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Moe
Jun 25, 2003, 07:32 AM
Until there's a mobility version of the 970 with power management, might we expect to see:

The G3 12" and 14" iBooks will be discontinued.

The 12" PowerBook will get its aluminum case white powdercoated and be sold, in the current configuration, as the G4 iBook. 867MHz, 256MB memory (many OS X apps call for 256 minimum). No Level 3 cache, like the iMac. Combo drive or SuperDrive option. 40 or 60GB hard drive option.

No 12" PowerBook.

The 15" aluminum PowerBook will be a 1GHz G4 w/DDR333 memory and Level 3 cache, Firewire 800, Airport Extreme and built-in Bluetooth. SuperDrive only. 60 or 80GB hard drive option. No backlit keyboard. Hopefully, it will have the ATI 9600 w/64MB

The 17" will get the ATI 9600 w/128MB (again, hopefully) and 80GB hard drive. MAYBE a little speed bump.

Makes sense to me. Prices are anyone's guess.

rhpenguin
Jun 25, 2003, 08:06 AM
Tell you the truth I dont see the G3 going anywhere for a good long time. Its still a quite capable processor for the people that just do some basic things (like me) and by keeping the G3 you can cut down on cost.

Plus im betting that is gonna be a LONG time before we even see G5 laptops. If they need that much cooling in a desktop at the present time, im willing to bet in a laptop it would melt. Look at how long it took Intel to get the P4 into a laptop. Im sure it will take about the same amount of time to do this for the PPC970.

Thats what im betting on, but yeah sooner or later the G3 will die off but not for atleast another year or so.

MacBoyX
Jun 25, 2003, 08:10 AM
No way not even close.

WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK THE G3 needs to go. It's a better processor than the G4.

The iBook is one of the best sellers for Apple. It's not going to be discontinued.

The 12" PB is still selling well it's not going anywhere.

I stated in another post and I'll say it again...

Expect a 15 AlBook maybe with speed bumps in the G4.

iBooks will eventually move to the G3 with Altivec and probably change chip names to something other than G3.

Stop trying to kill the bread and butter!

iBooks are great Macs...


MacBoyX

cb911
Jun 25, 2003, 08:18 AM
yeah, i doubt that the iBooks will be discontinued.

i also think that the G5 PowerBooks will be one revision away, and that the next rev. will be just a higher clocked G4.

i don't think the problem with getting the 970 into a notebook is the heat - running at 1.2 - 1.4GHz they're supposed to put out the same amount of heat as the current 1GHz G4. it's probably more a matter of re-designing the case and internals. just like the PowerMac G5 is a radically different design from the PowerMac G4, i think the same thing will happen with the G5 PowerBook.

crazzyeddie
Jun 25, 2003, 08:34 AM
Originally posted by MacBoyX
No way not even close.

WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK THE G3 needs to go. It's a better processor than the G4.
...
iBooks will eventually move to the G3 with Altivec and probably change chip names to something other than G3.

MacBoyX

Thank you!!! The G3 is much better than the G4 in RAW SPEED. Its lower power, cooler etc.

I always thought the G4 should have been the G3+, since its the same chip + alitvec.

Wyrm
Jun 25, 2003, 08:58 AM
RE: G5 Cooling
Those G5s are 2Ghz ones at probably 50-70W heat dissipation.

A 1.0-1.1Ghz G5 is around 19W- about 3W less than the 1Ghz G4.

I'm not sure about the support chips - but hopefully power and thermals are in range. We can't see any support chips with honking heat sinks in the Apple photos - but that doesn't mean they aren't near the CPUs or anything.

Technically, I don't think the processor is the problem. Maybe they didn't have the engineering bandwidth?

The most troubling statement was from Greg Joswiak who said about the G5 "...is not going in a PowerBook anytime soon..."

But that begs the question of what IBM is doing with all the low speed binned chips? Probably not every functioning CPU will hit 1.6Ghz (the original estimate was 1.4, 1.6 and 1.8 right?) They are not showing up for the embedded market, nor has IBM brought their 970 blade to market yet. Maybe the blades are coming soon, or new XServes?

If it was a story of simply upgrading the 15" to 12" and 17" spec, this could have been done long ago.

I can't figure this one out. Apple's timing the release of the 12"/17" seems like shooting themselves in the foot if they wanted to sell more 15" inventory.

