be really happy. But i mean come one, Microsoft sure do know how to do business and their software engineers aren't total amateurs:) .
And besides, the more competition the better right?Don't we all dream to stream videos instantly with hd quality? And one thing's for sure, such a dream will be achieved sooner rather than later with a bit of competition.

[notjustjay]

I agree. MS needs everything to be THEIR standard.

Which MIGHT be somewhat credible except that Microsoft has a history of abandoning even their own standards when they see a market advantage (e.g. PlaysForSure).

To Microsoft, "standard" means only "moneymaker for us".

[Mudbug]

I will assume that Silverlight is to web video what Publisher is to desktop publishing apps, and on that assumption (which probably isn't far off) I'll steer clear of it as long as possible.

Generally speaking of course, MS apps are nightmares.

[PCMacUser]

Well if this software innovates, I'm all for it. I don't care who makes it.

[princealfie]

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/silverlight/bb419317.aspx

This is the official link to start development in Macs for the Silverlight standard. It looks to be rather interesting.

[qtip919]

I agree. MS needs everything to be THEIR standard.

luckily, things like DirectX have no direct end-user benefit ... riiiiiiggght...

[Voidness]

*Yawn*

Whatever happened to the photoshop "rival" M$ released a year or two ago?

All I really remember of it was M$ released a beta and the design community had a good chuckle and got back to work.
You mean this? (http://www.microsoft.com/Expression/expression-studio/overview.aspx)

http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/sil.../bb419317.aspx

This is the official link to start development in Macs for the Silverlight standard. It looks to be rather interesting.
Interesting:
System Requirements
Macintosh Computer with Intel Processor

[somairotevoli]

Silverlight currently supports both Mac AND Linux - but I can't believe anyone would actually take Microsoft's word on it remaining cross-platform. It doesn't matter if it's based on an open standard - so is Active Directory, which is where Microsoft "embraced and extended" Kerberos.

Thing is, though, Flash video is no great shakes. It doesn't matter if Silverlight is inferior to Quicktime - Flash is their target.

Silverlight does NOT support Linux!

[killmoms]

luckily, things like DirectX have no direct end-user benefit ... riiiiiiggght...

Except that the same things can be accomplished with cross-platform libraries.

More compatibility is always better. This is why Microsoft (whose OS business is finally slowing down) should start selling truly interoperable platforms instead of trying to create clones of stuff that already exists to make more money with their OS. Instead of trying to drive the business of something that has more competent competition than ever and can only go down in market share, move your business in the direction of platforms that don't care WHAT OS they live on top of?

[bilbo--baggins]

No doubt it will be buggy and left to get out of date like the other Microsoft software.

If only another company would produce a decent fully functional spreadsheet, then I could be free of their products for good.

[johnee]

well, MS tasted success with windows 3.1/95/xp.

However vista is a bust.

They tried to compete in the mp3 market, but zune was a bust.

Wonder where they will try to find a new success.... hmmm, let's see now, it's a very interesting question... hmmm...

WAIT !!

salami !!

naaa, too ethnic, maybe media?

[gwilli]

Is this not just Microsoft trying to take yet another stab at another version of ActiveX?

[tlhash]

No doubt it will be buggy and left to get out of date like the other Microsoft software.

If only another company would produce a decent fully functional spreadsheet, then I could be free of their products for good.

Try this: http://www.neooffice.org/neojava/en/index.php

[digitalbiker]

However vista is a bust.

I'm no MS fanboy either but calling Vista a bust makes all Apple users look like idiots.

Vista has already had faster sales than XP and is setting records for new OS adoption from windows users.

[BlakTornado]

What's the point? Microsoft should stop wasting their time and just buy Adobe instead :rolleyes:

[Eidorian]

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/1866/woopsgi1.png

In true MS fashion.

I'm never leaving my Flash, now.Did you try downloading it in a browser that is not Safari?

[MLeepson]

Yup. I use Camino.

