Is photoshop realy worth that price?

[safeas]

Why the hell is photoshop much more here in the uk? dont get it!! why cant there be one universal price?

Also will the US version work in uk?

[Blue Velvet]

If you're in business, then it's cheap. I'm sick of hearing people moan about the price of it. If you can't afford it, ask yourself whether it's worth upgrading or if you're making enough money with this application.

There's always Elements for those who don't need to work in 16bit LaB or produce tri-tones. ;)

[LeviG]

If you're in business, then it's cheap. I'm sick of hearing people moan about the price of it. If you can't afford it, ask yourself whether it's worth upgrading or if you're making enough money with this application.

There's always Elements for those who don't need to work in 16bit LaB or produce tri-tones. ;)

Um I'm in business in the UK and even I think that the price is high especially for the packages with the other programs. I could fly to the US, buy the product come back and pay the VAT (which I'd claim back anyways) and still save money over what it costs in the UK.

[Turkish]

Um I'm in business in the UK and even I think that the price is high.

High compared to what?

Something isn't necesarrily priced too high just because it's more than you want to spend.

[djellison]

Something isn't necesarrily priced too high just because it's more than you want to spend.

Guy has a market stall - selling Bananas. First guy comes up "Banana please" - "Sure - that's 20p please". Bloke walks away happy.

Next guy comes up, "Banana please" - "Sure - that's 40p please" - "But his was only 20p!!" - "Yeah - you're like, from England...so I have to rip you off"

40p is too high.

Levig's thinking along the right lines...go find the first guy and buy his Banana for 25p - you've still saved 15p.


Doug

[Turkish]

Guy has a market stall - selling Bananas. First guy comes up "Banana please" - "Sure - that's 20p please". Bloke walks away happy.

Next guy comes up, "Banana please" - "Sure - that's 40p please" - "But his was only 20p!!" - "Yeah - you're like, from England...so I have to rip you off"

40p is too high.

Levig's thinking along the right lines...go find the first guy and buy his Banana for 25p - you've still saved 15p.


Doug

The banana stand is in one place in your scenario. Not so with the Adobe scenario.

[tomoisyourgod]

Why the hell is photoshop much more here in the uk? dont get it!! why cant there be one universal price?

Also will the US version work in uk?

there's like a £200 difference! buy from a US seller...

I didn't know this, I've just bought Design Premium, cost £1700 or there abouts, but I made that back soon enough - it's an essential tool of the trade.

[LeviG]

it doesnt cost any different to produce the disk for the uk market so the premium the UK gets just because we have a better economy is wrong, I understand about cost of importing, which is fine stick a bit on for that but importing it doesnt cost the same as the software!.

Think about it this way if you're american and moved to the uk would you want to pay $1500 for a $750 (which you know it is from living in america) item even if you are getting paid the UK rate.

Also take into account downloading software, if you download the adobe product (which most likely comes from a us server) why is the price still higher, I could understand adding VAT (maybe even an extra 10% due to paperwork etc) due to the uk market but its not like the software is being sent to the uk by plane or boat.

As to buying the software (which I can happily afford), I begrudge buying something and being ripped off when anyone with an iota of common sense knows the price isn't really that high, it isnt just Adobe, its M$ too £400 for a $250 os, thats just wrong.
And until theres a real competitor the prices are just going to keep going up, iirc the latest photoshop etc is more expensive than the last one on release.

[shecky]

i now get CS3 at ridiculously cheap faculty pricing (better than EDU pricing), but in the past i have always bought it at full retail. its the cost of doing business. if you do not want to pay the cost, then don't be in that business.

[tomoisyourgod]

it doesnt cost any different to produce the disk for the uk market so the premium the UK gets just because we have a better economy is wrong, I understand about cost of importing, which is fine stick a bit on for that but importing it doesnt cost the same as the software!.

Think about it this way if you're american and moved to the uk would you want to pay $1500 for a $750 (which you know it is from living in america) item even if you are getting paid the UK rate.

