Future Apple Notebooks To Get 3G Wireless?

[MacRumors]

http://www.macrumors.com/images/macrumorsthreadlogo.gif (http://www.macrumors.com)

Appleinsider cites one of its sources as claiming that future Apple notebooks may feature an option to include built-in 3G wireless (http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/07/05/14/source_apple_may_build_3g_wireless_into_future_notebook_model.html).

While such features have been present in the PC industry for some time, Appleinsider believes that Apple will do a better job of implementing the chip, placing it in the display and away from the logic board to minimize electromagnetic interference and maximizing potential signal strength.

Which technology Apple will adopt is unclear at this point. HSDPA, supported by AT&T (and other global carriers), seems to be a logical bet regarding Apple's work with the company with the iPhone. However, with Appleinsider's source unable to identify the technology to be used, this tidbit remains speculative.

As a historical note, Intel's Santa Rosa platform originally specified having such a 3G HSDPA card for notebooks, but such plans were later scrapped (http://today.reuters.com/news/articleinvesting.aspx?view=CN&storyID=2007-02-14T100351Z_01_HEL005089_RTRIDST_0_NOKIA-INTEL-URGENT.XML&rpc=66&type=qcna), citing lack of a good business case.

[macinfojunkie]

About time. Not that I personally have much need for this, but Apple does need to offer more options in BTO than they currently do (e.g. TV Tuners) on some of their model types. Offering 3G as an option would be a start in this area. I also hope that in the next notebook design they make hard drive replacement an easier exercise for the end user. Dell manage it, so it can't be that hard ;-)

[yagran]

so what does this mean? would you have to put a sim card in it?

[amac4me]

I think this would be a GREAT feature to include in future Mac portables.

[BigPrince]

what are some costs associated using this.

[4np]

Nah, don't need it... I've got WiFi :)

[mkrishnan]

so what does this mean? would you have to put a sim card in it?

I think, in the Thinkpad case, yes, that's how it works. I think it goes under the battery in the T60.

[dcv]

3G for a notebook and not in the iPhone? :confused:

[Mydel]

3G for a notebook and not in the iPhone? :confused:

Yeah my thought exactly. Maybe Im wrong but is US 3G compatible with EU 3G??

[mkrishnan]

Yeah my thought exactly. Maybe Im wrong but is US 3G compatible with EU 3G??

I think it depends on the technology... I don't even think all EU 3G is intercompatible, is it? US 3G is certainly not intercompatible. I think the UMTS/HSDPA system works in more places than any other, but EV-DO and other standards are prevalent in the US, as well, which complicates matters greatly.

Nonetheless, hasn't stopped IBM, etc.

[longofest]

what are some costs associated using this.

If you read AppleInsider's article, they go into that a bit. Typically, it costs about $180 extra, so it would most likely be a build to order option.

3G for a notebook and not in the iPhone? :confused:

You can fit 3G into a notebook easier than you can into a small phone. I'm using Apple's logic here...

Either way, I think you'll see 3G in the iPhone soon enough. Let the iPhone be on the market for a bit...

[Mydel]

I think it depends on the technology... I don't even think all EU 3G is intercompatible, is it? US 3G is certainly not intercompatible. I think the UMTS/HSDPA system works in more places than any other, but EV-DO and other standards are prevalent in the US, as well, which complicates matters greatly.

Hmm Im under impression that UMTS/HSDPA has one standard in all EU. Imm not 100% sure but I used it in many EU countries and naver had a problem with connection using only one sim (Polish provider - Heyah). I dont have a clue if EV-DO is even in use in EU.
Anyway stashing 3G into laptop whithout intercompatibility would be hmm strange. And they would have to have different model for US and different for EU not mentioning other places. that doesn't soud like Apple..........

[dcv]

You can fit 3G into a notebook easier than you can into a small phone. I'm using Apple's logic here...

Either way, I think you'll see 3G in the iPhone soon enough. Let the iPhone be on the market for a bit...

I'm just confused by the reasoning:

Not putting 3G into a small device used where you're likely to be away from your computer (or with your computer but not having broadband/WiFi access) and wanting "high"-speed internet access...

and

Adding lower-speed 3G to a notebook which already has a higher-speed wireless-G or-N connection to the internet. Plus you can already use your mobile phone as a modem for your notebook via Bluetooth in areas where you've no WiFi.

It'd be a nice feature to have, yes, but I'd have hoped that they'd address the lack of 3G in the iPhone (certainly for the European market) before sticking 3G in a notebook!

[BigPrince]

But then theres monthly fees and such correct?

[Warbrain]

But then theres monthly fees and such correct?

Yes, and it's usually a ridiculous price for what you get. I just don't see Apple doing this yet as 3G networks aren't even available in all major cities in the U.S. It's just not feasible, even as a BTO option.