[SiliconAddict]

I would have no issues supporting an alternate player if...big IF...if it wasn't for the fact that Microsoft has conflicting agendas. this is the sole reason what I've always been a proponent of breaking them up. Right now if they want this thing to become a standard they need to support everyone. Down the road if it does take over the lions share of the market MS will simply drop support for *nix and OS X because MS's bread and butter has always and will always be Windows and Office.
the worst thing to happen to Microsoft was the outcome of the antitrust trial. they are in a position now that actually hurts more then helps. Bring back the concept of Microsoft: OS's, Microsoft: Games, Microsoft: Productivity, Microsoft: Hardware. Make them individual companies separate from each other.

[SiliconAddict]

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/1866/woopsgi1.png

In true MS fashion.

I'm never leaving my Flash, now.

No problems here...using Firefox.

[johnee]

I'm no MS fanboy either but calling Vista a bust makes all Apple users look like idiots.

Vista has already had faster sales than XP and is setting records for new OS adoption from windows users.

well, corporations are not buying into it yet, and with Dell offering XP (due to customer demand!) as an option instead of forcing vista, i would say it's a little bust.

[George Bailey]

The real question is: Will it run on an iPhone?
:)

[Eidorian]

No problems here...using Firefox.Which was pretty much what I suggested. Safari sometimes changes .zip files into a .dmg.

[QuarterSwede]

This needs to be killed early....

Its just another MS attempt to kill off rival standards - be it Flash, GoogleVideo, YouTube, Quicktime etc etc.

Avoid like the plague, or we will all suffer later....
It's actually quite good on OS X unlike Flash (total garbage).

Well if this software innovates, I'm all for it. I don't care who makes it.
Bingo, I'm with you on that one.

... the worst thing to happen to Microsoft was the outcome of the antitrust trial. they are in a position now that actually hurts more then helps. Bring back the concept of Microsoft: OS's, Microsoft: Games, Microsoft: Productivity, Microsoft: Hardware. Make them individual companies separate from each other.
BAD IDEA. That's what happened to Bell and then they became more powerful with all the baby Bells.

[bloodycape]

What is the problem or issue people have with play for sure? They still support it, and the record companies are still supporting so what is the issue?

[twoodcc]

well i guess it's good that there is mac support.....but i probably won't be using it.

[KurtangleTN]

Two questions

1. Will this replace flash? Flash is slow on my comp so that would be cool

2. Why am I getting corrupted images? Tried both Camino, Firefox, and Safari.. even tried IE but it wouldnt get the download.

[ktlx]

well, corporations are not buying into it yet, and with Dell offering XP (due to customer demand!) as an option instead of forcing vista, i would say it's a little bust.
Using that definition, Windows 2000 Workstation, Windows 2000 Server, Windows XP and Windows 2003 Server were all little busts.

I wish I could fail that well. I'd be rich.

[stomer]

This is perhaps a predictable response, but completely ignores what the technology is and why Microsoft is developing it. As an alternative to Flash, Microsoft must support all platforms and continue to do so or the technology will loose it's ability to compete. As long as Flash is cross platform compatible, Silverlight will be as well.
If Silverlight were to ever get near the same market share that Flash currently has, then MS would start asking themselves the question of how they can best leverage that market share into selling more Windows licences.

MS has no interest in making any cross platform applications/frameworks.

[Killyp]

When I click the download link, it begins to download an EXE.

Nothanks M$. Flash & QuickTime do me fine thanks...

[Westside guy]

Silverlight does NOT support Linux!

Okay, you're right in that it doesn't support desktop Linux right now (although it is .NET based, and so should be supportable via Mono). But there is a Silverlight codec available for mobile Linux devices (http://newsvac.newsforge.com/newsvac/07/04/29/2229228.shtml).

[bigandy]

why is this front page news now? silverlight, and the mac version, came out a couple of weeks ago :rolleyes:

[aLoC]

Taking over from Flash? That's pretty ambitious!

[pbaird00]

By the way, Flash isn't a "standard", any more than Windows is (i.e. it's a de facto standard). It's proprietary. You have to pay Adobe for the Flash development tools.

These are some common misconceptions, which only tells me that we, at Adobe, need to do a little better at clarifying some of these things.

