G4 PowerBooks Next

[MacRumors]

This MacCentral article (http://maccentral.macworld.com/news/2003/06/24/future/) discusses Apple use the G5 and provides some candid information on upcoming use.

Greg Joswiak, Apple's vice president of Hardware Product Marketing says:


"Our partnership with Motorola is not going away, G4s are in every other part of our product line. As you can see, [the G5] is not going in a PowerBook anytime soon. Motorola remains very important to us, but IBM is the one that can take us to the next level."


MacWhispers (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030610012111.shtml) had been the only rumor site claiming that 970-based Powerbooks were currently in production -- and likely to arrive at WWDC. These reports had been considered unreliable (http://www.macrumors.com/pages/2003/06/20030622032401.shtml) as MacWhispers has been consistently inaccurate with their rumors.

While the PowerBook was not refreshed at WWDC, 15" G4 PowerBook updates are still expected in the coming weeks, as reflected in our Buyer's Guide (http://buyersguide.macrumors.com)

[Tiauguinho]

Oh man... If they release a G4 again, im gonna be speechless...

[xdfgf]

The G4 is still decent on the portable side, but I worry about the heat issue with it. Moto has said that '57 wont be out till later this year, so that means some sort of 55 will be in these :mad:

The real question I think is what about the iBook? Are they gonna get lower clocked g4s than the PBs or are they sticking with the G3 for a little while longer?

[MacFan25]

I'd be surprised if they keep using the G4s in the PowerBooks. Guess we'll just have to keep waiting to see what happens.

[gbojim]

Admin---

You may want to kill the thread I started about this earlier under Hardware/Software.

[agreenster]

At least they could make it aluminum.

I would like to see the G5 in a Powerbook (wouldnt everybody?) but to be realistic, its going to be about a year. I just cant wait to get my hands on that G5 workstation.

[railthinner]

On the bright side: considering I recently shelled out a load of cash for a G4 Powerbook, at least it won't seem dated too soon.

[Foocha]

I always thought the G5 PowerBook in production rumor was a little far fetched.

I'm still intrigued to know what was in the mystery "do not open until Monday" boxes - if the even exist!

[moosecat]

G4s in "every" other part of their product line?

Where's my G4 iBook?

Anyhoo, I'm almost starting to feel bad for MacWhispers. Remember a few months ago when he got plastered by some horribly wrong rumor (iPods, I believe), and then supposedly swore off speculation entirely?

Then a few days later, he started posting speculation again, in dribs and drabs ... Then, by WWDC, he was full-on writing cosmic-level, ridiculous speculation ...

Now we'll get another MacWhispers mea culpa: "Sorry about that whole PowerBook thing guys. Back to just posting raw hardware channel data, folks."

And we'll get to see how long it lasts this time.

[BillyShears]

Originally posted by Foocha
I always thought the G5 PowerBook in production rumor was a little far fetched.

I'm still intrigued to know what was in the mystery "do not open until Monday" boxes - if the even exist!

iSight?

[D*I*S_Frontman]

I sure hope this is a smokescreen or something. I would definitely buy a single proc 1.6-2.0 ghz G5 17" w/ DDR 400 RAM for what they are asking now for a 17", perhaps a bit more.

Unless Moto gets the G4 die-shrunk to specs that allow a faster speed w/o pancake-frying heat, it seems that the "year of the laptop" might be ending a bit prematurely. Wecome "season of the tower"...

I was hoping for perhaps a G5 reworking of the PoerBook line by November, in time for the Christmas rush. Doesn't sound too likely now.

Oh well... I guess that's why they have handles on G5 towers! Maybe I'll get a nice piece of Samsonite luggage to fit the tower and a 20" Cinema display in for remote recording...

[Stella]

MacWhispers feed whatever people want to hear.

they have no creditability whatsoever, they feed us a load of horse s?it!

I'm sad that G5 won't be in powerbooks soon, I was looking forward to that. I assume its just speed bumps and using Motos faster G4s I presume...

[avus]

Our partnership with Motorola is not going away, G4s are in every other part of our product line.

Like Motorola are holding them for a ransom :rolleyes:

I knew that they couldn't introduce the PowerBook G4 15' alongside the G5 by 11/2 hour mark at the keynote - it was one long keynote, anyway. I still hope that it would sport a new 7457 processor so it would be cooler and quieter - I had a PowerBook G4 1GHz, but the fan would be turned on almost automatically a few minutes after a boot, and while it wasn't loud, it did annoy me enough to sell it - but we are talking Motorola, anyway...

[DrGonzo]

Well this is a bummer indeed if true. Why does everyone sound like they won't update the PB later this week though? Does WWDC not run for the entire week? Well i hope the PB is worth it or else i'm WAITING, no way i want a slowass/hot g4 with a g5 on the horizon

[moosecat]

Then again, the failure to include a G5 in a PowerBook doesn't mean there won't be a G5 in any notebook.


... Introducing ... The xBook.

:D

[Stella]

ROTFL

Optimism never dies! :-D

Originally posted by moosecat
Then again, the failure to include a G5 in a PowerBook doesn't mean there won't be a G5 in any notebook.


... Introducing ... The xBook.

:D

[DTphonehome]

Originally posted by moosecat
G4s in "every" other part of their product line?

Where's my G4 iBook?


I think that its reasonable to see G4 iBooks in the near future. Perhaps they will bring the 17" and 15" up to speed with 1.42 Ghz models, a 12" in 1Ghz, all three with L3 cache. The iBooks could have 867-1Ghz G4s with no L3, No slot load, and in 12" and 14" varieties. They could also have lower RAM ceilings. I think there's definitly potential for the G4 in the "pro" and "consumer" laptops, just like the G4 PowerMac and G4 iMac coexisted for a long time.

--DT

[dialectro]

Nice Point.

[MacSlut]

I really want a G5 PowerBook as unrealistic as it may seem with today's 970.

Why?

Imagine...with 9 fans the thing would be a friggin hovercraft!

[O.K.]

I think it is obvious, that Motorola has to come up with something nice and way better than 1G in 17inch for that
upcoming 15.x" Powerbook.

I intrigue to think, what is the "typical 15-inch PB user" for Apple? It will also tell us, what nice things to expect ADDITIONALLY to 12/17" feat.

What do you think?

[greenstork]

This is weak, in my opinon. I was holding out for a 15" AlBook with a G5 but I would never want another G4. I have an easy bake oven at home already (MDD).

It seems like there is a great deal more engineering for a laptop simply due to space and heat considerations but I am still bummed. I guess I expected Apple really sieze this opportunity to surpass Wintel in terms of hardware technology. I should know to be more guarded in my optimism since historically Apple has failed to take this last baby step.

I feel strongly that increasing market share is essential to Apple's future success especially given the surge in inexpensive Linux boxes and the growing trend towards open source. It seems to be as much of a threat to Apple as it is to Wintel. Unfortunately, I don't see Apple that concerned about it but instead, the remain focused on fat margins. It's almost a slap in the face to some of the most loyal users in the computer world.

Sorry about the off topic rant. I do love my computer and think that Apple is great but that doens't mean I don't have my criticisms. It was indeed a great week for Apple, I just wanted to see that one extra step - G5 PB. It seemed like a natural next step.

[GrizzlyHippo]

greenstork


Yep. You've spoken my exact thoughts. Don't know whether I'll buy an updated G4 PB, stick it out with my 366 G3 iBook or plump for a stop-gap top of the range iBook for another 6 months until Apple extracts it's head fully.

Grizzly (very as there's no 970 PB)

[Flowbee]

Originally posted by Stella
MacWhispers feed whatever people want to hear.

they have no creditability whatsoever, they feed us a load of horse s?it!

I'm sad that G5 won't be in powerbooks soon, I was looking forward to that. I assume its just speed bumps and using Motos faster G4s I presume...

MacWhispers is run by the same person as MacMice and DV Forge. He is in the business of selling Mac peripherals. Numerous people have speculated in the past that he makes up his "rumors" only to increase the number of hits to his site (and views of his ads). I think we can be reasonably sure of this now.

Arn, unless you get a % of what he sells, MacWhispers doesn't even belong on Page 2.

[MhzDoesMatter]

That's a little too unlikely for me. Apple just exapanded their portable systems to five physically different models. I doubt they'd introduce another system with a new design and form factor with a radically different design after making the 17 their new pride and glory. I'm also not one to believe that just because the 15inch is their flagship laptop that their gonna intro the G5 in it and not the others.

Why the hell its taken so long to update then? I'm utterly at a loss on that one. It seems like they were holding out for the sake of OS9 but now with all the other peices in play (10.3, quark) I don't know what advantage it would pose to release another Titanium. So if it goes aluminum (also entailing the new features and mobo design,) then I'd imagine it would lose 9booting capability. But a G5? still not likely.

There's currently no real justification for having the 17inch at the same speed as the 15inch but at such a radically different price/performance point. To upgrade the 15 to a g5 leaving the others at a g4 would practically be Anti-Marketing and horrible business.

So odds are they'd have to make the move together. And apple would have to finally give the 12inch back its wooden leg so it can stop hobbling around. It would have to atleast make the move to the gig chips its brothers would be leaving around. Either that or get a bad bleach job and start calling itself the G4 ibook we've all been waiting for.

As far as the G3 ibooks? Am I the only one who thinks that it would be better for them to stay G3's rather than G4's? I mean, that would keep apple with IBM, the more reliable partner. And with the G4's out of the picture, they'll be able to use the higher clocked altivec'ed G3's they've been using to prop up lunchtables in the cafeteria with.


-Hertz

really bored today, compared to yesterday. Very succeptible to RDF, but immune system counterracts relatively quickly.

[pyrotoaster]

Oh goody! More over-heating speedbumped Powerbooks! Wow!

Here are my thoughts:
1. Greg Joswiak may not be telling the truth (there are supposed "Lower Power" 1.2 and 1.4 GHz 970s out there).

2. A new G4 Powerbook wouldn't be surprising (depressing, but not surprising). Hopefully we could break 1 GHz on the 12" (ooohh...)!

3. The iBook will probably go to an IBM processor (likely derived from the G3) instead of the G4.

I think we're in store for new 12, 15 and possibly 17 inch PBs (speedbumps on the 12 and 17, and maybe some L3 Cache for the 12).

[P-Worm]

Wow, the rumors have picked up right where they left off, even after the big day. :cool:

But right now, G5s seem hard pressed to find themselves in laptops. Did you see what they had to do to keep the new PowerMacs under heat control? Taking care of that in a laptop would be something too incredible for me to handle.

P-Worm

[freundt]

Problem:
Who would buy a G4 laptop, knowing that a 970 version will most likely come out in 6 months?