[mkrishnan]

Anyway stashing 3G into laptop whithout intercompatibility would be hmm strange. And they would have to have different model for US and different for EU not mentioning other places. that doesn't soud like Apple..........

Well, in that case, the most likely scenario is still UMTS/HSDPA, which at least *could* be compatible both with US and with EU services, from what I understand.

[CrazyWingman]

This is something I'd expect to see as an option on any ultra-portable, like the rumors on Friday. I'm not overly familiar with 3G services, but it seems like it would fit there, if anywhere.

[BigPrince]

From the sounds of this, I think I'll pass. To expensive to maintain.

[syklee26]

exactly how fast of speed are we talking about here in real life?

[Manatee]

I certainly hope Apple includes built-in 3G capability in future portables. I have it in my little Sony TX notebook (Sprint EV-DO), and I love it.

I have an Express card for my MacBook Pro, but it's not as convenient. I have to take the card out to fit the computer in its case. Of course the external card gives me the advantage of changing carriers or updating technology as it becomes available.

Apple would be smart to offer easily-swappable modules to support either the CDMA carriers (EV-DO) or GSM carriers (HSDPA). Many built-in 3G adapters go unused since they are dedicated to a carrier that isn't the one with whom the purchaser already has service.

[toneloco2881]

Well, in that case, the most likely scenario is still UMTS/HSDPA, which at least *could* be compatible both with US and with EU services, from what I understand.
US and EU 3g services operate on different bands so their not compatible. Hell, even T-Mobiles upcoming 3g is not compatible with Cingular within the US or any other place in the world to my knowledge. The US mobile system is a joke with it's competing technologies, and non-standard(as compared to the rest of the world) 3g service bands.

[mkrishnan]

US and EU 3g services operate on different bands so their not compatible. Hell, even T-Mobiles upcoming 3g is not compatible with Cingular within the US or any other place in the world to my knowledge. The US mobile system is a joke with it's competing technologies, and non-standard(as compared to the rest of the world) 3g service bands.

There are multi-band HSDPA cards available now (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/26/htc-x7500-athena-has-tri-band-hsdpa/). Just because the phones and some of the cards marketed by the companies aren't tri-band, there's no reason to expect that the card in the computer would not be multi-band. Everyone likes to bitch about the US cellular industry...I'm no exception. But we ought to at least keep bitching to reality and not invent new problems.... :p

[mozmac]

I have been a Cingular customer for 7 years now and have been very pleased with their service. However, the EVDO network that Verizon runs is far more expansive than Cingular's. Verizon is in more cities and, thus, is a better deal. I don't really like Verizon because they cripple their phones to make an extra buck and many other shady things, but I love their 3G network. Apple will probably go with Cingular/AT&T so let's hope they put lots and lots of money into improving the network.

[true777]

In Europe HSDPA/HSUPA currently offers download speeds of up to 7.2 MBit/sec (=16x faster than UMTS+EDGE), and upload speeds of up to 1.4 MBit/sec (=22x faster than UMTS+EDGE).

The latest cards support *all* of the following bands:
850/900/1800/1900/2100 Mhz.

An affordable monthly plan will range around 20 Euro/month for 1.5GB, and 50 Euro/month for 20GB. The service generally works very well and is quite popular, and extremely convenient. I use it when in Europe and am very happy with the service.

Carriers claim that cards work in all of Europe *and* in the US, though roaming charges will apply for usage abroad.
I would be more than thrilled to see the technology embedded in my MacBook Pro to be independent of WiFi, and online wherever, whenever.

[ClimbingTheLog]

I use Bluetooth for this purpose, and it's compatible with all carriers.

Intel has a $1.1B investment in WiMax, and that's the logical end-game.

I don't see why Apple couldn't build in a nice antenna, though, and let anybody plug into it - with an extra ExpressCard slot pin set or equivalent. A small FPGA could be used to change the antenna length to match the carrier's frequency ideally.

[Clive At Five]

No... Wrong.

Cell phones will soon be moving away from 3G and towards Wi-Max.

3G, globally, is more on the way out than it is on the way in (even though the same might not be true in America). Besides, enabling it in a laptop would be pointless. Who on earth is going to want to pay phone companies an arm and a leg on a data-plan when they can go to the nearest coffee shop and surf for free? Enough places in the US have free Wi-Fi to render 3G-enabled laptops utterly useless.

And to counter the already-brewing "noisy, busy hot-spot argument," 1) First that's ridiculous. I've been to many-a hotspot and have never had major issues concentrating. 2) invest in a $30 pair of noise-canceling headphones... or at least a pair that will muffle out other sound.

