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MacBytes
May 10, 2007, 02:11 PM
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Category: Apple Hardware
Link: Apple faces security threat with iPhone (http://www.macbytes.com/link.php?sid=20070510151141)
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Posted on MacBytes.com (http://www.macbytes.com)
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dashiel
May 10, 2007, 02:36 PM
more fud. the security through obscurity myth has been proven wrong time and time again.

and let's be serious shall we. according to wikipedia there are

windows has around a 95% market share
symbian has around a 70% market share
mac osx has around a 4% market share
iphone is expected to have a 1% market share

windows has 140,000 known viruses
symbian has 83 known viruses
mac os x has 0
iphone ??

so if the iphone were to garner the 1% of the market that apple wants, and if the iphone's OS is going to be less secure and more vulnerable than the desktop OS X, then we'll get 1-2% share of the whopping 83 symbian viruses... of course as it stands, it looks like the iphone is going to be significantly less open than desktop os x.

iJawn108
May 10, 2007, 02:48 PM
more fud. the security through obscurity myth has been proven wrong time and time again.

and let's be serious shall we. according to wikipedia there are

windows has around a 95% market share
symbian has around a 70% market share
mac osx has around a 4% market share
iphone is expected to have a 1% market share

windows has 140,000 known viruses
symbian has 83 known viruses
mac os x has 0
iphone ??

so if the iphone were to garner the 1% of the market that apple wants, and if the iphone's OS is going to be less secure and more vulnerable than the desktop OS X, then we'll get 1-2% share of the whopping 83 symbian viruses... of course as it stands, it looks like the iphone is going to be significantly less open than desktop os x.9

Rodimus Prime
May 10, 2007, 03:05 PM
more fud. the security through obscurity myth has been proven wrong time and time again.

and let's be serious shall we. according to wikipedia there are

windows has around a 95% market share
symbian has around a 70% market share
mac osx has around a 4% market share
iphone is expected to have a 1% market share

windows has 140,000 known viruses
symbian has 83 known viruses
mac os x has 0
iphone ??

so if the iphone were to garner the 1% of the market that apple wants, and if the iphone's OS is going to be less secure and more vulnerable than the desktop OS X, then we'll get 1-2% share of the whopping 83 symbian viruses... of course as it stands, it looks like the iphone is going to be significantly less open than desktop os x.

might like to point out that it not a direct relationship on the viruses to use the security though obscurity wrong. In many ways there is a lot of security though obscurity. First off it a smaller target so it not going to be targeted as often. And there are mathematical theories out there that explain in much more detail. because there are more virus for windows out there it is easier to write even more virus so it number ramps up a lot faster. The speed of the increase of numbers of virus made is also related though the number already made and being a larger target already means that more are going to be made to begin with and from there it just going to keep ramping up in speed.

When the first virus for OSX is made and hits the open you can be sure that several more will be made in short order and the number of virus and worms will increase at an exponitional rate.
I am saying when because it just plan stupid to think that a virus/worm will never be made for OSX. It is a question of when it will happen.

markie
May 10, 2007, 03:05 PM
""There are fewer Windows Mobile viruses than Symbian viruses two-thirds of the devices use Symbian," Miller said. That comes to about 891 million phones. "

OK, 2/3 of SMARTPHONES use Symbian. There are 2.7 billion mobile phones (most cheap junk phones). Therefore 891 million phones run Symbian? NO WAY.

jmsait19
May 10, 2007, 03:20 PM
When I first read this title, before reading the article, I thought maybe they meant internal security on the Apple Campus, as in employees with their iPhone taking pictures of prototype products...

I think that is a more interesting topic than the whole virus deal...

But my guess is that they won't be allowed to carry their iPhone around in the campus, like a lot of Top Secret government facilities... which is kind of funny when you think about it...

Stella
May 10, 2007, 04:09 PM
""There are fewer Windows Mobile viruses than Symbian viruses – two-thirds of the devices use Symbian," Miller said. That comes to about 891 million phones. "

OK, 2/3 of SMARTPHONES use Symbian. There are 2.7 billion mobile phones (most cheap junk phones). Therefore 891 million phones run Symbian? NO WAY.
100 million Nokia Smartphones based on S60.

http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/5198_One_Hundred_Million_S60s.php

So, there's slightly more than 100 million if you include the other flavours of Nokia Symbian phones, plus SonyEricsson ( UIQ ), Siemens ( S60 ) and et al.

montex
May 10, 2007, 04:58 PM
Time will tell. Who cares which OS is running on a phone? Does anyone care what OS is running on the iPod or any other mp3 player?

All that matters is how well the iPhone functions and how easy it is to use.

logandzwon
May 10, 2007, 05:55 PM
"according to David Marcus of McAfee Inc.'s Avert Labs."

McAfee has been trying for years to get people to buy their anti-virus for OS X. This article is just an extention of that...

Stella
May 10, 2007, 06:12 PM
I do. I wouldn't touch any phone that has microsoft or palm running on it.

iPod / MP's are different - phones carries much more functionality than a music player.

Time will tell. Who cares which OS is running on a phone? Does anyone care what OS is running on the iPod or any other mp3 player?

All that matters is how well the iPhone functions and how easy it is to use.

Analog Kid
May 10, 2007, 09:15 PM
First off it a smaller target so it not going to be targeted as often. And there are mathematical theories out there that explain in much more detail. because there are more virus for windows out there it is easier to write even more virus so it number ramps up a lot faster. The speed of the increase of numbers of virus made is also related though the number already made and being a larger target already means that more are going to be made to begin with and from there it just going to keep ramping up in speed.