I mean, if we were talking about a simple speed increase, fine. I can see buying a G4 now. But we are talking about a whole new architecture - better memeory, better buss speeds, better ..well, everything. (and by better, I mean super advanced better - Extrodinairly better)

So.. explain to me why would I get excited about a G4 speed bump? Sorry, the Distortion field only works so well.....

_f

[KLFloyd]

I too would like to see a G5 in the PowerBooks. But the reality is they just run too damn hot to put in a laptop right now. Hopefully within the next year to 18 months, which is about my timeframe for updating.

I'd love to go out and buy a new G5 machine, unfortunately as someone who's getting ready to start law school and make their first down-payment on a house I just can't afford to do that. So then I thought about the possibility of buying a G5 iMac when they come out next, and just keeping my old Powerbook, but then it doesn't make a whole lot of sense to go back and fourth between computers. If only Apple would bring back some kind of docking station.

So, I'll wait and I'll save and hopefully we'll see the speedy new G5s in PowerBooks in the near future, until then my 500mhz G4 will just have to do for now. It's served me well and hopefuly will continue to do so for many years to come.

Who knows, maybe between now and then I'll win the lotto and go on an Apple Shopping Spree.

[Abstract]

Originally posted by DTphonehome
I think that its reasonable to see G4 iBooks in the near future. Perhaps they will bring the 17" and 15" up to speed with 1.42 Ghz models, a 12" in 1Ghz, all three with L3 cache. The iBooks could have 867-1Ghz G4s with no L3, No slot load, and in 12" and 14" varieties. They could also have lower RAM ceilings. I think there's definitly potential for the G4 in the "pro" and "consumer" laptops, just like the G4 PowerMac and G4 iMac coexisted for a long time.

Originally posted by avus

I knew that they couldn't introduce the PowerBook G4 15' alongside the G5 by 11/2 hour mark at the keynote - it was one long keynote, anyway. I still hope that it would sport a new 7457 processor so it would be cooler and quieter....

Good point, but instead of a 1.25GHz G4 in the PB's and an 867GHz or 1GHz in the iBook, why couldn't they use a 7457 processor in a new PB? Just because the guy said that Motorola is in Apple's future, it doesn't mean that G4's are going to be in the PB for any longer. In his quote, he did NOT associate the G4 with the PB. He only associated Apple with the G4 and Motorola. The G4 is still being used by Apple --- that's probably what was meant. So the 7457 may go into the Powerbook and the G4 may go into the iBook. This would not contradict the quote, either.

W3rd. :cool:

[the-gator]

this was the case when apple introduced the G4 tower (september 1999), the powerbook remained G3 right through until january 2001! looks like we could be in for quite a wait.

[jouster]

Never mind MacWhispers feeding us a load of Horse****, what about Apple?

Hmmmm..

The year of the laptop so far:

Laptops -

- slight speed bumps
- The 12" and 17" which, while nice and mildly innovative, are hardly exactly a quantum leap.

Towers -

- An order of magnitude change in virtually every aspect.

Not that I'm in any way complaining about the G5 - it sounds awesome - but I think that Jobs's announcement about the YOTL shows that either (a) We read far too much into off the cuff statements or (b) There is no point in trying to analyze what he says because he doesn't mean anything unless he is actually announcing a product.

Hmmm......then what will we talk about?

[stompy]

Originally posted by greenstork
This is weak, in my opinon. I was holding out for a 15" AlBook with a G5 but I would never want another G4. I have an easy bake oven at home already (MDD).

Future G4s (2nd half of this year) should consume much less power than the version in the PowerMac MDD, not to mention the first rev G5 (970).

I guess I expected Apple really sieze this opportunity to surpass Wintel in terms of hardware technology. I should know to be more guarded in my optimism since historically Apple has failed to take this last baby step.


Megahertz myth notwithstanding, with Centrino laptops at 1.2 GHz or so, Apple laptops now look pretty good (to Joe Schmoe) compared to PC laptops. Just MHO, but I'd think Apple was actually relieved when Centrino came out. Apple could catch up to Intel (again, in the average consumers eyes) by shipping a faster G4 PB.




Apple has failed to take this last baby step.


I wouldn't characterize the engineering of a laptop based on a new processor a baby step.

[Sun Baked]

Going by when Motorola "says" a processor is available to the rest of the world and when Apple gets their hand on shippable quantities -- the 7457 should be darn close.

The 7457 should allow a 1GHz bottom end and 1.3GHz top end (or 1.25GHz) -- though this all depends on how much Apple wants to crank them up.

[Stella]

He did announce a product at that time:

- he refers the 12" G4 as the worlds smallest full featured notebook, and,

- the 17" the world's largest laptop.

I think we read far too much into his statement.

Apple create the largest, and smallest portable personal computers, hence, "the year of the laptop".

By what I've read of the 7457 - it'll be coming later this year, perhaps too late to be used in laptops - this year.



Originally posted by jouster
There is no point in trying to analyze what he says because he doesn't mean anything unless he is actually announcing a product.

[the_wallcrawler]

Originally posted by freundt
Problem:
Who would buy a G4 laptop, knowing that a 970 version will most likely come out in 6 months?


not everyone knows that new ones will be out soon. i bought my tibook 400 3 days before the 550 and whatever else ones there were came out. not everyone reads rumor sites.

[arn]

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
Oh goody! More over-heating speedbumped Powerbooks! Wow!

Here are my thoughts:
1. Greg Joswiak may not be telling the truth (there are supposed "Lower Power" 1.2 and 1.4 GHz 970s out there).


Holding out hope? ;)

arn

[prechrchet]

I recently saw an article detailing a "No Mac Left Behind" program by Apple. In this program, Apple is selling 1.6 Ghz motherboards to owners of selected older mac models.

I haven't seen anything like this anywhere else, and I am beginning to think this was either wishful thinking or a prank.

Does anyone know if this is for real or not?


Chet

[Sun Baked]

Originally posted by prechrchet
I recently saw an article detailing a "No Mac Left Behind" program by Apple. In this program, Apple is selling 1.6 Ghz motherboards to owners of selected older mac models.

I haven't seen anything like this anywhere else, and I am beginning to think this was either wishful thinking or a prank.

Does anyone know if this is for real or not?


Chet Think PRANK :D

Though I'd love to get a G5 upgrade for my SE/30 for cheap.

[dorleac]

As you can see, [the G5] is not going in a PowerBook anytime soon. Motorola remains very important to us, but IBM is the one that can take us to the next level."

I was so hoping that a PPC 970 Powerbook would be coming soon, with a Rev B by January. At which point I would buy my laptop.

I think the key term here is "soon". What does "soon" mean to Joswiak? Weeks? Months? A year?

Yes, it's hard to stomach buying a $3000 laptop with a G4 chip that has been around for some time now. I am getting tired of waiting for the G5 version, however.

Of course, once the Rev B G5 laptop comes out and I buy, a revision a few months later might include a replacable OLED screen.

[mjgonz1]

Ok now I'm at a truly confused!! I start Medical School in early August and need a new computer. My school right now has a deal for a 1GHz PowerBook (standard config) with AppleCare for $2099. They only have a few left at this point. It seems like such a good deal for the machine I would be getting. I can only afford to buy one machine and it needs to last me on the scale of 3-4 years. Does anyone have any suggestions on whether to hold out for the newer model and pay more, or take this model and get a good break on the price? What updates are you all expecting to the 15"? Would they be worth the extra $?

[k2k koos]

If true, that isn't good.
I was saving up for a PB (but as I mentioned in the G5 thread, my car ate the money...) too, thinking I might be getting my hands on a g5.....

Apple get rid of Moto please!!!

They are dragging you down, promises promises promises, no result,just another g4 (where is their G5..., died a silent dead?)with no doubt the same stupid problems. It looked so nice, If there is not goign to be a much faster g4 or indeed PB soon, the PB's might loose substantial ground against wintel botebooks, no matter how cool the PB looks!

[gwangung]

Originally posted by greenstork
Unfortunately, I don't see Apple that concerned about it but instead, the remain focused on fat margins. It's almost a slap in the face to some of the most loyal users in the computer world.


A) 30% margins are NOT fat. At least not in the real world; in most manufacturing businesses, you have to have at least 20-30% to survive.

B) I believe the 30% is across the line, for both hardware and software (which typically are much higher anyway).

I think thinking about margins is missing the point....

[greenstork]

Originally posted by stompy


I wouldn't characterize the engineering of a laptop based on a new processor a baby step. [/B]

When I said baby step, I meant from a marketing and strategy perspective, not engineering as noted in my post.

[DTphonehome]

Originally posted by mjgonz1
Ok now I'm at a truly confused!! I start Medical School in early August and need a new computer. My school right now has a deal for a 1GHz PowerBook (standard config) with AppleCare for $2099. They only have a few left at this point. It seems like such a good deal for the machine I would be getting. I can only afford to buy one machine and it needs to last me on the scale of 3-4 years. Does anyone have any suggestions on whether to hold out for the newer model and pay more, or take this model and get a good break on the price? What updates are you all expecting to the 15"? Would they be worth the extra $?

Congrats on med school! Where will you be going? I just got my MCAT score today, and I'm stoked b/c I have a good feeling :D
Anyway, I really don't see a G5 in the PB anytime soon. You saw the G5 tower....nine fans! Hello?! It's going to take an entirely different chip to cram it into a laptop and not have it start nuclear fusion in your lap.
Is it possible there will be a new chip in the PB? I think most definitly...perhaps an all new G4, which still has plenty of life left in it. The iMac won't get a G5 for a while, you can be sure. Anyway, anything you buy now will be superceded in a matter of months, but that's computers for you. But I don't think you're going to see an update like the jump from a Model T to a Corvette (the way some people have been describing it, they think the G4 is worthless and the G5 the greatest computer innovation since the MacII). But I hope that when I start med school next year September, I'll have a sweet new PB G5 :cool:

Best of Luck!

--DT

[greenstork]

Originally posted by gwangung
A) 30% margins are NOT fat. At least not in the real world; in most manufacturing businesses, you have to have at least 20-30% to survive.

B) I believe the 30% is across the line, for both hardware and software (which typically are much higher anyway).

I think thinking about margins is missing the point....

Apple is widely known to have some of the highest margins among hardware makers. They are, above all else, a hardware company. It is where their bread is buttered so to speak. It is why they can stockpile over $4 billion in cash reserves with less than 3% of the market share. It is why they have not allwed others to manufacture their hardware (with some small and obsolete exceptions).

We can go back and forth all day about how a comparably equipped Dell is the same if not more than a Mac but the fact remains that most people spend more on a Mac purchase. They sell luxury machines which command luxury prices. I think this business model is threatened by the growth of Linux and other open source models. And, selfishly, I want to see more software development, more gaming options, and so on.