Also take into account downloading software, if you download the adobe product (which most likely comes from a us server) why is the price still higher, I could understand adding VAT (maybe even an extra 10% due to paperwork etc) due to the uk market but its not like the software is being sent to the uk by plane or boat.

As to buying the software (which I can happily afford), I begrudge buying something and being ripped off when anyone with an iota of common sense knows the price isn't really that high, it isnt just Adobe, its M$ too £400 for a $250 os, thats just wrong.
And until theres a real competitor the prices are just going to keep going up, iirc the latest photoshop etc is more expensive than the last one on release.


There are CS3 and CS3 extended versions of Photoshop.

CS3 normal is the same as CS2 was, maybe a fraction more, this could be due to the fact CS3 was re-structured to run nativley on Intel based Macs - could be higher costs for Adobe to produce?

Discs and manuals are shipped, made and printed from/in Dublin for the UK markets.

It's a good point though - why do we get had off as opposed to the american market?

[xfiftyfour]

It's a good point though - why do we get had off as opposed to the american market?
This seems to be the case on a lot of things. I wonder why that is? Is there some huge tax to do business in the UK that doesn't exist here in the US or something?

[freebooter]

With stronger competition, Adobe's prices would be lower.

Hey, China! Hello, India!

Get your programmers after the Adobe megalith.

[Shaun.P]

High compared to what?

Something isn't necesarrily priced too high just because it's more than you want to spend.

I love this statement! (I'm not being sarcastic!). So true!

[iGav]

I'm less concerned about the price, rather more Adobe's over complication of things.

Things started going wrong when they introduced CS to counter Macromedia's MX Suite, but now... :rolleyes:

Trouble is... so firmly entrenched is it, that it's the only app that can truly lay claim to being termed the industry standard.

[huck500]

its the cost of doing business. if you do not want to pay the cost, then don't be in that business.

So you're willing to pay $400 more than the US price for essential software... what would the price difference have to be before you felt you were being ripped off?:rolleyes:

[Queso]

Speaking as someone who regularly gets to spend up to £100k of other people's money on software, the price of Photoshop is anything but expensive. If you want it, pay for it. Otherwise get Elements or even Gimp.

It's not like you don't have choices.

[nickster9224]

i have elements, but i wish i had CS3 but i dont need CS3

[Cromulent]

If you are willing to pay the price it is worth it, if you are not, it isn't.

The value of any given product is determined by whether people are willing to buy it or not at a certain price.

[Since '76]

isn't health care included with the UK version?


Seriously, it will be interesting when there is overseas options for software like there is with manufactured goods.

[dogbone]

Why not just get someone to buy it for you in America and post it over?

I buy all my electronic equipment from the USofA and airmail it to my front door for half the price it would cost me in Australia

[shecky]

So you're willing to pay $400 more than the US price for essential software... what would the price difference have to be before you felt you were being ripped off?:rolleyes:

no, i live in the US so i could care less what it costs elsewhere. i agree the UK/europe is getting nailed on the price, and i say deal with it or use other software or go into a business where you do not need adobe software, or move to the US and buy it here. bitching and moaning about it and then buying it anyway is certainly not helping anyone.

[iMeowbot]

i say deal with it or use other software or go into a business where you do not need adobe software

If nothing else, a quick survey of the software used in different trades and professions should pretty quickly erase the notion that Adobe software is too expensive :D

[tomoisyourgod]

isn't health care included with the UK version?

there should be health care included if your running Windows - the stress caused by it is astronomical!

[Queso]

If nothing else, a quick survey of the software used in different trades and professions should pretty quickly erase the notion that Adobe software is too expensive :D
Exactly. For a product orientated at a pro market it's actually cheap.

[marshallld]

It seems to me that on a very board range of products the price in the UK is the same, or nearly so, number of £ as the price in the US is $. Something that costs $10 in NYC will cost £10 in London. I've notice this on everything from magazine prices, to shirts to computers and many many more items. It isn't a recent thing either, I've noticed it over the past 20 years. Though the stronger than usual £ to $ exchange rate just makes the difference bigger lately.