Wi-Max, people. It might be hype right now, but it's based on the already-existing technology in out laptops today, which means easier asimilation, unlike 3G... plus no/low freaking data plan fees!

"I skate to where the puck is going to be, not to where it has been."

Anyone who believes this report is foolish.

-Clive

[toneloco2881]

There are multi-band HSDPA cards available now (http://www.engadget.com/2007/01/26/htc-x7500-athena-has-tri-band-hsdpa/). Just because the phones and some of the cards marketed by the companies aren't tri-band, there's no reason to expect that the card in the computer would not be multi-band. Everyone likes to bitch about the US cellular industry...I'm no exception. But we ought to at least keep bitching to reality and not invent new problems.... :p
Very true! I guess I'm just a little angry b/c while "some" companies are putting out multi-band 3g phones/cards the vast majority still do not. Once Cingular, and T-Mobile expand their network we may begin to see more companies begin to offer compatible handsets..etc. Thanks for the info btw. I wasn't aware of that particular handset.:)

[mkrishnan]

Enough places in the US have free Wi-Fi to render 3G-enabled laptops utterly useless.

It seems to me that people who make use of EV-DO and UMTS use them in places where this isn't feasible. For instance, the practicality of business meetings is that there is WiFi installed there, but it is on a network (of your customer's or vendors) to which you may not have access. The people in sales I know who use data services need to be able to use it when they are, where they are. For casual users, sure, of course, hotspots are fine.

Wi-Max, people.

Is there a website you can point me to that offers a search for WiMAX service providers based on zip code or prefix or what-have-you? I know that there was a pilot service in Jacksonville using (I think) 802.16-2004, but I'm not sure how much Florida coverage has improved since then. Thanks! :)

Very true! I guess I'm just a little angry b/c

Yeah, I totally feel your frustration. I completely agree that the way US cellular works is insane. :( Hopefully things will slowly get better. GSM for instance has made a lot of progress since AT&T/Cingular went from TDMA to GSM and T-Mobile entered the US. But there doesn't seem to be any time in the immediate future when the US will have even a set of interoperable standards, let alone one standard. GSM and related technologies (including UMTS) is still the best bet, though. Most global coverage, and reasonably good US coverage.

[daschor]

No... Wrong.

Cell phones will soon be moving away from 3G and towards Wi-Max.

Yes, over the next two to five years Wi-Max is expected to take over much of the traffic currently using 3G bandwidth.

3G, globally, is more on the way out than it is on the way in (even though the same might not be true in America). Besides, enabling it in a laptop would be pointless. Who on earth is going to want to pay phone companies an arm and a leg on a data-plan when they can go to the nearest coffee shop and surf for free? Enough places in the US have free Wi-Fi to render 3G-enabled laptops utterly useless.

Enabling 3G in a latop is anything but pointless. There are potentially millions of people willing to pay for the convenience of internet anywhere. Perhaps you are forgetting that the United States is a huge country, and that large parts have cellular service, but no coffee shops. I would rather pay $60 a month for 3G service than spend that much on coffee just to check my email. If you think 3G-enabled laptops are useless, then don't buy one. I personally think 3G is the best game in town right now for internet service on the road. I use it everywhere - home, work, travelling, in the car.. everywhere.


Wi-Max, people. It might be hype right now, but it's based on the already-existing technology in out laptops today, which means easier asimilation, unlike 3G... plus no/low freaking data plan fees!

Yes, it is hype right now - and 3G is really happening right now. Until Wi-Max is mature and widely deployed, 3G is the mobile internet of choice.

Anyone who believes this report is foolish.

Perhaps, but it would be nice to have 3G support built-in.

:apple:

[schmidp]

In Austria network providers are currently doing heavy marketing for mobile data plans. Many people start using mobile data plans instead of fixed line ones.

For example my mother switched from a 2mbit up/down plan for 65 dollars a month to a 7.2mbit mobile plan for 30 dollars a month.
(the mobile plan only has 1.5gb transfer volume, but she doesn't need more).

If Apple included 3g in their notebooks, I'd think about switching as well.

lg philipp

[miniConvert]

I already have a 3G data contract. I have a little USB HSDPA modem/dongle in anticipation of getting a Mac laptop, but being able to slip my SIM into the sexy Apple-styled casing and do away with ugly add-ons would be fandabbatastic :)

With 3G in a laptop (HSDPA/UMTS/EDGE/GPRS) you really can be connected almost anywhere. Dell, Lenovo and others have been integrating 3G into their pro laptops for some time now, so much so that I've considered a Dell Latitude several times. An integrated Apple module would have me reaching for my plastic.

From a UK POV - I appreciate that our market is quite unique.

[xsedrinam]

Ecuador will go with Wi-Max (Guayaquil) in September and apparently a good number of Latin American countries latinwimax (http://www.latinwimax.com/?cat=17) are going there, as well.