It is my opinion that this will only happen if they forsake some of these high margins in favor of more market share.

Feel free to throw this post onto some other thread, I know it is not pertinent to the PB discussion, my apologies again.

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by arn
Holding out hope? ;)

arn
Of course!

But at this point I'd really just be thrilled to see a 12" Powerbook with a 1 GHz G4 and some decent (or any) L3 Cache.

[Romanesq]

:rolleyes:

Profit margins I don't believe are the driving force in the development and long overdue release for the Powerbooks.

Sadly, I along with others were much too hyped up with the desire to believe that Apple would break marketing sense and have G5s in both towers and laptops.

I really wanted to believe it.

But without an engineering background, yesterday's release clearly shows that a major rearchitecting would be in order to put this chip into a laptop.

I am now wondering what the powerbook strategy will be in the near term and what we can expect with the overdue 15" alums.

[gbojim]

From what I've been told - this is from a former college mate who is doing embedded systems design so I cannot vouch for this first hand - the problem with using the 970 in a notebook is not heat. The issue is the 970 does not have the same low power modes as the Motorola G4 that allow the chip to run in various energy saving states.

As a result, battery life would be horrible with a 970 in a notebook.

[jbomber]

Here's the thing, I don't see Apple releasing any sort of PB-G5 for quite some time. I'm talking a year or more, so it's probably best not to hold your breath on those :( . BUT what i don't get is why they're dragging their feet with the 15" Aluminum PB. The Titaniums were cool and all, but honestly the scratching and paint chipping was a huge pain in the ass....
Besides, for the sake of consistency you'd figure the 15" would be brought into line with the other configurations.

When do you think it'll be introduced? :confused: I sold my Titanium 3 days before WWDC because i figured that even if Apple couldn't manage to squeeze a G5 processor into a powerbook, they'd at least introduce one with the Aluminum feature set.

[DTphonehome]

Originally posted by gwangung
A) 30% margins are NOT fat. At least not in the real world; in most manufacturing businesses, you have to have at least 20-30% to survive.

B) I believe the 30% is across the line, for both hardware and software (which typically are much higher anyway).

I think thinking about margins is missing the point....

Acc to CNN, the PBs bring in a 20% margin, and the PMs a 30% margin. Apple has pretty respectable numbers in the laptop dept, but they needed a shot in the arm with the PMs. It's a hell of a shot in the arm, and it should make a difference at the end of the year.
And isn't that what matters? To he who complained about profits: We all want to see new Apple stuff, and it ain't going to happen if they just give these things away. They spend hundred of millions on R&D every year, and have to recoup it somewhere. It IS a business, and it will never be a successful company if they don;t make a regular profit. If you want charity, go to Salvation Army. I'm sure they can sell you some nice PCs cheap.

--DT

[betoranaldi]

OK here are my 2 pennys on the situation...

Even though Stevo said it is the year of the laptops i dont think apple will be coming out this year with PB G5 (probably the middle of 2004) (even though i would really like one).

I think that they are going to release PBs with speed increases up to 1.4 ghz with moto new chip so that the pb will run alot cooler and use less power. and as said in an earlier post this is comparable with Intels Centrino Chips.

I have been waiting to buy a Laptop now for a while and once the 15 inch get updated with what i have mentioned above Alumium case and airport extreem and 4X DVD-R i will probably buy why even though i know eventually they will come out with the PB G5.

With computer hardware you know when you buy the item that 6months to a year after buying it there is going to be something bigger and better on the market, its just a chance you take and something you acnoledge... technology advaces quickly.

Also when the g5 is released in the PB its going to run just as hot and the current G4 most likely seeing how there are 9 fans in the tower to keep it cool... there for I welcome a cooler running chip.

So there is my ramblings... my opions...

When the 15" PowerBook Gets updated i most likely buy one, it will be much faster then my current desktop (867 G4 QuickSliver)

-Brian

[herocero]

big boo on macwhispers, if his macmice products are as shody as the rumors, i may hold off . . .
maybe that new moto g4 with the 200mhz bus will go into the new pb? obviously won't compare with a 1Ghz fsb, but then again it is also a laptop (i forget where i read the new moto 200mhz, it is around here somewhere).
also, what happened with those mysterious june 23rd boxes? maybe apple store demoes? anyone know?
maybe that 15"pb wishlist will have to turn into a g5 tower wishlist

hero

[stompy]

Originally posted by greenstork
When I said baby step, I meant from a marketing and strategy perspective, not engineering as noted in my post.

Originally posted by greenstork

It seems like there is a great deal more engineering for a laptop simply due to space and heat considerations but I am still bummed. I guess I expected Apple really sieze this opportunity to surpass Wintel in terms of hardware technology. I should know to be more guarded in my optimism since historically Apple has failed to take this last baby step.

This is what I read, wasn't clear to me that you were talking about marketing.

Cheers!

[Interiority]

CNET - http://www.news.com have a video on their front page - David Coursey interviewing Greg Joswiak. Right at the end, he states that the G5 won't be going in a PowerBook any time soon...

[KLFloyd]

Originally posted by mjgonz1
Ok now I'm at a truly confused I start Medical School in early August and need a new computer. My school right now has a deal for a 1GHz PowerBook (standard config) with AppleCare for $2099. They only have a few left at this point. It seems like such a good deal for the machine I would be getting. I can only afford to buy one machine and it needs to last me on the scale of 3-4 years. Does anyone have any suggestions on whether to hold out for the newer model and pay more, or take this model and get a good break on the price? What updates are you all expecting to the 15"? Would they be worth the extra $?

Well, you're really only saving $200 on the price of the machine. I guess it depends on what the Apple Care is worth for you. I personally have never bought an Apple Care warranty and been just fine. I figure that nearly 99% of all computer problems are software related. And if a computer is going to have a hardware related failure, chances are it's going to happen either in your first year of use or way later down the road from normal wear and tear. (Assuming you take proper care of it.)

If you feel comfortable trouble shooting software issues, then I think the Apple Care protection plan is a waste of money.

Now, having said that...chances are the only upgrades you're going to see to the 15" powerbooks in the near further are a slight processor speed boost (around 1.2 or maybe slightly higher) and the added features of the 17 and 12" powerbooks (ie: aluminum body, backlit keyboard, etc...)

If you're looking to save some money, you need to evaluate your actual needs. Maybe an iBook will suit your needs. I personally have found them to be much more "sturdy" than the PowerBooks and an take more wear and tear. If an iBook would do it could save you a ton of money (especially if you can wait a few months to buy until potential upgrades) and it's not as huge a deal as if it gets lost.

Anyway, just my two cents, good luck with your decision!

[stompy]

Originally posted by Interiority
CNET - http://www.news.com have a video on their front page - David Coursey interviewing Greg Joswiak. Right at the end, he states that the G5 won't be going in a PowerBook any time soon...

This reminds me of Apple's statements pre-MWNY 2001, when FP iMac rumors abounded. It would appear that Apple still has some time to go before a PB G5, and they don't want rumors dampening sales of current (and perhaps next rev) PBs.

[Makosuke]

I'm really surprised about how many people were holding out hope that there would be 970s in PowerBooks, and how many still seem to think that it was some evil Apple "decision" to keep the portables on G4s.

I have so far not seen a single shred of concrete evidence in IBM's released materials that made me think the 970s are anywhere near ready for a laptop. They're brand new, they're relatively power-hungry, and most of all (as said in this thread already), they don't have power management features yet. It's not marketing, it's not Apple's fault, they're just not mobile-ready yet.

I'm sure Apple's rarin' to stick G5s in laptops, and I'm sure IBM is working hard at getting them ready for that. But it just seems unreasonable to believe, expect, or demand that they're going to be ready any time soon, or that Apple can do anything they're not already doing to make them ready.

I personally wouldn't have any qualms about buying a G4 laptop at this point, and if Apple kicks the speeds up to the 1.2Ghz range, even better. A G4 is still an impressively speedly laptop chip, even when compared to "faster" (Ghz) mobile Pentium chips. I'd love a G5 PB as much as the next guy, but I'd be honestly surprised to see one any sooner that MWSF, if then.

Heck, I wouldn't even feel that bad about buying aa 1Ghz+ G3 iBook if it were cheap enough, though it'd be nice to see G4s or something similar in them.

[QCassidy352]

Originally posted by DTphonehome
I think that its reasonable to see G4 iBooks in the near future. Perhaps they will bring the 17" and 15" up to speed with 1.42 Ghz models, a 12" in 1Ghz, all three with L3 cache. The iBooks could have 867-1Ghz G4s with no L3, No slot load, and in 12" and 14" varieties. They could also have lower RAM ceilings. I think there's definitly potential for the G4 in the "pro" and "consumer" laptops, just like the G4 PowerMac and G4 iMac coexisted for a long time.

--DT

noooo, please don't put G4s in the ibooks!! Give us the IBM Gobi processors at 1.2 Ghz!!! (but sadly, that will not happen as long as the powerbooks have G4s... stupid powerbooks. :mad: )

[patmcfar8]

I couldn't have said it any better myself, Makosuke!

I cannot believe the number of "Mac fans" that are whining about the lack of a G5 PB! IT JUST ISN'T POSSIBLE... yet.

It is rather interesting that it's taken Apple so long to update the 15", but I don't think they're waiting for the G5 to be mobile ready.

Wonder what the hold up could be...?

No, really, anybody?

[morbit]

Mokosuke is right. The ppc970 used in powermac very likely does not have powermanagement features yet. But still I tend to think that ppc970 is designed to work in laptop. Some technical facts that support my optimism.

The LATEST IBM presentation [http://amigaworld.net/modules/news/article.php?storyid=592] informs us, that the planned power consumtion of the chip is more or less met in actual silicon. So ppc970 at the current manufacturing process consumes 20w@1Ghz. This is as much as Mot ppc7455 at the same clock which is currently used in the top of the line powerbooks [http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/MPC7455FACT.pdf]

More importantly, according to the IBM presentation the chip will be optimized to have a wide voltage/Hz operability band. So the cpu MHz is changed and consequently power consumtion also changes on demand. So once again, we have opportunity to be on bar with latest laptop cpus from INTEL (speedstep) and AMD (power-now). For example, INTEL Banias, a Centrino CPU consumes max. 24W@1,6MHz but only 1W average thanks to Speedstep and other power management tech. [http://www.anandtech.com/mobile/showdoc.html?i=1800].

Interestingly, the same was rumored a while ago on Powerpage [http://www.powerpage.org/cgi-bin/WebObjects/powerpage.woa/wa/story?newsID=10087]. They reported that technology called "variable bus timing" is in works in Apple labs.

Mot ppc7457 at higher than 1ghz is not more power efficient than ppc7455. At 1,3Ghz it consumes also about 20 W [http://e-www.motorola.com/brdata/PDFDB/docs/MPC7457EC.pdf].

To sum up, we saw yesterday that apple and ibm are really committed to develop the chip. So i would not be surprised to see ppc970 chip with advanced power management in apple laptop very soon. But it is very likely that next revision is mot ppc7457 based (= zero cost on R&D)

[centauratlas]

I keep seeing it: "it needs 9 fans to keep it cool." From what I read on Apple's site, it does NOT *need* 9 fans.

They *use* 9 fans at really low speeds to keep the noise way down (think of the so-called "wind-tunnel Macs" last year) whereas 1 fan at a higher speed would work.

A lot of this has to do with the clocking of the chip (the high speeds generate lots of heat), whereas at, say, 1.2Ghz it would be a lot cooler.

[centauratlas]

If they stick with the G4 in the PB, then that means the iBook will keep the G3. I can't see them making the iBook and PB that close - e.g. both with G4s. That would blur the product line distinction.

I don't need a portable, but it would be really nice to have with AirPort Extreme to go around the house, so I will be waiting for a 15" updated with a G5...I can wait a year if I need to. It isn't a requirement, but something that would be nice.

[mcm]

Of course I'd like a G5 PowerBook and I'm sad that we're not seeing one soon.

But I'm just holding out for an updated 15" -- any updated 15" -- I don't care if its a G4. Just give me something that's spec'd like the 17" -- aluminum, backlit kb, bluetooth(!!!!), AE(!!!!). If they can bump the G4 up a bit to 1.2 -- that's gravy.

Seriously... When're the new 15s coming?

[MacBoyX]

Let's not forget a few things here...

1. There is still the MacWorld Creative Expo, where Apple jumped in with Phil doing a keynote at the 11th hour.

2. Anyone who belived that Apple would announce the PM and PB at the same time ever again should really stop and think abt it...first of all IF the G5 could go into a PB (I DOUBT IT CAN RIGHT NOW), release the PB and the PM at the same time would hurt PM sales big time.

3. PB's weren't so bad 2 days ago, and they are not bad now. Just as the G3 is hardly a crappy or antiquated chip. Just becasue something new comes out, doesn't make everything else obsolete.

4. Just becasuse apple announces the G5 doesn't mean every other product has to change... I personally don't see a G4 in an iBook ever, I see the GOBI being labled something else and kept in there especially with IBM Making them).

5. This has been a complaint of mine forever... APPLE HAS PRODUCT LINES GEARED TOWARD DIFFERENT CONSUMERS. This means as much as we'd like it, we don't need G5's in ever bloody model. We have too many G4's in the product line now as it is. I mean an iMac with a processor that is in a PowerMac? BOY DOES THAT BLUR THE LINES!

iBooks do not need a G4. They are cheap and durable and living happy with the G3.
iMacs do not need G5's, and truthfully rignt now neither do PB's. Again a G5 PB would REALLY HURT PM Sales...

My predictions (since they are probably based on as much information as MacWhispers (i.e., NONE) ) are as follows...

MacCentral EXPO...a 15" AlBook with most likely speed bumps.

SHORTLY the GOBI chip renamed the G4 (Apple already showed us names are not tied to chip models anymore) with higher bandwidths in iMacs, and iBooks and eventually a G5 PB.

Just my opinion and i am probably wrong... sorry for the length...had alot to get off my STEM:)

Macboyx

[CheekyGit]

Originally posted by MacSlut
I really want a G5 PowerBook as unrealistic as it may seem with today's 970.

Why?

Imagine...with 9 fans the thing would be a friggin hovercraft!

Introducing the new HoverBook.... the first 17" Powerbook to ride on a cushion of air and less than 30 minutes of battery life (if there is room left over for a battery). Maybe it will have an aluminum skirt around it. Oh wait....scratch that. That will kill the "revolutionary" 1 inch thick laptop design.

Just bring back the Pismo design back. The "thinner is better" concept is getting old.

It looks like I'll saving more of my pennies 4-5 years down the line for Apple to figure out a way to put a G5 in the PowerBook line.

Don't worry...good ol' Jonathan Ive (Design God) will find a way. :rolleyes:

CheekyGit :D

[tmornini]

"Our partnership with Motorola is not going away, G4s are in every other part of our product line. As you can see, [the G5] is not going in a PowerBook anytime soon. Motorola remains very important to us, but IBM is the one that can take us to the next level."

Is it just me, or did he just CONFIRM that an IBM processor will be replacing the Motorola G4 in the next PowerBook? Perhaps the "G3 with Altivec" we've heard about?

He clearly says:

The G5 won't be there soon.
IBM can take us to the next level

He doesn't say:

The next PowerBook will have a G4

I think that's a rather artfully worded statement that he won't need to retract anytime soon. :-)

[zimv20]

Originally posted by MacBoyX


SHORTLY the GOBI chip renamed the G4 (Apple already showed us names are not tied to chip models anymore) with higher bandwidths in iMacs, and iBooks and eventually a G5 PB.


that's an interesting thought. maybe if they added a vector processing unit to it...

[gwangung]

Originally posted by greenstork
Apple is widely known to have some of the highest margins among hardware makers.

Yes, and they're the only ones who are doing R&D on both hardware and software.

You're mixing metrics here and that's where you're misleading yourself on.

And to repeat...Apple's margins are NOT that high compared to other manufacturing industries (nor are they compared to the software industry). Complaining about margins completely miss the point and getting to be bogus in the extreme.

[cgc]

Wasn't IBM incorporating Altivec into the next generation G3 (GX?)? That should boost the iBook at least...

(edit: read some posts before mine and it seems like the "Gobi" G3 was already mentioned a gazillion times...oh well...)

[DrGonzo]

I believe there are a lot of people looking to upgrade to a new PB, me being one of them. Though there's really no point in my mind to buy a 1.25g/1.4g if something like the G5 or something higher speed is coming in 6-12mos (assuming it does), when i can just buy a 1g now for fairly cheap, though i won't get all the newest "features". I don't know, i hate being left out on the dark when I'm looking to spend 2000-3000$ on a laptop, i wish there was some sort of roadmap or announcement about future model(s) so i could decide what to do, rather than sit on my thumb and HOPE that apple releases something worthy. I've never been much of a mac user, though i want to get a laptop, right now everything is in major flux i want some direction or insight!

[nagromme]

Everyone thinks Apple is stupid for not having a G5 PowerBook. It may be, though, despite our wishful thinking (mine too!), that a G5 portable is just not possible! Yet.

In that case, remember that PBG4s are still competitive--and WILL keep getting faster even without a G5.

The next PBG4 may not be a half bad deal. Especially the 15" model.

[pianojoe]

Of course, Apple will not comment negatively on their relationship with Motorola as long as they're still business partners.

Now, building the fastest desktop computer in the world is one thing. Selling mediocre-performance laptops is another. I think they should use the lower clocked yields of the 970 in laptops ASAP:

iBook: 1 GHz, 1.2 GHz 970
PowerBook: 1.4 GHz, 1.6 GHz 970
iMac: 1.2 GHz, 1.4 GHz 970
PowerMac: 1.6 GHz, 1.8 GHz, 2x2 GHz 970

This way everybody will benefit from the eagerly anticipated performance gains of the new chip. You'll still have a noticable gap between consumer and pro models.
And: people just love talking Megahertz. No more needing to explain why my 12" PB is faster than an iBook most of the time even though the clock speed is lower".

[greg6028]

I can't recall if Steve has a problem with MacWorld in New York - but if he doesn't, we will see a new 15" G4 PowerBook next month. I believe the G5 is TOO HOT yet for a powerbook. When the 3 ghz G5 desktop come out next year, THEN we will see the G5 PowerBook.
This is my guess...

[VIREBEL661]

Originally posted by prechrchet
I recently saw an article detailing a "No Mac Left Behind" program by Apple. In this program, Apple is selling 1.6 Ghz motherboards to owners of selected older mac models.

I haven't seen anything like this anywhere else, and I am beginning to think this was either wishful thinking or a prank.

Does anyone know if this is for real or not?


Chet

Not sure, but here's an article link... Tried posting a thread on this... Looks promising - whaddya think?

http://www.lowendmac.com/rumormill/03/0623.html

[VIREBEL661]

The G4 (and new G3's) are very good laptop processors, not far off from wintel... LOVE to see a 970 though!!!

[Flowbee]

You know, I'm still perfectly happy with my G3/400 Pismo. However, that may change if too many of Panther's features don't work well on it (especially given the lack of Quartz on the Pismo). I hope Panther will run reasonably well without Quartz.

[rjwill246]

Macbidouille stated weeks ago that the G5 was in production and the tower would be announced at WWDC. Remember the flack they got from here, mostly trolls but not always??? ... Aiden Shaw sure does, which reminds me that he has been very silent recently... well, those opinions were way way off and MacBidouille was spot on– AND they predicted G5 PBs were in the works but not until later this year or early next. They are VERY likely to be right on this, too.

[Nermal]

Sorry if someone else has posted this (I don't have time to read through the whole thread at the moment), but keep in mind that the first G4 PowerBook came 16 months after the first G4 Power Mac. On the other hand, both the G3 PowerBook and G3 Power Mac came out in the same month (same day?).

[CheekyGit]

Originally posted by Flowbee
You know, I'm still perfectly happy with my G3/400 Pismo. However, that may change if too many of Panther's features don't work well on it (especially given the lack of Quartz on the Pismo). I hope Panther will run reasonably well without Quartz.

Maybe if some pro-Mac company would give the Lombard/WallStreet/Pismo users to video upgrade then we could fully utilize Quartz Extreme.

There are already processor, media drive and memory upgrades for the Lombard/WallStreet/Pismo....just no video.

I would pay good money to upgrade my Pismo without having buy an entirely new system.

[zimv20]

Originally posted by VIREBEL661

http://www.lowendmac.com/rumormill/03/0623.html

i'm skeptical.

[GeneR]

Maybe they should give this Japanese modder some work making his own powerbook with the new G5 Tower...

Wired article on Zero-Halliburton ibook (http://www.wired.com/news/mac/0,2125,56085,00.html#)

[P-Worm]

The thing is, Apple should look into getting the G5 into all of the computers, not just the "Power" models. Think, this is a 64bit processor and they should be looking to make the jump to 64 bits just like the jump to OS X. The sooner they are all 64 bit, the better software that could use it will get.

Now does this have to happen all at once? Of course not. Products like the iBook and the iMac are not geared toward software of that calibur. But to me, it seems that keeping the product line broken up between 32 bit and 64 bit seems like a bad idea.

P-Worm

[VIREBEL661]

Originally posted by zimv20
i'm skeptical.