[marshallld]

I should add that in the past couple of years, since the exchange rate has near $2 to £1 the 1$ price equalling 1£ in the UK has changed a bit. For example a MacPro is £1699 ($3,400) in the UK and $2,499 in the US.

[Cabbit]

So if your a business in the uk competing agents businesses in the USA and you both buy the Adobe Creative Suite Design Premium your american competitors are $74,000 better than you if you both buy 100 copies, with all that extra cash your american competitors can afford better advertising and even to have twice as many staff using the software as your company, only just a little uncompetitive i would say.

[Blue Velvet]

A site license for CS is not the same as 100 copies of the product... and organisations who buy site licenses are generally not competing internationally; they're either part of global publishing or advertising groups, or large outfits like newspapers or other media organisations i.e. newspapers, magazines and the like.

[iMeowbot]

So if your a business in the uk competing agents businesses in the USA and you both buy the Adobe Creative Suite Design Premium your american competitors are $74,000 better than you if you both buy 100 copies, with all that extra cash your american competitors can afford better advertising and even to have twice as many staff using the software as your company, only just a little uncompetitive i would say.

Twice as many staff? A business that made decisions that way would go under due to good old fashioned poor management long before software costs got in the way. In a rigid tight money situation like that, a more sensible plan would be to drop the head count down to 98 or 99. And of course, as BV noted, when you are buying licenses for that many seats, you don't pay anywhere near retail, so even the idea of cutting a job or two would be a little far fetched. Honestly, for a business that can afford 100 staff, $70K is small change.

[AlexisV]

no, i live in the US so i could care less what it costs elsewhere. i agree the UK/europe is getting nailed on the price, and i say deal with it or use other software or go into a business where you do not need adobe software, or move to the US and buy it here. bitching and moaning about it and then buying it anyway is certainly not helping anyone.

Change the record buddy. It is too expensive, it's a necessity not a luxury, there aren't actually many new features and if you don't want to tear your hair out on an Intel, you have to get it. They've got you over a barrel and they know it.

Resist the urge to swear at me - this is the forum, not a PM.

[Father Jack]

I didn't mind paying £160 for the Photoshop CS3 upgrade.

It will probably be another two years before CS4 ? appears, so my upgrade is going to cost me just less than £1.50 a week. I can live with that for such a great program. :)

FJ

[failsafe1]

Yes

[AlexisV]

£160 full product, £100 upgrade would be fairer. £400 - £500 for the full suite full product.

[notjustjay]

Well, if you're a professional, you pay the price for professional tools. I don't think anyone here had an issue with that.

However, if the exact same tool (or banana) costs $100 in one place and $200 in another, then it warrants asking "hey, is this fair?"

Especially given that it's software, the price difference seems that much more artificial. It's not like disc replication in the UK costs more than in the US (if indeed they are even replicated in different factories).

[Blue Velvet]

It's possible that Adobe operate a full-cost recovery model where Adobe UK has to account for its own operating costs and margins.

There is no doubt that the cost of living, fuel, utilities, salaries, rents is higher over here than the US and perhaps that accounts for the discrepancy.

[coren2000]

For people who want to do the same kind of editing that you can do with Photoshop, but dont want to play photoshop prices (or ANYTHING for that matter). Check out "The Gimp"

http://www.gimp.org/macintosh/

Its free baby free.

[snickelfritz]

Isn't this just an exchange rate issue?

[Queso]

For people who want to do the same kind of editing that you can do with Photoshop, but dont want to play photoshop prices (or ANYTHING for that matter). Check out "The Gimp"

http://www.gimp.org/macintosh/

Its free baby free.
Or even Seashore (http://seashore.sourceforge.net/), based on the same code.

They're not really suitable for pros though sadly. For work, you really need Photoshop.

[AlexisV]

Well, if you're a professional, you pay the price for professional tools. I don't think anyone here had an issue with that.


LOL - I do! Professional does not mean massive corporations necessarily - freelancers have to pay the same amount. Someone mentioned the cost of software in other professions, but not all professional outfits are created equal. Even fewer would have lone freelancers.