First, on the "standard" front, semantics I suppose, but the SWF format technically is a standard, just as PDF is a standard. That's why Apple can integrate both PDF and SWF standards into their own operating system and applications (Apples Print-to-pdf, and Keynotes "Export to SWF" as examples).

Proprietary: Intelligent minds can mean different things when they use the word "Proprietary", but as per my Mac's Dashboard Dictionary widget, Proprietary means "(of a product) marketed under and protected by a registered trade name". So, yeah, I guess so. Not sure what Adobe could really do about that. However, I will point out that much of the Flash Platform is open source. The Tamarin engine is the virtual machine used inside of the Flash Player, and is open sourced and contributed to Mozilla (http://www.mozilla.org/projects/tamarin/). Also it was announced that the Flex SDK, compilers, ActionScript Debuggers, and more are being released as open source under the Mozilla Public License, and the public can contribute to developing that. Which leads me to one of the most important points (and that one that I'm most excited about).

On the question of "buying" software from Adobe, actually, there are some great alternatives for developing flash applications that Adobe provides absolutely for free. There are a lot of tremendous (http://maps.yahoo.com) flash (http://www.picnik.com/) applications (http://www.scrapblog.com/) being devoloped right now in Flex, and you can do the same completely for free in the editor of your choice with the Flex SDK (http://www.adobe.com/products/flex/sdk/). ... True, you don't get the timeline-based design tool Flash Authoring for Free, or the Robust Flex Builder for free... but considering the businesses that are currently being built atop the Platform, the price is a real bargain, and Adobe's got to make money somehow, right?

[Analog Kid]

Just thought of another cross-platform technology that they killed: VBA.
Well if this software innovates, I'm all for it. I don't care who makes it.
If this software innovates, it wasn't made by Microsoft...
Well to me this is good news. I mean if it were Apple that was releasing a flash rival we would all be really happy. But i mean come one, Microsoft sure do know how to do business and their software engineers aren't total amateurs:) .
And besides, the more competition the better right?Don't we all dream to stream videos instantly with hd quality? And one thing's for sure, such a dream will be achieved sooner rather than later with a bit of competition.
Their software engineers aren't amateurs, but they are too isolated and are servants to the business folks, and despite what you think Microsoft doesn't know how to do business. They have a huge money engine that enables them to throw tremendous amounts of cash at problems. Sometimes something sticks to the wall and they find a new product. That's not business though, that's monkeys at the zoo.

I'm all for competition, but that's not what this is. This isn't going to push the state of the art. If MS follows their standard model, they'll put enough effort into the project to develop a slightly inferior product that people will use anyway because it's bundled. That's a drag on innovation-- it devalues quality and technology.

[iMeowbot]

Flash doesn't really have any real competition out there, so I wouldn't go on such an extreme and call for an immediate boycott. In the end, SOME competition is most often good for the consumer as it drives companies to make their products better.
This is especially true given how bad Flash content delivery on the Mac is. Someone needs to give Adobe a kick in the butt to get up to speed, it may was well be MS.

http://img399.imageshack.us/img399/1866/woopsgi1.png

In true MS fashion.
This seems to be a Webkit (Apple) problem actually. The file is downloaded as .bz2, the expansion step is screwing up. Depending on how you downloaded, either try renaming the .bz2 file (if that's what you have) to .dmg (without double clicking first). If that doesn't mount, try renaming back to .bz2 again and manually expand.
I just watched in their showcase the Die Hard trailer and then on Apple's site. Apple's quicktime video is SOOOO MUCH cleaner.
You're comparing a Silverlight stream against QuickTime downloads, that's not a straight comparison at all. QuickTime streaming is really rather poor, that's why Apple avoid it on their own trailer site.

[monke]

I've got it working in Firefox, but not Safari.

Typical MS. :rolleyes:

[primalman]

speaking of their promotional video, what does designing fantasy skateboards and touch-screen charts and graphs have to do with a video delivery format????? :confused:

I really don't get it. There is nothing in the promotional vid that even gets to what the hell this is.

I watched the trailers on the Fox movies example site, kinds jumpy/stuttery and unfocused.

ACK! :eek:

[Muzukun]

well hey, some departments at microsoft can churn out a good product now and then, look at the xbox, and office has been pretty nice so far.

