More MacBook LED and Santa Rosa Rumors

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

With the arrival (http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/004342.html) of the first PC Santa Rosa (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/25/next-generation-intel-platform-santa-rosa-tracking-for-may/) based laptops, several rumors have sprung up about expectations for Apple to follow suit.

A Page 2 Rumor (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/05/09/santa-rosa-based-macbook-pro-very-soon-next-week/) from Gizmodo claims that a Santa Rosa-based MacBook Pro could be coming as early as next week. This "rumor" however is credited as "informed speculation" and cites a "channel partner" as the source. Historically, channel partners have had no inside knowlege of upcoming model refreshes from Apple, so this source is difficult to believe. Appleinsider, however posts claims that a Santa Rosa based MacBook Pro is expected in the "second quarter of the year with an 800MHz frontside bus and second generation Core 2 Duo mobile processors ranging up to 2.4GHz with 4MB of L2 cache

Meanwhile, CrunchGear (http://crunchgear.com/2007/05/09/rumors-no-santa-rosa-macbooks-oled-on-the-way/) counters this with a rumor claim of their own from their "source who works with Apple". According to their report, Santa Rosa based MacBooks will not be coming in the next few weeks or months. Instead, they claim that LED based laptops rumors are true and coming "in the next month". (Well, they actually say "OLED" but we presume they mistyped since there have been no OLED MacBook rumors).

While we have little historical context for CrunchGear's accuracy, their claim does correlate (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/05/08/led-macbook-pro-update-in-june/) with ThinkSecret's claim (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/05/08/led-macbook-pro-update-in-june/) that 15.4" LED MacBook Pros will be seen at WWDC (June 2007).

[queshy]

Apple should jump on the bandwagon and ship a Santa rosa machine....it shouldn't let itself fall behind of the competition.

[dartzorichalcos]

It's just more rumors. So when will the MacBook will be updated? Late Summer? Before Holidays? I guess nobody really knows except for Apple.

[RRK]

It's just more rumors. So when will the MacBook will be updated? Late Summer? Before Holidays?

Well, since "Santa Rosa based MacBooks will not be coming in the next few weeks or months." If they will be coming out it will be in at least a year or maybe the past?

[Watters]

I would think that the MB will be upgraded right after WWDC, but i have heard rummors as late as october... but i don't belive them. I wish they had updated the books now instead of waiting for WWDC :(

[dartzorichalcos]

I would think that the MB will be upgraded right after WWDC, but i have heard rummors as late as october... but i don't belive them. I wish they had updated the books now instead of waiting for WWDC :(

Why can't they just update the MacBook Pro and MacBook to Santa Rosa platform and LED displays at the same time at the WWDC.

[furious]

Enough rumours. We want cold hard facts.

[Whistleway]

Apple should jump on the bandwagon and ship a Santa rosa machine....it shouldn't let itself fall behind of the competition.

Really, why? The current line is just doing fine and they can get more profits as Intel will slash their non-SR chip prices..

[queshy]

Really, why? The current line is just doing fine and they can get more profits as Intel will slash their non-SR chip prices..

I guess you're right. But the problem is that a lot of apple fans won't want to buy "old" technology (not really "old", but tehres something newer and greater already out!)

[DeaconGraves]

Enough rumours. We want cold hard facts.

Unfortunately, MacColdHardFacts.com is not a valid website as of this moment. :p

[droz]

Why can't they just update the MacBook Pro and MacBook to Santa Rosa platform and LED displays at the same time at the WWDC.

I agree. No reason for them to not throw in the Santa Rosa chip at the same time they do the LED upgrade. It would be silly not to, considering every other laptop manufacturer has already announced their Santa Rosa lineup. I would bet on a refresh to the MBs (evidence seems especially supportive of the 15" MB Pro) at WWDC, if not before. :cool:

[Diatribe]

It just says MacBooks. There is no reason Apple can't put SR in MBPs.

[CrackedButter]

Unfortunately, MacColdHardFacts.com is not a valid website as of this moment. :p

Thats because its the wrong address.

You should be looking at www.apple.com instead.

[DaveTheGrey]

Is 10.4 able to handle robson? if not, sr macs will be released with 10.5

dave

[Diatribe]

Is 10.4 able to handle robson? if not, sr macs will be released with 10.5

dave

Compatibilty is only one patch away. ;)

[kingofkolt]

It just says MacBooks. There is no reason Apple can't put SR in MBPs.

I'm guessing that applies to both MB's and MBP's... Could be wrong though. Still though, it's just a rumor...

[papadopolis1024]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)


Meanwhile, CrunchGear (http://crunchgear.com/2007/05/09/rumors-no-santa-rosa-macbooks-oled-on-the-way/) counters this with a rumor claim of their own from their "source who works with Apple".


Not much longer.

[Maccus Aurelius]

I see SR just quickly and quietly being slipped into the MB's and MBP's. No need to announce the arrival of something we already know about, and it's nice to have the surprise.

[amac4me]

My credit card is itching to buy a new MacBook Pro ... please something soon :)

[G.Kirby]

Solid state drives. Now that would be a nice bonus to an LED MacBook/Pro :)

[sjo]

Really, why? The current line is just doing fine and they can get more profits as Intel will slash their non-SR chip prices..

Because (at least where I live) the computer mags have been including macs in their comparison reviews after the switch to Intel. If Apple doesn't have anything new to offer when those comparisons are made there's two options: they can include an old model and get bad rep (old techonology at high price) or nothing at all, and that is not good option either.

[DaveTheGrey]

Compatibilty is only one patch away. ;)

from your lips to steve's ear :)

[AidenShaw]

from your lips to steve's ear :)

I thought that it was a tongue in Steve's ear, or something like that.

http://www.gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2006/10/InEar.png

[Diatribe]

from your lips to steve's ear :)

Yeah, unfortunately he doesn't seem to be listening to me a lot. :D

[shawnce]

I agree. No reason for them to not throw in the Santa Rosa chip at the same time they do the LED upgrade. It would be silly not to, considering every other laptop manufacturer has already announced their Santa Rosa lineup. One reason is what platform expert and driver changes need to be made so that Mac OS X can support the new hardware platform. It shouldn't be a lot of work but Apple may wait until Leopard to bring out the needed hardware support or they may bring it out with a 10.4 patch/update (I personally believe the latter).

[johnee]

These rumors are the only thing keeping me from buying one right now!

The closer we get to WWDC, the more it seems they will be debuted there. I thought the iphone and leopard were going to hog the spotlight, but with all the new stuff they'll be highlighting, everyone's head will be spinning, then they'll all throw up.

[dashiel]

Really, why? The current line is just doing fine and they can get more profits as Intel will slash their non-SR chip prices..

uhm... if you used that logic then there's no need to work on 10.5 and tiger is doing just fine and they could get more profits since their OS team could be reduced. or working on a 3g ipod nano, 6g ipod, 4g imac, etc... apple doesn't thrive because their product lines are doing "just fine", apple thrives because what they have is never good enough (for them).

additionally when the robson based santa rosas start getting tested, the current line up will not be doing just fine. aside from the speed bumps and battery life, hybrid drives are going to be the biggest deal for laptops since active matrix displays.

[strange days]

Well, SANTA ROSA should include a new GPU chipset, right ?

...so I guess Macbooks have at least the same probability to be updated as the MBPs if not higher ( but that would look bad for MBPs buyers )...

My vote is for a whole new 'books line-up in the next few weeks. :cool:

[mopppish]

Appleinsider, however posts claims that a Santa Rosa based MacBook Pro is expected in the "second quarter of the year with an 800MHz frontside bus and second generation Core 2 Duo mobile processors ranging up to 2.4GHz with 4MB of L2 cache.
Wait, so how is this a good upgrade?
My 2.16ghz C2D MBP has a FSB of 667mhz and 4mb of L2 cache. A 2.33ghz MBP is already available. How is a .07ghz CPU speed increase and small FSB increase noteworthy? I mean yeah, it would technically be a bit faster, but not noticably. And the MBP's won't benefit from the GMA3000 (though I suppose they'll likely get a video card upgrade of their own).
My point is, unless both lines get the LED screens, this seems like little more than a standard speed bump. Nothing that justifies "who's waiting for Santa Rosa" threads... :rolleyes:

[Diatribe]

Wait, so how is this a good upgrade?
My 2.16ghz C2D MBP has a FSB of 667mhz and 4mb of L2 cache. A 2.33ghz MBP is already available. How is a .07ghz CPU speed increase and small FSB increase noteworthy? I mean yeah, it would technically be a bit faster, but not noticably. And the MBP's won't benefit from the GMA3000 (though I suppose they'll likely get a video card upgrade of their own).
My point is, unless both lines get the LED screens, this seems like little more than a standard speed bump. Nothing that justifies "who's waiting for Santa Rosa" threads... :rolleyes:

Well, if they get the Turbo Memory NAND flash part of Santa Rosa, then yes, this will be noteworthy. If not, I am with you.

[TC2COOL]

I love speculation.

These kind of posts are the best, total rumor.

I love it. Give me more...

[jkeithh]

Wait, so how is this a good upgrade?
My 2.16ghz C2D MBP has a FSB of 667mhz and 4mb of L2 cache. A 2.33ghz MBP is already available. How is a .07ghz CPU speed increase and small FSB increase noteworthy? I mean yeah, it would technically be a bit faster, but not noticably. And the MBP's won't benefit from the GMA3000 (though I suppose they'll likely get a video card upgrade of their own).
My point is, unless both lines get the LED screens, this seems like little more than a standard speed bump. Nothing that justifies "who's waiting for Santa Rosa" threads... :rolleyes:

Why not? Isn't that we used to always get from Motorola?

[macshark]

I don't know much about rumors, but the logical thing for Apple to do would be to introduce the Santa Rosa MacBook Pros with LED backlights at the WWDC keynote - unless Apple has some other new and cool stuff that will be introduced that we don't know about...

[johnee]

Well, if they get the Turbo Memory NAND flash part of Santa Rosa, then yes, this will be noteworthy. If not, I am with you.

right. Intel has a video which shows the chipset is 2X faster with Turbo Memory.

sounds a lot like some other company that likes Xs.... :D

[zzz999us]

I'm not too sure if it is common now, but my MBP that was ordered at the beginning of the week isn't slated to ship until next week. In the past my orders have shipped quickly and I know that shipping lags usually mean product change, right? Or is Apple shipping so many of these now that the lag is a manufacturing issue?

[droz]

One reason is what platform expert and driver changes need to be made so that Mac OS X can support the new hardware platform. It shouldn't be a lot of work but Apple may wait until Leopard to bring out the needed hardware support or they may bring it out with a 10.4 patch/update (I personally believe the latter).

yeah, good point regarding the OS support, but I just don't see them waiting until the new OS is out to slip in the Santa Rosas. They would lose the back to school sales. Not gonna happen. They'll update soon.