Also bare in mind, for a lot of jobs, professional software means Microsoft Office. I don't see that costing £1500.

[Queso]

LOL - I do! Professional does not mean massive corporations necessarily - freelancers have to pay the same amount. Someone mentioned the cost of software in other professions, but not all professional outfits are created equal. Even fewer would have lone freelancers.

Also bare in mind, for a lot of jobs, professional software means Microsoft Office. I don't see that costing £1500.
Neither do most of the CS3 configurations. The Standard Web suite is £600 or thereabouts. Only the Master Suite is over £1500 and that contains twelve professional quality integrated programs.

[notjustjay]

LOL - I do! Professional does not mean massive corporations necessarily - freelancers have to pay the same amount. Someone mentioned the cost of software in other professions, but not all professional outfits are created equal. Even fewer would have lone freelancers.

Also bare in mind, for a lot of jobs, professional software means Microsoft Office. I don't see that costing £1500.

Well, I didn't say that the companies were justified in charging whatever they wanted, just that pro tools cost money and that pros, generally, recognize this.

If I was professional contractor, I don't think I would whine about paying, say, $100 for a pro-grade hammer when Wal-Mart sells cheapie hammers for $3. There are certain tangible things that the higher price buys you, in terms of quality, ergonomics, durability, longevity, etc. However, I would be upset if that same hammer suddenly sold for $500, for no good reason other than "the pros know they will have to pay it".

There are two issues here. There is the issue of relatively high cost of professional grade applications (there seem to be people who claim to be professionals and yet feel they are entitled to professional tools at consumer prices). Then there is the separate issue for charging twice as much in one market for the identical product.

[wal9000]

LOL - I do! Professional does not mean massive corporations necessarily - freelancers have to pay the same amount. Someone mentioned the cost of software in other professions, but not all professional outfits are created equal. Even fewer would have lone freelancers.

Also bare in mind, for a lot of jobs, professional software means Microsoft Office. I don't see that costing £1500.

Yeah, and for corporations 'professional' can mean shelling out a quarter million dollars for a copy of Flame. Makes photoshop seem cheap by comparison.

And on a smaller scale, a little architecture firm still has to pay 5 grand for Revit. If they want to stay up to date they'd have to upgrade at least once a year. Photoshop costs practically nothing compared to what people in other professions have to deal with.

[ATD]

Photoshop costs practically nothing compared to what people in other professions have to deal with.

Even within the graphics profession Photoshop is dirt cheap. 16 years of upgrades for Photoshop costs me about the same as a 1 year service contract for Maya Unlimited. Photoshop is by far the most profitable software I have ever owned.

[LeviG]

Even within the graphics profession Photoshop is dirt cheap. 16 years of upgrades for Photoshop costs me about the same as a 1 year service contract for Maya Unlimited. Photoshop is by far the most profitable software I have ever owned.

oh come on maya is in a completely different league and type of work to photoshop.

[Dagless]

There are always alternatives to Photoshop, have you looked into them? Sure they're not as good, but if PS is out of your price range then you will still be able to produce graphics/whatever you do.

/Never tried them myself. :)

[iMeowbot]

Isn't this just an exchange rate issue?
If that's what it was, the prices in the UK would be much lower.

LOL - I do! Professional does not mean massive corporations necessarily - freelancers have to pay the same amount. Someone mentioned the cost of software in other professions, but not all professional outfits are created equal. Even fewer would have lone freelancers.

Until 1990 or so, the graphics industries were among the most expensive, at least if you wanted to do the kinds of things that the Adobe suite can handle now. This software doesn't only replace paper, but also an array of large, horrendously expensive machines.

There are definitely many more fields with independent contractors who have to pay much more for their software. Engineering and accounting spring to mind immediately, they're far from alone. And of course, people in the service industries have investments in equipment that make these software prices laughably small.

Also bare in mind, for a lot of jobs, professional software means Microsoft Office. I don't see that costing £1500.
Outside the corporate world, there aren't may fields where Office alone would be sufficient.