[true777]

WiMax isn't going to help you for a long time still if you're interested in being on-line in your car, on the beach, in small villages, out in nature, or on a train (except for if you're on BART in San Francisco, of course!).

I still think 3G is a viable solution, and just as in Europe the price went down pretty fast with increased usage and increased competition the same will happen in the US.

In Europe many people are cancelling their home broadband (DSL, cable, etc.) service account and use their 3G connection exclusively -- at home AND on the road. So if you're saving $40/month on your cancelled home internet and pay $60 for nationwide wireless broadband instead, the additional $20/month doesn't seem high considering you'll never have to be on the lookout for a WiFi spot again, won't have to pay for internet access on airports, etc., *and* are connected at 7.2Mbit/sec wherever there is cell phone reception, nationwide.

And: No more coffee, no more sitting in cramped cafes just to check your email, etc.

[NYC567user]

While it is a good idea on paper, the reality of today's 3G module chipsets on laptops are different. For example go and get a Sony VIAO with any of the carrier's supposedly "Fast WWAN"...you will get either EDGE or EVDO-Rev 0....only the really new models carry HSDPA, or REV-A....if any.

Many times when you need support...the carrier says that it's "a manufacturer problem" (sony, lenovo, dell, etc.)...and the manufacturer will say that it's a carrier problem..the good old "that is their fault routine." Perhaps here Apple can change the model by owning the process and taking care of it.

Another reality is the time delay when new PCMCIA/Express Cards HSDPA cards or Rev A cards came out...the manufacters/carriers were about 3 to 6 months late to release upgrade chipset modules or bios....where the regular PCMCIA cards were already out. Some manufacturers decided not to release any upgrade modules at all. so if you ar e atechie who likes the latest gadgets..this is not your route.

Also, when you break your laptop/screen/keyboard..many time you can't just move your account to another laptop due to the enabling process used by some of the carriers....

So for the convenience of not carrying around an HSDPA/ EVDO RevA card...you will have to give up speed to market, true one location support, and not too flexible account migration.

So hopefully Mac will change the model of support and manufacturing. That remains to be seen.

One lst thing..these chisets are locked to a specific carrier..which means f you want to cahnge carriers...there is plenty of research on your laptop model...or just buy one of their supported new models...

[twoodcc]

this would be neat. not sure if i'd use it or not though

[Cult Follower]

Maybe they should hurry and get this out, they need an ultraportable.

[SilvorX]

If it was to happen soon in Canada as well, it wouldn't be recommended, because the only 2 (well one) GSM carrier in the nation has outrageous data prices, where half a gigabyte of transfer costs just over $200/month, if it was cheaper, it would be a decent option, I'd love to browse the net on my Mac via EDGE/HSDPA myself.. if only it was cheaper

[kerpow]

It really depends where you are. I don't know of anywhere near me that offers **free** wifi access. But I have a Vodafone 3G card from work that I can use absolutely anywhere I want.

I think this, if it happens, would be great for Europe but not so much for the US.

[Dunepilot]

kerpow - Quite a few pubs in London offer it for free, though for some odd reason the coffee shops moved from a free to a charging model a year or two ago. I'm sitting in the Assembly Rooms in Kentish town right now, connected for free via someone's Belkin router. I'll assume it's the pub's for sake of argument!

Also, most of Islington is covered by a free wireless service provided by the council - see http://www.islington.net/islington.nsf/home

[miniConvert]

I think this, if it happens, would be great for Europe but not so much for the US.
I think that's really the main problem. I sometimes get the impression that Apple is very loyal to its core American base, and that (almost?) all products start in the US and filter outwards as necessary. Time spent perfecting integrated 3G that will find its core market outside of Apple's own? I think they've too many other things on their plate.

Edit: BUT, that doesn't detract from just how fantastic an 'always-connected' Mac laptop would be for those of us who use 3G data.

[kerpow]

kerpow - Quite a few pubs in London offer it for free, though for some odd reason the coffee shops moved from a free to a charging model a year or two ago. I'm sitting in the Assembly Rooms in Kentish town right now, connected for free via someone's Belkin router. I'll assume it's the pub's for sake of argument!


Thats fair enough, but I don't really take computers to the pub, more interesting things to do there.

Whatever works for you though, you're lucky that your council provide that kind of access for you.

[mkrishnan]

Thats fair enough, but I don't really take computers to the pub, more interesting things to do there.

We went really early (i.e. happy hour time) to the Irish pub here in town once and were shocked to realize that they have wireless and that people were hanging out with their laptop. It would never in a million years have occurred to me to bring my iBook or any other work materials to Durty Nelly's. :eek: