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MacBytes
May 5, 2007, 03:44 PM
http://www.macbytes.com/images/bytessig.gif (http://www.macbytes.com)

Category: Opinion/Interviews
Link: Steve Jobs' Unearned Free Ride (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20070505164420)
Description:: "Let's be clear here. I am not saying Steve Jobs committed a crime. What I am saying is that it is pretty obvious by now that Jobs was extremely involved in both of the options grants that have become such problems. The notion that Jobs, a notorious micromanager, would be oblivious while his team worked on these grants is pretty ludicrous."

Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
Approved by Mudbug

theheadguy
May 5, 2007, 04:07 PM
This will be exciting to see how it folds out...

Personally, I have no idea if he is guilty of anything. At the same time, I certainly won't defend him. Instead, I'm in awe of the hundreds of people "in-the-know" on this option scandal who vehemently defend the forever innocent man before it's all played out.

If he is guilty, it's another American executive down for the count.

:rolleyes:

inkswamp
May 5, 2007, 04:41 PM
Try visiting Digg next time an article about this is posted and you can be in awe of the thousands of people "in-the-know" on this option scandal who vehemently condemn Jobs before it's all played out. There are idiots on both sides of the argument, but why you would point fingers at the Mac fans on a Mac forum is beyond me.

In any case, nobody outside of Apple has any special knowledge of what happened so spouting off on either side or mocking either side is pointless.

It is, however, somewhat understandable that hardcore Mac fans, those who follow Jobs' career and are fans of his work, might feel everything they know about him runs counter to this sort of accusation. You can almost see their side of things.

I'm a big fan of Roger Waters, the former lead singer and bass player for Pink Floyd, and I've read a lot about his life and work. A few years ago some people got on a kick about Waters being racist and sexist. Everything I had read about him personally told me that was absolute crap and I argued against it without knowing for sure one way or the other. And in the end I was right. If you're fan, you might have some tangetial insights based on what you read and know.

In some ways, the hardcore Jobs/Apple fans (which I am not, btw) are slightly more reasonable in their assumptions than the anti-Jobs types who, (generally, from what I've seen) are arguing against Jobs from a hate-all-things-Apple perspective.

IJ Reilly
May 5, 2007, 04:41 PM
I figured this was going to be yet another rehash of the options story, but Nocera makes some good points by linking it to the continuing story of obscene executive compensation. The fact is, corporate insiders look after each other's welfare to the exclusion or even at the expense of everybody else (any resemblance to the mafia being completely coincidental, naturally). At least Steve Jobs has made money for his stockholders -- which of course is not always the case with handsomely rewarded chief executives. But we should never forget that this slot machine is rigged to always pay off for the people in the board rooms and corner offices. If anyone else profits, it's only a matter of hitching a lucky ride. We can always lose. They, on the other hand, fix the game such that they always win.

Rocketman
May 5, 2007, 05:15 PM
I had to post one thing. Steve Jobs does create value. Yes the engineers develop the "essential technologies" and they are in fact great. But Jobs for all his a$$hole micromanaging overbearing and no attention to accounting details faults, is an "imagineer". He identifies with uncanny accuracy what real people want in real products that are able to be made today. That matters. I'm sorry.

He is underpaid. Double his salary! I'm not kidding Steve. Make Apple double your salary and publicize it widely :)

Rocketman

theheadguy
May 5, 2007, 05:30 PM
Try visiting Digg next time an article about this is posted and you can be in awe of the thousands of people "in-the-know" on this option scandal who vehemently condemn Jobs before it's all played out. There are idiots on both sides of the argument, but why you would point fingers at the Mac fans on a Mac forum is beyond me.
Whoa there.

I'm a Mac fan as much as the next guy (or girl), and excuse me for not spending my time on Digg. I think you are taking things a little too personally inkswamp.

As you pointed out, there are idiots on both sides of the argument (apparently, as I hadn't read about it at other places aside from here.) Simply put, I'm tired of reading no logical thoughts or arguments apparently since I'm on a "mac forum with mac fans" site. In hindsight, I guess my expectations of fellow mac fans being neutral (or, as I'd like to say, "realistic") was not well thought out. Sorry to offer my opinion.

calculus
May 5, 2007, 06:05 PM
He is underpaid. Double his salary! I'm not kidding Steve. Make Apple double your salary and publicize it widely :)

Rocketman

That would make it two dollars per annum.

someguy
May 5, 2007, 06:10 PM
He is underpaid. Double his salary! I'm not kidding Steve. Make Apple double your salary and publicize it widely :)
So, give him $2 then? ;)

EDIT: Too slow...

Flynnstone
May 5, 2007, 06:55 PM
Steve is the highest paid at about $650 million per year of compensation.
His salary is $1. His compensation is far higher.

edit ...add link

http://www.forbes.com/2007/05/03/ceo-executive-compensation-lead-07ceo-cx_sd_0503ceocompensationintro.html

Turkish
May 5, 2007, 06:59 PM
Steve is the highest paid at about $650 million per year of compensation.
His salary is $1. His compensation is far higher.

How do you figure earnings on previous year's stock grants count his current yearly compensation?

cwt1nospam
May 5, 2007, 07:24 PM
How do you figure earnings on previous year's stock grants count his current yearly compensation?

How do you figure they don't? It's all money, no matter what it's called, or when you have to report it.

solvs
May 5, 2007, 07:49 PM
How do you figure they don't? It's all money, no matter what it's called, or when you have to report it.

Well, for one it's not yearly. It's over 5 years. And it's all stock. There's no real money unless he cashes it in, and last I checked, he hasn't yet. If Apple starts sucking and it's stock falls, he would lose it.

Now if Apple had handed him a check for that much, then it would have been a problem.

SPUY767
May 6, 2007, 07:18 AM
I disagree, I don't think it's a problem. Apple is bringing in cash hand over fist, in an industry that giants like Dell have proven that it is not easy to consistently grow in, (what I mean is, that making money in an industry like oil is a foregone conclusion.) Just one example. Ford. . . CEO made 28 million Q1, Ford as a company, slid further into the mire into which it's sinking. In that case, such compensation is a problem, in the case of Apple, however, investors are consistently raking in money, and that makes Jobs' compensation irrelevant. Not only that, but most CEO's get their money in salary, Jobs taking his in the from of options, make a great case for him to keep the company steaming along. I have no problem whatsoever with what Jobs makes.

IJ Reilly
May 6, 2007, 11:30 AM
Well, for one it's not yearly. It's over 5 years. And it's all stock. There's no real money unless he cashes it in, and last I checked, he hasn't yet. If Apple starts sucking and it's stock falls, he would lose it.

Now if Apple had handed him a check for that much, then it would have been a problem.

Exactly. I've been making this point in lo these many threads, to very little getting it. But one thing that should bother us is that Jobs and his ilk do make quite certain that they cannot really lose. Options under water due to poor stock performance? Cancel, retry. This mentality is built into U.S. corporate governance. It's certainly not unique to Apple.

SMM
May 6, 2007, 11:56 AM
Whatever did, or did not happen, I think I will just wait for the official version and ignore the speculation. I Mr Reilly makes the best point. Executive compensation is out of control.

Max Payne
May 6, 2007, 07:33 PM
Whatever happens, I hope Apple won't lose its way.

Rocketman
May 6, 2007, 07:44 PM
That would make it two dollars per annum.

AND would be BIG news in the press.

Silencio
May 7, 2007, 11:47 AM
Boy, the press sure is having a good time frothing up foment about Jobs, largely based on Fred Anderson's press statement after the SEC announced his settlement. Does anyone with half a brain really think that Anderson's "bombshell" press released contained anything he didn't already say to the SEC? If the SEC thought there was actual fire there and not just a whiff of smoke, wouldn't they have filed charges against Jobs at the same time as Heinen and Anderson?

Jobs is a micromanager only when it comes to product development. It's what he's best at and most passionate about. He doesn't expend even three firing synapses over, say, the Enterprise Sales force, let alone micromanage them. A lot of these pundits just want to build up the myth of Steve Jobs to sell more papers or get more web hits.

Jobs is being judged, convicted, and executed by the media that loathes him because he won't play their game -- and now more and more in the minds or regular people -- on simple hearsay and circumstantial evidence. Barry Bonds, meet Steve Jobs. Steve, meet Barry.