[gauchogolfer]

I don't use Photoshop where I work (iPhoto is fine for me at home, plus Elements if I need to tweak something), but as an engineer for a large company I have to second the comment about Photoshop being a relatively cheap program.

We have database management software and mathematical simulation equipment that far exceeds anything Adobe offers, in terms of pricing. Graphics people, rejoice!

[ATD]

Until 1990 or so, the graphics industries were among the most expensive, at least if you wanted to do the kinds of things that the Adobe suite can handle now. This software doesn't only replace paper, but also an array of large, horrendously expensive machines.

Before Photoshop I used to hire Paintbox artists to create images. The lowest price I could get for a Paintbox session was $750 per hour, the boxes were about $750,000 from what I remember. Photoshop came along and created a revolution in the graphics industry. I find it sad when people dump on Adobe, a company that almost single handedly transformed the graphics industry into what it is today.

oh come on maya is in a completely different league and type of work to photoshop.

I wasn't trying to infer that Maya was the same as Photoshop. I use Maya as a graphics app side by side with Photoshop to create images all the time. If you mean that it's in completely different league than PS because it's far more expensive, then yes, that's my point.

[AlexisV]

Yeah, and for corporations 'professional' can mean shelling out a quarter million dollars for a copy of Flame. Makes photoshop seem cheap by comparison.

How many corporations consist of one or two people in the company :D People aren't comparing like with like - every profession is different. Surely a freelance designer is no different from a freelance journalist - and they don't use software that's into the thousands. Sure, if you have a large number of employees and are a moderately sized company, it's not too bad. I'm not saying it's grossly overpriced, I just think it's too much for what it is. There isn't a huge deal of difference between PS 6 and CS3 - you just need the latter for Intel machines.


Before Photoshop I used to hire Paintbox artists to create images. The lowest price I could get for a Paintbox session was $750 per hour, the boxes were about $750,000 from what I remember. Photoshop came along and created a revolution in the graphics industry. I find it sad when people dump on Adobe, a company that almost single handedly transformed the graphics industry into what it is today.

I'm not denying Adobe haven't revolutionised things, but they have a monopoly and they know it. No doubt Apple would have liked a universal version of CS2 out when they brought out the Intel Macs, but Adobe stuck to their own thing. Apple had been working on an x86 version of Tiger for a while, so Adobe had plenty of time. Obviously, more profit was in waiting for CS3 - like all businesses, it's about profit, not doing the consumer a favour. If Adobe hadn't created PS or AI, someone else will have done. You don't owe them anything - as many people realised it was best to abandon Quark and move to InDesign.

Outside the corporate world, there aren't may fields where Office alone would be sufficient.
Isn't the vast majority of the service industry 'the corporate world'?

If I was professional contractor, I don't think I would whine about paying, say, $100 for a pro-grade hammer when Wal-Mart sells cheapie hammers for $3. There are certain tangible things that the higher price buys you, in terms of quality, ergonomics, durability, longevity, etc. However, I would be upset if that same hammer suddenly sold for $500, for no good reason other than "the pros know they will have to pay it".

There are two issues here. There is the issue of relatively high cost of professional grade applications (there seem to be people who claim to be professionals and yet feel they are entitled to professional tools at consumer prices). Then there is the separate issue for charging twice as much in one market for the identical product
Sorry to keep quoting things, but I think this is an excellent point. There has to be a point where a tool is too expensive and 'professional use' isn't a good enough justification. And is a single roofer and his apprentice less professional than a bigger firm with teams of roofers working all around the city? And is right to say that hammer is cheap when a huge company down the road pays many times more to use cranes in their roofing business?

[chaosbunny]

Imo, there is one problem with the CS3 suite, and atm I'm debating if I'll just skip CS3. Other than the native Intel Mac support there really is no big feature that makes it much more productive than CS2. I'd love if someone proves me wrong, so if you know any, please tell me!