Maybe with mac's growing market share and microsoft constantly needing to continue some form of financial growth and so forth maybe it'll wind up being some form of motivation to ensure they make a good product and ensure it really is cross platform... Or in a few years it'll flop and everyone really will stick with flash OR it will be wmv, be cross platform, get everyone to use it, and then abandon mac support...

[Cult Follower]

I hope this helps flash in that in now has legit competition, i feel like flash has been less than stellar lately.

[ortuno2k]

I could really care less about Silverlight, but I do appreciate that they want to support Macs from the start - whether it works or not.

[SiliconAddict]

*Yawn*

Whatever happened to the photoshop "rival" M$ released a year or two ago?

All I really remember of it was M$ released a beta and the design community had a good chuckle and got back to work.

Oh just another misinformed Macrumor user. Wow that's an uncommon sight. MS never released anything that was designed to compete against Photoshop. Its only people like Mac zealots who made the comparison. :rolleyes:

[SiliconAddict]

It's actually quite good on OS X unlike Flash (total garbage).


Bingo, I'm with you on that one.


BAD IDEA. That's what happened to Bell and then they became more powerful with all the baby Bells.


I wouldn't call them more powerful. The only power they have at this point is because of piss poor government oversight through the FCC. Check this out: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YtFtcp4mNzA
The two have NOTHING to do with each other. Do you even remember the days of Ma Bell? the crap they could get away with back then isn't even possible any more.

I'm no MS fanboy either but calling Vista a bust makes all Apple users look like idiots.

Vista has already had faster sales than XP and is setting records for new OS adoption from windows users.

You want to know why they have faster sales? Simple. MS is nudging companies to stop carrying it. For a period Dell only had XP available on corp systems. They just recently switched back to XP as an option because of the outcry from users. I am at people's homes every day (Dell warrantee work.) of the week doing repair work on people's systems. I would say 1 in 10 systems has Vista on it. I ask people what they think of it. Most are not happy. I had someone today buy a ad\spyware software package from Best buy last week. Lo and behold it doesn't work with Vista. I've getting people who are asking me if its possible to downgrade. I kid you not. People are NOT happy with vista and those who are, are either geeks who know how to tweak the crap out of Vista or are people who just surf the net, check e-mail, and spend 10 minutes a day on the system.
Vista isn't a bust. Far from it. However lets not try and toss chocolate sauce on a turd. In a few years it will get better. right now its a half baked OS. Sprinkle SP1 on it, throw it back in the oven for 6 months and lets see where things are in summer '08.

[hplus]

the most remarkable aspect of the demo was Microsoft's commitment to make the platform "open" and "interoperable" with Mac support

It's been done before. Tout cross platform up front, then slowly choke the stepchildren.

[macnews]

If it can't be authored on a mac, the long term prospects of the player staying cross platform and fully featured are slim.

[aafuss1]

Expression-which has a XAML authoring tool is Windows-only, even though Expression Media runs on Macs (renamed iView)-so you'll have to use Boot Camp,Parallels or VMWare

[aussie_geek]

meh - another attempt by redmond to further microsoftize the computer industry . flash, quicktime and java are there. no need for more. it seems that ms are really having difficulty comming up with great new products these days - ( for the last 7 years actually) . :p

aussie_geek

[jonaseriksson]

Wow, I really like how this thread is full of "I obviously didn't take the time to read into what Silverlight is, but it sure sucks"-people. Do you realize how just how far superior Silverlight is when it comes to performance and possibilities (to Flash and Ajax)?

Just wait and watch as developers start leveraging their VB, C# skills to develop rich web applications. Or when people start noticing that Silverlight runs Javascript faster than any other RE.

[Evangelion]

I'm no MS fanboy either but calling Vista a bust makes all Apple users look like idiots.

Vista has already had faster sales than XP and is setting records for new OS adoption from windows users.

Vista is selling because just about every PC comes preloaded with it. And why is it selling better than XP did? Because more PC's are sold today than were sold when XP was released. What would be interesting to know is the retail-sales of Vista. Those would be more telling as to how badly people want it. And it seems that Vistas retail-sales are nothing to write home about.

