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yzedf
Jun 23, 2003, 06:10 PM
I do find it deliciously ironic that the company that invented the PC architecture is the saving grace of Apple, the main competitor of said original PC architecture at that time.

Obviously, a lot has changed in the last 20 years. Macs moving to PPC, Altivec, etc. Yet on the PC side, we have a move from AT to ATX... :rolleyes:

Anyway...

What is with all the brushed metal (OS and hardware)? :mad: I guess this is Apple's way of saying "put your computer on the floor and use it for what it is... a tool." :o

Rower_CPU
Jun 23, 2003, 06:13 PM
Going with "Big Blue" is quite a step. They were bitter rivals in the past, but I think they've seen how mutually beneficial this will be.

Now, if we all of a sudden see the MS relationship getting cozier then we'll know something's up. ;)

QCassidy352
Jun 23, 2003, 06:15 PM
Originally posted by yzedf
I do find it deliciously ironic that the company that invented the PC architecture is the saving grace of Apple, the main competitor of said original PC architecture at that time.



yeah, me too. I've been saying that to my friends and family since I heard about the 970. My family members kept being surprised and somewhat in disbelief [they are mac users also, but not a nut like I am :) ] when I told them that IBM was going to save apple.

I kinda like the idea though. First of all because IBM is a company committed to microprocessors (cough*motorola*cough), and second of all because it's kinda like IBM can use apple to get some revenge on Intel. "Muscle us out of our own industry will you?? Well, we'll just go help the other team!"

:D :p

Flowbee
Jun 23, 2003, 06:16 PM
I don't think the g5 looks bad... just a bit 'industrial' for my tastes. Same goes for the iSight, which will look quite strange pearched atop a gleaming white iMac. Maybe everything will look better in person.

Dont Hurt Me
Jun 23, 2003, 06:21 PM
Originally posted by Flowbee
I don't think the g5 looks bad... just a bit 'industrial' for my tastes. Same goes for the iSight, which will look quite strange pearched atop a gleaming white iMac. Maybe everything will look better in person. agreed get the dam thing off the imac, what the hell happen big brother from 1984 took over everything design wise?

QCassidy352
Jun 23, 2003, 06:23 PM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
agreed get the dam thing off the imac, what the hell happen big brother from 1984 took over everything design wise?

It does look a lot better on the Albooks than on the imacs or ibooks. Just out of place with the latter...

Flowbee
Jun 23, 2003, 06:29 PM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
agreed get the dam thing off the imac, what the hell happen big brother from 1984 took over everything design wise?

Good observation. They're actually moving *toward* the boring grey world of their 1984 commercial. :eek:

tjwett
Jun 23, 2003, 06:42 PM
i think the iSight may have been improperly named. it's Alluminum/metal, and it has mesh like the PowerMac. it should not start with the letter "i". everything else that starts with "i"
white, and matches the consumer line. this obviously matches the new PowerMac. although i love the industrial look of both, they shouldve made the camera white IMHO. kids and joe everybody will be using this a lot more than any pros. then again, it's gonna take alot of paper routes for a kid to save up for one of these. this thing is over priced for it's demograph, it may be a flop. i think they wouldve done better with a $50 white plastic job.

sorry, wrong thread.

bbarnhart
Jun 23, 2003, 07:14 PM
IBM is not a "player" in ther personal computer market. They gave up years ago.

Johnboy
Jun 23, 2003, 07:20 PM
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one that thinks it is ugly. Maybe it will look better in real life. I have a question though, I own a Powermac 1 GHZ MDD Firewire 800, boot to OS X only. Now the G4's before mine could boot to OS9 and the G4's after mine will boot to OS9. So what does that mean to me? Will my machine be worth less or more because it is OS X only.
Any one have a guess?

mnkeybsness
Jun 23, 2003, 07:33 PM
i have a very strong feeling that the powermacs look a lot better in real life. the pictures that i've seen all look like they are cheap photoshop jobs. i saw a snippet of it on thescreensavers tonight and it looked drastically better there than the pictures i've seen on the net.

medea
Jun 23, 2003, 08:32 PM
Originally posted by bbarnhart
IBM is not a "player" in ther personal computer market. They gave up years ago.
umm as far as I know they still produce pcs so I'm not sure where you get they have given up from?