Maybe they'll even throw in a free upgrade certificate for the new OS since it was originally supposed to be out in June. That would be a really pleasant surprise.

[Simon R.]

Hmmmm but why not OLED? It's been what - half a year - since Sony demonstrated OLED displays up to 17" wasn't it? Oh well, I can dream can't I... :)

[Diatribe]

Hmmmm but why not OLED? It's been what - half a year - since Sony demonstrated OLED displays up to 17" wasn't it? Oh well, I can dream can't I... :)

Life span is not up to LCDs thus making it a bad choice still.

[Bobthemonkey]

While Santa Rosa is now official, there are no SR machines shipping yet (except for a handfull of review machines), and it will be a while before they are available in the kind of volume Apple needs for a full scale release. I know they got away with that for the Octo-Pro but the volumes needed here are massivly different.

When Merom was the new Intel release, people were complaining that they could already configure Dell, HP etc machines with it before Apple anounced the updates. In terms of customers getting their products, Apple wasn't any later than anyone else, for at least one product line.

It doesn't really make much sense to announce replacements for existing products before they can ship otherwise you will just end up losing sales.

[Bizmac]

End of May: New MBP (shipping next month) with LED
June: New iMac and Mac Mini (including SR) with MacBooks small upgrade to SR and of course the Jesus Phone.
October/November: New MacBooks, new iPods

You read it here... :apple:

[GanleyBurger]

.
I thought that the PERK for Apple to work with INTEL was being the first to relase new stuff.:confused: :confused: :confused: Like the Octo beast.

You mean that PC users get the Santa Rosa Platform before we do????

What is up with that!!!:mad: :mad:

[Simon R.]

End of May: New MBP (shipping next month) with LED
June: New iMac and Mac Mini (including SR) with MacBooks small upgrade to SR and of course the Jesus Phone.
October/November: New MacBooks, new iPods

You read it here... :apple:

Yes - that is why I wouldn't believe it :D

[IHateUserNames]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

With the arrival (http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/004342.html) of the first PC Santa Rosa (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/02/25/next-generation-intel-platform-santa-rosa-tracking-for-may/) based laptops, several rumors have sprung up about expectations for Apple to follow suit.

A Page 2 Rumor (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/05/09/santa-rosa-based-macbook-pro-very-soon-next-week/) from Gizmodo claims that a Santa Rosa-based MacBook Pro could be coming as early as next week. This "rumor" however is credited as "informed speculation" and cites a "channel partner" as the source. Historically, channel partners have had no inside knowlege of upcoming model refreshes from Apple, so this source is difficult to believe. Appleinsider, however posts claims that a Santa Rosa based MacBook Pro is expected in the "second quarter of the year with an 800MHz frontside bus and second generation Core 2 Duo mobile processors ranging up to 2.4GHz with 4MB of L2 cache

Meanwhile, CrunchGear (http://crunchgear.com/2007/05/09/rumors-no-santa-rosa-macbooks-oled-on-the-way/) counters this with a rumor claim of their own from their "source who works with Apple". According to their report, Santa Rosa based MacBooks will not be coming in the next few weeks or months. Instead, they claim that LED based laptops rumors are true and coming "in the next month". (Well, they actually say "OLED" but we presume they mistyped since there have been no OLED MacBook rumors).

While we have little historical context for CrunchGear's accuracy, their claim does correlate (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/05/08/led-macbook-pro-update-in-june/) with ThinkSecret's claim (http://www.macrumors.com/2007/05/08/led-macbook-pro-update-in-june/) that 15.4" LED MacBook Pros will be seen at WWDC (June 2007).


May we conclude that nobody knows a darn thing? :rolleyes:

[GanleyBurger]

[QUOTE=johnee;3625749]These rumors are the only thing keeping me from buying one right now!


Darn. Me too. A few days ago I actually had reached a point where I was going to stop visiting the site for a month and considered just hitting the buy button. I was actually feeling really happy, telling myself that Core 2 Duo doesn't exactly suck, and that I would have the best computer I could buy on the market today :)

Then, like a drug addict, but I back-slid. Darn!!! Now I'm back into the "AAARRRRRRRGGGGG" mode.:mad: :mad:

Perhaps we need to start an AA.

[kingofkolt]

Yes - that is why I wouldn't believe it :D

ZING!

Perhaps we need to start an AA.

MA. Mac-aholics Anonymous.

[Bobthemonkey]

.
I thought that the PERK for Apple to work with INTEL was being the first to relase new stuff.:confused: :confused: :confused: Like the Octo beast.

You mean that PC users get the Santa Rosa Platform before we do????

What is up with that!!!:mad: :mad:

PC People announce products earlier, using Merom, the only example we have, there is very little difference in terms of when at leat one significant product line is available in large numbers.

[The octo chips Apple are using are very low yield,but Apple only need a few to meet demand.]

With this, Apple will want to have at least one of its 3 big product lines ready to go with the new tech, and hence there it wont accept low inital supplies, which is why some reviewers got Merom machines early - they were inital low-yield runs. This is not Apple practice and with merom Apple got its machine out to consumers in proper numbers no later than anyone else

[GanleyBurger]

ZING
MA. Mac-aholics Anonymous.

or MRA - MacRumors Anonymous.

[SamL]

Fantastic, now I just hope the update comes out before I buy a laptop for college!

Found another great site discussing the rumor @: http://www.marketmatador.com/2007/05/09/iphone-like-rumor-growth-at-apple-over-macbook-pro/

Thanks for the update!

-Sam :apple:

[ClimbingTheLog]

Enough rumours. We want cold hard facts.

Current rebate deals expire on May 20th. :D

[AlmostThere]

PC People announce products earlier, using Merom, the only example we have, there is very little difference in terms of when at leat one significant product line is available in large numbers.

Apple are certainly not shy about announcing new products well before they are widely available!

[AidenShaw]

.I thought that the PERK for Apple to work with INTEL was being the first to relase new stuff.:confused: :confused: :confused: Like the Octo beast.

Apple has been behind the other vendors on most Intel introductions - the only exception was that they shipped an octo-core system 5 months late, but with CPUs that were 12% faster than what the other guys were shipping. It's now possible to get the 12% faster CPUs elsewhere as well, so Apple's "exclusive" was very short-lived.

[Bobthemonkey]

Apple are certainly not shy about announcing new products well before they are widely available!

Allow me to rephrase that..Apple don't announce replacements before they are available. (Macbook, iMac). With ATV and iPhone announcing these products early aren't going to have a significant effect on sales of existing product lines [o.k. you could argue the toss about iPhone canabalising iPod sales, but the latest sales figures show that iPod is still healthy sales-wise, and the market awareness is invaluable]

[CrackedButter]

Wait, so how is this a good upgrade?
My 2.16ghz C2D MBP has a FSB of 667mhz and 4mb of L2 cache. A 2.33ghz MBP is already available. How is a .07ghz CPU speed increase and small FSB increase noteworthy? I mean yeah, it would technically be a bit faster, but not noticably. And the MBP's won't benefit from the GMA3000 (though I suppose they'll likely get a video card upgrade of their own).
My point is, unless both lines get the LED screens, this seems like little more than a standard speed bump. Nothing that justifies "who's waiting for Santa Rosa" threads... :rolleyes:

Don't forget better battery life because power consumption has gone down while the processor speeds have gone up, however small.

[4np]

I don't really care if it's next week or at WWDC; as long as it's a good revision with great specs. I'd rather see these 'sources' to give some more details on the hardware than on the date :)

[timmillwood]

it doesnt seem long since i got my macbook pro at the last update and everyone was saying wait for the santa rosa

but that was 6 months ago! im glad i didnt wait, i would have had to go all the way without a laptop!

[MacSA]

But what about the desktops? The Mac Mini in particular - No rumours at all. I'm guessing it will get just the leftovers.

[netdog]

But what about the desktops? The Mac Mini in particular - No rumours at all. I'm guessing it will get just the leftovers.

The best Mini will be Santa Rosa by July/August for sure. They could be selling a lot of Minis, and I bet they are moving almost none at the moment. As it is configured, it isn't a very good buy, but the form is terrific.

[iW00t]

it doesnt seem long since i got my macbook pro at the last update and everyone was saying wait for the santa rosa

but that was 6 months ago! im glad i didnt wait, i would have had to go all the way without a laptop!

I'd very much prefer a laptop without glotchy backlighting =)

[Bizmac]

Where is my 12" MBP in all these rumors???

1440x900, 12" (13" max!), Graphic Card (ATI or NVDA), ExpressCard, Core2 Duo, dual diplay and video mirroring, iSight, Frontrow, Remote, <4 pounds...

Damn, it is not so difficult, Steve! :apple:
Please.
Your price is mine...

[scrambledwonder]

I'm really excited about the LED screens, but I'm glad that I didn't wait for them. I hemmed and hawed and chewed my nails for months, fretting over getting the latest, greatest machine. "I really NEED Santa Rosa," I told myself. I feel pretty foolish now. My BlackBook is so rockin' it hurts. So fast, so luxurious, so sleek. To think that I could've been enjoying this machine for months! So silly. I'm really happy with my purchase.

At any rate, this is great news. The mercury vapor in traditional screens is a big problem if it's not handled properly. LED screens are a step in the right direction. Not to mention the benefits for Pros who need greater color accuracy . . Go Apple!

[Bobthemonkey]

Sorry, more form me.

First laptop announced (I think) with the new ATI notebook chip, the Radeon HD 2600 XT 256MB. Saying that the new 8series Nvidia chips are available.

With the AMD/ATI merger do people think Apple will avoid ATI.

[DeeTee]

We can only hope!!!:D

[MacSA]

The best Mini will be Santa Rosa by July/August for sure. They could be selling a lot of Minis, and I bet they are moving almost none at the moment. As it is configured, it isn't a very good buy, but the form is terrific.

I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple abandon the Mac Mini altogether in favour of evolving the Apple TV.

As you say yourself, it isn't a very good buy right now, in fact I would go further and say it is the poorest value computer you can buy from any manufacturer at the moment.

[Rocketman]

Enough rumours. We want cold hard facts.

Santa Rosa laptops are shipping in Korea this week.

Apple has, as of late, NOT been the earliest adopter of widely adopted Intel platforms. In fact Apple often waits for not one "major revision part", but two or more MRP's to make their release.

Candidates include

Santa Rosa itself
price drops on flash
price drops on existing C2D and minor bumps of same
dieshrink C2D (and also C2Q)
wireless support chips offering .11a/g/n and .16 wimax
LCD lit displays
Much higher density displays supported by Leopard
TOUCH SENSITIVE displays
Internal micro-raid (time machine)

Remember Apple WANTS to bring us all this stuff, but now that it is on sales volume parity with the larger players it can no longer be bleeding edge, even if it wants to. It can only be mid-leading edge. The good news is the three month delay for adoption of something like Santa Rosa lets other components ramp in production or if ramped, drop in price.

It's a new world. Apple has large scale sales and is "supply constrained".