Yeah, seems like a LOT of R & D for legacy stuff.... Real limited market prolly...

[Flowbee]

Originally posted by CheekyGit
Maybe if some pro-Mac company would give the Lombard/WallStreet/Pismo users to video upgrade then we could fully utilize Quartz Extreme.

There are already processor, media drive and memory upgrades for the Lombard/WallStreet/Pismo....just no video.

I would pay good money to upgrade my Pismo without having buy an entirely new system.

I'd be second in line (right behind you).

[elo]

I've said all this before, but apparently no one listened:

1. The Gobi G3 has vector processing already. It's a great chip and perfect for the iBook.

2. The G5 PowerBook is a year away at an absolute minimum. The (portable) chip is not ready, and Apple will have to design a completely new motherboard when it is ready. This is just about the most difficult design work Apple does, because of the space and heat issues.

3. If you didn't notice, far more than the G5 chip distinguishes the new tower from its predecessor. Were Apple to release a PowerBook with a new chip, but no other internal improvements to accommodate it (even if this were possible), the speed improvement would be negligable. Like the tower, the G5 PowerBook must be an entirely different machine.

4. Apple would never make a move this major without a complete redesign of the external case. The G5 PowerBooks won't look like the G4 PowerBooks. (Expect grating!)

5. While we were lagging hugely behind Intel-based desktops, we are arguably ahead of Intel-based notebooks, even in speed. Given the other strengths of the G4 PowerBook, there simply isn't a need to have something brand new right now.

6. In marketing, it is essential to keep people focused on the news you want them to remember. That explains the "year of the notebook" quote (it kept people talking until the G5 tower was ready), and it explains why Apple *cannot* release G5 PowerBook in the near future. For the moment, the tower must own the stage.

elo

[MacBoyX]

Originally posted by zimv20
that's an interesting thought. maybe if they added a vector processing unit to it...

The GOBI does have AltiVec.

That's what makes it a GOBI :)

MacBoyX

[jimthorn]

Originally posted by elo
6. In marketing, it is essential to keep people focused on the news you want them to remember. That explains the "year of the notebook" quote (it kept people talking until the G5 tower was ready), and it explains why Apple *cannot* release G5 PowerBook in the near future. For the moment, the tower must own the stage.

Exactly! It was Steve's way of spinning "We know our PowerMacs are still really slow".

[zimv20]

Originally posted by MacBoyX
The GOBI does have AltiVec.

That's what makes it a GOBI :)


erp. i read "gobi" and thought "sahara."

anyway, i think it would be a clever (if not dodgy) marketing move to label the gobi "g4," thus freeing themselves of the problem of having g3s w/ higher clockspeeds than g4s.

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by MacBoyX
SHORTLY the GOBI chip renamed the G4 (Apple already showed us names are not tied to chip models anymore) with higher bandwidths in iMacs, and iBooks and eventually a G5 PB.

Also posted by MacBoyX
The GOBI does have AltiVec.

That's what makes it a GOBI :)

MacBoyX
The GOBI doesn't have an AltiVec unit. The processor is a G3 derivative, not G4.

You're probably thinking of the "Mojave" G3, which may or may not be a member of the GOBI family. The Mojave is supposed to have an AltiVec unit, thus being the G3 + AltiVec IBM processor.

[stompy]

Originally posted by zimv20
i'm skeptical.

Low end mac often satarizes the most outrageous rumors. There is something to taking a rumor too seriously. (Maybe you were being sarcastic as well?)

Anything by 'Anne Onymus' on low end mac is intended as a joke.

[cb911]

ok, the PowerBooks need a new proc very soon. the PowerBooks and PowerMacs are Apple's Pro line.

from the MacCentral article:
Apple's renewed relationship with IBM doesn't mean that Motorola will be going away anytime soon. In fact, Apple will keep one G4-based configuration around for as long as the market demands. The G4 model will sell for $1299 directly from Apple.

it does say that Apple will keep one G4 based configuration, as long as the market demands, and links this to the G4 PowerMac that Apple are still selling. Also, at the Apple Store they say about the PowerMac G4 "supports both Mac OS 9 and Mac OS X." i guess this means that there is still a very small market for a G4 that will boot OS 9.

i guess that the iMacs and iBooks will have to stay 32-bit for a while, so this must mean that there will be a 32 & 64-bit versions of Panther, right? that will also mean that all software will have to come with an update so that they are all optimized for the G5 PM's.

the PB's need a new proc, but isn't the 7455 maxed out now at 1GHz? isn't this the highest clock speed it can go? and if the 7457 will only be available later this year, then what will they do with the PB's? i reckon that a 970 PowerBook will be here sooner than we think.


and after all that ranting, i still don't know what to think!:mad: :rolleyes:

[Lord Bodak]

I guess I'm one of the few who isn't really surprised or upset by this. I am disappointed that they didn't give the PowerBooks a speed bump-- I'm looking at the 12" and I would love to see it bumped to 1 GHz, given some L3 cache, and maybe given a little more onboard RAM to kick the ceiling up a little.

But G5 PowerBooks are a long way away. I want a 12" G4 that I know will work well for a long while (especially if Panther offers a performance increase like the rumors say it will), and then start saving for a Rev B G5 desktop.

[DharvaBinky]

Well... here's where I'm sitting.

I'm writing this from a Dell Latitude c800, which was their first series of P4 notebooks. It clocks at 1.6GHz. While it's probably only just as fast as a 1GHz G4, your average consumer isn't aware of that... 1.6 is 60% "more" than 1.0, right? ;)

This is my work machine, and we upgrade pretty often (once every 18 months or so)... I've got 3 choices now...

a) The Pentium4-M is clocking up to 2.6GHz with a 533MHz Front Side bus and other associated faciness (DDR, etc).

b) The Pentium M (centrino/banias/whatever) is clocking at 1.7GHz with a 400MHz FSB and other associated faciness (DDR, very low power).

c) The PowerBook is clocking at 1.0GHz with a 133MHz FSB and little associated fanciness (SDR, P4 levels of heat).

Intel has created an interesting situation for themselves, they've busted their own MHz myth! The Pentium M (centrino) is a lot *faster* CLOCK FOR CLOCK than a similarly clocked P4-M. The benchmarks I've read say that a 1.6GHz centrino performs like a 2.4GHz P4-M!!!

So... given this... and the time frame of our purchase... We'd be *fools* to buy Powerbooks. And really, unless you were a "Final Cut Pro on the Airplane" kind of guy, no one should buy the things.

I can't see Apple pulling off another Generation of G4s in Powerbooks and keep users happy. If they "overclock" them (I don't wanna start the eternal debate about overclocked g4s with 166MHz FSB, though) it'll create unreasonable amounts of heat, so they can't do that. they *can't* really wait until the 7457 comes out... the 15" needs an update *now*!

I think low clock G5s are there only solution realistically! It would reduce heat, enhance performance, and keep *me* happy. ;)

As for my purchase? It looks as if I'm going to be getting a Centrino book for my new system in a few weeks. But as soon as Apple comes out with a G5 book... I'll buy one for myself.

Until then... guess I'll be a Maclovin' boy in a wintel world.

Dharvabinky

[Lord Bodak]

I don't normally run bleeding edge hardware. Heck, my home machine is a Pentium 200 I started college with in 1997 (running Linux).

At work I have a 1.8 GHz P4 desktop running XP Pro. Multiple times each day I find myself wishing I was on my 200 MHz Linux box because it's more responsive.

The higher clock speed just doesn't justify running yet another slow, unstable Microsoft OS, in my opinion.

Give me a portable G4 any day!

[vancenase]

i'm in the same boat as you Dharvabinky .. but i have to pay for mine! the advantage for me going with a PB vs. wintel is that X11 is 'directly' available for me (vs. restarting into a flavor of linux under wintel).

i need unix for work ... period. so OS X is my new best friend!

in the process of converting from pc to apple,
d

[ogun7]

Right now, the G5's are too hot to spoon into PowerBooks. After IBM goes to a 90nm process, then we will see G5 laptops.

[elo]

DharvaBinky, I, too am going to pick up a Centrino notebook this time around, for some of the reasons you stated. It would indeed be great for Apple to come out with a G5 PowerBook, and quite possibly necessary to keep many people happy. Nevertheless, it is not currently possible (see my earlier post) and won't be in the near future.

Like you, I'll be more than happy to return to Apple when the G5 PowerBook is ready.

elo

[MhzDoesMatter]

Does anyone listen to anyone else here?

It's funny. It's not that I'm so adamant about my views on the issue, which is about as negative as they come, but why does it seem that no one who proclaims that 970 pb are set to go at the next expo or conference actually takes into consideration the comments of those who think its highly unlikely, those who think it's highly impossible notwithstanding.

Personally, even if I was possessed with a sense optimism far larger than my diaphragm, I would have to give some pause to the general thoughts about heat production, power consumption, product engineering, supply availability, manufacturing ability, and other TECHNICAL obstacles that may stand in the way of a 970 powerbook for the time being.

Heavens forbid we look at any of that stuff rather than what some exec didn't say exactly and what he could have meant by that.

-Hertz

Quite cranky after realizing I would be returning to school with a G5 according to my shipping time.

[Nebrie]

Originally posted by greenstork
Apple is widely known to have some of the highest margins among hardware makers. They are, above all else, a hardware company. It is where their bread is buttered so to speak. It is why they can stockpile over $4 billion in cash reserves with less than 3% of the market share. It is why they have not allwed others to manufacture their hardware (with some small and obsolete exceptions).

We can go back and forth all day about how a comparably equipped Dell is the same if not more than a Mac but the fact remains that most people spend more on a Mac purchase. They sell luxury machines which command luxury prices. I think this business model is threatened by the growth of Linux and other open source models. And, selfishly, I want to see more software development, more gaming options, and so on.

It is my opinion that this will only happen if they forsake some of these high margins in favor of more market share.

Feel free to throw this post onto some other thread, I know it is not pertinent to the PB discussion, my apologies again.

They also have the highest cost of all the computer manufacturers. Dell just has to throw up a website, hire some monkeys for support and to put the boxes together and that's it. It can take the rest of it's profit margin to the bank. Apple has to use that profit margin for actual innovation and maintaining a retail presence which is the most expensive of all.

[ktlx]

Originally posted by rjwill246
well, those opinions were way way off and MacBidouille was spot on– AND they predicted G5 PBs were in the works but not until later this year or early next. They are VERY likely to be right on this, too.

I went back and read what MacB predicted. Contrary to what some have said, MacB only got about half of what they predicted correct. They missed the shipping dates and the processor speeds. The only things they got right were the actual announcement being at WWDC and the specs for using DDR 400, USB 2.0, AGP 8x and Hypertransport.