Facts:
a) 12"/17" launched only a few months after the 15" was updated.

b) The 17" wasn't even ready at launch.

c) The 15" wasn't mentioned in the PowerBook commercials for the 12" and 17" - just the smallest and the biggest laptop.

c) Apple has launched the G5 and said this is the path forward - again not available for a few months.

If the 15" Powerbook is going to have a 970, it will be after August at the earliest.

The only thing I can think of is there is NO 15" in the works. The 17" and the 12" inherit that line... but if this were the case then wouldn't Apple come out and say that? Buy a 15" while you still can, they are the last of a breed. Otherwise there are a lot of people who are waiting... myself included.

I hope Apple is coming out with a new 15" - but my expectations are rising by the day.

-Wyrm

Moe
Jun 25, 2003, 09:56 AM
No one's trying to kill the iBook... the 12" PB is what the iBook should be now. Given that the 970 has the Altivec microcode, it's time to get that into the iBook. Not to mention that from a marketing perspective, it's now two generations behind, not just one. It just doesn't seem prudent to buy a Mac without Altivec any more.

cubist
Jun 25, 2003, 10:36 AM
Speed bumps for the iBook will probably take it over 1GHz fairly soon - the advent of the G5 means that speed limits on lower-end machines are no longer needed. But it will stay with the G3 (IBM Sahara/Gobi).

The PowerBooks will get 7457 G4's later this year and go maybe as high as 1.4GHz. Joswiak says (in another thread) "no G5 in powerbooks for a while".

Other than these minor changes, I doubt we'll see much change in these systems. They're selling well, and they're competitive.

We might not even see a G5 in an iMac anytime soon...

rueyeet
Jun 25, 2003, 11:19 AM
Since I have no more idea than anyone else, I'll put in my thoughts too. :D

I'm guessing that the next thing with the PowerBooks will be to update the 15" Titaniums to 15"-ish Aluminums, with the corresponding improved feature set, but still the G4 chip. That oughta sell quite a few, even without the G5.

Then bring out G5 PowerBooks, with the new and improved system architecture. This will take awhile to do, and I'd expect a revision or two of the Aluminum G4's in the meantime.

Either that, or Apple's waiting until they can make a G5-equipped 15"-ish AlBook, which of course would sell like hotcakes. :cool:

By then, Panther will be the default OS on new Macs, and it's possible that anything without Altivec will be a bit clunky. With the G5 then safely established as the pro-level chip, it would then be possible to throw the G4 into the iBook line, while keeping the consumer-white polycarbonate. But the G3 won't disappear until the G5 becomes thoroughly entrenched and makes it look really old.

There--we'll see how full of it I am in the next couple years. :)

MacBoyX
Jun 25, 2003, 12:52 PM
Originally posted by rueyeet
...
By then, Panther will be the default OS on new Macs, and it's possible that anything without Altivec will be a bit clunky. ...

AltiVec will not be any more prevelant in Panther than it is in Jaguar. Not much about the acutal OS is optimized for AltiVec other than iTunes.

I don't understand why everyone thinks that just because there's a new chip in the sandbox the OS is suddenly going to suck on G3's.

G3's and G4's will continue to ROCK on Panther as they do in Jaguar.

The world does NOT END because there is a new CHIP!

Jaguar runs on BEIGE G3's for goodness sake!

MacBoyX

michaelrjohnson
Jun 25, 2003, 01:18 PM
The 15 inch powerbook just fell off the face of the planet... or at least apple's radar... I doubt they'll eliminate the 15 as it's the perfect size for MOST users. However, this delay is beginning to smell fishy {fish, fish}. Nobody has any information about this "missing" laptop... is joswiak just covering? it doesn't seem like it, but i dunno...

i want a 15 inch G5. really bad.:(

Chomolungma
Jun 25, 2003, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by Wyrm
RE: G5 Cooling

The only thing I can think of is there is NO 15" in the works. The 17" and the 12" inherit that line... but if this were the case then wouldn't Apple come out and say that? Buy a 15" while you still can, they are the last of a breed. Otherwise there are a lot of people who are waiting... myself included.

-Wyrm

I think you made a very interesting observation! Think about it, for the most part there are two type of people that buys laptop. The first group wants mobility (longer battery life, tough and basic apps e.g. Office (me)), while the second group wants a desktop replacement (large screen and performance). The 12" and 17" fulfill this requirment. I have a 15" Rev A, and it is too big, and the battery time/charge blows. It doesn't look or feels tough, thus, I have to be careful handling it. The 12" will suite people like me just fine (a 2nd battery thrown in to the initial price would be sweet).