Rocketman

[Whistleway]

Wait, so how is this a good upgrade?
My 2.16ghz C2D MBP has a FSB of 667mhz and 4mb of L2 cache. A 2.33ghz MBP is already available. How is a .07ghz CPU speed increase and small FSB increase noteworthy? I mean yeah, it would technically be a bit faster, but not noticably. And the MBP's won't benefit from the GMA3000 (though I suppose they'll likely get a video card upgrade of their own).
My point is, unless both lines get the LED screens, this seems like little more than a standard speed bump. Nothing that justifies "who's waiting for Santa Rosa" threads... :rolleyes:

Thank you. That's what I meant in my earlier post as to why Apple won't release in a matter of 2 weeks. They would take their time on it. Just my guess.

[gugy]

I would predict Santa Rosa at WWDC.

[Yvan256]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple abandon the Mac Mini altogether in favour of evolving the Apple TV.

As you say yourself, it isn't a very good buy right now, in fact I would go further and say it is the poorest value computer you can buy from any manufacturer at the moment.

As long as they keep a headless low-cost model, I'll be happy. I'm just waiting for an update to change my Mac mini G4/1.42GHz. The current ones aren't even Core 2 Duo, and Santa Rosa is now available. They'll have to finally update the Mac mini or replace it with something else. How about the same form factor as the :apple:TV but as thick as a Mac mini? With a decent GPU and dedicated VRAM again? ;-)

[masse]

Sorry, more form me.

First laptop announced (I think) with the new ATI notebook chip, the Radeon HD 2600 XT 256MB. Saying that the new 8series Nvidia chips are available.

With the AMD/ATI merger do people think Apple will avoid ATI.

I don't think they should be avoiding any company. They are better off just using whatever performs better. I've had a couple computers with ATI cards (2 PC and a laptop), and it's unfair to say ATI puts out an inferior product line. HOWEVER, right now it seems nvidia has faster gpu's for notebooks... I'm also an AMD fanboy but I recognize that nothing can really compete with the C2D (did anyone else think it was funny that when C2D was first put in macbook pro's, steve talked about how it had 40 % more performance per watt, as if performance per watt really meant anything. How about some real numbers please?)

And to everyone happy with your purchases: you are happy now, we'll see who is kicking themselves later. It always works that way, by the time you get your hands on something someone else gets something "better". You have your glory now, we'll have ours later :)

[EagerDragon]

When refering to "Macbooks" or "Books" people should make it clear if they are refering to all, the consumer or the pro.

Based on what I have read so far it looks like the MacBook Pro wil be first, we are probably looking at August or Sept for the consumer MacBook.

[mrowl]

I wouldn't be surprised to see Apple abandon the Mac Mini altogether in favour of evolving the Apple TV.

As you say yourself, it isn't a very good buy right now, in fact I would go further and say it is the poorest value computer you can buy from any manufacturer at the moment.

I read on another site that apple has not been happy with the mini line, and that if they upgrade it, that will cut into the :apple: tv numbers. Like you, I bet they focus on the :apple: tv, and drop the mini.

[EagerDragon]

Unfortunately, MacColdHardFacts.com is not a valid website as of this moment. :p

And it would probably not be a fun place like this one. Half the fun is discussing the rumors at TADA ... MacRumors.com

This is a site for rumors. For facts ..... Apple.com

[EagerDragon]

For me the key thing about SantaRosa would be the ability of handling 4 or more Gigs of RAM onboard instead of the 2 to 3 it can do now.

[akadmon]

As usual

http://crave.cnet.com/8301-1_105-9716998-1.html?tag=cnetfd.mt


Not that I care -- I'm not in a market for toys :-)

[Rocketman]

To be truly "bleeding edge" Apple should release one Mac every 2 years or so at Macworld or somewhere that is "leading edge" ala the 20th Anniversary Mac, but with featuritis forward.

That way it can consumerize with less backlash from purists.

If this had already been in place we might have already seen:

Mid-sized Cube
Expandable Mini
iPod 1TB
12" flash/HDD raid MBP

Rocketman

[digitalbiker]

PC People announce products earlier, using Merom, the only example we have, there is very little difference in terms of when at leat one significant product line is available in large numbers.

[The octo chips Apple are using are very low yield,but Apple only need a few to meet demand.]

With this, Apple will want to have at least one of its 3 big product lines ready to go with the new tech, and hence there it wont accept low inital supplies, which is why some reviewers got Merom machines early - they were inital low-yield runs. This is not Apple practice and with merom Apple got its machine out to consumers in proper numbers no later than anyone else

Are you kidding me?!!!

Apple almost always announces early and usually is way over sold, delivering late.

Almost every computer product I have bought in the last 10 years from Apple I ordered in the Apple online store. Almost everyone was announced at an Apple event, with delivery a couple of months later. Once ordered, almost every product delivered a month later than initially announced.

The only time Apple seems to be quick with delivery is once sales channels have slowed down a bit and product caught up with demand. Apple did much better with the ipod releases but any new computer especially gen. 1 editions almost always ship late.

I love Apple computers and waiting was just part of true Apple experience.

[shawnce]

did anyone else think it was funny that when C2D was first put in macbook pro's, steve talked about how it had 40 % more performance per watt, as if performance per watt really meant anything. How about some real numbers please? Does anyone else think it is funny that folks don't get what it means? ;)

[masse]

how many performance per watt does your computer get? I did not word it properly...my mistake.

[itgoesbuzz]

put a can opener on this thing and im in

[jimN]

how many performance per watt does your computer get? I did not word it properly...my mistake.

you seem to be missing the point here. Performance per watt is so important in laptops because it allows Apple to keep making them small and pretty and hopefully it will prolong the battery life - all essential qualities in a portable computer. With the G4 Apple had reached the limit of what could be put inside a computer and kept sufficiently cool.

Benchmarks for all of the current chips are online now and you can find further scores for the latest SR chipset within this thread.

[Brendon]

I read on another site that apple has not been happy with the mini line, and that if they upgrade it, that will cut into the :apple: tv numbers. Like you, I bet they focus on the :apple: tv, and drop the mini.

It just doesn't make any sense to drop the mini to focus on the :apple: tv. I mean, you do realize that the :apple: tv won't work by itself? The mini is perfect to tuck away somewhere with a huge firewire drive to feed a house full of :apple: tv's. If the mini did not exist, you would be forced to buy an Xserve($$$), use your Imac, use your macbook, or use a PC. If the mini was not there as an option, I would pick the PC running Itunes tucked away somewhere streaming my content. I am sure Apple would want to offer a complete solution that makes sense for the :apple: tv and the mini makes sense as a home media server.

[wrxpert]

Wait, so how is this a good upgrade?
My 2.16ghz C2D MBP has a FSB of 667mhz and 4mb of L2 cache. A 2.33ghz MBP is already available. How is a .07ghz CPU speed increase and small FSB increase noteworthy? I mean yeah, it would technically be a bit faster, but not noticably. And the MBP's won't benefit from the GMA3000 (though I suppose they'll likely get a video card upgrade of their own).
My point is, unless both lines get the LED screens, this seems like little more than a standard speed bump. Nothing that justifies "who's waiting for Santa Rosa" threads... :rolleyes:

First off I take offense to your statement because I started that thread. I also think you don't realize that Santa Rosa has allot more potential than just a speed bump.

[thejadedmonkey]

First off I take offense to your statement because I started that thread. I also think you don't realize that Santa Rosa has allot more potential than just a speed bump.
Could you explain what potential it has then? because I agree with mopppish, Santa Rosa looks little more then a speed bump, true 64 bit chipset for programs that aren't 64 bit, and not much more until things like robinson caching and hybrid hard drives come out

Also, I wouldn't take offense to that, remember, this is just a computer chipset here.. not a revolutionary anti-gravity machine or something.

[defz]

Rocketman, I agree with a lot of your points, and I wanted to touch on some others.


Apple has, as of late, NOT been the earliest adopter of widely adopted Intel platforms. In fact Apple often waits for not one "major revision part", but two or more MRP's to make their release.

One could argue that Apple is one of the more experienced computer hardware manufacturers and that the delay in adopting new Intel technologies would not be based on their fear of quality concerns of a new platform. It is more likely due to the added costs in quickly transferring to new Intel technology vs. the lack of added business value in these situations. They probably had to wait for several things to fall into place, such as shipments of Santa Rosa boards and LED contracts to fall into place. Considering their historical preference of releasing new pro notebooks, it looks like they're overdue by several months, and they would not abandon their "innovator" brand identity if not for waiting for things that would add value to the product.


Candidates include

Santa Rosa itself
price drops on flash
price drops on existing C2D and minor bumps of same
dieshrink C2D (and also C2Q)
wireless support chips offering .11a/g/n and .16 wimax
LCD lit displays
Much higher density displays supported by Leopard
TOUCH SENSITIVE displays
Internal micro-raid (time machine)

Santa Rosa is a huge leap forward, I'm guessing they were waiting primarily for that. The increase to bus speed or Robson caching aren't the motivating factors here. Its a new platform. It will allow for true 64 bit addressing of up to 8 gigs of RAM. It will allow for new 45nm Penryn chips in the future. They need to embrace this sooner, rather than later.

Flash drives probably won't be available for a little while longer. 64GB drives are still too expensive and don't give enough storage.

LED lit displays is probably something they've been secretly working on for some time, and after plans worked out, they decided to roll with it in March. April ship, May manufacture, June-Aug ship to customers.

New display resolutions probably won't be available until res-independent Leopard. Although MacBook Pro users wouldn't mind having the technology early and sitting on it, I'm sure.

Touch sensitive displays. I still think they're gimmicky. I think most of the world does. They're rolling out a new OS, new backlighting, new platform... that's a lot on their plate. Why would they roll out a drastic change like touch screens when there still isn't a killer app touting it?

Internal RAID is pointless. It would require two drives which would be extremely hot, one thing the MacBook Pro already has problems with. It would use 2.5" drives which are slow anyways. Firewire 800 will allow external drives to read at 96MB/sec. Anything faster than that and you're in 10bit 1080p editing and you'll have the money to afford an Xserve and eSATA, or a dedicated workstation like a Mac Pro.



Remember Apple WANTS to bring us all this stuff, but now that it is on sales volume parity with the larger players it can no longer be bleeding edge, even if it wants to. It can only be mid-leading edge. The good news is the three month delay for adoption of something like Santa Rosa lets other components ramp in production or if ramped, drop in price.

It's a new world. Apple has large scale sales and is "supply constrained".

I don't buy any of this. Apple is going to work with Intel and other manufacturers. When Intel produced a master production schedule they assuredly had information from Apple as to how much they would need. We can assume with Apple ordering 100,000 15.4 LED screens that they could have possibly requested 100,000 Santa Rosa boards from Intel as well. If anything, adding Apple to the mix would give Intel greater economies of scale and LOWER prices. Intel and Apple are two of the best companies in the world, and although they can make mistakes sometimes, they are in the position they are in right now because they plan well. Do you think Intel is going to say, "OK Dell, OK Lenovo, here are your Santa Rosas... oh and Apple, you don't get anything because you're new"?