This is not how it was with Windows 95, when people rushed to buy it. People are NOT rushing to buy Vista. They are simply buying PC's as they would do in any case, and those PC's just happen to come with Vista.

[hulugu]

All I can say is:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/6/6e/AckbarStanding.jpg

It's a trap!

[hulugu]

Wow, I really like how this thread is full of "I obviously didn't take the time to read into what Silverlight is, but it sure sucks"-people. Do you realize how just how far superior Silverlight is when it comes to performance and possibilities (to Flash and Ajax)?

Just wait and watch as developers start leveraging their VB, C# skills to develop rich web applications. Or when people start noticing that Silverlight runs Javascript faster than any other RE.

It might be great, it might the "coolest thing evar!" but Microsoft's previous attempts to embrace and then extinguish makes me less than enthusiastic about such a product. Do I really want to be beholden to Microsoft to consistently deliver a Mac-version of their software that it's either six months late or missing certain features? I don't trust Microsoft enough to give them any more leverage over Apple than they already have with Microsoft Office, I just don't see the point of giving those guys a stick to hit me—or the Linux guys—over the head with.

[threesixty360]

From a developers point of view, Silverlight offers a few things that Flash doesn’t. Silverlight XAML can be fully indexed by search engines. Something that Flash cant do and is why Flash has always been cursed by the CSS/HTML crowd. It’s also why AJAX has gained a footing.

Nobody (and I mean NOBODY) has made a better development suite than MicroSoft. That means a lot. Flash’s IDE is crap (especially on the MAC, how slow is it …). So from a comfort point of view I would rather develop in Visual Studio then anything else.

Flash requires a separate mind set than working with html. They don’t integrate well together. Flash basically plays video’s/graphics in a section of your web page. Each Flash section doesn’t intergrate directly with another html section. Silverlight has a seamless intergration with your standard html page. That’s a big plus as well.

So for a lot of developers it’s going to be far easier to add a quick graphic effect in there html page using XAML/Silverlight than it is going to be using Flash. I think a great deal of developers are going to think .. ok it works on Mac as well, why not use this.

Flash is more refined and ultimately more powerful at the moment, but 80% of Flash work isn’t really “wizzy” stuff, so I think for that 80% they may well find using Silverlight easier..

[PCMacUser]

meh - another attempt by redmond to further microsoftize the computer industry . flash, quicktime and java are there. no need for more. it seems that ms are really having difficulty comming up with great new products these days - ( for the last 7 years actually) . :p

aussie_geek

Actually Microsoft have been releasing a lot of new products over the last 7 years. It's just that they are more focussed on the corporate market than the retail sector. Easy examples would be Sharepoint and their CRM software. SMS has been out for a while now, and has many benefits in medium to large companies.

When you are in the IT industry you can see what contribution they really make.

[Evangelion]

Wow, I really like how this thread is full of "I obviously didn't take the time to read into what Silverlight is, but it sure sucks"-people. Do you realize how just how far superior Silverlight is when it comes to performance and possibilities (to Flash and Ajax)?

I'm sorry, but after getting screwed by MS over and over and over again, I'm grown to be VERY skeptical about anything that they decide to offer. Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repeat it. And history shows us that MS has always stabbed their partners in the back. MS has always screwed the consumers and partners. And they haven't done that once or twice, they do it again, and again and again.

Want a list? Here's few:

OpenGL. Microsoft and SGI started working on a successor to OpenGL. Then Microsoft pulled the plug, and soon afterwards they came out with Direct3D, a Windows-only tech.

IBM and OS/2. 'Nuff said

"Open" Office-documents? So we have the OASIS-specification that specifies a truly open office-format that can be used by several different office-suites. And it really is open. MS has lobbied hard against anyone who intents to move to OASIS, and the came up with their own "open" specification. But their spec contaisn bit and pieces of ancient office-specs that are closed. So it's open on the surface, but in reality it's closed.

Netscape and "cutting off air-supply"?

PlaysforSure and Zune? MS just screwed over a lot of partners there.