As far as the metal thing goes, I don't care for it either, I'm trying to picture what my iMac would look like if it were modeled the same as the G5 PM, and it wouldn't look so nice......

solvs
Jun 23, 2003, 09:05 PM
It's not that the new machines are ugly... they just don't seem to be that pretty. Powerful, though.

It is funny that Apple has partnered with IBM. If you believe "Pirates of Silicon Valley", when Apple first started, they hated the "suits" at IBM. Steve Jobs' goal was to destroy IBM.

Funny how things change.

PowerBook User
Jun 23, 2003, 10:16 PM
Originally posted by Johnboy
I'm glad to see that I'm not the only one that thinks it is ugly. Maybe it will look better in real life. I have a question though, I own a Powermac 1 GHZ MDD Firewire 800, boot to OS X only. Now the G4's before mine could boot to OS9 and the G4's after mine will boot to OS9. So what does that mean to me? Will my machine be worth less or more because it is OS X only.
Any one have a guess?
I think the Power Mac G4's they are selling now are still the old revision of the Power Mac that boots OS 9. I don't think they have FireWire 800 or AirPort Extreme. I could be wrong, though.

Ugg
Jun 23, 2003, 10:51 PM
Originally posted by solvs
It is funny that Apple has partnered with IBM. If you believe "Pirates of Silicon Valley", when Apple first started, they hated the "suits" at IBM. Steve Jobs' goal was to destroy IBM.

Funny how things change.

In a way, Apple did destroy IBM. They've had to totally reinvent themselves as a company, the IBM of 19 years ago isn't much like the IBM of today. Enemies change just as friends do.

Taft
Jun 23, 2003, 10:53 PM
Originally posted by bbarnhart
IBM is not a "player" in ther personal computer market. They gave up years ago.

Wha-wha-whaaat! We need a fact checker over here!

IBM is most certainly in the desktop market. As a matter of fact they make Intel PCs as well as Intel and PPC workstation computers for business. IBM classifies all of them as Personal Computers.

The PPC technology used in their workstations is actually the Power 4+. The new "G5" actually uses much of the same technology as the Power 4+.

More info on their products here (http://www-1.ibm.com/servers/eserver/pseries/hardware/workstations/), here (http://www-132.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?catalogId=-840&langId=-1&storeId=1&categoryId=2035804), and here (http://www-132.ibm.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/CategoryDisplay?storeId=1&catalogId=-840&langId=-1&categoryId=2048974). More info on the technology used in the Power 4+ and the new G5 here (http://arstechnica.com/cpu/03q1/ppc970/ppc970-0.html).

Think, and research before you shoot your mouth off.

Taft

Taft
Jun 23, 2003, 10:55 PM
Originally posted by Ugg
In a way, Apple did destroy IBM. They've had to totally reinvent themselves as a company, the IBM of 19 years ago isn't much like the IBM of today. Enemies change just as friends do.

Yeah, its just like the US and Saddam Hussain.

Ba-dum-bum.

What, too soon??

Taft

pseudobrit
Jun 24, 2003, 12:35 AM
IBM doesn't hold a candle to Dell or HPCompaq in the desktop hardware market. Sony makes and sells plenty of PCs; they're still not a major player compared to the big hitters. IBM is in a similar position. They're not the king of the hill and they probably never will again be king.

And whoever said Apple killed IBM was off base too; MS (and Intel) killed IBM and Apple.

pivo6
Jun 24, 2003, 06:38 AM
Originally posted by pseudobrit
IBM doesn't hold a candle to Dell or HPCompaq in the desktop hardware market. Sony makes and sells plenty of PCs; they're still not a major player compared to the big hitters. IBM is in a similar position. They're not the king of the hill and they probably never will again be king.