My final thoughts? New MacBook Pro at, or possibly before, WWDC. LED backlit. Radeon Mobility x2600. Santa Rosa board. MacBooks will come shortly thereafter with new LED screens. The real question for me is when a 1900x1080 17" MacBook Pro will come out.

[wrxpert]

Could you explain what potential it has then? because I agree with mopppish, Santa Rosa looks little more then a speed bump, true 64 bit chipset for programs that aren't 64 bit, and not much more until things like robinson caching and hybrid hard drives come out

Also, I wouldn't take offense to that, remember, this is just a computer chipset here.. not a revolutionary anti-gravity machine or something.

Dynamic Acceleration Technology is something I think may have a bigger impact that people might think. And when Robson's available I will be ready for it. I will also be ahead of the curve for the next speed step of notebook RAM.

[localoid]

...Also, I wouldn't take offense to that, remember, this is just a computer chipset here.. not a revolutionary anti-gravity machine or something.

It's not a chipset. It's a platform. If you don't understand the difference, then Google it.

[defz]

Could you explain what potential it has then? because I agree with mopppish, Santa Rosa looks little more then a speed bump, true 64 bit chipset for programs that aren't 64 bit, and not much more until things like robinson caching and hybrid hard drives come out

800 FSB
RAM limit bumped to 8GB, we'll at least see 4GB addressing now
Dynamic FSB switching to save power
Kedron - IEEE 802.11 a/b/g/n mini-PCIe Wi-Fi adapter
Robson/NAND flash memory
Enhanced sleep state to save power
Dynamic Acceleration Technology to speed up single core applications
Upgrade to 45nm Penryn processor in 2008

What's not to like about all that?

[tortoise]

I'm also an AMD fanboy but I recognize that nothing can really compete with the C2D (did anyone else think it was funny that when C2D was first put in macbook pro's, steve talked about how it had 40 % more performance per watt, as if performance per watt really meant anything. How about some real numbers please?)

For applications that really exercise memory (rather than CPU) the AMD gear still beats Intel, though not as badly as it used to. Broadly speaking Intel currently has the upper hand, but they do not dominate the field. The memory architecture of AMD is still markedly better than Intel and this shows up in some apps.

[AidenShaw]

The real question for me is when a 1900x1080 17" MacBook Pro will come out.

You mean 1920x1200, right? Or maybe 1920x1080?

But 1900 must be a typo...

[AidenShaw]

For applications that really exercise memory (rather than CPU) the AMD gear still beats Intel

Not completely true. AMD is very good for the memory performance between CPU(s) on a socket and the memory attached to the memory controller associated with that socket.

If the CPU needs to access memory on a *different* socket, though, it needs to talk to the other socket over a serial bus to get to the memory data.

In a four socket configuration, it may need to talk to two other sockets over two separate serial busses to access the memory.


The memory architecture of AMD is still markedly better than Intel and this shows up in some apps.

If it were "markedly better", it would show up on "most" or "all" apps. Not "some" apps.

Look at the SPEC benchmark reports on the AMD systems. The manufacturers have partly disabled the CPU schedulers so that they can make sure that the memory used by a task is local to the CPU where that task is running.

Great for SPEC, but sucks for Photoshop or Final Cut or any other application where you want all the cores to work on the same memory.

[Rocketman]

Rocketman, I agree with a lot of your points, and I wanted to touch on some others.

It will allow for new 45nm Penryn chips in the future. They need to embrace this sooner, rather than later.

Why would they roll out a drastic change like touch screens when there still isn't a killer app touting it?

Internal RAID is pointless. It would require two drives which would be extremely hot, one thing the MacBook Pro already has problems with. It would use 2.5" drives which are slow anyways.

Intel and Apple are two of the best companies in the world

My final thoughts? New MacBook Pro at, or possibly before, WWDC. LED backlit. Radeon Mobility x2600. Santa Rosa board. MacBooks will come shortly thereafter with new LED screens. The real question for me is when a 1900x1080 17" MacBook Pro will come out.


Reply:

Penryn is THE thing to Steve, current C2D is the thing to Apple Marketing.

iPhone interface is the killer app for touchscreen as is retail and kiosk. That's a lot of units.

Internal 1.8" microdrive is low enough power and heat for an iPod so a "lappy" (WTF?) it is no problemo.

Buy Intel, Apple, AT&T, Foxconn, etc.

The 15" MBP released at WWDC will actually be worse than a Rev A. It will be pre-release features of the MBP-17 and much later MB-13.

Why can't ANY MacBook user select upgraded graphics, albiet at high cost? And memory, Apple install single stick memory from the factory to improve upgrade net cost. Seriously.

Rocketman

[BenRoethig]

Personally, I expect santa rosa updates in short order with LED displays bowing in with Penryn. I don't know if they are quite ready from prime time this early.

[SMM]

Where is my 12" MBP in all these rumors???

1440x900, 12" (13" max!), Graphic Card (ATI or NVDA), ExpressCard, Core2 Duo, dual diplay and video mirroring, iSight, Frontrow, Remote, <4 pounds...

Damn, it is not so difficult, Steve! :apple:
Please.
Your price is mine...

Natalie Portman is dropping it off on her way to my house to spend the weekend. :cool:

[defz]

You mean 1920x1200, right? Or maybe 1920x1080?

But 1900 must be a typo...

Ugh, busy studying for finals and too many numbers swimming around. You're absolutely right, that's one hell of a typo. WUXGA (1920x1200) was what I was thinking.


Penryn is THE thing to Steve, current C2D is the thing to Apple Marketing.
I'm not sure what you mean by the Penryn statement. Marketing has a secondary job of communicating the customer's needs to the business. Are you saying consumers aren't excited for Penryn? Especially the market for MacBook *Pro*s? I'm certain Apple uses a form of S&OP to balance supply and demand, including new technologies and capacity. Are you suggesting they don't?


iPhone interface is the killer app for touchscreen as is retail and kiosk. That's a lot of units.
iPhone is not a "killer app". Its a consumer hardware device, and a phone at that. Last I checked, Apple wasn't looking at retail and kiosk enrivonments as being cutting edge and consequently tying them in to MacBook Pro development. Now Adobe CS or FCP having slick touchscreen features would be exactly the "killer app" that I described.


Internal 1.8" microdrive is low enough power and heat for an iPod so a "lappy" (WTF?) it is no problemo.
You mean the Hitachis with a 15MB/sec transfer rate? So running those in RAID 0 would give you ~30MB/sec? I can hook up my Samsung SpinPoint via FW800 and get 65MB/sec average read rates. That isn't a valid reason, so you must be talking about about RAID 1. Which would also make little to no sense, as if one drive failed it would be difficult to hot swap it out of a notebook.


Buy Intel, Apple, AT&T, Foxconn, etc.

Sorry, I don't follow what you're trying to say here.


The 15" MBP released at WWDC...
I never said it would be perfect. But the horrors of completely changing architectures are behind now. I'll buy it, and if it breaks, Apple will replace it.


Why can't ANY MacBook user select upgraded graphics, albiet at high cost? And memory, Apple install single stick memory from the factory to improve upgrade net cost. Seriously.
MacBooks are kept cheaper by not accommodating for dedicated graphics cards. It wouldn't be economical for Apple to make that a CTO option for the relatively small amount of people that want dedicated graphics, but don't want to pay a little more for a MBP. Most people that need the dedicated graphics have accepted that the MBP is the only way to go, and pay more for that feature.

[louden]

I don't know much about rumors, but the logical thing for Apple to do would be to introduce the Santa Rosa MacBook Pros with LED backlights at the WWDC keynote - unless Apple has some other new and cool stuff that will be introduced that we don't know about...

What if they just release SR updates to the entire MB and MBP line asap. This week or next...

Then at WWDC - launch a new MBP:
- 12"
- LED
- Solid State HD
- at least an 8 hour battery life
- SR
- ???

[Rocketman]

I'm not sure what you mean by the Penryn statement.

iPhone is not a "killer app". Its a consumer hardware device

I never said it would be perfect. But the horrors of completely changing architectures are behind now. I'll buy it, and if it breaks, Apple will replace it.


MacBooks are kept cheaper by not accommodating for dedicated graphics cards.

Penryn is in development - months away. C2D is shipping and speed bumps are parts changeouts in marketing.

Penryn will make new things possible for the first time.

iPhone (ATN) is a palmtop supercomputer with remote storage and high bandwidth access. Not bad for under 1/4 the cost of a Mac+.

Palmtop or micro form factor or mini-laptop RAID is now cost/power/tecnology practical. Need to store a RED file on your MBP12? No problemo.

Apple tends to abandon all "old" technology. G3 is the exception and only because of a lawsuit and near total processor compatability.

(64 bit) MacBook BTO dedicated graphics is practical. Charge me.

Rocketman

[ThunderLounge]

you seem to be missing the point here. Performance per watt is so important in laptops because it allows Apple to keep making them small and pretty and hopefully it will prolong the battery life - all essential qualities in a portable computer. With the G4 Apple had reached the limit of what could be put inside a computer and kept sufficiently cool.

Benchmarks for all of the current chips are online now and you can find further scores for the latest SR chipset within this thread.

And not to mention that providing as much, or more, performance at a lower wattage also aids in decreasing heat, too.

[defz]

Penryn is in development - months away. C2D is shipping and speed bumps are parts changeouts in marketing.

Penryn will make new things possible for the first time.

iPhone (ATN) is a palmtop supercomputer with remote storage and high bandwidth access. Not bad for under 1/4 the cost of a Mac+.

Palmtop or micro form factor or mini-laptop RAID is now cost/power/tecnology practical. Need to store a RED file on your MBP12? No problemo.

Apple tends to abandon all "old" technology. G3 is the exception and only because of a lawsuit and near total processor compatability.

(64 bit) MacBook BTO dedicated graphics is practical. Charge me.

Rocketman

I'm still not quite sure what you're trying to compare Merom to Penryn in terms of marketing for. Santa Rosa supports both, and adds much desired features. There is no reason for Apple not to embrace the platform at the same time as other companies. They can still sell Merom CPUs on Santa Rosa platform :confused:

Penryn adds SSE4 which will help with video encoding and a few other things. Also quad core mobile cpus, faster bus, and DDR3 support. Nothing new here, just nice improvements to previously existing functionality. Making things faster is always good.

iPhones are amazing, I'll probably get one. I just don't think it means that a notebook needs a touchscreen. They're used completely differently. When Adobe CS or FCP make good use of touchscreen or core features of OSX make use of them, that is when you'll see MBP get touchscreens.

You still haven't specified if you mean 0, 1, JBOD, or something else. Apple would have to add RAID controllers to the Santa Rosa platform (is ICH8MR southbridge even announced yet?). Red will require ~30MB/sec sequential reads iirc, but that still doesn't mean its a good idea when external RAID is so attractive to notebook users. I like the flexibility of using my notebook the way it is, and if I need to edit something, I plug in a FW drive that drastically increases my transfer rates, data integrity, and storage available.

Apple has looked at the cost of giving MBs dedicated graphics and decided that it wouldn't be worth it. There's a business decision behind it, and it may not jive with what you'd like to see, but it most likely won't change with decent chips like the X3000 coming out.

I really feel like you're ignoring my points and just arguing for what *you* would like to personally see in a new notebook without regard to Apple's business, so I'll politely bow out of this conversation. I'll be waiting for the new MBP release, and I'll love what I get. Cheers :)

edit: Ok, I'll bite on your video card challenge before I head off to bed. You say "Charge me"? Well, it will cost you ~$1000, a larger enclosure, and more weight. It may also say "MacBook Pro" on the packaging instead of "MacBook" ;)

[MacAngel]

Look at other manufacturers, SR based notebooks will be released sometime during the June~July period. Hence, WWDC is a more reasonable date for MBPs or MBs to get their updates (please allow :apple: with more transitional period).

HOWEVER, they are talking about updates (new designs/ SR / NAND) on their already LED notebooks.

http://www.notebookreview.com/default.asp?newsID=3666

Whats up in Steve's sleeve? An iphone perhaps....

Sorry guys, you all will get the same kind of disappointment that I have experienced way back in February. LED MBP/MB? Most likely will be released this coming October/ November with/ without a brief announcement during WWDC. I m sure :apple: will be TOO focus on their new baby (iphone)....

I need a notebook this coming August and wish to switch to a Mac (been telling myself since last Christmas).... But what is :apple: offering when you compare their line of products with the likes of Dell, HP, Sony etc.

I sincerely hope :apple: will prove me wrong this time... until August, we shall see!

[mozmac]

The more I hear these rumors, the happier I get. By the time I finally have the money to get a new MacBook (Pro), they are going to be freakin' awesome!

[mahonmeister]

I'm saying lots of intelligent stuff.
Wow. Its nice to see someone who actually seems to know what they're talking about around here. Sure there are others like you here, but they are few and far between. You should keep coming here to correct some of the ridiculous comments that seems to pop up all the time.

Glad to have you here.:)

[kingofkolt]

Excuse my ignorance, but could someone please explain exactly what Robson does/is? I just looked on Wikipedia for info about it but it didn't completely make sense. Speaking of which, wikipedia says that Santa Rosa supports Robson (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robson_flash_memory).

Intel has announced that the Santa Rosa platform and Crestline chipsets will support Intel NAND technology. This platform is slated to come out in the first half of 2007 to support Intel's Merom notebook PC processors.

So why is everyone saying only Penryn would support Robson?

[localoid]

Excuse my ignorance, but could someone please explain exactly what Robson does/is? ...

See Intel's pages on Overcoming Disk Drive Access Bottlenecks with Intel Robson Technology (http://www.intel.com/technology/magazine/computing/robson-1206.htm) and Turbo Memory (http://www.intel.com/performance/mobile/intel_turbo_memory.htm).

So why is everyone saying only Penryn would support Robson?

Err... dunno. Anyone with a CC can order a new Lenovo's new Santa Rosa notebook, the T61, and add an optional 1GB Turbo Memory (codename "Robson") card and have it delivered to their door in about 1-2 weeks.

[Bye Bye Baby]

Why can't they just update the MacBook Pro and MacBook to Santa Rosa platform and LED displays at the same time at the WWDC.

This is obviously the most likely scenario

[k2k koos]

I've just looked at the article introducing the first series of SR based notebooks, and all of them pictured are darn ugly! new platform, but non of them seems to be featuring LED technology for their screens either...

All this makes the current MBP line up still look fresh, eventhough we've seen the same case for how long now???
Anyway, if Apple introduces the new MBP's with the technology described, they are once again at the forefront of the portable computer market, I also hope they will include the Robson technologies for faster and more energy efficient booting..

[Kaptajn Haddock]

Does there even exist 800mhz RAM for the SR chipset? Or does it use the old 667mhz?

[kristoffer4]

Do you guys think that the new Macbook Pro will get a display that can be put different places like the new HP Pavilion HDX?
http://reviews.cnet.com/4321-3121_7-6572180.html?tag=bubbl_2
Makes it look more like a real computer...:)

[RRK]

Wow. Its nice to see someone who actually seems to know what they're talking about around here. Sure there are others like you here, but they are few and far between. You should keep coming here to correct some of the ridiculous comments that seems to pop up all the time.

Glad to have you here.:)

Yes he makes some good points. However, it may be a new pet peeve of mine, but can all of the smart people on these boards try to grasp the difference between touch screen and Multi-touch. It may seem a little anal but to me there is a million miles in between Multi-touch and touch screen technology. Touch screen makes everyone think of their Palm from 1997, which Apple knows is bad design.

[Lone Deranger]

OSX!

Hardware is only half the picture. Don't ever forget that. :)

But what is :apple: offering when you compare their line of products with the likes of Dell, HP, Sony etc.

[TigerShark]

My point is, unless both lines get the LED screens, this seems like little more than a standard speed bump. Nothing that justifies "who's waiting for Santa Rosa" threads... :rolleyes:

I too don't know what all the hype about Santa Rosa is... do we get cheaper Macs or much faster or will the HD be replaced by flash memory...? Apologies, but I honestly don't know this.

[GekkePrutser]

Oops - Someone else already made my point. Shouldn't be posting before reading the whole thread :)

[Kaptajn Haddock]

What RAM will it be using if the frontside bus is 800mhz?

[heisetax]

I don't know much about rumors, but the logical thing for Apple to do would be to introduce the Santa Rosa MacBook Pros with LED backlights at the WWDC keynote - unless Apple has some other new and cool stuff that will be introduced that we don't know about...


They showed off no new Mac product at Mac World this year. Even though iPhone is supposed to have a closed environment, which means that there will be little for 3rd party developers to be able to do, I look to see the iPhone released & the Mac OS 1.5 beta shown.

It would be nice to see an actual Mac product released at WWDC, but remember it is billed as Apple Worldwide Developers Conference. No mention of Mac or computer in the name so why expect to see a Mac new product. About the only thing that they would announce a update for would be the Intel MacBook Pro &/or the Intel MacBook. Maybe a new MacMini Pro for doing the little needed program modifications for the iPhone & Apple TV.

It seems rather ironic that the timing of the conference may well coincide with the release of iPhone, the tinket that has kept Apple from releasing Mac OS 10.5 on time. This shows signs of MS with delays in their OS. The iPhone is not even out yet & it is adversely affecting the Mac. Just think how things will be after it is released. Then we'll find out whether it actually was the iPhone that delayed Mac OS 10.5 or if was actually Apple's lack of commitment to the Mac, or the programming became too hard for them, just like MS said when they had to delay the release of Virtual PC for the Mac a few years ago.

We need Apple to support the Mac. There has been more than one Mac Developer that has stated on this or other forums that the lack of a finished Mac OS 10.5 to be their reason of either cancelling their registration or canceling their plans to go to the conference.

If I was going to develop a case for the iPhone or iPod, WWDC just does not seem to be where I'd want to go. What else is there to do for these new non-Mac products?

Bill the TaxMan

[ready2switch]

While Santa Rosa is now official, there are no SR machines shipping yet (except for a handfull of review machines), and it will be a while before they are available in the kind of volume Apple needs for a full scale release. I know they got away with that for the Octo-Pro but the volumes needed here are massivly different.

When Merom was the new Intel release, people were complaining that they could already configure Dell, HP etc machines with it before Apple anounced the updates. In terms of customers getting their products, Apple wasn't any later than anyone else, for at least one product line.

It doesn't really make much sense to announce replacements for existing products before they can ship otherwise you will just end up losing sales.

Actually, my husband had his Merom Dell laptop in hand about a month before Apple upgraded their lines. The ThinkPad was configurable yesterday with a shipping delay of 1-2 weeks (probably closer to 2 than 1).

The mentality that Apple will lose sales because they are advertising a product that isn't shipping yet doesn't make sense to me. The average consumer is going to want to comparison shop. Many won't naturally look at Macs anyway, some won't know what the difference in technology is, but some will see an 800FSB compared to a 667FSB and without knowing what that means will know that more is better.

Those who do know what Santa Rosa is and means and are still deciding between a PC and a Mac will see the lag time, be sucked into the "Macs are too expensive and have old technology" hype again and go with their PC. The longer Apple waits, the more this will happen. The Mac loyalists will sit and wait and complain themselves into an outrage and ultimately be disappointed with the update, because "if Apple is waiting, something better must be coming too!" even though it's not.

I know Apple does its own thing in its own time, but its not an unreasonable expectation to want Apple to keep on top of their market, primarily BECAUSE of the Intel transition. We know what the skeleton of the machine will be (just like all the other PCs out there). Unless they really do have something better coming, there is no good reason not to announce now.

[koobcamuk]

What if they just release SR updates to the entire MB and MBP line asap. This week or next...

Then at WWDC - launch a new MBP:
- 12"
- LED
- Solid State HD
- at least an 8 hour battery life
- SR
- ???

I would wee myself.

[Clive At Five]

OLED! *laughs*

Then again, OLED has the potential to be so cheap that Apple could include vouchers for up to 5 screen replacements, or something of that sort. I wonder if that would be cost-effective versus LCD. I mean OLED can basically be "Ink-Jet" printed on almost any substrate...

Fricken blue OLEDs. Why can't you work for more than 5000 hours?!

-Clive

[rolandf]

Since the switch the times are gone that Apple was able to provide an alternative to the other PC manufactures.

Now, they just follow the crowed: Dell,HP,..., Noname Computer Ltd. and also Apple just introduced another INTELcremental step in the PC evolution.

Without the will to have its own distinctive hard and software Apple will not survive in the long run.

Do you realise this! Probably not.

[johnee]

What if they just release SR updates to the entire MB and MBP line asap. This week or next...

Then at WWDC - launch a new MBP:
- 12"
- LED
- Solid State HD
- at least an 8 hour battery life
- SR
- ???

??? = margarita mixer :D

that would be cool. would be a great little machine for general work, not media intensive stuff.

[notsofatjames]

Since the switch the times are gone that Apple was able to provide an alternative to the other PC manufactures.

Now, they just follow the crowed: Dell,HP,..., Noname Computer Ltd. and also Apple just introduced another INTELcremental step in the PC evolution.

Without the will to have its own distinctive hard and software Apple will not survive in the long run.

Do you realise this! Probably not.

thats a bit exterme. I do agree in someway, but apple still have its followers, and still makes unique and desirable products. Maybe the internal components are the same as the rest of the computer world, but for the finished product, Apple still try to stand out and be different. The fact that Apple have OS X makes them a non generic company. OS X is "its own destinctive" software, and the general appearance of the hardware is distinctive. How many other computers look as stylish as the Apple range..