That is not all that impressive to me. I have absolutely zero inside information and I predicted that when Apple released a PowerMac with a PPC 970 in it, it would use dual channel DDR 400, USB 2.0, AGP 8x and Hypertransport. Why? Because if you are going to design a motherboard around the PPC 970 in the spring of 2003, those are the technologies you need to have on the board.

[nickgold]

The folks who are saying the PowerBook line NEEDS to be upgraded to G5, or we're doooooomed...

GET A CLUE!

G4s are totally competitive portable chips, get with it. Apple is not pressed to haphazardly chuck G5s into laptops, they can afford to wait and do it right. G4s will keep improving, a little.

Some of the prices on PowerBooks are the best deals Apple has ever had. You need a G4 iBook? GET A 12" PB AND SHUT UP ALREADY -- THEY ARE A GOOD FREAKING DEAL. Especially since the BIG price break, sheesh!

Trolls, I banish thee to the innermost depths of the pits of heck! As they say in Russia, k-chyortu na sankach! BEGONE!

[iGeek]

"G4s are in every other part of our product line."

Does this mean G4 iBooks soon? He knows about them and forgot that they hadn't been released, maybe? Just my random musings...

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by iGeek
"G4s are in every other part of our product line."

Does this mean G4 iBooks soon? He knows about them and forgot that they hadn't been released, maybe? Just my random musings...
Probably not. The iBooks are generally rumored to go to a G3-derivative chip being produced by IBM. The "GOBI".

From there it gets even more complicated. There are other rumors of a GOBI Chip with an added AltiVec unit, "Mojave".

The bottom line is that the G4 isn't expected to head into the iBook.

[HasanDaddy]

What are the chances of a Dual 17" PowerBook (G4 or 970) ???

[pyrotoaster]

Originally posted by HasanDaddy
What are the chances of a Dual 17" PowerBook (G4 or 970) ???
None whatsoever.

Currently it just can't be done.
Dual processors take up too much room, produce too much heat, and require too much power (unless you're okay with a two and a half hour battery life) to even be considered for a Powerbook right now.

[nydoofus]

As a soon to be switcher, i'm disappointed with this news. I too have been waiting a few months, hoping for a G5 based 15in PB. If this ends up being a merely a speed bump, i'm just going to buy a TiBook and wait. However, if they are using the newer Motorola G4's, there might be a gain in battery life, which would be a good thing, keeping Apple close to the Intel Centrino's until they can unleash the G5. I for one, wouldn't mind extra battery life since 1GHz is fast enough for me. (writing this on a Dell Inspiron 700Mhz, fast enough for me)

[jaison13]

more do do things more effeciently and quietly and not because of the heat?? i thought the 970 ran cooler than the moto chip.

i have an imac and a g3 lapttop that i still can do everything i need. as much as i like the new tower my powerbook needs updated more. i'm holding out for a 17" G5 with a 2ghz chip.

i was actually more excited about aall the osx.3 upgrades than i was about the desktop. i bought a isight but can only use it on my imac.

i'm patient and can wait a year for a new PB but it won't be easy.

[mrdeep]

I think that by that entire "G4s are in every other part of our product line." thing may have meant that they had a laptop (powerbook), all-in-one computer (emac & imac), and a workstation/desktop/big computer (powermac g4) that all used g4s.

I was really hoping for a g5 notebook, but I also doubted it would happen. It doesn't really matter for me though, I wouldn't have been able to afford one, and would have probably spent a good deal of time wishing I had one. I guess my grand switch will just have to wait.

And as for people who argue that the g4 is good enough for a portable, it really isn't. I can get a laptop with a 3ghz intel processor (it would be about 9 lbs, 16" screen with about 2 hours of battery life ... not bad), and apple really doesn't have anything to compete with this. Anyways, I hate using my desktop because I'm confined to the desk form-factor, and I don't enjoy my laptop as much as I could because it isn't powerfull enough.

I think that "year of the laptop" thing may have been said without much basis, but they might take that idea up next year (based on the response it got), and make it the true year of the laptop by introducing g5 laptops in january/february.

I also read something about moto having 3ghz g4s, apple may start using those in laptops and beat intel at its own game, after all, a "3ghz g4" sounds _much_ better than "1.8ghz pentium-m"

And the dreamer inside of me thinks that dual processors is possible, especially with a 17" powerbook, and if they make it 1.2" thick like they did with the 12" powerbook.

mmm... my first post, had to make it extra long :-)

[rjwill246]

Originally posted by ktlx
I went back and read what MacB predicted. Contrary to what some have said, MacB only got about half of what they predicted correct.

Oh PLEEEEEEZE! That is absolutley 'infra dig mate.' Get a grip! neither you ( since I searched your postings for your predictions) nor anyone else came vaguely as close. And MacBidouille, if not totally correct came closer and more accurately than any one else to the final result. Save them, there were NO predictions of this accuracy. If you want 100% accuracy, you're not gonna get it! but for cryin' out loud give credit where it is due- and be magnanimous in your singularly non-contibutary state. After all, how were your predicitions?? and if there weren't any- and there weren't- this nitpicking is most unreasonable.
Congrats, MacBidouille and a rapid "up yours" to your detractors!!! And, let's hope they do this well next time... 'cause no one else came within a 'coo-ee' of their predicitions. For within reason, they nailed it!!!

[Sol]

Originally posted by greenstork
It seems like there is a great deal more engineering for a laptop simply due to space and heat considerations but I am still bummed.

Judging from the pictures of the G5 PowerMacs insides it seems like Motorola is currently better than IBM at keeping mobile CPU temperatures to reasonable levels. It seems that for now, every G5 processor needs its own fan for cooling.

Having said that, dedicated fans may be exceptional system design on Apple's part. Perhaps in the future fans in the computer would be controlled & powered via USB or FireWire.

Anyway, G4 PowerBook upgrades to faster G4s would be welcomed by most people. More speed never hurts those sales.

[neutrino23]

I was in the camp of those hoping for a G5 PB but not thinking they would really come out at WWDC.

We don't have enough public, factual information to really judge if it is possible to put a G5 in a PB or not.

The little tidbits (20W @1.2GHz for example) are far too meager make a judgement on.

I think that much of the excitement about a possible G5 PB coming out yesterday was based on pent up need and pent up demand. It is part of the popular imagination that this would be the coolest thing on the planet. It would be soooo wonderful to have a 15 inch portable with all the ports and features of the Al PBs and with speed two times faster than my G4 tower.

Finally, there is the conundrum of the missing 15 inch PB update. The 15 inch Ti hasn't changed in nearly 8 months. We are coming up on one year without a change. That also feeds people's expectation that some kind of new PB will come soon.

Without considering the accuracy of any of the rumor sites, the only really hard information we have is the article in the Taiwanese trades newspaper stating that some company (Compal?) had the contract to manufacture a 15.4" PB for Apple and that they would ship in the second half of the year. Currently the screen size is 15.2" so this implies that some sort of new 15" PB will be available in the next six months and more likely in the next three months. No clue what the CPU will be.

I am with the others who were disappointed that no new PB was announced. I am funded and decided and just waiting for the product to ship.

[analogkid]

Originally posted by Sun Baked
Think PRANK :D

Though I'd love to get a G5 upgrade for my SE/30 for cheap.

I was able to get 128mb of ram to work in my SE-30, that was kind of cool...
but really i want a G5 for my WALLSTREET!

[MacFan26]

Just out of curiosity, what would be so bad about having a few more fans on a laptop? Is it space issues? If the G5 tower has less than half the noise of the G4 tower, then couldn't they just put appropriate fans in a laptop and have a slightly noisier laptop? I apologize if this is a ridiculous question, I'm not that familiar with hardware engineering.

[giffut]

It makes much more sense to decentralize fans and therefore optimize cooling issues beforehand than having one atomic powered uberfan to destroy your whole household either by wind speed, killing sounds or water floods (thinking of water cooling in that perspective).

The case design of the new G5 is meant to last some time, that´s one major reason for the very conservative approach in terms of heat managment. Actually the G5/IBM 970 consumes less energy then the latest (and overclocked to get there, remember) 1.42Ghz Motorola chips.

And remember: The 1.2Ghz G5/IBM 970 variant consumes 3Watt less than the Motoroloa G4 1Ghz found in the PB17. So where are the heat issues here?

All the price cuts on the mobile machines seriously indicate that there is something going on. Remember the talks about task sensitive energy managment mainboards with hypertransport?

We might see a revamp including all of them, and with no more Motorola. It just doesn´t make sense anymore to stick with them.

[magusv]

Here's a screenshot of the new powerbook:

http://a1872.g.akamai.net/7/1872/51/199ed5b162ea44/www.apple.com/r/store/images/isight-400xlearnmore062303.jpg

Some capricious apple employees seem to agree.

[LVzardoz]

Originally posted by gbojim
From what I've been told - the problem with using the 970 in a notebook is not heat. The issue is the 970 does not have the same low power modes as the Motorola G4 that allow the chip to run in various energy saving states.

As a result, battery life would be horrible with a 970 in a notebook.

So why not "Think Different" and bring out a "DeskNote" 970 machine? When is the last time MOST people who own notebooks actually used them without being plugged in?

Frankly, I love portability but I rarely need to be that far away from an AC outlet. Without battery concerns, the weight would go down, heat would be lower, and power concerns could obviously be minimized.

For those times away from AC, you could even provide an optional powerful EXTERNAL cabled battery source. An external battery would not be restricted by the size/shape necessary for inclusion in the DeskNote chassis and could therefore be both more efficient and less costly. You might even make an external mouse, trackball, or keyboard unit do double duty as a temporary rechargeable battery source.

[ktlx]

Originally posted by rjwill246
Oh PLEEEEEEZE! That is absolutley 'infra dig mate.' Get a grip! neither you ( since I searched your postings for your predictions) nor anyone else came vaguely as close. And MacBidouille, if not totally correct came closer and more accurately than any one else to the final result.

I never said I posted the prediction. I don't know how to start threads and once MacB posted them, there wasn't much point in making a "me too" post. That would have been pretty silly.

My point wasn't that MacB was all wrong, they were not. My point was that the original poster said that they were spot-on which is not correct. They got about half of what they predicted right.

If you don't believe me, look at the front page. Even Arn says that MacB was "consistently in-consistent".

MacB got the WWDC announcement and preview right but after that the only thing they got right was four motherboard features, three of which were pretty obvious (DDR 400, USB 2.0 and AGP 8x).

[rjstanford]

Originally posted by vancenase
i'm in the same boat as you Dharvabinky .. but i have to pay for mine! the advantage for me going with a PB vs. wintel is that X11 is 'directly' available for me (vs. restarting into a flavor of linux under wintel). Not wanting to discourage you, but I've always used Hummingbird's Exceed as an xserver under Windows (works the same way that the Mac OS X one does, runs as a process and can use the standard Windows windowmanager/desktop for display). It works really well, and is pretty darn responsive. So if that's the only advantage you need, well, its available on the other side of the fence too.

I am getting a little tired of people who haven't tried the new intels talking smack about them as well. The centrino lines are quite amazing -- fast, quiet, with ultra-low power draw. A little pricey, sure, but no more than a comparable Mac (and getting on for twice the speed (really)). I'd be content with a 1.3ghz G4 in the 12" PB (say the 7457), the 867mhz one is a little frustrating at times, but its beginning to look like our next laptop will be a Sony. Bleah.

-Richard

[erova]

Originally posted by rjwill246
After all, how were your predicitions?? and if there weren't any- and there weren't- this nitpicking is most unreasonable.
Congrats, MacBidouille and a rapid "up yours" to your detractors!!! And, let's hope they do this well next time... 'cause no one else came within a 'coo-ee' of their predicitions. For within reason, they nailed it!!!

um, MacBidouille is a rumor site. they're supposed to crank out rumors. they're in the business of rumors. i'm not, and neither is most everyone else on this site--we merely read them.

going with your logic of "well you didn't do any better" suggests that when someone complains that g5's should ship next week instead of next month, we should collectively tell them "well why don't you build a g5 and ship it next week", and we can clearly see how far that will get us...if this were the case in everyday life, there would be far fewer film critics and restaurant reviews, and Consumer Reports probably would have gone bust by now trying to build refrigerators and flash lights.

[shen]

i think we are looking at a future release of gobi ibooks, and a G5 laptop _after_ the chip gets all the kinks worked out. look for at least 6 months to blow by before that happens. likely 9-12. by then we have panther to load on them, and people used to IBM cranking out good quality chips for apple. in the mean time, apple sells a lot more 17" books than other wise, since there is no L3 in the 12 and no update in 15"

simple marketing if you can do the hardware.......

[DrGonzo]

The way I see it at this point is that if Apples next upgrade on the 15"pb is not worthy i will buy it just to have a laptop, and then trade it in when they release the g5 pb, yah it'll cost a little more that way though.

I'm also holding out that Apple will surprise us releasing something tasty SOONER (3-6mo) or at least making a minor update to the 15" now (al, ae, bt, etc...) and release something tasty in 6-12mo. Though we'll see.

[dabirdwell]

Do we know anything about the possibility of variable speed buses to manage some power issues?

[t^3]

ThinkSecret's new article today says that "The G5 also does processor cycling, and can spin each processor down to 1300 MHz." Certainly this can make a PowerBook G5 possible right now - maybe a 1.4GHz G5 with processor cycling down to 1GHz?

[dongmin]

Originally posted by giffut
And remember: The 1.2Ghz G5/IBM 970 variant consumes 3Watt less than the Motoroloa G4 1Ghz found in the PB17. So where are the heat issues here?People new to the forum, please do a search. This subject has been discussed to death. The G4 does not consume more power than the 970. (http://forums.macrumors.com/showthread.php?postid=376573#post376573) Period. End of story.

The 970 will make its way into a PB as soon as IBM can get it to a .09 micron process and ship in volume. It's as simple as that. So re-read all those rumors about the next revision of the 970. I believe that MacBidouille correctly predicted that the 970 would not make it into the PB until it goes to .09, sometime in the first half of next year

Originally posted by pyrotoaster
Dual processors take up too much room, produce too much heat, and require too much power (unless you're okay with a two and a half hour battery life) to even be considered for a Powerbook right now. actually with the 7457 which consume 7.5W at 1 ghz, it might be possible to put in a dual 1 ghz 7457 into the 17". Then again, it would probably require a substantial redesign of the mobo, which is highly unlikely at this stage.

[dorleac]

elo writes:
4. Apple would never make a move this major without a complete redesign of the external case. The G5 PowerBooks won't look like the G4 PowerBooks. (Expect grating!)

I certainly hope a G5 Powerbook wouldn't have much grating! Can you imagine the amount of dust and dirt that would get in a laptop with grating that got toted around. It would be a nightmare for the internal parts.

Bad idea!

[jbomber]

Originally posted by dorleac
elo writes:


I certainly hope a G5 Powerbook wouldn't have much grating! Can you imagine the amount of dust and dirt that would get in a laptop with grating that got toted around. It would be a nightmare for the internal parts.

Bad idea!

Yeah, seriously. it'd be NASTY. The G5 powerbook is a way's off and it'll probably look a bit more like a Rev. B Powermac (hopefully they'll have gotten rid of a lot of that lame grating by then.) In the meantime, the Aluminum G4 powerbook will most likely look just like its 12" and 17" sisters. The only question being- WHEN THE HELL IS IT COMING OUT!?!!??!! :confused:

[Magus]

Blargh.. I am going to college in August and need a laptop (I'm a switcher). I kept my hopes up for a 15" G5 PowerBook but wasn't really expecting one at WWDC. I've pretty much decided to go ahead and get a 12" G4 PB or a 14" iBook and sell it once the 15" G5 versions come out, but I don't know if it would be wiser to go ahead and buy the current model PB, wait and see if it gets some bumps in the next couple of weeks, or just go ahead and buy an iBook.

I'll be a math major, so I need some pretty good computing power.

Any suggestions? :confused:

[jbomber]

well, after reading this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/31424.html

it looks like the 15" pbooks won't be out for a little while yet....

:(
final boards from motorola won't ship til Q3 and then that means there's still a bit of a wait before the first ones start showing up on shelves...

upside- more time to save those pennies
downside- i've been without my pbook for 5 days and i'm already going insane. i'll be institutionalized by the time apple's ready to release the new ones.

[MacFan26]

Originally posted by Magus
I've pretty much decided to go ahead and get a 12" G4 PB or a 14" iBook and sell it once the 15" G5 versions come out, but I don't know if it would be wiser to go ahead and buy the current model PB, wait and see if it gets some bumps in the next couple of weeks, or just go ahead and buy an iBook.

I'll be a math major, so I need some pretty good computing power.

Any suggestions? :confused:

I would suggest going with the 12" PB, just because if you're going to be a math major, the G4 PB would probably be better than an iBook. Wait until MacWorld in July, if they don't do any speed bumps, I would go with the PB. I need a new laptop for college too, if they release the 15" updated in aluminum, that's what I'll be getting.

[MhzDoesMatter]

Originally posted by jbomber
well, after reading this: http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/31424.html

it looks like the 15" pbooks won't be out for a little while yet....

:(
final boards from motorola won't ship til Q3 and then that means there's still a bit of a wait before the first ones start showing up on shelves...


That article might not mean what u think it does. Does motorola make mobo's for Apple? If they're chips are ready, but their personal boards aren't (wasn't even aware they made any boards, especially not computers') then Apple may be gearing up to release systems based on their own boards built with these chips.

However, are we even sure this is the next update for the powerbook lines? Or even just the 15incher? Apple might already have something else waiting in the wings. Odds are it would be yet another inferior stop gap but it might displace the current stagnation, while giving Apple time to beat the living crap out of motorola, then stealing the new chips from their pockets as the hang them on the flagpole by their underwear.

-Hertz

[jbomber]

Originally posted by MhzDoesMatter
That article might not mean what u think it does. Does motorola make mobo's for Apple? If they're chips are ready, but their personal boards aren't (wasn't even aware they made any boards, especially not computers') then Apple may be gearing up to release systems based on their own boards built with these chips.

However, are we even sure this is the next update for the powerbook lines? Or even just the 15incher? Apple might already have something else waiting in the wings. Odds are it would be yet another inferior stop gap but it might displace the current stagnation, while giving Apple time to beat the living crap out of motorola, then stealing the new chips from their pockets as the hang them on the flagpole by their underwear.

-Hertz


LOL. God i hope so. :D The money is seriously burning a hole in my pocket. I'm starting to size up those battleship-sized 17-inchers. Somebody help me! I need an intervention!

[Potus]

Originally posted by Makosuke
I'm really surprised about how many people were holding out hope that there would be 970s in PowerBooks, and how many still seem to think that it was some evil Apple "decision" to keep the portables on G4s...


Thank you for you rational analysis. Sometimes I think Mac owners prefer nothing more than whining. The recent flood of posts after the G5 announcement is a case in point. Your post was a ray of light. Thanks.

[BigJayhawk]

At least the change from the G4 to the G5 should be VERY MAJOR but on the other hand, it seems that Mac Users spend so much time WITHOUT an upgrade because they keep holding out for something that's supposed to be a little bit better.

How much productivity do we lose in the mean time??? Not to mention how much we "hurt the hand that feeds us" (Apple) by holding off on purchases all the time.

[mrdeep]

My next computer will be a laptop, something that out do (on all fronts, excluding possibly hd speed) my current desktop (pc). So, when do you think apple will have somthing to accomodate my switching needs?

My current desktop =
Home built
-XP1800+
-Epox 84da+ (very good mobo)
-Generic ram (not exactly sure of speed)
-Seagate Baracuda IV 40 gb 7200rpm
-ATI Radeon 8500

[cb911]

Originally posted by BigJayhawk
At least the change from the G4 to the G5 should be VERY MAJOR but on the other hand, it seems that Mac Users spend so much time WITHOUT an upgrade because they keep holding out for something that's supposed to be a little bit better.

How much productivity do we lose in the mean time??? Not to mention how much we "hurt the hand that feeds us" (Apple) by holding off on purchases all the time.

i don't think that many people lose productivity because of waiting for an upgrade. many people hold onto older Macs and keep hammering along with them.

but i guess there are a few people like me. i just sold my TiBook 667 in anticipation of a G5 PowerBook at WWDC, so now i'm Mac-less. but i don't think this is "hurting the hand that feeds us" because when Apple releases the new PowerBooks, even if they are still G4's, i reckon that there will be heaps of people lining up to get them. those who really need portability will still buy a TiBook now, but most people won't. they want the 15" to at least have the same features as the 17".

[DrGonzo]

Originally posted by mrdeep
My next computer will be a laptop, something that out do (on all fronts, excluding possibly hd speed) my current desktop (pc). So, when do you think apple will have somthing to accomodate my switching needs?

My current desktop =
Home built
-XP1800+
-Epox 84da+ (very good mobo)
-Generic ram (not exactly sure of speed)
-Seagate Baracuda IV 40 gb 7200rpm
-ATI Radeon 8500

THat's a pretty objective, but i would say not the new round of powerbooks or wahtever is next, probably not until next year or so, though i'm sure some will disagree with me. Maybe the new specs of the pb will be 1.3ghz g4 with all the extras and that will probably come close to you desktop. I'm assuming you're going to keep your current computer though so just buy a laptop based on what you'll be using it for.

[Ivanay]

Well here's the big question that I have then:

I'm dying to buy a PowerBook, but if Apple is imminently releasing some new models then I'd rather wait to choose from one of those instead of buying something now that might become instantly obsolete. Now, I've seen a lot of people speculating that Apple may come out with new models at MacWorld, or at least very soon. My response to that is:


If Apple is going to release new PowerBooks so soon after the big WWDC announcement, why wouldn't Steve have announced it during his keynote?


I mean, that's where Apple had the most press coverage, so it would have made the most sense if they had announced new models there, wouldn't it?! It's not like a July delivery is too much later than the keynote - Apple has announced products at the keynote that haven't been available for months before. Instead of taking advantage of the huge press coverage at WWDC, Apple is "quietly" releasing new models a few weeks later?! That makes no sense to me.

Since Apple is not making a presence at Macworld CreativePro, it doesn't sound right to me that they're coming out with any new models in the next month or two.

In which case, I may have to plunk down the money to buy one now, and hope that they don't spring any surprises on us a week later. :(


Ivan

[weinmatt]

I disagree. The last revision was an unannounced one. I'd say that we're looking at the same thing now, so CreativePro looks like a good a place as any

[Nawlins]

Originally posted by Magus
Blargh.. I am going to college in August and need a laptop (I'm a switcher). I kept my hopes up for a 15" G5 PowerBook but wasn't really expecting one at WWDC. I've pretty much decided to go ahead and get a 12" G4 PB or a 14" iBook and sell it once the 15" G5 versions come out, but I don't know if it would be wiser to go ahead and buy the current model PB, wait and see if it gets some bumps in the next couple of weeks, or just go ahead and buy an iBook.

I'll be a math major, so I need some pretty good computing power.

Any suggestions? :confused:

I'm in a very similar situation. I start college in late August, and want to buy a Powerbook by Aug. 1 at the latest - I need some time to get used to it well (I'm a switcher). I'd really like Apple to release the new 15" PB in the Aluminum casing, but that looks more and more unlikely. I'll probably end up getting a 12" PB, but I'm not sure if I need a SuperDrive - I don't do any video editing, but I'd like to download some movies and burn them to DVD's (yes, I know this is illegal, and no, I don't care).

Random question - does Keynote come standard on all new Macs? I'm interested in learning how to use it after I get my PB. Thanks.

[jettaboi]

Keynote does not come standard with a Powerbook or any other Mac. You can purchase it from the apple store for $99.00.

[Eric-C]

Ivanay
If Apple is going to release new PowerBooks so soon after the big WWDC announcement, why wouldn't Steve have announced it during his keynote


The way I see it, the PowerMac was announced because it has a larger inpact on developers (i.e. the audience of WWDC). The new processor and whatnot would be important to certain film makers or musicians. I don't think a powerbook was relevant to the occasion. It may be wishful thinking, but it's all I've got.

[jbomber]

if apple's going to put out some new stuff at macworld, they better hurry and sign up for a spot on the schedule.

2 weeks away, and I'm already gettin' antsy....

[Dragonneyes]

Originally posted by DharvaBinky

We'd be *fools* to buy Powerbooks. And really, unless you were a "Final Cut Pro on the Airplane" kind of guy, no one should buy the things.


I guess fools if you're looking for the most powerful mobile out there, but to tell you the truth, even Windows XP has none of the stability of 10.2 (and Panther is bound to be better). I am writing from an XP-running PC and I hate it, but I'm waiting for a 15" PB update. What I'm saying is, I think Maclovers buy for the MAC-ness, and compare only to other Macs, because I know that I, at least, could never bear buying a Windows machine.

So, we want the fastest from Apple so we can run the OS. :)

And on another note, any speed bump to the PBs would be wonderful, and an update to the 15" to make it a 17" with a smaller body would be great, too. Who cares about those 970s? A laptop doesn't need the highest specs availiable to be a phenominal (and NOT outdated) buy.

[SpeedRacr26]

15" PB (w/ Superdrive) now has a shipping of 7-10 days from the Apple store....something's cooking, i'd LOVE for a new PB to come before college starts in late august. And YES, i would be happy with new G4's:D

[Molson]

Apple Store is being updated. New 15"
PowerBooks on the way

[MacBoyX]

Hmmm...

Apple stores in Europe (UK, France, Germany etc) are down.

US Store isn't?

Something going on?

MacBoyX

[Pete_Hoover]

Originally posted by Tiauguinho
Oh man... If they release a G4 again, im gonna be speechless...

Might as well start now. I doubt the next revision PB's are going to be G5's.

[volfreak]

Oh let's hope this means new 15" PBs....:cool:

[Potus]

AppleStore is up and running and willing to place my order for the current tiBook...(not a new version)

[BigHat]

Originally posted by LVzardoz
So why not "Think Different" and bring out a "DeskNote" 970 machine? When is the last time MOST people who own notebooks actually used them without being plugged in?

Are you serious ??? This is the most mind numbingly stupid post I've seen in years.

[Ikash]

im getting real ansious waiting on these new 15" Al Powerbooks. they keep toying with me every tuesday when im glued to the comptuer looking for a update. HA kinda sad. I hope they come out soon. What are they waiting on i don't think they will have fuel cells. the tech is still aways away. mabe water cooled inside. Nec has a laptop that is watercolled inside.

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by BigJayhawk
Not to mention how much we "hurt the hand that feeds us" (Apple) by holding off on purchases all the time.

We hurt the hand that feeds us by allowing Apple to make big bucks on overpriced inferior hardware. If we keep buying those types of machines, there is a larger risk of Apple resting on it's laurels--which is bad in the long run. It has happened before, in other places.

[jbomber]

Originally posted by Ikash
im getting real ansious waiting on these new 15" Al Powerbooks. they keep toying with me every tuesday when im glued to the comptuer looking for a update. HA kinda sad. I hope they come out soon.


Seriously... the least apple could do is set up some sort of counseling. I feel like a junkie waiting for a hit. C'mon Apple! Gimme a fix!!! I NEED THIS!!!!! :D

[Ikash]

dang right, dang apple always making me poor too, there goods are so great its like a rat on coke the rat is starved for days and they offer him food or crack and he takes the crack, apple better quit messing with us, i bet steve jobs is just stitting back lauging at us.

hes like whos the B!tch (he gots the goods we need)

[Potus]

Originally posted by soggywulf
We hurt the hand that feeds us by allowing Apple to make big bucks on overpriced inferior hardware. If we keep buying those types of machines, there is a larger risk of Apple resting on it's laurels--which is bad in the long run. It has happened before, in other places.

Huh? Don't like the product? Think it's overpriced? Inferior? Don't buy it. Leave the rest of us in our little paradise.

[Sun Baked]

Oops, already posted. ;)

But it looks like the meaning of the "Year of the Laptop" may have been a sales trend.

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by Potus
Huh? Don't like the product? Think it's overpriced? Inferior? Don't buy it. Leave the rest of us in our little paradise.

I didn't buy it, and neither did many others recently. Now that the G5 is out, though, things are looking up.

[Potus]

Originally posted by soggywulf
I didn't buy it, and neither did many others recently. Now that the G5 is out, though, things are looking up.

OK. So you don't buy Apple hardware. Why are you here? Is it some kind of existentail experiment? Naaaah. Just a baby troll.

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by Potus
OK. So you don't buy Apple hardware. Why are you here? Is it some kind of existentail experiment? Naaaah. Just a baby troll.

Umm, yeah I do buy Apple hardware, when it is worth it. I have a QS867 as a matter of fact. LOL. If someone criticizes Apple, automatically they are labeled a troll. Nice cop out. :rolleyes:

[Potus]

nope. If you use an indefinite referent expect to be misunderstood.

[billyboy]

These people saying their Powerbooks are flashy ovens maybe need to take a look at how they have Jaguar set up, cause it sure doesnt apply to my 867 Mhz Ti running 10.2.4. Working in 10.2.6, sure, the fans come on for fun.

And hands up all those who have their current G4 professional notebooks working to full capacity eight hours a day. Yeah I thought so, a small minority of overall Mac users. Relax and let notebook technology develop at a sensible rate. In the real world, a G4 is still a monstrous machine. It has to be a tiny minority plus victims of hype who are surely calling for must have G5´s in Pbs like yesterday and G4s in ibooks. Just how fast do the majority of people want to surf the internet, write a job application and play around with photos and music.

By all means keep up the pressure for cutting edge technology but keep things in perspective.

My 2 cents

[MacFan26]

Originally posted by billyboy

My 2 cents

I agree with your 2 cents. I think everyone is being a little too demanding about a G5 in the PowerBook. The current laptops are still awesome in my mind and I would still buy one over a Windows laptop in a minute. I know that Mac users are demanding, as well they should be, but we have an awesome laptop line to be proud of, even without the G5 PowerBook.

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by Potus
nope. If you use an indefinite referent expect to be misunderstood.

Read the thread, please. :)

[soggywulf]

Originally posted by MacFan26
I agree with your 2 cents. I think everyone is being a little too demanding about a G5 in the PowerBook. The current laptops are still awesome in my mind and I would still buy one over a Windows laptop in a minute.

Overall, I agree also. If we include OSX, we are ahead with laptops. I think Wintel is kind of in the same boat as us as far as things like mem bus, due to power considerations. So the slow G4 bus doesn't cripple us as much. Plus the fact that neither platform has (or can have) the greatest graphics hardware. So aside from the lack of a 2-button trackpad, we are ahead.

[billyboy]

Originally posted by soggywulf
Overall, I agree also. If we include OSX, we are ahead with laptops. I think Wintel is kind of in the same boat as us as far as things like mem bus, due to power considerations. So the slow G4 bus doesn't cripple us as much. Plus the fact that neither platform has (or can have) the greatest graphics hardware. So aside from the lack of a 2-button trackpad, we are ahead.

Thanks for that. I thought I was going to get so flamed for my post - or at least have some one burn me with the bottom of their Powerbook.

[Potus]

Originally posted by billyboy


And hands up all those who have their current G4 professional notebooks working to full capacity eight hours a day. Yeah I thought so, a small minority of overall Mac users. Relax and let notebook technology develop at a sensible rate. In the real world, a G4 is still a monstrous machine. It has to be a tiny minority plus victims of hype who are surely calling for must have G5´s in Pbs like yesterday and G4s in ibooks. Just how fast do the majority of people want to surf the internet, write a job application and play around with photos and music.

By all means keep up the pressure for cutting edge technology but keep things in perspective.

My 2 cents

Amen!

[Potus]

Originally posted by soggywulf
Read the thread, please. :)

Did.

pax.