And whoever said Apple killed IBM was off base too; MS (and Intel) killed IBM and Apple.

IBM had a hand in killing itself off if I remember correctly. They were more interested in the high end workstations (late 70's early 80's) and did't believe that the desktop market was worth getting into.

Taft
Jun 24, 2003, 08:24 AM
Originally posted by pseudobrit
IBM doesn't hold a candle to Dell or HPCompaq in the desktop hardware market. Sony makes and sells plenty of PCs; they're still not a major player compared to the big hitters. IBM is in a similar position. They're not the king of the hill and they probably never will again be king.

And whoever said Apple killed IBM was off base too; MS (and Intel) killed IBM and Apple.

So are they a "player" in the desktop market? Or a "major player"? A "participant"? "One of many lesser players"? "The Apple of the PC world"?

Basically, what word would you have me use to describe a company who sells hundreds of thousands of desktop machines to businesses and home users every year?

I think "player" works quite nicely. We all know whose at the top of the desktop market: Dell and HP/Compaq. Does that mean that all of their competitors have been pushed out of the market? Nah! As a matter of fact, IBM has a bigger desktop share than Apple. They usually come in third in PC sales.

Check here. (http://www3.gartner.com/5_about/press_releases/pr17jan2003a.jsp)

IBM is indeed a "player" in the PC market. They won't overtake Dell or HP/Compaq soon, but they have solid sales and have had them for years. Also, they have solid sales in the Workstation market for their many corporate server customers.

Taft

michaelrjohnson
Jun 24, 2003, 08:44 AM
I have read plenty of threads and posts (including many in this thread) that talk about how amazing it is that now Apple turned to IBM... HELLO?? Folks, Apple, Motorola AND IBM developed the PPC Chips for Apple, but Motorola did the fabrication. The major thing different here is that Motorola is out of the picture. But Apple has been working with IBM for as long as the PPC has been in the Mac, and that's a long time. Try not to forget that.

That aside, yes, this new partnership IS the BEST thing to happen to Apple in a long time. I think this is the beginning of the end for a lot of PC users. You just cant deny the performance of the current G5, in 12 months, 1Ghz FASTER, they ALREADY have prototypes for the next chips... THAT's the exciting part. This is only the beginning...

Les Kern
Jun 24, 2003, 09:39 AM
With the departure of Motorola and it's troubling deliver record, and Apple's use of IBM, I think we are seeing the beginning of something huge. I was one who thought the iMac when it was first introduced would increase market share. It didn't, although I think the installed base is much bigger. With the new chip and IBM (a "PC-Centric" company) on board, the use of UNIX, the design team at Apple, and the disgust more and more people are showing against our buddies at MS, I'll make the prediction of a happy future.

Les Kern
Jun 24, 2003, 09:42 AM
Oh, and I'm not even mad I just got the 1.42DP a few weeks ago... heck I needed it NOW, and the g5'S won't even be out for months. Bet by next spring I have one though.

rueyeet
Jun 24, 2003, 10:24 AM
Originally posted by pseudobrit
IBM doesn't hold a candle to Dell or HPCompaq in the desktop hardware market.

Maybe, but their laptops are some of the best in the Wintel world, consistently getting rave reviews from the PC pulications. Those laptops also come at premium prices, just as Apple's PowerBooks do. And they're at least as well-made.

The large corporation I work for has a contract for desktops from Compaq (now HP); but all our laptops are IBM ThinkPads. I wouldn't be surprised if most of IBM's desktop sales are corporate as well. They're a niche player doing very well within the market they've chosen, though like Apple, they'll never beat out Dell or HP for sheer volume of units shipped.

I have to say, the G5 enclosure might not be everyone's cup of tea, but it's practically a work of engineering art on the inside. That's one heckuva beautiful machine Apple's got there. If the revised 15" Powerbooks are all that--and come with a G5--I can't wait!! :D

Le Big Mac
Jun 24, 2003, 10:52 AM
Originally posted by solvs

It is funny that Apple has partnered with IBM. If you believe "Pirates of Silicon Valley", when Apple first started, they hated the "suits" at IBM. Steve Jobs' goal was to destroy IBM.