[MagicWok]

I'm still waiting to upgrade from my 15" PB, to a MBP.

I don't think I'll get one until there's a refresh, including to the poor graphics card that's currently in the MBP range:(

I'll be going to the states to visit some relatives in a few weeks, and hope to take advantage of the strong &#163;/$ ratio! Here's hoping sooner rather than later. I'm getting used to waiting however, also a bit fed up now - I'm much more interested in the MBP than the iPhone.

[Zadillo]

Since the switch the times are gone that Apple was able to provide an alternative to the other PC manufactures.

Now, they just follow the crowed: Dell,HP,..., Noname Computer Ltd. and also Apple just introduced another INTELcremental step in the PC evolution.

Without the will to have its own distinctive hard and software Apple will not survive in the long run.

Do you realise this! Probably not.

This is really silly. Apple's platform is still unique because of OS X.

The switch to Intel CPU's doesn't prevent Apple from adding their own unique twists to their hardware (light-up keyboard, magnetic power adaptor, firewire 800, etc.).

How were things that different with PowerPC chips? The only difference was incremental upgrades with PowerPC chips instead.

Seriously, if Apple were still trying to cram the latest PowerPC chip into the mobile platform, they'd be dead and buried at this point.

The fact that Apple now gets to use the latest Intel CPU's and platform is a GOOD thing. Intel's mobile CPU's right now are excellent in terms of performance, battery utilization, etc.

The idea that the Mac was only worthwhile because it was PowerPC and not Intel seems just silly.

The Mac is still worthwhile because A) Apple still makes some of the nicest laptops bar none from any PC manufacturer. and B) Apple still makes the only machines which run OS X, which is the real difference.

It is really kind of irrelevant what is running inside. All it means to us is that we get the latest performance and aren't stuck running slow PowerPC G4's in our Mac laptops.

[Zadillo]

I'm still waiting to upgrade from my 15" PB, to a MBP.

I don't think I'll get one until there's a refresh, including to the poor graphics card that's currently in the MBP range:(

I'll be going to the states to visit some relatives in a few weeks, and hope to take advantage of the strong £/$ ratio! Here's hoping sooner rather than later. I'm getting used to waiting however, also a bit fed up now - I'm much more interested in the MBP than the iPhone.

Umm, the X1600 in the MBP isn't a "poor graphics card". Until the recent introduction of the GeForce 8600M and ATI X2600 (both of which are likely replacements for the X1600), it was still essentially about the most powerful GPU one could get in a 15" laptop (certainly a 1" thick one like the MBP).

The only thing more powerful than it in 15" laptops was the GeForce 7700, but even that wasn't dramatically better than the X1600.

-Zadillo

[notsofatjames]

This is really silly. Apple's platform is still unique because of OS X.

The switch to Intel CPU's doesn't prevent Apple from adding their own unique twists to their hardware (light-up keyboard, magnetic power adaptor, firewire 800, etc.).

How were things that different with PowerPC chips? The only difference was incremental upgrades with PowerPC chips instead.

Seriously, if Apple were still trying to cram the latest PowerPC chip into the mobile platform, they'd be dead and buried at this point.

The fact that Apple now gets to use the latest Intel CPU's and platform is a GOOD thing. Intel's mobile CPU's right now are excellent in terms of performance, battery utilization, etc.

The idea that the Mac was only worthwhile because it was PowerPC and not Intel seems just silly.

The Mac is still worthwhile because A) Apple still makes some of the nicest laptops bar none from any PC manufacturer. and B) Apple still makes the only machines which run OS X, which is the real difference.

It is really kind of irrelevant what is running inside. All it means to us is that we get the latest performance and aren't stuck running slow PowerPC G4's in our Mac laptops.
well said!! couldnt have put it better myself!

[RRK]

ATI X2600

This naming scheme is totally playing with my mind. I can't look at it without thinking of the Atari 2600. Which somehow seems like a positive association in my mind. Sorry, back to the topic. Does anyone else think lead batteries when you see the title of this thread? ;)

[jellomizer]

Apple should jump on the bandwagon and ship a Santa rosa machine....it shouldn't let itself fall behind of the competition.

In that case you should get a Dell. And be the people who is playing with the untested technology. Apple is always a little bit behind their competitors for releasing modern chips. But also Apples tend to have less problems. If you look at the Mac Complaints vs PC complaints.

Mac. If I squint I can see that my Display is grainy, The case when it closes is off by 2mm, The oils in my hand are chipping off paint, the Fans make to much noise, The Laptop feels hot. Most of which is due to case issues.

PC. DOA, System is running Slow I reinstalled and still slow, I baught a system with 4 Gig of Ram and the computer only sees 3. Vista/XP/Linux doesn't seem to like this hardware.... Most of which is due to completatly untested hardware issues or bad unrelable hardware.

Some times a little of patants pays off. While the system may be unnotacably slower unless you have it on full CPU 24 hours a day. You get a system that works quite well.

[debrey]

In that case you should get a Dell. And be the people who is playing with the untested technology. Apple is always a little bit behind their competitors for releasing modern chips. But also Apples tend to have less problems. If you look at the Mac Complaints vs PC complaints.



I think this is right. The problem is that Apple doesn't want to make this case to the consumers. They don't want to say "yeah, we don't always have the most up to date technology, because we think that sometimes it is a bad idea." So instead, every once in a while, when they happen to be ahead of the curve, they say "Hey look, we are on the bleeding edge! We are a company that is always on top of the current technology" The problem is that this only happens sometimes, but people expect it (fairly reasonably, given what Apple says) more often. I think that Apple should just try to make less of a big deal when they happen to be on the bleeding edge because too often they aren't. But that would probably be too hard to market: "Apple: it is worth waiting a few months."

[Zadillo]

I think this is right. The problem is that Apple doesn't want to make this case to the consumers. They don't want to say "yeah, we don't always have the most up to date technology, because we think that sometimes it is a bad idea." So instead, every once in a while, when they happen to be ahead of the curve, they say "Hey look, we are on the bleeding edge! We are a company that is always on top of the current technology" The problem is that this only happens sometimes, but people expect it (fairly reasonably, given what Apple says) more often. I think that Apple should just try to make less of a big deal when they happen to be on the bleeding edge because too often they aren't. But that would probably be too hard to market: "Apple: it is worth waiting a few months."

I don't think being a couple months behind on releasing the latest tech qualifies as saying that "too often they aren't" on the bleeding edge. So far the only example we have of that is the introduction of Core 2 Duo chips, where Apple was a couple months behind (but honestly, so what............. Core 2 Duo chips didn't really make a practical difference to anyone yet anyway). Apple was one of the first companies to release laptops with the original Core Duo though.

If Apple gets Santa Rosa laptops out in June or July, they will not be really any later than many other companies, like Asus, etc. which aren't going to have some Santa Rosa models out on the market until then anyway.

-Zadillo

[commander.data]

http://www.nvidia.com/object/notebooks.html

Just saw this on the nVidia 8600M launch site. Doesn't that laptop look suspiciously like a new MBP. It's certainly thin enough and it has the Apple classic wide touchpad. And it doesn't look like any of the HP or Lenovo laptops they show later at the bottom of the page.

In any case, Santa Rosa isn't a big deal.

http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/intel/showdoc.aspx?i=2985&p=6

Tests show that it doesn't really perform better than Merom on Napa. With 4MB of L2 cache and good prefetching, Merom isn't really that limited by the 667MHz FSB unless you are looking at the most memory intensive programs or synthetics. 802.11n we already have and Robson cache is nice but we still need OS support for that. It's really only the GMA X3100, but Intel still hasn't been able to get out drivers that support hardware T&L and VS so it's potential is still unknown unless Apple can unlock all the features themselves.

[shigzeo]

Wait, so how is this a good upgrade?
My 2.16ghz C2D MBP has a FSB of 667mhz and 4mb of L2 cache. A 2.33ghz MBP is already available. How is a .07ghz CPU speed increase and small FSB increase noteworthy? I mean yeah, it would technically be a bit faster, but not noticably. And the MBP's won't benefit from the GMA3000 (though I suppose they'll likely get a video card upgrade of their own).
My point is, unless both lines get the LED screens, this seems like little more than a standard speed bump. Nothing that justifies "who's waiting for Santa Rosa" threads... :rolleyes:

if what you mentioned there happens, ill be happy to buy

[tuc]

I too don't know what all the hype about Santa Rosa is... do we get cheaper Macs or much faster or will the HD be replaced by flash memory...? Apologies, but I honestly don't know this.

Santa Rosa machines shouldn't have the 2GB or 3GB of RAM ceiling. Also, the MacBook (non-Pro) and the MacMini should get better graphics performance, but not other macs that don't use integrated graphics.

The way I see it, that's about it. The other things are fairly minor: faster FSB, the possibility of Robson cache, pre-N wireless (but most macs already have pre-N), a bit more battery life, slightly faster CPUs. Prices should be about the same. Have I missed anything?

--
bitguru blog (http://bitguru.wordpress.com/)

[twoodcc]

well i hope that they release one soon

[unexploded]

Hello all, I've been visiting the MacRumours site for about a year now whilst saving up to buy a MacBook Pro, and I've yet to buy one because of all these bloody updates! I was hoping Leopard would have been out by now but I just can't be arsed to wait any more.

Basically I need to get one as soon as possible, I'm finishing my last year at college and could do with getting one to do some work on the move, and then take the MBP away to university in September.

So what do people think? Should I just go and buy one now or should I wait for this Santa Rosa / LED MBP? Is a June release a realistic estimation (I have my doubts after Leopard and the 'yeah we used our Mac OS team to develop iPhone, so that's why it's delayed' chesnut). How much do people think it will cost and do people think it will be released at more or less the same time in the UK?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, thanks!

[scrambledwonder]

Hello all, I've been visiting the MacRumours site for about a year now whilst saving up to buy a MacBook Pro, and I've yet to buy one because of all these bloody updates! I was hoping Leopard would have been out by now but I just can't be arsed to wait any more.

Basically I need to get one as soon as possible, I'm finishing my last year at college and could do with getting one to do some work on the move, and then take the MBP away to university in September.

So what do people think? Should I just go and buy one now or should I wait for this Santa Rosa / LED MBP? Is a June release a realistic estimation (I have my doubts after Leopard and the 'yeah we used our Mac OS team to develop iPhone, so that's why it's delayed' chesnut). How much do people think it will cost and do people think it will be released at more or less the same time in the UK?

Any feedback would be greatly appreciated, thanks!


New MBPs seem likely for June, but nobody (except Apple) knows for sure.

If you need a computer, get one. The MBP is very fast and capable. Unless you're planning on doing hardcore HD video work, the current MBP should meet your needs for the next few years.

Don't worry too much about updates. There will always be something else "better" just around the corner. Get a computer, make money with it, then get another one. Don't worry about future processor releases (unless they're planned, like, next week) and just go for it.