Sendo. (http://www.theregister.co.uk/2003/01/06/microsofts_masterplan_to_screw_phone/) Go read that, it makes for an interesting read.

And I'm just scratching the surface here.

Seriously: Doing business with Microsoft is simply not smart. Relying on their technologies is simply not smart. They have a LONG trail of blood behind them, and that blood is from partners and customers who have been stabbed in the back by Microsoft. It really does make sense to steer clear from Microsoft-tech like this just by the grounds that it's from Microsoft. They have screwed us over too often, and I say that the buck stops here. It's time to draw a line in the sand and say "Microsoft: Go ***** yourself".

[Evoken]

I installed it but then I go to the Microsoft Silverlight page to view some demo and it tells me that I need to download it?

[SPUY767]

luckily, things like DirectX have no direct end-user benefit ... riiiiiiggght...

Oh, my mistake, I was made to understand that OpenGL did everything that DX did, in a faster, less resource intensive, multi-core capable way. Albiet, OpenGL is more difficult to program in because MS isn't holding your hand like a lost schoolgirl, but it is more capable.

[SPUY767]

Using that definition, Windows 2000 Workstation, Windows 2000 Server, Windows XP and Windows 2003 Server were all little busts.

I wish I could fail that well. I'd be rich.

The least of Vista's problems are lack of adoption in the business market. The hotel I manage still uses 2k on all its workstations, and XP is an uncontested success, in terms of sales. Vista users I have spoken with tell me that they hate it. Some with ultimate who have the bare minimum hardware specs say that it is incredibly slow. I have been asked by about fifteen people I know to install XP on their system cause they can't deal with vista any longer. I have no problem using Vista, it is a bit sluggish at times on mid-grade hardware, but it runs peachily on my Mac Pro whose specs obviously slaughter that of most PC's.

[bdj21ya]

This needs to be killed early....

Its just another MS attempt to kill off rival standards - be it Flash, GoogleVideo, YouTube, Quicktime etc etc.

Avoid like the plague, or we will all suffer later....

I can see some merit to your argument, given MS's behavior with WMP, IE, and the like, as well as the lack of a OS X development client.

However, if Netflix implements this for OS X before Apple comes out with a rental/subscription service, I'm afraid I'll have to be signing up immediately.

[Qunchuy]

Silverlight, formerly code-named "Windows Presentation Foundation/Everywhere,"
Does anyone else think this looks a little backwards? Usually it's the code name which has the catchy nondescript nature, and the actual product name tends to say what it is.

[Analog Kid]

Wow, I really like how this thread is full of "I obviously didn't take the time to read into what Silverlight is, but it sure sucks"-people. Do you realize how just how far superior Silverlight is when it comes to performance and possibilities (to Flash and Ajax)?

Just wait and watch as developers start leveraging their VB, C# skills to develop rich web applications. Or when people start noticing that Silverlight runs Javascript faster than any other RE.
I've read far enough into it to know that it's a Microsoft product and that they're claiming they're going to change their ways and play nice with others. I know that Microsoft has a very long history of over-inflating their claims of technology advances, and an equally long history of improperly resolving conflicts of interest when it comes to their cash cows.

I also know that developers leveraging two MS specific languages for web based applications that are supposed to be platform agnostic does not bode well for the future of my online experience.

If my attitude confuses you, consider it a lesson in the value of reputation and trust in the marketplace. This could be the greatest thing since sliced bread and I'd avoid it because I don't trust the company providing it-- not a lack of trust due to religious zealotry, but a lack of trust based on a long track record emphasized by a recent acceleration in bad behavior.

[NaMo4184]

Does anyone else think this looks a little backwards? Usually it's the code name which has the catchy nondescript nature, and the actual product name tends to say what it is.
I think the naming scheme is from microsoft trying to be hip.

[localoid]

Wow, I really like how this thread is full of "I obviously didn't take the time to read into what Silverlight is, but it sure sucks"-people. Do you realize how just how far superior Silverlight is when it comes to performance and possibilities (to Flash and Ajax)?

Just wait and watch as developers start leveraging their VB, C# skills to develop rich web applications. Or when people start noticing that Silverlight runs Javascript faster than any other RE.

I'm sure the geniuses in-charge @ Redmond will soon figure out ways of turning it into a bloated pig, of unholy abomination proportions, to better match the rest of the Microsoft idiot proof(1) software "solutions"... :rolleyes:

(1) "Make it idiot proof. How idiot proof? Idiot proof to the point that only idiots would want to use it! Now that's -- market share!"

[digitalbiker]

I have no problem using Vista, it is a bit sluggish at times on mid-grade hardware, but it runs peachily on my Mac Pro whose specs obviously slaughter that of most PC's.

Are you running Vista in Parallels or by boot camp?

Just curious because I need to set up a new Mac Pro to also run Vista and I was curious as to Vista's performance in either environment.

[Evoken]

Just curious because I need to set up a new Mac Pro to also run Vista and I was curious as to Vista's performance in either environment.

I think you will be better off using BootCamp for Vista. The video card that Parallels emulates is limited to 32mb and 2D graphics, so Vista will run bad in it. With BootCamp you get to use your real video card.


Evo

[whooleytoo]

This is perhaps a predictable response, but completely ignores what the technology is and why Microsoft is developing it. As an alternative to Flash, Microsoft must support all platforms and continue to do so or the technology will loose it's ability to compete. As long as Flash is cross platform compatible, Silverlight will be as well.

Remember Java? 100% cross-platform Java?

Yet, strangely, Microsoft's VM wasn't 100% compatible with Sun's. And Microsoft struck a deal with Apple in '97 that Apple would work together with Microsoft to make their VMs more compatible, rather than have Apple work closer with Sun. With Java support fragmented, Java support and use has waned on the Mac, and .Net dominates PC development.

In short, Microsoft won, and succeeded in diminishing the impact of a technology which could, ultimately, have wrestled its control of the desktop market away from it. That was '97, cue '07; and the danger to Microsoft is the move towards various web-applications and Adobe have a decided lead here. Suddenly Microsoft is promising the world again.. bait and switch.

[louden]

The real question is: Will it run on an iPhone?
:)


But it will run on a smart phone... Which is cool, if you buy into it.

[louden]

If it can't be authored on a mac, the long term prospects of the player staying cross platform and fully featured are slim.

It's not just a player, it's a platform. That's pretty powerful if you think about it. It's a mini CLR:
http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/04/30/silverlight-the-web-just-got-richer/
or
http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/silverlight/default.aspx

I develop in .Net, and think the future of using that knowledge to build apps that can run cross platform as well have a level of richness in them is pretty cool.

It's not something that Microsoft can start then stop. I't like letting a genie out of a bottle. They could try to carge for it, but then the world can scream bloody murder...

[louden]

Remember Java? 100% cross-platform Java?



Good Lord, dude;

Java on the client was slow (and still is)
Java on the server is great! Unfortunately, too many vendors needed to "add value" and ruin the cross-platform capabilties.

Write once, run anywhere was a pipe dream.

This however might not be - We'll have to see when they add data capabilities to the stack.

[louden]

It's not just a player, it's a platform. That's pretty powerful if you think about it. It's a mini CLR


What would really be funny - if now, someone created a new online office suite using these tools! Wouldn't that be ironic ?! :)

[aaronbrethorst]

If it can't be authored on a mac, the long term prospects of the player staying cross platform and fully featured are slim.

It can be authored anywhere. At the end of the day, you're just dealing with XAML files, which are pure XML, and Javascript, Ruby, Python, VB, or C# files, which are just text files. Sure, you don't get any of the nice hand holding you'd expect out of an IDE, but meh.

I could author a Silverlight app on the Mac with vi or emacs, if I wanted to (although I'd rather use TextMate :) )

[Lanbrown]

The real question is...how long until they abandon the Mac client like with WMP. My vote is for Adobe and their Flash player. They have no OS agenda like MS.

That and look at the platforms they support:
http://www.adobe.com/products/flash/about/

Even my mobile phone has Flash on it. Unless MS is going to write a client for all platforms, they should save their money and let Adobe have the market. We all know how this will play out, MS is going to bundle it with their OS and then get sued again.