Funny how things change.

I agree. The original computer wars were Apple vs. IBM. But Mircosoft changed that by making the issue software not hardware (perhaps that was inevitable). And IBM changed that by agreeing to give MS the rights to DOS and Windows. And, as for hardware, the war isn't Dell vs. HP vs. whoever -- the only battle there is who is most efficient at producing a commodity. The battle is AMD vs. Intel, and AMD/Intel vs. (now) IBM/Apple. Who knows. In 10 years the battle lines may be redrawn again, and we'll be amazed by some Apple-AMD alliance.

klozowski
Jun 24, 2003, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by Le Big Mac
And IBM changed that by agreeing to give MS the rights to DOS and Windows.

IBM never owned the rights to DOS (at least not the DOS you're talking about) or Windows. MS bought DOS from Tim Patterson and demonstrated it to IBM.

Windows was developed at Microsoft since v 1.0

MorganX
Jun 24, 2003, 11:11 AM
Originally posted by Dont Hurt Me
agreed get the dam thing off the imac, what the hell happen big brother from 1984 took over everything design wise?

I like iSight and will definitely buy one, but I think it will be in a corner, not the center of my iMac.

MorganX
Jun 24, 2003, 11:14 AM
Originally posted by Le Big Mac
But Mircosoft changed that by making the issue software not hardware (perhaps that was inevitable).

Fitting fo this thread. IBM making the CPU for Apple. Microsoft's best software Word/Excel started out on the Mac.

klozowski
Jun 24, 2003, 11:24 AM
Originally posted by MorganX
Fitting fo this thread. IBM making the CPU for Apple. Microsoft's best software Word/Excel started out on the Mac.

This is also incorrect. Word was written for DOS first in 1983, and versions for Mac and Windows were produced in 1984 and 1989 respectively.

MULTIPLAN, predecessor to Excel, was developed concurrently for Apple's GUI and on DOS, to my knowledge.

zimv20
Jun 24, 2003, 12:10 PM
i doubt there is any lingering corporate hostility between apple and ibm.

if anything, the ibm chip division may be driven by the desire to be a better chipmaker than intel. and apple is a great vehicle with which to demonstrate that.

better vehicle than ibm's own ppc workstations, anyway. (does anyone here know someone who owns one? i sure don't)

klozowski
Jun 24, 2003, 12:15 PM
Originally posted by zimv20


if anything, the ibm chip division may be driven by the desire to be a better chipmaker than intel. and apple is a great vehicle with which to demonstrate that.



ibm is already a better chipmaker than intel in many respects. The Power4 is a brilliant design.

zimv20
Jun 24, 2003, 12:24 PM
Originally posted by klozowski
ibm is already a better chipmaker than intel in many respects. The Power4 is a brilliant design.

i agree. i meant to say "may be driven by the desire to be widely recognized as a better chipmaker than intel."

yzedf
Jun 24, 2003, 02:26 PM
Originally posted by zimv20
i agree. i meant to say "may be driven by the desire to be widely recognized as a better chipmaker than intel."
Right now I will settle for "better PPC chipmaker than Motorola."

zimv20
Jun 24, 2003, 04:48 PM
Originally posted by yzedf
Right now I will settle for "better PPC chipmaker than Motorola."

i think it's safe to say that has been achieved. onwards and upwards!

tpjunkie
Jun 24, 2003, 05:12 PM
IBM had a hand in killing itself off if I remember correctly. They were more interested in the high end workstations (late 70's early 80's) and did't believe that the desktop market was worth getting into.

IBM "created" the desktop PC (as the x86 world knows it, anyhow) in 1981

Fender2112
Jun 24, 2003, 08:20 PM
Originally posted by MorganX
Fitting fo this thread. IBM making the CPU for Apple. Microsoft's best software Word/Excel started out on the Mac.

Don't forget about Quicken, AOL, Netscape, Myst, Quicktime, Photoshop, just to name a few.