[iMeowbot]

Isn't the vast majority of the service industry 'the corporate world'?
Apart from financial? Not especially. The service industry includes designers (yeah, that load of bums) and restaurateurs and gardeners and truckers and plumbers and shopkeepers and exterminators and hairdressers and electricians and clowns. Rubber noses and greasepaint don't grow on trees, and they don't come with Office.
Imo, there is one problem with the CS3 suite, and atm I'm debating if I'll just skip CS3. Other than the native Intel Mac support there really is no big feature that makes it much more productive than CS2. I'd love if someone proves me wrong, so if you know any, please tell me!
You pretty much have it right. There really isn't any revolutionary change in this release, just lots of nice little bits and pieces here and there, nothing life-or-death. And, if you're not making the software sweat anyway (many don't), the emulation may not even be that big a deal, making CS2 a perfectly reasonable place to hang out.

[AlexisV]

LOL :D

I bet clowns don't need to upgrade their red noses

[iMeowbot]

I bet clowns don't need to upgrade their red noses
Even clowns aren't safe in the UK. Here are the available upgrade paths I've identified with several seconds of intense research.

in the US ( http://www.gagworks.com): Standard foam nose: $0.59, giant foam nose: $1.99, blinking LED nose: $4.99

in the UK (http://www.sillyjokes.co.uk/wacky/body-parts/noses.html): Standard foam nose: £1.15, giant foam nose: £1.50, blinking nose: not offered!

[savar]

Guy has a market stall - selling Bananas. First guy comes up "Banana please" - "Sure - that's 20p please". Bloke walks away happy.

Next guy comes up, "Banana please" - "Sure - that's 40p please" - "But his was only 20p!!" - "Yeah - you're like, from England...so I have to rip you off"

40p is too high.

Levig's thinking along the right lines...go find the first guy and buy his Banana for 25p - you've still saved 15p.


Doug


It's called price discrimination, and in most countries it is not illegal. In fact, unlike other forms of discrimination, price discrimination isn't usually considered immoral either. In some circumstances it can even be desirable (leads to more efficient outcomes), but in many cases it's just annoying.

The real problem is that governments may step in to legislate artificial support for price discrimination. In the US, for example, it is illegal to reimport US-manufactured drugs that have been exported to other countries, even though the same exact drugs cost 2-10X here what they cost foreigners in other countries. In effect, the US subsidizes pharmaceutical R&D costs for the rest of the world.

There's a similar situation with textbooks in the US. You can get the same textbook from Europe for half price. Even with overseas shipping both ways you still save 20-30%. It's really wacky.

Although I've gotten way off topic, let me come back: I doubt that it's illegal for you to buy Photoshop in another country and import it into your country. Just see if you can buy a copy on eBay from a US seller...you should save quite a bit that way.

[Father Jack]

Other than the native Intel Mac support there really is no big feature that makes it much more productive than CS2. I'd love if someone proves me wrong, so if you know any, please tell me!
I think the new "Quick selection tool" coupled with "Refine edges" alone are worth the upgrade price. :)

FJ

[ATD]

Imo, there is one problem with the CS3 suite, and atm I'm debating if I'll just skip CS3. Other than the native Intel Mac support there really is no big feature that makes it much more productive than CS2. I'd love if someone proves me wrong, so if you know any, please tell me!

I had a lot of crashes and stalls with CS2, for me it was the most unstable version of PS I'd ever used (I have been using it since version 1). I only used it if I had to. CS3 runs very smooth so far, it's becoming one of my favorites.

[nsbio]

It's called price discrimination, and in most countries it is not illegal. In fact, unlike other forms of discrimination, price discrimination isn't usually considered immoral either. In some circumstances it can even be desirable (leads to more efficient outcomes), but in many cases it's just annoying.
.

Many things are way cheaper in the US, including cars, software, etc, and the difference becomes even more dramatic if one normalizes these prices to the compensation in US vs Europe for the same job. That is the way it has been and will be for a while. However, there is a price for everything: Americans have to deal with mediocre food, for example (bad bread (!), unless you want to go out of your way to find better alternatives). ;)

[notjustjay]

Americans have to deal with mediocre food, for example (bad bread (!), unless you want to go out of your way to find better alternatives). ;)

You mean I've been missing out on something, my whole life???