If you're terribly worried about losing money on the deal, look for a used MBP or an Apple Refurbished machine. Either way you should be able to save about $400. That way you won't feel that bad if something new comes out a few weeks after you get yours.

In the end, it's just a computer. You'll have plenty of them in your life (hopefully), so don't stress about it. Just be happy.

Good luck man.

-Dustin

[scrambledwonder]

Wondering about new case materials. . . anybody hear any news about cutting-edge notebook materials in the future? I read about circuit boards made from recycled chicken feathers (pretty hilarious, I know) a year or two ago. Supposedly half the weight of the current circuit board materials. I've been waiting for the tech, but I suppose it's years away. Just like holographic optical storage devices and quantum computers. . . .

[agentmouthwash]

These "Santa Rosa" threads are filled with 2 kinds of people:
(1) Those who just bought a C2D MBP and are saying that Santa Rosa is nothing, but a minor speed bump and not worth waiting for.

(2) Those who have waited for months for this chip (the category that I fall in) and KNOW it's much more than a minor speed bump.

Sorry current MBP users, but I'm going to wait for Santa Rosa. I want a faster system bus, faster application start ups and better battery life. Oh and not to mention more RAM than 3GB which will make my Final Cut Pro very happy. A LCD monitor will be nice as well :)

[shyataroo]

Apple should release OLDED Displays (it can help justify the apple tax) with the MBP and LED on the MB thus getting an early start on the other companies who will soon follow suit and bam! laptops all have OLED. (followed closley by Large Monitors,and TVs)

[23027]

Well, I really hope that the 13.3" Macbooks end up getting updated with SR. Having the improved GPU would be so much nicer.. But they better have a ExpressCard|34 slot.. I think that would be a very worthy integration, because this would make the Macbook that much sexier, but with the proper lingerie of course..

An External Video Card (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/08/hands-on-with-the-asus-xg-station-external-gpu/)

I think having the Expresscard|34 slot would be amazing.. But on the Macbook's. I'm sure people will probably say "just get a MBP?" but the thing is.. I don't really like the MBP's.. It just doesen't compare to the MB in terms of it's features, like the magnet latch, the keyboard (I personally love this..), the smaller size, and the Black colour. Not huge things, but I can't help but love the MB, solely for those things. It hooked me, and i'm torn apart by the fact that it's shared graphics isn't nearly what I would like to have. I am pretty much only a Valve Half-Life 2 kind of guy with a bit of Day of Defeat: Source and Counter-Strike Source in there, maybe an oddball Battlefield 2/2142, and I do lot's of travelling for snowboarding and hockey. Having the sexilicious MB would be so nice, but being able to have the availability of the serious horsepower at home would be so much more comforting for my guilty pleasure of gaming. The only reason I would get the MBP is for the better graphics card, but having the Expresscard|34 availability would just be perfect.

The only reason I'm (and i'm sure many other people like I are as well) are waiting for news of new updates is because it's just sooo close, but at the same time kind of.. Far. I'd probably buy a new MB right now if we weren't within a month of hearing news of what Apple plans to do with their line of notebooks. I'm so sick of waiting, but I hope it will be worth it.

I've been a PC user my whole life, and i've finally decided to switch over. I can easily say that Apple makes the most innovative and beautiful products.. They look so good I want to roast them.

I think i'll be extremely dissapointed if my decision to wait until WWDC turns out to be a waste of time because the new products end up being shipped like, 2 MONTHS LATER. That's a long time.. I want a laptop to bring with me to hockey camps all over the place in July and August.

If that's the case, I'm going to buy a Macbook the very same day.

BTW, is there anyone else who feels the same about a Macbook, basically only waiting for a GPU update? Everything else is good, I just want to have a good enough GPU, or with the external graphics card issue the availability to have a good GPU so that my $2000 dollar laptop can play games released later on in the year.. Mainly the Half-Life 2 series.

Who feels the same? =]

[Manic Mouse]

Well, I really hope that the 13.3" Macbooks end up getting updated with SR. Having the improved GPU would be so much nicer.. But they better have a ExpressCard|34 slot.. I think that would be a very worthy integration, because this would make the Macbook that much sexier, but with the proper lingerie of course..

An External Video Card (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/08/hands-on-with-the-asus-xg-station-external-gpu/)

I think having the Expresscard|34 slot would be amazing.. But on the Macbook's. I'm sure people will probably say "just get a MBP?" but the thing is.. I don't really like the MBP's.. It just doesen't compare to the MB in terms of it's features, like the magnet latch, the keyboard (I personally love this..), the smaller size, and the Black colour. Not huge things, but I can't help but love the MB, solely for those things. It hooked me, and i'm torn apart by the fact that it's shared graphics isn't nearly what I would like to have. I am pretty much only a Valve Half-Life 2 kind of guy with a bit of Day of Defeat: Source and Counter-Strike Source in there, maybe an oddball Battlefield 2/2142, and I do lot's of travelling for snowboarding and hockey. Having the sexilicious MB would be so nice, but being able to have the availability of the serious horsepower at home would be so much more comforting for my guilty pleasure of gaming. The only reason I would get the MBP is for the better graphics card, but having the Expresscard|34 availability would just be perfect.

The only reason I'm (and i'm sure many other people like I are as well) are waiting for news of new updates is because it's just sooo close, but at the same time kind of.. Far. I'd probably buy a new MB right now if we weren't within a month of hearing news of what Apple plans to do with their line of notebooks. I'm so sick of waiting, but I hope it will be worth it.

I've been a PC user my whole life, and i've finally decided to switch over. I can easily say that Apple makes the most innovative and beautiful products.. They look so good I want to roast them.

I think i'll be extremely dissapointed if my decision to wait until WWDC turns out to be a waste of time because the new products end up being shipped like, 2 MONTHS LATER. That's a long time.. I want a laptop to bring with me to hockey camps all over the place in July and August.

If that's the case, I'm going to buy a Macbook the very same day.

BTW, is there anyone else who feels the same about a Macbook, basically only waiting for a GPU update? Everything else is good, I just want to have a good enough GPU, or with the external graphics card issue the availability to have a good GPU so that my $2000 dollar laptop can play games released later on in the year.. Mainly the Half-Life 2 series.

Who feels the same? =]

The MacBook's GPU is terribly underpowered. I don't see why Apple can't put a low-end GPU in it. Heck, the Apple TV has a better GPU!

[kingofkolt]

I think i'll be extremely dissapointed if my decision to wait until WWDC turns out to be a waste of time because the new products end up being shipped like, 2 MONTHS LATER. That's a long time..

Does this happen often? I need a new MBP by August when I leave for college... But I'd prefer to have it much sooner so I can use it through the summer. Even waiting this long is pushing it for me, but at the same time it seems widely accepted that an update is on the way... so here I wait. It would kill me if I order it and then have to wait another 2 months just to get the damn thing in the mail.

[MArcoetpolo]

Hey everybody!
I'm wsaiting for the new MBP , obviously they will be announced one june the 11...
But what about the shipping time?
will they be on apple store just after? orso?
I hope that the will not be delayed till october for delivery

[mutejute]

id also like to buy a macbook now but whats holding me is the SR/LED rumors coming this june. if the new macbook will have a better gpu and/or exxpresscard and/or fw800, that will be worth the wait. but if this thing will come out in october, ill get one now (or after the announcement).

[Val-kyrie]

As much as I would rather believe Gizmodo, logic lies toward Crunchgear. Consider:

1) SR uses an 800 MHz FSB instead of 667MHz, but no manufacturer currently offering an SR-based laptop is using DDR2 800 MHz RAM. Does it even exist yet? Since only 667MHz DDR2 RAM is currently available, what IMMEDIATE reason is there to upgrade to a chipset offering an 800MHz FSB? Only those of us looking far forward to upgrading memory would want the option of an 800MHz FSB. For all others, there is no benefit.

2) SR uses Intel Turbo Memory (aka Robson Cache) to boost boot times for Vista and to decrease the time required to wake from sleep/hibernation. It is possible Apple could patch Tiger to take advantage but it is more likely, in light of the large focus at Apple toward iPhone development, that Apple will wait for Leopard and include it as a standard feature--one of Steve's features that "will be worth the wait"? After the iPhone is released, it is more likely Apple's primary focus will be toward fixing bugs in Leopard and polishing it before its October(?) debut. So, IMO, Apple has little reason so far to adopt SR?

3) MBPs use discrete graphics so there is no advantage in changing chipsets to SR.

4) Correlatively, MBs use integrated graphics but the current 950 chipset is all that is required/needed for Tiger and is sufficient for most consumers now. This is not aimed at those of us who want bleeding edge technology.

5) LED displays will wow consumers for whom SR will offer no real IMMEDIATE benefits on the Mac platform (with the exception of those who want better integrated graphics--I include myself here--but this is not what most consumers will focus on. If it works now, that is all they care about).

In sum, I expect to see SR adopted with the release of Leopard and not before. With new LED displays to showcase, and few if any immediate benefits from the SR chipset for the Mac platform, I see no reason to expect any SR-based laptops before Sep/Oct. Lastly, please note that this does not include consideration of Vista. Granted the X3000/X3100 integrated gfx chip would be better for Vista, but most consumers are waiting for Vista SP1 unless they buy a new computer with it already installed and most 3rd Party retailers give the option of Win XP for those who need it, for which the current integrated solution is acceptable.

[Val-kyrie]

After reading through the thread, there are two more things to consider:
6) SR provides a true 64 bit chipset. However, the first (true? mostly?) 64 bit OS requiring such a chipset will be Leopard. (Please correct me if I am wrong, OS programming is not my specialty.) As such, there is no IMMEDIATE need for SR.

7) SR allows the computer/OS to address more than 3GB (or GiB-let's not get into this debate here) of RAM. However, who can afford 4GB for a laptop? or for that matter, more than 2GB realistically? Not me, although I would love the option. That said, again, there is no IMMEDIATE need for SR.

As much as I would rather believe Gizmodo, logic lies toward Crunchgear. Consider:

1) SR uses an 800 MHz FSB instead of 667MHz, but no manufacturer currently offering an SR-based laptop is using DDR2 800 MHz RAM. Does it even exist yet? Since only 667MHz DDR2 RAM is currently available, what IMMEDIATE reason is there to upgrade to a chipset offering an 800MHz FSB? Only those of us looking far forward to upgrading memory would want the option of an 800MHz FSB. For all others, there is no benefit.

2) SR uses Intel Turbo Memory (aka Robson Cache) to boost boot times for Vista and to decrease the time required to wake from sleep/hibernation. It is possible Apple could patch Tiger to take advantage but it is more likely, in light of the large focus at Apple toward iPhone development, that Apple will wait for Leopard and include it as a standard feature--one of Steve's features that "will be worth the wait"? After the iPhone is released, it is more likely Apple's primary focus will be toward fixing bugs in Leopard and polishing it before its October(?) debut. So, IMO, Apple has little reason so far to adopt SR?