I think they will come out and say it is EOL, if sale numbers hit a certain threshold.

Chomo

maradong
Jun 25, 2003, 02:22 PM
Originally posted by MacBoyX
No way not even close.

WHY DOES EVERYONE THINK THE G3 needs to go. It's a better processor than the G4.

The iBook is one of the best sellers for Apple. It's not going to be discontinued.

The 12" PB is still selling well it's not going anywhere.

I stated in another post and I'll say it again...

Expect a 15 AlBook maybe with speed bumps in the G4.

iBooks will eventually move to the G3 with Altivec and probably change chip names to something other than G3.

Stop trying to kill the bread and butter!

iBooks are great Macs...


MacBoyX

MO as well.
thought the only negative point in the ibooks is taht you can only mirror your display when working on an external monitor... :(

macphoria
Jun 25, 2003, 02:26 PM
G3 will be here for a while, at least until 1Ghz G3 iBook comes out. And since there has been rumors about advanced version of G3, Gobi or what have you, I'm tempted to say G3 will be around even longer. EXCEPT, Apple is looking to go into 64 bit computing and it will be interesting to see what they will do with 32 bit processor equipped computers.

My guess is they could potentially make their "Professional" line of computers (i.e. Power Mac and PowerBook) 64 bit machines and their "Consumer" line of computers (iMac and iBook) 32 bit machines. That way, G3 and G4 could stick around much longer.

But that would mean Apple will have to make two versions of OS. Other Apple softwares won't be an issue because they can simply say "Final Cut Pro 64 does not work on iMac/iBook" and force people to buy more expensive Professional line of computers.

Having said that, I just realized it now makes more sense that Apple would keep G3 around longer.

A lot of babbling, I hope I made sense.

MacBoyX
Jun 25, 2003, 02:52 PM
Originally posted by maradong
MO as well.
thought the only negative point in the ibooks is taht you can only mirror your display when working on an external monitor... :(

Ok a recap again...

It's not negative...there needs to be differences in the products at Apple, we can not have a G5 (i used to say G4) in every single product all at max clock speed with every feature...that would not work.

Apple disables monitor spanning on the iBook so that you will buy a PowerBook if you really need it. There's no good complaining about it...

You dont see BMW making every car with a V12 and all the features of the 7-Series.

It's the nature of a product line.

MacBoyX

Mr. MacPhisto
Jun 25, 2003, 03:06 PM
I believe the iBook is presently the top Mac seller (before the G5 was announced), but I could be wrong. I expect to see the PBs adopt the 7457 and get up to 1.3GHZ with fully functional DDR400 - Moto is shipping this quarter (Q3). Gobi will go in the iBook, allowing DDR and 1024KB of L2 with speeds of 1.4 GHz. My bet is the iBooks will break 1GHz. With the lower cost of the 7457 (I believe it is supposed to cost 30% the price of the 7455) and the already low price of the 750FX, Apple PBs, G4 PowerMacs (which Apple has said it will continue for a while), and consumer end Macs should lower in price - with any luck. A 1.25GHz G3 iBook would be nice with a 167MHz FSB and DDR333. The PB would be 1.3 GHz with Altivec G4, 200MHz bus, DDR400, and 1-2MB of L3 cache.

cb911
Jun 25, 2003, 05:29 PM
there is no way Apple would EOL the 15"PB!! it's the perfect size notebook!

and if they did that, there would have to be a massive price drop on the 17" models, and they'd have to add a low end 17". that's just crazy talk.

Moe
Jun 25, 2003, 06:43 PM
Originally posted by Mr. MacPhisto
I expect to see the PBs adopt the 7457 and get up to 1.3GHZ with fully functional DDR400

From what I understand, the 7457 has a 200MHz FSB, which while it could USE DDR400, wouldn't take advantage of the DDR. Just like the 133MHz bus on the 12" PB and 17" iMac with DDR266, and the 166MHz bus on the 17" PB with DDR333. So while it would have a faster bus due to clock speed, I'm not sure I'd say fully functional.

MattG
Jun 25, 2003, 07:09 PM
Isn't this a pretty good indiction that they're not dropping the 15" model?

http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/39/31191.html