When the first virus for OSX is made and hits the open you can be sure that several more will be made in short order and the number of virus and worms will increase at an exponitional rate.

Can you point us to some of the theory on this? I'm not sure I buy the exponential growth theory. Is this like the "broken windows" (no pun intended) theory that if you don't fix one broken window in an abandoned building, they'll all be broken within a week?

I do wish people would stop implying that the market share to virus relation is linear though. The argument that if there are X Windows viruses, OS X would have X*(.5/.95) viruses is just wrong. You need sufficient connectivity between desired targets for a virus to propagate. I suspect there is an exponential relationship between market share and virus count just based on that. Exponential growth over time though, I don't think I believe.

Rodimus Prime
May 10, 2007, 09:42 PM
The theory is hard to explain and it was explain to me by a math major who was doing their theises on a random events and showing there out come. If you put a black and a white ball in a bag and draw one out. And lets say you pull out the back ball. Well you put that black ball back in the bag along with another one and repeat. (Same goes for the white ball). After a while what ever ball color was drawn first will have a ton more in the bag compared to the other color. This theory can be explain the Mac vs PC and partly why PC has taken off compared to the mac. The more PC out their the more likely a PC will be chosen by some one. But in some ways it is like the broken window theory and funny part is you know that theory is true on a building.

The virus can go the same way. Plus you have to remember a lot of the windows virus are just a var rent of another virus. They use the same base code and are modified from there. That is also why the number of viruses out there is based on how many before it. For example I know of at 4-5 different version of the blaster worm from years ago. Funny part was some of them where just using the baster base to get into a computer and then they would start to do something else. My university had a nasty version of it to deal with. If it was on the university network it would run DNS attacks on the university system and it was accessing high levels of the network. but if it was not on the university network it acted just like the blaster worm. In the count list they counted as 2 different worms even those they used the same base code.

nagromme
May 10, 2007, 11:49 PM
Nobody in their right mind believes that the number of targets is irrelevant to motivating attackers.

Nobody in their right mind believes that all OS's are exactly equal in the security of their design and implementation.

In short, EVERYONE knows that OS X is more secure BOTH by design and by being a smaller target.

Furthermore, everyone knows that both advantages will remain true for a very long time to come.

And yet people still take sides as though only ONE factor tells the story? :confused:

solvs
May 11, 2007, 12:48 AM
OS 9 had viruses. Linux had some viruses too. There was even a virus for Linux on iPod. All had fewer users than those using OS X. WindowsCE had viruses too, also despite a lower market share. If the iPhone is based on Leopard, and Leopard is even safer than Tiger was when it came out, for some reason, I'm not worried.

PCMacUser
May 11, 2007, 06:38 AM
Nothing to worry about... the phone market moves so quickly that by the time the iPhone is released outside the USA (2008 for some countries, including mine) it'll be obsolete.

In fact, it already is.

solvs
May 11, 2007, 06:32 PM
Nothing to worry about... the phone market moves so quickly that by the time the iPhone is released outside the USA (2008 for some countries, including mine) it'll be obsolete.

In fact, it already is.

I'm guessing you haven't seen it in person then. ;)

PCMacUser
May 13, 2007, 07:47 PM
I'm guessing you haven't seen it in person then. ;)

That's correct... I based my rash statement on the fact that its features have already been superseded by other offerings, such as the Nokia N95.

The problem is that the USA gets mobile phone technology far later than other parts of the world, eg, Asia and Europe. When I say far later, I mean 6-12 months. So what is new in the USA has already been in other countries for a "long" time. Then take the iPhone, which is to be released in June, then wait until 2008 to release it in other countries which are already 6-12 months ahead of the US, and you have a product that is potentially 12-18 months out of date. It's a wacky equation, but don't you love the dodgy logic? :D

The other thing to consider is the fact that in countries like the UK, the competition between mobile phone providers is so tough that they give phones away for FREE when you sign up on a 12 month contract. If Apple doesn't make these phones cheap enough for the providers to do this, then nobody will buy one. My logic might be flawed there too, but it is true that people generally don't pay for phones in Europe.

solvs
May 14, 2007, 01:31 AM
The other thing to consider is the fact that in countries like the UK, the competition between mobile phone providers is so tough that they give phones away for FREE when you sign up on a 12 month contract.
They do that here too. And most of them are crappy. Not saying everyone is going to rush out an buy one, Apple even said they're only expecting about 1% marketshare within a year, but I expect it'll be more than that if it actually works as well as what they showed. This is not the Nokia N95, even the cool stuff I see coming out in Japan isn't as nice as the way Apple has done this. We might need to wait a couple of generations before it's really good and a lot cheaper, but the way they've implemented the touch screen is simply amazing. Nothing currently on the market is anywhere close. And it's a lot smaller than it looks on the web.

Trust me, this is going to be another iPod.

PCMacUser
May 14, 2007, 02:43 AM
We might need to wait a couple of generations before it's really good and a lot cheaper, but the way they've implemented the touch screen is simply amazing. Nothing currently on the market is anywhere close. And it's a lot smaller than it looks on the web.

Trust me, this is going to be another iPod.

Well, I certainly look forward to seeing it in action.

However I do stand by my viewpoint that it's going to have limited appeal outside the US if they delay its release until 2008. It won't be the 'new thing' by any means then. If they release it internationally in June this year, then they've got a much better chance IMHO. I recently spent a few years living in the UK and they are so mobile phone crazy there - if it's not the latest they're not interested.