3) MBPs use discrete graphics so there is no advantage in changing chipsets to SR.

4) Correlatively, MBs use integrated graphics but the current 950 chipset is all that is required/needed for Tiger and is sufficient for most consumers now. This is not aimed at those of us who want bleeding edge technology.

5) LED displays will wow consumers for whom SR will offer no real IMMEDIATE benefits on the Mac platform (with the exception of those who want better integrated graphics--I include myself here--but this is not what most consumers will focus on. If it works now, that is all they care about).

In sum, I expect to see SR adopted with the release of Leopard and not before. With new LED displays to showcase, and few if any immediate benefits from the SR chipset for the Mac platform, I see no reason to expect any SR-based laptops before Sep/Oct. Lastly, please note that this does not include consideration of Vista. Granted the X3000/X3100 integrated gfx chip would be better for Vista, but most consumers are waiting for Vista SP1 unless they buy a new computer with it already installed and most 3rd Party retailers give the option of Win XP for those who need it, for which the current integrated solution is acceptable.

[AidenShaw]

6) SR provides a true 64 bit chipset. However, the first (true? mostly?) 64 bit OS requiring such a chipset will be Leopard. (Please correct me if I am wrong, OS programming is not my specialty.) As such, there is no IMMEDIATE need for SR.

Windows XP 64-bit, Vista 64-bit, and Linux 64-bit could benefit immediately from being able to use the memory between about 3.25 GiB and 4 GiB.

However, who can afford 4GB for a laptop? or for that matter, more than 2GB realistically?

4 GiB is only about $600 from Crucial.

[urbanskywalker]

Will this new processor and graphics card combo allow for driving a larger monitor on the MacBook? Any chance it will also allow Motion to work and other Final Cut Studio Apps?

[Wilcoo]

If you're terribly worried about losing money on the deal, look for a used MBP or an Apple Refurbished machine. Either way you should be able to save about $400. That way you won't feel that bad if something new comes out a few weeks after you get yours.

In the end, it's just a computer. You'll have plenty of them in your life (hopefully), so don't stress about it. Just be happy.

Good luck man.

-Dustin

I ordered my refurbished MBP last Tuesday and totally got caught up in the "rumor" until I read your post. I am still tempted to cancel my order and spend $400 more and wait for a new MBP in June, but then again, they probably won't ship for a few weeks, they'll probably have issues as being the first w/ a new processor / monitor technology, and they might even up the price $100 or so to make up for increased cost. And I just want a new computer now...

Thanks for putting things in perspective :)

[Bye Bye Baby]

Really, why? The current line is just doing fine and they can get more profits as Intel will slash their non-SR chip prices..

Actually

[Bye Bye Baby]

Really, why? The current line is just doing fine and they can get more profits as Intel will slash their non-SR chip prices..

Actually that's not true. Apple has been doing well precisely because they were offering the best chip-set out there. If they want to keep doing well than eventually they will have to move to Santa Rosa. Selling computers is not about inertia, it's about innovation

[tuc]

These "Santa Rosa" threads are filled with 2 kinds of people:
(1) Those who just bought a C2D MBP and are saying that Santa Rosa is nothing, but a minor speed bump and not worth waiting for.

(2) Those who have waited for months for this chip (the category that I fall in) and KNOW it's much more than a minor speed bump.

There's a touch of truth to that, but it's an oversimplification. For example, I haven't bought any macs since late 2003 but I'm one of the ones saying that that Santa Rosa is not a big deal.

Which is not to say I'm not waiting for it. I'm sort of waiting for Santa Rosa MacMinis and MacBooks so I can recommend them to others. The X3100 graphics should be worth waiting for for those two models, and the increased RAM ceiling should future-proof them a bit.

But for the MacBook Pro, I wouldn't wait for Santa Rosa. (Though it may be worth waiting for LED displays and/or Leopard.) Unless Apple does more than I expect with Robson cache, it's just not going to make much difference. The raised RAM ceiling could be worth waiting for for some users, but I don't see it as anything more than "a minor speed bump," as you say.

bitguru blog (http://bitguru.wordpress.com/)

[Val-kyrie]

Windows XP 64-bit, Vista 64-bit, and Linux 64-bit could benefit immediately from being able to use the memory between about 3.25 GiB and 4 GiB.

OK, but very few people use any of these OSs. There are many problems with obtaining drivers for XP 64-bit, and most people still use the 32-bit OSs. Also, there is no IMMEDIATE benefit for the Mac OS, which I think is the overriding factor in any decision. Any benefits for non-Apple systems are a plus, but that's about it.


4 GiB is only about $600 from Crucial.

Still, that is anywhere between 1/2 and 1/3 roughly of the cost of a MB and between roughly 1/3 and 1/5 of the cost of a MBP. If I were Apple, I would assume that few consumers purchasing MBs would need more than 3GiB right now, and that those professionals who needed that much memory in a MBP would more likely purchase a Mac Pro. Not to say there is no need to address more than 4GiB of memory, but only that this affects very few people. I think Apple is waiting for Leopard on the software side and the Penryn processor on the hardware side--though I wouldn't rule out SR with Merom, it just depends on the production schedule of Penryn.

[kristoffer4]

My specs list for a new Macbook would be.

New Santa Rosa with everything including nand flash.
120 GB standard
1 GB Ram standard
3 USB ports
New LED screens

That's it. :D

[EagerDragon]

Consider:

1) SR uses an 800 MHz FSB instead of 667MHz, but no manufacturer currently offering an SR-based laptop is using DDR2 800 MHz RAM. Does it even exist yet? Since only 667MHz DDR2 RAM is currently available, what IMMEDIATE reason is there to upgrade to a chipset offering an 800MHz FSB? Only those of us looking far forward to upgrading memory would want the option of an 800MHz FSB. For all others, there is no benefit.


Memory companies have zero reason to advertice memory before there is a machine that can use it. Samples been out a while and the specifications for the memory have been know a while.

The memory will be for sale soon after the systems that accepts them are for sale.

The memory bandwidth is significant and the extra address space (4 Gig) welcome by some of us looking for a superb MBP.

[pnyc]

The ability to add up to 4GB seams real nice to me.

[chambers7]

So... if the rumor about the Macbook not getting Santa Rosa and LED is true ... Should i go Macbook pro? I have up to $3000 to spend, but i don't need the pro and I would like a very portable one.

Here are the variables:

I'm wondering what labtop system I should buy for my needs.

I almost always run iTunes and run web browsing and word processing. I am a college student and I want to be able to easily carry the labtop around with me.
I would do some video editing (not professional) on iMovie.

I've been waiting for the LED screens and Santa Rosa, and I really want both, but if macbook doesn't have either (and I need a labtop this summer) should i just go pro???

Thanks for your help.

[EagerDragon]

So... if the rumor about the Macbook not getting Santa Rosa and LED is true ... Should i go Macbook pro? I have up to $3000 to spend, but i don't need the pro and I would like a very portable one.

Here are the variables:

I'm wondering what labtop system I should buy for my needs.

I almost always run iTunes and run web browsing and word processing. I am a college student and I want to be able to easily carry the labtop around with me.
I would do some video editing (not professional) on iMovie.

I've been waiting for the LED screens and Santa Rosa, and I really want both, but if macbook doesn't have either (and I need a labtop this summer) should i just go pro???

Thanks for your help.

First of all remember that these are rumors. The ultra may or may not see the light of day. It is very likely the ultra will have very little hard disk space so pictures and movies will have to live in an external drive and you will need an external monitor to do some light video work, I would not recommend an ultra for you.

Sounds like for the most part, a non-pro MacBook is all you need at this time, however the fact that you do movies can put you in the PRO area as video can use the better video card of the pro.

Buy a MacBook now or in 30 - 45 days if you can not wait. Set the rest of the money aside and grow the bank account again, you never know what other products will come along.

If you can wait until October, the LED and SR features maybe part of MB but it is a gamble. Most likely the LED will be there.

The key issue is how long can you wait, do you need a new laptop now? Once you settle these, the rest is gravy. Eitherway the current MacBook or a revised MacBook are what you need, not the ultra. You can always go pro if the LED is such an issue for you, but you realy don't need it, the only negative of the pro is the budget.

Do a little soul searching, do you really need those new features or do you just want them? There is a difference.

[chambers7]

Sounds like for the most part, a non-pro MacBook is all you need at this time, however the fact that you do movies can put you in the PRO area as video can use the better video card of the pro.

Buy a MacBook now or in 30 - 45 days if you can not wait. Set the rest of the money aside and grow the bank account again, you never know what other products will come along.

If you can wait until October, the LED and SR features maybe part of MB but it is a gamble. Most likely the LED will be there.

The key issue is how long can you wait, do you need a new laptop now? Once you settle these, the rest is gravy. Eitherway the current MacBook or a revised MacBook are what you need, not the ultra. You can always go pro if the LED is such an issue for you, but you realy don't need it, the only negative of the pro is the budget.

Do a little soul searching, do you really need those new features or do you just want them? There is a difference.


Thanks for your reply. I will be doing a lot of video (as much as I can fit into my college schedule.) I am wondering what kind of difference a dedicated graphics card will make (i.e. macbook vs. mb pro) and is it worth the cost difference?

3 years ago (in highschool) i made movies on an eMac and that was sweet. Those were the good days.

[EagerDragon]

Thanks for your reply. I will be doing a lot of video (as much as I can fit into my college schedule.) I am wondering what kind of difference a dedicated graphics card will make (i.e. macbook vs. mb pro) and is it worth the cost difference?

3 years ago (in highschool) i made movies on an eMac and that was sweet. Those were the good days.

Depends on what you are using, iMovie will run in MB and MBP, but Final Cut does not run on the MB, seems performance is poor or something.

With FC the video card is used to render the movie and special effect/filters, so it makes a big difference in the time to render. Some of the filters do occur in real time with the use of the GPU, some you have to wait to render. With FC you can also have more video streams/clips playing concurrently like a window with in a window, fades etc. Take a look at FC and also the beginner version (cheaper and good learning).

I am not sure if iMovie takes advantage of the GPU or not. FC comes with a lot of other software for sound editing, titling and other stuff that you will probably need as your videos become more advanced. The FC pro version is expensive but a good value, however I would suggest you go baby steps and get the beginner version first, it has a lot more features and power than iMovie and gets you closer to the pro version.

[EagerDragon]

One last item.
Final cut express HD is well due for an update given the number of changes to the pro version of fcm so that is something to think about.

[Igantius]

Depends on what you are using, iMovie will run in MB and MBP, but Final Cut does not run on the MB, seems performance is poor or something.

Nope - FC runs on MBs just fine - something that's been discussed previously on this forum quite a bit.

Here're some benchmarks about a year ago - http://creativemac.digitalmedianet.com/articles/viewarticle.jsp?id=43717 - these have been discussed previously.